Frenchwoman says killed frozen Seoul babies

[NERD]

Frenchwoman says killed frozen Seoul babies: source

Reuters
Wednesday, October 11, 2006; 4:18 PM

TOURS, France (Reuters) - A Frenchwoman has said she killed two of her own babies found dead in the freezer of her family's home in South Korea, a police source said on Wednesday.

A French public prosecutor said on Tuesday a French DNA test had confirmed Veronique Courjault and her husband Jean-Louis were the parents of the children found wrapped in towels and in plastic bags in the deep freeze.

They had previously denied being the parents.

"She admitted killing her children herself," said the police source, who asked not to be identified.

The Courjaults' lawyer, Marc Morin, appeared to confirm that police had secured a full confession in brief comments to waiting reporters.

"Mrs Courjault has admitted the facts she is accused of and says she acted on her own," Morin said. He did not elaborate.

The lawyer said Mrs Courjault had managed to hide her pregnancy from her husband because of his frequent traveling. She apparently gave birth to the two children at home.

The Courjaults, who have two other children who are alive, had until Wednesday midday maintained their innocence. They blamed the affair on a conspiracy linked to the husband's work in South Korea as an engineer for a U.S. company.

A French public prosecutor said on Tuesday the results from French DNA tests showed there was a "99.999 percent chance" the Courjaults were the parents of the dead babies, confirming the South Korean findings.

The French results led to the couple being detained in the central French city of Tours. Prosecutors there must decide on charges to bring against the couple, who remain in detention.

The bizarre case emerged in July when the husband told Korean police he had found the tiny corpses in the freezer at the family home in Seoul, after interrupting his holiday to return to Korea on business.

According to the Korean authorities, the children were born viable and appear to have breathed. However, they do not appear to have been fed or cleaned after birth, and weighed around 3 kg (six pounds) at birth. Their cause of death remains unknown.

However they met their fate, the infants must have been born before December 2003, when Veronique Courjault, 38, had a hysterectomy.

Veronique Courjault faces investigation by Korean officials but the couple are refusing to return and France does not, in principle, extradite its citizens.


I remember reading about this back in August, one of the reasons the Courjaults left Korea is because the media was jumping on the story, to the point of pursuing them in Tours, France. However, the Courjaults argued that they could not trust the DNA test results the Korean police had, which in the end had the same verdict as that of the French police.

[Kusoyaro]

There is only so much anger one can direct at these people. It's futile to even really talk about it, as nothing will be done. Yes, the woman killed her kids, and maybe she even had a reason (judgement should be impartial, look at both sides as if they were neither right nor wrong), but then in the end children are not born to be stuffed in freezers. Increasingly I get the urge to Boondock Saints it up, and I'm fairly sure that others, too, feel this desire. I do not really want to know why she did this, i do not even really care. The fact at the end of the day is that she had children and then killed them. Rather than have an abortion, rather than use contraceptives and rather than giving them up for adooption, she killed them. Ok. Now what? Send her to jail? Of course, what other recourse is there? They won't kill her, but then again, even if France revokes its stance on capital punishment and kills her, what then? Yes, she's dead. Sweet. But there are lots of others out there like her. So then the problem becomes greater.
Eugenics anyone?

[NERD]

Funny thing is, if they chose to stay in Korea, the maximum sentence for their deeds would be ten years, and given that they are French, I don't think they would get the same treatment as regular Korean inmates. Whether the French government would allow their citizens to be locked up in another country would be a different matter. However, I remember that they can serve lifetime under French jurisdiction, so I don't think the husband knew his wife did such thing.

Eugenics won't help to prevent such thing, because I believe genes are only the blueprint of a human being- what a person chooses to do goes beyond their personality and their character, but more with the circumstances and their way of thinking.

[/|/@/|/@し]

I really have nothing else to say other than that is very disturbing. The deaths added to the fact she kept them in the freezer for at least three years... >.<

[Plekto]

And why exactly is this forum turning into a daily what's bad with humanity blog?

Surely there's something better to talk about?

[Kusoyaro]

Nerd, while Eugenics may not sound too appealing, genes do play a part in personal development. Do not, please, associate eugenics with the Nazi concept of racial superiority. Eugenics simply means to remove undesired tendencies from the genetic code of humankind, all races. If a disease or whatever is in a person's gentic makeup, then it will either be removed or the person will not be allowed to have biological, free children; any children they may have must be screened and the negative traits removed.
In this case, any psychotic tendencies, any latent or inherent imbalances would have been removed during formation.

[NERD]

And why exactly is this forum turning into a daily what's bad with humanity blog?

Surely there's something better to talk about?

Bring it up then, please.

I did not associate with eugenics with the Nazis first of all, and while emotional problems such as depression/bipolar disorder/etc do show some links genes, what I'm saying is that even with such measures these sort of events will take place anyway, though it may be possible to have them at lower frequencies. However, when we say we are all equal as human beings, wouldn't that also mean that we would have the equal chance to born with talents and flaws like everyone else? Especially if our distinct characters set up apart from others as individuals, be that intelligence, height, weight, attractiveness, etc. I'm thinking Brave New World as an example, where there are class systems set apart by intelligence and physical superiority, determined from birth.

[Kusoyaro]

I did not associate with eugenics with the Nazis first of all, and while emotional problems such as depression/bipolar disorder/etc do show some links genes, what I'm saying is that even with such measures these sort of events will take place anyway, though it may be possible to have them at lower frequencies. However, when we say we are all equal as human beings, wouldn't that also mean that we would have the equal chance to born with talents and flaws like everyone else? Especially if our distinct characters set up apart from others as individuals, be that intelligence, height, weight, attractiveness, etc. I'm thinking Brave New World as an example, where there are class systems set apart by intelligence and physical superiority, determined from birth.


Sorry dude, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Bipolar disorders are not often caused by genes (I have bi-polar manic depression), but I am talking about such things as weak eyesight, syndromes, defects both mental and physical, and generally any form of retardation. Now when you say all humans are born equal, do you mean you believe thor that society espouses this? In either case, it's very wrong. People are not born the same, as much as we'd like to think so. Different races' DNA is suited for different things, it's called racial realism. I know we all like to believe it's not true, that we ar all born equal, but it's not. Races have been conditioned to live in a certain way over a period of years will adapt and it will become ingrained; genetic memory. I am not saying that by implementing eugenics we will all be predesinted, or all look, act, think, etc the same. But we will be rid of negative traits such as psychopathic and neurotic tendencies.
Sorry if this is not what you meant.

[NERD]

Yeah, that was not a very coherent paragraph I wrote up there.

I did not say bipolar disorder is not caused by genes, but that there are some studies that suggest ties to genes as one of the factors behind it.

When I say I believe that all human beings are born equal with the same chances of defects and enhancements- even with more widespread appications of eugenics in our society today, there are still people born with dwarfism, albinism, missing organs, as well as better metabolism which may help you stay fit and attractive than others, better looks, better physical talents, etc. Prenatal testings and screenings cut down the chances of being born with undesireable defects, but it's not perfect.

Of course, I'm not gonna deny that all human beings are not born equal in the age of genetic counseling, birth control, in vitro fertilization, and genetic engineering- if you are lucky enough to have parents to afford such measures, that is.

[Kusoyaro]

Yea, you're right, money again plays a huge part in this.
I don't like the recourse of actually having to think about resorting to eugenics to solve some of our problems, but it is a solution that will not deter or even punish after the fact, but to completely eradicate the problem in the first place.
Of course, genetic manipulation is a close cousin to eugenics, and it may well be that even in a few year it will become quite common to screen and modify your children.

[Kass]

It's sad that this couple will get away with it. France won't extradite them or try them for a crime not committed in France. :(

[NERD]

I don't like the recourse of actually having to think about resorting to eugenics to solve some of our problems, but it is a solution that will not deter or even punish after the fact, but to completely eradicate the problem in the first place.
Of course, genetic manipulation is a close cousin to eugenics, and it may well be that even in a few year it will become quite common to screen and modify your children.

I don't think eugenics will be able to completely eradicate the problems in the society- it may help, but I'm the kind of person who believes in the idea that surroundings and circumstances will affect your personality more than what you are born with.

I believe they are already perform genetic screening for Down syndromes, though to what extent I don't really know.


This thing is not over yet, unfortunately.

http://www.paris-link-home.com/news/121/ARTICLE/1259/2006-10-12.html

Frozen Babies: Véronique Courjault Admits to a Third Murder
Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:21:00
Gareth Cartman

Another twist to the horrifying frozen babies case has taken place today.

Véronique Courjault, who yesterday admitted to strangling her two new-born twins and putting their corpses in a freezer, has admitted to killing another child.
Véronique Courjault yesterday admitted to the infanticide of her two new-born twins in 2003. Today, she admitted a further pregnancy and a further killing, in 2002. Each time hiding the pregnancy from her husband, who was often away on business trips, she gave birth at the family home. The first pregnancy was before the couple moved to Seoul.

She has cleared her husband's name entirely and accepted full responsibility for her actions. Legal proceedings will take place in France, as French nationals cannot be extradited. South Korean officials have already helped their French counterparts by sending tests and documents, while French officials have raided the couple's house in the Touraine region of the Loire valley.

According to magistrates in France, the DNA tests are 99.999% accurate, although with Véronique Courjault's full and frank admission, there appears no need for recourse to them.


Kass, they are both under arrest for infanticide in France, so I don't think they are getting away with this. And like I've mentioned, they probably will get life, though I doubt the husband really knew anything about this.

[Beowulf]

Why can't this women just use a goddamn condom?

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

Why can't this women just use a goddamn condom?
that seems to be the question of choice nowdays.

[Kass]

http://www.paris-link-home.com/news/121/ARTICLE/1259/2006-10-12.html

Kass, they are both under arrest for infanticide in France, so I don't think they are getting away with this. And like I've mentioned, they probably will get life, though I doubt the husband really knew anything about this.

Apparently, only for the child who was killed in France. There will be no justice for the other two. For all their kicking and screaming whenever other countries seem to violate some international law, French citizens are above the laws of others.