Ending The Manhunt

[Beowulf]

I don't know if you folk have heard but the ESRB has rated Manhunt 2 AO. This prompted the following actions:
Nintendo Says No To AO (http://kotaku.com/gaming/original/nintendo-nixes-ao-manhunt-270741.php)
Sony has also confirmed that it will not allow the game to be sold on the Playstation if it is AO rated.

Why?

Because a shithead special interest group wanted it that way.
AO Rating (http://kotaku.com/gaming/breaking/manhunt-2-rated-adults-only-270337.php)
The Campaign was asking people to send an email to the ESRB's Patricia Vance calling for the game to be rated Adults Only, essentially comparing it to an X or unrated movie, because of the "unprecedented combination of video game violence and the interactive Wii platform." Up until that point the letter, while I don't exactly agree with it, at least makes sense. But then it goes on to say that giving Manhunt 2 anything less would be saying that the ESRB condones the marketing of violent video games to children. Keep in mind that a mature rating means 17 or older, while an AO means 18 or older.

The ESRB's Patricia Vance responded earlier today, saying they were waiting for Rockstar's response to their rating:

"We have received the letter from CCFC and, while we might take issue with some of the statements made within, we sincerely appreciate their expressed concerns. Our ratings are intended to provide guidance that allows parents to choose games they deem suitable for their children, and that is a responsibility we take extremely seriously.

"It should be noted that ESRB has already assigned a rating for the Wii, PS2 and PSP versions of Manhunt 2, and that rating has in fact already been communicated to the publisher. However, we are unable to publicly release the rating at this time as it is our policy that ratings be posted to our website 30 days following assignment, unless the game is released prior to the end of that period. This is done to give publishers the opportunity to consider modifying and resubmitting their games for rating or appealing the rating assigned to our Appeals Board should they wish to do so. We have not yet been notified by Rockstar as to what they intend to do with respect to our rating assignment."

The ball is now in Take-Two's court. According to the ESRB a publisher may either accept the rating as final or revise the game's content and resubmit the game to the ESRB, at which time the process starts anew. Publishers also have the ability to appeal an ESRB rating assignment to an Appeals Board, which is made up of publishers, retailers and other professionals. Brian Crecente

So these people are perfectly fine with movies like Hostel 2 (basically ultraviolent snuff porn) and Passion Of The Christ (basically ultraviolent snuff porn) are okay. A violent video game? HELL NO!! All those 17 year olds and up are clearly going to be harmed by playing this game. The whole reason they pushed for this in the first place is that they know the major companies won't allow AO games on their systems.

[Roxie]

what's ESRB?

[Beowulf]

Entertainment Software Ratings Board

They're the ones who determine what a game should be rated.

[ParryDat]

Game sounds fun.

[Beowulf]

Yeah it did.

[Jetsetlemming]

The latest preview of the Wii version I read said all the executions of your enemies are acted out in real life with the wiimote, and one of the possible executions is grabbing someone's testicles with pliers and ripping them off, with a vertebrae coming with them.
:blank: This game definitely deserves an AO. However, Sony and Nintendo refusing to allow it on their systems sounds like pussy caving to special interest groups to me.
:meh: At least it's not like Europe, where government programs are outright banning the game for sale, as has happened in Britain and Ireland so far, and is sure to follow with at least Germany and Australia.
I'm really annoyed that I'm rooting for a game whose feature list makes me disgusted to hear because of the censorship opposing it. :(

[Angelyne]

Given how much money Rockstar games bring in, I have to wonder how long Nintendo and Sony will stick to their asinine "no AO games" policy. You don't want to piss off your major cash cow, especially when Rockstar could easily sign an exclusive contract with Microsoft (article doesn't say that the Xbox won't carry it) or just stick to the PC gaming market.

Really, the blame lies with the console companies for setting these policies in the first place. It will only hurt them when Xbox takes over the market for Adult/Mature rated games.

[Jetsetlemming]

Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all have no-AO policies for their consoles. The only way you could get an AO game released is for computers or an unlicensed title, though I haven't heard of those since the SNES.

[Black fist]

Ehh Manhunt the first one wasn't even that good it rely only on shock value like grand theft auto but not as good.

[Kaji]

Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all have no-AO policies for their consoles. The only way you could get an AO game released is for computers or an unlicensed title, though I haven't heard of those since the SNES.

Furthermore, Nintendo is notoriously litigious regarding unlicensed games on their systems.

While I understand the frustration from the point that Ao is traditionally reserved for sexual content, it still doesn't change the fact that the level of interactivity of the Wii brings this to a whole new level. Further, games like this are entirely out of the scope of the market Nintendo wants to aim the Wii at in the first place (remember, they're aiming it largely at non-gamers this time around to broaden its appeal. They throw the traditional gamers a few bones, but that doesn't change this fact.)

Companies have a right to project the image they wish to project with their products. Nintendo has always striven to be the family friendly option on the market (Wolf3D on the SNES being so badly censored that id personally commissioned an unlicensed, uncensored parody of it, anybody?). Rockstar, on the other hand, has always relied on shock value and "any publicity is good publicity" word of mouth advertising to get its product flying off the shelves. Nintendo doesn't have to meet Rockstar at the lowest common denominator, however, and I personally am glad to see them sticking to their principles.

[Campion]

Sorry Chaps, that may have been our fault.

The BBFC Banned it in the United Kingdom, it probably has strengthened the position of the 'violence breeds violence' crowd. I know, I know, we're a pack of bastards, first the British Empire and now this.


Campion.

[RandomPasserby]

Sorry Chaps, that may have been our fault.

The BBFC Banned it in the United Kingdom, it probably has strengthened the position of the 'violence breeds violence' crowd. I know, I know, we're a pack of bastards, first the British Empire and now this.


Campion.
I hope that the next time you have tea, the milk has gone bad and you don't notice it before drinking the tea!

[akitaka]

^that's ok. They don't pasteurize their milk >:D

But I'm pretty much with the rating in terms of content, additionally given the interactivity with the wii; having played boxing, I totally jab-cross-hooked my way to victory, and ended up with a tangled headphone and sort arms the next morning.

While this game won't instill you to grab someone's testicles in the following day, it could easily program other, more 'conventional' violent acts (stabbing, clubbing, etc). Muscle memory isn't a thing to tinker with.

Then again if it's anything like wii boxing everyone playing this will be shaking their remotes like a dry martini thus making the argument moot.

I'm not particularly fond of the message that Rockstar brings to games, though. There's less imagination, and more feeding off of the gritty bits of life to make millions of dollars.

[Trump]

Really, you are going to go from Mario Party and Raymans rabbits games to Manhunt? Somehow I don't think it would sell that well anyway.

[All-American Alfonse]

The whole idea of the manufacturers saying "no AO on our machines" and is just piffle. God Of War had an 18 certificate in the UK, with a big red and white 18 just like a DVD on the cover, thereby supposedly making that an Adults Only game by virtue of selling an 18 classified game to a minor being illegal. So where, technically, is the difference? I know that the content on Manhunt 2 is apparently quite sickening, but surely an 18 certificate is just that on any game, not just Manhunt (which ended up not even getting one). No-one stopped God of War, or GTA or an other number of 18 cert games being published.

Like Beowulf said, I find it bloody mystifying that films are being allowed to get more and more graphic and disturbing, but we still have the choice on weather or not we want to see it, but a game comes out with similar content and the same old Daily Mail reading prudes jump up and down and get it banned.

What a load of shit.

[Daishikaze]

I'm not particularly fond of the message that Rockstar brings to games, though. There's less imagination, and more feeding off of the gritty bits of life to make millions of dollars.

I totally agree

[SlickWilly440]

The fact that you can act out the movements of killing people on the wii is a good reason to get the console.....Entertainment at it's best.

Besides just because you can kill a computer generated character with a wii mote doesn't mean it will help on to kill in real life.

[japanat]

The latest preview of the Wii version I read said all the executions of your enemies are acted out in real life with the wiimote, and one of the possible executions is grabbing someone's testicles with pliers and ripping them off, with a vertebrae coming with them.
:blank: This game definitely deserves an AO. However, Sony and Nintendo refusing to allow it on their systems sounds like pussy caving to special interest groups to me. And this is something people want to do? Might I ask why?

I'm not pro-censorship, I just wonder what marketing genius thought making this would be a good thing. "Gee, now they can not only say they'll rip his nuts off, but they can practice, too. That way they'll get it ju-u-u-ust right!"

I happen to agree with you that the AO rating should probably be enough, but I think Nintendo and Sony have every right to determine whether they want their products and brand name associated with such a game. If I were chairman, hell, if I were one of the retail software sellers, I wouldn't get near this game. I (as a businessperson) would have the right to choose which products I would or would not sell. That's my marketing choice.

Besides, in today's litigious US, you know some sick fuck's gonna do this; then they or the victim's family will sue the ever-living sexually-reproductive-act out of the game company, software distributor, console maker, retail seller and probably the delivery van driver just to even it out.

[SlickWilly440]

^
Has anyone ever won money for suing a game company because of their content?

I guess on of the main things people want is for games to be as realistic as possible, and being able to act out killing motions brings that to fruition, instead of killing character with a regular controller.

Besides I heard that one acts out similar killing motions on the Wii version of the Godfather game.

[Kaji]

In the end, when you look at it, how can you not call the method of killing cited above sexually explicit? In that light, it deserves every bit of its Ao rating even by traditional rating standards.

[Beowulf]

And yet ultraviolent God Of War, which if I may remind you, contained a threesome minigame (complete with topless women). That game had more tits then the playboy mansion and more blood then a slaughterhouse.

Rating?

Mature.

Also I don't understand why you all think the Wii's to blame here. If the actual acting out of the killings was the culprit then only the Wii version would be AO rated. The others would just be mature.

[SlickWilly440]

^
Yeah I can't believe that minigame was there. If I didn't break down that screen at the beginning of the game, I would have never played it. Well it's not like they showed what Cratos was doing, the camera just panned to an angel statue peeing water. And the flow of the pee changed from low to high depending on how you were rotating the joystick....LOL

[xinster]

And this is something people want to do? Might I ask why?


It's fun, and generally comical, if not exhilirating to first timers.

I would say that this game may possibly deserve an AO rating, and im ahuge video game nerd. The thing is, there are other games like Fear, System Shock 2, and the Silent Hill series which are scary as fuck and aren't AO. I don't know of any AO-rated game that didn't get its rating because it was basically just pornography including uncensored penetration.

[xinster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AO_rated_products

[Chris]

rofl @ the X-change game. Sounds like that one terrible anime that one user here had reviewed on his blog.

[Beowulf]

There are only two games on there that aren't porn and I own both of them...

Indigo Prophesies was an extremely well made puzzle adventure game that used motion button presses (a la Shenmue and Resident Evil 4) to simulate action scenes. There was no nudity at all which makes me question why its even on the list.

GTA: San Andreas needs no introduction and is only on that list due to overreacting politicians...

I also own the original Manhunt and it is by far worse then the above two titles, yet was deemed Mature...

[haterllnation]

There are only two games on there that aren't porn and I own both of them...

Indigo Prophesies was an extremely well made puzzle adventure game that used motion button presses (a la Shenmue and Resident Evil 4) to simulate action scenes. There was no nudity at all which makes me question why its even on the list.


That is because you have the US version. I have Fahrenheit (the unedited, EU) version of the game. It has two visual (not insertion mind you, but any R rated type) sex scenes and a full nude strip scene/dance (you buy the scene in the game options). It wasn't smut scenes, but when romance happens, it goes down.

Having said that, I still feel it's a great game. Actually, I felt it more a movie than any game (which is how they wanted it to be). So, the game COULD be on there; not under Indigo Prophecies but rather Fahrenheit.

About this rating garbage: someone is going to complain no matter what happens. The reason there are ratings in the first place is because they complained. Now, we have ratings and that isn't enough. Parents need to regulate more and others need to stop getting fussy. A majority of gamers don't simulate this in the outside world and even if you are using the Wii-mote to simulate, personally, I feel that's on Nintendo. The other two consoles don't have this option (in case acting it out was the reason for hysterics).