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Jetsetlemming
07-05-2007, 04:33 AM
http://www.science-spirit.org/archive_cm_detail.php?new_id=305
Speed of light barrier broken
U.S. scientists claim they have broken the speed of light: the ultimate speed barrier.

Research carried out by particle physicist Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, shows that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second.

The implications, like the speed, are awesome. One of its implications is that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time.

Dr. Wang transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with specially treated caesium gas. Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it and travelled a further 60ft across the laboratory. In effect it existed in two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled 300 times faster than light.

The research is already causing controversy among physicists. If light could travel forward in time it could carry information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable.

Dr Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressed by the findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said.

In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25% above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light.

Dr Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He believes that information can be sent faster than light, but that this will not breach the principle of causality because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the savings.

"The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding up the way signals move through computer circuits," he said.

Wang's experiment is the latest and possibly the most important evidence that the physical world may not operate according to any of the accepted conventions. In this new world, sub-atomic particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time - making no distinction between space and time.

Separate experiments carried out by Chiao illustrate this. He showed that in certain circumstances photons - the particles of which light is made - could apparently jump between two points separated by a barrier in what appears to be zero time. The process, known as tunnelling, has been used to make some of the most sensitive electron microscopes.

The implications of Wang's experiments will arouse fierce debate. Many will question whether his work can be interpreted as proving that light can exceed its normal speed - suggesting that another mechanism may be at work.

Neil Turok, professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, said he awaited the details with interest, but added: "I doubt this will change our view of the fundamental laws of physics."

Wang emphasises that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not apply to other physical entities. But scientists are beginning to accept that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for inter-stellar space travel.

Source: The Sunday Times

Kaji
07-05-2007, 05:16 AM
*countdown to April Fool's in 4...3...*

ParryDat
07-05-2007, 05:25 AM
*CoughBULLSHITCough*

Plekto
07-05-2007, 05:49 AM
Well, I don't know...

Thay have managed to slow down light to a few miles per second, so speeding it up...

Note, every method to do either seems to require a special medium or gas to put the light through, so it would only be good for very special short distances. We're talking about a few hundred feet at most. Hardly any distance worth mentioning, in fact.

Kwiz
07-05-2007, 05:50 AM
This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect.

Hardly. Even with photon entanglement (referred to as "tunneling" in the article), there still needs to be an initial cause, however remote or delayed it may be.

It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable.

Dr Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He believes that information can be sent faster than light, but that this will not breach the principle of causality because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the savings.

What Dr. Nimtz said. However, the small amount of extra signal speed might find some niche application once we have a civilization spanning our solar system.

Wang emphasises that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not apply to other physical entities.

Well... obviously. If I'm not mistaken, photons don't have mass.

But scientists are beginning to accept that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for inter-stellar space travel.

Maybe. The main reason I refrain from rolling my eyes here is that I've got a soft spot for the idea of faster-than-light travel...

Jay
07-05-2007, 09:49 AM
dr wang lol

This is actually quite fascinating. Keep me updated! :)

Y.T.
07-05-2007, 10:02 AM
Source : Sunday Times


Sunday Times, now that's a physics journal I've never heard of ..

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/faster_than_c_000719.html

Seems to me Sunday Times is either seven years late', or especially slow, or ..

Here's a better article http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/4/7/8 ...
where the scientist himself argue that the speed of light limit holds.

Here's another explanation ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijun_Wang

Maybe Mr. 150 or whatever high IQ you have, you should look around before shitting another thread.

MNJetter
07-05-2007, 11:38 AM
Speed of light barrier broken
U.S. scientists claim they have broken the speed of light: the ultimate speed barrier.

Research carried out by particle physicist Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, shows that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second.

So.....they broke the speed-of-light barrier by making light go faster?

Wouldn't that just increase the barrier, not break it? :watson:

Roland
07-05-2007, 12:37 PM
So.....they broke the speed-of-light barrier by making light go faster?

Wouldn't that just increase the barrier, not break it? :watson:

That's what I thought at first. Just the speed increases.
The speed of light as we call it ist just the speed of light in vacuum. It changes in air, water etc.
The same with sound (not in vacuum of course. Remember, in space, nobody can hear you scream^^). It travels faster in water.

Trump
07-05-2007, 01:45 PM
The fact that people can't just say "this is what happened" but instead have to argue about it means we can't even reliably tell what we are measuring let alone what it means. I mean, the propogation delay along wires and things can more than account for 62 nanoseconds, so for all we know it could have been an artifact of his measurement set up.

羽之助
07-05-2007, 01:54 PM
And in other news, we can make endless electricity using the power of magnetics!

But please let this be true, just for the awesomeness of it. I want to annex other planets to the Terran Empire.

All-American Alfonse
07-05-2007, 03:55 PM
I read something on the BBC website recently about WIRELESS electricity......for some reason that scares the fuck out of me.

RandomPasserby
07-05-2007, 04:05 PM
I read something on the BBC website recently about WIRELESS electricity......for some reason that scares the fuck out of me.
Induction?

Wizdom
07-05-2007, 04:06 PM
I read something on the BBC website recently about WIRELESS electricity......for some reason that scares the fuck out of me.

I heard the same story and immediately I though "wait didnt Tesla do that years ago".

Its great and all but damn! Tesla figured it out so long ago why now are we only beginning to test it out.

What scares me is the though that someone possibly figured out free energy or some other great invention long ago and the MAN! is repressing it until he can find a way to make a profit of it.

Like the guy who figured out HH0 and a way to make is car run on water for 100 miles a gallon.

Trump
07-05-2007, 06:59 PM
I hear that all the time from people who only know enough to be dangerous. "Oh didn't Tesla do this a long time ago? Why haven't we done it now!"

Sure Tesla figured out how to transmit power... but he was just proving you could it at all and not figuring out ways to make it feasible for large scale use. The efficiency of those systems is downright horrible, they take huge transmitters and receivers (the size of small buildings) and there are major concerns with human safety (lasers tend to cook people). We do use wireless power in isolated cases (RF ID tags) but in general we haven't figured out how to make it worth while for widespread and long distance use.

Decade
07-05-2007, 07:42 PM
Star Wars/Trek Nerds the world over have just nerdgasmed all over their keyboards and prepared to go to space :duh:


dr wang lol
Dont laugh son. I know a dentist named Doctor Johnson. His catchphrase is "Check THIS oral!"

Cherub Rock
07-05-2007, 07:53 PM
Haven't we known for about a decade that light pulses travel faster than the speed of light?

Citizen
07-05-2007, 09:59 PM
What scares me is the though that someone possibly figured out free energy or some other great invention long ago and the MAN! is repressing it until he can find a way to make a profit of it.

It's not that hard to come up with a way to make a profit off of it. The average person can't just go into their sheds and cobble themselves up a free energy machine. So the government would still be able to charge for the energy, because it'd be coming from their machines.

Plekto
07-05-2007, 10:39 PM
well, there is a distinction as well between "free energy"(cost) versus "free energy"(more than you put in).

In reality, there are hundreds of ways to accomplish the first, thanks to the amazing amount of energy our planet's core puts out as well as the energy we get from the Sun. Almost every crackpot out there is merely doing the former or at best using a method to tap into one of those energy sources(magnetic fields being the most common).

There is no free lunch, as they say, but there is such a thing as a lunch that you didn't pay for... ;)

SlickWilly440
07-05-2007, 11:17 PM
There is no free lunch, as they say, but there is such a thing as a lunch that you didn't pay for... ;)

Which by the way would be stealing....LOL

Kwiz
07-05-2007, 11:30 PM
In that sense we've been stealing energy for quite a long time.

Y.T.
07-06-2007, 12:20 AM
I read something on the BBC website recently about WIRELESS electricity......for some reason that scares the fuck out of me.


What they did not mention is, that it's less than 70% effective, that means that a serious amount of power escapes from it .. which would probably cause a lot of interference with other equipment.

So it can't be used with machines that need a lot of power..
(especially not, when headless sheep are running around bleating about the dangers of wifi)
Cables don't have that problem.

Sure, you can transfer energy wirelessly....

Not as effective as high voltage power lines, by any stretch of imagination, and such a device would be very dangerous in case of misalignment and so on
..

Well... obviously. If I'm not mistaken, photons don't have mass.

You are. They do have a mass. Not much, but they have it.
Ever heard about solar sailing ? ..

Fermented Yeast Paste
07-06-2007, 12:42 AM
You are. They do have a mass. Not much, but they have it.
Ever heard about solar sailing ? ..
Quantum mechanics. A photon has zero mass.

Druid
07-06-2007, 01:27 AM
Quantam mechanics aslo says that a cat can be alive or dead depending on whether it's in a box and we're looking at it...ya know?

Kwiz
07-06-2007, 01:53 AM
You are. They do have a mass. Not much, but they have it.
Ever heard about solar sailing ? ..

Solar sails produce thrust by harnessing radiation pressure, not kinetic energy. From here (http://www.u.arizona.edu/~lilley98/):

" It can be shown using Maxwell’s equations that the radiation pressure exerted on a body by an incoming electromagnetic wave is equal to the energy density (radiant energy per unit volume) of the wave [1],

P = ε/2 E^2 + 1/(2μ) B^2

(1)
where E and B are the magnitudes of the electric and magnetic fields, respectively. Equation (1) gives the instantaneous pressure of a normally incident beam of light on a perfectly absorbing surface."

Pretty weird concept, but quite real nevertheless.

Y.T.
07-06-2007, 03:02 PM
Hmm .. It has zero mass, but non-zero momentum .. since it has momentum,
I bet the radiation pressure is just the sum of kinetic energies of all incoming photons ..

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00332.htm

I always assumed it has mass, since it has momentum .. it's all really weird.

Trump
07-09-2007, 01:49 PM
There are sooo many assumptions out there right now. Like you said, most people assume that if you have momentum you must have mass. But things that seem obvious on a macroscopic level (gravity, etc) just don't seem to apply when dealing with subatomic, quantum, and near-light-speed physics. Furthermore, you have to realize that measurements at those scales are all inferences. We can't keep zooming in until we see an electron or a proton, let alone the subnucleaic particles. I mean take a look at Heisenburg's Uncertainty principle. We do not have the techniques to measure something at that level without altering the subject of our measurement. To measure an electron we have to hit it with another electron (or something similar), moving both electrons. We can measure the effects on the electron we threw in there to see where the other one was, but by then we've changed what we are looking at. Maybe some day we will come up with techniques that will allow us a non-biasing view, but not right now.

So yeah, all of that stuff terribly mind boggling.