The most respectful way to address race [Archive]

crabity

11-27-2006, 11:26 PM

I realize I might be beating a dead horse, but please... do not lock this topic.

Let's say you are going to a job interview, and you HAVE to address race in answering one of the questions. What's is the best way (the least offensive way) to refer to blacks? To whites?

Someone told me "blacks and whites", and not to use "Caucasians and African-Americans." Another person told me the exact opposite. I am very confused.

Or, if there's no best term to address them separately, what would be one good general term for all non-Asian race?

If these info help in anyway, I am Asian and I'll be talking to people in California.

---

Joey, if you see this, the answer to the question in your mind is... yes.

Jetsetlemming

11-27-2006, 11:34 PM

either term works.

Pierrot le Fou

11-27-2006, 11:44 PM

Depends on what the question is, and what the job is.

If you're, for instance, trying to becoming the Grand Wizard of the KKK, you're probably going to get turned down if you refer to them as 'African-Americans.' On the other hand, if you're trying to head up the NAACP, referring to them as 'quaint coloured folk' probably won't go over so well.

Really, don't worry about it too much. Answer the question with whatever (non-offensive) term comes most naturally. If a job rejects you because you refer to someone as 'black' rather than 'African-American' they have their heads so far up their arses that you probably don't want to work there.

Personally I think you should just divert the question, and ask about the specific ethnicities, nationalities, and cultural identities of the person in question, and then refer to him/her by their name as you think "Montserrat-born of Congolese and Antiguan Ethnicity with US citizenship" is just a mouthful.

h2orowe

11-27-2006, 11:56 PM

African American isn't exactly right though. Not all black people are from Africa.

andrewt

11-28-2006, 12:12 AM

African American isn't exactly right though. Not all black people are from Africa.
or america rather :watson:

羽之助

11-28-2006, 12:22 AM

Ah yes, wasn't there a post here a while ago about people who were expecting a black exchange student because he was from Africa, and then he turned out to be a white South African?

I say black, white, Asian. Not yellow. Weird.

seiji

11-28-2006, 12:45 AM

African American isn't exactly right though. Not all black people are from Africa.or america rather :watson:
Speaking of which, I cry a little every time I hear someone talk about the "African-American" people outside America. :duh:

MNJetter

11-28-2006, 01:01 AM

Speaking of which, I cry a little every time I hear someone talk about the "African-American" people outside America.

Heh. Proof positive that nationally-specific words of political correctness can come back to bite you in the arse if you get too used to them.

crabity

11-28-2006, 01:31 AM

so black/white is okay? even in California?

I always assumed otherwise, but
if you all say so...

erbiumfiber

11-28-2006, 02:16 AM

I heard an asian person use the term "occidental" to refer to all non-asians but the Occident is really just Western Europe and North and South America, from the definitions I can find. So I guess it would include black people living in those areas as well? Not sure if it's more of a cultural term than a physical description term.

I'm with the rest of the folk who think "black" and "white" are fine. Although I think in the UK, people from India are also referred to as "black" even though I think they are classified as caucasian (as that term has come to be used not the original derivation of that term).

Well, I guess I've mucked up this answer enough so I'd better stop.

Soli

11-28-2006, 02:33 AM

I have that problem all the time. >.<

PM me when you find a good solution! :)

Comazon

11-28-2006, 02:40 AM

Well I find that nearly all Californias don't care either way (I sure as heck don't). If I had to choose though, I would personally use Caucasian and African-American. I consider White and Black to be rather slang-ish, and in something as important as an interview, I would try to avoid using it if it can be helped. It gives the appearance of being a little more refined (at least to me). Plus I've yet to meet anyone who considered being called "Caucasian" offensive (assuming they actually are, of course). I have, on the other hand, met some people who hated being called White.

If you're not sure the Blacks in discussion are actually African-American or not, then just use Black. It's better to be correct about naming the race above all else. If this is the case though, it's probably best to call Caucasian's "White," at least to be consistent.

It probably won't help/hurt that much either way. This is just how I would approach it.

crabity

11-28-2006, 02:58 AM

If you're not sure the Blacks in discussion are actually African-American or not, then just use Black. It's better to be correct about naming the race above all else. If this is the case though, it's probably best to call Caucasian's "White," at least to be consistent.

wait...it depends on who I'm talking about??
so if I'm referring to an old friend (in an anecdote) then they'll have no way of knowing whether s/he was really african-american or just black, so it'll be okay?
I was thinking more along the line that, if I use "blacks" to group all blacks, then if my interviewer happens to be black him/herself, s/he'll be offended at being labeled as that...

and second question. so african-american/caucasian is more formal than black/white? then maybe I should use the former...

PopCulturePooka

11-28-2006, 03:08 AM

Think its hard in America?

Try being in Australia where we have australian indigenous, Islanders, some maori's, very dark skinned Indonesians and Cambodians and africans and no real defining term for them beyond black, until you get close enough to be able to notice the differences.

African-Australian? hehe

I've also had an Islander go ape shit at me because I called him Indigenous, which he didn't like.

Roxie

11-28-2006, 04:38 AM

Go the professional route.

ZaichikArky

11-28-2006, 07:08 AM

Tricky situation. In a professional situation like an interview in California *probably* the most non-offensive thing would be to say "african american." I'm saying that because most black people who live in the US originally, and this is long, long ago did come from Africa. However, there are also some very dark , Filipino people, sometimes even Cubans, or other Pacific Islanders who a lot of people say are "black". Whoever(plf I think) said that if a job turns you down just for saying "black" probably has their stick so far up their asses that you're better off not working there , is right. However, in my opinion, "African American" sounds more professional. In any other circumstance, I would call black people black, whites white, Asians Asian and whoever else whatever. "Black" is gernally an all encompasing term because I don't want to call a black person from somewhere other than America "African American". It's just confusing. It's hard with Native American's though. The most proper term IS "Native American", but it's the same kind of issues as the "black" vs "African America". IE "Indian" vs "Native American". Just don't call Indians "redskins". This was more common back in the day but they tend not to like that so much anymore. :p.

ZaichikArky

11-28-2006, 07:17 AM

Think its hard in America?

I've also had an Islander go ape shit at me because I called him Indigenous, which he didn't like.

Well I read about how your wonderful government packed all the aboriginals into the dersert further and further inward. It was pretty tragic. Not sure if it was comperable about what Americans did to the Indians, but still part of the undeniable past. As far as I understand, though, a lot of Australians are in denial or don't get/know how poorly they used to treat Aboriginals. I hope the situation for the Aboriginal people gets better. And as an anthropolgy major, I tend to know that a lot of minority people in countries where their people have been historically opressed, they try very hard to both maintain their cultural roots while claiming to be mart of the ethnic majority. Confusing. It's hard to live in both worlds. Some people are stupidly sensitive to such matters like that dude. I've been called a Russian spy, flatface, dirty Russian, etc. plenty of times and I never went apeshit at anyone, just laughed or shrugged it off (and I'm sure you find that hard to believe ^_-). That is hardly comparable to calling someone "indigenous" imo.

Comazon

11-28-2006, 07:31 AM

wait...it depends on who I'm talking about??
so if I'm referring to an old friend (in an anecdote) then they'll have no way of knowing whether s/he was really african-american or just black, so it'll be okay?

I was trying to say that it's not the best idea to call someone African-American if they happen to be Cuban, for example.

Let's continue off of the example of your friend. If s/he was/is African-American, I would personally say that as opposed to Black. If you don't know, then it's up to you if you want to lie and give your friend a race JUST so he/she isn't addressed as Black. My gut feeling is that this whole issue isn't important enough to lie for in an interview, but if you have a knack for lying and don't think there'll be any repercussions, then by all means.

I was thinking more along the line that, if I use "blacks" to group all blacks, then if my interviewer happens to be black him/herself, s/he'll be offended at being labeled as that...
Ugh...that really does depend on your interviewer. As I said, I haven't seen many Californians who cared about being called Black or White, but if you happen to be interviewed by one of the few that DO, then that might hurt your chances a little.

If you need to use Black/White for some reason, don't be afraid to use it. It's really not that bad...just don't use Yellow. Most Californians never heard Yellow be used much beyond Yellow Fever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish). :P

And even then it's not a lot.

and second question. so african-american/caucasian is more formal than black/white? then maybe I should use the former...

People may argue with me on this, but I always tended to see it that way. Or at least it gave a slight aura of formality. To address a race as a color just seems slightly casual to me.

I'm probably making you overworry about this. You seemed to already have the notion to use Caucasian and African-American, and I just thought you should go with it. It's what I would do.

Just don't call Indians "redskins"

Good advice, and don't call White guys like me Crackers, and Black people...well...you know.

He's also right about Cubans, they can get DAMN dark...and then there's the 100% White-looking Cubans (my mom, for example). I always find it hilarious when Mexicans ask my mom how she learned to speak Spanish so well. :rofl:

And the rest of ZaichikArky's post seems dead-on imo. :yes:

Angelyne

11-28-2006, 07:50 AM

I didn't think the term "Caucasian" was used that much outside of North America. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong?

Anyways, the term has always annoyed the hell out of me for two reasons:

1) The man who coined the term (at least in reference to whites) was a religious zealot who was obsessed with Caucasus because he believed Noah's Ark landed there. The Christian element to the term always creeped me out.

2) I'm not from the Caucasus, nor are my ancestors. What's wrong with just calling me "white"?

ZaichikArky

11-28-2006, 07:59 AM

*is a she* ^_^. Don't worry, everyone here makes that mistake! My online mannerisms are often manly. XD.

Where in California are you from btw, Comazon? I'm currently residing in the Silicon Valley but I tend to move around a lot. I go to UCSC : ).

Pierrot le Fou

11-28-2006, 08:07 AM

We ALL came from Africa a long long time ago, I see no reason that someone who has never seen Africa, visited Africa, doesn't speak an African language, or doesn't even know what PART of Africa they are 'from' should be referred to as 'African-American.'

Should we start referring to all whities as 'European-American' instead?

ZaichikArky

11-28-2006, 08:15 AM

^ yeah, but the point is that some people are STILL offended by saying 'black'. I mean, if I was black, I never would be, but some people, black OR white still don't like it because back in the day it was used in a derogatory manner, even though it was a step down from the n-word. Whites were never treated in such a fashion. They didn't get the filthiest bathrooms and water fountains marked "WHITES" with big, black letters for example. To some people "black" is still this offensive word carried down from the past. Race is a tricky and often very stupid game to play. Sometimes, I think there really isn't such a thing as race , just ethnicity, but some of people would grind me to dust for thinking that way.

Jay

11-28-2006, 08:22 AM

I didn't come from Africa, I came from my mummy!

Comazon

11-28-2006, 08:31 AM

Literally you're correct, PLF. As I said repeatedly, I don't mind being called White in the slightest, but some people take it offensively (yes, I'm actually talking about Whites). Why? I'm not sure (ZaichikArky's explanation is better than anything I can come up with for Blacks).

In the end it's all about being politically correct, and whatever will get crabity the job. In my opinion he should stick with the Caucasian/[Whatever]-American way.

*is a she* ^_^. Don't worry, everyone here makes that mistake! My online mannerisms are often manly. XD.

Damn it! No, it's not you, it's me. I did the exact same thing with someone else on the forums about a month ago. I'm waaay too slow on picking up things like that. :gloomy:

I'm in Fremont, which shouldn't be all that far away from Santa Cruz (last I checked) :P

I'm probably going to go to SJSU come next Fall, but I'm applying everywhere, so I'll just see where the cards fall.

ZaichikArky

11-28-2006, 08:37 AM

Hey dude, the other day I went to Fremont to go to this Buddhist temple to do my fieldwork. Right now(12:30 am) I'm writing up my findings in a 5 page report due tomorrow at 10 am! And no, before you ask, I don't usually procrastinate THAT badly. Hee, next time I come to Fremont, I'll come visit you :D. I made the offer to this other person(I think guy) living even closer to me than Fremont and he was into the idea, but he was kind of new and posted only a few times before he was never seen again XD. Either that or he was trying to hide from me! BTW, you might not know where Campbell is, but it's the southernmost tip of Silicon Valley pretty much, unless you count Los Gatos. That's where I live for the time being ^_^. I'll be moving again in the summer :p.

RandomPasserby

11-28-2006, 11:43 AM

Hehehe, silly americans and your silly archaic race systems. Here in Finland, there is no such thing as race listed in any official or unofficial documents!

Mainly because we got our "first non-whites" after scientists disproved whole race concept so anyone suggesting adding race amongst brithday, birthplace and sex in driver's licenses etc. would look like a fool.

Kass

11-28-2006, 11:55 AM

If someone asked me to address race in an interview, I'd ask why it is relevant at all, unless I'm applying for a job at an ethnic- or race-based organization like LULAC or the NAACP. Since I'm not the right ethnicity or race to join either of those groups, that's not happening anytime soon.

Outside of that, I can't think of a single situation where it would be appropriate, or legal for that matter, to address race in an interview. Under the Equal Employment Opportunity Act, it is illegal to address certain issues such as gender, sexual orientation, religion, marital status, ethnicity or race in an interview. The list of questions not permitted that I've gotten from HR before interviews is longer than the list of questions the panel wanted to ask. Don't ask if they are single. Don't ask if they have kids. Don't ask their religion. Don't ask if their parents are from another country. Don't compliment them on their appearance. Don't ask about their accent if they have one. If the interviewee brings it up, answer their question and change the subject. Note that it was their question, not yours.

Unfortunately, as for the correct terms, it does very much depend on your audience. I have a couple of friends who find the term African-American to be an overly PC and stupid phrase. To quote them, "We're Americans just like you. No qualifiers." Others prefer that to black, though I've never met anyone who genuinely found it offensive. You just have to know your audience.

japanat

11-28-2006, 12:50 PM

You know what? I wouldn't say a damn thing about someone's race! In a professional environment in the US, it's illegal to make any determination based on race, so why bring it up at all? They aren't going to ask you if your friend is black or white, it isn't really germane to almost any discussion you might have in an interview, so call your friend "My friend", and leave it at that. Unless you are working in social work, you should have no reason to mention race; and even then, mentioning race borders on prejudicial conduct for the PC crowd.

edit: sorry, I didn't see Kass' post above, and 'played Polly'.

Trump

11-28-2006, 01:29 PM

Race? What does race have to do with anything? Just say that.

Also, if I had to describe someone I would probably go with the best technical answer, dark-skinned.

crabity

11-28-2006, 01:44 PM

oh jeez
this thread has confused me even more...
RandomPasserby - I agree...

kass / Japanat / trump / plf
maybe "interview" was the wrong example. I thought it was the closest situation that everyone here can identify with. in my situation, I *have* to address it, and I'm hoping it's going to work in my favor. don't get caught up in the "interview" scene. Just know that it's something just as serious and as important as a interview. to me.

so let me ask this again.
the only problem with calling my friend African-American is that I'll be insulting my friend (if s/he's not one). and not the interviewer. I was afraid that one of them had an offensive connotation. like using jap vs japanese.

you know what? I think asking this question has made me realize WHY racism is so tricky. It's the problem of grouping too many people together, and forcing them into one identity that's not everyone might fit under, right? it's the fear of mis-labeling someone. I think... for the first time in my life, I can connect with this concept now...

Pierrot le Fou

11-28-2006, 01:47 PM

Refer to your friend by name perhaps?

Jetsetlemming

11-28-2006, 01:55 PM

If you want to make a short, consise statement, and fluffy, uptight speech isn't neccesary, use "black" (but not "blacks", but rather "black people" for pluralization). There is absolutely no situation where anyone would possibly have a problem with "white". Ever.
Try to keep your referring to race at all to a minimum. If you focus too much on race rather than personality and other individual attributes of a person, you won't come off very well.

japanat

11-28-2006, 01:56 PM

QFT! And only by name. Then, if they ask you/require you to mention race, follow their lead in vocabulary.

RandomPasserby

11-28-2006, 02:02 PM

Race? What does race have to do with anything? Just say that.

Also, if I had to describe someone I would probably go with the best technical answer, dark-skinned.
Hmm.. is dark-skinned too close to "darkie"?

crabity

11-28-2006, 02:03 PM

jet -
wait...there's a difference between black and blackS?
hmm I guess i can do that... black people and white people?
yeah, actually, it might work quite well, in the beginning.

Kass

11-28-2006, 02:19 PM

Hmm.. is dark-skinned too close to "darkie"?

Probably. I'd never use it, especially after having lived in the South.

pangloss

11-28-2006, 03:09 PM

I didn't come from Africa, I came from my mummy!

...too easy.

Trump

11-28-2006, 06:13 PM

I would use dark skinned to describe someone with a dark tan too... it just describes the color of their skin *shrug*

erised

11-29-2006, 01:06 AM

Ok, this was further back, but I thought most blacks who were brought to America against their will came from islands around the Caribbean. Also, I thought the water fountains/etc said "Colored" not black (all the pics I've seen have that word anyways). How often do you hear black people referred to as colored people? Not often, unless it's by someone from an older generation.

I would say black. I don't like having to pull race into things, but if I must use a term, black is it. As it was said before, not all black people in America are from Africa.

I think the tone of how you're saying it is very important. Anything can be insulting if you get the wrong attitude behind it.

I'm guessing these people don't know your friend? If they did, they would already know what he looked like, and you wouldn't have to mention it at all.

Roxie

11-29-2006, 02:40 AM

Ok, this was further back, but I thought most blacks who were brought to America against their will came from islands around the Caribbean. Not quite. They came from Africa, but would often make stops in the Caribbean for "seasoning". Seasoning is where they'd split everyone up, give them new names, try and force them to christianity, and "break them in". After that, they'd sell them in the Americas...

Also, I thought the water fountains/etc said "Colored" not black (all the pics I've seen have that word anyways). How often do you hear black people referred to as colored people? Well, back then to be called "black" would've been a GREAT insult! That all changed with the civil rights movement and James Brown's "Say it loud! I'm black and I'm proud!"

Alot of older people will still take offense to such a word.

chad mullet

11-29-2006, 02:49 AM

Keris

11-29-2006, 03:23 AM

I had a super PC teacher once who prefered to refer to all non-white people as "People of color" and an individual as a "person of color". Definately not "colored" though. 'People of color' seems kind of clumsy to use in a sentence though.

RandomPasserby

11-29-2006, 07:11 AM

erised

11-30-2006, 12:14 AM

Not quite. They came from Africa, but would often make stops in the Caribbean for "seasoning". Seasoning is where they'd split everyone up, give them new names, try and force them to christianity, and "break them in". After that, they'd sell them in the Americas...

Ah. That must be where I got confused. I never was a history buff. :duh:

Well, back then to be called "black" would've been a GREAT insult! That all changed with the civil rights movement and James Brown's "Say it loud! I'm black and I'm proud!"

Alot of older people will still take offense to such a word.

Confusion again. Do you mean calling them black would've been good compared to other things they were called, or it would've been really bad?

edit: random, you're being too literal. ^_~

Roxie

11-30-2006, 01:40 AM

Confusion again. Do you mean calling them black would've been good compared to other things they were called, or it would've been really bad?

It would've been really bad.

crabity

11-30-2006, 02:13 AM

it's nice seeing people discussing, so I won't intrude
but I just want to mention that my problem has been resolved, so thank you all for helping me!

Trump

11-30-2006, 01:22 PM

What happened? We want to know!

Mith

12-04-2006, 07:52 AM

You know, this reminds me of back when I was younger and wasn't as "racially aware". I speak portuguese, and in Brazil the common way to call a black person is "negro". For example, "a black person" would translate to "uma pessoa negra". Interestingly enough, "negro" in english is as pejorative as it gets, and "black" in portuguese, "preto", can be offensive if you don't use it correctly, though people have been robbing the word of it's taboo meaning nowadays. I miss Brazil's lack of in-your-face racism taboo. You can say anything you want regarding race, as long as you don't offend it, which is going too far anywhere, I presume. It seems like there is such a conscious effort to keep away from "taboo" words (or even not really taboo words at all) in North America that people here end up being segregated anyways.

Aaaaanyways, I'd speak to people in english (I've always been bilingual) and when the word black escaped me, I'd say negro without giving it a second thought. Once again, I was much younger. It took me oh-so-long to understand why people cringed and acted strange. I mean, it was normal in portuguese, so I just assumed it should be normal in english too.

Not to say Brazil doesn't have racism, it's just not linguistically expressed as clearly as in North America, where everyone avoids certain words and distinctions and ends up sort of being racist anyways. I don't know if people get what I mean, meh.