Japanese sentences/word question thread.

[deepbluevibes]

I think this thread should be the thread for all future questions about if a word is correct to use in a certain situation, if it's even correct period, about sentences, sentence structure, and all questions in general about the japanese language (spoken or written/typed).

and i'll start it off with a question here;

i realized that people might ask me on my visit to Tokyo how long i'm going to be there.

I wanted to check and see how off I was from what would sound "correct" to a person around my age (16-21 years old), i.e. what would sound informal, and not broken.

douyatte motto wa touchi ni anata da ka?
(how long will you be here?) (i don't know the word for "will"...)

douyatte motto wa Nihon ni anata da ka?
(how long will you be in japan?)

thanks again guys :D

[Pierrot le Fou]

Errrr, that is totally off to the point of being incomprehensible...

どのぐらい日本にいますか？
dono gurai nihon ni imasu ka?
dono gurai = how long
nihon ni = in Japan
imasu ka = will you be?

There is no word for 'will' in Japanese because there's no future tense. Using the present tense can apply to now or the future equally without changing the grammar. So you'll be asked about how long you're in Japan for.

[Faumdano]

When reading I often come across expressions like say, あなたの事を思う or, 道の事を考える。

How do you describe in english what "noun no koto" / "noun phrase no koto" means exactly? I get the impression it means something like the essence or experience of (noun) but how does one express this in any natural way in english? Especially things like my second example.

[Pierrot le Fou]

あなたの事が大好き "I love everything about you."
経済の事を変わろう "let's change the field of economics."

Or something like that.

It's not just the essence, it's the entirety more or less. Everything about the subject in question. The existence and charactersitcs of. It cannot be directly translated. Closest would be "The empirical facts of you" though that doesn't entirely encompass it.

[EIJI]

Yes, exactly right. Japanese doesn’t have future tense, but there is a useful word.
“tsumori” – with the intention of the doing.

“How long will you be in Japan?”
“Dono kurai nihon ni iru TSUMORI desu ka?”

[Henjin]

Errrr, that is totally off to the point of being incomprehensible...

Glad you agree. That weirded me out, dude. It looks like he tried a literal translation.

That was one of the questions I was asked often when I was over there. I think most of the time it was in the 「どのぐらい」 or 「いつまで」 form.

And yeah, 「こと」 is used so much. An example I saw on a TV show: IIRC, the guy says 「好きです」 and the girl he's talking to asks 「なんなん子のことは？」 to which he replies yes, because it was that girl he was talking about.

[deepbluevibes]

Well, I don't know about incomprehensible... i had the nihon ni part down at least. =P

also, i'm assuming that by this point it's ok to just omit "you" from sentences when talking casually, as well as "wa" or "ga" or "o" in most cases? (regarding the sentence you did)

If i was that off on that literal translation though (and yes it was one) then are these words off? got em from the same site...

====

ikebana = flower arrangement
yasashiikoe = soft voice
yasushii = plain/simple
yasashiihito = promiscuous person
kuriya = kitchen
kurinuku = to drill/excavate
kurikaeshi = reiteration
kuraianto = client
wakatsu = seperate/distinguish
wakate = young person
wakaru = divide, seperate, dispense
wakari = understanding
wakarinikui = unintelligible/hard to understand
teaki = unengaged/not busy/leisure
teyaki = homemade
bakari = degree, extent, approximately, merely
bakarashii = absurd
iku = how many?/how much?/several/some/awe/fear
ikimi = raw meat/flesh and blood/living body
ikimono = animal/living thing
ikimaku = to infuriate
ikusei = promotion/nurture/training
kudashi = evacuation/purgation
kudasu = to lower/let go down
kudaranai = stupid/trivial/worthless
kudari = down-train (away from Tokyo)
kudarizaka = decline/downhill
kudarisen = down-line (away from Tokyo)
kishachin = train fare
kakuekiteisha = train that stops at every station
keredomo = however
onigiri = hand rolled sushi
yariyou = way of doing something
yarisugosu = to let something/somebody go past
oshinokeru = to brush aside
oshin = evil thought/nausea
oshirase = notification
oshibori = wet towel (meals)

===

[Frankey-eh]

I just realized
can't 事=about?

あなたの事を思う=To think ABOUT you
道の事を考える=To think ABOUT the streets
あなたの事が大好き=I love everything ABOUT you
経済の事を変わろう=Let's change the things ABOUT economics
なんなん子のことは=What ABOUT [blah blah]

by the way...the sentence about economics sounds REALLY strange to me... is it only me?

===

the list is too long... most of the nouns seem to be correct. The verbs are... a little on the grey side. I mean, they aren't wrong, but there are conditions to use them in, and it's not explained very clearly. Not recommended for beginners. There are definately better j-e word lists than these. I think whoever made that wanted to show the queerness of jpnese, how changing ONE letter could mean a whole different thing. That's why s/he chose such strange, uncommon words.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It is strange, because nobody would ever say it.

You would never ever say 経済の事 but I was having a bad creative example-making day. As much as you want to translate it as 'about' it doesn't explain the difference between あなたが好き and あなたの事が好き. Sure, you could translate it as 'I like you' versus 'I like everything about you' but it's forced, and the active change was the 'everything' added to the second phrase, because 'I like about you' makes no sense.

So it ain't that simple.

[Frankey-eh]

It is strange, because nobody would ever say it.

You would never ever say 経済の事 but I was having a bad creative example-making day. As much as you want to translate it as 'about' it doesn't explain the difference between あなたが好き and あなたの事が好き. Sure, you could translate it as 'I like you' versus 'I like everything about you' but it's forced, and the active change was the 'everything' added to the second phrase, because 'I like about you' makes no sense.

So it ain't that simple.

Heh. Guess I did stretch it a bit too tight.
^_^;
日本語の細かい所が苦手です。

Hmm... does 所 fit in the same category as koto? me think so...

[Henjin]

Deepbluevibes, I'll be completely honest with you... You're not going to be able to communicate well in Japanese, if at all. Even if you get some sentences figured out (which is possible), you probably won't understand the replies. I'm not trying to be mean, just realistic. I've had more experience than you w/ Japanese, and I've studied it longer, and I was only able to have very simple conversations w/ people... 'Where are you from,' 'where are you staying,' 'how long,' 'why are you learning Japanese,' etc.
I'd say the best you could do is learn as many necessary words as possible, and just speak English, but have the Japanese in the back of your mind in case they don't get what you're saying. It may help there.

I'm not trying to discourage you, because you definately should use your Japanese as much as possible, but try to be realistic. If you meet someone patient enough to let you try to speak Japanese, take advantage of it! But the average person probably won't understand your (or anyone else's) beginner Japanese, and you probably won't understand their native Japanese.

Someone who knows more correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I came in with a beginner's level of Japanese, came to the same bar every day for 3 months, and came out with conversational Japanese, a huge bar tab, and alcoholism.

Worth every penny/the hit to my liver.

If he's only going over for a visit, just use English. Toss an 'arigato' here, and a 'yoroshiku onegaishimasu' there, and you will be a pimpin' foreign star in a crazy land. And you'll get laid.

And isn't that all one can hope for?

[Henjin]

lol

I threw in a few 'Mecha mecha omoroi na~' every now and then... which probably explains why all the cute girls avoided me.... Yeah...

[EIJI]

deepblue, there are so many mistakes in the list.
You should not rely on that kind of site.

rika, it is hard to explain "koto".
sometimes, it means something about something.
But sometimes, it is euphemism.

"あなたのことが好き"
"I like you"
#he/she doesn't seems to love you.

"あなたが好き"
"I like you and most likely I love you."
#Japanese people usually don't say "あなたを愛しています"
Of couse there are exceptions, I mean younger generation say this sentence.
But for me, I have never say this embarrassed sentence. :)

Ummm, Japanese is horribly difficult. :confused:

[deepbluevibes]

EIJI, what kind of mistakes? if you get the time, could you PM me why?

And Henjin;

I'm purposefully putting up screwed up sentences here so that I can better understand the langugage structure and vocab. If we're talking basic vocab and sentence structure, I know enough to have decent conversations;

I know how to say what's going on today, where I want to go, what I did last night, who i'm hanging out with, where I want to be at, if i'm tired, happy, eating, playing at an arcade, how to ask for contact info, and what the replies in any circumstance would sound like to those.

let's put it this way; imagine someone playing the drums.

you guys are like my teachers. now, why would I want to play the same old boring basic crap that I have engrained in my head ( basic sentences, all katakana and hiragana, basic vocab) to my teacher? I want to *learn* so I will try some impossibly hard beat and fuck up on purpose, so that I can be taught at where I went wrong, and then, correct my actions.

see? =P i will admit, while I can watch films or listen to people in real life (for those of you that saw lost in translation, when the director was talking, i could pick up stuff like "turn left/right" and "you don't understand, do you" and "we're wasting time" along with a bunch of engrish) and pick up on a ton of key words or general sentences, if they were talking to me, 'd have to take a few seconds to form a response, but i probably could.

[EIJI]

EIJI, what kind of mistakes? if you get the time, could you PM me why?

Ok, I will try. tomorrw is day off, anyway.

yasushii = plain/simple
yasashii

yasashiihito = promiscuous person
genial
soft-centered
gentle
soft gentle
etc
It's depend on context.

kuriya = kitchen
It's too old fashion.
daidokoro or キッチン

wakatsu = seperate/distinguish
Umm, literary style
wakeru

wakate = young person
It's ok, but unusual in daily conversations
wakai hito or wakamono

wakaru = divide, seperate, dispense
wakeru

wakari = understanding
meaningless.
wakaru = understand
understanding = rikai, rikairyoku, etc

teaki = unengaged/not busy/leisure
Ummm, it may be 手空き, but unusual.

teyaki = homemade
wow, It means hand-baked rice cracker, not homemade
homemade = tezukuri

bakari = degree, extent, approximately, merely
not accurate
asonde bakari inaide benkyou shinasai.
Don't keep on playing, Do homework now!

iku = how many?/how much?/several/some/awe/fear
meaningless
iku = go or come

ikimi = raw meat/flesh and blood/living body
I don't know this word. meaningless.

kudashi = evacuation/purgation
It's may be harakudashi. But why chose this?

kudasu = to lower/let go down
not acculate.
sageru
onaka wo kudasu = I have diarrhea

kishachin = train fare
old fashion, kisha means a locomotive
densha chin

onigiri = hand rolled sushi
not accurate
Onigiri is not a kind of sushi.
rice ball

oshin = evil thought/nausea
literary style and incorrect
"悪心" 悪 = evil, 心 = thought
BUT, it never means evil thought, just means nausea.

[Henjin]

And Henjin;

I'm purposefully putting up screwed up sentences here so that I can better understand the langugage structure and vocab. If we're talking basic vocab and sentence structure, I know enough to have decent conversations;

I know how to say what's going on today, where I want to go, what I did last night, who i'm hanging out with, where I want to be at, if i'm tired, happy, eating, playing at an arcade, how to ask for contact info, and what the replies in any circumstance would sound like to those.

じゃあこれがわかるだろうね。ぜひ、日本語で喋ろう。

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but 'how long are you staying here' isn't a complicated sentence. And don't ever presume you have the basics down enough to not practice them. Also, just out of curiosity, what kind of conversation experience have you had? Can you pickup what people say to you? If you can, that's great, because that's a very hard thing to do. I can have decent conversations on this board that I could never have face to face, simply because it's so much easier to comprehend something you read than something you hear.

Either way, have fun. I guess the only point I'm trying to get across is that you're never as prepared or as fluent as you think you are. Heh. Don't be disappointed. (I know I was to some degree)

[deepbluevibes]

Oh, I know. i'm not saying i'm like, pro or ass kicking or anything at it. it's just the way you worded it seemed like you were saying i absolutely sucked, and i've put tons of hours into reading different books, lessons from my teacher, memorizing katakana and hiragana, etc. etc.

conversation experience, i've had a little. thankfully I found a friend through college who speaks decently fluent japanese who i'm going to practice with before the trip, so that's good.

I can pick up what people say to me, unless we're not talking about the same thing here? I think you're talking about like... how you did that sentence up there, can I catch the visual cues and audial clues to catch that they're saying that to me and not some other person?

What I mean by complicated sentence is, i'm learning this stuff from a teacher.

i.e. he's doing it in lessons. so what may be simple to you is just something I haven't learned yet, etc.

simple to me is sentences like;

"where are you going?"
"where is this at?"
"I am going to *blank*"
"There's a dark hotel behind that bar."
"Today i'm playing drums at the park."

stuff like that. The "how long are you staying here" sentence eluded me because my teacher hasn't taught me any of the words there except for how to say "you here". (i.e. nihon ni for in japan). I also knew that "long" wouldn't translate directly, because it probably has a different meaning in japanese than it does in english, because long in that way is almost a slang term in english. (then again it seems nowadays 95% of spoken english is slang)

so, it's kind of like a "gap" in my learning. like how in tennis you can have a great forehand and backhand and serve but your volleys suck, and to someone who's a great volleyer, this makes no sense. not saying i'm great at japanese, i'd honestly rank myself like.. if 1 is a total beginner w/no knowlege and 10 is a native japanese person who's in their 30's or so and mastered the language, i'd say i'm like a 1.5, 2 at best.

[Ketay]

About the 事 thing...

Doesn't it actually directly translate as what is used to turn things into verb phrases and stuff... Like in English you can't say:

"What do you think is fun"
"TO RUN is fun"

And make too much sense (although it does make sense in... Uhh... I don't know why but it makes sense, but not in the sense you want to). To make it make complete sense you'd conjugate "To run" into "Running" so it's a phrase that you can use as the subject in a sentence...

And isn't that what 事 does in Japanese? Like you'd say:

「走ることが楽しいだ」
Instead of
「走るが楽しいだ」

Or something?

---

Edit: And about the 95% of English being slang... That was also a problem for me... Like I'd think that I couldn't use a direct translation for a word in Japanese since it seemed like slang in English, but a lot of times they can be used in the same way. Kind of annoying for me. <.< (Such as I thought that "long" only applied to length... Until I heard 長い間... x_x)

[Aniultima]

So you're studying Japanese under a teacher that hasn't taught you any vocabulary yet? It sounds to me like you have a crap teacher. Seriously, Japanese is pretty logical and all but only when you have the basics down can you put one and one together and get two.

If you really want to speak Japanese when you go to Japan, do yourself a favor and buy a phrasebook. They're like $10USD. If you want to actually learn, get a teacher that will teach you vocabulary and then buy a dictionary. They're about the same price as a phrasebook. Don't just buy a dictionary and go to japan putting random things together. You'll only get laughed at. The Japanese need to laugh like the rest of us, but save yourself the embarassment.

Posting here wanting to "learn" isn't going to do much because of the intonations and such you need to put here and there, because there are too many sentence structures to post and have you comprehend, too many variations on one sentence structure, and above all because its much easier to learn Japanese at least from a teacher. We'd just be wasting all of our time.

I may have come off as mean, but the truth is kind of a harsh thing.

[Faumdano]

Ketay: That's a different usage of 事 than what I was asking about, the one you mentioed isn't too difficult to understand, in fact it's quite necessary to say certain things, however the one I mentioned isn't all that easy to express in english.

Any one else have some grammer from japanese that they think is hard to express in english without sounding odd?

For instance ～てしまう (or any conjugation thereof), what it expresses is pretty straight forward in japanese but sounds a bit odd and forced if you try to translate it into english in most cases.

このまえ「ほしにく」をモンスターの群れにやったら、人間の子供がでてきて、それを持っていっちまったんだ 。

In that example how do you express the (alternate form of) ～しまう in english without making it sound forced? "Oops, the kid took off with my meat" ? :p

[Ketay]

Ahem... Don't mind me then. ^.-

[Henjin]

Yeah, that's the nominalization usage of 'koto.' I didn't bring it up because that's not what he was asking about.

And as for the 'gaps' in your Japanese knowledge, you have to realize that learning a language is a lot more complicated than learning just some phrases. Phrases like that are what business people learn so they can ask where the bathroom is and aside from that, just amuse their Japanese acquaintances. You have to study the grammar and the vocabulary (and get that down) before you start trying to converse.

And when I asked if you could catch spoken Japanese, I mean can you understand what someone says at a fast speed w/out the clues you get in written Japanese?

[deepbluevibes]

So you're studying Japanese under a teacher that hasn't taught you any vocabulary yet? It sounds to me like you have a crap teacher. Seriously, Japanese is pretty logical and all but only when you have the basics down can you put one and one together and get two.

If you really want to speak Japanese when you go to Japan, do yourself a favor and buy a phrasebook. They're like $10USD. If you want to actually learn, get a teacher that will teach you vocabulary and then buy a dictionary. They're about the same price as a phrasebook. Don't just buy a dictionary and go to japan putting random things together. You'll only get laughed at. The Japanese need to laugh like the rest of us, but save yourself the embarassment.

Posting here wanting to "learn" isn't going to do much because of the intonations and such you need to put here and there, because there are too many sentence structures to post and have you comprehend, too many variations on one sentence structure, and above all because its much easier to learn Japanese at least from a teacher. We'd just be wasting all of our time.

I may have come off as mean, but the truth is kind of a harsh thing.

When did I say he wasn't teaching me vocab? I went through all of the lessons he's gaven me so far (7 out of 42) and I came across over 200 vocabulary words alone, not counting the ones I didn't even count as "words" (desu, dewa/ja arimasen, iru, aru, etc.)

also, I have *three* phrase books, two atlases, and a ton of other crap, so... yeah i'd say i'm pretty prepared.

[deepbluevibes]

I get it about the phrases. Trust me, i've had to learn a lot of stuff in my life, and I know what steps I need to take; it would be eternally stupid to just memorize phrases *without* knowing how they were made up or what the words meant seperately.

About being able to understand people, there's a scene in Lost In Translation where a director yells at Bill Murray's character.

Now, I don't know *exactly* what he was saying (I checked up on it later though) but I was able to piece together the general gist of what he was saying when I heard the words "hidari", "nanji", and "anata wa, wakari" and "wakarimasen".

Added in the context that the translator had just asked the director what he wanted ill to do and what way to turn, I was able to figure out that the direcotr was asking bill if he understaood that he wanted him to turn left, and that time was running thin because he pointed to his watch.

So you could say I sort of understand what they're saying, with the vocab I know for a fact from my lessons, the phrase books, and visual cues plus context.

[Henjin]

Well, I'll stop dampening your optimism and just wish you a good time. Let us know how the 日本語会話 went when you get back.

[deepbluevibes]

Well, I'll stop dampening your optimism and just wish you a good time. Let us know how the 日本語会話 went when you get back.

i don't have that much optimism.. it's more like, refusal to give up ^^;; haha

[Henjin]

Nah, if you think you're gonna have conversations w/ strangers, you're pretty optimistic. :D

[B MacD]

Deepbluevibes,

I'll be frank. And when I say frank, I mean devastating. Based on what I've seen you post in this thread so far, I can't imagine you being able to communicate with a Japanese person on anything more than a very superficial level. I'm not trying to be harsh; it's simply the way it is. There are also a lot of inconsistencies in your posts, which leads me to think you aren't as skilled in Japanese as you'd like us to believe, or your method of learning is extremely bizarre.

You claim to have basic sentence structure down, and be able to hold a fairly decent conversation. Yet your original post was rife with errors, of an elementary nature. Isn't your teacher teaching you basic structure at all? (FYI, I would not recommend using "da ka?" as a question form. I can't imagine a context where that would sound natural; in fact, I rather think you'll come off sounding like a complete hillbilly/redneck.)

You also said you want to intentionally post incorrect difficult sentences, as means of learning? That makes ZERO sense. Try posting what you think is correct instead..it's far more effective to try and make it right yourself, as opposed to deliberately doing otherwise. BTW your original post is not a difficult sentence, yet you still had significant problems.

Do you actually converse with your Japanese teacher? Simply being able to ask "(noun) wa doko desu ka?" Does not constitute a conversation. Being able to say, "kore o kudasai." doesn't either. Get your teacher to teach you basic grammatical rules, and practice simple sentences from there. Choose topics that you are familiar with.

So you watched "Lost in Translation", and were able to glean a few key words from some of the scenes. Don't read too much into that in assessing your ability. You seem to place a lot of stock in it, for some reason. Picking up "left" and "right" from a movie doesn't mean you'll be able to handle a natural speed conversation.

I realize this may sound harsh, I hope you don't take it as such. I just want to save you the disappointment (and embarrassment) for what will happen when you actually try and interact with someone in Japanese. Have you ever studied another language before? (Prior to Japanese?) I think you are either grossly overestimating your ability, or under-estimating the magnitude of the task at hand. Learn the basics, memorize a few stock phrases, and don’t worry too much about communicating in Japanese on your trip.

B

[Henjin]

I went to the front desk of my hotel and told the lady in Japanese that I had reservations, but my checkin wasn't until 1:00pm and I wanted to try to checkin earlier... I got my point across, but I just kind of stared at her when she replied in full speed Japanese. Heheh.

[deepbluevibes]

i'm not going to reply to that post, because i know my abilities, and i don't overcompensate. period.

*sigh* trust me, if anything i underestimate myself constantly so that i will become better. i have my own weird way of learning things because it works the best for me.

[Henjin]

In all honesty, I think B MacD is right... though a little harsh. Either way, you're also right, we don't know how good of a grasp you have on Japanese. It's just that what we've seen so far leaves us a bit dubious. That and this is all coming from people who have actually been there, done that, and in my case at least, failed miserably on several occasions. lol

Go, have fun, and let us know how it was when you get back. When do you leave again?

[deepbluevibes]

oct 13th-24th.
sorry, don't feel like justifying myself again. would type out a response to macd's post, but yeah. i know what i know and i learn how i learn, and it's always done me well so far.

must not be fucking up on it too bad; could read out of newspapers at 3 years old fluently, but when i learn things i try to underestimate myself as much as possible as to learn more.

also, henjin, when i said what i thought you'd say to say "i can speak a little japanese" or whatever i said a page back, could you repost what you think i should say instead in romaji? this computer can't read japanese language.

[Pierrot le Fou]

じゃあこれがわかるだろうね。ぜひ、日本語で喋ろう。

jaa, kore ga wakaru da rou ne. zehi, nihongo de shaberou.

[Henjin]

Thanks. I dunno if it's right, though. Heh.

[Geostigmatic]

Well, I don't know about incomprehensible... i had the nihon ni part down at least. =P

also, i'm assuming that by this point it's ok to just omit "you" from sentences when talking casually, as well as "wa" or "ga" or "o" in most cases? (regarding the sentence you did)

First off, your syntax made me cringe. You're not going to be able to construct any sentence that won't get you stared at unless you get that down. The order in English is [Subject Verb Object]. Japanese is completely different. "Douyatte motto wa touchi ni anata da ka?" is just... you won't be understood. "[Anata wa] Itsumade nippon/nihon ni imasu ka?" is what I was taught would be the best way. Also (total side note) you might want to avoid 'da' as a verb among people you don't know. Stick with 'desu'-- it's polite form and is less likely to get you in trouble.

Secondly, as far as I know, at this point the term 'anata' seems to have a strangely informal meaning-- it's so rarely used in favor of dropping the 'you' or using a name that it's starting to become a little bit on the odd side to be used. I believe I read somewhere that it's now used almost exclusively by native Japanese among married couples-- though that may have been misinterpreted; at this point I'm out of courses to take at my college and am stuck with the next-level text. In any case, the best thing to do is to use a surname (Tanaka-san). Stick with -san; it is your friend.

I agree with Aniultima, though-- buy a phrase book. Carry it everywhere. And unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure what you're saying won't offend, don't say it without consulting said phrasebook.

[megaversal]

When I went last year, I had (what I thought) was a year of good Japanese under my belt. Then I learned the reality -- I knew nothing ;) In any case, my friends and I had a fantastic time and there's always going to be someone who speaks a little English and who knows what kind of fun you can have if you're adventurous.

Returning this year for an extended stay definitely helped my Japanese, but really -- whatever you know just makes for an easier, more fun time in Japan.

[deepbluevibes]

Geostigmatic, i know about the syntax order. You know what, let me try a different example...

For any of you who play sports or DDR or musical instruments, to get better, do you just practice the easy stuff (swinging a racket, playing easy mode, doing simple 4/4 beats) over and over and over forever without ever trying the hard stuff, knowing you'll mess up?

For me, I want to learn as much as possible, then go *back* and refine the basics. The reasoning for this is because sometimes, languages (actually all of the time) come back and introduce a new particle or sentence structure or something like that that throws off everything you ever learned.

I.e. i made a topic a while back, asking about "ni" and "de" particles. My teacher had only taught me "ni" and he was using it in examples where, according to about 95% of the board, he should have used "de". Why? Because he didn't want to overwhelm me with a ton of stuff in one lesson; he saved it for about two or three lessons later.

Same for math. When you're in kindergarden, they don't teach you 3846 x 8263 or something. They don't even let you *know* numbers above 1,000 exist. But, as we all know, when you're ingrained into a certain way of thinking, trying to completely change that is hard as fuck.

Which is why, whenever I learn things, I get the basics down some, then I try all of this weird stuff that I haven't learned from anyone or that I *know* i'm incorrect on, and then once I find out the error in my ways, i'll be that much more knowledgeable about it, and when I go back the to the basics, i may find that my original lesson i was taking or things i were learning have changed, and i can practice them the correct way, not the half-complete way.

Again, i learn strangely, but it works for me, and i can't expect anyone else to understand it. Everything I do I taught myself the way to learn it; i do reverse slices in tennis where i bring my arm from *right* to left with my right arm, which is highly unnatural, in stepmania i play with eight fingers on four arrows, again bizarre, etc...

[Henjin]

Hey, whatever works, right? The important part is the end result.

[deepbluevibes]

Yes, thank you again Henjin, for realizing this. ^^ also i pmed you a question or two again.. sorry >.>