Pizza Chain Takes Pesos, and Complaints

[Roxie]

From NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/15/us/15Pizza.html?em&ex=1169010000&en=6490b4d81a75c8c0&ei=5087%0A)

By GRETEL C. KOVACH


DALLAS, Jan. 14 — Jose Ramirez and two friends stopped by a Pizza Patrón here after work on Thursday for a carry-out dinner. Mr. Ramirez, his jeans dusted with white chalk from the construction site, ordered a Hawaiian and La Patrona — a large with the works.


The pies cost him almost 220 big ones. Pesos, that is.


Mr. Ramirez, 20, received his change in American coins and said he liked the chain’s new “Pizza por Pesos” promotion. He had been in the United States for 15 days — his home is in Guanajuato, Mexico (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/mexico/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) — and he wanted to spend the last of his Mexican currency.


“I just arrived,” he said in Spanish, smiling nervously. “It’s my first time here.”


The employees at this Pizza Patrón in East Dallas, one of 59 in five Southwestern and Western states, were still puzzling over the conversion rates almost a week after the chain started accepting peso bills on Jan. 8.
But the promotion has already hit a nerve in the nationwide immigration (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/immigration_and_refugees/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) debate. The company’s Dallas headquarters received about 1,000 e-mail messages on Thursday alone. Some were supportive, but many called the idea unpatriotic, with messages like, “If you want to accept the peso, go to Mexico!” There were even a few death threats.


Antonio Swad, president and founder of Pizza Patrón, said he was surprised by the outcry.


“I certainly wasn’t expecting ‘pizza for pesos’ to become a touchstone for the immigration issue,” Mr. Swad said. It was nothing more than an effort to “reinforce our brand promise to be the premier Latino pizza chain,” he said. “We’re businessmen.”


“The Latino population is significant and it’s important,” Mr. Swad continued. “It’s here to stay. The United States is not going to be like it used to be; it’s going to be different, and it has an opportunity to be better.”


Mr. Swad, who is Italian-Lebanese and was born and raised in Columbus, Ohio, did not speak Spanish when he opened his first take-out pizzeria in Dallas in 1986. But he saw a business opportunity in the growing Latino minority in his neighborhood, and the way his customers struggled to order in English.


A year later he changed the name from Pizza Pizza to Pizza Patrón, hired bilingual staff members and added items like La Mexicana, a pizza that includes spicy chorizo sausage and jalapeños.


Pizza Patrón became a franchise in 2003, and same-store sales were up more than 34 percent in the most recent quarter compared with last year, Mr. Swad said.


From 10 to 15 percent of business at his five Dallas pizzerias has been in pesos, he said. Despite the criticism, he said he would continue the promotion until the end of February as planned.


Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a group that seeks to limit immigration, said he was concerned that Hispanics could create a parallel mainstream in the United States.
“It’s a trivial example, but Hispanics now have their own pizza chain,” Mr. Krikorian said. “It’s a consequence of having too many people arrive from a single foreign culture, and may well reflect a kind of cultural secession.”
John Echeveste, a co-founder of the Hispanic Public Relations Association, said he did not see the peso drive as a major business trend, but he did consider it a symbolic acknowledgment of the importance of the large and growing Hispanic market.


“Mexicans are spending U.S. dollars on their side of the border and vice versa,” Mr. Echeveste said. “It works both ways. From a marketing perspective you don’t really look at whether those people are illegal or not, you look at whether they have money.”


Brent A. Wilkes, national executive director for the League of United Latin American Citizens, an advocacy group, said the reaction of the e-mailers to the pizza promotion disturbed him.


“No one is trying to dis the U.S. dollar or offend U.S. citizens,” Mr. Wilkes said. “It’s time that the vast majority of Americans stand up and say, ‘This is hate speech; it should not be tolerated.’ ”


The Pizza Patrón on Ross Avenue in East Dallas is a few doors down from Casa Latina Cassettes and CD’s and a Fiesta supermarket. Accordion music from the Mexicana satellite radio station blares from tinny speakers above the door.


“They’ve been bringing in the old, old, old kinds of pesos,” said Jose Palacios, 31, the store’s general manager.


Those out-of-circulation bills are not accepted, and banks offer a slightly better rate than the chain’s set price of 12 pesos to the dollar.


“It’s for convenience,” Mr. Palacios said. “Most of Mexico’s people, they go in December to Mexico to celebrate and be with family. They come back and say, ‘Oh, I’ve got 200 pesos; what do I do with it?’ ”


Just before 8 p.m., the phone rang with another boycott announcement. “Next thing you know, we’re going to be raising Mexico’s flag,” the caller complained.


Jorge Delgado and Derek Byerly, surgical support technicians dressed in hospital scrubs, stopped by on their dinner break.


“I’m going to buy it with pesos,” joked Mr. Delgado, 20, as he opened the door. He and Mr. Byerly, 27, who is black, like to tease each other about racial stereotypes, he said.


But like almost all Pizza Patrón customers, Mr. Delgado paid with dollars.
The next day, Juan Rodriguez, a maintenance worker, picked up a pepperoni and mushroom pizza for lunch.


“I can pay with pesos?” he asked in Spanish.


Mr. Rodriguez, 43, had been to Mexico two weeks ago. “I’m going to Mexico a lot of times; it’s better for me,” he said of the peso promotion, switching to English. He said he did not understand the controversy: “I don’t know what is the problem.”

[Kwiz]

An utter commotion over nothing. The pizza chain, as a business running itself, decided to accpet pesos and (presumably) convert them to US dollars later. Who cares?

[Cherub Rock]

I think it's a great idea to attract customers. Besides, many businesses in Canada accept the US dollar (though you don't exactly get a great exchange rate). I fail to see the problem.

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

sounds as if some of the people who wrote the threatening letters are rather hyper-american.

[delen]

If you accept pesos you are letting the terrorists win.

[Jetsetlemming]

Why don't the immigrants exchange their pesos at the bank? >_>; Hm, having money you can only use in one place, to get cheap pizza, or having money you can spend anywhere.
Hard decision, right?

[MeneerDijk]

Would you go to the bank to exchange just 100 pesos? (about $10 i think) when you also have to pay a fee to get it exchanged? I don't think the illegal immigrants will have $1000's worth of pesos lying around. I think it's a pretty smart move to accept pesos for that reason.

When The Netherlands switched from guilders to euro's as currency, a lot of people didn't exchange the small amounts simply because they didn't think it was worth the effort. But if you add that up there still is millions in guilders that hasn't been exchanged yet. (And it can only be exchanged at the National Bank in Amsterdam for a steep exchange rate). Sometimes stores will have promotions where they temporarily accept guilders and they're pretty succesful.

[Jetsetlemming]

Going to the bank, setting up an account, and exchanging money to the currency of your current location strikes me as something that would be very good for a new immigrant to the United States, because doing so would require a minimal amount of English, math and money skills, and knowledge of the American banking system. Knowing these things would set a new immigrant pretty damn far ahead of most of them, especially the illegal immigrants, since they don't have to pass the citizenship tests or requirements.
On the other hand, you have cheap unhealthy food. Might help you in the short run, but I'd personally rather have some ramen, and some knowledge of the place I'm living in.

[MeneerDijk]

Can illegal immigrants set up a bank account there? Over here you need a Dutch ID, and i'd figure illegal immigrants would prefer to stay off of the radar. If the bank would notice someone using false credentials, they sic the cops on them.

In any case, i agree with you getting a bank account would be the smart thing to do. But i recon in reality a lot of immigrants have some pesos lying around that they didn't bother to deposit or exchange. And i guess the manager of the pizza-place noticed a demand for acceptance of pesos.

And on top of that: Who cares what currency a bussines accepts. If it improves their bussines, they bring in more (sales)taxes and benefit the economy.

[Angelyne]

Going to the bank, setting up an account, and exchanging money to the currency of your current location strikes me as something that would be very good for a new immigrant to the United States, because doing so would require a minimal amount of English, math and money skills, and knowledge of the American banking system. Knowing these things would set a new immigrant pretty damn far ahead of most of them, especially the illegal immigrants, since they don't have to pass the citizenship tests or requirements.
On the other hand, you have cheap unhealthy food. Might help you in the short run, but I'd personally rather have some ramen, and some knowledge of the place I'm living in.

That's a great idea except that you now need a valid social security number to open a bank account (thank you PATRIOT ACT). Illegal immigrants lack this, and I'm not sure how easy it is for legal immigrants to obtain one. The PATRIOT Act intentionally made it more difficult to open up a bank account now, for citizens and non-citizens alike.

And I honestly don't see what the problem is about accepting pesos. The businesses on both borders of Niagara Falls have accepted both US and Canadian currency for as long as I can remember.

[Jetsetlemming]

Cops don't go after people JUST for being illegal immigrants, unless they're being caught crossing the border. It's an official policy. When they pull someone over for a traffic violation, they're not allowed to ask if the driver is a legal citizen, either. Detaining them, judging them (we hafta let them have a say, in case they want to apply for political asylum or something like that), and sending them back to their native countries is ridiculously expensive, and there are a billion and three illegal immigrants here already. Unless they commit some other crime, they're largely ignored by the big cheeses. I'm still not sure how illegal immigration because an issue recently. It just randomly sprang up out of nowhere after the border crossing had been going on for decades. O_o
I needed proof of identity when I set up my bank account, but not any kind of state ID or anything. Just my birth certificate. *Shrug* I'd imagine it varies from bank to bank, though. And I don't know if you'd need an account at all in order to exchange currencies. Since it's typically a service for tourists visiting a foreign country, I'd imagine not, but that's probably yet another thing that varies.
Anyways, all I was saying that, if I was a new american, I'd rather take my money to the bank, set up an account, learn about America, rather than just buy pizza. An exchange fee is a small price to pay for knowing what's going on.

[Trump]

I thought places just charged a percentage when converting money. Usually between 5-10 %. So what difference does it make if you have 5 pesos or 5000 pesos?

[Angelyne]

I'm wondering if the issue is finding a place to convert money. The last time I went to Canada, I went to my local bank in an attempt to get some Canadian currency in advance. They told me that I could only exchange amounts in intervals of $50, and that I would have to wait a few days to get it. This probably varies by bank, but if you're a poor immigrant, this option is definitely out.

The only other place around here that will exchange currency is the airport, and their exchange rates are usually awful. There's also the issue of being able to get to the airport--it might not be worth it just to exchange a few dollars/pesos worth of money.

Despite having these options open to me, I still have about $10 in Canadian currency lying around my house. It's just not worth the hassle of exchanging to US dollars, especially when there's a chance I'll be going back to Canada at some point. This is probably the same way the Mexican immigrants feel.

[Plekto]

And yet... how many places in the WORLD accept U.S. dollars for serives(with a small conversion fee as well)?

I think it's fantastic, myself. Neat way to get an edge on the competition.

[blank slate]

This company is incredibly smart. They did something that they knew would cause a huge deal and get them national attention for their brand. It's brilliant.

[haterllnation]

Now, I need to find me some Pesos and get to work. Hey, why even be limited to Pesos? Let's get Yen, Euros, etc. involved FTW.

[seiji]

I've got 2000 yen in my wallet and a whole envelope of baht somewhere. What can I buy with them?

[haterllnation]

2000 yen? You can buy a large, two-topping pizza, and a 2-liter of Coca Cola.

[Kenshin]

And yet... how many places in the WORLD accept U.S. dollars for serives(with a small conversion fee as well)?

I think it's fantastic, myself. Neat way to get an edge on the competition.I think it's a nice move by them as well. Also, the ones who go out and cry “Next thing you know, we’re going to be raising Mexico’s flag,” are probably the same ones that say "Kick them out, they're stealing our jobs, blah, blah, blah..."

If you want to go somewhere where virtually anyone will accept dollars, come to Venezuela. :P
(With 2000 yen, assuming the conversion to dollars and then to bolivares is correct, you could buy two large pizzas... and now I'm hungry. >_>
Edit: Wait, make that about 4 pizzas, and 4 liters of coke. I forgot we have two exchange rates...)

[PopCulturePooka]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with things that make it EASIER for illegals to continue being illegal and not A) integrating with the rest of scoiety and B) not get citizenship. Meh.

[MNJetter]

I would think this pizza chain's main spenders of pesos, rather than illegal immigrants, are tourists - either Americans just getting back from Mexico, or Mexicans visiting the States. I think it's a great idea. There are places up on the border between America and Canada that take both types of dollars, and nobody up here is afraid of a cultural invasion from Canada. (heh)

When I visited honolulu a few years ago, you'd be hard pressed to find a store that didn't have a 「日本語、日本円でどうぞ」 (Japanese language and money are both acceptable here!) sign in the window. Also, when I went to Hungary a few years before that, most places took several forms of currency, including but not limited to the Euro, the traditional Hungarian currency, and the U.S. Dollar.

[japanat]

I'm a legal resident of Japan, and go back to the States every year or two to visit family, reconnect, level out stress, etc. So I always end up coming back to Japan with unspent dollars in my pocket, or vice versa. But for 10-20, even $50, getting it exchanged is a royal pain in the ass. The airport exchange is horrible, and finding a bank that exchanges can be difficult even in Japan (small towns, at least - most other banks will do so). But in Colorado (my home state), in Denver in particular, there was one in 1990, maybe 2 or 3 now.

This pizza place has had a wonderful idea. Most people don't want to go through the hassle of trying to find a bank that exchanges. And since many drive across the border, it's not like walking by the exchange window in the arrivals lounge at the airport. Yet they can use this currently useless money to buy some food. "Cool! We can use these pesos, so let's get some pizza!" -The essence of a successful marketing campaign.

And these idiots on TV saying it encourages illegal immigration have their heads up their asses. People cross the border illegally in order to get dollars, not to spend pesos. "Hey, let's cross the border and walk through 100 miles of Arizona desert, and try to avoid the INS and Minutemen - and Get A Pizza!" Not to mention that most illegals have spent every penny they have to get someone to mule them across the border. Rich people don't wetback!

[CrazyAce86]

It's a brilliant idea. And those boycotters and complainers are idiots much like my mother, who went on a hate-fueled rant about "wetbacks" invading the country and laying around doing nothing. (The kicker is that she also says she's not racist. Uh-huh.)

People obviously don't read their history books. What is now the American Southwest originally "belonged" to Mexico, so really, the Mexicans were there before any of them. And if anyone should want to boot them out, then it should be the Native Americans / First Nations, because they were there before that.

It's a bunch of bullshit and basically the whole illegal immigration thing is just America doing what it does best and blaming everyone else for its troubles.

I applaud this place for being not only doing a smart business venture but also sticking to it in spite of protest. :clap:

[Cherub Rock]

People obviously don't read their history books. What is now the American Southwest originally "belonged" to Mexico, so really, the Mexicans were there before any of them. And if anyone should want to boot them out, then it should be the Native Americans / First Nations, because they were there before that.


Eh, if the land belonged to anyone it was the Native Americans. I never really felt it was Mexico's land to claim because during that time the borders were not really set in the west. A country can claim land but there really is nothing stopping another nation from claiming it as well if they have settlers in the area. The US and Britain had overlapping claims in Oregon and British Columbia for a long time. In the end it comes down to who wants the land more and who has the military power to take it. If it didn't work that way then what stops a country from settling on the East Coast and proclaiming every inch of land from the Atlanta to the Pacific theirs?

I'm all for taking land by force. It's how it was done for thousands of years. Of course I also don't have a problem with immigration either. I wish they're get the illegal immigration issues sorted out so that we could tax workers though. Even if it's just giving them work permits.

[CrazyAce86]

My mother thinks it's all of the Mexican government's fault. :X I don't know much about it, other than it seems as messed up as the United States's.

In any case, I just wish they'd start programs for immigrants. Hell, they have twelve-step programs for everything else, why not citizenship? Get them to enroll and they can take classes in English, history, government, and whatever else you need to know to pass the citizen test and classes or instructions on how to find work, get a bank account, pay bills, save, and so on in the US. Make cheap work visas available for these people so they can live in Mexico and work in the US or, if they're living in the US, make a condition of the visa that they enroll in the program.

It's a big mess and no one wants to try and change things. I'm not saying my idea is right, I'm just saying it's an option. There's tons of options, but the US government doesn't want to use them because gods forbid they actually help someone out that's not themselves. All they want to do is build a wall and keep everyone out. What is this, the Soviet Union? It just pisses me off to no end.

[japanat]

Of course, the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in...

I do agree with you that there are other options, though. Personally, I think they should tighten the borders if it will make them feel safer, but dealing with the illegals already in the country is tough. I think they should amnesty them, make them pay taxes, then pass legislation that allows the individual states to confiscate property/businesses that provide jobs to anyone w/o proper permits/visas. The illegal workers will come as long as they can get jobs.

[Kass]

That's a great idea except that you now need a valid social security number to open a bank account (thank you PATRIOT ACT). Illegal immigrants lack this, and I'm not sure how easy it is for legal immigrants to obtain one. The PATRIOT Act intentionally made it more difficult to open up a bank account now, for citizens and non-citizens alike.

And I honestly don't see what the problem is about accepting pesos. The businesses on both borders of Niagara Falls have accepted both US and Canadian currency for as long as I can remember.


Angelyne, you ALWAYS had to have ID and an SSN to get a bank account--at least for the last 20+ years. As much as my family and I moved, we changed banks a lot and we were never able to open an account without providing SSNs. They do that so they can report bad checks to the credit bureaus.

Jetsetlemming, you're right that law enforcement can't ask someone's immigration status, but people seem to forget that being in the US illegally is a FELONY. This is the only crime that the politicians actively do not let law enforcement actually enforce. It's funny how you can ask someone legally crossing the border at a checkpoint if they are or are not a US citizen, but you can't ask someone who likely did not cross the border legally and is being detained on suspicion of some offense whether they are a US citizen.

Funny in a "My God that is stupid" kind of way.

[japanat]

I'm not sure I understand this. The police can't ask someone in custody their nationality? Why the hell not? At the very least, you would want to be able to contact their embassy to get them proper legal representation. As far as I know, the police aren't allowed to racial profile and/or stop someone solely to ask for ID (although I think this isn't that big a deal), but surely they're allowed to ask when someone's already been arrested. "Please, Mr. Bill, say it isn't so!"

[SlickWilly440]

I live in Dallas, or near it...and I didn't hear about this in the news. I think I might just go to the bank and convert some US dollars into Pesos, just so I can go to that Pizza Place and pay with Pesos.

[Jetsetlemming]

I but surely they're allowed to ask when someone's already been arrested. "Please, Mr. Bill, say it isn't so!"
They are. They aren't allowed to persue illigal immigration as a crime by itself because a) They can't afford to try THAT many criminals, and b) The only "sign" of an illegal immigrant is a spanish speaking mexican, really, and going after that as a police officer is just waiting to go wrong.

[hectorse]

Damn, people sure are stupid. This strings me as a really good idea. Living by the border, I always end up forgetting to exchange some spare 50 or 100 pesos (5 or 10 bucks), so they keep sittingon my wallet when I go around Cali.

INt his side of the border, dollars are pretty much accepted and dealt fluidly, so it's always confused me why pesos shouldn't be taken in the border at least. Hell, some of the southern most Malls are filled with MEXICAN people living in MEXICO, who don't want to live in America and are just trying to buy stuff that you don't get here. And yeah, I would totally use that spare change in a pizza.

""Hey, let's cross the border and walk through 100 miles of Arizona desert, and try to avoid the INS and Minutemen - and Get A Pizza!" Not to mention that most illegals have spent every penny they have to get someone to mule them across the border. Rich people don't wetback!"

That's the thing, I seriously doubt that any wetback would spare the 10 bucks in a pizza. They die by starving for Mexicana Pizza's Sake


(Mexicana is just the best pizza, it's delicious)

PS-Yes, it has beans

[RandomPasserby]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with things that make it EASIER for illegals to continue being illegal and not A) integrating with the rest of scoiety and B) not get citizenship. Meh.
Well I don't think accepting pesos will ever make it easier for illegal immigrants in Australia. You got your "refugee" camps after all :watson: