New Details on Tillman's Death

[Fred]

I missed this story when it first came out. Now, there is some speculation that Pat Tillman was deliberately killed rather than just shot by accident.

Here is part of the most recent article. Here is the link: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3958728.html


Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Among other information contained in the documents:

_ In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

_ Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

[Mittens]

Who the fuck is Pat Tillman? o0
*already wiki'd and still dont know why hes important*
0o

[Black fist]

same thing I was thinking.

[Chris]

Who the fuck is Pat Tillman? o0
*already wiki'd and still dont know why hes important*
0o

He was a NFL player who joined the Army after 9/11.

[Chuckles]

(And was killed in a friendly fire incident that his CO decided not to tell his family about until much later.)

[stsparky]

If all the scandals and cover-ups perpetuated by Bush and the Neocon army, this could be the worst yet. It has recently come to light that Pat Tillman was killed by three bullets to the forehead. And not just three bullets to the forehead but at close range! That's not friendly fire, that's assassination.

Many facts back up the idea that Tillman's death was a planned out execution. Consider:
• Tillman and his platoon were Special Forces. They had hours and hours of training that regular soldiers did not get. They were trained not to shoot wildly and indiscriminately. Friendly fire is generally wild and indiscriminate. It is not three bullets at close range.
• Tillman's crew was sent, for the first and only time ever on an evening mission. What is the point of an evening mission besides massive chaos? Daylight, you can see what's going on. Night, you can sneak up. Evening, you wander into the sheepherders coming home from the mountain pastures. Why exactly?
• The team's Humvee broke down on the way ... and they were ordered to continue on foot. Again, what was the point? Doesn't a broken down Humvee in the lone road in the valley kind of ruin the element of surprise?
• Tillman was, contrary to the Republican portrayal of him as a reflexive patriot, deeply troubled by the war. In fact, he was overheard speaking out about the Iraq invasion and telling another soldier to vote for Kerry. Tillman's favorite author: none other than Norm Chomsky. A visit with Chomsky was set up for as soon as Tillman returned. It seem most likely he was planning to speak out loudly and publicly against the war when his tour was over.
• Tillman kept an extensive journal since he was 16 and guarded it with his life. Two days after his death, the journal, along with almost all of his other personal affects, disappeared.
• The fiasco of the cover-up around his killing continues to go higher and higher up the ladder ... our president himself has blocked the release of information around the killing, claiming executive privilege.

All this evidence points to the unmistakable conclusion that Tillman was assassinated. If he had come out strongly against the war and Bush policy just a couple of months before the election, it would have been more than enough to tip it over to Kerry. Before this week, I would have disregarded this scenario as pathological ranting. But this week's AP story makes it incontrovertible that something really bad went down. The army's own doctors thought so and sought a criminal investigation. Three bullets, in a tight circle, from ten yards away will do that. Of course, they were turned down.

It's time to really ask who ordered the assassination of Pat Tillman.

[Black fist]

He was a NFL player who joined the Army after 9/11.
Ahhh I remember espn do a segment on him.

[Beowulf]

From I heard it sounds like Tillman was a dick and his squad fragged him. Unfortunate to be sure but nothing overly unusual in war.

[Y.T.]

Fragging a corporal ?
It seems just wrong .. after all, he was commanding 4 guys at most.
He didn't have much influence on the overall direction of fighting...
I believe fragging is what happened to over-zealous lieutnants..

But, the idea that he was killed because of orders from on-high seems equally implausible to me.

[Roxie]

wow...how deep does the rabbit hole go?

[Chris]

From I heard it sounds like Tillman was a dick and his squad fragged him. Unfortunate to be sure but nothing overly unusual in war.


Yeah, after hearing some of what he said before his death it sounds like this is the most likely possibility. A conspiracy to kill him would have way to many holes to actually work.

[Civilization Phrase III]

If all the scandals and cover-ups perpetuated by Bush and the Neocon army, this could be the worst yet. It has recently come to light that Pat Tillman was killed by three bullets to the forehead. And not just three bullets to the forehead but at close range! That's not friendly fire, that's assassination.

Many facts back up the idea that Tillman's death was a planned out execution. Consider:
• Tillman and his platoon were Special Forces. They had hours and hours of training that regular soldiers did not get. They were trained not to shoot wildly and indiscriminately. Friendly fire is generally wild and indiscriminate. It is not three bullets at close range.
• Tillman's crew was sent, for the first and only time ever on an evening mission. What is the point of an evening mission besides massive chaos? Daylight, you can see what's going on. Night, you can sneak up. Evening, you wander into the sheepherders coming home from the mountain pastures. Why exactly?
• The team's Humvee broke down on the way ... and they were ordered to continue on foot. Again, what was the point? Doesn't a broken down Humvee in the lone road in the valley kind of ruin the element of surprise?
• Tillman was, contrary to the Republican portrayal of him as a reflexive patriot, deeply troubled by the war. In fact, he was overheard speaking out about the Iraq invasion and telling another soldier to vote for Kerry. Tillman's favorite author: none other than Norm Chomsky. A visit with Chomsky was set up for as soon as Tillman returned. It seem most likely he was planning to speak out loudly and publicly against the war when his tour was over.
• Tillman kept an extensive journal since he was 16 and guarded it with his life. Two days after his death, the journal, along with almost all of his other personal affects, disappeared.
• The fiasco of the cover-up around his killing continues to go higher and higher up the ladder ... our president himself has blocked the release of information around the killing, claiming executive privilege.

All this evidence points to the unmistakable conclusion that Tillman was assassinated. If he had come out strongly against the war and Bush policy just a couple of months before the election, it would have been more than enough to tip it over to Kerry. Before this week, I would have disregarded this scenario as pathological ranting. But this week's AP story makes it incontrovertible that something really bad went down. The army's own doctors thought so and sought a criminal investigation. Three bullets, in a tight circle, from ten yards away will do that. Of course, they were turned down.

It's time to really ask who ordered the assassination of Pat Tillman.
It's really scary that Bush is involved.

Just think about all the FBI members who read emails all day, listen to phone calls, etc etc. Is this really a free country anymore? Or is there more to fear?

[Jetsetlemming]

There's a fuckton of US soldiers and people in general that have openly complained about the war. The Bush administration hatching a conspiracy to specifically kill this guy doesn't make sense.

[Chris]

It's really scary that Bush is involved.

Just think about all the FBI members who read emails all day, listen to phone calls, etc etc. Is this really a free country anymore? Or is there more to fear?


Of course he's going to be involved, it's a US soldier, and a pretty famous one at that. But it seems that he didn't have much involvement anyways, not much more than any other US death.


Seriously, yes, it's possible another solider could have, in an extremely rare case decided to put a 3 round burst into his head, but ask yourself how plausible an assassination really is? I mean, honestly, do people really understand how complicated coverups are?

Secondly, the government has always kept an eye on outbound mail and such from our soldiers, they always will. Operational security, especially in a Rangers unit is pretty important. That's nothing new. Same with the FBI/NSA/CIA keeping tabs on citizens it deems threatening. That's especially nothing new. No, I don't think you have to worry about them busting down your door unless you're doing something pretty suspicious.

I think we need to be worried about things like the Patriot act, and giving up our freedoms for fear of things like terrorism. Bush has scared me a couple times with the stuff he's pulled and the laws hes passed regarding our privacy and freedoms, but at the same time running around asking if this country is still free is a tad bit melodramatic. Are we on a slippery slope that we need to keep a very good eye on? Certainly. Are we fascist? Not quite yet.

[ミュー]

Americans: Complaining about the Partisans in Power since 1776

[Fred]

I don’t feel like I have either the expertise, the knowledge about military practices, or even enough information about the case to state emphatically whether or not Tillman was deliberately murdered. I think there are enough odd details in the story to warrant a criminal investigation.

For example,

1. The placement of the entry wounds suggests he was shot at relatively close range.
2. There was no enemy fire.
3. His diary and other personal items were burned.
4. The military lied about his death.
5. The President refused to release information about his death (claiming executive privilege)

At this point, the two things that disturb me the most are that the military lied about the cause of his death and that the military suppressed a criminal investigation. That is a terrible way to repay someone’s sacrifice for their country. It’s not only criminal, it is just wrong.

I can't help but feel for his family as well. To lose a son or brother in the prime of his life is hard enough, but to have his sacrifice tainted in this manner is unconscionable.