A dilemma...

[NERD]

Okay, so this is a dilemma I'm going through at the moment. I am trying to wrap up my fifth year in college, and I think I've had enough schooling for awhile, seeing that I will be 24 when I graduate next summer.

Right now I need to take 3 credits each in pre-19th century literature, 19th century literature and 20th century literature in order to graduate as an English major next semester, and fulfill 4 credits in drawing courses to graduate as a Fine Art major with concentration in drawing. However, there are no 4 credit course in drawing, which means I have to take 2 3 credit courses, which blows.

The dilemma is that I'm taking Japanese right now, and as I would like to go to Japan after graduation, taking another Japanese class next semester would really help- but the aforementioned classes already amount to 15 credits, and a Japanese course would be 4 credits extra; by then I have to pay about a grand each for every extra credit- the tuition only covers about 16 or 17 credits, and anything after that you have to pay extra, not to mention getting the approval from the department.

I already took summer classes for the past two years, and I don't want to do that again next year. Not to mention that graduating a bit later may hurt my chances of employment.

What do you think I should do?

I'm leaning towards taking the extra Japanese class, though that would mean I would be spending my last semester basically hauling ass.

[Unknown]

Have you tried looking around where you live to see if you can find any other places that give Japanese classes? If there are any at your level and at a good price it might be a better idea to wait and take them when you get out of college.

How long are you going to Japan for, are you planning on moving there or just going for a visit?

[/|/@/|/@し]

Hm. That is very expensive for a course. And how many courses have you taken of Japanese already?? It also depends on how good you are at the language too. I mean once you pick up the basics in a language you can learn a lot on your own when you travel there. How long are you staying there for??

Also, it is possible to study it on your own as a grand is a lot. If you're worried about money it might be possible to just sign up for a class at another school, possibly community college, before or after graduation. I'm not really sure how that works. But personaly, if you are just going to visit Japan you don't need to take that extra class. I managed to survive visiting Japan on very poor Japanese skills...

I'd suggest taking a Japanese as a summer course at a less expensive school, like a community college if they'd allow it. That way it's cheaper, something youd want to do, and possibly not seem as schooly because of it. I -think- that is possible.

[NERD]

Well, I'm definitely applying for JET, which would last a year at least, and maybe up to three years if I like it. One of the reasons I'm going to Japan is trying to learn the language, which would be beneficial should I try to find a job in the language fields, as I am already fluent in Korean. So yeah, even if I don't need a lot of Japanese skills, I hope to be at the level where I can read and write Japanese without a problem, and possibly translate some stuff.

If I wanted to take another language courses, I could try out local colleges like Georgetown or American University- but it's a hassle trying to sign up as a student for just one course, and because of the time spent for commuting, the only available time I could do this would be over the summer, which I have no intentions of repeating next summer. Between working and going to school, I haven't really had a chance to relax over the last three years.

Oh, and the Japanese class is not required for graduating- in fact, my last two classes were not required at all, as I waivered my foreign language requirement after passing the Korean fluency exam. I do like my Japanese teacher, as I had her for the last two classes, and she is really good- I doubt I will be able to learn as much as I did with her than at some other institution. I'm at Japanese 3 by the way.

Oh yeah, and a grand for a credit is a lot, but the tuition is expensive for my school- the second most expensive college in the nation according to college board. Luckily my school picks up half of the tuition.

In the end, it's most likely 2 thousand dollars more and less free time for me- which is not so bad, given that a good number of other seniors are spending about the same amount of time either for a part-time job or an internship.

[Firefly]

Over 15 units can be rough. Especially your last year, when you're trying to get stuff done.

I think you should skip the class in Japanese and focus on what you need to graduate. If you're so determined to go to Japan- maybe you should do self-study? Buy a workbook and a textbook ( I personally love the Genki ones) and do it on your freetime.

Last year I did Japanese for fun/language requirements...I would have LOVED to do a minor in Japanese, but it was too hard and I really needed to focus on my major. I wish I still could take the classes, however, I just had too many other priorities.

[erbiumfiber]

Sounds like you're going to GW. Are you a VA resident? Here is Northern VA Community college spring semester. Intermediate Japanese II is a hybrid class time/Internet course and is just across the river.

http://www.nv.cc.va.us/schedule/crs2072/schedule_search_result_newcenter.asp?term=2007+Spr ing&course=JPN&campus=All&zSession=All

I have taken music courses and a telecommunications infrastructure course at NOVA and found them all to be extremely well-taught. Even if you're not a VA resident, the out-of-state rate is going to be WAY cheaper than overload credits at your school.

Plus if you're fluent in Korean, you certainly have a lot of capacity for self-study due to grammar similarities. I have studied with Koreans and they kick my butt every time...

[NERD]

erbiumfiber, you are right, I go to GW. So proud of the distinction my school has... *sniff* However, like I've mentioned, I do not want to attend the course in a neighboring school, mainly because commuting back and forth will likely take an hour or two, even with the fact that I live couple of blocks away from the metro. At least if I take the course at GW, I can cut down on that.

And for being fluent in Korean and associating the grammar with Japanese- I may be fluent, but I'm not good at grammatical stuff, or at least make the connection from one language and moving on. If I speak or write Korean and make any grammatical errors, I am able to correct those mainly from my memory alone. It is probably easier to learn Japanese than Chinese though.

firefly, I think I'm leaning into that direction of foregoing extra Japanese class. Or perhaps I could just audit the class, though that may not work out. At least with my drawing classes I could do that.

[drdan]

Take one of those classes at a community college if they offer those courses. Then you can transfer them over to your school.

[erbiumfiber]

I don't think he needs the credits to graduate. Also, like most private universities, his school is going to be really snobbish about accepting community college credits (I may be wrong if the credits are outside your major).

And, yeah, commuting in the DC metro area is a drag and a half and the NOVA Alexandria campus is not located at a metro stop (hmm, I don't think any of them are located near metro stops). You'll be taking enough credits that you don't need to spend time sitting on 395 and Route 7...

[japanat]

NERD,

If you're graduating with a dual major, then I wouldn't let the graduation delay worry me too much. Especially if you plan to JET after graduation anyways. By the time you start interviewing at US companies, they're going to be as concerned about your JET and its motivations as about how long you were in school.

I took 7yrs to graduate due to money concerns (totally self-supported, worked full-time while attending classes). Employers don't care so much about how long you took as why. Because you were working and getting a dual major? Definitely not a negative.

Make your decision depending on how hard you want to work, how much you want to pay. But don't worry about the date of graduation, except so far as JET apps are concerned.

One of my old students is studying at American now, an exchange from Rittsumeikan Univ. If you'd like, I could mail her and ask if she knows anyone who's interested in doing some Japanese tutoring. If there are any positive replies, I'll PM you.

[Kass]

If the reason you took a long time to graduate was because you were working and taking classes to learn, as opposed to being an indecisive slacker, employers won't be concerned with the time. The biggest concerns to most employers are unexplained gaps in work histories.

This isn't unexplained.

[Trump]

Hmm... are you sure you can't work out something with the drawing? Do they have some kind of independent research or lab class that can count as your drawing last one credit? Go talk to an advisor. Actually talk to more than one because I have found many advisors at decent sized universities are just plain clueless (and of course act like they know everything).

Second, talk to your Japanese teacher about your concerns. Maybe she also runs a Japanese club or something. In any case, she should be able to help you out with advice more than any of us could.

[NERD]

Hmm... are you sure you can't work out something with the drawing? Do they have some kind of independent research or lab class that can count as your drawing last one credit? Go talk to an advisor. Actually talk to more than one because I have found many advisors at decent sized universities are just plain clueless (and of course act like they know everything).

Second, talk to your Japanese teacher about your concerns. Maybe she also runs a Japanese club or something. In any case, she should be able to help you out with advice more than any of us could.

My school is rather asinine about credits- I talked to my drawing professor and to the department chair about that 1 credit last semester, and their response was "Sorry, but can't help you there." Another reason I'm getting screwed over with that one credit is because I transferred from an art school, so there is some misplaced credits here and there due to differences in the credit hour system, not to mention a different curriculum- hell, for the math credit, I took a class called "Math as art"- and try to imagine my description of the class to the math department when I was trying to take credit for that! I'll add that my current school is being an ass in terms with transferred credits- my art school GPA was about 3.8, my 4 summer courses about 3-3.5, yet my current GPA is 3.15 because those do not count. Oh yeah, my art school advisor, who I rarely talked to, is on a sabbatical, so I need to talk to some other professor I don't even know.

And you know what's the best part? The registrar's office has no way to see how many/what kind of courses I need to take in order to graduate- I received a report on that after my sophomore year, and it's up to me and my advisors to see if I can actually graduate next year.[/rant]
I'm probably gonna take Drawing II for the third time because that is the most advanced drawing class they offer, and some weird crap called Contemporary Drawing.

I talked to my Japanese teacher today, and I would be able to buy the textbook/CD for the class next semester if I was not able to attend it. And though I admit myself being a bit of a Japanophile, if there is a Japanese club, I'll steer clear away from its general direction. I'm not an obnoxious Japanophile.

One of my old students is studying at American now, an exchange from Rittsumeikan Univ. If you'd like, I could mail her and ask if she knows anyone who's interested in doing some Japanese tutoring. If there are any positive replies, I'll PM you.

Thank you for the offer, but I doubt I would have any free time to arrange a tutor.
The reason it's taking five years to graduate is because I went to an art school for two years for a BFA in Fine Arts, then transferred to my current school and decided to double major in Art and English. If I stuck with my Fine Arts major I probably would've graduated a year to two years ago, but I wanted to pursue English major.

The graduation date would be important to me especially if I were to apply and possibly selected for the JET program- I would expect them to ask me to come over the summer, and doing so would be better for my part as well. Otherwise, if I don't get into JET, I'll probably pursue some other offers, so graudation date probably won't matter as much.


Thanks for the advices everyone- I think I'm not gonna take Japanese next semester, even though I enjoy it so much. It just doesn't make sense to have four days dedicated to a single class, which is not even required, whereas other classes are.

[Trump]

Yeah, language classes are really rough in terms of class time and homework. I hope everything works out.

[NERD]

I just talked to my advisor today, and they have added the option for tacking another credit to my three-credit drawing course, which was not available before. Which means I can take just one drawing class and be done with it. My advisor and drawing professor both approved on doing so, and all I need to do is go through with the paperworks.

Which gives me an empty slot for a course, which I could use to take either Japanese or some other class that is not required for graduation. As much as I am happy to have a chance to attend Japanese, I might take a course I really wanted to but couldn't- like film history for example, or Japanese literature.

I have until Thursday to come up with rough outline of classes to present to my English advisor, so I have to make up my mind soon.

[ZaichikArky]

You should definitely take Japanese class since you are planning to spend quite a bit of time in Japan fairly soon. Any bit of practice with Japanese will be really beneficial to you, especially when in comparison to taking some really easy class that won't benefit you so much.

I can't believe you have to pay for every credit. I was going to ask you if you go to a Junior College, but that obviously isn't the case, because I thought only Community colleges do that.

My schooling is retarded-expensive, but no matter how many credits we take, the tuition is the same. So it doesn't matter if you take 12(the min) or 25 credits, you don't end up paying more...

[NERD]

You cannot take more than 18 credits- if you do, you need to get the approval from the department, which means more paperworks and more trouble on my behalf. And the tuition itself only covers up to 17.

Not sure if I will take Japanese- I mean, I may end up getting the textbook and study on my own, not to mention audit the class whenever I can, but I'm very tempted by the idea of taking four classes next semester.

[Trump]

yeah, senioritis at its best =)

[NERD]

An update- last week, after a meeting at the registration office, it turns out that
-I only need to take 2 3 credit English courses
-and 1 3 credit art course, which will be changed into 4 credits so I won't have to take another art class.

I might end up taking another course I really want to take, be that Japanese or painting. Nevertheless, I'm quite thrilled about this. :D

[japanat]

If you want to take another course, take something you won't be able to easily get once you graduate. Language courses are available everywhere. Take mid-18th century basket-weaving if that turns your crank...

[NERD]

We don't have basket weaving class. I might take intro to color photography if I get a digital SLR over X-mas, though I really want to take painting. Whenever I tell people I am a fine art major, they expect me to know painting- and given my concentration is in drawing, the logical step would be taking painting.

I may end up taking just 3 classes and do nothing for the rest of my day. :D

[japanat]

But painting and drawing are 2 different kettles of fish! My mother was a painter, and she can't draw worth squat (but she can paint!).

[NERD]

But painting and drawing are 2 different kettles of fish! My mother was a painter, and she can't draw worth squat (but she can paint!).

Erm, yes and no. Drawing and painting use different medium, but in the end they are both about translating the 3D world into a 2D surface. Because of the differences in mediums like charcoal to oil paint, the techniques and approaches on expressing objects/nude figures/landscapes may be different, but they both end on the flat surface.

Personally I want to do well in both aspects of art, because I believe you cannot really be a good artist without some skill level in both.

[Plekto]

Community college. Less than $25 a unit. :)

Japanese isn't a real "course" in this case - it's more like "personal enrichment" or whatever the term they are using right now for classes taken for your own benefit outside of a normal program.

$200 tops, including books.

The class to take, though, is anything in ECE.(Early childhood education). This looks fantastic on your transcript, and 6 units allows you to assist in preschools(hey - it beats tossing fries for minimum wage) - and working with kids for a summer or year also impresses the hell out of these programs. It's not a REAL teaching program/degree/major experience that scares them, but it shows that you can work with kids.

Save Japanese for the summer, or just learn it on your own. Talk to the instructor at your college - often they know of a zillion ways and programs to accomplish this on your own time.

[NERD]

Well, I don't plan on being a part-time student because I am grossly unprepared to do an internship during the spring- should've prepared for that months in advance, and I thought I would have to take extra classes just to graduate by end of Spring semester. Nor am I gonna try for a job, I already got one.

So if I am a full time student and pay the tuition for it, might as well take the courses for them- right now, I'm thinking 2 English courses, 2 art courses and Japanese. I COULD take 4 without Japanese and submit to senioritis, but then again, my tuition is just too expensive to do that.

I'm taking Japanese purely out of my own interest- I've fulfilled my foreign language credit by passing for Level 1 Korean.

No way I can afford to take ECE courses- sound interesting, but I'd rather work for a field I am interested in, even if I am not getting paid much. My four years of working at a movie theater at minimal wage proves that.

[tweek.3867]

Semi-off-topic-ish:

Do you like going to GW on the whole, NERD? A friend of mine goes there (majoring in Japanese Language & Lit., like I plan to do) and right now it's my second choice school (just below Conn College). I went down last April and met Hanami-sensei and sat in on a class with him; he's a really fun guy, if you know him? He focuses on courses involving Japan in one way or another.

[NERD]

I never had Hanami sensei- however, I have a lot of respect for the Japanese teachers at GW; they do their best to make the learning process as enjoyable as possible. Which is why I want to take Japanese next semester even though I don't really need to, and takes away the chance to try some other classes- like, I really wanted to try basketball!

Overall I like GW a lot. My father went to the graduate school here, so I am familiar with the area, not to mention I like DC a lot- it is a relatively small city, yet offers a lot more than similarly sized cities, lots of things to do. However, GW does not have the atmosphere of your usual 'college town' due to its location, and the tuition+housing+cost of living can be a lot, especially if you don't get any scholarships. The tuition for the freshmen is about $28000 a year, and with other costs can be upwards to +$40000 a year. So unless the school foot the bill, or your parents foot the bill, expect to have a hefty sum of loan by the time you graduate- a good number of students also work part-time jobs.

However, a lot of students are able to pursue a lot of internship opportunities thanks to being in DC, and the school itself is improving upon itself within the past 3 years I've been here. I haven't found the number of courses I have taken to be challenging, though that may have to do with the fact that I am an English/Fine Art major. GW's requirements for incoming classmen is becoming more strict, and the undergraduate school is gaining ranks in terms of prestige.

That's my take. You've mentioned that you've visited the campus, so I'll let you decide for yourself. And I'm pretty sure your friend can tell his/her own experience, which may be different from mine.

[tweek.3867]

That's actually somewhat similar to what I've heard-- although the price will be hovering at $50,000/yr, starting next year. It's getting to a point of complete absurdity. It definitely is a good school, though, from what I have seen, academically and otherwise.

Some of the professors there are pretty funny, too, like how one professor uses 死験 for the title of her midterms instead of 試験 [testing of death vs examination].

Anyways, now that I have successfully managed to derail the topic of conversation [^_^], I'll let you go back to it :p Thanks for the info.

I would throw in my $.02 sense about your predicament but I think it's somewhat too late for that now <_> Your last post about it, saying 2 Eng, 2 art, and 1 Japanese course, sounded like you had a good idea of what you were going to do. If I were you, I would just do whatever I could to avoid submitting to senioritis; given the absurdly high costs of college these days, it just seems like a waste to not take the full advantage of what you are being offered, in my eyes atleast.

[NERD]

Well, the school made a point that whatever you paid in freshmen year will be the same for rest of your school year, which is something other schools can't boast about. Granted, GW is an expensive school, and you will see your share of rich, snobby kids, but in all fairness, be glad GW's not located in Georgetown.

Also, the high tuition cost comes from the fact that GW is still an up-and-coming school that does not get as much endowment as some Ivy League schools. However, for my 3 years at GW, I received $12,000 each year for GW Guaranteed Grant, and received University/Alumni award that cost $4000/2500/12000 for each year I have been here. Especially this year half of my tuition was covered by the school, and it is not too rare to see someone who gets more money than I did. Add in the fact that I receive Federal workstudy, and it's not too bad.

I'm registering for my classes on Wednesday, which is the first day that is available to undergraduates. Currently I have about 133 credit hours under my belt.... which is another reason I need to graduate soon!

And yeah, I pretty much made up my mind about my schedule. 5 courses as described.

Oh yes, and good luck with your college applications. Tell me, is SAT score of 2050 high? I have no clue how recent SAT scores work.

[tweek.3867]

Agreed on the Georgetown comment. I visited Georgetown University as well. It was such a bad experience :( It was quite possibly the largest gathering of stuckup, rich kids I have ever seen.

Sounds like you're doing really well as far as aid is concerned. I'm just hoping I get a good scholarship there; if the price is cut enough, it'd definitely be higher up in my book of school's I want to go to.

For SATs, 2050 is definitely up there. That's just shy of a 700 average for the three tests. I was in that area, myself.

The test is more or less the same; the math and reading sections are the same (out of 800) points, but a little more difficult, and there is a new writing section, also worth 800 points, as well. So it's 800x3 instead of 800x2, like it used to be.. total of 2400.

Thanks for the luck :p And glad you got your schedule sorted out. It can be pretty frustrating, getting things like that to fall into place. As it stands, my schedule is a near-nightmare. I take courses at Conn College. They meet during high school hours, so I end up missing one or the other atleast two days a week D: But it's all good. It only took a little bit of con'ing to get my teachers to ignore the fact that I was missing so much class :p

[NERD]

I don't like Georgetown area myself. Most places are too expensive- a bill for myself at a cruddy seafood restaurant ran up $60, though there are some really expensive restaurants. Girls love it though for the shopping. Oh, GW and Georgetown got something of a rivalry going on.

Damn, that means my brother did better at SATs than I did... Maybe the tests are easier.

Hey, I'm done with this registration thing after next semester, but you? You got four years to start doing that.

[tweek.3867]

The tests are harder, now, lol. The math test uses higher level math. The old one only used geometry but the new one includes algebra 2 as well, if I remember right. I think they upped the difficulty of the critical reading section as well, but I can't remember... and of course the writing section used to be nonexistant.

A 2050 would probably be like.. 1370 or 1380. Something around there.

[NERD]

Huh, I got 1300. Didn't really matter since CalArts did not require SAT scores for admission.

Anyway, registration was yesterday, and I'll be taking these courses next semester-

-Chaucer (pre-1800 English)
-Children's Literature (19th Century English)
-Japanese 4
-Drawing II
-Introduction to Acting

I don't really expect Acting class to be assignment heavy, and if it is, I can always drop it. It's relatively light amount of classes, methinks.

[tweek.3867]

Not too shabby. Looks like it might be kind of heavy in the first three, but not too much, ne? Depends who is teaching the classes. Acting shouldn't be bad at all; any Introduction to ______ course can't be too heavy on assignments.

Good luck with it^^ Have fun 'n all that jazz.