Alec Baldwin

[Civilization Phrase III]

*cough* Good parenting in action: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003675419_alec21.html
Alec Baldwin and daughter Ireland in New York. In a recent voice-mail message, he called her a "little pig."

LOS ANGELES — As Alec Baldwin's angry words to his daughter were being broadcast around the world, the 49-year-old actor explained himself Friday on his Web site.

"Although I have been told by numerous people not to worry too much, as all parents lose their patience with their kids, I am most saddened that this was released to the media because of what it does to a child," he wrote.

"I'm sorry ... for losing my temper with my child. I have been driven to the edge by parental alienation for many years now. ... I am sorry for what happened. But I am equally sorry that a court order was violated."

The festering bad blood between Baldwin and his former wife, Kim Basinger, erupted Thursday when the voice-mail message from Baldwin to his daughter was made public.

On the recording, Baldwin can be heard berating Ireland, 11: "You are a rude, thoughtless little pig."

He also says, "You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being," apparently upset that she did not answer her phone for a planned call.

"I don't give a damn that you're 12 years old, or 11 years old, or that you're a child, or that your mother is a thoughtless pain ... who doesn't care about what you do as far as I'm concerned. You have humiliated me for the last time with this phone."

He goes on to say that he plans to fly from New York to Los Angeles "for the day just to straighten you out on this issue."

The recording was published Thursday by celebrity news site TMZ.com, which said the call was placed April 11.

Baldwin and Basinger have been engaged in bitter custody disputes over Ireland since the couple divorced in 2002.
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"In such public cases, your opponents attempt to take a picture of you on your worst day and insist that this is who you are as a person," Baldwin wrote. "Outside the doors of divorce court, I have friends, I have respect from people I work with and I have a normal relationship with my daughter."

Baldwin's attorney, Vicki Greene, said she filed a court order Friday "to determine how the tape got leaked and to determine whether actions should be taken against Kim Basinger, or her attorneys, or Harvey Levin (who runs TMZ.com) and anybody else associated with the leaking of the tape and the violation of the court orders to keep the proceedings closed."

Basinger's spokeswoman had no comment Friday.

I don't want to see his movies ever again.

[Citizen]

As always, I find myself asking the same question that I always do when I see something like this. "Who gives a flying fuck?". Any parent who claims that they've never snapped at their child is either A) The parent of a newborn baby, or B) Lying.

It pains me every time I see something like this treated as news. We shouldn't give a shit about other people's personal calls in the first place, even if they are full of lullz.

[TygressVirgo]

I don't blame him, it sounds like the mother might be keeping the daughter away from talking to her father. Situations like that are horrible for both the parent involved and the child.

every parent will lose their temper with their children.

[xinster]

departed was mad good

[smokingmonkee]

Why is this even released to the media?

[Jetsetlemming]

As far as I can guess, either Basinger herself released it in secret to shame Baldwin and win permanent custody and take away his visitation rights, or it was "shared" somewhere along the line after she sent a copy to the court handling their custody fights.
Either way, both of them are shitty.
This is hardly a reason to not watch a movie with Alec Baldwin in it, though. Who gives a fuck about someone's personal life when they're playing a character?

[Roxie]

Any parent who claims that they've never snapped at their child is either A) The parent of a newborn baby, or B) Lying.

I'm sorry, but that is total crap. My parents have NEVER snapped at me nor my sister, or any other child like that. Not even my nephew..and he's tough to handle..They have never called me names or insulted my humanity, nor have they ever insulted one another.

No one should ever talk to a child that way. There are much better ways of handling a situation than to literally dehumanize and purposefully tear down their self-esteem like that. That's just horrible.

[Daishikaze]

No one should talk to a child that way, but people do, its a sad fact. My Father said alot worse to us, I wouldn't repeat in polite company what my father used to call us sometimes. So Baldwin is already better than my dad, at least he didn't use profanity

[Civilization Phrase III]

You guys are underestimating what he did.

Calling an 11 year old a PIG and telling her she doesn't deserve to live is completely out of line. Especially from someone who is in the limelight like Baldwin for being a movie star. Some people idolize him.

What a child abuser.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I'm sorry, but that is total crap. My parents have NEVER snapped at me nor my sister, or any other child like that. Not even my nephew..and he's tough to handle..They have never called me names or insulted my humanity, nor have they ever insulted one another.

No one should ever talk to a child that way. There are much better ways of handling a situation than to literally dehumanize and purposefully tear down their self-esteem like that. That's just horrible.

Seems to me this is total crap actually.
You're telling me your parents never once yelled at you, or maybe even spanked you (which is worse than what Baldwin did)? Yeah right.

[Rear Admiral Grapefruit]

You guys are underestimating what he did.

Calling an 11 year old a PIG and telling her she doesn't deserve to live is completely out of line. Especially from someone who is in the limelight like Baldwin for being a movie star. Some people idolize him.

What a child abuser.

I'm trying to imagine a spoiled rich child being told off for being spoiled and not acknowledging her father atleast for the things he does, and then this being considered child abuse, some kids get beaten to death or close to it, or shouted at and literally humiliated in everyway. He calls her a "pig" commonly used to call someone greedy, and says she's disrepectful to him, that's nothing, and the thing about an angry rant is it doesn't always come out with the greatest of clarity, because it's not thought through, you get things off your chest and however they come out doesn't really matter.

Also, i don't quite see the part where he says she doesn't deserve to live, nothing even close to it.

Heck, my neighbours have about 9000 kids and they shout worse things at each other everyday, this is pretty tame to me, greedy, ungrateful, inconsiderate and acts stupid, that's pretty much what he said, and I'm quite certain citizen's right, most parents will say something along those lines, when a child wont do the simplest of things, is non-compliant, selfish and ignorant. He just wanted to talk to her and she wouldn't even grant him that, hell I think he's justified to be pissed off.

[smokingmonkee]

I'm agreeing with Citizen and gentlemanandascholar here. Yeah he fucked up, but it's not news. There is no reason why the general populace needed to hear this, just use it as evidence in a case proving he's a fucktard and that's it.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

Aye; I used to get a bollocking up and down our street pretty much everyday!

Mind you; despite getting a good spanking pretty much every day; I don't think my parents would never insult my intelligence like this hollywood dude did to his wee kid. He chose strong words; a simple "ye'ra spoilt lil' brat; u'n ye ma's a whore!" Would've been much better; and even in that accent.

[Roxie]

Seems to me this is total crap actually.
You're telling me your parents never once yelled at you, or maybe even spanked you (which is worse than what Baldwin did)? Yeah right.
Is that what I wrote? I don't recall typing that at all.
My parents very rarely ever yelled. Their dissapoint in me was enough to bring me to tears in most cases.

They spanked me, but that was not worse than what Baldwin did. At the end of the day I knew why and I knew that they still loved me. I've never doubted that. But they never, ever called me names or dehumanized me in anyway.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I would say physical violence towards a child is worse than calling them names. That's just me though.

edit: I mean seriously, if he snapped and this is all he did, who cares?

[Roxie]

I'm trying to imagine a spoiled rich child being told off for being spoiled and not acknowledging her father atleast for the things he does,

Heck, my neighbours have about 9000 kids and they shout worse things at He just wanted to talk to her and she wouldn't even grant him that, hell I think he's justified to be pissed off.
But you don't know if she's spoiled or not. Although often true, rich doesn't always = spoiled. Even so that's still no way to set an example. And you're inferring other things into the situation that no one but that family could know....and just because other kids have it worse doesn't make it anymore acceptable.

She could've been in the bathroom for all we know.

However, I agree, it's not news.

[Roxie]

I would say physical violence towards a child is worse than calling them names. That's just me though.

edit: I mean seriously, if he snapped and this is all he did, who cares?
there is a difference between a spanking and a beating. i was never spanked out of anger. every thing that happend explained. i knew why i was being punished.

I care, cause you shouldn't talk to a kid that way.

[Jay]

My parents did a lot worse to me as a kid.

Why have their rants and temper-induced rages not been released to the media yet?

[Roxie]

My parents did a lot worse to me as a kid.

Why have their rants and temper-induced rages not been released to the media yet?
opportunity and access?

[Jay]

Maybe because they're not movie stars. :sarcasm:

[gentlemanandscholar]

there is a difference between a spanking and a beating. i was never spanked out of anger. every thing that happend explained. i knew why i was being punished.

I care, cause you shouldn't talk to a kid that way.

Well if you care, you should enlist for the kids help phone, because this is nothing. One isolated incidence of a father venting his frustrations because (most likely) the daughter really doesn't ever answer the phone and is isolated because of the mother, and people are reacting like he stabbed her in the face. If this was recurring then I understand, but it isn't.

[Roxie]

Well if you care, you should enlist for the kids help phone, because this is nothing. One isolated incidence of a father venting his frustrations because (most likely) the daughter really doesn't ever answer the phone and is isolated because of the mother, and people are reacting like he stabbed her in the face. If this was recurring then I understand, but it isn't.
Am I not being clear? Am I really hard to understand here? did I say I care about this kid and Alec Baldwin only and only what he says to her and how he says it? I really don't think I'm being vague.

I care about anyone who would talk to a kid that way or do anything wose.
You don't know if it's recurring or not.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Am I not being clear? Am I really hard to understand here? did I say I care about this kid and Alec Baldwin only and only what he says to her and how he says it? I really don't think I'm being vague.

I care about anyone who would talk to a kid that way or do anything wose.
You don't know if it's recurring or not.

No you aren't being clear, because in the same post you're saying:
did I say I care about this kid and Alec Baldwin only and only what he says to her and how he says it?
but then
I care about anyone who would talk to a kid that way or do anything wose.
Which would mean you do care. So which is it?

And if you don't care, why are you still posting in this thread?

[Lateli]

Blah, the real abuse was the mother releasing that stuff to the media.

(And hell, I was never physically abused, but the things people would do to me left me near-mute for a long time. I still hate people. That just looks like a custody war that's crossed the line.)

[Roxie]

No you aren't being clear, because in the same post you're saying:

but then

Which would mean you do care. So which is it?

And if you don't care, why are you still posting in this thread?
Don't be dense. Those statements do not contridict each other.

[Jay]

:note: "I have a lovely bunch of coconuts..."

[stsparky]

As a parent who has seen the worse in parents and myself I suspect the bad parent here is Kim not Alec. I don't have time for most of the Brothers Baldwin but I think one shouldn't judge another in the middle of a custody war.

Roxie? People have bad days. I am 100% sure the child is loved by both parents.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Don't be dense. Those statements do not contridict each other.

It's contradict, but whatever.

Back to the topic on hand: he didn't do anything that deserves any sort of media attention, he only did something that is bound to happen with a parent going through a very messy divorce.

[Roxie]

As a parent who has seen the worse in parents and myself I suspect the bad parent here is Kim not Alec. I don't have time for most of the Brothers Baldwin but I think one shouldn't judge another in the middle of a custody war.

Roxie? People have bad days. I am 100% sure the child is loved by both parents.
Yeah, the release to the media is dubious, however I don't think the "bad day" excuse is enough. Perhaps I just have really high standards or something. I still feel you don't talk to a kid that way, no matter kind of day you had.

[Roxie]

Yes, but I'd like to keep my job, so I don't leave them any messages like that.

[Jay]

Kids can be way more shitty than parents, friends, coworkers - and I'm assuming, Roxie, that you've snapped with at least one of those groups at some point?

[Digital Masta]

When I heard this I was like..."Yeah its a little rough, but we have no clue what the situation with this phone was" who knows how long this "disrespect" with the phone had been going on and you know what...he lost it. My parents have snapped on me and my brothers before, it happens, big f'ing deal. This is nobody elses business anyway.

People think that celebrities are more than human, well guess what? They aren't.

[Jay]

Digital Masta's got the idea. :cool:

[smokingmonkee]

When I heard this I was like..."Yeah its a little rough, but we have no clue what the situation with this phone was" who knows how long this "disrespect" with the phone had been going on and you know what...he lost it. My parents have snapped on me and my brothers before, it happens, big f'ing deal. This is nobody elses business anyway.

People think that celebrities are more than human, well guess what? They aren't.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[CrazyAce86]

Oh, good grief. :rolleyes:

I got worse than this growing up. Hell, I still do.

Maybe you shouldn't yell or insult your kids, but this isn't a Dr. Phil show. It happens, good or bad. I didn't come out worse for wear. I'm kind of glad to have had it, or else I would have become a certified hellion. I've seen what happens when you don't correct your kids and just "show disappointment." Maybe that flied with your family Roxie, and all the power to you for that, but that never worked in the kids I saw. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's what I know.

As for Alec Baldwin, can't they leave the guy alone for five minutes? I mean, really, isn't one of his brothers in rehab or in jail or something slightly more important than this? So he yelled at his kid, big whoop-dee-fucking-do.

[Jay]

Like you're not already a certified hellion, Lacey.

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

Hmm, I don't know. When I heard what he said to his daughter, I just couldn't believe it. I mean, when my parents yelled at me they would point what I've done, and not try to insult who I am. Maybe I'm just lucky in that regard from what people are saying about their parents, but I can't imagine ANYONE talking to their own child in this way. I don't care how frustrated he his, there are better ways to convey your anger than calling your 11 year old child a pig.

[Jay]

When people snap, they say things unfair things they regret later on. I'm sure Alec is being harder on himself than any of us could ever be.

[Masa the Masta]

I don't find this too unusual. Parent snaps at kid.

A little fucked, but the media is reaching awfully hard for content these days..

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

The minute I saw this on television I was wondering why it was my business to know in the first place. I find it sad that people are more interested in this than stuff that, you know, actually matters.

With that said, never, when I was that young, did my parents snap that hard at me. What Baldwin pulled wasn't what should be considered normal behavior for a parent to do, and it's unsettling that some of you feel that it is. You don't have to snap at your kid and yell to correct them if they did something wrong. Personally, I think that I turned out fine.

[Firefly]

...and this is more important than the people who will die in the middle east today, how?

[Mastiker]

...and this is more important than the people who will die in the middle east today, how?

because those silly soldiers and middle eastern people don't have billions of dollars and aren't pretty. :innocent:

This is my stance on this whole situation:

It's messed up. I'm not going to go the "holier than thou" route and say I never would say that, because I probably would. Hell, I'd probably be harsher.

Does this mean that Alec is a bad parent? Oh dear god no. Does this mean that he "abused" her? Quite possibly. Is she going to be horribly scarred for life? Maybe. Is this real news? FUCK no.

Now, simply because people DO say this things, and say harsher things, and more often, does that make this act right? Oh no. But it's not as harsh as the people who put cigarettes out in their children's arms, or boss's who work their employees to the bone and refuse to pay more money than they earned, or hell media who take someone's personal voicemail and release it to the public.

...

Now shut up, and talk about something that matters ^.^

[Plekto]

Welcome to a typical child custody situation. Stuff like this happens all the time, unfortunately, unless both sides decide to try very hard not to get the child caught in the middle.

I know. As must as I loathe my ex, I remain civil with her for our son's benefit. But we're far from the norm so it seems. All too many people decide that their egos are more important than their child's development.

It won't make any difference to me about his movies or acting. We all know that most actors and actresses are some of the most mentally and emotionally unstable people on the planet to begin with.

[Jetsetlemming]

I got called worse than what Baldwin said last night. :gloomy:

[MNJetter]

I think that what he said is a horrible thing to say to a child. But ultimately, so long as it's not a regular habit, it's forgivable.

Also.....gentlemanandscholar, you were misreading Roxie's line back there, but I think that was partially because the grammar comes out a little unclear in written form. Forgive me Roxie....

Original
did I say I care about this kid and Alec Baldwin only and only what he says to her and how he says it?
(inference: vague in written form, though if you say it out loud, the meaning is more clear)

Grammatically correct, but with original intended meaning
did I say I care only about this kid and Alec Baldwin and what he says to her and how he says it?
(inference: she cares about this kid and about other people)
(conclusion: the sentences do not contradict)

[daidokoro]

The internet is every public figure's worst enemy. This should've just remained an issue between Alec Baldwin, his ex, his daughter and I guess the court dealing with the custody battle. But no, now its all over YouTube and is suddenly everyone's business.

[gentlemanandscholar]

I think that what he said is a horrible thing to say to a child. But ultimately, so long as it's not a regular habit, it's forgivable.

Also.....gentlemanandscholar, you were misreading Roxie's line back there, but I think that was partially because the grammar comes out a little unclear in written form. Forgive me Roxie....

Original

(inference: vague in written form, though if you say it out loud, the meaning is more clear)

Grammatically correct, but with original intended meaning

(inference: she cares about this kid and about other people)
(conclusion: the sentences do not contradict)

Ah, my bad.

[xinster]

...and this is more important than the people who will die in the middle east today, how?


aint no middle eastern people in the departed

[Pierrot le Fou]

You guys are underestimating what he did.

Calling an 11 year old a PIG and telling her she doesn't deserve to live is completely out of line. Especially from someone who is in the limelight like Baldwin for being a movie star. Some people idolize him.

What a child abuser.
Dear God, is this what's become of today's youth? Where berating an 11 year-old is abuse? Give me a fucking break.

Abuse is getting the shit beat out of you for no reason by your parents, being abandoned by your parents, being locked in a hot car by your parents, etc. Getting yelled at for doing something wrong isn't abuse, it's called parenting. Is it your style? Perhaps not. And you're perfectly welcome to not raise your voice to your children ever.

But for fuck's sake, was your childhood truly so enchanted that you were never yelled at? That you never did something wrong and were berated for it?

Sorry, it just ain't the norm. And I'm not convinced that it should be. Hence I'll parent my own kids, and let Alec Baldwin parent his.

Abuse, hah! 6000 miles away and a few harsh words exchanged.

What I'd give for your childhood.

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

...what kind of parent names their child "Ireland"?

[Pierrot le Fou]

...what kind of parent names their child "Ireland"?
Shit, I thought her daughter was in Ireland. Woops!

Now THAT'S child abuse. Christ. Calling her a pig? No biggie. Naming her Ireland? Yikes.

[Daishikaze]

Dear God, is this what's become of today's youth? Where berating an 11 year-old is abuse? Give me a fucking break.

Abuse is getting the shit beat out of you for no reason by your parents, being abandoned by your parents, being locked in a hot car by your parents, etc. Getting yelled at for doing something wrong isn't abuse, it's called parenting. Is it your style? Perhaps not. And you're perfectly welcome to not raise your voice to your children ever.

But for fuck's sake, was your childhood truly so enchanted that you were never yelled at? That you never did something wrong and were berated for it?

Sorry, it just ain't the norm. And I'm not convinced that it should be. Hence I'll parent my own kids, and let Alec Baldwin parent his.

Abuse, hah! 6000 miles away and a few harsh words exchanged.

What I'd give for your childhood.

Quoted for truth.

[Roxie]

It's called verbal abuse (apon repitition) and can be quite psychologically damaging. I don't think you should ever berate a child (call them names, etc) for several reasons (it's immature in itself, it doesn't help the situation, it's not productive, it makes you look like a loose cannon, etc..). Just because "a lot" of people might do it, doesn't make it good or right..it should not be normal..just as it doesn't take being an idealistic nut to NOT do that. He's an adult, she is a child

[Trump]

How would you react if your daughter was not there for a preplanned phone call?

[stsparky]

It's called verbal abuse (upon repetition) ...
There's all the earmarks that this is an one time event. You've never seen a custody battle? Or worse still — a celebrity custody battle? Kim is being really nasty sharing this with the public, as now, all of Ireland's peers will be calling her a pig. And that's hurtful at a real level for a child.

What if she was being a pig by playing the parents against each other for gifts and goodies? Or being put up to 'not be there for a phone call' scheduled in advance by a court order engineered by Kim wanting an angry voice message. I think the one who released the message is the 'bad' parent here. What would prompt one to be dishonest with one's child? Bad behavior by the child should be identified. Kim's sneakiness should be a black mark on her parenting skills. Ireland would be better off in her dad's custody as his anger shows he actually cares about Ireland and wouldn't use her as a tool to hurt his ex-wife.

[Digital Masta]

Personally if I was judge and I had to deal with this case Kim would certainly lose points for releasing this to the public. It's really bad taste.

It's called verbal abuse (apon repitition) and can be quite psychologically damaging. I don't think you should ever berate a child (call them names, etc) for several reasons (it's immature in itself, it doesn't help the situation, it's not productive, it makes you look like a loose cannon, etc..). Just because "a lot" of people might do it, doesn't make it good or right..it should not be normal..just as it doesn't take being an idealistic nut to NOT do that. He's an adult, she is a child

Verbal Abuse means that you are doing this constantly...calling your child names. I think its pretty clear that this was a one time thing which was a result of Ireland clearly doing this over and over again.


People are way to willing to call into question people's parenting abilties...

"Oh my god you hit your child."

"Oh my god you raised your voice to your child"

"You're such a horrible parent"

Sometimes...simply talking to child about what they did doesn't work.

When I see those little kids in stores screaming and throwing fits (and even kicking their parents) because their parents won't get them something or whatever, I look at that and get a little sad because I know fully well when I was that age I'd get my ass kicked IN the store for doing that.

Hell my father saw one child kick his mom and she did nothing. He came home and said "I know you guys (my brothers and I) wouldn't have even thought to do that."

[Roxie]

There's all the earmarks that this is an one time event. You've never seen a custody battle? Or worse still — a celebrity custody battle?No, not really (I don't pay that much attention to celebrity custody battles). It's possible she is being used..and is just stuck in between the parents' animosity..in which case is just as reprehensible.

Kim is being really nasty sharing this with the public, as now, all of Ireland's peers will be calling her a pig. And that's hurtful at a real level for a child.
I absoutely agree

What if she was being a pig by playing the parents against each other for gifts and goodies?
Oh that's weak. They're the adults. they'd better not let themselves get played by a child.

[Roxie]

Verbal Abuse means that you are doing this constantly...calling your child names. I think its pretty clear that this was a one time thing..Yes, which is why I said "upon repitition"

[SlickWilly440]

As always, I find myself asking the same question that I always do when I see something like this. "Who gives a flying fuck?". Any parent who claims that they've never snapped at their child is either A) The parent of a newborn baby, or B) Lying.

It pains me every time I see something like this treated as news. We shouldn't give a shit about other people's personal calls in the first place, even if they are full of lullz.


Yeah I totally agree, I had cnn on while on the computer when they air this story. I was like who cares, and why does this qualify as news? It's annoying that the media treats exposes celebrities for common things that everyone in whole world does.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It's called verbal abuse (apon repitition) and can be quite psychologically damaging. I don't think you should ever berate a child (call them names, etc) for several reasons (it's immature in itself, it doesn't help the situation, it's not productive, it makes you look like a loose cannon, etc..). Just because "a lot" of people might do it, doesn't make it good or right..it should not be normal..just as it doesn't take being an idealistic nut to NOT do that. He's an adult, she is a child

You think THIS was verbal abuse? Sweet Jesus. That's like calling a woman getting drunk at a party, sleeping with someone, regretting it the next morning, and calling it rape.

Verbal abuse is constant, and a Hell of a lot worse than what he said. I take it that your childhood was so enchanted that you have no fucking idea of how harsh words CAN be?

Calling your child 'selfish' or the equivalent is NOT verbal abuse if it's done in the context of scolding a child for something they did wrong. It's called 'parenting.' And while you may not like that style because you were a perfect prissy little princess who never did anything wrong, there are many kids who ARE selfish brats and whose parents decide that telling them as much is NOT a bad idea.

Sweet Jesus. The next generation of runts is going to be a fucking nightmare. I'm moving to the middle of nowhere because of your overprotective shit-for-brains potential adults who can't distinguish between discipline and abuse, and therefore go the route of doing absolutely no parenting so that their hellions of little kids harass the rest of us.

[SlickWilly440]

Once the verbal approach of punishing children for bad behavior wears off, then you have to switch to physical punishment = pain.

I start to laugh when I see TV shows with parents stating "We don't beat or kid, we tell him to behave." Then they try the verbal approach on the child and it has no effect......LOL

[gentlemanandscholar]

Once the verbal approach of punishing children for bad behavior wears off, then you have to switch to physical punishment = pain.

I start to laugh when I see TV shows with parents stating "We don't beat or kid, we tell him to behave." Then they try the verbal approach on the child and it has no effect......LOL

I'm putting you on time-out.

[Roxie]

Verbal abuse is constant, And thus, PLF, I quote myself for the second time. I said, "upon repitition"
I take it that your childhood was so enchanted that you have no fucking idea of how harsh words CAN be?
Then you would be wrong.

Calling your child 'selfish'
You can tell your child they're being selfish without berating them.

or the equivalent is NOT verbal abuse if it's done in the context of scolding a child for something they did wrong. It's called 'parenting.' And while you may not like that style because you were a perfect prissy little princess who never did anything wrong,
Let's not assume things we don't know, alright?

there are many kids who ARE selfish brats and whose parents decide that telling them as much is NOT a bad idea.
I absolutely agree. It's all about the way in which its said.

Sweet Jesus. The next generation of runts is going to be a fucking nightmare. I'm moving to the middle of nowhere because of your overprotective shit-for-brains potential adults who can't distinguish between discipline and abuse, and therefore go the route of doing absolutely no parenting so that their hellions of little kids harass the rest of us.
Again, you can parent without berating. I know there is a line between discipline and abuse. I guess you missed my earlier posts about spanking, but whatever.

[Micah the Great]

I'm sorry, but i skipped directly to the end of this thread. If you give two damns about what Alex Baldwin thinks about anything, you automatically lose at life. Celebrities are worthless. Worry about YOUR life, YOUR friends, and YOUR family, and not some bullshit asshole.

Oh well.. you guys were proly talking about something different by now, but whiskey makes me want to post really fast.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Let's not assume things we don't know, alright?

Jesus Christ, Roxie.
If you're going to insult someone at least do it right.

[Pierrot le Fou]

And thus, PLF, I quote myself for the second time. I said, "upon repitition"

Then you would be wrong.


You can tell your child they're being selfish without berating them.


Let's not assume things we don't know, alright?


I absolutely agree. It's all about the way in which its said.


Again, you can parent without berating. I know there is a line between discipline and abuse. I guess you missed my earlier posts about spanking, but whatever.
Gee, why would I make an assumption about having an echanted home life?
I'm sorry, but that is total crap. My parents have NEVER snapped at me nor my sister, or any other child like that. Not even my nephew..and he's tough to handle..They have never called me names or insulted my humanity, nor have they ever insulted one another.
I don't know why I'd EVER think that you weren't ever yelled at...

[Lea]

Well... My parents have yelled at me. For example, "Look! All your complaining is making everyone else mad! Stop it right now! We're tired of it!" But I know if my dad called me that when I was 11, I wouldn't be able to stop crying. My parents have never hit me, called me a name, or sworn at me. (Is that really so hard to believe!?) They've said I was spoiled and being a brat, but not a pig! Of course, if someone at school told me that there would be trouble, but if my dad told me that? I'd be so hurt. I don't agree this is news, but damn. That's so mean. I could never imagine either of my parents saying that to me. Not even on the worst days ever.

Then again, we don't know the girl's everyday behaviour. (evil spawn!?) But for me, that seems so harsh.

[Roxie]

Gee, why would I make an assumption about having an echanted home life?
I don't know why I'd EVER think that you weren't ever yelled at...
Yeah, my parents are pretty damn good parents and I was a pretty good kid. What's your point? What's the whole perfect princess crap about? Do you assume I've never met anyone else's family? What kind of bearing does that have on me believing that children shouldn't be abused in any fashion? That you can discipline without berating?

Now, I know people aren't perfect and make mistakes and say things they don't mean--I'm just hoping it isn't a habit.

I said you shouldn't talk to children that way, and by "you" I meant everyone, not just the parents (although I believe especially the parents). However, parents aren't the only ones who come in contact or care for children.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Because if you're a good child, you tend to assume that children are good children, and therefore learn from a stern talking-to. Many kids don't give a shit if it's a talking-to, many don't care if they get yelled at, and some don't even give a shit if they get hit. To suggest that because your parents were able to raise you without having to raise their voices or berate you doesn't mean that this is necessarily normal, or that they were magically good parents because you were good without them having to get angry.

In short, your little diatribe here makes me think that you know jack and shit about parenting, and are basing your opinions on the very narrow view of the world you had growing up.

[Plekto]

Sweet Jesus. The next generation of runts is going to be a fucking nightmare. I'm moving to the middle of nowhere because of your overprotective shit-for-brains potential adults who can't distinguish between discipline and abuse, and therefore go the route of doing absolutely no parenting so that their hellions of little kids harass the rest of us.

OMG? I agree with PLF twice in a week? :duh: :frypan: :bang:

No, seriously - the liberal whiny excuses for parents here in the U.S.(and education) is going to create a whole generation or two that end up being useless in the real world, or close to it.

Verbal *abuse* is an ongoing condition. Like torture or imprisonment(as opposed to just hitting some guy upside the head when you are drunk).

Verbal yelling and throwing a fit is a whole other thing. If my son, much as I love him, kicked the cat, for instance, I'd yell at him. You bet I would. Now, true, he over-reacted, and the ex is a total asshat bitch for releasing it, but it's not abuse. As I said, welcome to a typical custody battle.

When I grew up, btw the principal had a big paddle in her office. And she used it. Just the threat alone meant she had to use it maybe twice a year, We knew exactly how bad it was to get sent to her office - and knew exactly where the line was. Now, they can walk all over the poor teachers.

[stsparky]

Bastard Elementary School Principal broke his paddle on me. I laughed. He never replaced it.

I suspect parental apathy will drive the little monsters to cut themselves.

[Plekto]

Heh. I'd have loved to see his face ;)

[Roxie]

Because if you're a good child, you tend to assume that children are good children, and therefore learn from a stern talking-to. Many kids don't give a shit if it's a talking-to, many don't care if they get yelled at, and some don't even give a shit if they get hit. To suggest that because your parents were able to raise you without having to raise their voices or berate you doesn't mean that this is necessarily normal, or that they were magically good parents because you were good without them having to get angry.

In short, your little diatribe here makes me think that you know jack and shit about parenting, and are basing your opinions on the very narrow view of the world you had growing up.I.KNOW.THAT
For the second time, do you think I never had any interaction with any other families or something? You're assuming, that I am assuming things I already know to NOT be true--AND, I have already said as much! You think I don't know children are different (seriously why the fuck would I ever think we're the same--I would have had to NEVER interact with any kids for that to happen)?

You're the one talking about the line between abuse and discipline, berating is part of discipline now?

Verbal *abuse* is an ongoing condition.
No shit, Sherlock. Which is why this is my FOURTH time saying that very same thing!

[Ichisan]

I wouldn't say this qualifies as verbal abuse at all, certainly not on the basis of one incident, but I think people who dismiss this as just a parent snapping at their child are missing the point: every parent yells and snaps at their child sometimes but you do not call them names ('pig') and you do not unload adult emotional baggage on a child ('parental alienation', complains about what she is doing to him). It's not that it's such a terrible thing to do, but it's rather pathetic parenting.

Of course we're all human and I'm not in a position to judge him, and it's noone's business but the family's yadda yadda (yet why are we all here condemning the media for publishing at the same time as we eagerly discuss it?).

By the way: Kim Basinger has now denied releasing the tape to the media - doesn't say who did - and stated that his aggressive behaviour is the reason for their ongoing legal disputes. Obviously there's no way for members of the general public to know the real truth in cases like this, so there's no point pretending otherwise.

[Pierrot le Fou]

No, berating isn't abuse, and it IS discipline. Read the definition (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?gwp=13&s=berate).

Arguing with you is almost entirely pointless. You've got on blinders so thick on that you can't see your own eyelashes.

[Roxie]

In that case, what I meant is to call a child a name.
Blinders my ass. There's no need to call a child a name.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Correct. There is no need to. That doesn't make it abuse, highly objectionable, or worthy of the amount of shit that you have piled on him in this thread.

My God you're a sensitive whiner. Grow a thicker skin.

[Roxie]

You're the one calling people names and I'm the sensitive whiner?

For the FIFTH TIME, I did not call what he did verbal abuse. I said it could be considered that if it was something that happend repeatedly...Yet, you missed me saying it the other four times. Amazing.

I already said "Hey, I know people make mistakes"....Did you not realize I was no longer talking about Baldwin alone, but about the issue of verbal abuse v. discipline?

I'm not the one snidely calling people perfect little princesses with enchanted childhoods, assuming things about other people that I don't know. In fact, I'm not even upset at that, but teh fact you want to tell me I'm the sensitive whiner? Laughable!

[Pierrot le Fou]

I must be verbally abusing you! Quick, call the cops! Social services! Take me away! Think about the children!

Care shelving your righteous indignation for a moment and return to reality with the rest of us? Thanks. Your words are not stated in a vaccuum, nor are they interpreted as if they were. You'd do well to remember that when you go on a tirade about the evils of others.

[Jetsetlemming]

Knock it off already. You've ceased to care about the topic at hand and are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[ellie]

Well I'll throw my two cents in, I guess.

We really have no way of knowing if this is ongoing or not. I would think it's NOT. This is purely speculation, but it seems like Kim is stooping pretty low in this custody battle. If he was verbally abusing his daughter, I'm thinking it would be much easier to prove it than having to sneakily leak a phone recording to the press.

My parents' didn't believe in spanking me, but they each handled things in their own way. My mother would just act disappointed, but my dad was a yeller. I've been yelled at, even "berated". But was it wrong? I don't think so.

I'm taking a sociology class right now (it's actually cross-listed with the School of Social Work, so half the class are junior/senior undergrads, and the other half are graduate students in the school of social work, and we all learn the same curriculum) about family behavior. Based on what we've learned in this class so far, I would not define this event as verbal abuse. We do not know if it was ongoing or not. Families act in different ways. Just because you were raised in one way doesn't mean that another way is wrong. I will never spank my future children, but I don't believe it is wrong for a parent to spank their child, it's just not the method I want to use with my futurekids. But I fully believe it is a parent's right to decide how to discipline their children. I do NOT beleive a parent should be allowed to abuse their child, but spanking or yelling is not always abuse.

And when he called his daughter a "pig," I believe it was meant as being "selfish," not as being fat. I don't want to assume anything about the situation, because I obviously have no way of knowing what really happened.

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

I think you should be able to spank a child, and I think that you should be able to yell at your child if they do something wrong. After my father spanked me ONCE, just the threat of it was enough to keep me in line.

BUT, there is a big difference between calling your child something, and saying that they are acting like something. She's 11 years old - she's young enough that if she really is a "selfish, thoughtless little pig," it's most likely her parents fault. Considering she's being used in a custody case with her parents, since she missed her planned phone call with her father he should be yelling at his ex-wife, and not his daughter.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I think you should be able to spank a child, and I think that you should be able to yell at your child if they do something wrong. After my father spanked me ONCE, just the threat of it was enough to keep me in line.

BUT, there is a big difference between calling your child something, and saying that they are acting like something. She's 11 years old - she's young enough that if she really is a "selfish, thoughtless little pig," it's most likely her parents fault. Considering she's being used in a custody case with her parents, since she missed her planned phone call with her father he should be yelling at his ex-wife, and not his daughter.
Do you know how many studies have been done that show that the effects parents have on their kids is more nature than nurture? Stating that it's the fault of the parents is a little off. Obviously some things can impact a child more than others, but for the most part, parents do not shape the personality of their kids save in perhaps extreme cases.

(see any number of study on adopted children and personalities compared to their adoptive parents vs. birth parents, or identical twins separated at birth and adopted by different families, etc.)

[Knife-Fingered Sue Sanderson]

Oh sure, there's no denying that. But being "selfish" is something encouraged by parental behavior.

[Hatsumomo]

This kid has been in the middle of a nasty divorce and custody battle since 2002. To compound that, it's being played out in the public eye. She can't hide this from her classmates or anybody else. I think she's stressed enough as is. Her father leaving such a nasty message isn't helping matters at all. And that's why I think he's an asshole and deserves to have visitation taken away for awhile. It might give him time to reflect. On that note, Kim Basinger should have custody taken away temporarily too. Put the kid with the grandparents or with a friend's parents or something. Let her be in a home where her parents aren't slinging shit at each other and eventually taking their frustrations out on her.

[Vincent]

I just love how people find time during their busy schedules to comment on the parenting skills of people they've never met. Adding to that the fact that some commenting have never had children. Adding to that the fact that I couldn't even read more than half of the comments without my eyes watering from the ignoramous dribble and ignorance being boradcasted in little squares of light from my monitor.
Like so many said above me, this shit ain't news, there's a war going on and people are getting blown up and shot all over the place, who the fuck cares about ANY of the Baldwins and their familial difficulties.
~~Please~~ Grow a pair (unless you are a woman) and stop acting like oversensitive hippie liberal douches (or is it the right wingers for child rights? meh)

[Kusoyaro]

amen
/10 chars

[Trump]

I'm not sure this has anything to do with parenting skills.

Here's the situation. It is a custody battle and it doesn't look like he has custody of his daughter right now. He looks forward to being able to talk to her on the phone and she doesn't show up. He has a right to be pissed and leaves an angry message on the answering machine.

That is ALL that has happened, what is the big deal?

[Ichisan]

This does have to do with parenting skills because calling your kid names is not disciplining them: it is sinking to the kid's level, and besides it's ineffective.

This ought to be common sense.

[Trump]

What does this even have to do with discipline?

[Jon885]

At first when I heard the tape I thought maybe little pig was an endearing nickname Alec had for his daughter. "Get over here and give daddy a hug, you thoughtless little pig!" Now I know that not to be true, but some people have an odd sense of humor, so anything's possible.

There's no excuse for talking to a child the way Alec Baldwin did, but as fallible human beings we're almost guaranteed to say and do things we regret. I was watching The Insider, and a woman was explaining how Alec's daughter Ireland is going to be emotionally scared for life. I couldn't help but laugh. When the girl's older she'll understand that it wasn't personal. Maybe she already does?

(by not personal i mean people say thing's out of anger that they don't really mean)

[Hatsumomo]

If Ireland is going to be emotionally scarred by anything, it's the nasty custody case that has been going on around her since she was in kindergarten and the fact that the whole thing is being played out in the public eye. This latest thing with her father (and her mother being the likely leak) is just the icing.

Honestly, I just feel so sorry for the kid. How is she supposed to grow up into a mature adult when the adults around her act like petulant five-year olds? I can't wait until she hits puberty and throws all the shit that her parents have been flinging back into their faces.

[Roxie]

http://www.thisjustin.com/2007/04/20/alec-baldwin-speaks-his-real-message-to-his-daughter/

[Saitou Hajime]

Doctor Phill will be talking about Baldwin tonight, as well as other "out of control husbands".

[Roxie]

THIS (http://www.thisjustin.com/2007/05/02/from-bad-to-worse-new-messages-from-alec-baldwins-friends) is HILARIOUS!!!

[aargon]

Alec Baldwin.

What a legend.

hahahaha :clap:
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