I'd like to take a break from the catch-up to talk about something that's currently going on.
Synopsis: Japan's Defense Minister Fumio Kyuma is being forced to resign, after commenting that the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki "couldn't be helped." The comment came from a speech in which Kyuma said, "A countless number of people were victimized (by the bombs). But it helped end the war. I think it couldn't be helped." This caused an uproar, especially among bomb survivors/relatives of those affected, and politicians. With pressure rapidly mounting against him, Kyuma had no choice but to resign.
August is generally not a good time to be American in Japan. The Japanese commemorate the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If you are American, Japanese people around you may ask you what you think about the bombings. Brace yourself for a look of awkward displeasure from your Japanese friend if you say anything other than, "I think it was terrible, truly awful, and the Japanese are so pitiable to be the only country on Earth ever subjected to a nuclear attack."
The "was it justified?" debate has been done to death and back. There are all sorts of factors that come into play. A defeated nation, perhaps willing to fight to down to the last man, woman and child. The US wanting to flex her muscle in a show of strength to Russia. A decisive end to a long and bitter conflict. The simple truth is, the true reasons why the bombs were dropped, and what might have happened if they weren't, are long since buried in the past.
I also took courses on Japanese culture and history to go along with the language classes in university. These courses allowed me to look at the war and the bombings from a Japanese perspective. While I was in America, I was never quite sure what to think about Hiroshima. Was the A-bomb really, honestly necessary? Might Japan have surrendered? However, after four years of living in the country, and seeing the war/bombings from a truly Japanese point of view, my stance now is--yes. The bombing, while terrible, did ultimately end the war early and possibly save lives.*
*This is my opinion, and it's not really subject for debate. If you want to debate about it, might I recommend some other Japan-related venue. The Outpost Nine Forums already have a thread or two about this subject.
I arrived at my conclusion looking at events like The Battle of Okinawa where, despite being in a losing situation, the Japanese fought down to the last man, and civilians participated in mass-suicide to avoid the "monster" American soldiers. The firebombing of Tokyo was actually more devastating than the nuclear attacks. And I also take into consideration Japanese attitudes towards the war, both then and now.
The war is largely regarded in Japan as--"there was a war in the Pacific, and then we got A-bombed." That's it. Japan's involvement with Hitler and the Axis Powers is rarely ever mentioned. Their imperialistic marches into China and Korea are given a footnote at best in historical textbooks. And Pearl Harbor is also little more than a fleeting thought. If you talk about WWII in Japan, the conversation goes straight to the A-bomb and how pitiable Japan is.
I don't mean to play down the bombings, not at all. They were horrible, tragic losses of human life. Even if one wanted to say "the ends justify the means," these means were indeed truly horrendous. We should hope that such an event is never repeated in human history ever again.
But that sentiment doesn't just go for the bombings. It goes for all of the terrible things that happened in that war. Of which, the Japanese participated in quite a few.
However, when it comes to any of Japan's faults during the war, their tune suddenly changes. The Rape of Nanking "wasn't that bad," or "you can't prove all that stuff actually happened." Other horrible atrocities committed in China and Korea are also flat-out ignored. Some politicians would have you believe that the Japanese were over there "helping" their Asian neighbors. Japan forced thousands of women into sex-slavery during the war; some of these survivors and their descendants have been trying unsuccessfully to get recognition/compensation from the Japanese government about this. The government's response? "You can't really prove that the government sanctioned this," (despite there being proof otherwise), or "You girls weren't slaves, there was no coercion." Some will even go as far as to say that America forced Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor.
Textbooks are altered to completely gloss over these things. Recently, the government moved to strike any reference to the Japanese military forcing civilians to commit suicide in the Battle of Okinawa. Of course, anything else--the comfort women, the atrocities in China and Korea, are nowhere to be found. These things don't seem to matter that much. If you're Japanese, all that matters about WWII is how poor Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed.
It's annoying to me, and I'm only American. The worst Japan did to America was bomb Pearl Harbor. I can't imagine how angry this must make the Chinese/Koreans. It's like having the bully next door come into your yard and literally beat the shit out of you, but then when a bigger kid pushes the bully down and breaks his nose, suddenly all the bully can do is cry foul about the broken nose.
Again, I don't mean to belittle the A-bombs. But I just don't feel that it's fair of Japan to constantly cry about the bombs and then turn around and blow-off or ignore all the bad shit that they did. Even with conservative estimates the damage done in Nanking was far worse than either of the A-bombs. And those people died much more horribly than anything a nuclear blast could have done to them. And Nanking is only a solitary example. All I want Japan to do is take responsibility for her actions. Admit her wrongdoings instead of trying to deny them. And then, they can complain about the A-bombings all they want. Or, if they want to continue with the "why dig up the past?" angle, then shut up about the A-bombs. It doesn't work both ways. I feel that to constantly bemoan the A-bombs, yet fail to acknowledge why and how things got to that point, is of a much greater disservice to the victims than anything former Defense Minister Kyuma might have had to say. I feel that Kyuma getting canned just goes to show how stubborn and unwilling Japan is to admit any sort of fault in the war. Not only that, but failing to admit to the mistakes of the past, only leads the way to make the same mistakes in the future.
And that's my two cents. I've sort of purposely avoided writing about this kind of thing over the past three years, but with the current stories in the news I couldn't help myself this time around. This kind of thing has mildly bugged me during my time in Japan though. I'm not sure if the Japanese attitudes and ignorance towards WWII can be properly conveyed through a text medium. Like much else about the country, it's one of those things you just have to see for yourself.
Good editorial. I basically agree with everything you said.
Fuckin A, man. My Grandfather was one of the POWs on the Philippines that the Japanese government was planning on murdering to cover up their abuse of prisoners. See if anybody mentions that one over there.
seconded
I stand that the bombings were maybe not so justified when they happened, but that time has come to vindicate them, because looking back, it's very natural to thank various higher powers that they were bombed.
As for the events they deny? Well, that's easy! Deny the bombings to their face and see how they react; then drive home that you denying something doesn't mean it never happened and start pointing out atrocities the Japanese refuse to acknowledge as their own.
It's so much easier to play the victim than to take responsibility for one's actions. Rather, for a government's actions. Apparently, the current government of Japan is unwilling or unable to admit to the WW2-era government's culpability. Unfortunately, I can see at least one facet of the reason: If they admit culpability, they legalize all the lawsuits against them that have been brought by the countless victims of Japanese aggression over the years. It'd be a nightmare for them--not that I think they deserve to get out of jail free.
But, it's the choice between what's easy and what's right, again. I would like to think that it's the same choice for everyone--individuals and governments alike--but that's too much idealism for one day.
It's comments like those in the Mainichi article that make me seriously reconsider what I want to do in the future.
One of the things that caught my attention was the idea that the US would not have dropped the bombs on a white nation. (See last link)
The fact is, the US's first atomic target was Berlin. Unfortuneately, (or fortuneately) Germany surrendered before the bombs were ready so that just left Japan as the only power left in the Axis.
This is not to debate the issue but more over to give a fact to support the post.
Everyone writes history for itself, so just swallow and turn the page :)
I think the worst thing is that Abe and the past PM's have continued to visit memorials commemorating the fallen soldiers of WWII, including those that participated in the Rape of Nanjing and other atrocities. Refusing to acknowledge or apologize for their actions is one thing. Honoring the war criminals is another level of arrogance entirely.
And to think some people wonder why China and Japan don't get along.
Being Canadian, I don't feel a patriotic responsibility to defend or support the A-bombing of Japan, but I agree that Japan would likely have gone on fighting until literally the last man.
Good text.But honestly, though it may get different ratings on the "holier than thou"-Rating or short, HTTR, you can observe the same routines of playing down the own errors while pointing out those of others.
And while i agree that those deeds against the Chinese and the Koreans aren't to be taken lightly, they themselves have enough dirt on their own sticks. In the end they just can't overcome their urge to come back at one another for anything that happened, be it in one form or another. Although, that's a problem we have all around the world. Guess that's mankind for you.
I've thought about this before myself. In my history class we did a whole unit about the justification of the bombs and if they could have really been avoided. You bring up some really strong points and I would have to agree with you on most everything you said. The Japanese would have fought down to the last man if the Americans just tried to invaid them on land, also it isn't right that the Japanese write off their actions as "not that bad" in comparison to the bomb or flat out deny them. The Defence Minister shouldn't have been pressure to resign because of what he said.
Yeah, I've heard about the denial of Pearl harbor, but then why do so many of them visit the site in Hawaii? When I went, they were almost more Asians than Americans.
Usually when I come in to read the blog, there are usually a thousand comments. So far I don't see one...or it could be there is a new system. Anyway, I've been hearing about Japan's denial about all these things for a long time. In the past few years I've dated a girl who is from China, she has told me much about what went on. It's very scary how the Japanese basically created the same situation for the Chinese and Koreans as the Germans did for the Jews.
Amen, Az. You said it all.
My birthday is August 6, and in three years never got a "Happy Birthday."
Whenever someone found out, it was "hey, that's when Hiroshima was bombed!"
"Yes, I know." [*internally* I've known since I was at least 12, thank you for reminding me. Like that was the only August 6 in all of human history and worse shit hasn't happened on other days of the year. Why the hell are you looking at me like I did it, my parents weren't even born then!?!]
Yomiuri Shimbun had a surprisingly decent editorial on the matter:
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/editorial/20070704TDY04005.htm
They called Kyuma's remarks "tactless, but factual."
btw, is this the first post? ;)
first nice lol, too political ;)
I'm German so I do admit that Germany did enough stuff to deserve a nuke or five. Its a strange fact the uranium for the bombs on Japan came from a German submarine that surrendered while it was supposed to have delivered it to Japan so they could continue fighting. But I think if we where nuked a lot of tragic things could have been prevented so it probably was helping more than it hurt, although a little common sense and some good old pacifism would have done much better...
Ah yes. This reminds me of that picture in your photobucket (and the one you showed in Outpost 9). The caption thing at museum of how it summarizes what happened in WWII, how the US abused the "economically-poor Japan".
Lemme find it...ah, here it is...
http://photobucket.com/albums/y105/LordAzrael/Az/slanted.jpg
Yeah I heard it on the news yesterday.
Well hmm - just thought if people might want to know - during the second world war America forced nearly all of it`s Japanese immigrants population into concentration work camps out of fear the japanese are or would become traitors - women and children alike. This was based on a very basic prejudice - because asian people are so specific in the way they look they could never be integrated into the american society to a point they can be trusted.
I`ve little evidence to believe this fact is well-known and distributed in schools and textbooks in America. Mainly because it shows a behaviour based on fear and racial prejudice. And you don`t want your students to form their oppinion on the country on facts leveling your wartime government with that of natzi Germany. In the end did you not adopt the same tactics as the Hitler regime - mass bombardment of civilian targets in an attempt to further increase the human loss tragedy of the Japanese people to a point when wageing war is not anymore realistic?
I`m sory but it`s obvious to the blind that no country would voluntarily hurt itself by makeing it`s war crimes freely available to it`s youth. Not Japan not America not even Germany. You know trend is nowadays nobody would even duiscuss the massive killing of jews on german soil. This is meant to protect the current generation of german people from being offended about something they did not take part in. In an earlyer editorial you said something in the lines of haveing felt awkward because you had to be witness to a discussion on Iraq.
Now think about who will suffer the greatest if what you demanded was to happen - in your perfect world everybody will have his "dead toddler" or "gassed baby" or "raped korean girl" 'comeback' joke. In my opinion that was your saddest joke ever. And because you live with it you wish it to everyone else? In my perfect world information would be free for everybody that`s interested in knowing. And to those who do not care to be informed I`d offer a simulated life of ignorance along with my sincere indifference. Think of it as an equasion and it tends to work out towards the ballance between a well-informed but in the same manner stable society.
Then again you can always grab a megaphone and hit Tokyo streets once more. If so be sure to post it here ;)
Oh boy Az, you probably just opened up a big can of worms. But I think these things should be discussed even though it's such a sensitive topic. So kudos for you for putting it out there.
"All I want Japan to do is take responsibility for its actions. Admit its wrongdoings, instead of trying to deny them."
Sorry, bud. That's never going to happen.
"I feel that Kyuma getting canned just goes to show how stubborn and unwilling Japan is to admit any sort of fault in the war. Not only that, but failing to admit to the mistakes of the past, only leads the way to make the same mistakes in the future."
I`m sorry but that`s as old as my poor old granmamma and she`s 94. America has "said" owned up to it`s crimes and what now? Nobody realy wages wars anymore - it`s just that times don`t allow for majour senceless bloodshed conflicts cuz it`s by no means profitable to be a stupid fanatic fuck anymore.
On the other hand what`s profitable now? Oil wars influencial wars in the manner of subjecting a country to whatever you say is right and then tapping into whatever currency worth reserves there are left.
Do you know why Japan isn`t doing that? I dunno but I can tell you why America is. The United States have went through "owning up" on so many occasions (Vietnam Cambodia ... gilf war Afghanistan... whatever shit you sparked up) that for it`s people it`s well and truly no-big-deal to continue with rapeing nations as it has always been. Then spend a few billion dollars "owning up" to it in the matter of said "funding" sustained developement - all pure shit as it is a fraction worth of the monie you`ve earned through profitable (have it read ludicrous) contracts with the defeated country. Just look at yourself and tell me you`ve not been turned indifferent to your country`s acts of international terrorism - I`m sorry to use that same example again but you said it - "dead toddler is the ultimate comeback" and oh the irony in how many ways you were right.
And you have the nerve to point at yourself as an honorable example. I only envy your idealism for I`m sure you as a person have had no harm in mind when trying to put this topic up. In reality things tend to work out a little bit more complex than that - especialy when it comes to catchy morals.
(Az's Note: Dude, NOBODY understands America's terrible foreign policies better than Americans living overseas. In America, you can sort of blow it off as "something that's happening over there", but overseas you get to see first-hand just how much of the world's good will America is squandering.
Yeah, America may harp about 9/11, but I also think that a great majority of Americans find Iraq to be thoroughly disfavorable. Even in our own government, the Democrats have been riding Bush for years, and now even Republicans are turning against him.
If America was going to play the situation like Japan, all we'd ever say is "OMG 9/11 3,000 people dead!" When it comes to Iraq, we'd basically deny that there's a mess over there at all, and fire any politican that might suggest otherwise.
Yeah, America's got its problems too, no one's denying that. But this particular topic is about Japan and their flat-out refusal to acknowledge horrible things they did. Trying to shift the topic to America doesn't change that fact.)
Let's be honest. No country ever comes and says, "Yes, we did it and we were wrong". It is true about individuals, it is true about communities and it is certainly true about countries. It is a known fact that the CIA under Hoover pushed illegal drugs into the African American communities to derail the civil rights movement, and the repercussions of this are being felt in our community to this day. Has the government ever said "I am sorry" to that community for that? No. Has the Government ever said sorry to the man who was taken from Canada to a prison in the middle east, and after being tortured for 2 years, it was found out that the guy was born in Canada, and had no links to the middle east? No. Has the Government ever said sorry to the Japanese citizens who were held in detention centres (concentration camps?) during World War II even though many of them were second and third generation Americans? I don't think so. I an sure if we thought hard enough, we could find many examples of countries not owning up to the wrongs they did in the past.
I am not in any way condoning this behaviour. I believe it is reprehensible, and owning up to past misdeeds helps in a healing process for both sides. Just don't think it is a japanese thing. All of us as individuals and more than a few countries have issues with this. Just my 2 cents worth.
I think it is the same in any country. Every country views all the wars it has fought as a necessity and the fault is always found on the other country. US has fought in many wars in which it's participation is kinda suspicious or downright self-serving. I'm from Finland and the viewpoints of our parcitipation in WW2 are as varied as any. We say were were just defending, Soviets said we were helping the nazis. We say there were two separate wars between our countries during WW2, Soviets said that they were both the same war. I talked in the internet with few European people, and they all had different views about what Finland did and didn't do during WW2.
I believe that past shouldn't be denied, because it is by learning that mistakes can be avoided, not denial. With what i've learned about the Japanese, i don't really find their stance about WW2 really suprising or anything, but i understand that it must be pretty annoying having people deny their own sins.
Is it possible that the Japanese people are so obsessed with their own misery (and you said that again and again in your posts here), that they won't acknowledge that there are others equally or even worse afflicted, not mentioning that it'was their fault.
Perhaps it would be crushing to their way of life - how can you be greatest and unbeatable at taking the greatest shit on you and take pride in it, when your neighbours are covered in your own shit...
I know other Americans that live in Japan and they hold the same opinion that you do. I'm happy you made a post about this issue.
I see that all the countries try to deny all the wrong things that they done in the past. This is not a exclusivit of Japan or Germany. The USA too denny the wrong things it does. See the case of the Iranian Airbus that a american warship shotdown in persian gulf. Washington dont admit fault in this case, "it was war". So why Japan have to admit their faults? My country (Brazil) fought in the allies side in WW2, but what the allies has done to Germany and Japan population was a shame, IMHO.
Very interesting to hear this from someone who's right there, in the centre of things. I had read about Kyuma's statements and it made me surprised to discover he was being forced to retire.
I come here mostly for some light relief, but I for one find occasional posts of this kind edifying and interesting to read. Here's to more - though infrequently.
Sounds reasonable to me, Az. When you went to Tokyo, did you visit Yasukuni? It's such a piddling little place, but has caused such controversy. The museum in there says the Americans forced Japan into war and it was the only choice Japan had.
Incidentally, this is one of the reasons I leave Japan in August. Not being here makes it easy to not have to talk about it. Unfortunately, one of them is coming with me this time.
Amen.
"Some will even go as far as to say that America forced Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor." ~ Do you have a link to this topic? I'm really interested in the reasoning behind it.
Hey, long time reader, was interested to read your take on the controversy surrounding the bomb. I wouldn't normally reply, but I think I read a book recently you might be interested, even fascinated by (or perhaps not at all surprised). It's a Pulitzer prize winner by John Dower called "Embracing Defeat."
Covers, for the most part, the very end of the Pacific War and the following occupation, needless to say the views of the bombings and the war at large have changed quite a bit since 1945-46. Apart from that, it's an interesting read particularly with regards to the MacArthur/Hirohito relationship.
(URL goes to Amazon.com)
I know how you feel. I had the exact same thoughts when I was in Japan for a couple of years. I was there during the war in Iraq and at least once a week some Japanese person would get from Bush to WWII some way. I recall being blamed for WWII once in fact (I'm 23 by the way...my grandmother was barely born when World War 2 ended).
Not to say that I condone the atomic bombs. Visiting Hiroshima was an interesting experience. Interestingly enough, it is probably the only memorial I've been to that didn't really point a finger at America. Go figure.
Anyway, this is long. I know how you feel. I've been there. I'm half Chinese and one of my relatives was fortunate enough to escape some Japanese soldier back then. In other words, I'm lucky to even be born, so I did get a bit irritated when I'd talk to some people that downplayed what Japan did to the rest of eastern Asia back then. Too bad really.
Wow, Az. I really didn't know much about all these things. I mean, of course I knew about Hiroshima but all those other stories I had never heard a word of them... I appreciate that you gave wiki links to everything. That makes things much easier. Well, thanks helping me learn some world history. You've definately made a difference for me with this one. I'm going to go read all the links in the wiki pages now.
Nice one
I share the same opinion, and gave up on trying to debate with any japanese.
They're as usual completely closed to any discussion, and even stating the obvious (as that minister did) is just purely shocking them.
I'm not German too, but I'm pretty sure the bombings there too in terms of kilotons were close if not worse than Hiroshima (bombings in Dresden were if my memory is not that bad). I have no empathy for the Nazi, but we're talking about civilian loss.
That, and the attitude towards all the war crimes (the fact that Emperor Showa lived without anything to worry after the war too) I can understand why their Asian neighbors are so damn pissed.
Hey Az,
I'm ethnically Chinese, and I cannot say how much I agreed with you there. all my grandparents witnessed Japanese atrocities on Chinese soil, in fact my maternal grandmother fled Nanjing only hours before the massacre.
As for those who argue "No country is going to admit its wrongdoings, its just common sense", I know you people think you have grasps the nuances of politics or what ever, but let me give you this - what about Germany? Perhaps its just the menacingly stubborn nature of consecutive Japanese administrations.
As a European I tend to find it fairly irritating the way everyone in the Far East seems to refer only to the "Pacific War" and completely ignores the European theatre: a hundred times more devastating and rather more important from a worldwide perspective. Perhaps the Japanese don't want to be reminded of the foolishness of joining the war on a side that guaranteed destruction, since the Germans would certainly have obliterated Japan had they defeated the rest of us in Europe, but I think more likely they're overlooking the example of postwar Germany. By accepting full responsibility for Shoah and continent-wide devastation Germany has been able to reconcile almost fully with its neighbours in a way that it seems Japan never will. And to be honest any claim of racial motivation for atom bombing is absurd: all of the major powers on both sides were developing nuclear weapons and as has been pointed out, were it not for a lucky torpedo strike on a delivery of uranium from Germany it could well have been Japan dropping the bomb on the United States.
Yeah I read that article (using the magical powers of the News Channel on my Wii :D) and I felt the same way you do in this editorial. It annoys the hell out of me when countries try to ignore things they've done in the past to make themselves look all good and wonderful. I have some respect for Kyuma (even though I've never seen him and only recently even heard of him). It takes guts to say that in Japan.
eh, every country does it in a way. America is no different, its just prolly not as extreme as that. or even more extreme than that not sure. but its not something unusual.
I agree....and yet I also have reservations. As I mentioned in your last post, I've been studying Chinese, and so I've gotten a little taste of the outrage just across the Sea of Japan (or East Sea or whatever; my, but there is nothing over which the Koreans/Chinese/Japanese won't fight!) over the visits to Yasukuni Shrine and the Comfort Women.
The Japanese are in the wrong for denying history, and for how they've treated World War II. There's no doubt in my mind about that. They should fully own up to the matter, as the Germans have, rather than involving themselves in an endless round of reserved/half-assed apologies undermined by Yasukuni visits and suggestions that Japan was only trying to save Asia from Western Imperialism when they...y'know, killed half of the population of Asia.
On the other hand, there's a part of me that seriously wonders if the Chinese/Koreans will ever truly accept a Japanese apology and let bygones be bygones. The Chinese government, I'm certain, LOVES how wishy-washy the Japanese have been on the subject; anger over Japan lets them keep the eyes of the Chinese population firmly fixed away from their abuses of their own leadership and instead focused on the abuses a foreign country commited over half a century ago. As such, no matter what Japan says or does, I have a feeling the Chinese government will never be truly happy; the apology will never be sincere enough, the gesture never good enough. It simply isn't profitable to let the simmering outrage die down.
As for Korea, how would they be able to fuel their nationalism without hating Japan and the United States? For them, it almost seems like a 1984ish 'five minutes hate'; they can affirm their Koreanness by perpetual anger over every subject from Dokdo/Takeshima down to the comfort women. If Japan were ever to truly and sincerely apologize, stopping the Yasukuni visits and paying reparations to former comfort women, Koreans would be bewildered...and would probably find another reason to really, really dislike Japan the next day.
Japan is primarily at fault here, I agree. But the issue is now one that simply feeds into larger trends of Asian nationalism. Japan's stance pours fuel on the fire...but the fire would keep on roaring, fuel or no, because it's not in the interests of the offended parties to see it die.
"I`ve little evidence to believe this fact is well-known and distributed in schools and textbooks in America. Mainly because it shows a behaviour based on fear and racial prejudice."
I used to work as a history teacher in an American public school. Sorry to say, but you're dead wrong; the internment of those of Japanese ancestry is covered, though understandably not in enormous depth since they also need to cover the rest of the war.
German schoolchildren are required to visit Dachau. I assure you, they know full well about the Holocaust, about Auschwitz; their knowledge of the war is not confined to, 'there was a war, and then the Allies bombed Dresden and killed a bunch of innocent Germans in cold blood.' This reflects well on Germany, and may be part of the reason why Germany is no longer feared and hated by it's neighbors...something Japan, alas, can't claim.
Japanese children should know full well their country's history, good and bad. That they don't, and become worked up over Hiroshima while casually dismissing Nanjing, is an obscenity.
On how you describe it, Japanese are just big whiny hypocrites when it comes to accepting blame. They saw it tough? What about other countries which were mostly to totally defenceless and those not involved in the war at all?
Malta at the time was under reign of the British Empire so the island served as a naval base... Which also caused the largest bombing against an allied nation, the destruction of two-thirds of the island (including important heritage sites we value oh so much), the loss of over 60% of the population and what did we have to counterattack? Two airplane fighters and an assortment of 500-year old forts.
I'm not condemning all Japanese people for this behaviour since I know some who admitted their actions back then were less-than-desirable. However, I stand by the belief they are being unfair and hypocritical.
"My country (Brazil) fought in the allies side in WW2, but what the allies has done to Germany and Japan population was a shame, IMHO."
What, turning their countries around into great economical and world powers?
"I`ve little evidence to believe this fact is well-known and distributed in schools and textbooks in America. Mainly because it shows a behaviour based on fear and racial prejudice."
Well you're just plain wrong. We had plenty of discussion of this in my classes, and it was agreed that it was bullshit and should have never happened. We also read about Mai Lai.
I think the Japanese should have to read about Unit 731.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
There's just no way you can defend that shit.
I'd also like to add that if the United States entered a land war against Japan, it would have been with the Soviet Union, and the USSR would have taken land. It would have been the exact same situation that there was in Korea (still is actually) and Germany. I think Japan should be glad that they didn't end up with a North and South Japan. Not to mention the massive loss of life that would result from a land invasion. There was a PS2 game that played on this idea, by Konami actually. I think it was called Ring of Red.
One last thing. Not all Japanese are in complete denial about WW2. Some deny, some realize the truth, and most probably don't really care that much. The creator of Capcom's 194X series of shooters came under a little flack for creating a game where you flew American planes and fought the Japanese. The design was no mistake. I don't think he has ever come out and said it, but he knows what's up, and so do others. I imagine some don't mention it because they don't want to be ostracized like the defense minister.
"I see that all the countries try to deny all the wrong things that they done in the past. This is not a exclusivit of Japan or Germany. The USA too denny the wrong things it does. See the case of the Iranian Airbus that a american warship shotdown in persian gulf. Washington dont admit fault in this case, "it was war". So why Japan have to admit their faults? My country (Brazil) fought in the allies side in WW2, but what the allies has done to Germany and Japan population was a shame, IMHO."
The Trail of Tears, where thousands of Cherokee were forced of their lands to make way for settlement. Manifest Destiny was one of the biggest crocks of shit cooked up as an excuse to do what they did to the native Americans. And oh, the Cherokee were also given blankets which had been used previously by small pox victims. Nice, huh? THAT'S something you might not hear too often.
No, I'm not Cherokee by blood. I'm just pointing out one of many instances where good old self-interest and greed were held in higher esteem than common sense and decency.
I've given up trying to make sense of the world. It defies it. I think that the good is getting bred out of our species. It's still there, just harder to find. but, this is just my opinion, not necessarily fact ;) .
I'll forego mentioning this latest Dunce Ex Machina by the Japanese government and society as a whole. The last time I made a comment about this it got edited. Az, you know I'm not Politically Correct and never will be. I prefer to be straight and blunt..... kind of like a big ol' stick :D. I DO however, respect your judgment (You haven't made any bad choices yet to my knowledge, other than going to Japan in the first place xD and I'm NOT going any further into that. It's too much like saying 'I told you so!' to a guy who's BEEN there lol), and your opinions.... as I do the opinions of others.... even as I might diagree with them.
I hope you can get past this August with your skin intact :)
Well said, Az...
We know all governments censor history to some extent. Not admitting something is one thing. But denying that the atrocities were committed and then trying to play the victim (after you just tried to forcably take over half the world) is just sickening.
Germany has done their part, it's time for Japan.
"The Trail of Tears, where thousands of Cherokee were forced of their lands to make way for settlement. Manifest Destiny was one of the biggest crocks of shit cooked up as an excuse to do what they did to the native Americans. And oh, the Cherokee were also given blankets which had been used previously by small pox victims. Nice, huh? THAT'S something you might not hear too often."
Actually, we read about it in history class. The United States generally airs it's dirty laundry. Some countries do not.
You're 100% right as usual. Double standards are stupid and ridiculous, and should be wiped from the world.
My ex-wife is from Nanjing. Her history classes and upbringing all taught her that Japanese people are the biggest monsters the world has ever seen. She even believes Japanese routinely kidnap and cannibalize babies as a delicacy. Her school textbooks show graphic pictures of Japanese soldiers playfully extracting fetuses from slaughtered pregnant mothers with their katanas. This says a heck of a lot about both sides of that atrocity. It says the Japanese were horrible, and need to own up. It also says that the Chinese are deliberately fostering hatred in the modern age too. The world is a twisted place sometimes.
Glad to be Canadian!
In my short 6 weeks in Japan (June-July '05), every single adult I talked to asked me, "Have you been to Hiroshima? Are you going to visit Hiroshima? Why not visit scenic Hiroshima this time of year?" They just wanted to guilt trip me and show me the plaque at the memorial showing all the countries a-bombed in wartime (Japan) and all the countries who have used the a-bomb in wartime (US).
I'm Jewish and Japan was allied with the Nazis, so I found that morbidly ironic (despite a few Japanese helping the Jews, in one case saving 5000 over 2 years... also, to be fair, Jews have helped Japan before and after WWII). The only thing that was as bad as that was being the only American for miles when a high school history class showed a video about American history from 1966 to 1976.
More than anything, the Japanese attitude scares me because of what this could create for the future. Such collective cognitive dissonance is not without dire consequences.
America does do a decent job of educating her students. I mean, I know the Indians were forced from their lands, I know about Japanese internment camps, etc, that stuff was covered in JHS/HS.
It may not cover the minutia, but we're not talking about minutia here. This isn't merely a case of a country not wanting to air its dirty laundry. We're talking about atrocities committed on a very large scale, that a country flat-out refuses to acknowledge, while at the same time constantly whining about the one bad thing done to them. You can't compare it to America.
The only way you could is, imagine if the American government changed its stance one day to say "Well, you know those Africans were really quite poor, and when they came to America, they got a nice place to live and work, and were fed too. I don't think slavery was that bad. Besides, you can't prove that the American government supported it." And then also said "You know, England was really cruel to send the pilgrims all the way out to a strange and foreign land, with scant provisions, and then expect them to follow the Queen's rules and tax the hell out of them. That was really, really, wrong, and we should all hope that this kind of thing never happens in the future. America is really pitiable."
Then it might be comparable.
Maybe the people talking about how none of these horrible things show up in Japan's history textbooks should actually take a look at the books. The colonization of Korea is in there, the Manchurian Incident is in there, Nanjing is in there, Pearl Harbor is in there.
Could it be covered in more detail? Hell yes. If you've seen a Japanese textbook for *any* subject you'll know that the aim is to hit all the key points that will show up on the tests and move on quick quick to the next part. There is no in-depth exploration of Nanjing than there is in-depth exploration of communication in living English in your New Horizon book. But "Japanese troops killed a bunch of civilians in Nanjing" is sure in there, just as the past tense is in your English reader.
Don't regurgitate bullshit. Read the books and then post.