Don't like the FairPlay DRM? Neither does Apple.

[Kaji]

Was going to resurrect the iPhone thread, but decided it deserved its own since this really doesn't have anything directly to do with said item.

That said, Steve Jobs published a paper on the Apple website recently, which can be viewed here (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/).

Mostly it's a response to the cases in France, Germany, and Norway, calling for the removal or opening up of the FairPlay DRM. Frankly, his points are rather logical. His main points consist of:

1) Generally, only about 3% of songs on any given iPod are from the iTunes store (the ratio of sales from the iTunes store to iPods is 22:1), which is hardly a significant enough portion to warrant not giving up one player to go to another if you feel compelled (after all, for the cost of a single CD, you can just download it from Microsoft or Sony's proprietary store again)

2) The DRM is in place because it was absolutely demanded by the major labels as a condition to distribute their music

3) As part of the conditions set by the record labels, they have a set period of time to reformulate and reimplement the DRM if it is compromised. Hence, if it is distributed to several companies, making all of them switch in a unified manner is that much more mammoth of a task

4) Furthermore, sharing the proprietary secrets with other companies means more opportunities for the secrets to leak.

5) If the European governments want to go after someone to put an end to proprietary DRMs, they should be taking the legal battle to the music companies that are requiring them, particularly the ones that are European-owned to begin with.

Naturally, he also of course involves the points that everyone else brings up (e.g. why DRMs don't work), and points to the irony of continued CD sales vs. DRM-encoded sales, repeating several times how Apple would embrace a DRM-free system if the companies would allow them to distribute in such a fashion.

Frankly, it kind of sums up several of the points I've been making all along in the matter rather well.

[Plekto]

Feh. Jobs is a quack and a hypocryte.

Seriously. You hate DRM so much? HOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE WORST OFFENDER - ITUNES' DRM.

[Kaji]

Feh. Jobs is a quack and a hypocryte.

Seriously. You hate DRM so much? HOW ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE WORST OFFENDER - ITUNES' DRM.

How about you take the point that's being made: It's either you get DRM-encoded content that contains what you want, or you get unencoded content, and little to none of what you want. Apple gains nothing by trying to violate the law here. Furthermore, as pointed out, Apple's not the only one instituting such a DRM. Try reading the post/article next time.

[Plekto]

Apple's DRM is their choice. They could easily do what other sites have done and start selling plain MP3s.

But yes, it's *Jobs*(who is Apple by definition) who is going on about how it's so bad... Well... I don't see a single word about Itunes or Ipods having any change in their DRM. Where's the proof of your intentions, Jobs?

[Kaji]

Once again, what part of "legal" are you missing here? The record companies, based on their actions thus far, would rather not have any distribution of their product in a purely digital format. Hence, legal digital music stores are obligated to play by the rules set forth by the companies if they want to be able to sell most of what people are interested in buying in the first place.

Furthermore, let's be realistic here. As Rob Halford commented during the trials where Judas Priest was accused of inducing suicide through hidden messages in their songs, why would they want to tell their audience to kill themselves when they can tell them to buy more records and paraphenalia instead? Likewise, why would Apple really want to restrict its potential market by utilizing DRMs? Why has Microsoft done so with the Zune?

The most important point in the article, frankly, is that if people want to put an end to the DRMs they should do so by compelling the companies that require them on their products, not the places that are trying to give you said products.

(and for the second or third time now, actually read the article before commenting, please)

[Angelyne]

Notice how Steve Jobs announced this shortly after Microsoft released DRM-infested Vista. Jobs doesn't give a shit about DRM, but he does care about making his biggest business rival look bad.

[MNJetter]

What's a DRM?

[Kaji]

DRM is short for Digital Rights Management mechanism, which is a technology the record companies have been forcing onto software companies if they want to have any legal form of interaction with their products in a digital manner. Jobs' point in the article isn't so much about who has DRM problems and who doesn't, he's attacking the source of the whole mess to begin with: The record companies who insist upon their use.

[MNJetter]

Ah, thanks. That's the general idea I got from the thread, but just wanted to confirm.

[Jetsetlemming]

Sounds like bull to me. The consumers'll steal everything if you gave them have a chance! They're all communists!11!1!!1
Personally, if I want music, I rip a friend/relative's CD, or go to http://magnatune.com/ . Screw Apple. If I'm gonna PAY for music, I'm gonna buy a physical copy of it, and I'm not gonna buy a physical copy that'll harm my computer if I play it (Cough*sony*cough).
BTW, if you haven't read it, this here is a piece of internet history.
Mark Russinovich's original break of the Sony BMG Rootkit:
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2005/10/31/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights-management-gone-too-far.aspx
Basically, Sony included a program on all their music CDs made in 2004/05 that installed itself on your system without telling you or asking you, altered windows to hide itself, and any other file with a similar name, invaded your CD rom drivers as a failsafe if you discovered the rootkit and tried to tamper with it (it would completely disable your CD drive), and connect to the internet and report to Sony what songs you were listening to and when, and who you were, all to prevent a computer user from getting the songs off the cd or plaything them with any other player but a built-in one on the CD. This of course failed, as all you had to do was disable Autoplay (in the windows menu or temporarily by holding Shift while inserting the CD), and you could just explore to the CD manually and copy the songs. Most users didn't know to do that, of course, and had a virus installed on their computers by Sony. They've faced multiple class action lawsuits, and recalled every CD they published because of this.
Plus the Sony programs were poorly coded, and risked a chance of crashing whenever it started or stopped, basically whenever you put in or took out a Sony CD.
I'm not very trusting of music companies. :(

[ZylitoL]

DRM sucks. I buy CDs to keep a physical copy as well, and give them a good listen once in a while.

.......Most users didn't know to do that, of course, and had a virus installed on their computers by Sony. .......

...shit.

A lot of my music comes from Sony signed artists, most notably my AC/DC Remasters Discography.

Am I fucked?

[Jetsetlemming]

Make a file who's name begins with $sys$ to test, for example "$sys$test.txt". If the file vanishes as soon as you make it, you have the Sony rootkit. Go on Sony BMG's website for a cure. Most antivirus/spyware programs automatically remove it at this point, though. It WAS over a year ago that it was discovered. The infected CD's are Sony BMG CDs made in 2005 that have their own proprietary music player that pops ups. Looks something like this: http://blogs.technet.com/photos/markrussinovich/images/482417/original.aspx
If you have a CD that can only play on your computer in a player built in the CD something like that, and it's a Sony CD from 2005, you should look into it.
Oh, and it only infects Windows systems. :P Thought I should mention that.

[Roxie]

i would buy stuff from itunes (tv shows, extra tracks).
I really wish I could

But I don't want to enough to buy an ipod. Yuck.

torrent for me.

[Angelyne]

DRM sucks. I buy CDs to keep a physical copy as well, and give them a good listen once in a while.



...shit.

A lot of my music comes from Sony signed artists, most notably my AC/DC Remasters Discography.

Am I fucked?

US Courts recently ruled that anyone who was affected by Sony's rootkit will be compensated with enough money to buy a new hard drive + a little bit of cash (total compensation amounts to a couple hundred dollars per person).

I'm too lazy to look for a link, Google if it if you want to know the details.

[Plekto]

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/guide/

If you look at the small box "a few alternatives" - several offer 100% legal to buy and download music with no DRM.

In short, it's sometihg the recording industry desires but the retailers aren't required to do(or else all of them would have DRM). This is why I stated that Jobs is bieng a hypocrite. Apple is one of the worst DRM schemes of them all in additon.

[Jetsetlemming]

I already posted a link to one online music vendor with no DRM. It's actually quite easy to steal from their website via their free mp3 streaming- normally you're supposed to pay to download permanantly, but they offer their streams both as flash music players, and .m3u playlists that, when opened in notepad, give direct download links to the mp3s of the songs. >_>; That would be highly immoral to do, though! This company needs monetary support in order to show the record industry it's a good idea. ;)

[ZylitoL]

Make a file who's name begins with $sys$ to test, for example "$sys$test.txt". If the file vanishes as soon as you make it, you have the Sony rootkit. Go on Sony BMG's website for a cure. Most antivirus/spyware programs automatically remove it at this point, though. It WAS over a year ago that it was discovered. The infected CD's are Sony BMG CDs made in 2005 that have their own proprietary music player that pops ups. Looks something like this: http://blogs.technet.com/photos/markrussinovich/images/482417/original.aspx
If you have a CD that can only play on your computer in a player built in the CD something like that, and it's a Sony CD from 2005, you should look into it.
Oh, and it only infects Windows systems. :P Thought I should mention that.

It appears that I'm safe. My Acca Dacca CDs were made in 2003. the $sys$ test isn't reacting.

Thanks JSL!

I will never buy a Mac though. NNNNEEEVVVAAARRR

[SlickWilly440]

So does the IPod only play the itunes formated songs or will it play regular mp3's? If you have an iTune formated song can you convert it to an mp3 file? If you pay for an iTune song can you redownload it for free if you lose the file? Can you convert mp3 files into iTune files? Can you copy iTunes onto a cd and transfer them onto another computer to use on you ipod?

If one can't do some or all these things then screw Ipods! What is a good mp3 player that plays regular mp3's with not digital rights crap, small, and has a long battery life?

[ZylitoL]

iPod can and will play regular mp3s.

An iPod can only synchronize with one computer, meaning it can only transfer files on that designated comp. In order to switch the computer of choice, I believe you have to format the iPod.

iPod should be fine for most people, unless you're picky about sound quality like me, or you don't like the iTunes-iPod synchonization, like me.
For simplicity, iPod is your best choice really.

[Angelyne]

Nobody is listening to Steve Jobs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6344929.stm)

[Kaji]

Nobody is listening to Steve Jobs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6344929.stm)

At least not at the record labels. His appeal is more directed towards the nations claiming the DRMs that the labels insist upon are illegal, pointing out that at least two of them are wholly owned by individuals and corporations within the borders of France and Germany, some of the objectors.

[Jetsetlemming]

I'd love to see Europe outlaw DRM that spoiled Fair Use. It could only be a good sign for America.

[Kaji]

I'd love to see Europe outlaw DRM that spoiled Fair Use. It could only be a good sign for America.

I agree with you there. I'm just hoping they remember to kill it at its source.

[Arctic_Slicer]

That's a pretty good article and demostrates very well the problems with the modern music industry. The record companies are a living in a time before 1993 where web browsers weren't invented and believe they can be successful relying on an outdated business model. The record companies get all pissy when anyone mentions "digital distribution". As long as they continue that attitude the worse shape they will be as time goes on. With the power of the internet and it's growing use digital distrubtion is only going to get more popular. The record companies only see money and don't realise how much less attractive they are making their products for the customer.

The real irony though is that the record companies rely on constant influx of new artists to keep the money comming in. If the record companies continue to cling to an outdated business model as they are now there will come time where they get left behind by new companies and who are much more willing to embrace the business models of the digital age. What the record companies don't seem to realize is unneccesary they are becoming in the eyes of new and indie artists.

Also why are people in this thread flaming Jobs? He is one of the most brililant people of our time and is completely right about the current state of the music industry. He's not a hypocrit and has been pushing for major changes in the music industry for some time now.

[Plekto]

I think it's because he also has an ego the size of Kansas.

Take the debacle with IPhone. The thing is - it's not going to be called IPhone(*) because Cisco owns that name already and Jobs basically ignored their copyright. Well, he did try to do a "lets all be friends" - but it wasn't two days later that Apple threatened LG(I think - might have been Nokia) - for announcing a phone that looked like the upcoming Apple-Phone.

*well, not legally

So Cisco(who own Linksys and is way way huger than Apple ever will be) cockblocked them outright - just said *no* - go find another name. And the result? Jobs is still pimping the IPhone name and still protecting its "intellectual rights" as agressively as possible. Still planning on releasing it as the "IPhone" despite the legal issues - basically ignoring the law and forcing Cisco to deal with 10 million "IPhones" taking over the name by default.

http://www.linksys.com/iphone/
Been on the market since 2000. Actual VOIP device backed by a multi-Billion dollar company.

Then this DRM nonsense happens a week or two later. DRM is optional for the resellers to add into their music. In no way is it legally required, though the record labels of course request it - probably for a nice kickback as is typical in the industry(trust me - I know - it's the entertainment industry's version of a Mafia). Jobs is touting DRM as bad and so on and yet... no change at all to how Itunes nerfs you. Business as usual the second the cameras are turned off.

Jobs is brilliant, sure. But nobody likes two-faced crap that sounds like a politician.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Then this DRM nonsense happens a week or two later. DRM is optional for the resellers to add into their music. In no way is it legally required, though the record labels of course request it - probably for a nice kickback as is typical in the industry(trust me - I know - it's the entertainment industry's version of a Mafia). Jobs is touting DRM as bad and so on and yet... no change at all to how Itunes nerfs you. Business as usual the second the cameras are turned off.

Jobs is brilliant, sure. But nobody likes two-faced crap that sounds like a politician.

There is no law requiring DRM however he is legally bound by the contract aggrement he signed with the record companines to require DRM. If he wants to continue offer their products on his website he has to play by their rules.