Cold War 2?

[h2orowe]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/30/wmissile130.xml

Russia: Cold War arms race is starting again


The Russian foreign minister today declared that the Cold War arms race has restarted, 24 hours after Russia announced it had tested a missile capable of breaking through any planned US missile shield.

Russia's new intercontinental ballistic missile takes off from Plesetsk launching pad.
The new RS-24 intercontinental ballistic missile is fired from its launch pad today

Sergei Lavrov said that "strategic stability" was being damaged by America's plans to erect a "Son of Star Wars" shield able to shoot down enemy missiles.

Elements of the system will be based in Poland and the Czech Republic, two former Soviet satellite states.

"I think that those who are professionally aware of this problem understand that there is nothing ludicrous about this issue because the arms race is starting again," he said. "Strategic stability is being damaged."

Mr Lavrov was speaking at a conference in Potsdam, Germany over the future of Kosovo - one of many issues currently causing friction between Russia and the West.

The ballistic missile tested yesterday would be able to "overcome any existing or future missile defence system", Sergei Ivanov, the first deputy prime minister, said.

Launched at the Plesetsk cosmodrome in northern Russia, it can be armed with up to 10 warheads and is designed to evade missile defence systems, the Russian defence ministry said.

President Putin and Mr Ivanov, a former defence minister seen as a potential candidate to succeed Mr Putin next year, have repeatedly said Russia would continue to improve its nuclear weapons systems and respond to US plans to deploy a missile defence system in Europe.

The test missile successfully travelled 3,400 miles before striking its target on the far eastern Kamchatka peninsula.

A defence ministry statement said the missile would replace two ageing ICBM systems known in the West as the SS-19 "Stiletto" and SS-18 "Satan".

Alexander Golts, a respected military analyst with the Yezhenedelny Zhurnal online journal, expressed surprise at the announcement.

"It seems to be a new missile," he said. "It's either a decoy or something that has been developed in complete secrecy."

The show of force came amid tensions between Russia and the West over US plans to base parts of an anti-missile system in central Europe. Russia believes the plans are a threat to its security while the US claims it wants to deploy interceptor rockets in Poland and a radar base in the Czech Republic to counter what it sees as a potential threat from "rogue states", such as Iran.

"We think it is damaging and dangerous to transform Europe into a powder keg and fill it with new forms of weapons," Mr Putin said yesterday.

The Russian president also attacked those criticising him for his record on human rights and democracy. "Let's not talk as if on one side we are dealing with pure, white and fluffy partners and on the other side with a monster that has just left the forest," he said.

Analysts said that yesterday's test may in fact be more closely related to its plans to develop intermediate range nuclear weapons - which it is banned from doing under a Soviet-American treaty. Mr Ivanov said the deployment of medium and short-range missiles by Russia's neighbours to the east and south now posed a "real threat".

"The Soviet-American treaty [on intermediate nuclear weapons] is not effective because since [its signature] scores of countries have appeared that have such missiles, while Russia and the United States are not allowed to have them," he said.

"In these conditions, it is necessary to provide our troops with modern, high-precision weapons."


Hm, I don't really know anything about this situation, but it doesn't sound very good :P I've been trying to keep myself out of politics lately, because I don't want to know anymore, but.. I guess it's about time for me to start caring again D: instead of being all apathetic.

Anyway.. thoughts?

[Kwiz]

Having spotted a couple of news pieces a month or so ago (regarding the Kremlin getting tense about the U.S. missile defense system in Europe), I'm still optimistic that this might be an overblown reaction which will settle down soon enough. Really - when you dig past the politics of nuclear weapons, what it boils down to is the backward and primal instinct to have a bigger, heavier club than the one your enemy possesses.

Especially in this century, we can't afford to have any of the major states in the world doing that.

[Plekto]

Well, Bush's plans are paper-thin transparent. THer's just no way that a Patriot system or simmilar would be useful in Poland to knock down missiles from the Middle East. By that time, they'd be in orbit near the top of their arc.

And.. the systems that they want to put into place are a direct violation of the anti-ABM treaties.

Bush is a class-A idiot. Russia still can kick our asses quite a bit if we get them pissed at us, make no mistake about it.

[whispering]

Russia is a super power, and it just acts like that. China and US are doing the same. For example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6278867.stm

[Jetsetlemming]

That's kinda fucked up to give Russia a pass on using a US DEFENSIVE SYSTEM as an excuse to build a bigger and better weapon. "We can't nuke America no mores! This is bad and everybody agrees, so we're gonna build a big fucking missile". You don't agree with that kind of logic, assholes. The Star Wars thing is purely defensive, and it's the kind of thing that's ANTI-ARMS RACE.
I seriously doubt Russia's missile could do what they claim or that they'd seriously invest just in the opportunity to claim "We could nuke America!". Even a 5 year old knows as soon as Russia, China, the US, or whoever fires one of those fuckers the world's over, so nobody's gonna do it, but Russia's moving towards bigger and better ways to do it and you say "It's all cause of Bush's anti-nuke investments! Motherfucker!"? That shit don't fly.
Besides, Russia is a bunch different than it was when it went by USSR. They can't afford to starve their people or industries in order to have a pissing match with a foreign country.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

The only thing I knew about the Cold War was that I had to read about it in the history books.

To actually live knowing that you could be on the brink of nuclear armageddon must be a pretty freakin scary time.

I know terrorism sucks now, but at least we know that this nation will survive and that we'll survive. The terrorist have no (and probably will never have) capablilities to have massive kinds of attacks on us.Correction: That I know of.

However, when you are close to being attacked by a another nation who has had a long history of having thick skin. I mean skin as thick as a rock. Then you've got some issues.

[Jetsetlemming]

However, when you are close to being attacked by a another nation who has had a long history of having thick skin. I mean skin as thick as a rock. Then you've got some issues.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[whispering]

The terrorist have no (and probably will never have) capablilities to have massive kinds of attacks on us.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suitcase_nuke
In 1997, former Russian National Security Advisor Alexander Lebed made public claims about lost "suitcase nukes" following the dissolution of the Soviet Union. In an interview with the newsmagazine Sixty Minutes, Lebed said:
"I'm saying that more than a hundred weapons out of the supposed number of 250 are not under the control of the armed forces of Russia. I don't know their location. I don't know whether they have been destroyed or whether they are stored or whether they've been sold or stolen, I don't know."

One of those could destroy any given city.

[Minibeefcake]

This is really inevitable as the US is updating our own nuclear arsenal, you have to expect the Russians to do the same as well. Besides, why ARE we deploying missile defense systems in Poland and Czech Republic anyways?! It really has no purpose other than to point that at Russia. Was anyone really surprised how the Russian reacted?

I can only hope we aren't crazy enough to try to up the missile defense even more ... that'd just escalate this into a real arms race all over again.

[Josh]

But if there is another arms race between the U.S. and Russia, think of all of the positive things!

The Cold War spawned some of the brightest people the U.S. has ever seen, and let's face it, we are going through a bit of a brain drain at the moment. Perhaps if our children grow up in fear of Russia we will get back at least a vestige of our former intelligence as a nation.

Besides, our industries might pick up because we can't keep relying on workers from nations which might at some point become hostile to us!

Sheesh, another Cold War is what we need.

/sarcasm.

[Trump]

It isn't like weapons research ever stopped in the US. Concerning missiles, really how special can you make a missile? If you made a better missile, what would be better about it? It could go faster, go farther, turn sharper, and hit better? I mean we've about reached the point of diminishing returns and none of that really gives us much benefit any more.

On the other hand, missile defense still has a long way to go which is why the US has been focusing on that. Though they are currently working on neat systems. Laser technology, improvements in ballistics and short range firing techniques, and other things like that really have come a long way recently.

But again, it isn't like the US has ever stopped its research. Maybe it'll bring about something good like putting more money back into the space program.

[Plekto]

From what I've been able to gather, the missile is shaped and coated a bit like our stealth planes - so that radar won't see it very well and it presents a very small optical target(as opposed to shiny metallic object) Since our interceptor missiles and lasers and so on all have a very low rate of success, this thing being several times harder to hit essentially puts our anti-missile systems back at the drawing board.

[Trump]

I might agree if they actually hit missiles. The current systems just get close and then explode hoping to do enough damage to incapacitate the missile. So if we know the missiles were launched and know where they are going then it doesn't seem too far fetched that we can hit them.

[Campion]

Bush is a class-A idiot.

Normally, I would struggle to disagree with you on this, but were it not an obvious attempt by the administration to help out some friends in the weapons industry (and push along the economy), I would have thought it quite a clever strategic move.


Bush: We're building a nuclear sheild in Europe!
Putin: We'll point all of our weapons at Europe then!
Bush: You mean the ones you were pointing at us?
Putin: Why yes.
Bush: Oh yeah, George Junior for the win!





Campion.

[whispering]

That's kinda fucked up to give Russia a pass on using a US DEFENSIVE SYSTEM as an excuse to build a bigger and better weapon.

Russia is a super power, the fact that either one US or Russia could do so much destruction to each other, kept each other from doing any hostile moves. US is adding a missile shield to "Russias boarder", if it would work, Russia would have to submit to being USA's bitch, or to build better missiles. No matter how you look at it, US caused that and id bet knowingly. If Russia added missile defence systems to US boarder, US would act the same way id assume.


They can't afford to starve their people or industries in order to have a pissing match with a foreign country.

Well, their not, AFAIK Russia uses 10 times less money on military compared to US.

[Plekto]

Russia's response should be "Well, we need to put a few radar installations in Cuba to shoot down missiles from South America".

Basically that's how they see it - we're putting a method to look at what's happening inside their airspace/country right at their border.

Note - this system would work just as well in Norway or Germany or Austria or Greece. Bush *is* wanking their chain and what did he expect for such a blatant move?