What does the rest of the world think of Canada?

[RDClip]

In the spirit of all similar posts, I'd like to know what people think of my home and native land: Canada.

To many Americans we are a joke or a land of ice and hockey, but I'd like to see what real people think.

[koku]

well, though some Americans joke around about things like

-second rate USA
-bunch of "frenchies"
-hockey lovers


Most of us have the compromising and objective enough mind to know it's all jokes. I bet you guys kick ass; although, a buddy of mine's told me all of his canadian economic books talked about how much America's economy sucks compared to Canada's.

Now that's just harsh! :P

I'm from MN so we're like neighboors.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

As a fellow Canadian, I think Americans think we're the ones who stole the Medals at the 2002 Winter Olympic Games.

Oh, the good ol' Hockey game, is the best game you can play, and the best game you can name, is the Good ol' Hockey Game!

[Deadhead]

o many Americans we are a joke or a land of ice and hockey, but I'd like to see what real people think.

So Americans arent real people?

[B RoCkS1010]

i like to make jokes about canada but i actually like it there...i visited there last summer or maybe it was two summers ago...i dont really remeber but i do rember having "fun"

[akitaka]

Real snow. I think that's one reason for me to go up there.

Friends. I have some long-distance buddies who have their barbeque parties, while I sit here and shake my head in envy.

Despite these reasons I can't say I have an opinion or hard fact on Canada at all, except for the wonderful hiking trip I went to when I was about 12 years old.

One question I have is this: is Manitoba really "friendly"?

[Bob]

Ive met 5 canadians that weren't douchebags.

[Marblehead]

To be honest, I really almost never think about Canada. I think about cantaloupe more often than I think about Canada.

[Rogue_7]

Canada is cool. I've been there several times, most recently to Vancouver last week. They have such nice, clean cities, and I've never met a Canadian I didn't like. I do find myself totally amused by the use of 'eh' though. Of course give it a few days and pretty soon I start saying to too. argh!

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Dude, I'm from Vancouver!

It's weird though, you know, British Columbia's population majority is basically 80% and growing.

Being a Filipino-Viet, it's not really hard to see at least 20 Asian people at the bus stops and all.

My old school is 90% Asian (as it used to be an All-Jewish private school).

[Collapse]

They think it is all a waste of time. Bullshit. Come to Vancouver and meet me, and I'll make it worthwhile, somewhat.

[Yoshiko]

I don't have a problem with Canada. All of the people from Canada I've met aren't bad.

[RDClip]

I don't have a problem with Canada. All of the people from Canada I've met aren't bad.
Just to clarify, we are not all friendly happy people. I'm an asshole and I know many Canadian assholes.

[Kaji]

To be honest, I really almost never think about Canada. I think about cantaloupe more often than I think about Canada.

I think that's kind of the way Canada operates. Hard to get in trouble on the world stage if you're everybody's afterthought, no?

[RDClip]

I think that's kind of the way Canada operates. Hard to get in trouble on the world stage if you're everybody's afterthought, no?
Yes that is our plan. You will soon be bowing down to your Canadian overlords under the oppressive Maple Leaf ;)

[Joe]

Canada > U.S.

Canada is an amazing country, and despite it's problems, is still way better than America.

Many americans are pig headed, stupid, loud, and you'd do best to shut off all trade with us. Many Americans think that we "let" you stay here. It's ridiculous. Many americans think that we could invade you and win. Bullshit. Canada has a ton of fire arms, in the hands of civilians, and we'd have one fuck of a fight on our hands. In fact, do us a favor and take us over. ...Please?

Embargo us, and see how long we last without you. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when that bastard Bush crawls through the border on his knees, begging for your Oil, and other natural resources.

If this world is going to get anywhere, from conservation, to humanitariansim, to basic civil rights! Europe and Canada are going to need to lead the way.

[Bob]

Canada > U.S.

Canada is an amazing country, and despite it's problems, is still way better than America.

Many americans are pig headed, stupid, loud, and you'd do best to shut off all trade with us. Many Americans think that we "let" you stay here. It's ridiculous. Many americans think that we could invade you and win. Bullshit. Canada has a ton of fire arms, in the hands of civilians, and we'd have one fuck of a fight on our hands. In fact, do us a favor and take us over. ...Please?

Embargo us, and see how long we last without you. I think you'll be pleasantly suprised when that bastard Bush crawls through the border on his knees, begging for your Oil, and other natural resources.

If this world is going to get anywhere, from conservation, to humanitariansim, to basic civil right! Europe and Canada need to lead the way.

America could easily destroy canada. But if we did that, we would run out of syrup and stuff

[Kaji]

America could easily destroy canada. But if we did that, we would run out of syrup and stuff

And bad beer, although I don't know how much of a loss that would be. Irish are the only people who know how to brew a good beer. Black as coffee.

[Joe]

America could easily destroy anything. But simply nuking something is NOT TACTICALLY SOUND. The infrastructure, and resources that were the primary goal will be lost.

America has enough Nuclear firearms to turn this entire planet into a smoldering rock, a few times over.

[Kustom]

I like Canada and what it stands for. Never been there, but I met many Canadians and liked most of them, althought I do know a couple of major assholes. Stupidity knows no borders...

On the negative side if there has to be one, I think some Canadians I know err a little too far on the political correctness side and could relax more. Also, there is this kind of rampant, moderate anti-US chauvinism illustrated in Molson's adds (it strikes me even though I am not American). I'm not sure how widespread it is among real Canadian people though.

[Bob]

Every canadian ive met thinks american citizens control the government



I hope napalm is involved when those bitches get invaded

[Anubis Nine]

Just wait till California runs out of water drinkable water for their population. BC is supposed to give/sell them water when it does.

I like my country, but I think it could be run better. (Yes, I complain)

[Pretentious]

To many Americans we are a joke or a land of ice and hockey, but I'd like to see what real people think.

You think that's an American thing huh? Man, it's WORLD WIDE BABY!

[PiccoloNamek]

America could easily destroy anything. But simply nuking something is NOT TACTICALLY SOUND. The infrastructure, and resources that were the primary goal will be lost.

America has enough Nuclear firearms to turn this entire planet into a smoldering rock, a few times over.

Well, you could always use neutron bombs. The explosion is still pretty big, but a high altitude detonation would disperse most of the blast effects, while frying anything that's alive with intense neutron emissions.

[Tssss..]

i ADORE canada. well, the west coast part of it anyway....i'm not so sure about the east coast....

regardless, its beautiful in vancouver area. i adore it there. i go twice a year. :) normally...anyway, the people are fabulous, the weather is great (when it isn't raining) and its just....beautiful.

on the other hand, i think their economy is shit. no offense. its getting better though, so i'm much encouraged. :)

[Praetorian]

How can one 'think' an economy is shit? You either know it's shit or you don't. It's not really a personal opinion.

[Kaji]

An economy can be strong, but the foundation weak, in which case it's appropriate to say that one thinks it's shit because they see it as being at risk of collapse.

[Praetorian]

Ah I see. Thank you.

[Katiekoneko]

I love living in Canada..and I would rather live here than in the U.S
and.. well, I do.
It isnt meant rudely. Just a preference.

[harper]

Canada - that's what they call the northern part of the United States, isn't it? :D

Seriously, though, I really like Canada. I live right across Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River from Canada. I've also traveled to every province other than Newfoundland and have found most of the people to be very friendly.

I did find it amusing one time when I was looking for souvenirs to bring back for friends and I ran across a bottle of Northern Comfort (maple syrup). The girl working in the store had never heard of Southern Comfort (whiskey). Of course, I'd never heard of Northern Comfort before either, but I couldn't imagine drinking a bottle of maple syrup to try and forget about my problems. I wouldn't drink SoCo either, but still.

[Ev0]

I love Canada. It's very similar to the US in many areas, but there seems to be much fewer right wing Christian Coalition types running around, screwing everything up.

Oh yeah, and Toronto is teeming with assholes. From what I've seen, people in Canada are very nice, except in Toronto where being a self centered jerk seems to be the norm (although there are some very nice, thoughtful people in Toronto, although they seem to be few and far between).

[Roxie]

i like canada.

i've been to ontario twice, it was very pretty.

everyone i've met from canada have been nice, funny, and sweet.

However, I do think it so strange when they give their opinions on America...It's like I don't really think of them as forgieners...until they say "about" that is. ;P

[Pfalzer]

I've visited there the girls are very nice there. Me likey Canada!

[Anubis Nine]

Toronto is the land of Jerks and maple syrup, I'm not sure about the jerks, it's been a while since I'be been there but if I go by my cousins and relatives there.. oi. (Lots of maple stuff though)

Northern comfort... >.> I actually did drink maple syrup straight when I was young. Till my parents started catching me at it. (Of course I was about four at the time) I still love the stuff. ^^

I'm glad I live in British Columbia and not Ontario. (Sorry to anyone that lives in Ontario. o.o)

[Jay]

I love Canada. I don't give a rat's arse for the administration because I don't care one way or another. I just want to visit because of the scenery and women.

[setrict]

I love your bacon.

I'd never talked with anyone from Canada before a few years ago, and then found myself surrounded by them in an online community. I've learned that:


Most Canadians have a pretty good sense of humor
Canada does have religious fundamentalists, but the god they worship is hockey.
Gravy does NOT go with fries, they're just trying to **** with us.
They don't call it Canadian bacon up there
Science/Technology seems to be a more respected occupation, where as in the US it seems repected only in so far as it can be used to make money.
It seems like quite a few Canadians come to the US to earn money for a while after school, and then return to Canada to settle down.
Much more liberal in social/socialist policy than the in the US, but at the same time seem fairly individualistic.


All in all, I think Canada is one of the nicer states; I think we should keep it. :p (Joking for the few of you Canadians that don't have a sense of humor).

[Anubis Nine]

*Holds head* My braiinnnnnn. There aren't a lot of education systems I'd stick my kids in besides the Canadian one despite my complaints about it. Not a lot of countries I'd raise my kids in besides Canada.

[AssButt.]

Canada is basically the same as the US, except fewer varieties of soft drinks and better politics.

[Samwise]

Canada? I prefer Mountain Dew really.

[Collapse]

on the other hand, i think their economy is shit. no offense. its getting better though, so i'm much encouraged. :)

You seem to forget that Vancouver is a tourist area, so everything's taxed to hell.

[Katiekoneko]

I dont say the word "about" weirdly
and have still yet to meet another canadian who does..
I think its a newfie things or something...

[RDClip]

I dont say the word "about" weirdly
and have still yet to meet another canadian who does..
I think its a newfie things or something...
I don't talk 'Canadian' because I grew up right across the boarder from a major American city.

[unoriginal_cyn]

Gravy does NOT go with fries, they're just trying to **** with us.


Gravy DOES go with fries. And cheese curds. Mmm, artery-clogging goodness.

The one thing I hate about being Canadian is that when I tell other, non-Canadian people (eg American, British, Australian) that I'm from Canada, their usual response is, "Oh really? Where in Canada? Toronto? Vancouver?" Now, I'm from neither of those places but that isn't the point. The thing that really gets me is that these people try to guess where I'm from, maybe to try and prove that that know something about Canada. However this backfires since, unfortunately for them, Canada does not soley consist of these two cities. It's not like I would say to an American, "You're from the States? Where from? San Francisco? New York?"

And even though I realize not everyone's Canadian geography is up to par, I still can't help but laugh when people say "Halifax? Is that, like, right outside of Toronto?"

[Joe]

Gravy DOES go with fries. And cheese curds. Mmm, artery-clogging goodness.

The one thing I hate about being Canadian is that when I tell other, non-Canadian people (eg American, British, Australian) that I'm from Canada, their usual response is, "Oh really? Where in Canada? Toronto? Vancouver?" Now, I'm from neither of those places but that isn't the point. The thing that really gets me is that these people try to guess where I'm from, maybe to try and prove that that know something about Canada. However this backfires since, unfortunately for them, Canada does not soley consist of these two cities. It's not like I would say to an American, "You're from the States? Where from? San Francisco? New York?"

And even though I realize not everyone's Canadian geography is up to par, I still can't help but laugh when people say "Halifax? Is that, like, right outside of Toronto?"


I can't believe that's one of your buttons. Incidentally, where are you from in canada? Toronto? Vancouver?

[RDClip]

Gravy DOES go with fries. And cheese curds. Mmm, artery-clogging goodness.

The one thing I hate about being Canadian is that when I tell other, non-Canadian people (eg American, British, Australian) that I'm from Canada, their usual response is, "Oh really? Where in Canada? Toronto? Vancouver?" Now, I'm from neither of those places but that isn't the point. The thing that really gets me is that these people try to guess where I'm from, maybe to try and prove that that know something about Canada. However this backfires since, unfortunately for them, Canada does not soley consist of these two cities. It's not like I would say to an American, "You're from the States? Where from? San Francisco? New York?"

And even though I realize not everyone's Canadian geography is up to par, I still can't help but laugh when people say "Halifax? Is that, like, right outside of Toronto?"

Yes, we have the 2nd largest land mass in the world, but we all live in either Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, or Halifax.

[unoriginal_cyn]

I can't believe that's one of your buttons. Incidentally, where are you from in canada? Toronto? Vancouver?
ARRRG! Me want to smashy things! :p

And RDClip, I've never met a non-Canadian person who even knew where Halifax was (I met one guy who thought it was a place in Russia...but then again, he was likely drunk at the time), let alone assumed that it was one of the cities that all Canadians lived in.

[harper]

I like how people can drive to Prince Edward Island for free, but have to pay $35-$40 or so to drive off the island. Halifax was nice when I visited it. It was raining, though, so it could have been better.

[KujiInRetsu]

I'd heard there was a large Chinese community living in Vancouver. If at all, that will be the reason I move to Canada if the right wing takes a stranglehold on power in the United States.

[Katiekoneko]

There are more asian than french ppl in Canada
Vancouver and Toronto have the most..
I find it funny that ppl think of Canada and think alot of us are french (well Not everyone..but alot of ppl seem to think that)
Most of us don't speak it fluently..
And the people who do, don't seem to want to be part of Canada anymore.

[Roxie]

I dont say the word "about" weirdly
and have still yet to meet another canadian who does..
I think its a newfie things or something...
Yes you do. You just don't know it.

[ruaidhri]

Like most people from the United States, I know very little about Canada. I’ve been in Canada several times during my life. I went to Niagara Falls twice with my parents when I was a kid. When I was in the Coast Guard stationed in Seattle, WA, I went to Vancouver on a weekend liberty pass. My Coast Guard ship also went to Victoria. All of those visits occurred in the 1950’s and 1960’s. My last trip to Canada was to Montreal and Quebec in 1982 with my wife and son.

I know I always enjoyed my visits. I know that many people in Quebec would like to separate from Canada. I know that Canada is far more liberal than America. I understand that their taxes are higher than ours but then they have universal health care and we don’t. I believe Canada does not have the same level of “red necks” as does the United States. I know that many of my countrymen fled to Canada to escape the Vietnam War. I know that many Democrats threaten to leave the United States and live in Canada if their candidate for President loses. I don’t know anyone that’s actually carried through on the threat.

Actually, I believe Canada would be a pretty nice place to live. What’s particularly nice about Canada is that they are not a world power. I don’t believe they want to be. I certainly wish to visit Canada again.

Personally, I’m very happy that we have Canada as our neighbor to the North.

[Tssss..]

How can one 'think' an economy is shit? You either know it's shit or you don't. It's not really a personal opinion.

i THINK its shit because technically there is nothing dramatically wrong with it, i just think it could do with some improvements.

so perhaps it would be better to say it could be improved upon rather than saying its shitty.

ass. :)

[kyaa the catlord]

Canada is hard to mail anime to...

That is all.

[Katiekoneko]

Yes you do. You just don't know it.

No
Im sorry.. :mad:
ppl KNOW if they are saying "a-boot" or abOWWWWWt..
about.
not a freakin boot
I hate this so much.

I dont say it..and Ive met americans and they were like "why dont you say it?"
No one in my town or any other towns Ive been to say it either.
I think its a select few..maybe near the border or something
and then the rest are def. newfies..

(I hate the edit button!!!)

[Kustom]

And the people who do, don't seem to want to be part of Canada anymore.

So what's this thing between Quebec and the rest of the country? Is it a language dispute, or does the faultline go deeper than that?

[Katiekoneko]

So what's this thing between Quebec and the rest of the country? Is it a language dispute, or does the faultline go deeper than that?

I cant really speak for their side..
but it seems they just want to be independant from us... but still want to use our money?
I dont think its about a language dispute. Because there are alot of english/french speaking canadians living there. Or at least I met alot who spoke both instead of just french.
The ppl I met there were also nice and didnt seem to hate me cuz I was from ont. but Ive heard from others they don't like us??
Its so confusing.
I remember in like grade 7 or 8 (I am 22 now..so that was a while ago)
I had to write a paper about the Quebec refferendum (sp)
weird.

And I remember in grade 4 going to Florida and staying in a condo that said something about how Quebec ppl don't tip. It was actually on one of their papers. It was very odd.

So pretty much I dont know. And I gave you alot of blabbermouth talk.

[Kustom]

I used to work with a colleague from Quebec. I didn't really understand his point, but it was something like English Canadians had been exploiting French Canadians in earlier history, plus they were leaning towards the US too much. Something along those lines.

[Katiekoneko]

weird.
I find their views..when told to others- and then when hearing it
or reading it..
make no sense (did what I just write make sense even?! *lol*)

Maybe we make no sense to them.

[RDClip]

I used to work with a colleague from Quebec. I didn't really understand his point, but it was something like English Canadians had been exploiting French Canadians in earlier history, plus they were leaning towards the US too much. Something along those lines.
The separatists from Quebec are full of shit. They have all these crazy laws about 'preserving their culture' and thus everything has to be in French. So, many major companies left Quebec because of their language laws. One could say they are more pissy about French than the actual French.

But, if they did separate, they would be in the shit. The only province that could exist on their own is Ontario. (but, if we left the rest of the country would crumble)

[Katiekoneko]

I kind of agree
but its probably cuz Im from Ontario
So maybe Im bias.
I think we could be on our own..but Idont think we would be or will..ever.

[Kustom]

The separatists from Quebec are full of shit. They have all these crazy laws about 'preserving their culture' and thus everything has to be in French. So, many major companies left Quebec because of their language laws. One could say they are more pissy about French than the actual French.


Take it from an actual Frenchman, they are.
Althought, is it true or not that they were second-rate citizens before the 20th Century? And why do you think separatism is so popular in Quebec if it's all BS? Political manipulation?

It seems that there is so little communication between both sides of the country that they might as well be separated...

[DarkFire168]

I hate Canada. Two worthwhile things come out of Canada. Ridiculously hot porn stars (OMG SHELBY BELLE! >.<) and poorly dubbed anime. The second might not even be worthwhile in context.

[Jormungand]

canada sucks more than new jersey and thats sayin somtin

[NERD]

Canada has superior medical insurance coverage. Meaning they don't have to worry whether their hospitals cover HMO, does this illness qualify for insurance, etc.

And they do have some good environmental policy- which isn't too hard since there's barely anyone living there. I kid!

[Collapse]

I find it rather shitty to generalize about Vancouver's economy. Hey maybe if you convince Campbell's ass out of the office, then maybe we can see some work, 'no?

No. Vancouver is still a tourist area, so prices are pretty high up here. Don't go whining about it.

[Roxie]

No
Im sorry.. :mad:
ppl KNOW if they are saying "a-boot" or abOWWWWWt..
about.
not a freakin boot
I hate this so much.

I dont say it..and Ive met americans and they were like "why dont you say it?"
No one in my town or any other towns Ive been to say it either.
I think its a select few..maybe near the border or something
and then the rest are def. newfies..

(I hate the edit button!!!)
everyone I've met from Ontario says "aboot". It's true! You can't deny it!

[scan2001]

I'm from Ontario and I don't say "aboot". It like saying that most americans say "axe" instaed of "ask".

[Katiekoneko]

YA!
there we go
another Ontario-ian
agrees
We dont say it.
Ya.. all americans say Crick instead of creek.
well it HAS to be true because every american I MET has said it.

:P

[Roxie]

oh, the ones who say "crick" are probably from Boston/NY.

Everyone else says creek or creak.

besides, can't you tell I'm teasing? ;)

[Trump]

Canada, a place with several different, unique combinations of different cultures. Like America the culture there was derived from other places. When I think about it I think... (except for the couple cities) rural. The technology is there, just very spread out. It is strikingly beautiful, but very empty at the same time. The funnies thing I saw while in Nova Scotia was a street sign that said "?" with an arrow to the left. They apparently don't know what is that way? That made me laugh! =)

[Katiekoneko]

oh, the ones who say "crick" are probably from Boston/NY.

Everyone else says creek or creak.

besides, can't you tell I'm teasing? ;)

*lol*
ya..
but it still bugs the hell out of me!1

hee hee hee

[Masa the Masta]

*lol*
ya..
but it still bugs the hell out of me!1

hee hee hee

I personally have no problems with Canada. Canada sounds like a pretty happening place, with the good medical, though I do have a Canadian friend who told me it took his Grandmother 2 years to get her hip surgery... :( how excrutiating. Misfortunes of everyone getting hurt simultaneously I guess.

The only thing I'd have to say that sort of irks me about Canada, are the people that are HEAVILY biased historically to it. Like Napoleon said, "What is history but a lie agreed upon?" No joke, but according to someone I know from Canada (His name is Curtis), he says that Canada sent the majority of troops at D-day (I'm waiting for the Canadians on this boards to reply, "...Didn't they?" ), and literally did most of the work in WWII. Now, I know the U.S isn't biased, but what ever happened to the million troops we sent in Britain..? :confused:

Anyway, I don't mind Canadians talking about history, that is until they try to assert TOTAL superiority on us. (A lovely little debate is fine, Canada is right and U.S is wrong idealism isn't. IMO neither party is, but we're allowed to make compromises.)

But yeah, I dated a hot pinay girl from Canada for 2 years. It was pretty cool 'eh? :p

[Ev0]

About the aboot thing (pun intended), I've lived in Ontario my entire life, and I've never heard anyone say aboot outside of a joke. Heck, I've even met a few people from Newfoundland (the people who are supposed to say it), and even they don't say aboot (although I'm sure the ones with really thick accents do say it).

Really, the whole aboot thing is a myth. But lots of us do say eh.

[RDClip]

I personally have no problems with Canada. Canada sounds like a pretty happening place, with the good medical, though I do have a Canadian friend who told me it took his Grandmother 2 years to get her hip surgery... :( how excrutiating. Misfortunes of everyone getting hurt simultaneously I guess.

The only thing I'd have to say that sort of irks me about Canada, are the people that are HEAVILY biased historically to it. Like Napoleon said, "What is history but a lie agreed upon?" No joke, but according to someone I know from Canada (His name is Curtis), he says that Canada sent the majority of troops at D-day (I'm waiting for the Canadians on this boards to reply, "...Didn't they?" ), and literally did most of the work in WWII. Now, I know the U.S isn't biased, but what ever happened to the million troops we sent in Britain..? :confused:

Anyway, I don't mind Canadians talking about history, that is until they try to assert TOTAL superiority on us. (A lovely little debate is fine, Canada is right and U.S is wrong idealism isn't. IMO neither party is, but we're allowed to make compromises.)

But yeah, I dated a hot pinay girl from Canada for 2 years. It was pretty cool 'eh? :p

I've never heard that thing about WW2. We Canadians like to remember how we were in the war 2 years before America decided to join.

[Ev0]

Canada did not send the majority of troops on D-Day. It would have been either the British or the Americans, since they had two beaches a piece while Canada just had Juno beach. I have no idea about exact numbers, but it's impossible to land more troops on one beach head than on two. Although, the Canadian contingent was the only group able to accomplish all of their goals on the first day (some of this was likely due to the fact they were facing inexperienced reserve troops, unlike the dedicated, experienced defenders at Omaha beach).

Another interesting fact. After the end of WWII, Canada had the world's 4th largest military, behind the USSR, USA, and Great Britain.

[Kintaro]

There are more asian than french ppl in Canada
Vancouver and Toronto have the most..
I find it funny that ppl think of Canada and think alot of us are french (well Not everyone..but alot of ppl seem to think that)
Most of us don't speak it fluently..
And the people who do, don't seem to want to be part of Canada anymore.
http://142.206.72.67/02/02a/02a_007_e.htm
Snippet: "In 2001, a total of 59% of Canadians reported English as their first language, 23% reported French and 18% reported a non-official tongue. Of the non-official languages, Chinese was the most often reported, [...]"
Retort: And this allows you to say that there are more Chinese than French in Canada... the data proves you wrong, Canada is more than the sum-total of Toronto and Vancouver. Maybe if you got to know Canadians more...
EDIT2: Ooh, you said Asians, are you actually referring to all Asians (from Kuwait to Kamchatcka) or Orientals only? Either way, you may be "right", but then there's still the fallacy that you're comparing ONE ethnic group to anywhere from 10 to 80...

I used to work with a colleague from Quebec. I didn't really understand his point, but it was something like English Canadians had been exploiting French Canadians in earlier history, plus they were leaning towards the US too much. Something along those lines.
Good start, but it's way more than that, but to correct the last bit, it's not because the people are inclined to think and do like Amercians, but because our economy and government was heavily tilted in a manner that was inequitable for us. The institutions in place (the Catholic Church, British Empire, tyrants both for centralized federalism and the ones who sold us out (i.e. Duplessis giving near-free resources to the US for an eighth of their worth)) are what we want changed. We want our own.

The separatists from Quebec are full of shit. They have all these crazy laws about 'preserving their culture' and thus everything has to be in French. So, many major companies left Quebec because of their language laws. One could say they are more pissy about French than the actual French.

But, if they did separate, they would be in the shit. The only province that could exist on their own is Ontario. (but, if we left the rest of the country would crumble)
Retort: Good job, if only you could pull off this kind of ad hominem attack in a philosophy forum. What's next, calling French Canadians fags ?
While the first is pure attack, let's analyze the second bit: Your assumption was probably valid until about 5 years ago. Once the cost of raw energy reached a certain point (about when oil was at 35-40$ a barrel), were Quebec not suffering from the federal fiscal imbalance (Even Charest (Quebec federalist Premier) acknowledges this) Quebec could survive turning surpluses just as regularly as Canada, the order was of 1.5-2 G$ (giga=billion) which is about (oops) 20-25 % of Canada's current surplus.
This is also keeping in mind that Quebec HAS NO OIL domestically.

Snippet1: [...]Althought, is it true or not that they were second-rate citizens before the 20th Century?[...]

Snippet2: [...]It seems that there is so little communication between both sides of the country that they might as well be separated...
Reply1: Some would say until 1960, some of course victimize themselves too much and would say they still are today. Duplessis' death (1959), and then the nationalization projects (Hydro-Quebec), and rebuilding of government (There was no Ministry of Education until 1963-65)... Too much to say, check excerpt at bottom.
Reply2: We have proof in this thread that some aren't able to effectively, and some plainly don't want to.

My actual post:
The outside world would like to think of Canada as the international peacekeeper, trying to advance issues like human rights across the globe. A multicultural society that does not adhere to melting pot theory. Pots, kettles, microwaves and rice cookers can all coexist. But everybody has their own view of things, and even though this may reach consensus, outsiders have their own views on Canada.
The inside world of Canada is that it's so heterogenous that it's not funny. People across English canada are fundamentally different. (what's common about an Albertan wheat farmer, and a Maritime firsherman = they both use the same money ?) What makes people think that English and French Canadians "the same" is totally ludicrous. Not only is the situation different, but the cultural identity is different. There, I said it, it's not a de facto language divide, it's a cultural one.

As for sovereignty, we already feel at home. Short of deporting Quebecers, we're here. Canada is a union in itself. Maybe in the future, that union would be similar to the European union. Therefore, any attacks on the use of Canadian money is a moot point. How many nations use the US dollar (or directly pegged currencies at an exchange rate of 1.000) ?
The slogan of the sixties was "Masters at Home", we have no chain around the necks of the rest of Canada, and we find it insulting when people think we're meant to have one. That, and the whole resentment of "Speak white" mentality is shared amongst Quebecers of all stripes.
-=I say this as a Franco-Ontarian turned Anglo-Quebecer. While I could just say "since I get retro-citizenship to the rest of Canada, I don't care.", it's not true. I do care, and even when Quebec becomes a self-affirmed nation (who knows, even 3 years from now is a possibility), I'll still be speaking and thinking in English, maybe not so fluent Japanese, Mandarin as well. Take a history manual from High School (that related from 1500 to today) from Ontario and Quebec (yes, even english ones) and you'd notice there is one hell of a difference.=-

I leave this thread knowing it has been horribly derailed by others and that I'm not reversing the trend, at least I'll do a good job of showing the contempt for foreign aggression into Quebec's economic rebirth:
Excerpt of The Nine Nations of America, the Quebec chapter: http://www.garreau.com/main.cfm?action=chapters&id=47
One of the foremost "radicals" pushing the creation of Hydro Quebec in the early sixties later said, "I remember this middle-level executive [at one of the companies about to be nationalized] saying, 'Do you people really think you can run this company as well as we can?' He was so filled with contempt. Of course he was English-speaking and the company was English-owned, as they all were. I remember thinking, `You bloody so-and-so. You're just like the British were a few years ago, saying the Egyptians could never run the Suez Canal.' It was the same paternalistic contempt - the colonial master speaking to the backward native. 'We'll show you, you bastard,' l thought."

[RDClip]

I and most of the country still stand by our belief that Quebec is part of the COUNTRY of Canada. What exactly makes Quebec feel like they are so special, anyway? Their 'culture' is one that represents stubborn and bull headed idealism. They seem to be competely terrified that their culture is being eaten away at by the rest of Canada. Their culture and the separitist beliefs are what spawn the FLQ, the terrorist orgainization.

Anyway it didn't matter, last time I checked Ottawa was kissing Quebec's ass just to keep them happy.

[Kintaro]

RDClip: The only thing you got right is that Quebec is part of Canada. It still will be for a while. Your references to bull headed idealism could easily be reflected on Toronto's inhabitants (and probably anywhere else, where do you live?), and some posters in this thread have already made the reference without me prompting them.

And by throwing FLQ in a discussion like this, you're looking for cheap outs. Since 1971, Quebecers know that they can't gain independence by firebombing it. The FLQ is extinct, save for some of which are mentally deranged to attacking Second Cups and McDonald's even in 2001. Painting 7.5 million people with that brush is like telling the billion muslims that they're all terrorists. So try using arguments for debates, instead of attacks based purely on ethnicity. Were Quebec majorly black, you'd be painted a racist, and justly so. Discrimination is more than just skin color.

Remember that I am an anglophone, and that I know what linguistic discrimination is. I would not be for a nation that discriminates against anglophones. (And before you use Bill 101, since you know so much about Quebec apparently, wouldn't you think it's normal to ask for a business to be functional in the common language of the area ? What use is a store that only speaks Romanian for example, you'd expect at least some English in Ontario or BC... Quebec just leglislated that exact desire, but in french for a french-speaking society.)

[Josh]

I like Canada. Their economy is awesome. But then again, they dont put so much into their military spending because America and Canada are tight. Its predicted by 2013 Canada wont have an army anymore. Yet another nation under the US's "protection." *cough*Drafting Pool*cough*

[DarkFire168]

I like Canada. Their economy is awesome. But then again, they dont put so much into their military spending because America and Canada are tight. Its predicted by 2013 Canada wont have an army anymore. Yet another nation under the US's "protection." *cough*Drafting Pool*cough*

I can only hope so, because then we can tape them to the hummers to improve the armor plating. And maple syrup is pointless, eat your flap jacks like a real man, without all that fancy crap.

[Masa the Masta]

I've never heard that thing about WW2. We Canadians like to remember how we were in the war 2 years before America decided to join.

I'd like to think back then America was taking the current canadian way of doing things: Staying out of it...that is, until things got personal. (Of course we were already having skirmishes along the atlantic well before Pearl Harbor...but anyway)

Anyway, I think we should all worry about one thing: We won, Hitler lost. Good times. :D

Japan? Look what happened when they tried to defy the Gaijin Smash. It was EX Gaijin threat cancelled into Yagyou Odama Gaijin Anihalation x2, followed shortly thereafter with Nihongo surrender strike (But the Emperor dethrone slash was parried. :p )

WOW I'm so off topic. Anyway, Canada's nice. I'd like to go there sometime. Besides the big tourist attraction cities, what are some more remote places that are nice to go to? I'd like to know, since I think it'd be cool to go see cool peaky mountains and snow. ;)

I live for touge. Rawr.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Vancouver: Nice views, good city landscape, Van-Asia (considering the population is 60-80% Asian)
Edmonton: Really awesome Entertainment Mall there, it has a large swimming pool area, great stores, nice entertainment stuff going around there, there's even a THEME PARK inside it
Toronto: I never been to Toronto, somebody write this one up

[Kustom]

RDClip: The only thing you got right is that Quebec is part of Canada. It still will be for a while. Your references to bull headed idealism could easily be reflected on Toronto's inhabitants (and probably anywhere else, where do you live?), and some posters in this thread have already made the reference without me prompting them.

And by throwing FLQ in a discussion like this, you're looking for cheap outs. Since 1971, Quebecers know that they can't gain independence by firebombing it. The FLQ is extinct, save for some of which are mentally deranged to attacking Second Cups and McDonald's even in 2001. Painting 7.5 million people with that brush is like telling the billion muslims that they're all terrorists. So try using arguments for debates, instead of attacks based purely on ethnicity. Were Quebec majorly black, you'd be painted a racist, and justly so. Discrimination is more than just skin color.

Remember that I am an anglophone, and that I know what linguistic discrimination is. I would not be for a nation that discriminates against anglophones. (And before you use Bill 101, since you know so much about Quebec apparently, wouldn't you think it's normal to ask for a business to be functional in the common language of the area ? What use is a store that only speaks Romanian for example, you'd expect at least some English in Ontario or BC... Quebec just leglislated that exact desire, but in french for a french-speaking society.)

This makes sense, however I heard from a friend who lived in Quebec that signs are written only in French, not bilingual. This would be discriminating against the English-speaking minority.

To RDClip: It doesn't matter if people from Quebec are being too idealistic, if that's what they believe in it's their right. What if I start saying "hockey is a shitty sport, it has nothing to do with culture, give up watching that crap already! It's pointless!"? I'm sure you wouldn't let that fly. So what if people from Quebec don't share your culture? Why should they ditch theirs and adopt yours?

[kyaa the catlord]

My girlfriend is Canadian, that's why noone has ever seen her.

[Psychochink]

Speaking from a foreign perspective: Canada is pretty much like America, only better. Don't get all bent out of shape, it's a pretty common attitude, at least here in Australia.

Waitagoddamnminute, you Yanks don't have chips and gravy?!? You're kidding me! Why on earth would anyone not want to get deep-fried potatoes, and then add more fatty, gravy goodness?

Seriously, is there any (savoury) food that gravy cannot improve?

[Kustom]

Yes, I can concur with what Psychochink is saying. Pretty much everywhere I go, and I travelled a lot, people have a positive view of Canadians... Unless they mistake them for Americans, which for one reason or another are definitely not as popular, especially in recent years.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

In a recent survey, Canada's now populated 60% Asians living in Canada.

Yeah, We, Canada trade Quebec for USA's Florida.

... BUT WE KEEP THE POUTINES.

:D :D

[Roxie]

:confused: You keep the what?

[RDClip]

:confused: You keep the what?
Poutine. It's a wonderously artery clogging dish of french fires, gravy, and cheese curds.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Why on earth would anyone not want to get deep-fried potatoes, and then add more fatty, gravy goodness?

Seriously, is there any (savoury) food that gravy cannot improve?

French Fries drenched in gravy and cheese for fat-inducing goodness. :D :D

[Roxie]

OH. that nasty shit.

Yeah you can keep that, along with your so-called "bacon". It's limp, I bet it's not the only that is....
























;)

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

NASTY SHIT?!

TAIS TOIS! TU AS FOU, SALOPE-TOI!!!

.... Je ne sais pas..

[Roxie]

Hey now!

I didn't call you any names.

Remember, my father is FLUENT in French.

[Katiekoneko]

poutines are GREAT!!!!!
so freakin great

and see!
60% asian ppl?
We got alot of asian ppl and alot of other ppl dont realise that.
Thats what I pretty much said before.

And as for canadian bacon.. I dont like any kind of bacon.
It gives me headaches smelling it cook
same with coffee and chocolate chip cookies baking
Bleh.

[setrict]

Holy crap, you're allergic to three of lifes simple pleasures!

[Katiekoneko]

Ya..
I like the taste of cookies
and wont touch the other too
I also hate drinking water.... which is a problem.

[Daishikaze]

I think the Great White North is the best place in like, the whole world to get a Toasted Back bacon sandwich with some Krullers, eh?

[Kustom]

NASTY SHIT?!

TAIS TOIS! TU AS FOU, SALOPE-TOI!!!

.... Je ne sais pas..


Ouch... I wish I didn't read that... You just wrote:
"Shut up! You have gay, bitch-you!!!"

Ok, here goes:
TAIS TOIS! TU ES FOLLE, SALOPE!!!
"Shut up! You're crazy, bitch!!!"

If you're gonna insult people at least make it correct!

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Isn't "Tu as" mean "You are"?

Ah, screw it, I'm just learning French.

Je suis Grade 10.

:D

[Kustom]

Isn't "Tu as" mean "You are"?

Ah, screw it, I'm just learning French.

Je suis Grade 10.

:D

Eh non! "Tu as" is "you have"
"Tu es" is "you are"

The biggest trap is that you say "j'ai" (I have) and the verb prononces the same way as in "Tu es / Il est" (you are/he is). They are 2 different verbes nonetheless...

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Eh non! "Tu as" is "you have"
"Tu es" is "you are"

The biggest trap is that you say "j'ai" (I have) and the verb prononces the same way as in "Tu es / Il est" (you are/he is). They are 2 different verbes nonetheless...

Ah, my mistake. That the most common one I make, since I keep on toying with the French Language.

If you were to be in my school, you'd notice me by going around saying, "Tu es stupide! Je suis intelligent!!" and my French teacher would go, "Oh, non, Christian! Tu es mal. Ferme ton/le bouche," or something like that.

[Kustom]

Sorry again, but "You're bad" doesn't translate in French... And we say "Ferme ta gueule" for shut up, not "ferme ta bouche", bouche is a feminine noun anyway so "ton/le" cannot be used...

What were we talking about anyway? Oh, yeah, Canada.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Trade Quebec for Florida.

We keep the Poutine, though.

[spaik]

quebec signs, others than government ones, do not need to have english on them, much like how the west coast does not need french on their signs, or require employees with french language aptitute. montreal requires bilingual signs as far as i know, but the employees generally dont speak english outside of very basic english, or english owned and run establishments.

on the FLQ, there was a lot of support for the FLQ and their actions during that time from quebec seperatists. it was due to the brutal nature of their actions and consequently, trudeau's actions as prime minister, that people realized that an independant quebec won through bloodshed and fire is not what they wanted. they wanted a constitutional and amiable seperation, like the independence of canada, rather than the bloody independence war of the united states. the fact that it ended this way and not the other, i can only attribute to the common sense and belief in the democratic system that the public felt, and for that i am glad. however the public did support the FLQ at the time, and thought that their actions were at the very least, partially justified. the debate about trudeau invoking martial law continues still, though i personally believe that he did the right thing.

canada as a multicultural society is certainly strange. people like to think of canada as a population of minorities unified under a common nation and its ideals, but the truth is far more ugly. the melting pot of the united states makes citizens with a strong sense of identity to the united states and what it stands for. canada appeals to new immigrants and forces them not to change. in vancouver, you can function as a chinese, persian or korean immigrant without ever having to learn any english at all throughout your entire lifetime. your dealings with the government such as taxes and such can be dealt with using translators or mediators. the problem arises with retention of culture by new immigrants, particularly adults. because adjusting to a new culture and fitting in is both hard and stressful, not a lot of people bother. these people have isolated social groups of their own common culture and nationality within major metropolitan areas. as such, they see no reason to expose themselves to the other cultures and mix outside of their own isolated social circles. as such, multicultural cities are not a homogeneous mix of multiple cultures, but with multiple isolated social circles, each independent of each other. this also invariably breeds nationalism for their own country and culture, as well as sparking racism when the different cultures clash. it isn't overt in nature, but much more passive aggressive, however, the underlying feelings are still there. people still feel more connected to their nationality as an immigrant than as a canadian. the schooling system homogenizes this a lot, as does the experience of growing up if you choose to experience the other cultures around you, but even so, you'll find many 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant families distance themselves from considering themselves a canadian national over their home country. the lack of a strong and unified national image for the canadian citizenship is both a byproduct and an ongoing contributing factor to this. is this better than the united states, i don't really know. people are people, and culture is strong. racism will exist everywhere, passive or aggressive. i can't say its any better than the melting pot system at this point however, and that the american system is oppresive and bad.

on the topic of medicare....ugh. don't get me wrong, i'm pretty socialist in terms of ideals, but medicare isn't working. it is far underfunded for what it needs to do. the system is overly bureaucratic, and a lot of money is wasted. the fact that people are abusing the system for going to the emergency room for every minor injury out there is just compounding it. both the system and the people who abuse it are draining the life out of it. the speed of medical care is ridiculous. the only options are to dump more money into a highly inefficient system to make it mean demand, revamp the entire system to make it more efficient, or privatize like the united states. dumping money into the system is a bad idea. revamping the system to make it more autocratic would be good, but still, the problem also lies in the populace abusing the nature of free medical care. privatizing would be a huge boon, but would displace the poor and i don't think that i want that. at this point, we are stuck with option 1 because we literally have no ideas how to improve it. people complain about medical care but don't understand that its a larger issue than just throwing money at it. all those in the united states that are envious of medicare, be careful what you wish for. medicare would be a huge disruption to the current medical system, and would force a large portion of doctors and medical staff to 'greener pastures' due to severe budget and salary limitations. compounded with a surge of poor people who would seek medical attention, your hospitals will be overflowing without the proper staff to support them. personally, i think that for the majority of people are better off in the american system of health care, if you can afford medical insurance. the only reason why i prefer medicare to the united states system is because i truely believe that a country should be looking after the health of the poor. two tiered medical care would be so nice to have, but the problem is, those who would have to pay would complain that it is unfair, which it is.

[RDClip]

on the topic of medicare....ugh. don't get me wrong, i'm pretty socialist in terms of ideals, but medicare isn't working. it is far underfunded for what it needs to do. the system is overly bureaucratic, and a lot of money is wasted. the fact that people are abusing the system for going to the emergency room for every minor injury out there is just compounding it. both the system and the people who abuse it are draining the life out of it. the speed of medical care is ridiculous. the only options are to dump more money into a highly inefficient system to make it mean demand, revamp the entire system to make it more efficient, or privatize like the united states. dumping money into the system is a bad idea. revamping the system to make it more autocratic would be good, but still, the problem also lies in the populace abusing the nature of free medical care. privatizing would be a huge boon, but would displace the poor and i don't think that i want that. at this point, we are stuck with option 1 because we literally have no ideas how to improve it. people complain about medical care but don't understand that its a larger issue than just throwing money at it. all those in the united states that are envious of medicare, be careful what you wish for. medicare would be a huge disruption to the current medical system, and would force a large portion of doctors and medical staff to 'greener pastures' due to severe budget and salary limitations. compounded with a surge of poor people who would seek medical attention, your hospitals will be overflowing without the proper staff to support them. personally, i think that for the majority of people are better off in the american system of health care, if you can afford medical insurance. the only reason why i prefer medicare to the united states system is because i truely believe that a country should be looking after the health of the poor. two tiered medical care would be so nice to have, but the problem is, those who would have to pay would complain that it is unfair, which it is.
Yeah health care here needs to be revamped. At least now (OHIP at least) is trying to prevent fruad with the new health cards.

My dad sells insurance. And as of the last few years private health insurance and critial illness insurance is getting really popular. With this if someone gets one of the serious illnesses they have the money to go out of country if they want and pay for treatment somewhere else.

I still can't understand why we have such caps on doctors saleries. We are losing so many doctors to the US, so they could get paid better. Of all the people I've talked to, each of their home towns have a shortage of MDs.

[spaik]

the caps are because so much money is lost in the system, that they cant afford to pay the doctors more. if they did, then medicare budgets would have to grow. the doctors that work here do so knowing that they are getting paid a mere fraction of what they would be paid in the states. more of them have issues with how much money they are allocated to run their clinics and hospitals rather than how much they are getting paid anyways. theres just not enough money to work the system.

[jaychou]

i was over seas in asia last summer and i find that people don't respect canada as much as lets say the US or England because of the lack of entertainment and military power / world influence.

however, i believe that canada is basically a safer, nicer, friendlier version of the US (generally), that enjoys a high quality of living standards, in education and health care. Its a very tolerant society and also respects minorities (for the most part)

we also enjoy many american benefits such as music, tv, protection in terms of military power yet without incurring the wrath of the world. free protection for the win??

the only thing i think canada lacks is business and commerce... and excitement haha, good place to relax but for work/big city entertainment, we're kinda lacking in that department

<3 canada

[Wysen]

we also enjoy many american benefits such as music, tv, protection in terms of military power yet without incurring the wrath of the world. free protection for the win??
Unless of course, someone nukes us, then you get to enjoy free fallout, thanks to the close proximity. ;)

[jaychou]

haha, oh well... it is fortunate that i live in vancouver... i didn't like toronto that much anyways! and we all know that nukes will be directed towards washington dc/nyc/east coast cities...

i mean who would want to nuke west coast USA? season 2 of "24" doesn't count neither :P

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

When French-Canadians eat too much poutine, they get major constipation. In a recent survey, 60% of Canadians with constipation problems are from Quebec.
And that, my friends is where the "Bloc Quebecois" derives from.

[Jon885]

When I went to Canada it seemed a lot cleaner than American, but I've only been to the tourist areas.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

American bathrooms even make our school look like the janitor's closet.

[ChrisK.]

I just signed up after reading all the comments about Quebec. I am from Quebec and most of the things that have been said are wrong.. Most of us dont want to separate from Canada. We are considered different because we speak another language but were still canadians. I've been to other canadian cities such as Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary, and I could tell you Montreal has the best atmosphere. Not because it's french but because of its people.

[spaik]

don't get me wrong, the seperatist movement isn't a majority, and that's one of the reasons why it hasn't happened yet. however, to say that there wasn't a visible and very much tangible amount of support for a seperatist movement is not arguable. if it was, the BQ would not hold as much power and clout in the government system today.

if anything, they have a decent case for canada shunning them. french-canadian culture is about the only culture that you can really associate with canada, nationally. the fact that it gets marginalized is an issue to a lot of people who think their heritage and culture is being trampled by 'westernization' and the strength of influence of media and culture from the english majority superpower to the south. canada is not embracing their history and culture nationally, whether the french canadian side or the native american side. one might argue that due to political correctness, that canada has doen more to preserve its native american heritage than the french canadian one. they don't want to see a government run by those who have never known french canada, just because the majority of canada is english. the national government legislates with french canadians as a minority, and applies them in quebec (along with elsewhere), where french canadians are the majority. canada, with its localized minority communities across the country, feel like their communities are being trampled on because locally, even when they are the majority, nationally, they aren't.

[DarkFire168]

on the FLQ, there was a lot of support for the FLQ and their actions during that time from quebec seperatists. it was due to the brutal nature of their actions and consequently, trudeau's actions as prime minister, that people realized that an independant quebec won through bloodshed and fire is not what they wanted. they wanted a constitutional and amiable seperation, like the independence of canada, rather than the bloody independence war of the united states. the fact that it ended this way and not the other, i can only attribute to the common sense and belief in the democratic system that the public felt, and for that i am glad. however the public did support the FLQ at the time, and thought that their actions were at the very least, partially justified. the debate about trudeau invoking martial law continues still, though i personally believe that he did the right thing.

I would just like to point out that Quebec is not ruled by a foreign nation thousands of miles across an ocean that is enforcing it's laws with little regard to the needs and wants of the people there. =P Kiss my ass, I'm proud that I'm American and that we won our independence from Britain.

[spaik]

im not belittling the us war of independance here. what i'm trying to say is that they chose to work at it democratically, rather than going to war. did i say that the way that the united states dealt with their predicament as oppressed colonies in an unjustified way? was the war 'amiable'? was the war 'constitutional' as a british colony? was the war not bloody?

are you going to argue that it was better to have a bloody war where countless people died and where horrible atrocities were committed by people and soldiers on both sides, even if you had the option to pursue independence in a democratic and diplomatic manner? i certainly hope not. unlike the united colonies of the time, quebec DOES have that choice.

as for the "enforcing it's laws with little regard to the needs and wants of the people there", thats exactly what the seperatists in quebec think of the national canadian government right now. the difference is that they have the choice of pursuing it democratically, which they are choosing to do so now.

[DarkFire168]

im not belittling the us war of independance here. what i'm trying to say is that they chose to work at it democratically, rather than going to war. did i say that the way that the united states dealt with their predicament as oppressed colonies in an unjustified way? was the war 'amiable'? was the war 'constitutional' as a british colony? was the war not bloody?

are you going to argue that it was better to have a bloody war where countless people died and where horrible atrocities were committed by people and soldiers on both sides, even if you had the option to pursue independence in a democratic and diplomatic manner? i certainly hope not. unlike the united colonies of the time, quebec DOES have that choice.

as for the "enforcing it's laws with little regard to the needs and wants of the people there", thats exactly what the seperatists in quebec think of the national canadian government right now. the difference is that they have the choice of pursuing it democratically, which they are choosing to do so now.



Obviously Canadian history books suck. They apparently leave out the part of US history where we DID try democratic and peaceful manner. Read the preamble to our Constitution. We didn't have any way to further press the matter in a peaceful way at the point in which we declared our independence.

And I'm sure the separtists feel that way, and they aren't being goverened over an ocean so they can easily and amicably pursue democratic ways to work on the problem, also, they aren't the fundamental resource and power base of another country, so they have more room to breathe on issues. Britian would never have willingly let go of the colonies at any point in time. We'd still be sipping earl gray and saying "God save the queen/king" today if they had it their way.

And sometimes war is a necessary evil, like the death penalty. Or are you going to say that WWII was evil and wrong and if we had just talked nicely to Hitler and given him some land he would have calmed down?... woops.

[kattana]

Quebec is the root of canadian culture, from the foods; maple syrup, the bacon, poutine(the national food), to hokey(the national sport) to the national anthem, canada started in quebec and was heavily influenced by french culture, its why canada is more relaxed and has a more european style of goverment than america and why it is and has always has had a rich culture and artisic presence on the word stage.

Someone said canada was lacking in the big city entertainment so let me fill you in on a bit about Montreal which along with Quebec city is where canada was founded.
Montreal in addition to having famously hosting the most popular expo and being home to the cirque de soleil is rife with cultural festivals year round many of them world famous such as the jazz fest, international film festival, fantasia film festival, and has endless street festivals and other events including the grande prix throughout the summer.
It is also a university city and a party town, it has offered to host mardi gras in the wake of katrina and is one of the largest tourist citys in canada, peoplel who visit do not want to leave.
Because of its thriving culture it has a large musical and film community and is becoming one of the big players in the game word, both Ubisoft and EA have studios in Montreal and Ubisoft has partnered with a college to teach game design skills, EA is following suit with a similar program.
Montreal is also home to the biggest telcos in canada and a great many other large companys, has huge tech growth and opportunites, is one of the more connected citys in canada and exports tons of brain power from its various universitys to the US along with numorous other talented people. A lot more canadians are down there working and entertaining that you would possibly think. Amongst those other large companys are many of the big canadian beer companys, thats another thing tourists visit for, that and the girls(search around montreal is well known for having great ones, i think someone already mentioned some porn stars, french influence again) and guys(sexy french accents) keep them coming back.
On the subject of girls and guys, its a relaxed city sexualy with a fairly large and visible homosexual community the largest in canada if i am not mistaken, and a whole other side of the entertainment(such as porn, and its stars as referenced above) based around this more european approach to sex, you can blame the french for that too.
The greater montreal area is the 2nd largest city in canada after toronto with roughly 3 million people living in it, but unlike toronto it is not a huge ugly smog covered city but nicer and much more european, toronto is to new york as montreal is to paris.
Montreal also has the greatest density of english speaking people in quebec so it is a perfect place to learn more about quebec in general if visiting from outside.

Because of all this most things from canada can trace some influence or origin back to montreal, unless they are bad, then you blame someone out west.

[DarkFire168]

It still doesn't matter, your best export is Shelby Belle =P

[kattana]

Your posts do not matter, all you have done all topic is troll. GTFO.
Edit: let me add than out of all the provinces, quebec without a doubt hates america the most, ignorant, closeminded people like you are the reason, its to prevent getting in the melting pot with your likes that they are fighting to keep their cultural identity.

[RDClip]

Quebec is the root of canadian culture, from the foods; maple syrup, the bacon, poutine(the national food), to hokey(the national sport) to the national anthem, canada started in quebec and was heavily influenced by french culture, its why canada is more relaxed and has a more european style of goverment than america and why it is and has always has had a rich culture and artisic presence on the word stage.
I won't deny the importance of Quebec in Canadian history, but your also downplaying the inportance of Ontario. There were many, many settlements in Ontario. And here in Ontario is where the thought of the Canadian nation was born.

And must I remind everyone that the British were here almost as long as the French. Their importance is also downplayed, probably with everyone still hating the fact that we are still not completly independent from them.

I agree with one of the above posts that Canada is still without a secure national identity. We are 'multi-cultural' and not the melting pot, so there is a significant lack of patriotism to the level of the US. The question, "what does it mean to be Canadian is a hard question to answer."

[DarkFire168]

I'm not being ignorant or closed minded though. You just like to think that. I have no problems with Quebec wanting to seperate from the rest of Canada, especially if they are doing so because fo their wish to preserve their cultural identity.

If you can't take a joke the GTFO =P

[spaik]

"unlike the united colonies of the time, quebec DOES have that choice."

did you miss that part of what i said? your entire post goes off about how the war was the last resort, and i perfectly agree. what the hell are you arguing here? quebec has that choice and took it. the united colonies didn't. they went to war. the war was bloody, but needed. seriously, try reading the post first.

[RDClip]

I'm not being ignorant or closed minded though. You just like to think that. I have no problems with Quebec wanting to seperate from the rest of Canada, especially if they are doing so because fo their wish to preserve their cultural identity.

If you can't take a joke the GTFO =P
I don't want Quebec to leave because it will have a negative effect on both Canada and Quebec. Canada depends on Quebec and Quebec depends on Canada. I think if they actually did separate, there would be huge financial problems for both nations.

The separatists have gotten a bad name from the years and years of radicals and fantatics, I do see that. However, you have to see that the rest of Canada would be pissed if these radicals turned into terrorists or when promenant Quebecers and politicians from Quebec poplicly put down Canada and it's flag.

[kattana]

For the earliest parts of canadian history there was no ontario and quebec was instead Upper Canada and Lower Canada. I am not trying to downplay, but until confederation(in 1867 for those not familiar) the region did not even have a name, in the beggining Quebec *was* Canada.


Do not bother being defensive darkfire, if you do not like how you appear then do not act that way.

spaik: do not feed the trolls.

[spaik]

of course the negative effects would be severe. i'm certain that the united colonies and britain felt it too. im sure india and britain felt it during their independence as well. but for people, the liberation that they seek, they do knowing the cost will be heavy, whether in money or blood, because they seek to be free to rule and govern themselves.

[RDClip]

of course the negative effects would be severe. i'm certain that the united colonies and britain felt it too. im sure india and britain felt it during their independence as well. but for people, the liberation that they seek, they do knowing the cost will be heavy, whether in money or blood, because they seek to be free to rule and govern themselves.
There's a bit of a difference of how Britain treated those colonies to how Canada treats Quebec. If the people of Quebec are prepared to pay for their independence in 'blood', then they have a problem. Canada has treates Quebec damn good, we always have. We put up with their cultural laws and we allow them freedom. Quebecs claims that being part of Canada is a risk to their culture is totally infounded. It's been almost 150 years and their culture is still strong.

[spaik]

"If the people of Quebec are prepared to pay for their independence in 'blood', then they have a problem."

Refer to FLQ incident. They were very much willing to spill the blood of innocents for it, and they did. This isn't to say it was right. The seperatist movement within the general populace also chose not to walk this path afterwards, which is undeniably a good thing. That isn't to say that they don't feel strongly about it. Also, I used the world 'people' rather than french canadians, because the statement I was making was referring to the thoughts of people all over the world and throughout history that felt they were being oppressed and misrepresented.

"Canada has treates Quebec damn good, we always have. We put up with their cultural laws and we allow them freedom."

I already don't like where this is headed. Also, I think that your choice of the words 'put up with' and such is conveying the wrong message, but I'm going to assume that its just a clumsy choice of words, and that your underlying message is less insinuous. The problem I see is that Canada says 'ok, keep doing your culture thing, but we're going to make policy according to what we feel is important, not you'. Note that this is the same thing that is causing the western provinces to feel animosity towards the east, against particularly, Ottawa. Centralized government, when the country spans coast to coast with very distinctive cultures and needs in each region, its no wonder the west and quebec feel like they don't have any say. Ottawa and the east has the disproportionate number of seats in the house of commons compared to the west, so they dictate policy, which reaches across the entire country.

"Quebecs claims that being part of Canada is a risk to their culture is totally infounded. It's been almost 150 years and their culture is still strong."

Canada does nothing to protect their culture. Quebec and French Canadian culture lives on because of a strong sense of identity and 'nationalism'.

[RDClip]

About this Quebec arguement, I say fuck it. We're getting nowhere really slow and I really don't feel like arguing over something that can't be resolved. I don't concede nor do I say your wrong. This is a arguement based on personal beliefs, and thus there is no end to this debate. So I say to anyone who disagrees about this subject to agree to disagree.

[spaik]

cant be resolved? i dont know about that. thats what the bq is trying to do right now, isnt it? democracy is a long and hard process, and one that requires discussion and discourse. at the very least, discussing such matters, even when it seems like no progress is made, is a sign of progress in itself.

on that note, i still think that the seperatists are misguided in wanting to gain independence. there are other options available to help them, and help other marginalized provinces as well. making the provincial governments stronger and more autocratic would help, and would allow both the west coast, quebec, and others to govern their populations to fit their needs. the main issue i see is that canada is a centralized government, and currently, has no will or intention to allow the provinces and their people govern themselves more fully. a much stronger provincial government in quebec would be able to take steps to see that their culture is being protected and nurtured.

[RDClip]

cant be resolved? i dont know about that. thats what the bq is trying to do right now, isnt it? democracy is a long and hard process, and one that requires discussion and discourse. at the very least, discussing such matters, even when it seems like no progress is made, is a sign of progress in itself.
I was talking about us, here. It really serves no purpose.

[Kintaro]

I won't deny the importance of Quebec in Canadian history, but your also downplaying the inportance of Ontario. There were many, many settlements in Ontario. And here in Ontario is where the thought of the Canadian nation was born.

And must I remind everyone that the British were here almost as long as the French. Their importance is also downplayed, probably with everyone still hating the fact that we are still not completly independent from them.

I agree with one of the above posts that Canada is still without a secure national identity. We are 'multi-cultural' and not the melting pot, so there is a significant lack of patriotism to the level of the US. The question, "what does it mean to be Canadian is a hard question to answer."

P1= This involved government with 48 seats in Upper Canada and 48 in Lower Canada until UC outpopulated Lower Canada after Americans fled North... Then they asked for Rep-by-pop, because it suited them.

P2= Same continent, different places.

P3= People attempt to answer that question to this day, and the answers are usually revolving around Cartoon studios (Nelvana, Cinar, NFB submissions like the Hockey Sweater), maple syrup despite only 2 provinces and 2 states even having the climate for acericulture, and obvious statements about Canada as a country but not a culture.

In any case, the debate is far from over, and regardless of the number of referenda held, if it passes or not, Canadian identity will not cease to exist. It will surely transform, but since we have such a little grasp on that national identity, it's hard to tell how. I live literally 5km from Parliament Hill and if Quebec did separate, think of the nightmare of setting up a border at those bridges...

But as RDClip says, the debate is far from over, but probably shouldn't continue here. I respect him for his recent posts being of sound mind.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Wow, luuks like we've steered usselves into tha "Quebec is/isn't Great" Debate. Kinda sumthin' to wunder aboot, eh?

[Kustom]

Says something about Canada though ;)

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Western Canadians tend to have more fun that the Easterners.

[Alphonse v.2]

Western Canadians tend to have more fun that the Easterners.

Not really, Western Canada is more of a quite place,which is basicly 2 highways with lush green medows and forests around them. Not saying it's a great place.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Only because Eastern got famous peopl going there, because of Toronto hosting MUCH Music. :p