Australian pub bars heterosexuals

[羽之助]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6697469.stm

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A gay pub in the city of Melbourne has won the right to ban heterosexuals - the first time such legislation has been passed in Australia.

The Victorian state civil and administrative tribunal ruled the Peel Hotel could ban patrons based on their sexual orientation.

The pub's management said the move would stop groups of heterosexual men and women abusing gay people.

Civil liberties groups have supported the decision.

'Safe balance'

The tribunal's president said groups of straight women found homosexual men entertaining but that such attention was dehumanising, the BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney says.

Managers complained raucous hen nights and stag parties created a poisonous atmosphere for its gay clientele, our correspondent says.

"If I can limit the number of heterosexuals entering the Peel, then that helps me keep the safe balance," the hotel's manager, Tom McFeely, told Australian radio, according to the Reuters news agency.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42978000/jpg/_42978149_feely_afp_story203.jpg

Tom McFeely, The Peel manager, 28 May 2007
Mr McFeely says he wants a "safe balance"

He said while Melbourne had 2,000 venues catering for heterosexuals, his was the only bar aimed exclusively at gay men.

Civil liberties groups said homosexuals should be allowed to relax in places without fear of bullying or intimidation.

Australia's equal opportunity laws prevent discrimination based on race, religion or sexuality.
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Doesn't that last sentence kind of contradict the whole thing? I have no problem with tossing someone out because they were being a prick, but I'd support banning heterosexuals from entering the day I'd support places banning homosexuals; that is, never. Also, I want to know what civil liberties groups are supporting this.

[Roxie]

what kind of person goes to a gay bar speficially to harrass?!

[japanat]

what kind of person goes to a gay bar speficially to harrass?!
Lots. I knew guys who went to the city park which was a big pick-up spot for gays, just to roll them and take their money.

I thought the hotel name was oddly appropriate, though:innocent:

[Vic_Rattlehead]

what kind of person goes to a gay bar speficially to harrass?!

Generally the folk who go there with the intent to get pissed. Upon reaching this point they develop an idiotic urge to show how cool he/she is infront of mates by pushing around a gay chap/chappette.

Get many of em here; but the reason why they normally start all the crap is because they're jealous that the gay guys happen to have drop dead gorgeous girl mates.

I wouldn't know how it would work...on the door, would they ask if you were gay or something? Pretty much a silly law.

I'm sure he will expect his income to drop dramatically!

[Roxie]

that's so crazy to me--to go to some place to JUST to harrass some people who weren't even bothering me in the first place.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

that's so crazy to me--to go to some place to JUST to harrass some people who weren't even bothering me in the first place.

Not really.As I said; their first intent is to have a piss up with friends, like everybody else. But ONCE drunk, they'll behave like plonkers(what a word!!).

Loads of the guys are seemingly insecure too. When they think of a gay guy, they assume they like/fancy every boy. And it seems they go to see if they get lads after them so they can have a brag with mates. "eee, this guy fancies me...har har har" But upon realising that they're not liked, they'll kick a fuss.

[Zslash]

even taking drunken gay bashing into consideration, how do you enforce such a law?

[haterllnation]

that's so crazy to me--to go to some place to JUST to harrass some people who weren't even bothering me in the first place.

Ha, you mean like people who post their disdain for particular threads, in the actual thread, on forums. It happens. Did you see the movie Boogie Nights where they (being two other dudes) paid that male porn star to jack it up just to bash him in?

Yeh, that last sentence goes against the process and probably shouldn't have been put there; that may have been their intent to show hypocrisy without actually saying it, out-right. How are they going to test your homosexuality? Is there a card or a sex test they are going to have to take? :blank: A weird idea, indeed. If the people are going in to bash, you think they care if you ask if they are gay? Hell no, they go to smash, and will say whatever to get the chance. :karate:

[Digital Masta]

even taking drunken gay bashing into consideration, how do you enforce such a law?

You find out their straight and kick them out of your bar.

[Y.T.]

I'm sure he will expect his income to drop dramatically!


Probably not. He'll just use the law to have a basis which can be used to toss out disruptive heterosexuals.

[Roxie]

Ha, you mean like people who post their disdain for particular threads, in the actual thread, on forums. It happens.
That is not even the same.

Posting in a thread, you remain seated. The forum and the thread are made for everyone (here, that is).

You do not get up and walk to a place that was created for a specific crowd just to harrass them.

[haterllnation]

That is not even the same.

Posting in a thread, you remain seated. The forum and the thread are made for everyone (here, that is).

You do not get up and walk to a place that was created for a specific crowd just to harrass them.

Hmm, I guess I will explain what I meant:

You go to the bar to start trouble. You clearly are against the people there, yet you go to bash.

You click into a thread. You clearly read the thread and don't particularly like the thread and where it goes; instead of ignoring it, you go in to say "THIS THREAD IS STUPID, LIKE THE POSTER." On the internet, this is called flaming or bashing. How's that?

You shouldn't be naive and think no one would do this, though. If they want to bash, they'll do what they will to do it. When the KKK have a protest, how many people show up for them? How many people show up against them?

[Jetsetlemming]

From the article it didn't sound like homophobes were rolling up in his bar and making a mess of the place. :blank: Just lots and lots of straight women whose attention for the gays made them feel "inhumanized", which is a pretty fucking bullshit thing to say, really. "Oh noes! Someone's attracted to me I'm not attracted to! HOW INHUMANE!"

[Roxie]

finding someone entertaining != finding someone attractive.

[Jetsetlemming]

That still ain't "dehumanizing".

[Roxie]

Well, that's not for you to decide.
You weren't there.

You, like I, don't have all the facts. So it would be impossible, since niether of us are those gay men to decided FOR THEM if the women's behavior was dehumanizing or not.
Hmm, I guess I will explain what I meant:

You go to the bar to start trouble. You clearly are against the people there, yet you go to bash.

You click into a thread. You clearly read the thread and don't particularly like the thread and where it goes; instead of ignoring it, you go in to say "THIS THREAD IS STUPID, LIKE THE POSTER." On the internet, this is called flaming or bashing. How's that?

You shouldn't be naive and think no one would do this, though. If they want to bash, they'll do what they will to do it. When the KKK have a protest, how many people show up for them? How many people show up against them?
Eh, I don't think you can really seperate it. I mean the behavior is antagonizing in both instances, but it doesn't mean the person who makes the post like that will be the same person to get up and physically go to place to harrass people.

It's not that I think no one would do it, it's just, it's a lot of work to harrass some folks--I just don't get it.

Also, it's not the same as the KKK who spread a message of hate and exclusion during their parades. During those parades, they are brining their message OUT to everyone and anyone who is around. So for everyone and anyone who is around to go and counter-protest isn't the same.

[Jetsetlemming]

I think if the women were doing something actually "dehumanizing", that would be mentioned in the article. It says nothing about them riding the gay guys around like horses, or throwing them in prison camps. Just giving them attention. Excuse me for expressing doubt at such a statement that attention makes them feel "dehumanized". :sarcasm: Really, what was preventing this bar from throwing out straights that are disruptive for being disruptive? Actively targetting people's sexuality is just a tiny bit hypocrticial.

[Roxie]

You think just because the article didn't get specific about what the women did, then what they did must not have been dehumanzing to these men?

Again, you cannot know this and your assumption makes no sense.

I don't know Australian law, but it might've been a condition of the case that they could not say--or it just might've been a blurb of an article that will be fleshed out latter--either way it's shoddy work as the writer should've addressed why they didn't get specific about the accusations.

Btw, harrassment is unwanted attention

[haterllnation]

Eh, I don't think you can really seperate it. I mean the behavior is antagonizing in both instances, but it doesn't mean the person who makes the post like that will be the same person to get up and physically go to place to harrass people.

It's not that I think no one would do it, it's just, it's a lot of work to harrass some folks--I just don't get it.

Also, it's not the same as the KKK who spread a message of hate and exclusion during their parades. During those parades, they are brining their message OUT to everyone and anyone who is around. So for everyone and anyone who is around to go and counter-protest isn't the same.

Well, the correlation I was referring to was that people will go out of their way to express their feelings, if the apathy is beyond repair, instead of walking away from it. It wasn't that a forum person that is a flamer will be the same person who will go batting at someone they don't agree with in reality. You are right, it is a lot of work. Some people are determined and albeit, ignorant. It's a shame, but it does happen.

The KKK reference was meant as in their recruiting mechanism. They spread hate and try to gain their 'army.' In this free speech demonstration, most of (well, at least here) the attendees were those against the message. They heard on tv that there was to be a KKK speech and sent out to protest even though their message is to pull people into their way of thinking. Fights do break out when protesters (though, the minority of the group) go there to start something with a member of the KKK and even vice-versa (also minority, since it ruins their demonstration if their members fight and end their speech). That's the connection there, also. It is a little diluted and I would consider this a reversal, perhaps.

[h2orowe]

JSL, basically, a lot of straight women think "zomglol a gay guy would be my best friend teehee. We can go shopping, and talk about cute boys hehehehe. Then we can talk about fashion and lalalalululu." and while there are some gay guys who would like that, there are a lot of them that don't. They just want to go to the bar and talk with other gay males, but they have straight females trying to be their best friend for no other reason than them being gay (or the straight females watch them because they think they're "cute" with their boyfriend) and straight males going in there and harassing them.

I think the law is bullshit but I can understand where they're coming from. However, it'd suck to have gay friends who you want to hang out with, but you can't chill with them at their bar because of that law.

[RandomPasserby]

What law is banning straight guys from gay bars?

[PopCulturePooka]

even taking drunken gay bashing into consideration, how do you enforce such a law?
Ask them to give the bouncer a blowjob.


Joey those women are called Fag Hags. Some of them really piss me off. They always NEED a gay friend.


Anyway this was on the current affairs radio show I listen to last night. The gay patrons of the bar think the idea is ridiculous, most said they've never been harrassed in a bar.

Other gay bar owners see this guy losing business, one even citing the money he makes from gay guys who bring hetero friends.

[Angelyne]

that's so crazy to me--to go to some place to JUST to harrass some people who weren't even bothering me in the first place.

I take it you've never been lucky enough to have crazy religious groups come to your college campus and harrass everyone? About once or twice a semester, some fundie group will stand out the street corners of my campus and (literally) scream about homosexuals and pre-marital sex all day.

JSL, basically, a lot of straight women think "zomglol a gay guy would be my best friend teehee. We can go shopping, and talk about cute boys hehehehe. Then we can talk about fashion and lalalalululu." and while there are some gay guys who would like that, there are a lot of them that don't. They just want to go to the bar and talk with other gay males, but they have straight females trying to be their best friend for no other reason than them being gay (or the straight females watch them because they think they're "cute" with their boyfriend) and straight males going in there and harassing them.

I think the law is bullshit but I can understand where they're coming from. However, it'd suck to have gay friends who you want to hang out with, but you can't chill with them at their bar because of that law.

h2o nailed it--a lot of straight women go to gay bars and it seems like the men are sick of them interferring with their sausagefest. This is the same reason why the gaybars in my area have "men only" nights during the most popular club nights of the week, e.g. Friday and Saturday, and only let women in on weekdays.

Women don't go to gay bars trolling for friends, though. Gays bars are a good place for a woman to go if she only feels like dancing--better dance music and it's a safe environment because there's no chance of creepy men trying to randomly hump them on the dance floor.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

I find it kind of stupid that girls would go to gay bars because they find homosexuals "amusing".

That's like putting them up as zoo animals.

[Psychochink]

Forgetting about the whole issue of preventing harassment (which is a worthwhile goal) this is complete horseshit.

Asking somebody to leave your place of business because they are indulging in behaviour that is upsetting to other clientele - hey, no problem.

Barring somebody from a place because of their sexual orientation, is simply discrimination. What, because it's being done in the 'opposite' direction, that doesn't make it discrimination?

He'll just use the law to have a basis which can be used to toss out disruptive heterosexuals.

He doesn’t need a ruling/law for that, he’s perfectly within his rights to toss anybody out that’s being disruptive.

Having said that – it’s a private business, and I think he should be able to bar anybody he wants from the place. Hell, trendy nightclubs discriminate against ugly/unkempt people all the time and I have no problem with that. Who wants all those ugly people bringing down the vibe?

It’s just the double standard that pisses me off. What sort of an outcry do you think would be made if somebody tried to bar homosexuals from their pub? I think we all know the answer to that question. There’d be organised protest marches.

Hell, there’s a very well known ‘women only’ gym here that does a lot of advertising about how wonderful it is that only women are allowed there. But the ‘men only’ gym that somebody I know used to frequent (lots of iron, heavy rock/metal music, punching bags, little/no cardio equipment) eventually ended up getting closed down due to constant pressure on the council about ‘discrimination’.

[Hatsumomo]

I take it you've never been lucky enough to have crazy religious groups come to your college campus and harrass everyone? About once or twice a semester, some fundie group will stand out the street corners of my campus and (literally) scream about homosexuals and pre-marital sex all day.

There's a fundie who comes to my campus every spring so he can do the same. He said to one girl who was Jewish that she was going to Hell and said the same to plenty of other people that didn't fall under his idea of Heaven-worthy.

[chad mullet]

I've never met a homosexual [to my knowledge].Like King GeorgeV, I was sure chaps like that shot themselves.