Could an American...

[BeautifulDirt]

My dream since middle has been to move to Japan permanently (more specifically, in the city. I'm a suburban child! I yearn for the city life!). You know, start off in an apartment, get a job, get married, have a family, all in a foreign country.
But the question was always "So...what will I do? where will i work?"
And I decided that I want to teach!
I want to teach English to junior high, high school, or elementary students. But, I've been wondering, will a Japanese school hire an American teacher? Would there be like some kind of special thing to go through? Would I have to be a citizen?

(I'm only in high school, but, I still want to know these things before I go there and everything is ruined.)

Plus, about living...
Like, the moment I get to Japan, would I just go to a place and rent an apartment or should I stay in a hotel or something like that first and look around?


Hmm...maybe before I do that whole teaching job...maybe I should get some other job first so I can pay rent while I'm job hunting...

[OaklandZoo]

Who just dreams about living the rest of his/her life overseas when they are only in high school? I'm sorry, but I doubt you know much about your own country at this point, and I just don't understand why you are already giving up on America. Go to college first.

[BeautifulDirt]

Well, since elementary school, I've always been interested in Japan, and in middle school I wanted to move there.

Give up on America? Who ever said anything about that? I just wanted to live outside the country. I know I'm not the only high schooler whose dream is to live overseas.

[japanat]

You want to teach in Japan? Then find that special someone, settle down, etc. OK, here's the deal:

Get a Bachelor's degree, any major, doesn't matter. No degree, no teaching visa, whether public schools or eikaiwa. Get at least a Masters, preferably in English, Education, or TEFL (Teaching of English as a Foreign Language) if you want to teach at the university level, with any chance of lasting more than 3 years.

Get the job first, they'll usually help you get the apartment, or at least steer you towards someone who can help. As a newcomer to Japan, you will not be able to get most apartments without a guarantor, such as your university.

If you want to teach in the schools, you can get jobs as JET (Japanese Exchange Teacher - see Azrael's articles for enlightenment on that), ALT (basically the same) or contracted language teachers (private company contracts to supply assistant English teachers). You can not be a regular teacher, by law. Only Japanese citizens are allowed to be regular, career-track teachers in Japan's public schools.

If that's your dream, these are the steps you'll need to take; unless you find your dream-mate before going to college. Spouses of Japanese nationals are a different visa, and education is immaterial.

[羽之助]

I was on this track before. Here was my plan:

Go on JET, get myself into the school environment while getting my Japanese up to scratch. After the 3 year period (by which time I would certainly have a girlfriend and on the road to residency), go to grad school here and get a Japanese education degree, then take the teaching exam. By the time that would finish, it would be time to get my new citizenship while secreting the old one away in case of emergency.

It was a silly dream, but what are dreams without fantasy?

[ParryDat]

It's my dream to go over to Japan too,but I don't think I could ever live my entire life over there.Obviously the scenery,the technology,and the food are the thing's that you can't miss,but to possibly be badgered everyday by Police officers,as well as old ladies staring me down everyday on the bus.

Don't knw how long I could cope.

[Masa the Masta]

Would anyone ever recommend living in say, America because of Hamburgers, cheap oil, the scenery and the things to see here? If not, then what makes Japan really special?


Just some food for thought. :watson:

[gentlemanandscholar]

My dream is to go over to Japan to enjoy the green tea and onsens!

Requisite filled.

[Kezurimasu]

Shouldn't you visit a Japan first before you decide you want to spend your life there?
Why do you want to live there? (Just wondering)

[Yang]

wow!


what a rushed decision...

I won't criticize this...

it's of part of a dream...it's nice...i like ppl who has dreams...this one, perhaps seems not to be that hard to reach...

i suggest you to follow Japant's guideline to get there...it seems pretty handy...

good luck dealing with it!

[Roxie]

I'd like to live in London.

[Jetsetlemming]

I'd never want to settle down in one area for the rest of my life from high school. :watson: Even if it was the mystical land of anime and giant robots.

[Plekto]

Or you can do my route:
Get old, dissilusioned with America(Move to Los Angeles first - it helps greatly with this), save up some money, and eventually manage(in a few years for me) to buy a small pace over there.

;)

Okay, maybe teaching while you are young and still naive is better... heh.

[koku]

I'd like to live in London.

London would be awesome.


Fucking expensive, though. I'd like to spend an entire summer in London with a couple friends if I'm ever able to afford it.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

Sod London! It sucks! :P

Northern England is the way forward!

[Plekto]

So... move from a cold, rainy overpopulated piece of urban blight to... a colder, rainier, totally underpopulated piece of rural blight?

Then again, it sounds like perfect ALT training. ;)

[悲しいパンダ]

Um...after reading the first post. The first word in my head was "Japanophile". Just wanted to let you people know whether you care or not.

Also, BeautifulDirt, look at my signature below for an interesting thread by an interesting guy, about things you need to ask yourself about living in Japan.

[Roxie]

Sod London! It sucks! :P

Northern England is the way forward!
You know, I had a Londoner for a b/f once...it didn't work out, but when he came to the ATL, he was amazed that it was blue skies everyday...which I totally took for granted...that is something to think about..

[Azrael]

I'd like to live in London.
One of my good friends, after she left Japan she went to university in London.

She kinda doesn't like it.

[mawande]

I was wondering if the OP had read anything, anywhere on the boards. But since I have to assume what she (presumably) posted is true!

[Scott]

but to possibly be badgered everyday by Police officers,as well as old ladies staring me down everyday on the bus.

Someone's engaged the Hyperbolic Engines..

Would anyone ever recommend living in say, America because of Hamburgers, cheap oil, the scenery and the things to see here? If not, then what makes Japan really special?

Fortunately, it works the other way around... would anyone recommend against living in America because of, say, rednecks, Microsoft, and fat people?

[ミュー]

If you're a really good student, apply to ICU and/or Sophia University like I did. Four years of Japanese university = very yes! Keep in mind that probably less than 100 Americans a year manage to get accepted into 4 year undergraduate programs, so NOW is the time to study your ass off :P

[xanth]

I would have to say that you should pace yourself and visit the country before making a commitment. I don't know your experience, but have you ever lived in a country outside the US before? By yourself? With a less than fluent knowledge of the language?

Some people can pull it off, but it might be better to test the water before jumping in.

[Oosutorariajin]

This isnt so silly. I too really want to move to a country, settle down, and possibly find a great wife there while I am at it. I really think that they could use some english lessons there so I might start up my own eikaiwa there! THis is great. Oh forgot to mention...

I'ma go live in Melbourne!!!

(NB: Melbourne is the capital of Victoria, a southern state of Australia below New South Wales where Sydney is located. Much rivalry occurs.)

[PopCulturePooka]

Maybe you should tour Japan with Niki

[ParryDat]

What year are you in Highschool?

[MNJetter]

I would certainly recommend coming here for a couple years first to see if you actually like the country, instead of just what you've heard about it. The passion you seem to be diving into this with makes me kind of nostalgic. I really, really wanted to be an author, from the third grade of elementary school through the first couple years of college. There's a part of me that would still like to.

p.s., to the other vultures out there.......leave BeautifulDirt alone about this. Or at least be nice. It's perfectly natural for a teenager to be this adamant about something like that, and it's not the same kind of unhealthiness that you think of in a "normal" Japanophile who has already had a chance to grow out of that phase.

[koku]

Who are we to judge and say we understand? MNJetter really wanted to be an author, and I am sure no one finds that weird. The guy wants to experience 1 country of hundreds -- I say we should just let him be and elapse his 80 years on Earth his own way.

[BeautifulDirt]

Shouldn't you visit a Japan first before you decide you want to spend your life there?
Why do you want to live there? (Just wondering)

Well, I planned to go on foreign exchange (y'know, just for the summer. Attend school) so I can really see.
Yes, I started watching anime, but I've seen other things and thought, "Wow! This is a place I want to go to!"
I've always been fascinated by Japan and how everything was so different there than where I lived and I wanted to experience that.
I've never been outside America, so every other place seems so amazing to me! But, this is something that I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted to live overseas.


What's the problem with thinking about it in highschool?

[BeautifulDirt]

You want to teach in Japan? Then find that special someone, settle down, etc. OK, here's the deal:

Get a Bachelor's degree, any major, doesn't matter. No degree, no teaching visa, whether public schools or eikaiwa. Get at least a Masters, preferably in English, Education, or TEFL (Teaching of English as a Foreign Language) if you want to teach at the university level, with any chance of lasting more than 3 years.

Get the job first, they'll usually help you get the apartment, or at least steer you towards someone who can help. As a newcomer to Japan, you will not be able to get most apartments without a guarantor, such as your university.

If you want to teach in the schools, you can get jobs as JET (Japanese Exchange Teacher - see Azrael's articles for enlightenment on that), ALT (basically the same) or contracted language teachers (private company contracts to supply assistant English teachers). You can not be a regular teacher, by law. Only Japanese citizens are allowed to be regular, career-track teachers in Japan's public schools.

If that's your dream, these are the steps you'll need to take; unless you find your dream-mate before going to college. Spouses of Japanese nationals are a different visa, and education is immaterial.

Thank you for the advice.
I was actually thinking about doing the JET program when I got older. I wonder, how old does someone have to be to do that anyway?

[Scott]

You have to be under 25, I believe. UNDER.

The general rule of thumb is that you can't do anything without a bachelor's degree, because that's a visa condition. So go to college first... and by the time you graduate, age isn't really an issue. Who knows -- at college, you may meet some Japanese girl.

In college, it's possible to do study abroad... two of the more popular programs are at Nanzan and Doushisha Universities, in Nagoya and Kyoto, respectively. Doushisha's program is called the Associated Kyoto Program.

The JET Program is just one of a number of ways to be an ALT in a public school; there are also other alternatives that are eikaiwa, or English conversation... business/schools. You can look at the jobs thread that's stickied for more information.

Generally speaking, it doesn't matter how young you are as long as you have a degree. I was 20 when I started applying places, and I'm 21 now. Most places would prefer someone younger for 'culture', but older people have been hired.

[BeautifulDirt]

Well...maybe I'll meet a Japanese guy...(it's okay...how would you have known that I'm not into girls too? I don't really talk about myself. Atashi wa onna no ko desu yo!)

(I think I may have to delay France for another time...my orginal plan was to visit Japan in high school and France in college, but, it can wait. I'll go to Paris for my honeymoon)

I'll have to hope that a college in state would allow me to do those kinds of things (I remember speaking with someone about my future career plans and they said that the school would allow me to study abroad) since going out of state is more expensive.

JET places people in like, elementary to high school? That would be cool. I really would like to teach kids.

[Scott]

Most colleges do allow you to study abroad, it's just that they have different programs. AKP is actually a limited group of schools, so you'd have to go to one of the schools in the program to participle... though you could do it without being in the program, it's just harder. What state do you live in?

Yeah, ALTs are placed in public schools, so it's elementary, middle/junior high, and high school. Usually they're on a rotating schedule at a couple of schools.

You could also do several study abroads in college since they're usually a semester. AKP is kind of unique in that it's a full year.

[BeautifulDirt]

I was actually thinking of doing it twice in college (once in Japan, once in France -since I told my French teacher I would go to France in college. I've spent 2 years studying French, I've gotta use it at some point!), but, it seems so expensive. (I've started worrying about what my financial situation might be in college since my teacher said that was the poorest time of his life)

Oh, I almost forgot to mention. I live in Virginia.

You know...I've started thinking. A while ago, my mother suggested that I should major in business, minor in Japanese, move to Japan and work for a big company (but I never knew what exactly to do in that...I'll ask her). Though, I think that sounds like a pretty awesome idea.

[羽之助]

You have to be under 25, I believe. UNDER.

be under forty years of age

http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/aspiring/eligibility.html

You want to know a sure-fire way of living in Japan with a "real" job? Start studying finance and banking in addition to Japanese.

[Scott]

Virginia's not a bad place for colleges. A double major is perfectly acceptable and doable, though in your situation, most people would probably do international relations/Japanese. Business/Japanese is workable too.

Banks in the NJ/NY area often have Japanese branches... or are branches of Japanese banks, good work experience and they take summer interns who are in college.

Study abroad usually takes a bit of money, yes... you have to pay for airfare and your 'fun' expenses, but that's usually solved by being a little prudent... and having a part-time job during school and a full-time in the summer. Other stuff generally comes out of your normal tuition.

[BeautifulDirt]

Maybe I could do the JET program after I get after college, and then get to my business job? (sorry if that sounds kind of childish. I don't know anything about that kind of thing)
I would take the business related classes at my school, but, my schedule for next year is full already...

[羽之助]

I did a year of study in Japan on government scholarship. You could see if any of the institutions in your area have something like that.

[Scott]

It's a good an idea as any, especially since JET pays your fare and you get to ease into life in Japan with support.

[jindojim]

Why the fuck are people coddling this girl's dreams? What happened to the days when everyone mocked people who posted about wanting to suddenly move to Japan?

Where's Chinpokomon w/ his Japantasyland badge...?

And why are those darn kids still listening to that awful rock and roll music?

Point is, you have no idea what you're talking about kid. Explore the culture. Make an educated decision. Put DOWN that anime. And take time to find out what your real options are. Take it easy anyway. You don't want to rush into something that you may really regret down the road.

EDIT: Changed the gender. I'm not changing anything else though. If she is just starting to look into the JET Programme, she obviously hasn't been looking into things enough to make a statement about moving to Japan permanently. Most of these adolescent dreams never manage to really come into fruition. Best to just nip the sprout before it really has a chance to grow.

[Oosutorariajin]

I regret eating all that cake on my 15th birthday. Take jindojimmys advice, I coulda done some things different.

PSST - Keep dreamin' cause if you reach for the stars but only get up everest you have still been higher than most!

[Crowley]

Where the hell is the japhantasy badge?

[4letterwords]

Why is it that every person who wants to move to Japan without ever having been there says something like "Well... YES I love Anime but still... that's just a coincidence it has nothing to do with this totally rational statement I'm making".

I smell correlation. :watson:

[gentlemanandscholar]

Why is it that every person who wants to move to Japan without ever having been there says something like "Well... YES I love Anime but still... that's just a coincidence it has nothing to do with this totally rational statement I'm making".

I smell correlation. :watson:

Well the interest usually has to start somewhere, right? Personally I've mostly grown out of the cartoons (save for One Piece and Shin-chan), but I know many people who watch them but are very level-headed when it comes to understanding the realities of Japan.

[Jetsetlemming]

Eh. A goal is good. And if she takes the advice in this thread at the very least she'll end up with a degree. :watson:

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

Why is it that every person who wants to move to Japan without ever having been there says something like "Well... YES I love Anime but still... that's just a coincidence it has nothing to do with this totally rational statement I'm making".

I smell correlation. :watson:


Well, anime and manga and the like are easily accessible, and do give "somewhat" of a look into Japanese culture. Other than completely bastardized Hollywood movies about Japan (The Last Samurai, Memoirs of a Geisha), Americans don't really get to see much Japanese culture in mainstream media.

Not gonna lie, I became interested in Japan when I was little after watching Sailor Moon. Then when I was 12 my dad took me to Singapore with him on a business trip, and I got to experience all kinds of different Asian culture in real life. When I got back, I started reading books about Japan, watching shows on the History Channel, etc. Then I outgrew anime towards the beginning of high school and just started liking Japan for Japan.

[koku]

Why the fuck are people coddling this girl's dreams? What happened to the days when everyone mocked people who posted about wanting to suddenly move to Japan?

Where's Chinpokomon w/ his Japantasyland badge...?

And why are those darn kids still listening to that awful rock and roll music?

Point is, you have no idea what you're talking about kid. Explore the culture. Make an educated decision. Put DOWN that anime. And take time to find out what your real options are. Take it easy anyway. You don't want to rush into something that you may really regret down the road.

:rofl::rofl::clap:

That was just amazing.

[Roxie]

Kids have it too easy these days. Rows full of manga at the bookstores...anime on wb and cartoon network.

Back in 1997, you had to catch anime on late night on the sci-fi channel..don't know what night, it seemed to change. You had to order manga from different book stores, only to go back and see that one shelf of manga hadn't changed in three months. That or go to a comic book store (not prevelant in my area) and spend the $20 you have on tiny comic book style mangas that wouldn't last you the afternoon.

In order to see Sailor Moon, i had to tape it--on VHS. None of this "on demand" stuff.

[Jetsetlemming]

I remember Sci Fi used to have a "Saturday Anime" block in the mornings. :watson:

[Digital Masta]

I remember Sci Fi used to have a "Saturday Anime" block in the mornings. :watson:

ditto...

Hell I remember the days of VHS fansubs.

[BeautifulDirt]

All I said is that this is something I wanted to do. Then all of a sudden all these people post and crtiticize me for having a dream.

No, I've never been, but I plan to go on foreign exchange to see if it's as wonderful as I always thought it was.

[gentlemanandscholar]

All I said is that this is something I wanted to do. Then all of a sudden all these people post and crtiticize me for having a dream.

No, I've never been, but I plan to go on foreign exchange to see if it's as wonderful as I always thought it was.

It's fine to have a dream, but I think because you said right off the bat:
My dream since middle has been to move to Japan permanently
That people were put off.

Personally I think you should have a more ambitious dream, rather than one that is merely "I want to live in X location". You have to question yourself as to why your dream is just to change your geographic location, and what you would do next as you realized that it's just another place to live.

Why not dream to become a diplomat, a writer, a marine biologist, an artist?

I think the point everyone has been trying to make is:
Set your goals to something that is more of a goal/dream, rather than using Japan as escapism. In almost all cases, people who approach living in Japan with it as a "dream" have those expectations dashed to the ground.

[haterllnation]

I remember Sci Fi used to have a "Saturday Anime" block in the mornings. :watson:

Fun times, those were.

Also, if your local station (normally something like a PAX level station) provided it, Japanimation came on at like 10-midnight EST. It had Fist of North Star, Doom Metropolis (which I found ONE time in a 10 year span...), Lupin III, among others. I used to catch it every Friday night. That was back in early and mid 90's. The extent of my anime anything is from my XBox and Adult Swim (which I don't really watch anymore).

Btw, go for it. If it's what you like to do, go for it. People sit back in life way too much and shit on about could have, would have, and should haves. If you go and realize it's a slap in the face, it's a learned lesson in life.

[Masa the Masta]

(save for One Piece and Shin-chan)

I'm surprised. Guess I'm not the only one.


Atashi wa onna no ko desu yo


I have the popcorn in the microwave. Does everyone prefer butter, because I do. :blank:

[BeautifulDirt]

It's fine to have a dream, but I think because you said right off the bat:

That people were put off.

Personally I think you should have a more ambitious dream, rather than one that is merely "I want to live in X location". You have to question yourself as to why your dream is just to change your geographic location, and what you would do next as you realized that it's just another place to live.

Why not dream to become a diplomat, a writer, a marine biologist, an artist?

I think the point everyone has been trying to make is:
Set your goals to something that is more of a goal/dream, rather than using Japan as escapism. In almost all cases, people who approach living in Japan with it as a "dream" have those expectations dashed to the ground.

I mean, I don't only want to just move to Japan. I want to become a businesswoman and live there.(Since that teaching thing won't work out)
Gosh. Why can't it be a dream to live overseas?
Do people get criticized like this for wanting to come to America?

I'm not using Japan to escape. It's because I've been fasctinated by the culture and learning the language for a few years now.

Really. What is wrong with having a dream? What is wrong with wanting to do something and thinking about it at a young age? I like to have things done WAY ahead of time so I can know what to do and have a backup plan if it doesn't work out. I mean, I've been trying to decide what college I want to go to since I was in 7th grade. Why is it so wrong to plan a move so early?
I hear people saying all the time
"I want to move to New York"
"I want to move to California"
And they don't get criticized about it. But, if someone wants to move out of the country, all of a sudden it's stupid? Noone I know has criticized me about that. Noone has said
"No, you can't do that."
"It's not realisitic"
I was told a long time ago never to abandon my dreams and I wont.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I mean, I don't only want to just move to Japan. I want to become a businesswoman and live there.(Since that teaching thing won't work out)
Gosh. Why can't it be a dream to live overseas?
Do people get criticized like this for wanting to come to America?

I'm not using Japan to escape. It's because I've been fasctinated by the culture and learning the language for a few years now.

Really. What is wrong with having a dream? What is wrong with wanting to do something and thinking about it at a young age? I like to have things done WAY ahead of time so I can know what to do and have a backup plan if it doesn't work out. I mean, I've been trying to decide what college I want to go to since I was in 7th grade. Why is it so wrong to plan a move so early?
I hear people saying all the time
"I want to move to New York"
"I want to move to California"
And they don't get criticized about it. But, if someone wants to move out of the country, all of a sudden it's stupid? Noone I know has criticized me about that. Noone has said
"No, you can't do that."
"It's not realisitic"
I was told a long time ago never to abandon my dreams and I wont.

Japan is not America. America is a lot more accepting to foreigners. You have to jump through a ring of fire just to become a naturalized citizen, much less to be accepted on a regular basis in Japan.
New York is not Japan, California is not Japan. Japan is very very very different from America. You just can't compare, and if you refuse to listen to some subtle reasoning without my saying "no you can't do that", then that's fine. You'll learn on your own.

[Kezurimasu]

Well, I planned to go on foreign exchange (y'know, just for the summer. Attend school) so I can really see.
Yes, I started watching anime, but I've seen other things and thought, "Wow! This is a place I want to go to!"
I've always been fascinated by Japan and how everything was so different there than where I lived and I wanted to experience that.
I've never been outside America, so every other place seems so amazing to me! But, this is something that I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted to live overseas.


What's the problem with thinking about it in highschool?

While there is nothing wrong with thinking about it during High School, before you think about moving and living there forever, you might want to actually visit first. I hope that your main reason to go is not Anime. Instead of Anime you might want to look into other things, Do you have a favorite aspect of Japanese culture?

[BeautifulDirt]

Japan is not America. America is a lot more accepting to foreigners. You have to jump through a ring of fire just to become a naturalized citizen, much less to be accepted on a regular basis in Japan.
New York is not Japan, California is not Japan. Japan is very very very different from America. You just can't compare, and if you refuse to listen to some subtle reasoning without my saying "no you can't do that", then that's fine. You'll learn on your own.

I'd rather do that than be told I can't.

[BeautifulDirt]

While there is nothing wrong with thinking about it during High School, before you think about moving and living there forever, you might want to actually visit first. I hope that your main reason to go is not Anime. Instead of Anime you might want to look into other things, Do you have a favorite aspect of Japanese culture?


Oh, god no. I don't watch anime as much as I used to. I would never go to a country just because of the shows from there. But you say that like the only thing I know is anime.
Gosh...what do I like about it? I just think the country itself is interesting. Some things I enjoy are the music and fashion, but that's not the only reason. I can't really think of EAXACTLY what makes me say "I want to go to Japan and live there!" But, I've just thought about it for the past few years.

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

In order to see Sailor Moon, i had to tape it--on VHS. None of this "on demand" stuff.

Really? I just watched it on tv before school...that or Scooby Doo if it was a repeat

[ParryDat]

HAHA

The the early Toonami days.I remember some really good anime coming on back then.Gundam Wing and Sailor Moon are the two I can think of.

I remember back during the Midnight run,Gundam Wing used to come on.I heard one of the characters say Damn,and I was pretty shocked.

Those were the good old days.
------------

Anyway,what year in Highschool are you Beautiful?It might be time for me to make my decision sometime soon as well.

[MNJetter]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a dream to go to a different country. And there's nothing wrong with that dream having to do with Japan. Don't listen to anyone on this forum who tells you otherwise. Japan has been a point of fascination in some way or another for me ever since I saw Big Bird Goes to Japan when I was four years old. 20 years later, it's obviously not my main fascination, but it got me here, and I haven't regretted a moment of my time as an ALT.

But don't let it be your only dream. The only worry I would have about your plans is that you seem to think that any occupation would be fine, so long as it lands you in Japan. I would caution against that, and encourage you to go to Japan as a student, and find a job that you really want. Even if it doesn't put you in Japan permanently, it will be much more satisfying than becoming a salaryperson as a compromise because your original idea of being a teacher didn't work out.

But don't worry too much about that. You're still in high school - I'm past college, and I'm still trying to work out what I want to do for the rest of my life. Go to Japan. Study something you're interested in. Put your whole heart into something, and see where it takes you. Life is too short to get stuck doing something you don't want to do when you have the opportunity to do otherwise, so do exactly what you want to do for as long as you can, and always be on the lookout for opportunities that will allow you to continue to do so for as long as possible.

[Masa the Masta]

No one I think is saying don't come. I think they're just putting up a caveat considering they've experienced Japan first-hand.

[gentlemanandscholar]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a dream to go to a different country. And there's nothing wrong with that dream having to do with Japan. Don't listen to anyone on this forum who tells you otherwise.
I don't think anyone is telling her not to come. I surely wasn't. We're just telling her that it isn't anime and pocky all the time in Japan.

I'd rather do that than be told I can't.
Perhaps you shouldn't post on a public forum if you don't want to hear other people's opinions next time.

[japanat]

BeautifulDirt,

If your dream makes you happy, and it's something you're willing to bust a hump for and do, accepting all the prices and hard work necessary, who cares what a bunch of wet willies say?

People here are a bit cynical, because they so often hear the unreasoning thoughts of Japaniacs who think that it is a type of heaven, with no difficulties or problems, with everything perfect and the streets paved with gold. The type of Japaniacs who think that manga is real life, and Naruto is a god. The Japaniacs whom I really can't stand to talk to, simply because I have nothing in common with them at all, and feel like I've fallen into the cult of manga. But the people here are more than willing to give you their advice and friendship if you're not an unreasoning Japaniac.

While you do sound young and idealistic to me, you don't sound unreasoning. If you think life in Japan is for you, then take some of the steps/advice people are giving, look at it seriously to decide if it is for you, and go from there. What motivates you to do so is always personal, always different from person to person. In my case, it was first a dare to come to Japan, the second time was doing what it took to keep an important relationship alive.

My grandfather left his family at age 13, walked across Europe and indentured himself for 7 years to get to the States, and got the life he hoped for. It wasn't perfect, it had a fair number of bumps (drafted to fight his homeland in WWI was a pretty major one), but it left him content at the end of his life with the choice that he had made.

Sometimes important things require you to ignore the opinions of others, and always require that you risk failure.

[TommyA]

To topic creator.

Ignore the posts of people trying to persuade you from your dreams and aspirations.

I, like you, wanted to go to Japan when I was in second grade. My mom HAD a report I wrote back then that proved it. 3 years ago I had my first chance to visit and it was an amazing trip, albeit JUST Tokyo. Now I have been living here for just shy of 10 months, and I am about to start my own business with some partners (computer tech support+music studio + artist development) in a month or so. I came here teaching English for an eikawa, but I will stay here doing what I love, being involved with music and graphic design.

If you listen to people who have been here a while and have become jaded with teaching English and life and Japan, realize that you can do more than just teach English, if you meet the right people, and your life will only be jaded if you aren't happy with work and the people you have around you.

Yeah I have only been here 10 months, but I have yet to have any of those Japan societal problems people mention they have. I feel like I fit perfectly between the foreign and Japanese community in terms of friends (almost a 50/50 split. Close friends it is like 80/20, Japanese). I have made friends with a real estate agent who can help me out with an apartment if I decide to move, with nothing needed from my girlfriend or anyone else. Like I said, make the right friends.

Keep doing what you want and as you grow you will see if you still want it. Japan almost got wiped off my list after I went to Spain, but luckily I made it to Japan and fell in love with it again.

[jindojim]

Okay, so you have a dream. We all have dreams when we`re teenagers who have their whole life ahead of us. Hell, I dreamed about becoming a plastic surgeon and coming to Japan to do surgeries.

And then I found out through experience and research that pursuing my dream just wasn`t worth the obstacles.

You need to figure out what you can reasonably do before you declare to people who live and have lived in Japan that you want to move there.
Just start slow. Ignore all the pictures of interesting temples, tea cermonies, onsens, sushi, geisha, schoolgirls, and whatever cultural images Japanese would like you to paint about them. And DEFINITELY DO NOT BASE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT LIFE IN JAPAN UPON WHAT YOU SEE IN ANIMES. Start with just learning Japanese. Do you think you can put in the time and effort to reach fluency?

Then, can you actually manage to COME to Japan? Not to live, but just visit. Find cultural exchanges, apply to study abroad programs, rob a bank to get money for the plane ticket, whatever it takes.

Finally, can you manage to get a job in Japan?

These things are all possible, but all challenges. And, in the course of doing them, you will certainly make changes to your plans.

And then, the REAL challenge begins. You can, for example, teach English in Japan, even as a permanent occupation. You can even teach English in public school as an ALT.
But, to be a REAL teacher, in a Japanese public school, is pretty much out of the question for a foreigner. I won`t go into the details, but just take my word for it.


I`m glad you have a dream. But, if you can`t do some leg work to find out exactly what life is really like for Japan and look for ways to make it come true, I can say, with confidence, that you will fail. And, even if you do all that you can, there`s about a 85-100% chance that you will fail again.

But I really don`t care if you go pursuing that miniscule chance in search of your dream that you`ll make it as a real teacher in Japan. It`s not my life.

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

Okay, so you have a dream. We all have dreams when we`re teenagers who have their whole life ahead of us. Hell, I dreamed about becoming a plastic surgeon and coming to Japan to do surgeries.

And then I found out through experience and research that pursuing my dream just wasn`t worth the obstacles.

You need to figure out what you can reasonably do before you declare to people who live and have lived in Japan that you want to move there.
Just start slow. Ignore all the pictures of interesting temples, tea cermonies, onsens, sushi, geisha, schoolgirls, and whatever cultural images Japanese would like you to paint about them. And DEFINITELY DO NOT BASE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT LIFE IN JAPAN UPON WHAT YOU SEE IN ANIMES. Start with just learning Japanese. Do you think you can put in the time and effort to reach fluency?

Then, can you actually manage to COME to Japan? Not to live, but just visit. Find cultural exchanges, apply to study abroad programs, rob a bank to get money for the plane ticket, whatever it takes.

Finally, can you manage to get a job in Japan?

These things are all possible, but all challenges. And, in the course of doing them, you will certainly make changes to your plans.

And then, the REAL challenge begins. You can, for example, teach English in Japan, even as a permanent occupation. You can even teach English in public school as an ALT.
But, to be a REAL teacher, in a Japanese public school, is pretty much out of the question for a foreigner. I won`t go into the details, but just take my word for it.


I`m glad you have a dream. But, if you can`t do some leg work to find out exactly what life is really like for Japan and look for ways to make it come true, I can say, with confidence, that you will fail. And, even if you do all that you can, there`s about a 85-100% chance that you will fail again.

But I really don`t care if you go pursuing that miniscule chance in search of your dream that you`ll make it as a real teacher in Japan. It`s not my life.


And...who pissed in your coffee this morning? :gloomy:

She is doing some work to find out if she can make her dream come true - she's learning about the language and culture, and asking people who have been to or are currently living in Japan what her options are. What's wrong with that?

[Masa the Masta]

Maybe this is just classical conditioning.

The Japan-side residents of OP9 are used to letting loose on Japanophiles.


Some new member goes, "I think I like Japan." And everyone is quick to draw, "OMFG JAPANOPHILE, BE WARNED, THIS PLACE WILL EAT YOU ALIVE."


I still wanna go. :gloomy:

[羽之助]

You should read The Blue-Eyed Salaryman (http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/642/books.asp). One important thing is that Japanese as a language is a tool - a tool to open doors, to get people to accept your work even though you (presumably) don't have a Japanese face, to live normally. But one tool isn't enough for a career. The protagonist of the book graduated from Tokyo University's grad school with a degree in cybernetics; Japanese was just the language he used to do his work at Mitsubishi.

Are you still in high school? Do you know about the super scholarship that gives you a year in Japanese high school, one year of language study, and a full university scholarship if you pass the Japanese entrance exam?

[Scott]

That's what I think.

[mikem]

College life in Japan can be supremely awesome.* I've made awesome friends here and had experiences that would be impossible to duplicate without being in a foreign country. Granted I seem to live in a very different Japan than most people on this board. :)

I think around Jr. High is the right time to start thinking about living in a foreign country. There are programs you can do as a high school student, and with the birthrate problem, going to university in Japan is getting easier all of the time. Plus everyone wants a 国際教養 department these days. (Classes taught in English.)

Come join me in Japanfantasyland. Plenty of rooooom!

[EIJI]

You should read The Blue-Eyed Salaryman (http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/642/books.asp).
That sounds interesting.
I just ordered it by Amazon.:clap:

[羽之助]

Coming soon from Amazon: The Black-Haired Revenue Canada Tax Accountant: What happens when a Japanese man decides to work for Canada's largest bureaucratic office?

[daidokoro]

This girl reminds me of me when I was finishing high school. Back then, my friend went to Japan and had a blast, I had loved Pokemon since I was 12, I wanted to try a new language because I was tired of Spanish, and I heard I could probably meet some hot girls there even though I was kind of an awkward dork. So somehow I took all this and turned it into "Yeah, I want to live in Japan FOREVER."

And honestly that level of enthusiasm became VERY hard to maintain for two years of college before I could actually go to Japan. Luckily I had so much fun studying I was able to make it, but I'm just warning you to make sure you are really in this and it isn't a phase, or else you'll pay the price later. I honestly think I was in a sort of phase back then, but luckily my other interests and career goals helped blossom my interest in Japan from a phase to a passion and I haven't looked back since. It just keeps getting better.

So anyway, its great to have dreams. But not confuse your "dream" with a phase, because it can be disastrous.

Also, no offense to the teachers here but I've noticed that those who teach English seem the most burnt out on Japan. So keep that in mind too, dont be afraid to think outside the box with career goals as there's other things you can do in Japan. In fact I would find something else to study along with Japanese. In case this turns out to be a fad and you dont like Japan, you have a safety net. And if you do like Japan you could try and apply your second interest to it. But be reasonable. Journalism, diplomacy, finance, a third language for interpreting and stuff is feasible but plastic surgergy probably isnt.

[MNJetter]

I honestly wish that I'd realized that Japan is a real country where you could go work or learn a lot earlier. I'd always loved the place, but until my second year of college, it was always just this side hobby in my mind, not something I could actually turn into a part of my real life. If I could go back and do it again, I would have realized this back in high school, so I could come here for an exchange program or something, and get my minor in Japanese, instead of filling out my credits and ending up with a Classical Studies minor (no offense to Classical Studies folks. Just not something I see myself using on my career track)

[OaklandZoo]

You know...I've started thinking. A while ago, my mother suggested that I should major in business, minor in Japanese, move to Japan and work for a big company (but I never knew what exactly to do in that...I'll ask her). Though, I think that sounds like a pretty awesome idea.

Instead of the "big companies", just shoot for eikaiwa and JET. You will be competing for these corporate jobs with millions of locals who are better than you in Japanese, more familiar with the culture than you, and don't need visas to work, unlike you. This is especially if you are thinking straight out of college, then you have no advantage whatsoever. But if you are ever going to seriously consider this career path, then I suggest you ditch the business major and just concentrate in Japanese. Then get a job with any company that have business in Japan first, and hope they relocate you over here in like 5,6 years. Corporations can teach you business stuff, but not languages.

[erbiumfiber]

Wow. My dreams as a teenager:

1. Find money for college.
2. Pick college major (engineering) guaranteed to land a good-paying job and be self-sufficient.
3. Get the hell off Long Island.

So. Here I am in Japan. I was raised by a virulently anti-Japanese mother and was further prejudiced by some sleazy stuff that happened with Japanese-origin patent applications when I was at the U.S. Patent Office. Plus, I came of age in the 80's when Japan was "stealing" all our technology and dumping cheap high-tech goods on the market, collapsing U.S. technology industries.

So why have I been in Japan the last four years? And why did I just buy a condo (beginning to have second thoughts about the latter as it is far away but, meh). Well, I found a job here when NO ONE was hiring in America due to the uncertainty of the Iraq war. I have been very happy here and plan to stay for a good long while.

What is the take-home message? Be flexible. You don't know what's coming your way in life. Have dreams but focus on the realities of getting into college, completing college, getting job experience in the summers or during the semester, etc. When you have all of that, the dreams can become a reality.

If you really dream of working overseas, be flexible in your choice of destinations (Japan was not even on the top 10 of places I would want to live overseas before I came here). You can get work in a multi-national company and transfer around. Note that, these days, usually only high-level people are transferred abroad. Make yourself that high-level, valuable employee.

If Jet or Nova or whatever works out, great. But, sometimes the opportunity doesn't come your way and, again, you want to be flexible.

I didn't plan to become a mother at age 24 (finding out I was pregnant 3 weeks before law school began) but it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. I kind of thought I would be the childless type. But I was flexible (like a freakin' rubber band) and everything worked out great. I could never have predicted in my wildest dreams in high school that my life would turn out the way it has (and who knows WHAT will happen in the future?).

So, sorry for the long-winded post and, if you haven't caught the message by now, BE FLEXIBLE. Good luck to you.

[jindojim]

pandaclair: No, I was absolutely fine today. What I gave was straight, to the point advice. And if she thinks that's harsh, then tough cookies.

Mind you, I'm not saying that she SHOULDN'T come to Japan. But, before she really delves into this plan of hers, I'm giving her fair warning that the odds are really really stacked against her... And that's even after she's done all the leg work and succeeded in getting a job in Japan.

[koku]

You know what, though, I bet A LOT if not most of you originally had some experience with anime. And I bet there are a lot of cool-natured "Good Example foreigners" in Japan right now, who originally were interested in the whole anime/japan fascination thing.

People change, and I don't think we should hold it against her. No one comes for Green Tea and Onsens, right?

[4letterwords]

I do my best not to judge people based on stuff like this (lets keep in mind my best usually falls in the 'mediocre' category)... but I just can't put it together in my head how someone could have a goal to live in a country they've never been to. Especially a country like Japan where you're so completely different from the rest of the population.

You never hear people say they want to move to Colorado because they like South Park, to France because they like cheese and wine, or to Russia because the history is 'interesting'. You can't judge a country by it's history and pop-culture.

No matter how many movies you've watched, songs you've listened to or books you've read, unless you go there for an extended period of time you do not know about that country to make such a drastic lifestyle decision. That shows just how immature the poster of this thread really is. I'm imagining she's in high school... I don't know about a lot of you, but when I was in high school, despite spending much of it drunk/high, I did know that moving to a country without any experience with it is well, stupid.

I do however think that the girl who started this thread will eventually get it. Give her time, and she'll get it. We all do, some decide to stay, some don't. But eventually, unless you're some loser guy in the states who loves Japan because all of the 'hot' p*ssy he gets when he's there, you will get it.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Maybe this is just classical conditioning.

The Japan-side residents of OP9 are used to letting loose on Japanophiles.


Some new member goes, "I think I like Japan." And everyone is quick to draw, "OMFG JAPANOPHILE, BE WARNED, THIS PLACE WILL EAT YOU ALIVE."


I still wanna go. :gloomy:

The thing is, we are still like that. In the past a few boys have come here and said the exact same thing and were shot down completely. With much much harsher things said than I or jindojim have presented.
I'm pretty sure because the OP is a girl everyone is coddling her.

pandaclair: No, I was absolutely fine today. What I gave was straight, to the point advice. And if she thinks that's harsh, then tough cookies.

Mind you, I'm not saying that she SHOULDN'T come to Japan. But, before she really delves into this plan of hers, I'm giving her fair warning that the odds are really really stacked against her... And that's even after she's done all the leg work and succeeded in getting a job in Japan.

I agree. I don't see how we are "crushing a dream" because we're presenting a more grounded opinion. If anything it provides information that can be used in preparation for coming to Japan, to prevent that dream from being crushed.
Hasn't everyone come to the conclusion that if you approach Japan expecting things that those expectations will be altered drastically?

words
hear hear!

[Arvynia]

You know what, though, I bet A LOT if not most of you originally had some experience with anime. And I bet there are a lot of cool-natured "Good Example foreigners" in Japan right now, who originally were interested in the whole anime/japan fascination thing.

People change, and I don't think we should hold it against her. .....

Agreed! OP sounded like me when I was in highschool - never knew much about Japan's culture and language, but it had been a dream to come live here! I'm one of those people that interest in Japan was sparked soley on animes and games... and I never bothered to learn the language on my own or during school, and don't know jack shit about it's culture or history other than reading random facts here and there and picking up cultural things from animes. YES. I wanted to go and live in Japan regardless of ever being in here. And you know what? I love it. I am not wanting to be in "the in group" - and I really don't give a shit - but this experience so far as been a good one for me, and I am glad I got this far.

When I was in highschool, I told everyone that I'm going to live in Japan, and stay here as long as the JET program would allow me, and if I don't make it, I'm going to apply again and again till I get in. At that time, yes, I was obsessed but I cooled down tons after college. I suppose I'd be considered a Japanophile.

All I'm saying is - don't get all these "realistically negative/pessimistic" points dampen your dreams... sometimes it's a good thing to be a bit naive and hopeful, because that will continue to fuel your interest in Japan as you begin to find out and accept that things here aren't what you'd imagine them to be.

Having that dream is great - but what's even greater is to know that dreams can change! So even if you reached a part of your dream to come live here, doesn't neccessarily mean you may want to live here... FOREVER!

I say go for it. You've never been outta the country (aside from Japan, neither have I!), it'll be a good learning experience for you, whether you find that Japan is what it's cracked up to be or not. All I do hope for you is that you have the strength to handle your disappointments about Japan and not be all bitter about it afterward! :D

But look where I am now. I hardly had to blink an eye to get in here. In fact, I almost turned the JET program down (MY DREAM!) so that I can stay with my new boyfriend (don't worry, I didn't)....

If you have the passion, the drive, the will. Do it. You may ask for opinions and advice, but don't let them dampen you!!! I never did. I was once in your spot. Now I'm glad I never fucken noticed people giving me weird looks when I said I'm going to Japan! There is nothing more infuriating to me when someone tries to dampen my dreams/goals... it makes me want to work the more harder to prove them wrong!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate, being obsessed, being optimistic, as long as you know how to deal with disappointments.

And you know for all you guys out there that's trying to tell her "realistically" - I say it's not like there's no such thing as being "realistically optimisitic."
Everyone deals with things differently.

Oh... and another thing. About being a foreigner with a "real" job in Japan - whatever that means. I've had friends who are foreigners who started their own business here.... without a Japanese spouse. It's very very difficult, but it's doable. It's not impossible. And I'm not sure, but I would imagine finding a job here is easier than starting your own business ;)

And please. Tons of people have moved to Japan on the JET program, on a whim, not knowing shit about Japan. If you're gonna do it through a program like JET, it's not stupid. It's only stupid if you're planning to do something like this without thought, but the OP seems like she's put lots of thoughts into it, so I believe she will be more than fine.

[jindojim]

Now, for the record, my dream of being a plastic surgeon in Japan was pretty much...well...a dream. That I knew probably wouldn't come true. But, I always thought it would be cool if I could, especially when I was in high school.

That's part of the joy of being young and naive, before you actually start the journey to a career.

So...why am I so eager to crush this dream (and similar dreams) when I had a seemingly similar outlandish dream of my own? Because the OP is more interested in simply living in Japan than the actual job of teaching, whereas I first and foremost was interested in becoming a doctor. To me, it just doesn't make sense how you can plan your life around getting to a particular location, rather than towards a good career.

Furthermore, you now say you want to get choose a career in business simply because it might let you enjoy and live comfortably in Japan more? Bullshit. Locations are locations. Every place on this planet has its good points and bad points. Granted, certain locations are better for your prospective career than others. For example, if I wanted to be an investment banker, I probably would want to live in New York City. But, it seems rather irrational to become an investment banker simply because I wanted to live in New York City, no?

Well, it seems irrational to me. If you KNOW you want to teach English, you should center your future on that. Aiming towards a particular location should be a secondary goal, never a primary.

(I will admit to giving my dream a shot by taking both Japanese and some pre-med courses in my first semester of college, heh. But, the more I found out about Japan, the more I decided to steer away from actually living in Japan. Yet here I am... :P)

[Arvynia]

so... what's wrong with wanting to simply live in Japan?

It's doable. If she's that persistant, whether she finds she likes the place or not, she'll figure out a way.

Shit. The reason I wanted to do the JET program back in high school was because it seemed the easiest way for me to GET IN JAPAN!!! I remembered so adamantly wanting to get in here!! Kinda funny now that I think about it...

[daidokoro]

I didn't mean become a finance person to live in Tokyo, or a diplomat to live in Tokyo, or a journalist to live in Tokyo. I meant she simultaneously should pursue another subject to fall back on in case she didn't like Japan or she lost interest in teaching. Or, if she did like Japan, she could perhaps combine them together, if its workable. That way you can still come out on top of things despite what happens.

[jindojim]

If someone who really wants to go to Japan wants to go, they can do it. It's a doable goal, and it's a valuable personal experience. For that, JET is a great path to take...especially if you don't care where in Japan you get placed, just so long as you're in JAPAN!!!

So, it's very possible to have the chance to live in Japan. And, if you want to do that, you can eagerly set your eyes on JET.

However, she KNOWS she wants to live in Japan permanently, centering her future on that one goal. That's what I find bothering, coming from someone who's never been to Japan. Futhermore, she wants to be a genuine teacher or businesswoman there, both challenging career options for native Japanese themselves, making them almost inaccessible for a foreign woman.

Plan a career with the fact that you want to get to Japan in mind but make that career the center, even if you take time to explore your interest in Japan. You need a cushion to fall back onto if Japan turns out to be far less than you imagined when you finally get here.

EDIT: Daidokoro, I wasn't really referring to your post...except to how you said being a plastic surgeon in Japan was out of the question :P It's rather obvious from your last post that you didn't mean anything about choosing X career to live somewhere in Japan. I definitely agree with you on the 'pursuing another subject concurrently' part though.

[daidokoro]

Ah, right, my bad. :bang:

:P

[Arvynia]

I'm in Japan in the boonies and I'm still happy.

It's her dream to live there... permanently. But like I said, dreams do change, so let her go at it, and she'll tweak her dream and stuff on her way there. I just wanted to defend her cuz I didn't feel there was a need to be so ... pessimistic about it and badgering her down at some point.

I would've bothered you a lot if you knew me in highschool, cuz I was just like her... I wanted to get in Japan and stay here for as long as I can....

But of course now I got other plans! Booya.

[jindojim]

I'm sure we woulda been good friends if I'd met you in highschool actually :P

But we woulda been one of those friends that stop talking after high school graduation, hehe.

[Arvynia]

You mean... YOU would have stopped talking to me after high school.

I'm always the one that keeps in touch. My 'good friends' are the ones always making excuses.... ahh...

sore topic alert!

But your dog is cute though!

[Chinpokomon]

Shit, I ran out of badges...:duh:

[BeautifulDirt]

To topic creator.

Ignore the posts of people trying to persuade you from your dreams and aspirations.

I, like you, wanted to go to Japan when I was in second grade. My mom HAD a report I wrote back then that proved it. 3 years ago I had my first chance to visit and it was an amazing trip, albeit JUST Tokyo. Now I have been living here for just shy of 10 months, and I am about to start my own business with some partners (computer tech support+music studio + artist development) in a month or so. I came here teaching English for an eikawa, but I will stay here doing what I love, being involved with music and graphic design.

If you listen to people who have been here a while and have become jaded with teaching English and life and Japan, realize that you can do more than just teach English, if you meet the right people, and your life will only be jaded if you aren't happy with work and the people you have around you.

Yeah I have only been here 10 months, but I have yet to have any of those Japan societal problems people mention they have. I feel like I fit perfectly between the foreign and Japanese community in terms of friends (almost a 50/50 split. Close friends it is like 80/20, Japanese). I have made friends with a real estate agent who can help me out with an apartment if I decide to move, with nothing needed from my girlfriend or anyone else. Like I said, make the right friends.

Keep doing what you want and as you grow you will see if you still want it. Japan almost got wiped off my list after I went to Spain, but luckily I made it to Japan and fell in love with it again.

Thank you so much. To you and to everyone else who hasn't discouraged me. To people who encouraged me to not listen to some people and to go on with what I want to do.
I don't know why people keep thinking I'm just doing it for anime. "Japan isn't all Pocky and anime"?

NO KIDDING.

My aunt has a friend who is living in Japan right now who I exchange e-mails with and she could probably answer any questions I have as well. ^_^

Before I was thinking of being a teacher, I wanted to study business and work for a big company in Japan, so I'm not just settling for any job.


I don't think it's a phase or anything (someone mentioned earlier...I'm sorry! I forgot your screenname), I've been into Japan since I was like...9? I just didn't know anything about it then but anime (I was even watching stuff unsubtitled for the sake of watching it) and I started learning the language. Later, I started to learn more about it.


For the last time, so noone misunderstands...


IT'S NOT FOR ANIME.

But, I don't really get to deciding whether or not I REALLY want to until after I do foreign exchange.
I've tried to learn as much as I could about Japan (the good and the bad. Never, ever, just try to look into the good). I've read books about people living in Japan, read blogs from foreigners who live in Japan, watched travel shows about (well...the only one I saw was the stuff about various things around Tokyo. But, it was still interesting and let me know some interesting things).

[Roxie]

IT'S NOT FOR ANIME.
It's for Manga and Hi-Chew?

[BeautifulDirt]

You should read The Blue-Eyed Salaryman (http://metropolis.co.jp/tokyo/642/books.asp). One important thing is that Japanese as a language is a tool - a tool to open doors, to get people to accept your work even though you (presumably) don't have a Japanese face, to live normally. But one tool isn't enough for a career. The protagonist of the book graduated from Tokyo University's grad school with a degree in cybernetics; Japanese was just the language he used to do his work at Mitsubishi.

Are you still in high school? Do you know about the super scholarship that gives you a year in Japanese high school, one year of language study, and a full university scholarship if you pass the Japanese entrance exam?


I would study abroad for the year, but, my mother doesn't want me to go during school.
So, I can only do summer programs (I've found one that'll let me attend school)

[Kezurimasu]

You continue to state that you have been thinking about going to Japan since you were a child yet you cannot give a reason for why you actually want to go. "Yes, I started watching anime, but I've seen other things and thought, "Wow! This is a place I want to go to!"

I think this is why everyone is mentioning Anime.

[BeautifulDirt]

(Sorry, if I sound irritated. This has been giving me a hard time.)
Gosh.

Can't saying "it's not for anime" be enough? I mean, it's pretty simple. I've been repeating it because noone seems to understand.
I don't watch anime as much as I used to and I don't plan to have a career that has ANYTHING to do with it.

I'm done now. All I did was ask a question and it just ruined the rest of my week.

[Roxie]

Oh goodness, Beautiful! don't let this little thread ruin the rest of your week.
Hell, it's only tuesday! You've got 5 more days that can be anything you want them to.

Why, If I got down every time a thread didn't go my way, i would've died last fall. It's just a thread. Pay attention to the people who can really help you.

Go get something tasty and watch Gilmore Girls while making a pro/con list or something. You'll be fine.

[BeautifulDirt]

Oh goodness, Beautiful! don't let this little thread ruin the rest of your week.
Hell, it's only tuesday! You've got 5 more days that can be anything you want them to.

Why, If I got down every time a thread didn't go my way, i would've died last fall. It's just a thread. Pay attention to the people who can really help you.

Go get something tasty and watch Gilmore Girls while making a pro/con list or something. You'll be fine.


Thank you...I think. I appreaciate that comment though XD

[japanat]

JindoJim,

I'm genuinely curious: Why does BeautyD just wanting to go to Japan, rather than wanting to be a teacher/etc, bother you so much?

From your posts that I've read in this and other threads, you seem very career oriented, focused on your job prospects and future. Someone with a good idea what he wants out of life, and professionally driven. I envy you. I'm 43, have run my own moderately-successful school/translation business for the last 13 years, and I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up.

Some people do come here for the anime. BeautyD has repeatedly said she's not. Agreed, she hasn't given an exact reason, but she may not have one. I didn't, other than the thought that a year in Japan sounded interesting.

No offense, but it strikes me that maybe you're bitter about something in your life here right now, and don't want her to repeat your mistakes/feelings?:fever:

[erbiumfiber]

japanat- you sound like me- coming here for a while looked interesting (and, in my case, there wasn't really anything coming my way in the US) and then you just kind of...stayed. Of course, you have stayed longer than anyone on the board so you win. (and we're the same age!! I'll turn 43 in about 2 weeks-only my kid is about to go off to college and your kids are not in high school yet...).

Everyone else who is here seems to have been hell-bent on coming to Japan. I guess I had no idea there was so much passion about Japan in the U.S. among young people.

I signed on for at least a three year commitment when all I'd seen of Japan was the airport, a hotel room, and my office (and the office was really, really depressing. Japanese offices are like that. But then we remodelled two years later...). So I don't think it's a problem to make a decision to live somewhere for a while without ever having been there. Permanently is another story...

Oh, and I guess I watched anime, only I never knew it was from Japan. I was about 4 and it was the 60's and it was "Speed Racer" and "Kimba the White Lion." Now I hear Speed Racer is being made into a live action movie. But, alas, no Speed Racer since I've moved to Japan.

[jindojim]

japanat: See, it`s not the part about coming to Japan that bothers me, okay? I really couldn`t care what the reason for that is, even if it`s anime. But to come stay and live here permanently? That sort of decision has to be made with after careful thought and experience.

So why do I sound negative? Because I wish I could be equated to a real public school teacher in Japan while doing my job here, just like her dream, but know I can`t. Not only because I`m a foreigner but because the word `ALT` doesn`t even carry the same implications as `teacher` in Japanese. It`s 外国語指導助手, which basically means I`m a helper (although the city I`m in has instituted a new plan to change ALTs into 外国人英語講師, which is definitely a step in the right direction). So, I`m introduced to the parents after the janitor and the lunchlady, even though I will get to teach my own classes (albeit with a Japanese assistant who still gets a higher ) with this program. I can`t see things getting much better than that though because people who are more interested in Japan than teaching come to do a job that requires nothing more than simply being a native English speaker. I strongly feel that teaching should be emphasized much more than the opportunity to do it in Japan.
I do enjoy teaching and interacting with students a lot, even if I`m limited by my job, and that`s what keeps me going. It`s why I don`t mind the negative aspects of the school culture so much because I enjoy what I do.

It also helps that I know that it`s a temporary job and that I can still focus on getting to a career that I actually want, which is why I`m pushing for her to think about that. I`m a bit down about having to reapply again this year though.

[Cherub Rock]

I caught a bit of Mars Attacks! the other night and since then I've really had a hankering to move there, find a nice Martian girl and settle down. Maybe even have a few kids if we find a way to mate with our incompatible genitalia.

[MNJetter]

.....because the martians in Mars Attacks! are so nice and friendly and inviting....:duh:

[Scott]

I'm pretty sure because the OP is a girl everyone is coddling her.

A few people commented before it became apparent that she was a girl. *cough*

[OaklandZoo]

Before I was thinking of being a teacher, I wanted to study business and work for a big company in Japan, so I'm not just settling for any job.

what's your obsession with working for big companies? small businesses aren't cool enough for you? If anything you have a better chance of getting jobs with smaller businesses than giant corporations, given that you look into the right fields. but you know what's easier? teaching english, or at least that's the quickest way you can get to Japan after college.

note: You will graduate from college in May/June, but most of these big companies you are thinking of working for have already done hiring for that year, and you won't be able to start working until the following April.

[Scott]

Hmm, big companies generally mean better pay, benefits, and stability... so if she actually wants to live in Japan, that's kind of useful.

Also, depending on AP credits, summer courses, and the like, she could graduate in July or December.

[gentlemanandscholar]

A few people commented before it became apparent that she was a girl. *cough*

On the contrary, I looked back and the majority were critical, but once her gender was established, the majority were supportive.

[japanat]

JindoJim,

Thanks for the response. Actually, I agree with your assessment of ALT status in Japan. The way things are now (and for the foreseeable future), ALTing is a dead-end. That's one of the 2 reasons why I opted to take the risk of starting my own school (the other being money, of course!). Plus I ended up with the (unexpected, for me) benefit of having most of my students there because they want to study, and not having to deal with the Sempai/Kohai teacher-seniority bullshit.

But as erbiumfiber said so aptly, there was no plan at the beginning, I just kind of pulled an Ever-ready bunny and stayed... and stayed... and staayyyeeeed.:duh:

edit: Oh, and BTW, I still tell people that I'm leaving "in 2 years"....

[Arvynia]

japanat- you sound like me- coming here for a while looked interesting (and, in my case, there wasn't really anything coming my way in the US) and then you just kind of...stayed. Of course, you have stayed longer than anyone on the board so you win. (and we're the same age!! I'll turn 43 in about 2 weeks-only my kid is about to go off to college and your kids are not in high school yet...).

Everyone else who is here seems to have been hell-bent on coming to Japan. I guess I had no idea there was so much passion about Japan in the U.S. among young people.

I signed on for at least a three year commitment when all I'd seen of Japan was the airport, a hotel room, and my office (and the office was really, really depressing. Japanese offices are like that. But then we remodelled two years later...). So I don't think it's a problem to make a decision to live somewhere for a while without ever having been there. Permanently is another story...

Oh, and I guess I watched anime, only I never knew it was from Japan. I was about 4 and it was the 60's and it was "Speed Racer" and "Kimba the White Lion." Now I hear Speed Racer is being made into a live action movie. But, alas, no Speed Racer since I've moved to Japan.

I WAS hellbent to come in highschool and during early college... but then after I graduated and turned in the application for JET... I was like... "eh... whatever. If I get in, I'll do it, if not, I'll just open up my own business! :D"

[MNJetter]

On the contrary, I looked back and the majority were critical, but once her gender was established, the majority were supportive.
If it helps, I was supportive the entire time. And I think that most of the supportive ones actually started after I scolded the critics for being too harsh, instead of when her gender was established.

[Niki]

Everyone else who is here seems to have been hell-bent on coming to Japan. I guess I had no idea there was so much passion about Japan in the U.S. among young people.

Actually, it's not only in U.S.
from talking with my friends & others, there are MANY Indonesians & Chinese who really have this 'passion' about Japan.
And as 'fantasy-ish' as some of more-cynical guys here would probably say, these people (usually young people) like Japan, because of those 'cool' & 'unique' aspects that other country don't have.
Some like Japan because of its endless varieties in food (also it's very art-sy!)
Some like Japan because of its anime & vid-games world (and let's not forget to mention, the Music from anime/vid-games!)
Some like Japan because of the TV-doramas.
Some like Japan because of the hi-tech technology.
Some like Japan because of the variety of seasons (that Indonesia doesn't have here). They just like MORE variety!
Some like Japan because of its 'endless varieties' that you can almost find almost ANYthing, from country-like view, to metropolitan, to garden, to park, to shrine, to sakura tree, etc.
Some like Japan because of some 'peaceful' areas in Japan.
Some like Japan because of the artists, the pop stuff.
Some like Japan because of the JAV & porns.
Some like Japan because of the 'culture' there, or the 'atmosphere' of life there..
etc etc etc

.
So it's true like someone've just said: People like something, because of DIFFERENT reasons, from each person to another person!

and let's not to forget, there are indeed, people who's more Life-oriented (less serious, more laid-back attitude), rather than work/job/career-oriented (less laid-back, more serious attitude) , when thinking about Japan. These people would come to japan with more kick-back & laid-back attitude, and to really perhaps experience the 'good' atmoshpere while staying there. Not thinking much about big salary, & stuff. It's not a necessity for this kind of people, ..rather than "enjoying Life" , since "life is short anyway".

People are different.
So that's why I don't think it's nice to discourage, especially scorn , laugh & ridicule those people who're really fell-in-love with those things above, and thus they want to come to Japan for THAT purpose ONLY (without considering big-money, big-career, etc). There're Types of people like that. And let them have their own way, while we have our own way.

although yes, I agree, if they want to stay PERMANENTLY,....then they really have to think more seriously & well-planned (don't be too laid-back & stuff. after all, it's a very important decision).

Just my opinion.

[羽之助]

I counted 5 against, 3 supporting on the first page, with the rest neutral.

[Niki]

I would have to say that you should pace yourself and visit the country before making a commitment. I don't know your experience, but have you ever lived in a country outside the US before? By yourself? With a less than fluent knowledge of the language?

Some people can pull it off, but it might be better to test the water before jumping in.

...which is what I'm going to do, from 27th May 'till 8th June! :)
(see my Thread about 'going to japan' ).
at last! I'll have a taste of what Japan REALLY looks like : is it really that wonderful, as many seems obsessed, ..or is it just another 'okay' place? ..or will it prove to be BAD?! ....i dunno yet...but i'll find out! :hat:

[MNJetter]

I actually agree with Niki's big post on this one. People come to Japan for all sorts of reasons, and some people don't go through life thinking about what kind of job they have. I worry slightly when BeautifulDirt goes so quickly from planning to be a teacher to planning to be a businessperson, but that has nothing to do with the career choice itself, as it is that I fear she will end up doing something (job or otherwise) that will lead her to settling for something that doesn't make her happy. She also seems like a perfectly reasonable person, and after hearing her on this thread, I don't think she is so dead set on staying in Japan permanently that she won't compromise if it doesn't meet her expectations, or she can't find a career that will make her happy.

Not arguing with anyone specific on this one, just making an observation.

[羽之助]

She's young, like we all were. I wanted to be a botanist in Grade 5, and a computer store worker in Grade 10. The real reason I came to Japan? I was bored in high school, needed a direction, knew about the JET Programme, and wanted to get the hell out of my hometown. How are my reasons any better than hers?

[gentlemanandscholar]

If it helps, I was supportive the entire time. And I think that most of the supportive ones actually started after I scolded the critics for being too harsh, instead of when her gender was established.

You're always the nice one : )
But actually both happened within 2 posts of each other so it's impossible to fully determine. Most likely it's a mix of both.

I'm sure you can see that OP9 has treated anyone else with extreme harshness compared to what the OP is experiencing. Take Niki for example.

[羽之助]

I think Niki is a girl. For no reason.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I think Niki is a girl. For no reason.

I think he/she has always been ambiguous as to gender. I'm riding this statement 'til the ends of the earth.

[Arvynia]

Oh pfft. I don't give a damn if the posters are female or male, I was being supportive simply because I was in her shoe once. And besides that - she doesn't seem ignorant and delusion as others out there.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Oh pfft. I don't give a damn if the posters are female or male, I was being supportive simply because I was in her shoe once. And besides that - she doesn't seem ignorant and delusion as others out there.

You say that, but it's not a conscious choice as to how we treat others of the same or opposite sex. It's something we're conditioned to do subconsciously.

[stsparky]

What to do after they get their Japantasy Badge anyhow? It's not as if the majority let a bunch of hardened grumps get them down.

[羽之助]

I think you can redeem your Japantasy Badge for a JR Rail Pass.

[Arvynia]

You say that, but it's not a conscious choice as to how we treat others of the same or opposite sex. It's something we're conditioned to do subconsciously.

If you say so.

It's interesting how some people think they know me more than I know myself. Especially when I only started posting on here again.

I assure you. Guy or girl. I would've done the same thing.

[mikem]

I think you can redeem your Japantasy Badge for a JR Rail Pass.

Strange. I traded mine to a giant penguin for a Gold Star.

[Chinpokomon]

Strange. I traded mine to a giant penguin for a Gold Star.
I'll have what he's smoking.

[gentlemanandscholar]

If you say so.

It's interesting how some people think they know me more than I know myself. Especially when I only started posting on here again.

I assure you. Guy or girl. I would've done the same thing.

edit: I should reword this.

You seem to think I was making a personal attack on you. I was making a general statement about human interactions within society which is a basic tenet of sociology. You may think you react the same to a male or female, but no matter who you are, it is not the case.

[Roxie]

i heard there was no mustard or hot sauce in London...is this true?

[羽之助]

http://www.tesco.com/todayattesco/pricecheck.shtml

Matches for both mustard and tabasco sauce.

So no.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I think she meant it saying something about my comments and not literally?

[yakamashii]

Japan has been a point of fascination in some way or another for me ever since I saw Big Bird Goes to Japan when I was four years old.

Word to that! We're off to Kee-yo-toe, Kee-yo-toe, Kee-yo-toe.....

Sorry, I had to.

[羽之助]

My personal pet peeve is when people say Kee-yo-toe, Kee-yo-sarah, or Toe-kee-yo.

[Digital Masta]

My personal pet peeve is when people say Kee-yo-toe, or Toe-kee-yo.

I'll admit to doing that...but only in the presence of non-japanese speaking folk. Should I be talking to people in Japanese or talking to those who know Japanese I change the way I say it.

[Oosutorariajin]

^Same it is logical. It isn't like just just because we have learned some Japanese that you stop calling it Japanese and start saying nihongo because nobody will understand. kee-yo-toe is English not Japanese. What I cant stand is when somebody has learned the language and says 明日、kee-yo-toeへ行く。

[mikem]

My personal pet peeve is when people say Kee-yo-toe, Kee-yo-sarah, or Toe-kee-yo.

I tend to switch the pronunciation of anime, manga, and karaoke between English and Japanese. However, your examples were all proper nouns not just loan-words.

I still say sake though since Saki is my friends name and a completely different word. However, it does amuse me when Americans try to correct me. My new policy is to quickly write down the kanji and ask them to read it to me. :hat:

[Digital Masta]

Yeah...I also forever call it sake

[xinster]

yeah but in japan you still use words like cohii and hambagaa you woiuldn't say the american versions. that's how i see it.

[mikem]

yeah but in japan you still use words like cohii and hambagaa you woiuldn't say the american versions. that's how i see it.

I would never ever say, "Hey guys, let's go get a ハンバーガー.", just because I am in Japan. I suggest you get cultural contacts.

[SumoSamurai]

Thread-starter wanted some of her questions answered and educated us a little about her with some background info. Answer the questions if you can and leave with a smile of good deed. You'll be happy, she'll be happy and I wouldn't have spent all that time reading all the bloody posts, although the criticism was hella funny!!

[xinster]

I would never ever say, "Hey guys, let's go get a ハンバーガー.", just because I am in Japan. I suggest you get cultural contacts.

i obviously meant when speaking to japanese people

[羽之助]

Fumi, in my experience, Hong Kong people will break out perfectly pronounced English words in the middle of a Cantonese sentence. Is this common or have I just met a few special people?

[mikem]

i obviously meant when speaking to japanese people

That would make you look like an ass. If they can speak English then they can understand hamburger.

You only pronounce it hanbaagaa if you are talking to people in Japanese. Not to Japanese.

[Oosutorariajin]

Agreed, It must be thought of as seperate words despite it's origins. I find it funniest when my Japanese friends will say toukyou or kyouto and I have to translate it for the listener.

[Plekto]

My rule, having lived about 80% of my life in Southern California(20% in N. Cal.) is you say as many words as possible properly.

For instance, we have a person at our work. His name is German.(Spanish). About 80% of the office says his name wrong jsut because they are too lazy. If I was in Japan, I'd say English words like English words just like I ty to say Japanese words here properly.

[xinster]

That would make you look like an ass. If they can speak English then they can understand hamburger.

You only pronounce it hanbaagaa if you are talking to people in Japanese. Not to Japanese.

yep

[Chinpokomon]

My rule, having lived about 80% of my life in Southern California(20% in N. Cal.) is you say as many words as possible properly.

Another post by Plekto, another Cali/SoCal/L.A. mention... :frypan:

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

I wouldn't mind visiting Japan sometime. Not living there.

I just don't like the idea of living in a place where English isn't the primary language. Nothing against it really just I never bothered to learn a second one.

I don't know much about the JET program, but apperently I'm on the right track with me going after a BA in English.

I'd also like to visit Australia.

[Fumi]

Fumi, in my experience, Hong Kong people will break out perfectly pronounced English words in the middle of a Cantonese sentence. Is this common or have I just met a few special people?
We do it all the time. Some words are just more natural to say in English than in Chinese.

It's acceptable even in business occasions. For example this is what we once told our vendor in a meeting:

你個proposal fit唔到我哋個budget. (Literally: your proposal does not fit our budget)

I can reword it to 你個建議書配合唔到我哋個預算, but it just sounds very unnatural.

[Plekto]

Another post by Plekto, another Cali/SoCal/L.A. mention... :frypan:

I mention it because something like 1/2 of the population here is first or second generation "from someplace else". So the number of cultures and languages is a bit amazing at times. I try to say words as close to their native way as possible - at least for proper names and such.

As for California, I'm done with it - it blows in too many ways to count. Of course, most of the rest of the U.S. isn't any better - just it's bad *and* too expensive here. Though there are a lot of other cultures, which I guess evens it out a bit.

Currently I'm looking for a job someplace not in Los Angeles. Hopefully overseas.

[stsparky]

... I'm looking for a job someplace not in Los Angeles. Hopefully overseas.

I'm loving being home, I don't mind the Zoo being toast. Some idiot smoker fell asleep in the park and viola! I'll let you know about Culver City CCW permits soon.

[mikem]

We do it all the time. Some words are just more natural to say in English than in Chinese.

At school I hear that a lot. People will use English transitions or slip in phrases that are just easier to say or express the thought better. Of course these are conversations between people who are highly bilingual.

I do the opposite in English to a certain degree. That is I say keitai, onigiri, or any noun where the translation is lacking and/or longer.

Language is just a method for communication anyway. If certain words made the conversation more clear than そのことのほうがいいでしょ。 :rofl:

[Plekto]

I'm loving being home, I don't mind the Zoo being toast. Some idiot smoker fell asleep in the park and viola! I'll let you know about Culver City CCW permits soon.

Heh :)

Maybe I'll spend a few months in Oceanside or someplace simmilar(1 hours south of Los Angeles - near the beach) to try to clear my head. But I know I'm not going to be happy util I'm living in some semi-rural place in Japan. I want LAND darnit! - Like 5-10 acres, even if it's in BFE up the side of a mountain - Though a chunk near the coast of course would be better... (grin)

[Pierrot le Fou]

Japan is not a goal. It's a country. It is a setting, not a destiny.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to visit/live in Japan. However, if your goal is simply to live in Japan you're either far easier to please than I am, or you're lying through your teeth. You could come to Japan because the US wasn't providing a job (like erbium), or come to Japan because you hadn't decided what to do yet (like japanat), or come to Japan because you saw it as a way out of your town (like Hanenosuke) or whatnot.

But coming to Japan just to be in Japan is going to leave you miserable, because it's pathetically easy, and once you've accomplished that very simple task, what's next? Dying in Japan? Living permanently in Japan is simple -- take a plane here (even from a poor country, a few years of saving may very well provide you the funds to get smuggled in), and then jump in front of a train.

Problem solved.

In short, there's nothing wrong with dreaming of going to another country. Making it your goal in life is silly. If you want to work in a big company, great! Get a degree that will let you work in a big company anywhere, and then come to Japan to see if that's the setting you want, then go from there.

And now more generalized prior advice:
So you want to live in Japan? You want to teach English? You want to study abroad? You want to emigrate? You want to make a pilgrimage? There are so many people whose view of Japan and living there is unrealistic or overly optimistic, and so many people who can use a reality check. I hope to provide some realistic information and insight into living in Japan as someone who's done it for a couple years.

Yes, this makes me biased, because clearly I am not you, and my views, beliefs, and notions about Japan have been shaped by my residence and my perceptions before I came.

To help you understand what that bias is, I'll explain first why I'm here.

I have always loved languages. I studied French in elementary school at a bilingual French/English school in the US. I studied Spanish in middle school as well as high school. I have been interested in Japan since the Ninja Turtles and the Karate boom of the 80's, and was egged along through high school with exposure to Japanese games and cartoons, which I had been previously exposed to but didn't realize them as Japanese products.

When I got to college, I floundered around searching for something that would grab my interest, and took a smattering of courses in all subjects, from anthropology, to logic, to higher level math (linear algebra), to Constitutional law and religion. I took Japanese my second year along with some science and more math, to round out the base of politics and science. My second year of college, my Japanese professor changed, and what had been a fun course turned into a boring review of Kanji, and didn't aid me in my goal of conversational ability. I failed and gave up on Japanese. I ended up graduating with a degree in religion and political science.

My first year Japanese professor ended up at Harvard, which was where my house and my job where I was post-graduation. We met up for drinks and dinner now and then, didn't practice conversation that much, but kept in touch because we got along well. I hated my job at the time, working at a tech company doing quality assurance testing for printer software. I bitched to my professor about the job, and she kept suggesting I teach in Japan. Eventually she brought an application for the JET programme, and told me to get it done or else.

I applied, got into the program, quit my job, and left for Kyoto prefecture in August of 2003. I was placed in the same prefecture as Az, and rode down on the shinkansen together from Tokyo, impressed with his Japanese and wondering how the fuck I was going to function with my minimal grasp of Japanese.

I could read kana without much of a problem, maybe about 50 kanji with any competence, and knew a smattering of phrases with relatively poor hearing.

I had very little concept of what to expect, as I knew very few Japanese people, and as I was soon to find out, Japanese people living abroad are quite different from Japanese people still living in Japan. Incredibly different.

I think I'm a rather middle-of-the-road participant in the JET program. Many people come because they have a large interest in Japanese language and/or culture. Many others come because they stumbled upon the program and figured that it was a good way to travel around Asia. Most applicants have very little job experience in the 'real world' post-college. I was neither ambivalent towards Japanese culture, nor drooling over the chance to experience it. I had been once during college and enjoyed it, but lost most motivation with the change to a crappy professor.

So in short, my bias is that I applied neither as a Japanese fanatic, nor as a freeloader looking for an easy job with decent money.

As I said, most of the people on JET fall into one of those two categories -- those who think it's an easy job that will allow them to put off real work for a while and do something fun, and those who have this image of Japan as a focus of their studies and interests and want a chance to experience it first hand.

The former group tends to not do so well in Japan. Most of the people I know who had no interest in Japan, and couldn't speak the language, got out of the country quickly. The job they thought was easy turned out to be relatively boring, and the life outside of their job generally included a boatload of alcohol, and a constant feeling of isolation. That is a generalization, but one that is based on observation rather than assumption.

The latter group tends to divide into several different types depending on where their interest in Japan stems from. The anime/manga/whatever fanatics tend to do the worst, realizing quickly that Japan is not a mecca for nerds and geeks, and that most Japanese people have seen far less anime than they have. They start to realize that reading the manga and watching it here isn't much different that doing the same in the US using their computer.

The people who have an interest in a martial art, cultural property, the religion, the cooking, or some other aspect tend to do well or poorly depending on their placement. Some find that their area has the cultural things that interest them, and let the hobby occupy much of their free time, and find that it gives them a focus for their stay. Those who get placed far away from someplace they can actively pursue their interest tend to leave quicker, or find another job and relocate to some or no success.

The most successful group is probably the people who study the language extensively beforehand, and view fluency and improvement in their language/translation skills to be a worthwhile goal to pursue, and actively pursue it. They are the ones who most often go on to adapt to the Japanese lifestyle best, and the ones who tend to turn into long-term residents. An understanding of Japanese is critical in understanding the society, cultural quirks, and other miscellany in this country without going entirely batty.

People like me, who don't quite fit into either group, tend to end up viewing this as just another place to live. It's just another job. It has its good and bad points, just like the job that came before it, and depending on how rewarding our job is we will stay or go as we please. Some of us study more than others, most of us end up with at least communicative Japanese, and I feel like we tend to adjust better than many other people because of our view of Japan through our own eyes without the heavy tint of perception and expectation to warp what we see.

There are, of course, exceptions to all groups. There are the people like me who blow off the job because they realize that it's not as demanding as their previous job, and end up turning towards alcohol or travel to enjoy their time here before taking off as soon as contractually possible. There are those who come by chance to delay entrance into the real world who find the job rewarding, or their experiences rewarding, and stay longer term than they expected to. There are those who are into a certain cultural property, and find out that the way it's done in Japan doesn't live up to their expectations.

So many martial artists complain that the Japanese give out ranks too arbitrarily and easily, making it meaningless and easier than what they were used to.

And some of the language people discover that Japanese isn't going to net them a high-paying job quickly and easily, and that the effort required to get a job with it is quite a bit more than what they expected, as they realize how different their book learning was from the real deal.

The JET motto is 'ESID' (every situation is different), and while there are broad categories to fit people into as I just did, there will always be outliers. I am not a predictive genius of how someone will cope in Japan, but I can suggest the trends that I've seen.

So now comes the advice, now that I've given some background and information on what I've seen. Since people tend to be piss-poor about judging why they came here, and incredibly dishonest with themselves a lot of the time about what they want or expect, I sincerely doubt that the prior descriptions will be enough to figure out what type of experience you're likely to have. Here is a list of questions I think you should ask yourself before coming, and answer honestly, as well as explanations about why they're important...

What do you want to come of your stay here?

The concept of living abroad and gaining experience with it is a wonderful one which I wholly support. And I believe that everyone who has the opportunity should try to live abroad at least once in their life to see what it's like and to experience being an outsider. It will develop skills quickly that most people will never learn.

However, why Japan? Why here? There are so many countries in the world where you can visit and enjoy. Japan is one that is VERY hard for people from the West to live in, because of the difficult language, the wholly different culture, and the difficulty of fitting in and adapting. While people may talk shit about the French, it is possible to be accepted into French culture and not stick out like a sore thumb after living there for a while. Chances are that you will not be able to manage the same feat in Japan on appearance alone.

So why Japan? As yourself why you want to come here rather than somewhere else in the world. And be honest with yourself, because we're moving on to the next question...

If your image of Japan turns out to be false, how disappointing will it be?

As I said, I support people travelling abroad to learn about a different culture. However, if your entire stay hinges on the perception of the country you have, and whether or not the reality lives up to that image, you are less interested in experiencing the culture, rather than exploring something you think you already know. And whereas that can be fun, it can also explode in your face when the reality doesn't compare to the image you had.

There are many a miserable person who gets to Japan and thinks it's the land of easy women, awesome gadgets, forward thinking efficiency, and then sees the reality not matching up, and finding that everything they were looking forward to receiving without effort isn't going to happen.

For instance, I came to Japan with my contact with Japanese people being solely immigrants to the US from Japan. I spoke to these intelligent open-minded individuals who I obviously liked the company of enough to spend time around. I expected Japan to have a good portion of individuals like this, so that I could have similar friends around me in Japan as the Japanese I knew in the States. My enjoyment of Japan wasn't dependent on that fact, but I figured that it would be a nice bonus.

I was entirely wrong. The intelligent, the motivated, the driven, the tolerant, the exceptional -- those are the people I met in the US. And the average, well, the average is the same everywhere. It took me a long time to meet people here that I was expecting to be quite prevalent. It didn't crush me, but it did change my perception of my first several months when I had few Japanese acquaintances that I could count on as anything more than drinking buddies...

Can you swallow your pride?

This has got to be one of the most important questions for anyone living in Japan. Japanese culture is focused around preserving the 和【わ】 (wa, social harmony), and that means that sometimes you have to swallow your pride and apologize when you did no wrong, or hold your tongue when someone says something stupid, or tone down your argument against a wrong to prevent a friendly meeting from turning into something a little more hostile or uncomfortable.

And it's a hard lesson to learn.

I am a bull-headed piece of shit asshole a lot of the time, and I know it. It's REALLY hard for me to concede that I'm wrong when I can see it as clearly as day. It's REALLY hard to look into somebody taunting me, and lording their correctness over me, and conceding. So when I have to do the same to somebody who isn't even right, it's a real fucking struggle. Swallowing my pride, bowing my head, apologizing for an inconvenience that is not my personal fault is humiliating -- but necessary.

In Japan, so much depends on your social relations and social network. No matter how great your job is, the shit that surrounds your job will occupy a large portion of your time, and most of your time is outside the classroom. There have been so many people who have left due to problems with their supervisor, with their schools, with the expectations of the people above them, and because of their inability to swallow their pride. The people who are the most timid tend to be given a LOT more slack, because they are going to assimilate to the system a lot quicker, or at least not fly in the face of the system.

You have to be able to swallow your pride. If you honestly can't do that, then you are going to run into a brick wall in Japan going full-speed, and it's going to hurt.

How tolerant are you?

This ties in with swallowing your pride in some senses, but in a different way. Japan is an entirely different culture. Entirely different. There are going to be things that you cannot change. You are going to want to change them. You are going to want to take your view of the world and try to shape Japan to it, but Japan is not going to budge if even every foreigner in Japan took that view (and there's not even a chance of that happening anyway).

So you're going to have to be tolerant of people who don't think like you. You're going to have to be tolerant of viewpoints that you disagree with. You're going to have to be tolerant of shit that's said to you without malice but that hurts. You're going to have to grow a thick skin and learn to turn the other cheek. And it's going to suck sometimes. Which is another reason you need tolerance.

You cannot explain so much of this to Japanese people. They are just not going to understand. They are going to take your passionate cries against the system and view them as an affront to them, their identity, and their country. They may be internationalized, have lived abroad, and have experienced some discrimination of their own, but they are still going to have trouble relating to what you're saying. They're still going to shut their ears when you start to rant.

And that's what the foreign community is so good for. That's what foreign friends do best -- let you bitch about a shared experience.

But the foreign community is small. Very small. And unlike home where you can pick and choose your mates based on personality, especially in the middle of nowhere in Japan, proximity more than anything will dominate choices of people you will be around a lot. Tolerance of people you may not even give the time of day to in your home country is of critical importance, because you don't want to drive away your support group.

Sometimes you just need another foreigner to talk to.

What's your goal?

What do you want to do with your time in Japan? The more specific you can be, the more you can pursue an interest, a hobby, or a further career path or study, the more content you will be. Idle time tends to be in abundance when you come to Japan, especially at the beginning. You will find that the flurry of activity when you first come here dies down, and you will be sitting in your apartment wondering what the fuck you just got yourself into.

Finding a hobby -- no matter how inane -- is going to help a bunch. Alcohol tends to be the replacement for a hobby, and causes serious serious problems with many many people here (myself probably included). Without somewhere to direct your energy, you will turn to not-so-healthy behaviour. So find a gym, find a sport, find a hobby, find a group, and get out and DO SOMETHING with your time here.

Study, take correspondence courses, work on becoming a world-class cyclist, get in shape, learn a traditional Japanese art, ANYTHING, but have a goal.

All of the advice given in response to the previous questions culminates in one last question which is of utter and complete importance. If the answer to the following question is no, then you should never ever ever come to Japan for more than a trip, because if you get unlucky...

Can you ask for help when you need it?

No man is an island, standing independently. You will suffer culture shock when you get here. If you have proclivity towards depression or mental illness, you may see it flare up. Every year on the JET program, at least one participant seems to commit suicide. There are safety nets. There are solutions. There are ways out. But sometimes everything just catches up with you, and you think you can handle it but couldn't.

You need to have the balls to say, "I can't do this alone, I need help" and go to counselling, or go home, or do something hard like cancelling your contract and going home early.

Yes, this can be true anywhere you live, but Japan truly is a harsh mistress for many people. The stress of living in a different country, a different culture, constantly being stared at, being talked about in front of your face without understanding, being pissed on at work, feeling incapable at your job, the short winter days, the lack of sun, the lack of people around you that you trust, the distance from home, the loneliness, the feeling of being stuck -- most of us feel many of these, not necessarily that strongly, or all at once, but they are different for every person, and some can't handle it.

Everything is just so different here that a swing of highs and lows makes you feel like a manic depressive without their lithium much of the time. You have a wonderful day where you feel like the best damned foreigner who ever set foot in Japan, when you managed to succeed at a hard task through effort and determination, and days where everything is falling apart and you can't find anyone around you to keep you from falling to your knees and sobbing.

And that is going to weigh on you. And it can continue. For days. For weeks. And some people let that get to them. They believe they don't need help. And then they believe there's no one who can help. And then they kill themselves.

So you need to be willing to ask for help. You need to be able to suck up your pride and say, "I can't handle this." You need to be able to make tough decisions on your own, or ask for the help of someone who can help you make them. You need to be able to realize when you're at wits end and get out of a bad situation. And that means you need to realize that you may have to ask for help. Don't bullshit yourself on this point. One out of 5,000 a year is a lot bigger chance than winning the lottery. It can happen to you. Don't fuck with your life because you have this view of visiting Japan as a life's ambition which is all that matters.

Realize that help is there if you need it and have the ability to ask.

I think Japan is a wonderful country, and I have been living here for over two years because I enjoy it. But it also isn't all roses and amusing anecdotes about cultural mishaps. It takes a huge strain on your mind and on your body if you're not careful, and sometimes even if you are careful. It can be a wonderful experience, but it isn't perfect, and it probably won't meet your perceptions/expectations of it. I can't tell you what living in Japan is like, because I'm still learning more every day. I just want to offer guidance to people who may not look before they leap. The ground is not solid and paved with gold off that edge, and expecting it to be will only cause you get hurt worse.

Don't let me discourage you from coming or let me colour your perception of Japan as a place that drives even the most stable men mad. Please, take some words of advice and ask yourself those hard questions before you make such a huge decision. And take a day at a time. Because life is too short to waste being dishonest to yourself and miserable.

Good luck.
I was thinking about what you've all posted recently, about Japan. I stayed up half the night coming up with witty retorts and then something occurred to me and I fell into a deep peaceful sleep and haven't thought about it since. You know what occurred to me?

You're just japanophile kids. You don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

You've never been out of the US.

So if I asked you about Japanese culture, you could give me the skinny on every blog about Japanese life...Az? You know a lot about him I bet. Job description, criticisms, kanchos. But you couldn't tell me what it feels like to stand in front of 35 Japanese students. You've never looked out into the gaze of 35 impressionable kids.

And if I asked you about Japanese women, I'm sure you could give me a syllabus of your personal favourites, and maybe you've been laid a few times too. But you couldn't tell me how it feels to wake up beside a Japanese woman and feel truly happy.

If I asked you about culture shock you could refer me to a bevy of fictional and non-fictional material, but you've never been through it. You've never felt the pangs of homesickness and shock as you realize that you're not in Kansas anymore, realizing nobody's around to help you in English.

And if I asked you about assimilation into Japanese culture, I may get a Haiku, but you've never thrown yourself into something foreign and truly attempted to become a part of it. Knowing that it would change you forever. That you could lose some of your cultural identity. That Japan is your own personal lesson in adaptation and compromise.

And you wouldn't know the changes you had on the cultural identity of others. To have the memory of you live on well after you're gone. To have the changes you made be there forever. Through anything, through internationalization.

You wouldn't know about interpreting on the spot in front of 50 people, or giving a speech in your non-native language because the words, "I can't do it" just aren't good enough for the people you are trying to change.

And you wouldn't know about real adaptation because that only happens when you're willing to drop your rose-coloured perception and view things as they really are, and you aren't willing to give up that fantasy image that you have.

I look at you and I don't see an international adaptable global citizen, I don't see a peer, and I don't see my equal. I see an anime-watching teenager. Nobody could possibly understand you, right? Yet you presume to know everything about Japan because of some anime you watched. You must know everything about Japan.

You aren't a popular kid, right?

Do you think I would presume to know the first thing about you because I've watched 'Freaks and Geeks?' And I don't buy the want to be here, because you like all the information about Japan you're getting. Personally, I don't care. There's nothing you can post that hasn't been posted by a million Japanophiles before you. Unless you actually listen talk realistically about Japan and listen to the people who have actually been there. But you won't do that. Maybe you're afraid of what you might learn.

It's up to you.

Adapted from Good Will Hunting (http://www.un-official.com/GWH/GoodWillS.html)

[bakagaijin]

My advice..

You're young. You have no idea what you want from life.

Just go. You have a lot of time to figure out who you are and what you want to do. See what's out there! Some time in Japan is far more valuable than going to university with people who more or less think the same way that you do.


If Japan isn't what you dreamed it up to be.. fuck it! Chalk it up to a life experience. Better yet... go live in another country for a while.


Have a look at Robin William's diatribe from the
Good Will Hunting excerpt posted by Pierrot Le Fou. The main point is you don't know shit until you've experienced it. While you may have misconceived notions about Japan, why not go and figure it out for yourself?

That is what travel is all about. You're not a 40 year old "lawyer" trying to make it in a foreign country because you couldn't cut it back home. You're young and trying to discover the world! Your home town will always be waiting for you.

[MNJetter]

Okay, PLF, officially longest post ever, I'm not going to bother with the quoted bits. (not that they're bad quotes....I just think I've read them before)

Japan is not a goal. It's a country. It is a setting, not a destiny.

You're right. Japan is just a country. Going to Japan, however, is a perfectly valid goal, even if you can't picture it as something that makes you happy. Get off your high horse.

coming to Japan just to be in Japan is going to leave you miserable,

Says who? That's why I came to Japan. I mean, I say that I came to test my teaching ability, or to see other countries, or one of many reasons, but when it seriously boils down to it, my reasons were no deeper than BeautifulDirt's, and after two years here, I've never been more satisfied with my life.

Besides, she never said that it was her only goal. Just the biggest one at the moment. You're allowed to have goals that have nothing to do with your career or hobbies.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Something tells me that MNJ is getting a tad defensive.

The OP made it sound like her life's ambition to live in Japan and work in a big Japanese company.

She's a high school student who's likely had minimal -- if any -- experience in an American small company, let alone a massive Japanese one. To suggest that coming to Japan and working in a big Japanese company is one's life ambition when one knows little/nothing about Japan, Japanese culture, Japanese, Japanese business culture, or corporate culture period is fucking insane.

Her goal should be to come to Japan.

Her goal should be to develop marketable skills.

Her goal should be to work in Japan.

Her goal should be to learn Japanese.

Any of these would be goals. Stating that one wants to work in a big Japanese company living in Japan for the rest of her life with the lack of experience, and painting such as one's life ambition is unadulterated fantasy along the lines of saying you want to find the leprechauns at the end of the rainbow and wish for a 12 inch pianist.

It ain't gonna happen.

[MNJetter]

The OP was talking like it was her only dream because it was the topic of the thread. The topic of the thread was an attempt by her to get advice on the possibility of moving to Japan, not to inform everybody of the full gambit of her hopes and aspirations.

I'm not getting defensive, I'm getting protective. I don't have a lot of convictions that I feel strongly about, but one of the ones I feel the strongest about is that you shouldn't stomp on a teenager's dreams, no matter how off-the-wall they are. BeautifulDirt will go to Japan. She might like it and stay forever. She might decide it wasn't for her, and come back. She's a high schooler. However it works out, this is a perfectly natural process.

I guess my biggest beef is that you're responding to her the exact same as you would to any adult. I mean no disrespect at all to BeaufitulDirt or any other teenager on the boards by implying that they should be treated differently than adults, but the fact of it is that it's true. Look back on your own high school years and try to remember some of the crazy things you had dreamed up. Have they affected you negatively?

Dreams are supposed to be a little insane at first. You adjust them and bring them down to reality as you learn more about your own capabilities and choices, but they start out as a general, emotional-based idea of something that you want. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to go to Japan. You have no idea how many times I went to my parents all radiant and excited and declared that I had my life's goals all figured out. My parents encouraged me every time, though I'm sure they grinned behind my back in the knowledge that my mind would change a week later. The more dreams I threw my efforts into and explored, the more I grew, and eventually, the things I really wanted out of life came into the open. But that wasn't until halfway through college. If I hadn't done that exploration on my own, if I had been told that my dreams were stupid, I never would have discovered any of what makes me who I am today. I believe sincerely that if I had to name a single thing that was responsible for my happiness and self-awareness today, it would be the fact that my parents encouraged me to find myself, to try different things, and to always follow my dreams, no matter how crazy they seemed.

It's not about whether the dream itself is going to come true. It's about what you learn while attempting to accomplish it, and how you use that new knowledge to better yourself and your life.



p.s. "12-inch pianist"....heehee :D

[Arvynia]

MNJ took the words right outta my mouth. I agree with her... him. Sorry MNJ, I'm not sure if you're a she or he?

When I was a sophmore, I declared I wanna be the most famous designer ever. I had no clue what the fuck being a designer entailed. I had minimal experience in sewing, etc. And since then, my dream have been altered slightly.

You guys need to chill out on the OP. She's not fucken going to JAPAN NOW... she isn't just gonna up and leave. She has plenty of time to grow and change. And as I've mentioned before that seems to be overlooked by many people: "DREAMS CAN CHANGE"

No offense to you, Pliffy dear - but your words are not set in stone, and other people need to realize it.

I remember when I first got here, you kept on insisting that I'll have culture shock, and it'll hit me really hard. But it never did. I cope perfectly fine. Yes things are different here, but it was nothing so serious to make me feel homesick or isolated.

She has a freakn' goal -she'll eventually work out the details on how to achieve it in her own way.

[Chinpokomon]

That is what travel is all about. You're not a 40 year old "lawyer" trying to make it in a foreign country because you couldn't cut it back home. You're young and trying to discover the world! Your home town will always be waiting for you.

Wha wha what? Please tell me that wasn't a jab at one of the posters on these boards....:bored:

[ミュー]

This has got to be one of the most important questions for anyone living in Japan. Japanese culture is focused around preserving the 和【わ】 (wa, social harmony), and that means that sometimes you have to swallow your pride and apologize when you did no wrong, or hold your tongue when someone says something stupid, or tone down your argument against a wrong to prevent a friendly meeting from turning into something a little more hostile or uncomfortable.

This is arguably one of my favorite parts of everyday life in Japan. I mean, you just don't jump all over anyone and they'll do the same for you in return. I'm argumentative, but this atmosphere is so much more laid back!

[MNJetter]

MNJ took the words right outta my mouth. I agree with her... him. Sorry MNJ, I'm not sure if you're a she or he?
Heh. I'll give you a hint. :) My avatar picture is really a picture of me.

[Plekto]

...or come to Japan because you saw it as a way out of your town (like Hanenosuke) or whatnot.

****
Heh. Or just fed up and decide that you want a semi-rural place with another culture to experience at the same time. :)

Unfortunately, that requires the OP to put in another 20 years or so of 9-5 grinding in a major U.S. city to reach. I also have thought about Ireland and a few other countries that I have either visited or I like the culture. Tried the career thing. Did the 9-5 commute. Have an almost Az-like tolerance for flak and crud(don't think many of us will surpass Az in this - heh) , and so on. Llived in a rathole in Hollywood for a couple of years. Living through major earthquakes? Going through school living in a trailer(whole set of stories there)... Anyplace clean and safe in Japan will be fine. My eyes have already been cleared of any rosy coloring a decade ago. Virtually nothing that most of you consider to be "bad" will bother me.

But the OP is far, far from a "I want OUT" level of frustration to have a plan like what they wrote.

Me?
Mostly, it's because I want to experience another culture before I either get too old or am forced to settle down. That's a perfectly good reason, IMO. Japan seems like a good place to try.

My informal plan: Okay, figure 18 years to grow up. 20 years after than in the U.S.(35-40), and then 20 in another country(55-60), then 20 in another... then retire or go for another 20 in a new place. ;) My inspiration mostly comes from my neighbors across the street growing up. They are wealthy enough but spend their money on 10-20 trips a year all over the U.S. and world. Their house is a rather plain affair, but they love travelling and other cultures. And having practically grown up over there(best friends with their kids growing up), I have itchy feet.

OTOH, the original poster - I'd settle for a teaching job or just go visit for now. I am 37 and I still don't have half of my life together and planned out. When I was in high school... No clue. ;) You have plenty of time. No need to get overkill with the planning.

[erbiumfiber]

Wha wha what? Please tell me that wasn't a jab at one of the posters on these boards....:bored:


Yeah, I just let that stuff kind of float on by. Says more about the poster than it does about me...

[Pierrot le Fou]

MNJ, you'd have a point if she weren't broadcasting her dreams to a bunch of strangers on the internet.

Were she not laying her dreams out there, she may have a reason not to expected to be mocked for them, or told they're unrealistic and/or foolish.

But she is!

So why in God's name should I act as if she's enjoying the rites of teenagehood in her own little private world when she's broadcasting them over the internet? If she didn't want them criticized and/or couldn't take it, then she shouldn't be fucking posting them. Capiche?

It's like an author who publishes a book and then gets all pissy when someone gives it a negative review -- if you were concerned about that then don't publish!

Where has the rationality in the world gone?

[MNJetter]

Nonsense. My life has always been an open book, but the people around me have always been respectful. If they were to offer criticism, they have always done so in a constructive manner, and were capable of restraining from calling my ideas stupid or ignorant or any number of your other choice words.

And this forum isn't "broadcasting on the internet," it's asking a question to members of a specific board. Anybody on the internet can see it, true, but only those of us who bother to sign up can respond to it.

So no, I don't "capiche." I don't see why a person should have the choice of a) keep your dreams to yourself, or b) be ridiculed for them, especially if the dream isn't ridicule-worthy. It's not your job to tell people that their dreams are stupid, and being on the internet doesn't make it any closer to being your job. You act like the internet is a place where people who can't take criticism simply don't belong, and that you have an obligation to criticise everything you come across, simply because you have access to it. Who are you to claim that? It's not your internet. BeautifulDirt has just as much right to be here as you do, even if she doesn't want you criticizing her life.

In general, I do think that people will survive the best on the internet if they have a pretty good tolerance for criticism. But that doesn't mean that you need to go around testing the boundries of everyone's tolerance.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Nonsense. My life has always been an open book, but the people around me have always been respectful. If they were to offer criticism, they have always done so in a constructive manner, and were capable of restraining from calling my ideas stupid or ignorant or any number of your other choice words.

And this forum isn't "broadcasting on the internet," it's asking a question to members of a specific board. Anybody on the internet can see it, true, but only those of us who bother to sign up can respond to it.

So no, I don't "capiche." I don't see why a person should have the choice of a) keep your dreams to yourself, or b) be ridiculed for them, especially if the dream isn't ridicule-worthy. It's not your job to tell people that their dreams are stupid, and being on the internet doesn't make it any closer to being your job. You act like the internet is a place where people who can't take criticism simply don't belong, and that you have an obligation to criticise everything you come across, simply because you have access to it. Who are you to claim that? It's not your internet. BeautifulDirt has just as much right to be here as you do, even if she doesn't want you criticizing her life.

In general, I do think that people will survive the best on the internet if they have a pretty good tolerance for criticism. But that doesn't mean that you need to go around testing the boundries of everyone's tolerance.
Perhaps we view the internet differently then.

I view internet forums as the equivalent of yelling in a bar, a park, or on a street. You don't know who's listening, and you don't know what people will think of what you say, or how they'll react.

If I go to a bar in the Bronx, get loaded, and start chanting, "Yankees Suck" I shouldn't be surprised when I get some not-so-nice responses. No, it is NOT their job to be pricks to me, but I'll be damned if they don't have any right. In the same vein, I see no reason that I shouldn't criticize her for announcing her naiveté publicly.

The difference with the internet is that there are no immediate consequences to make you think twice about doing just that, other than 'mean' people like me who remind you that you're discussing something in a public forum.

What really cheeses me off is not the naive beliefs (though those irk me, they aren't the source of my displeasure in this case), but the rejection, entirely, of any negative views of what she's stating. When you ask for advice, or ask a question, and ignore any advice you don't like, then you shouldn't be asking the fucking question asking for confirmation of your beliefs.

If you don't want your personal life dragged into it, then you shouldn't discuss your personal life. She could just as easily have asked, "Is it possible for an American to live and work in Japan?" and people would have been helpful. I would have been helpful. Instead she said, "I'm a naive bint who has no concept of reality asking a loaded question I only want one answer to and will ignore any criticism of the long personal diatribe I presented which adds very little to the actual answer to the question."

Either you want advice catered to your personal situation and beliefs, or you want factual answers. In the former case, expect negativity and cope with it, realizing that it may be founded in reality, and in the latter case leave the personal shit out of it if you're concerned about what people think.

It's this self-righteous belief that somehow your opinions are to be spared from criticism regardless of merit that pisses me off.

The OP crossed the line between honestly asking for advice, and hoping for reaffirmation of something already decided regardless of whether it's realistic or wise.

Don't ask questions of strangers if you don't want an honest answer.

[MNJetter]

You still don't understand what my beef is with your posts, PLF. You have a perfect right to criticize. I don't even care if you criticize BeautifulDirt. She can use negative views as advice as easily as positive views.

You also have a perfect right to insult people and call them stupid. You have a right to yell at someone in a bar. You have a right to walk up to a three-year-old girl you've never met and cuss in their face. You have a right to randomly flip off the cashier at the konbini as you buy your next onigiri. But would most people do that? No. Why? Because most human beings are capable of exercising the self-control needed to restrain from doing disrespectful things like that. Whether BeautifulDirt's post merited criticism or not has nothing to do with the fact that you don't need to use words like "stupid" and "naive bint." I would expect something like that from a drunk guy in a bar with anger management problems, but not from someone who is as intelligent as I assumed you to be.

I have no problem with your right to say certain things. It's your choice to actually say it. Just because we are allowed to do something doesn't mean we have to, or even that we ought to.

I agree completely that we have different views of the internet. But it does't mean that I have to accept yours. I can't prevent you from saying whatever you want on the internet whenever you want to. But I don't have to respect you for it.

[aargon]

Cause and effect. Just because you can, doesnt mean you should.

PLF doesnt have the right to do shit. There is no right or wrong here.

Get use to it.
________
Yamaha XS650 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_XS650)

[MNJetter]

I hate to be nitpicky with language on forums, but aargon, there is a big difference between having a right (noun) to do something, and the difference between right (adjective) and wrong. You can't have "the wrong" to do something.

Also....what?

[gentlemanandscholar]

Whether BeautifulDirt's post merited criticism or not has nothing to do with the fact that you don't need to use words like "stupid" and "naive bint." I would expect something like that from a drunk guy in a bar with anger management problems, but not from someone who is as intelligent as I assumed you to be.

To be perfectly honest, with the way she reacted to the criticism and behaved within this thread, I think it's merited.

Especially with the way she replied to my initial "criticism" (if you want to call it that) in which I just explained why people were criticizing her. She turned it into some rant about how we were telling her she couldn't have a dream at all. Which is most definitely stupid.

Also....what?
I think what he is trying to say is that people will post their opinions, and so it's futile to try and tell them to stop. You have your opinion that she has a healthy dream and some of us have the opinion that she is a little star-struck. Nothing is going to come of this.

[aargon]

I hate to be nitpicky with language on forums, but aargon, there is a big difference between having a right (noun) to do something, and the difference between right (adjective) and wrong. You can't have "the wrong" to do something.

Also....what?

I think I`ll just shut up now.... :gloomy:
________
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[Arcadia]

Thread was TL;DR, but to the OP... whether you want to criticism or not, there's no way to 100% prepare yourself for a place like Japan. If anything, your experience there will be a cold hard look at yourself, positive or negative. I'm not sure there's a way to absorb every single positive in Japan after spending a long period of time there. But if you want to go that bad, then just do it and see where it takes you. Don't let anyone on this board tell you that you can't. Cause if you don't believe in yourself, then who will?

[stsparky]

Yeah, I just let that stuff kind of float on by. Says more about the poster than it does about me...
I think the hate was aimed at Mike. :(

[MNJetter]

Oh - no, aargon, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. :box: I got the gist of what you said. I just didn't quite understand the end of it. It sounds like you're saying that PLF is wrong for saying what he did, but you quoted me, which told me that you were trying to argue against me. But I was saying that PLF is wrong for saying what he did, too, so I didn't know who your "get used to it" was aimed at.

[Chinpokomon]

I think the hate was aimed at Mike. :(
But mike is neither 40, nor a lawyer...

Anyway, I think 'fiber has learned to not sweat the small stuff. An essential life skill when in Japan.

[darkchyld132]

Hey, wow you sound like me with the whole dream thing. Uh here is something that may help you feel better. I have never done well in school. Most of the time i dont pay attention and it's because it's just not something im into. Well that is until i came to japan. Uh ... i wanted to live here for the rest of my life. Took out my lil handy dandy note book and planed. This is what I came up with.

I need a place first. With out that none of my dream will work. This is when I was dead locked with my first stepping stone. There was no way for me to get a place at all. Then i was like damn it i have to go to school *sighed, school sux* So i found a school to go to. That fixed the housing issue. Now i will find the hardest damn major so it takes me for ever to complete it. Science and technology woot! ^_^ So now im on that road with housing and now i just gotta find my way. Like everyone said and it was good advice. School helps. I will eventually have a degree,job, and wife. So just look at things more realistic i guess. Use school for housing though. It's not that bad. If you get tired of it at least you will know enough japanese to go out on your own. Be prepared to be scared shitless when you are lost for the first time. Just do what i did. Stay calm and when in doubt. Take pictures and try to forget that you are freaking lost and know absolutely no japanese.


Keep in mind it's not going to be easy. I have been here for 1.5 months because i decided to come early and i have no one. Most are scared to talk to me (people talk its just not like having friends) so like i live a life of solitude. I am sure it will change. I do miss joking around about music videos and shiz like that. I think when i get better at speaking japanese this will get better.


Wow i didnt read any of the post til now. Dang wish some one had of told me that it was going to be this lonely in japan lol. Eh im ok with it though. I could always keep myself busy as a child. Here i seem to have gone back to that mindset. I often enjoy just being curious. My advice is not to stay at home. Like explore just go walking around aimlessly. Don't get lost but if you do its not the end of the world.

ok so i can't sleep so imma write some more. I was reading that guys come over here for the girls. Remember that age where you where like scared of girls? yeah im 23 and some how when i got over here i went back in that mode. I don't really care that much because like i guess it's nice........ i dunno what im saying really... I think im trying to say i respect girls more. ... *thinks* yeah.. anyway. Im in shinjuku and its ok. did i mention that Nights alone in japan after watching the grudge is not... healthy? damn that movie.

[Pierrot le Fou]

You still don't understand what my beef is with your posts, PLF. You have a perfect right to criticize. I don't even care if you criticize BeautifulDirt. She can use negative views as advice as easily as positive views.

You also have a perfect right to insult people and call them stupid. You have a right to yell at someone in a bar. You have a right to walk up to a three-year-old girl you've never met and cuss in their face. You have a right to randomly flip off the cashier at the konbini as you buy your next onigiri. But would most people do that? No. Why? Because most human beings are capable of exercising the self-control needed to restrain from doing disrespectful things like that. Whether BeautifulDirt's post merited criticism or not has nothing to do with the fact that you don't need to use words like "stupid" and "naive bint." I would expect something like that from a drunk guy in a bar with anger management problems, but not from someone who is as intelligent as I assumed you to be.

I have no problem with your right to say certain things. It's your choice to actually say it. Just because we are allowed to do something doesn't mean we have to, or even that we ought to.

I agree completely that we have different views of the internet. But it does't mean that I have to accept yours. I can't prevent you from saying whatever you want on the internet whenever you want to. But I don't have to respect you for it.
And you don't seem to understand what I'm saying -- I won't shout down a cashier, or a 3 year-old girl, or most people really. I don't feel the need or the desire, because I know that said person will likely get their comeuppance from someone else in real life if they continue to act like a prick. Conversely, if it's an isolated event, then it's all good because they won't be doing it again.

On the internet, there are far fewer people who are willing to speak up. For whatever reason, the medium doesn't tend to have as many of the loud-mouthed people that will complain if someone is being a prick, and a lot more of the gentle "there's no such thing as a stupid question" nanny types who tend to encourage stupid behaviour.

Perhaps I'm just a prick -- it's a possibility -- but far more likely is that I'm nostalgic for the days when the internet tended to be a medium for discussion and learning rather than spewing verbal diarrhea and getting patted on the back for it. If nobody criticizes people for saying something stupid, then forums like this will degenerate into the RWPW across all the different forums -- a bunch of people speaking because they love to see their own words rather than because they actually have something to say.

Do you really think that the OP was with merit in her ignorance of criticism?

[MNJetter]

I understand all of that, and I'm not complaining about you criticizing BeautifulDirt. She asked for advice, and that includes criticism. My only complaint is with your word choices. You can criticize constructively without resorting to name calling. Personal insults and physical attacks are something that, in my mind, is a tool of those without enough intelligence to use real words and control their actions.

It really only bothers me because I know you have the intelligence. Using words like that just sucks all the merit out of the good points you might be making in your arguments.

[mikem]

I think the hate was aimed at Mike. :(

Yeah, not that old nor rich. I think it was just a general comment since that sort of thing happens a lot. There's a whole word for paid dating ya know ... :eyepop:

Anyway, I freely accept all forms of hate. After all this is still just the internets. :gangster:

[Pierrot le Fou]

Ah, I get it, it's the name-calling and the like. It tends to happen when I don't have time to properly write a scathing criticism without resorting to namecalling, or someone is just too daft to get it. This was the former, not the latter.

It's not like people tend to respond well to my criticism regardless of the language I use, so I don't tend to worry too much about it.

[stsparky]

Yeah, not that old nor rich. I think it was just a general comment since that sort of thing happens a lot. There's a whole word for paid dating ya know ... :eyepop: Anyway, I freely accept all forms of hate. After all this is still just the internets. :gangster:

I figured you were younger than me. :D There was another thread where he spewed at you. Jealous of your mad skills at getting the ladies I felt.

[mikem]

I figured you were younger than me. :D There was another thread where he spewed at you. Jealous of your mad skills at getting the ladies I felt.

Well we are both young in spirit! You just have to be a tad more responsible than I do now. ;)

No one should be jealous of my lady skills though. When I was in high school they were non-existent. Whatever I have now is completely through learning and practice. If you just put yourself out there it really does just happen, but it does take a lot of effort.

[bakagaijin]

Well we are both young in spirit! You just have to be a tad more responsible than I do now. ;)

No one should be jealous of my lady skills though. When I was in high school they were non-existent. Whatever I have now is completely through learning and practice. If you just put yourself out there it really does just happen, but it does take a lot of effort.



The post was not hateful againt you Mikem. I didn't even look at the name when I replied. I was just browsing through the various reasons about going to Japan and your's just screamed "
Charisma Man!"

I have not beef with anyone on the board.. save Meneer DICK.