Pope messes up big-time.

[Karthak]

Basically, the pope went and equaled Islam with violence in a speech:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5350882.stm

Is he retarded? This is going to be a bigger crisis than the Muhammed-pictures debacle.

[I Like Shinny!]

This is being thrown way out of context and once again the Muslims are being completely anal about their religion.

[King Kong]

The amusing thing is that the same muslims that found the Popes speech offensive, are the ones that chanted death threats to America and Israel.

Fucking hypocricy.

[I Like Shinny!]

It's also self righteous.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

I'm not exactly too shocked anymore. We live in an age where if you breath anything offensive to Islam someone in those countries over there will want you dead.

Heck, not to do some scare bashing, but someone wants you dead for being an American.

Radical Islam is getting a little out of hand in my opinion. *waits to get threatened*

[Black Dog]

I'm not exactly too shocked anymore. We live in an age where if you breath anything offensive to Islam someone in those countries over there will want you dead.

Heck, not to do some scare bashing, but someone wants you dead for being an American.

Radical Islam is getting a little out of hand in my opinion. *waits to get threatened*

Those Muslims that act like that are acting the way Christians used to be.Us westerners, just don;t take religion that seriously anymore.Except for a few fanactics.

[Darth_E_]

I think it's a mix of bad timing and bad words. Muslims are feeling that they are outcasted and the "evil western" forces are aiming to finish them off, so this speech added up to their feelings.

[Karthak]

This has the potential to totally blow up. This time it isnīt a small newspaper that shows islam the finger. No, it is the highest leader of one of the largest religions in the world. Is Benedictus already senile, or was he counting on a reaction like this?

[Angelyne]

I don't have a high opinion of the former Nazi turned Pope, but he's gettting an unfair amount of flack about this:

On September 12, 2006, in a lecture on "Faith, Reason and the University", Pope Benedict quoted the opinion of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." In the original German, Benedict XVI described this critical opinion of Manuel II as "astoundingly ... surprisingly harsh," ("in erstaunlich schroffer, uns überraschend schroffer Form").[45]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Concerning_the_Islam_controversy




The Pope also used a questionable translation of the Byzantine Emperor's words.

[Josh]

No, it is the highest leader of one of the largest religions in the world.

Christianity is the largest religion in the world. It's a stagnant religion and Islam is the fastest growing, but for now, or rather, last I heard which was only a few months ago.

Nazi Pope made a mistake not mentioning the Crusades too, but yeah, Muslims get a bit too uppity sometimes. :bored:

Ah well, give them another 600 years and it will be like Christianity and they won't care anymore.

[羽之助]

Wait. So he said anti-Muslim words, followed by a comment that the original pope who said it was a douchebag?

[AIP]

Really some Muslims are totally anal about this who gives a damn, everybody has a right to their own opinion. It´s retard to first say that ones religion is tolerant and then go out on the streets with messages like "Behead those that slander Islam".

[Civilization Phrase III]

The Middle-East in general needs to grow up, regardless of religion.

I'm fucking sick of them acting like kids.

[c-rex]

I like how the Pope called them violent and to protest they started burning Christian Churches. Way to prove the point.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Christianity is the largest religion in the world. It's a stagnant religion and Islam is the fastest growing, but for now, or rather, last I heard which was only a few months ago.

Nazi Pope made a mistake not mentioning the Crusades too, but yeah, Muslims get a bit too uppity sometimes. :bored:

Ah well, give them another 600 years and it will be like Christianity and they won't care anymore.
The Pope ain't the head of Christianity -- just Catholicism.

[Josh]

The Pope ain't the head of Christianity -- just Catholicism.

Yeah, I know, but I figure most Christian denominations would side more with the pope too. If that makes any sense.

I mean Catholics and most other Christian Groups may not see eye to eye on a lot of stuff but you'd still group them all as Christians right?

[Kaji]

Careful man, a Baptist would try to burn you at the stake if you in any way imply that the Pope is their leader. True, Roman Catholicism is the original Christian denomination, but the other denominations have their reasons for having split off from it, and the Pope has been central to a number of them. The only other denomination that I'd say would really have any respect for the authority of the Pope would be the Orthodox churches, but even then he's seen as equal to the Patriarch of each respective Orthodox church in that context.

[Josh]

I wasnt trying to imply that the Pope is the head of the Baptist demonination or any other demonination besides Catholicism. But I guess it did come off as such and im sorry.

Its hard to explain, but lemme try again. Say, hypothetically, if the world was to be divided between As and Zs. Now lets say that you are an H. Now, you have a choice in who you go with but you have slightly more in common with A. You and A have your differences, thats easy to see, but Z is so much further down the road from you.

Now that i've explained it, I've lost sight of my original point. x_x

[Overkongen]

Like, I'm an atheist, but if I were forced to choose, I would rather side with the group that promotes having a guilty conscience, that the peaceful torch-toting homocidial maniacs.

I've been looking at them for a bit now, and it basically comes down to this:

Muslim troubleshooting:
1. Kill it.
2. Torch it.
3. Beat it.
4. Insist that you are upset that people still dare say that you are violent, even after steps 1-3.

[Kusoyaro]

I don't think Muslims troubleshoot like that. I think some of them do. But certainly not all the ones I've met. See, the thjing is, people love grouping things together. Which people really shouldn't do. if I said white people like to enslave races and take over countries, that would be an immense generalization. And it wouldn't be particularly true, especially in this era.
Be careful what you see and read in the news, it's mostly all just focused propoganda for behind-the-scenes politking. Why do you think you don't see Islamic Aid societies in the news? They do exist, you know? Why do you not see Christian Pro-Life Groups (this is for the people in the US) when they protest abortion and what not (they do, but only when there is a serious issue[Shiavo, Kevorkian, etc).
Oh, i'm not Muslim, but I don't like it when people talk about other peoples' religions/beliefs/customs/whatever without looking at every side. because otherwise that's just wilfull ignorance.
But this is the internet, so say whatever you want.

[Angelyne]

Like, I'm an atheist, but if I were forced to choose, I would rather side with the group that promotes having a guilty conscience, that the peaceful torch-toting homocidial maniacs.

I've been looking at them for a bit now, and it basically comes down to this:

Muslim troubleshooting:
1. Kill it.
2. Torch it.
3. Beat it.
4. Insist that you are upset that people still dare say that you are violent, even after steps 1-3.


It's not very fair to make generalizations based on what mainstream media shows us. Every religion has it's share of nutjobs. If we're going to make generalizations by what these idiots do, then Christians should also be regarded as "homocidial maniacs". After all, all Christians blow up abortion clinics, protest funerals with signs saying "God Hates Fags", and belong to the KKK, right?

[Radiance]

Really some Muslims are totally anal about this who gives a damn, everybody has a right to their own opinion. Itīs retard to first say that ones religion is tolerant and then go out on the streets with messages like "Behead those that slander Islam".

Urge to hand them a dictionary and turn it to the definition of slander rising! >:D I was laughing my ass off at a video clip of radical tards in the UK saying that freedom of speach rights are a "loop hole". I mean really, what the hell do these nutjobs think would happen if people stopped fighting politically correct wars against them? Do they not understand how vastly disadvantaged they are? I'll only touch on one aspect of how disadvantaged they are... Technology.

Hopefully one day religion will cease to exist, but that will require much stronger world wide education. (Yeah, ironic that an american is making statements about improved education.) Remove fear tactics and propaganda from the equation by educating the masses. Things will logically solve themselves from there.

[Roxie]

I wasnt trying to imply that the Pope is the head of the Baptist demonination or any other demonination besides Catholicism. But I guess it did come off as such and im sorry.

Its hard to explain, but lemme try again. Say, hypothetically, if the world was to be divided between As and Zs. Now lets say that you are an H. Now, you have a choice in who you go with but you have slightly more in common with A. You and A have your differences, thats easy to see, but Z is so much further down the road from you.

Now that i've explained it, I've lost sight of my original point. x_x

:eyepop: what? :boggled:

Seriously though, outside of Catholic, no one follows the pope.

I don't really know any Catholics, so it takes me by surprise that anyone believes/takes seriously anything that man's mouth. The whole idea of a "pope" and women not being able to speak God, just rubs me ALL wrong!

course, I'm not Catholic. I still don't understand the idea of Saints.

[Kusoyaro]

It really doesn't matter if you don't know any Catholics and therefore don't know why anyone could respect what the Pope says. You've never been to Mars yet you know you'd die there without a atmospheric protection module or spacesuit. The same applies here. I am not Christian, but that shouldn't mean that go around teeling everyone how ridiculous Christianity is. The fact remains that a very very large number of people (outweighing Protestants and every other denomiantion) are Catholic, and they do, in fact, follow the Pope. Liken it to the US Presidency. So what he says will obviously carry weight.
This is why religion shouldn't be talked about, ever.

[Roxie]

It really doesn't matter if you don't know any Catholics and therefore don't know why anyone could respect what the Pope says. You've never been to Mars yet you know you'd die there without a atmospheric protection module or spacesuit. The same applies here. I am not Christian, but that shouldn't mean that go around teeling everyone how ridiculous Christianity is. The fact remains that a very very large number of people (outweighing Protestants and every other denomiantion) are Catholic, and they do, in fact, follow the Pope. Liken it to the US Presidency. So what he says will obviously carry weight.
This is why religion shouldn't be talked about, ever.
What?

No, no, it's ridiculous to me.

I understand that Catholics do respect it, I just don't understand why. And I especially don't understand why anyone who is not Catholic would give it weight. However, I do think what he said was especially unwise.

If someone's Catholic and believes in the idea of pope and what he has to say, I won't speak aganist them. That's their choice and their right to believe. I'm not going to try and convince them otherwise, but I'm not going to pretend that I understand/agree.

I don't get it and I'm okay with that. But I'm always open to learn.

[Kusoyaro]

Urgh there I go again putting your foot in my mouth

[Pierrot le Fou]

600 million protestants vs. 1 billion catholics, approximately.

[Kusoyaro]

I love how you pull facts out of that magic hat of yours. Like Felix and his bag. Wtf, man, where do you get those biomemorychips? My life would be so much easier if I could remember such immense factual data as you seem to absorb like Bounty (the quicker picker-upper) on tough to absorb stains.

So yea, there are plenty of Catholics out there. I took a test online and apparantly if I was any other religion, I would be Catholic. Why? I don't know. I would have thought whatever it is that Klingons believe would be closest to my beliefs [Klingons are a fictional species in the Star Trek universe. They are portrayed as a violent, warloveing peoples, when in truth they are a gentle, industrious race, with art and culinary expertise to rival the greatest humanity offers].

[Jetsetlemming]

Ok, ok, get away from each other's throats now, kiddies. My desire to see bloodshed was sated by kill bill tonight. The original point, I think, made by Josh was that protestants, while not under the control of the Pope, a) are told close to the same things by their sect's leaders as the pope tells Catholics (with a few differences of opinion), and thus, the protestants, as fellow, Christians, go by the words that the pope says along with the other christian leaders, and b) they may not be Catholic themselves, but the Pope is still Christian, and thus closer than the Muslim middle easterners who are burning churches and killing people protesting being called violent.
Angelyn, when's the last time you heard of an Abortion Clinic/Women's center getting blown up? :boggled: When's the last time you heard about the KKK doing anything but talking, either?
Oh, and the pope apologized for pissing the muslims off.



....So yeah.

[Angelyne]

Why does that matter? My point still stands: it's very biased to make generalizations about an entire religion based completely upon the minority of hateful, misguided fools found within it.

[Jetsetlemming]

How is it a minority? Most of the middle east explodes into violent protests whenever the slightest thing happens. I'm not making a generalization about the entire religon. I'm making an accurate description of a very shitty region of the world that happens to be mostly that religon.

[Kusoyaro]

A shitty region decribes what you said very accurately. I don't know if you've been to the middle east, btu I have. It's shitty. And people REALLY don't like that, since for the last ever-since-humanity-started, it's been more or less the best place to live until the spice trades opened up West. Now the economic boom that allowed Europe, certain pasrts of Asia and the North Americas to become such succeses (namely, trade for said items from the New World) didn't really make it to the Middle East since the fucking Ottoman Empire was collasping at that time and infrastructure was so shit they couldn't spend any dosh on anythig else other than civilities and vercantalist/mercantalist restructuring. Adding to that, the religious tensions continued to worsen especially after the abolishment of Israel and then the re-emergence of it. So not only does that region feel like shit for fallling from such a height, but the religious problems there are in no way helped by the continued aggravation of other nations. I know what you're going to say, but then it really becomes an argument, in the end, over the state of modern capitalism and its militarist backing

[Josh]

The original point, I think, made by Josh was that protestants, while not under the control of the Pope, a) are told close to the same things by their sect's leaders as the pope tells Catholics (with a few differences of opinion), and thus, the protestants, as fellow, Christians, go by the words that the pope says along with the other christian leaders, and b) they may not be Catholic themselves, but the Pope is still Christian, and thus closer than the Muslim middle easterners who are burning churches and killing people protesting being called violent.

You got it? YES! Thank you! My point exactly! :clap:

[Jetsetlemming]

Kusoyaro, why would what you said, basically, "The region's gone to hell, this is why, sucks, huh" would start an argument? O_o

[Kusoyaro]

Because you would argue that without the intervention of armed force, countless people would die, then it may escalate into a full out war, a nyuclear one at that, and then the rest of the world wil be involved and this war will be the biggest one. And then I would argue that it's all due to Capitalist greed. With less money they put into going to the middle east and using force, the world could rather simply solve many (not all) of the problesm that the people there deal with. Etc and on and on and on.

[Jetsetlemming]

I would do what now? :boggled: Where are you getting these ideas?
Anyway, the violence in the middle east would NOT go away if the west left it alone, and it did not start because of america. You think the middle eastern muslims and middle eastern jews could get along without america? Nope. You think the different tribes of Islam could have a peace if left to their own devices? Not unless all of them but one died out. Countless people are dying with or without the armed forces. As far as I'm concerned, the forces deployed there are a waste of lives and humanity for a lost cause. I'm not going to touch your capitalist greed speel, besides calling you A PRODUCT OF POSTMODERNDITY CAPITALISM!!!11!1!11!

[Kusoyaro]

my ideas are from logic, dude. have you never taken any form of political science? and anyway wtf are you talkng about lol? i am sayign that of course the mideast wouldn't leave each other alone without intervention. fuck. but the different tribes of islam?! man, the tension between them is almost nothing, dude. its just the sunis and shiites that have any eral beef, and thats died down ever since palestine. you're not going to touch my capitalist greed speel, fine w/e, but don't be such a pompous ass as to blithly ignore that the money being put into the middle east could easily rebuild the infrastructure adn give them the kind of capitalist market they want. shit what the hell man, go to iraq or kuwait or palestine, the shit they want most is the shit we take for granted. thats why the bomb the fuck out of each other, they kill and rage. w/e.
i understand why its hard for lots of people to argue with me, since i take my side, your side and another third party side, but thats the only way to approach such issues. and in this unipolar world we live in now, unfortunately mate, the us has a lot of blame as to what happens in the world.

[Jetsetlemming]

........in english, please? All I got out of that is that you called me a pompous ass and implied I need a political science course (something I have indeed taken) to understand what's going on in the middle east. That, and lots of random swearing. Who tries to make a serious political point interlaced with shits and fucks? Really?

[Kass]

I love how everyone just ignores how badly Pope Benedict was mis-quoted. He read a long-dead emporer's words and then condemned them. Now he's being blasted for insulting Islam, when he, in reality, condemned someone who really insulted Islam.

And just so you know, every man in Germany who is the Pope's age was a member of the Nazi youth, already fighting in the military or in a concentration camp. That doesn't mean he or any other of those young men agreed with Hitler. It meant they didn't want to get shot. Give it a rest already. The man has done nothing to indicate he in any way supports anything Naziism stands for.

*edit to fix a mistake*

[Pierrot le Fou]

I love how you pull facts out of that magic hat of yours. Like Felix and his bag. Wtf, man, where do you get those biomemorychips? My life would be so much easier if I could remember such immense factual data as you seem to absorb like Bounty (the quicker picker-upper) on tough to absorb stains.

Magic hat? It's known as wikipedia. When doing some basic fact-checking, I tend to use it often because it pops up first in google searches. My point wasn't that there are a lot of Catholics, but that there are a lot of Protestants. And the Pope doesn't have much pull in most Protestant congregations, as Protestantism was created to protest against the Catholic church and its various problems.

God forbid I look something up when I don't know it rather than going off half-cocked and looking like a fool.

[Civilization Phrase III]

I love how everyone just ignores how badly Pope Benedict was mis-quoted. He read a long-dead pope's words and then condemned them. Now he's being blasted for insulting Islam, when he, in reality, condemned someone who really insulted Islam.

And just so you know, every man in Germany who is the Pope's age was a member of the Nazi youth, already fighting in the military or in a concentration camp. That doesn't mean he or any other of those young men agreed with Hitler. It meant they didn't want to get shot. Give it a rest already. The man has done nothing to indicate he in any way supports anything Naziism stands for.
Nice job, the quote was taken way out of context. FTW.

[Kass]

FTW.

In english please?

[羽之助]

For The Win, recent Internet slang for something that is good or excellent and beats all.

[Civilization Phrase III]

Sorry, I forget not everyone is an otaku like myself~ 羽之助 is correct.

[Kass]

Thank you!

[drdan]

I find it ironic that some Muslims decided to burn down Christian church's and killed a Nun because the Pope called their religion violent. I also find it ironic that many Muslim leaders and clerics are asking the Pope to apoligize but they are not asking the crazies who burned down the church's and killed innocent people to stop what they are doing. All they did was prove the what the Pope said is right. I understand that there are many good, in fact great Muslims out there but how crazy can you get.

[Karthak]

This whole mess just makes me depressed.:gloomy:

[Klilynkun]

I find it ironic that some Muslims decided to burn down Christian church's and killed a Nun because the Pope called their religion violent. I also find it ironic that many Muslim leaders and clerics are asking the Pope to apoligize but they are not asking the crazies who burned down the church's and killed innocent people to stop what they are doing. All they did was prove the what the Pope said is right. I understand that there are many good, in fact great Muslims out there but how crazy can you get.

Yeah.... when i read that in the papers yesterday i was like :duh: :duh: :duh:

talk about proving someone's point

[Kass]

All they did was prove the what the Pope said is right.

The Pope didn't say it. He was reading from a text quoting Byzantine Emporer Manuel II Palaiologos and he said that overly harsh. The speech was comparing early muslim teachings on religious freedoms, the current teachings of jihad and the point was "reason and faith go hand in hand, and that the concept of a holy war is always unreasonable, and against the nature of God, Muslim or Christian."

Of course, it would be terribly inconvenient for radicals of any faith to actually put things in context.

[Klilynkun]

The speech was comparing early muslim teachings on religious freedoms, the current teachings of jihad and the point was "reason and faith go hand in hand, and that the concept of a holy war is always unreasonable, and against the nature of God, Muslim or Christian."

I don't think that that's entirely true as the islamic bombers continuosly quote the koran stating that allah says they should kill the infidels. In a lot of the parts of london you can go to mosques and get pamphlets were they quote koran verses. So I don't think that holy war is unreasonable to the muslim God.

[Kass]

To whom are you replying?

[Klilynkun]

fixed it... i was replying to you...well...the quote from the pope

[Kaji]

I could pull verses out of the Christian Bible where the Lord led soldiers into battle and use them to justify holy wars from a Christian perspective as well. I just saw a post on another board that sums up what I am about to say really well, so I'm going to paste that person's words on it to get it across more clearly:

What I mean by proof-text-poker is that people take one verse and then create an entire worldview out of it. I find that my faith is grounded in the whole of scripture - so I embrace all scripture and particularly find clarity in the life of Christ. For instance, if someone uses a scripture to say that Christians must be holy and set apart from the world and therefore we can have no contact with the world whatsoever - I can look to Christ's example for some clarity and find that he was holy but he also interacted with society in a dynamic way. Does that make more sense? I love scripture - I enjoy reading it quite a bit - however I am careful that I don't read into scripture what I want to hear and that I am accountable to others for my interpretation. What I believe has been tried and tested numerous times and I am confident in my beliefs because of this.

[Klilynkun]

I could pull verses out of the Christian Bible where the Lord led soldiers into battle and use them to justify holy wars from a Christian perspective as well. I just saw a post on another board that sums up what I am about to say really well, so I'm going to paste that person's words on it to get it across more clearly:

that's true but when you read the koran - which i have - you find whole chapters dedicated to this mohammed killing people because they wouldn't turn to islam. when reading the bible the reason given for them fighting is because the christian god was supposedly dealing with those other places but they wouldn't repent so he brought along the children of isreal to utterly destroy them. In a lot of the cases the isrealites weren't supposed to take any spoils from the city and when they did bad things happened to them because they disobeyed their god.

That's not the same thing as bow to allah or i'll chop your head off.

I understand proof text, and being taken out of context and stuff like that. But proof texts aren't usually more than 1 or 2 sentences. And the koran describes entire incidents in more than 5 paragraphs that are used by muslims in my area to describe why they should fight in the jihad.

Like for example when mohammed presented himself to the jewish people after establishing himself as a prophet in his own community. he tried to convince them that he was a prophet, they didn't believe him, so he killed them and took their treasure, animals, women, etc.

Oh yeah... go ahead a pull a bit from the bible to show where they were to conduct a holy war to convert people.

[Kusoyaro]

Reading stuff that happened in th Bible and reading history are two fundementally different things. During the post-Rome chaos, and the Crusades, Christian soldiers went around force converting the entire Celtic nation inot Christians. They burned and killked everyone who was against them. The same in Eastern Europe. They force-converted the pagans (nature-worshippers/old-way worshippers[zeus and all them in some cases], that's what the word basically means), or killed them all. If they encountered any Muslims they'd kill them.
Don't assume anything. Christianty during the Medieval Age was just as barbaric as anything else.

[Kaji]

Not sure if this is directed at me or Klilyn, but just in case...

Don't assume anything. Christianty during the Medieval Age was just as barbaric as anything else.

Haven't said anything to the contrary, either. I was just pointing out that if we want to pull passages to support violence from a religion's holy texts, it's easily possible. In spite of that though, that doesn't necessarily mean that that is the way that it intends you to live your life. Historical accounts of wars and such describe things as they were then, not necessarily as they (or the ethics relating to them) are now.

[Kusoyaro]

Lol, I know, I was just countering both of your arguments that history (in this case Christian) is written in the Bible. Which it isn't. I mean, if you believe in it, then parts of history were certainly writtn down, but to say that whatever is written in the Bible is alll there is is seriously overlooking the fact that religion is a fluid entity, changing over time even if its proponents don't want it to: in this case I am sayign that after the Bible was written, people went and did things in the God that are contrary to The Christ's teachings, init?
Every religion has it's negative side (even mine, I can admit that), but to imply that if you can't find negative verses in scruiptire means negativity isn't a part of the religion is ridiculous. Yea, the Quran basically teaches that conversion back in the days of Muhammed were forced, but weren't Christian conversion also, in a manner? During the time of the Roman Fall, the Cymru used to ward of the Angles and Pixts, and in some cases had agreements over land and such, but when the Christians came into their land, they began converting the Saxons to Christianity (at the point of the sword - historically), and then used these same warriors to kill the Celts. Later under the banner of Uther, they try to unite the Celts and Christians, but when he dies the last of the Old Roman Legion-supporters basically fuck things up and threaten to kill the Celts if they don't convert, again. It took till Pendrago's kid, Arthur (you know him), to sort it all out.

[oneangrybeaver]

Later under the banner of Uther, they try to unite the Celts and Christians, but when he dies the last of the Old Roman Legion-supporters basically fuck things up and threaten to kill the Celts if they don't convert, again. It took till Pendrago's kid, Arthur (you know him), to sort it all out. Was King Arthur even a real person? I'm pretty sure there's an endless debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_basis_for_King_Arthur) on that.

But back to the important point.

Historically, yeah, pretty much every religion had its share of violence in the medieval age. That's not the same thing as saying how much their holy texts justified that violence, though. Like saying that the Bible or Koran is more advocate of violence than the other isn't saying that either is accurate history. It's two completely different arguments: comparing factual histories and comparing religious values.

I'm going to check out the Koran when it comes in the mail (free, thanks to good ol' CAIR), and compare for myself.

[Darth_E_]

The thing when you read the Qura'n is that you need to read it within historical context ( ie : each verse was revealed after a certain event and is directed regarding or to a certain scope of people) otherwise you'll find it self-contradictory or you'll miss the point it's trying to make.

[drdan]

It's great that all this information is out in the open but it doesn't matter what happened during the Crusades, what Muhammed did, what the Israelites did because it was in the past. What we need to focus on is the present. Do you think that Christians will start a .violent crusade to convert others to Christianity now, in modern times or do you think that Islamists/Muslims are more likely to do that or rather many of them are already doing it?