groping in trains

[lanaey]

I have heard women often get groped in trains in Japan so much that separate trains for women only have been established. I’ve also heard Japanese women often take it in stride and usually don’t make a big deal about it or report their abusers. Is this just one of those, “Ah, well, got felt up again on the train again” things? I’d be extremely angry. Do you see irate women screaming at and/or hitting their abusers? When someone gropes you, what do people normally say or do to them? If I come to Japan and a women’s only train is not available, are there precautions I can take? Thank you for any input.

[雨]

I hear women grope other women some times as well. My advice. GLARE AT THEM THROUGH YOUR FRINGE.

[mawande]

lanaey... so I come to the conclusion that you are a woman.

"I have heard women often get groped in trains in Japan so much that separate trains for women only have been established. I’ve also heard Japanese women often take it in stride and usually don’t make a big deal about it or report their abusers."

I've been in Japan for 9 years and never been groped. I've also never met anyone who admitted to having an affair. And I have asked a few people. They tend to give me very startled looks.

Two methods to deal with your fear of being groped when there is not a woman's only car available at a time when the train is so crowded that a groper can get away with it. One is to nearly sit on someone and scare them into giving up their seat. The other is to brace yourself with your back against the door, put your bag in front of your crotch and wear a demented expression.

As a third point: "I've heard that Japanese women often take it in stride and usually don’t make a big deal about it or report their abusers."

That there is a load of crap. They don't take it in stride. The problem is identifying the abuser. Do you think a groper WANTS to be caught? No. They make it very difficult to catch them.

[stsparky]

Wife says it happens more on the bus, and that some pervert once touched her in a movie theatre. She simply moved to a different seat. As to further the bus claim, a friend of hers had to throw away a trenchcoat a pervert made a stealthy 'sperm donation' into the side pocket of while riding a crowded bus on a rainy day. I strongly suspect that you've watched Kinjite (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0097670/) once too often ...

Just shout "Sukube!" - pronounced 'skibay' - though "Chikan!" would also do the job. Do so responsibly as fellow passenger once smothered a suspected groper to death in the Osaka area.

[Digital Masta]

Wife says it happens more on the bus, and that some pervert once touched her in a movie theatre. She simply moved to a different seat. As to further the bus claim, a friend of hers had to throw away a trenchcoat a pervert made a stealthy 'sperm donation' into the side pocket of while riding a crowded bus on a rainy day. I strongly suspect that you've watched Kinjite (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0097670/) once too often ...



Thats incredibly disgusting...yet I'm slightly impressed @ the same time...that requires some stealth mastery.

[Azrael]

Groping is a HUGE problem in Japan. Many train lines, especially ones in big cities, do include the women's only car as your mentioned.

However, as a foreign woman, I don't think you have to worry about it much - Japanese guys usually don't target foreign women. You already proved why when you said "I'd be extremely angry". Most Japanese guys know they'd catch a fist to the face if they even tried it with a foreign girl. I honestly don't think you really have anything to worry about. Just go about your business and don't turn every train trip into a "am I gonna get groped?" worrying experience.

As for your Japanese sisters, part of the problem is not being able to identify the culprit. On really packed trains like Tokyo's Yamanote or the Osaka subway (but really, NOTHING beats Yamanote...), people are packed in so tightly it's literally impossible to be able to figure out where it might be coming from. Hell, one night on the Yamanote, I think I had sex with seven different people. But they do also sort of just "take it in stride". 99% of the Japanese girls I know/have met were groped on trains when they were JHS/HS students, some even everyday. None of them really ever reported it. While there was the problem of identifying the accuser, for many it seemed they just didn't want to cause a scene. Quite a few said that they knew the groper would only get a slap on the wrist, and the whole ordeal would probably be more difficult for her more than anything. Not that they accepted it such as "oh well, I'm getting groped again". Many of my friends told me they cried everyday about it. But they just viewed it as one of those things that they can't do anything about.

I've been in Japan for 9 years and never been groped. I've also never met anyone who admitted to having an affair. And I have asked a few people. They tend to give me very startled looks.
Well, I don't think anybody's going to come right out and tell you if asked. And if they did, they'd be very stupid adulters.

"Are you cheating on your lover?"
"Why, yes I am! Let me tell you all about it..."

I can't really say that Japan is more prone to cheating than any other country, it happens all over the world. But Japan does seem to be a place where lovers will look the other way and let a LOT of stuff slide. A salaryman who comes home late a lot/or not at all may blame it on overtime, or drinking with co-workers. Where a western woman might become suspicious and start digging around, a Japanese woman would simply accept "work duties" and leave it at that. Perhaps, deep down, she has her suspicions, but from her POV digging it up wouldn't really do her any good.

One is to nearly sit on someone and scare them into giving up their seat. The other is to brace yourself with your back against the door, put your bag in front of your crotch and wear a demented expression.
I'd rather we not promote the stereotype of surly, pushy Gaijin. And if the train was that crowded, I doubt you could get anywhere near a bench.

As to further the bus claim, a friend of hers had to throw away a trenchcoat a pervert made a stealthy 'sperm donation' into the side pocket of while riding a crowded bus on a rainy day.
Yeah, a friend of mine says that one of his friends got off the train one day to find she had also been jizzed on. ...How the HELL are these guys ninja-jacking off in these situations? Baffles me.

EDIT
Make it 100% Japanese girls. I thought my GF had never been groped, but turns out she had. All of her friends too. She tells me one time, she was getting groped, moved to a different part of the train, but the pervert followed her. She says she didn't report it because she feared backlash against her.

Now, I literally do not know ANY Japanese girls who have NEVER been groped.

[Stephy]

Yeah, Mr. Az's post is similar to an article I read:

Nothing Came Close to This
This is a blog I wrote about something that happened to me on Friday, March 9, at about 9:30 AM on the 4/5 train.

snip

As I closed my book, I happened to look slightly down and to my left. And I saw a man's penis, EJACULATING on the back of a poor unsuspecting girl's black down jacket as she faced the other way. The man was AIMING it for this poor girl's back.

read more here Link (http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/)

Link 2 (http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/2007/02/mr-my-penis-should-fall-off.html)
Link 3 (http://feministing.com/archives/006678.html)
Just 2 other articles related to the topic.

[manrush]

Groping is a HUGE problem in Japan. Many train lines, especially ones in big cities, do include the women's only car as your mentioned.

However, as a foreign woman, I don't think you have to worry about it much - Japanese guys usually don't target foreign women. You already proved why when you said "I'd be extremely angry". Most Japanese guys know they'd catch a fist to the face if they even tried it with a foreign girl. I honestly don't think you really have anything to worry about. Just go about your business and don't turn every train trip into a "am I gonna get groped?" worrying experience.

As for your Japanese sisters, part of the problem is not being able to identify the culprit. On really packed trains like Tokyo's Yamanote or the Osaka subway (but really, NOTHING beats Yamanote...), people are packed in so tightly it's literally impossible to be able to figure out where it might be coming from. Hell, one night on the Yamanote, I think I had sex with seven different people. But they do also sort of just "take it in stride". 99% of the Japanese girls I know/have met were groped on trains when they were JHS/HS students, some even everyday. None of them really ever reported it. While there was the problem of identifying the accuser, for many it seemed they just didn't want to cause a scene. Quite a few said that they knew the groper would only get a slap on the wrist, and the whole ordeal would probably be more difficult for her more than anything. Not that they accepted it such as "oh well, I'm getting groped again". Many of my friends told me they cried everyday about it. But they just viewed it as one of those things that they can't do anything about.


Well, I don't think anybody's going to come right out and tell you if asked. And if they did, they'd be very stupid adulters.

"Are you cheating on your lover?"
"Why, yes I am! Let me tell you all about it..."

I can't really say that Japan is more prone to cheating than any other country, it happens all over the world. But Japan does seem to be a place where lovers will look the other way and let a LOT of stuff slide. A salaryman who comes home late a lot/or not at all may blame it on overtime, or drinking with co-workers. Where a western woman might become suspicious and start digging around, a Japanese woman would simply accept "work duties" and leave it at that. Perhaps, deep down, she has her suspicions, but from her POV digging it up wouldn't really do her any good.


I'd rather we not promote the stereotype of surly, pushy Gaijin. And if the train was that crowded, I doubt you could get anywhere near a bench.


Yeah, a friend of mine says that one of his friends got off the train one day to find she had also been jizzed on. ...How the HELL are these guys ninja-jacking off in these situations? Baffles me.

EDIT
Make it 100% Japanese girls. I thought my GF had never been groped, but turns out she had. All of her friends too. She tells me one time, she was getting groped, moved to a different part of the train, but the pervert followed her. She says she didn't report it because she feared backlash against her.

Now, I literally do not know ANY Japanese girls who have NEVER been groped.


May this have something to do with the fact (I don't really know if it's an actual fact) that Japan is THE most sexually repressed country in the world? :gangster:

[Eddie Echoplex]

May this have something to do with the fact (I don't really know if it's an actual fact) that Japan is THE most sexually repressed country in the world? :gangster:

Yes, but stephy also pointed out someone throwing man-goo at a girl's back in NY.

[雨]

May this have something to do with the fact (I don't really know if it's an actual fact) that Japan is THE most sexually repressed country in the world? :gangster:Can someone explain to me where this idea comes from. I find it to be really open, but I really wouldn't know. Someone elaborate. :box:

[Stephy]

ah yeah. (edit: not in response to amani's post).

Link here (
http://feministing.com/archives/004376.html[)

Its a really old article but in November of 2004:

almost 64 percent of Japanese women in their 20s and 30s have been groped on Tokyo trains, subways or at transit stations.

[manrush]

Can someone explain to me where this idea comes from. I find it to be really open, but I really wouldn't know. Someone elaborate. :box:


You could make a link. I mean, I see America as pretty hung up about sexuality, and some of the fetishes here are pretty fucked up. My own country was pretty sexually repressed during the Soviet times, and now it has some of the most hardcore porn ever. I get the same impression from Japan.

[雨]

Being a great fan and subscriber almost of Japan's porn I really don't think it's close-minded. I mean, TENTACLES?

[manrush]

Being a great fan and subscriber almost of Japan's porn I really don't think it's close-minded. I mean, TENTACLES?


I personally think that such weird fetishes can only come out of a once-sexually repressed society. Okay, okay, the Netherlands and Belgium are exceptions, they are sexually open, but very fucked up.

[Druid]

People are werid. Period(period).

[Myrsilus]

I personally think that such weird fetishes can only come out of a once-sexually repressed society. Okay, okay, the Netherlands and Belgium are exceptions, they are sexually open, but very fucked up.
Then that could work for Japan, too, right?

When I think Japan, I never think "sexual repression".

[xinster]

May this have something to do with the fact (I don't really know if it's an actual fact) that Japan is THE most sexually repressed country in the world? :gangster:

wow. If you wanted to make a list of the most sexually repressed countries, it would go like


1-100: (every country thats been plagued by christianity)
100+: (islam and other religious countries)
over 9000: japan

[xinster]

oh yeah, i think this wasnt amateur filming, and was actually stage, but i saw 3 or 4 clips of some japanese girls reading or sitting in a park and the cameraman's also catching a pervert hiding somewhere but clearly masturbating either in his pants or behind a newspaper and then flanking her and cumming all over her and runnnig away. I think they were all staged bc the reactions of the women were like
hey...what the hell is this stuff? Did i just get owned? eew. takes out napkin.

no screamin or nothing, at most just grimacing. not even a good attempt at escape.

[Black fist]

Wow I reading that blog that you made a link for and I'm fucking disgusted because at a certain point that when someone needs to get a kick in the balls.

[MNJetter]

They don't always avoid foreign women, though maybe they do on trains. I got groped once at a grocery store. He copped a quick feel and disappeared into the other aisle before I knew what was going on, and then when he came back around the other side and started heading towards me, my Stare of Death effectively re-established my Gaijin Perimeter, and he made a very conscious effort to study the various kinds of soy sauce on the other side of the aisle before escaping.

[PopCulturePooka]

Back in Japan my GF was groped one day on the Odakyu line (apprantly one of the worst lines in Tokyo for this shit). Too say she took it in her stride would be a massive lie.

She told me she'd been groped before but she was incredibly upset by it, pretty much in tears by the time she met me that day. But from what I gather, the groping she got was a little worse than the usual (Eg possibly the groper actually was touching her... genitals).

Made me hugely angry and added 1000 points to my 'Why I hate Japanese men' list.


Another time a student who worked at JR (dirty old man) gleefully told me a story about the time a junior high school girl came to his office with semen on her skirt and legs from some perv. After telling her that

'We porbably can't ever find the man, so its no good trying'

He then gleefully told me how he insisted he help 'clean her' and that he 'touched her leg'. So... Not only do you get groped, huge chance is the JR guys won't you seriously, they'll humiliate you further.



Things to do:

The minute you feel a hanf groping you, you grab said hand, jerk it in the air and yell CHIKAN CHIKAN!

Or the more extreme, yet funny way is this:

I heard stories of some girls carrying long sewing needles with them. If they felt themselves being groped, they'd jab the guy groping them, then yell Chikan. The guy behind them with the bleeding hand? GUILTY. And if they don't catch him? He still got stung.

[manrush]

I have to wonder if the venerable Japanese directors (and I use that term very loosely) haven't already made a porno about train-groping?

[manrush]

Groping on trains is a serious epidemic. But knowing Japan, they will be completely ignorant to this until (or unless)...da da da da...a foreigner gropes a Japanese woman. Sure, the ultranationalists will get their knickers in a bunch about it. But hey, at least someone will be concerned. (I think that this was my most cynical moment ever).:frypan:

[manrush]

Being a great fan and subscriber almost of Japan's porn I really don't think it's close-minded. I mean, TENTACLES?

Please tell me that you were joking (about being a fan of Japanese porn)

[PopCulturePooka]

I have to wonder if the venerable Japanese directors (and I use that term very loosely) haven't already made a porno about train-groping?
There a LOT. They usually become rape porn.

[pangloss]

However, as a foreign woman, I don't think you have to worry about it much -Japanese guys usually don't target foreign women.


...What about little boys and women? because they sure as hell targeted me.

:gloomy:

[Roxie]

Thats incredibly disgusting...yet I'm slightly impressed @ the same time...that requires some stealth mastery. Here's a story from Hollaback.
Nothing Came Close to This
This is a blog I wrote about something that happened to me on Friday, March 9, at about 9:30 AM on the 4/5 train.

The 4/5 was really crowded this morning. I shoved my way on and buried my nose in the book I'm reading. As the train slowed down to stop at Union Square, I decided to put away my book.

As I closed my book, I happened to look slightly down and to my left. And I saw a man's penis, EJACULATING on the back of a poor unsuspecting girl's black down jacket as she faced the other way. The man was AIMING it for this poor girl's back. I gasped and flung myself backward away from the man as the doors opened and this disgusting, dirty man exited the train. - just a regular, disgusting pig of a man who probably does this every morning to some poor girl who happens to be facing the other way. He looked to be about thirty years old.

I don't know what happened to the girl afterward - I looked for her, but I was so shaken up as people at Union Sq. entered and exited the train, that I don't know where she went.

So some poor girl is now walking the streets of New York, with some disgusting man's semen spread all over the back of her black down jacket. The thought of it makes my stomach turn.
She'll probably notice it in a few days and think it was anything but what it really is.

So girls -- WATCH OUT ON CROWDED TRAINS. This could've been me, you, or anyone. I've had guys rub up against me before and try to grab my ass on the train, but nothing ever came (no pun intended) close to this.
Would you still think this was cool if it happend to someone you cared about? Your mother, sister, aunt, cousin, neice, friend, crush, coworker, assoicate?
There's absolutely nothing impressive about it.

Here's something else. http://feministing.com/archives/006678.html
Pervert Trains

http://feministing.com/gropingtrain.JPG
I just finished reading Lust in Translation (http://www.amazon.com/Lust-Translation-Rules-Infidelity-Tennessee/dp/1594201145), an anecdotal survey by Pamela Druckerman of how different cultures deal with adultery. The chapter on Japan describes various types of sex clubs that cater to workaholic businessmen:Imagine getting off a crowded subway train and walking into a sex club only to discover... a mock-up of a crowded subway car. In this subway, however, you're allowed to feel up the pretty women. Ten male customers and ten women enter the chican-densha, or "pervert train" at the same time. (Women are supposed to shout "chican!" to embarrass the culprit if they're felt up a real subway.)Another book, Pink Box: Inside Japan's Sex Clubs (http://www.pinkboxjapan.com/index.html) features a more in-depth description (http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1058338) of groper-fetish clubs (and includes the above photo):For instance, one of the clubs, which caters to train gropers, simulates a 20-minute train ride in a carriage, complete with conductors’ announcements and ‘stops’ where women in short skirts (who are on the club’s payrolls) get on and off. For about 6,000 yen [about $50], ‘commuters’ can ride the train —and fondle as many of the pliant women as they please.If feeling up strange women as if they are your property is an act popular enough to merit its own fetish clubs, is it any wonder that over 60 percent (http://feministing.com/archives/004376.html) of Japanese women in their 20s and 30s have been groped on the subway? Or that there's a demand for women-only subway cars?
Apparently it's already difficult for some Japanese dudes to understand that women's bodies don't exist for their groping pleasure, and I can't imagine that frequenting the fetish club makes them get the message. Men have long complained (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1047972006) about the women-only subway cars, with several claiming to have been wrongly accused (http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0627/p08s01-woap.html). We can all agree that false accusations are bad. But in my experience, women -- even those who have been harassed before on crowded public transportation -- will usually assume they're not being groped until there's, uh, hard evidence to the contrary. (Case in point (http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/2007/02/mr-my-penis-should-fall-off.html).)
With Japan being a cellphone tech mecca, aren't we about due for a Hollaback Tokyo? I'm taking a trip to Japan this spring, and you better believe I'll be keeping my cellphone camera at the ready when I'm on the subway.
More

'Women only' signs make Japan's men fume

JULIAN RYALL IN TOKYO
AT THE time, most people agreed it seemed a good idea: carriages on Japanese commuter trains set aside specifically for females would dramatically reduce the number of women being molested by the chikan who get their kicks by having a sly fondle among the tightly packed bodies. And it worked.
The idea was so effective that it was quickly adopted by numerous train companies across the country, with pink signs adorning certain carriages warning men to keep their distance.

What is less welcome, however, is the sudden embracing of an entire male-free environment by whole sectors of the Japanese service industry.
It has become so common to see "no males" signs outside stores, restaurants, hotels, spas and even entertainment outlets that the victims of this policy are beginning to grumble that they are becoming second-class citizens.
"I completely supported the whole thing with women-only train carriages, even though it made my commute more difficult because there always seemed to be room in those carriages while us men were squeezed together tighter than ever," one Tokyo businessman said.
"But now it's just getting silly. I couldn't even get into my gym at my regular time last week because they have introduced a 'women-only' hour in the early evening."
Responding to a survey in the weekly news magazine Aera, 55 per cent of men said matters have gone too far. Perhaps surprisingly, 40 per cent of women agreed, saying the complete exclusion of men amounts to sex discrimination.
Men turning up at restaurants are being turned away because the women-only lunch special is on the menu, while convenience stores, cinemas and even pachinko parlours - the pinball gambling game that is the staple for the weary workers - are out of bounds for the boys, either permanently or for parts of the day.
"All these other establishments are simply jumping on the women-only bandwagon because they see an economic opportunity in it," says Toshiko Marks, a professor of multicultural understanding at Shumei University.
"It's well-known that single women today have a lot of money, so companies are exploiting that. Men are definitely starting to complain."

[Jetsetlemming]

^If the situation in that article were like it was: Women-only establishments, in areas and industries where groping wasn't a problem, I would too find it excessive and a pain in the ass. However, the very first comment on the article is
"I have lived in Tokyo for the last 8 years and I have never seen any of the women's only areas discussed in this article outside the above mentioned train lines.

It is regrettable that women are harrassed to the extent that they feel the need to be segregated from men. However, as my co-worker mentioned to me just the other day, if the men would stop sucking their teeth, picking their noses in public and keep their hands to themselves, women would not mind being around them more."

[Digital Masta]

Would you still think this was cool if it happend to someone you cared about? Your mother, sister, aunt, cousin, neice, friend, crush, coworker, assoicate?
There's absolutely nothing impressive about it.


You get your panties in a bunch too often

[MNJetter]

Clever one, Masta. It will accomplish a lot. You think up that jab all by yourself? :frypan:

[Digital Masta]

Clever one, Masta. It will accomplish a lot. You think up that jab all by yourself? :frypan:

:gloomy:

I'm quite aware of the whole gropping problem in Japan. Even one of my own friends who isn't Japanese yet lived there for almost a decade was groped on trains when she was about 11.

Clearly its disgusting and I wouldn't want anyone to get busted on without prior consent to said bustin'.

[雨]

Please tell me that you were joking (about being a fan of Japanese porn)It's true, I was joking, I tend to go for the kind that actually has artistic value and I can't say I ever saw anything Japanese and pornographic that wasn't animated.

[Ichisan]

Japan's the only country I've been to where I saw 'no groping' signs hanging up in an arcade-style shopping centre. There were a set of signs hanging from the ceiling with a stickman figure of a man with an evil grin putting his paw on a stickwoman figure and a red line through the lot.

[MNJetter]

I'm quite aware of the whole gropping problem in Japan. Even one of my own friends who isn't Japanese yet lived there for almost a decade was groped on trains when she was about 11.

Clearly its disgusting and I wouldn't want anyone to get busted on without prior consent to said bustin'.
I know. And I do think Roxie overreacted. Your response to her overreaction just made me smack my forehead and groan, is all.

[manrush]

It's true, I was joking, I tend to go for the kind that actually has artistic value and I can't say I ever saw anything Japanese and pornographic that wasn't animated.

Are you talking about stuff like found on MET Art or Petter Hegre's works?

[manrush]

But getting back to the topic, why aren't the feminists in the country raising a stink about this?

[羽之助]

why aren't the feminists in the country raising a stink about this?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Feminism? In Japan? If anything, the only work Japanese feminists have accomplished is to raise women from third-class citizens to second. This is a man's country, and though arguments can be made that women control the household through family finances, it is still an incredibly male-dominated society.

[gentlemanandscholar]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Feminism? In Japan? If anything, the only work Japanese feminists have accomplished is to raise women from third-class citizens to second. This is a man's country, and though arguments can be made that women control the household through family finances, it is still an incredibly male-dominated society.

Quote for truth. In fact, for girls who are "feminist" it just means they aren't incredibly bothered when groping occurs like MNJetter. My girlfriend just sent me an email after she got groped in a bookstore and ended it with "lol".

[SlickWilly440]

My girlfriend just sent me an email after she got groped in a bookstore and ended it with "lol".

So does that LOL mean she enjoyed it or doesn't care? And are you sitting there thinking, "Man, I haven't even gotten that far yet!"?:bang: :Joking:

[羽之助]

So does that LOL mean she enjoyed it or doesn't care? And are you sitting there thinking, "Man, I haven't even gotten that far yet!"?:bang: :Joking:

Quoted for idiocy.

[xinster]

her: I just got raped, lol
you: No pix, no care
her: Thread is in OT main
you: kthxbye

[gentlemanandscholar]

So does that LOL mean she enjoyed it or doesn't care? And are you sitting there thinking, "Man, I haven't even gotten that far yet!"?:bang: :Joking:

It was more of a "I got mildly groped, and I'm mature enough not to brush it off and not cry like a baby" lol. Apparently the guy was directly behind her *looking at magazines* and he backed into her, placing his hand on her ass. She turned around and looked at him and he just let out a forced "しつれい" and ran the fuck out of the store.

her: I just got raped, lol
you: No pix, no care
her: Thread is in OT main
you: kthxbye

Then I told her "Tits or gtfo"

[羽之助]

stfu lol b4k4

[gentlemanandscholar]

Don't make me grope you