Hypocracy.

[JudoPorkChop]

Now, I don't necessarily wish for this to spiral into more forum drama, but it does need to be put out there:

A while back, there was a call to elevate the discourse. To set forth and enforce rules designed to bring undesireable elements to heel, and foster some level of stability to conversations.

Now, I shall not name names, or link posts, people have read them plainly enough, and no mud shall be slung here. But, if you are someone who makes the call for forum elitism, you do not immediately turn around and engage in the behavior you denounce. This is the sole reason I believe that the "elite" around here don't exist in the first place, because I see them personally attacking people, derision over posting style over content, and trolling.

<rant>

I'm no angel. I'm not going to say I don't do it. But damn, if you're going to play the holier-than-thou card, for fuck's sake, at least try to be holy for more than three seconds.

</rant>

As I said in one of the posts I've noted, hypocracy does not create order. If you call for rules, if you make rules, you do not break them with impunity. Rules are applied to everyone equally, or they apply to no one at at all. If they are not enforced, then the consequences for any and all following actions fall not on the rulebreakers, but on those who fail to enforce with any level of vigor.

[PopCulturePooka]

^ Did not read ^

[JudoPorkChop]

Ah, but thank you for bumping the post. For that I appreciate.

[Marblehead]

I'm so glad you wrote this, because I was on the verge of bringing out my copy of www.Wikipedia.org to reeducated some people. Not that I'm any saint either.

[KujiInRetsu]

The forum fights get real old, real quick, I'll have to agree to that. Not a saint, not like any of us are, but we at least have the good sense not to get dragged headlong into a flame war that accomplishes nothing, since your opponent is halfway around the world.

[Jay]

Elitism = thumbsdown. Show me an elitist in this place - ANYWHERE - and I'll counter with three productive members.

And it's spelt hypocrisy.

[MeneerDijk]

three words: Notify your moderator.

You can keep on making threads making vague complaints and create more turmoil, you could also let the moderators know what bugs you. The hardest part about modding is knowing when lines are being crossed. some people disguise flaming or trolling in ways hard to pick up. I want to treat everyone equally, no matter the post count, or reputation.

[JudoPorkChop]

The forum fights get real old, real quick, I'll have to agree to that. Not a saint, not like any of us are, but we at least have the good sense not to get dragged headlong into a flame war that accomplishes nothing, since your opponent is halfway around the world.

The problem isn't necessarily being dragged into a flame war, as much as it is who exactly is doing the dragging. You can't make a call for no personal attacks and trolling, and then personally attack people and go on a trolling spree, and expect everyone to just be quiet about it. It invalidates the entire message.

[KujiInRetsu]

You have to admit though, flame wars are the root cause of some of this hypocrisy. People's emotions get the better of them, some more than others, and they lose control. I really don't enjoy it when that happens, and I try to quell the flames as they appear. A losing battle sometimes, I feel.

Notify the mods. An excellent idea.

[JudoPorkChop]

Very well, Specific complaint lodged.

[Iekleane]

Damn straight and thats why I read almost everything as if it was a joke, that way I wont take anything as an insult. And you should all do what I do because I'm that freaking awesome!

[CNagy]

I try to keep all of my less constructive, well-written posts within the padded walls, but every now and then one escapes into the forum proper. Occasionally, though, I purposely play the hypocrite-- someone may say something that I somewhat agree with (or have even stated that I agreed with earlier or in a different thread,) but in order to get a little more depth to it I'll stand against them.

I think the blame is equally shared, though, because some of the flames that I see are in response to obvious flamebait, and others are in response to what the poster should know by now tends to generate alot of heat.

[Jay]

Damn straight and thats why I read almost everything as if it was a joke, that way I wont take anything as an insult. And you should all do what I do because I'm that freaking awesome!

That's what I do. Unless someone's post really deserves a withering comeback, I take it with a fair old bit of salt.

I like to play the "bridge" though, if that's even the right word. If there's a subject that people are up in arms over, I'll make a somewhat contraversial comment that someone will pick up on and keep fanning the heat. And that would make me laugh.

Everything I say on this forum is carefully thought out to make me laugh and it makes other people laugh too, which is my purpose in life. :D

[Iekleane]

That's what I do. Unless someone's post really deserves a withering comeback, I take it with a fair old bit of salt.

I like to play the "bridge" though, if that's even the right word. If there's a subject that people are up in arms over, I'll make a somewhat contraversial comment that someone will pick up on and keep fanning the heat. And that would make me laugh.

Everything I say on this forum is carefully thought out to make me laugh and it makes other people laugh too, which is my purpose in life. :D

And here I thought it was just because you were an ass. But no your words are too deep and full of meaning for that and you would make a fine new member to Fujin. Join us!

[Jay]

And here I thought it was just because you were an ass. But no your words are too deep and full of meaning for that and you would make a fine new member to Fujin. Join us!

Oh, apart from the times when I'm just being a plain asshole.

Sorry, I forgot about that.

[Iekleane]

Oh, apart from the times when I'm just being a plain asshole.

Sorry, I forgot about that.

Ah, well atleast we've gotten that out of the way.

[Jay]

Ah, well atleast we've gotten that out of the way.

Good. Now stop hijacking JPC's thread.

[Marblehead]

You know, I don't even mind flaming or trolling. Especially when it comes to political discussions. I think it's a natural part of discourse( just look at the British Parliment). As Abe Lincoln said, you're never going to please them all, all of the time (if you try to bust me on the exact wording, you're a 'tard).

[koku]

I agree it's annoying for someone to claim "maturity" then dive in and play the namecalling and personal attack game....It's a bit ironic.

but alas, some people don't care.

I learned the hard way-- but a forums a forum. So I'm just trying to avoid it all.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Gee, I wonder who this is a veiled swipe at?

I'm not an elitist. Period. There is nothing elite about expecting at least a bare minimum level of coherent dialogue before people click post. There is nothing elite about assuming that people should give something 30 seconds of thought before responding. Were I elitist, I would suggest that all young people and folks with an IQ under 110 or an SAT score under 1200 couldn't post here. But I'm not, because I'm not an elitist.

And it's not as if I've sat around and proclaimed to be a saint. I've been stating that I'm an asshole for a mighty long time, and haven't really changed my attitude nor tried to pretend that it isn't there.

People's problem with me is that I'm an asshole to them, or to one of their friends, and they despise me on a personal level rather than they despise me on a theoretical or abstract one. And that's pretty petty.

Does it really shock anyone as to who the originator and main contributors to the thread were? Rather telling don't you think?

[l337m45t3r]

There is nothing elite about assuming that people should give something 30 seconds of thought before responding.

And yet, your posts are often the most thoughtless on the boards. :rolleyes:

Get over yourself.

[akitaka]

I think he's got plenty of thought. It's just his tone, and method of presentation.

Seems like a clash of pride issues, to me. But to each his own.

[Citizen]

This thread is slathered in idiocy. Go compare your eCocks somewhere else.

So many of you complain about this person or that, when the simple fact is, very few of you seem to be able to have a simple debate without starting a flame/troll/bait war, or without then having to start a new thread bitching about certain character traits that certain people have or making vague insults.

If someone is acting like a pompous ass in a thread, get over it, or get back at them by being a better debator and a bigger person. Not by going way the fuck off topic and starting a huge quote train in an attempt to knock them off their high horse. If logic escapes them, ignore them. Some people will not listen. Too bad, let it go instead of derailing a thread.

Every little broad generalization doesn't have to turn into a flame war. Every little bit of ego doesn't have to be pointed out. Every error in spelling, grammer, and punctuation doesn't need to be hounded. Every time someone with a big ego makes a mistake, it doesn't have to turn into a "lolz omg u made mistaek but u think u so great hahaha!!1"fest. You don't need to spam up threads and bother people if they don't provide links to every damn little bit of info. And so on, and so forth.

Seriously. :(

[JudoPorkChop]

Ah, very true.

Also, this was more of a public call to rouse the mods to action. If they prefer a PM, then that is what I shall do. I took no swipe at no specific person, regardless of what some may think.

I observed quite a few posters here in a few situations, both of which ended up in a group of people attacking another for some minor slight or deficiency in posting style. From ragging on 84 word perfect sentences to juvenile jabs such as P______t's. But that could be Pippleschnott's as much as it could be Pierrot's. So I'm not talking about him. And despite the RWPW rules, I think we could have done without a topic calling out any one person for no other purpose than for general ridicule, Prom or not. Even here, where I mentioned nobody in specific, someone took offense, and went on the attack. And, clear out of the blue, someone attacked them.

This is why I say that the civilized discourse in these forums never existed in the first place. Even Citizen's very strong point is buried under a general attack. Though, I really would like to bring a pack of old school LUEsers, SRK trolls, maybe even some SA goons for comparison, to see if our trolls just use different tactics. Mebbe I could even try to summon LJDrama and Encyclopedia Dramatica out of their little cave on the internets. But that's heading into the realm of just plain sadistic, as opposed to academic, so in the interests of not crapifying the forums, we'll leave that alone.

[Citizen]

Even Citizen's very strong point is buried under a general attack.

True enough. Although, if you're willing to dig that deep, damn near anything can be made negative. :D

It was more of a request from an admin. With plenty of examples to back it up. Examples have to come from somewhere.

[JudoPorkChop]

How is "This thread is slathered in idiocy" a positive thing?

Unless... Idiocy= Maple syrup?

But then, there are nothing but guys here. Us in maple syrup does no good!

Summon MRirian! Summon Shamu! Hot chicks in maple syrup, post-haste!

Yes, I am a pig. *oink*

[Pierrot le Fou]

And yet somehow there are threads of hundreds of posts that have no mud-slinging whatsoever on a topic that certainly could have some heated debate (that would be the Japanese thread, for those just joining us). People tend to accept corrections on things from people who know better, and all that.

Citizen is right, and that's why I've ignored two posters, and that's why I've ignored other certain threads/PMs. I'm not perfect, and I've been admitting as much since the first incarnation of these forums. Yet people are sitting around and taking potshots for purely personal purpose, regardless of the content of my posts (or lack thereof).

You think I'm thoughtless? Suit yourself. You think I'm an asshole? Suit yourself. You think intelligent debate is impossible on this forum? Then don't bother participating. What I have been railing against, for quite a while, is the inability to have threads stay on topic with semi-rational posts which indicate the meaning that the poster is trying to convey.

I've never seen a forum where such a request was even necessary. Typically the POINT of a forum is to communicate your beliefs in a way that other people can understand.

I am sick of the slew of cliques on this site who seem to think that they are the cock of the walk, and back each other up as if this is some sort of 4th grade fight on the playground after school. I am sick of the inability of certain posters to admit that they're wrong. I am sick of the lack of a single forum in which there is some semblance of rational discussion. I am sick of seeing intelligent posters around as much as they were because of the problems with the forum.

I am seriously considering saying fuckit, and letting people tend to themselves.

I have no problem with forums filled with immaturity. I do, after all, post at Big Daikon (http://www.bigdaikon.com) which enjoys its share of truly brainless posts, discussions, slews of trolls, and zero moderation. I have no problem with forums filled with younger people, as I oftentimes visit forums filled with college-age kids. What I have a problem with is places where asinine behaviour is rewarded, that calls to shout it down are derided as poorly as the posts the calls are directed at.

I have a problem with the posters who call me elitist while making yet ANOTHER thread about the big bad elitist bully.

No matter how elitist you think I am, there are certain posters who actively whine about me to each other. Sure, I bitch about the occasional bout of idiocy, but I do it publicly where anyone can watch. I don't sit around talking behind other people's backs as if this is high school, and trying to get an agreement about how uncool everyone who's outside that clique is.

That's elitism. And it's not me who's doing it.

The difference between me and the posters who come around less frequently is that I actually state what's on my mind in a loud voice instead of keeping quiet and letting myself come less and less. But perhaps I should just take a page from their strategy book and quietly fade away. Then you'll be free of my horrible elitism, and can create all the threads blaming me for everything from the extinction of the dinosaurs to the fall of Rome without opposition.

[JudoPorkChop]

Well, so much for hot naked chicks slathered in idiocy...

PLF, you ain't the whole reason for this thread. Damn right you're a part of it, but there are others who seriously need to take it down a peg, and I've indirectly pointed to them. Also, note I'm posting less. Note that this is due to the fact that a lot of what I kept to myself would be snide and snark.


You are trying to get me to attack you. Not gonna happen. You want to think I'm blaming it all on you? Fine. Do that, but know that you are wrong every time you do so. You want a forum for serious discussion with no asshattery?

I wonder how hard it would be to make rules (http://www.brunchma.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6003) for such a thing. If you check that link, I invite you to poke around that forum, specifically for something of mine, to see what kind of BS doesn't fly at all around there. All you need is a staff present and willing to enforce rules.

[Marblehead]

I am sick of the slew of cliques on this site who seem to think that they are the cock of the walk, and back each other up as if this is some sort of 4th grade fight on the playground after school.

How do you think the world works? How do you think politics work? Isn't politics the art of compromise? People with like opinions band together to form groups to progress their agenda. People kill each other to see their agenda succeed.

The U.S. is a clique with a common agenda that thinks they're the cock of the walk, and back each other up as if this is some sort of 4th grade fight on the playground after school.

[Snake eyeS]

What bothers me is that the names dont get called out, if you want a post confronting the people you feel are guilty of the behaviour your described, just give us names. that would make then rethink their doing and would get this discussion way more out in the open then screaming around saying you dislike "certain" people for doing things you think is wrong. how is this issue to be ever solved if you dont take it to the next step? its one thing that PLF responds, but what if he didnt? your complain would not get worked on. you need to communicate with the persons if you want to succesfully get this issue of your chest, on a forum that is best done by using PM or just saying their names.. with not saying any names, you make alot of people wonder if your talking about them. bieng vague about this is pretty annoying, sorry.

Who are you adressing besides PLF?

[JudoPorkChop]

The identities do not matter. I've said it before, that this topic was a public call to the mod staff to wake up, look around, and do what they were chosen to do. That said, all you need do is to look around, to see who I'm referencing. I'm not pointing fingers here, unless it's a mod, and even then, it's through PM.

Can we get back to attempting to get MRirian to frolic around slathered in some kind of pancake topping? That's a much better goal.

[koku]

The prom thread wasn't actually ridicule, it was me saying,

"Let's forget all the arguements we've been through and join me in some harmless silly banther."

Sorry if you took it the wrong way Pieirro or Judo.

[Citizen]

How is "This thread is slathered in idiocy" a positive thing?[/COLOR]

Because it contains the word 'slathered'. There really is no going wrong with that.

[Jay]

How does one slather idiocy?

[koku]

How does one slather idiocy?


magic.


lots and lots of magic.

[Citizen]

Magic is lame. You just have to make sure that the knife is hot.

[JudoPorkChop]

Remember, idiocy= Maple syrup.

Use your imagination.

But, using hot knives isn't going to make the task of getting hot women to slather themselves in something any easier, you know.

[Citizen]

It will if they don't want to be stabbed. :(

[koku]

It will if they don't want to be stabbed. :(


I want to report this comment to a MOD/Admin. What do I do?

[Citizen]

I want to report this comment to a MOD/Admin. What do I do?

I dunno. Ask Mr. Owl.

[Jay]

O.O <-- "hoot"

[JudoPorkChop]

Yay! Thread Derail complete!

Apparently, I can't pull it off, so Jay, mind summoning hawt chixx0rz to slather in idiocy or maple syrup?

[Jay]

Coming right up!

[Shamu]

Did someone call me? I heard you were in need of a hot chick. Sorry, all the other girls are busy right now, so you'll have to settle for me ;)
And by the way, almost everyone can be a hypocrite at some point. It's just a matter of admitting it. And no, I didn't read the entire thread, I just felt like saying that.

[Jay]

See? No problem. *cracks knuckles*

[JudoPorkChop]

*slathers Shamu in idiocy and maple syrup*

[Jay]

*slathers Shamu in idiocy and maple syrup*

Hey, you only asked me to summon her up. You didn't ask me to summon her up so you could slather her in idiocy and maple syrup!

[JudoPorkChop]

Well, you should have been able to tell.

See where I originally made a call for women to slather? She was on the short list.

And I must pause to note that yes, I am aware that the topic had serious intent when it was posted. However, the purpose has been served, and to prevent any further people from popping in and complaining about me being vague, I am now slathering the forum's hottest women in idiocy and maple syrup. So there you have it.

[Jay]

Ah, I see now. *opens eyes* My mistake.

[Monkey]

It's soo much easier to destroy a persons reputation than destroy their arguments, that's why there is so much hypocrisy. Ultimately everyone takes the easy way out.

[hanacker]

Was hypocrisy purposefully mispelled in the thread title as some kind of act of defiance against the "elitists"?

[JudoPorkChop]

Uh... Yeah.

Fight the power. Damn the spellcheck!

[Citizen]

I used to spell it wrong as well. Oh well.

[ruaidhri]

What is an elitist?

What is a populist?

I enjoy reading well thought out, organized and written posts. They are easier to understand better expressing the viewpoint of the writer. If the sole criteria for elitism is the ability to write coherently then OP9 is already a forum of elitists. I do not believe that intelligence is at all lacking on OP9. It’s simply a matter of choice. When called upon posters of all ages and levels of formal education have risen to show that they can when they so choose organize their thoughts and write meaningful comments.

What is a populist? It sure sounds good. By definition it’s a person that appeal to the “common” man and woman by espousing common sense and social and economic fairness. But, it’s not all good. Oftentimes populists employ an us and them mentality that only serves to further exasperate the differences and dislikes one group has for another. By claiming to be the “champion” of the people the populist demonizes their perceived elitist enemy and elevates their own status as the voice or protector of the people.

Now, I can’t honestly think of a single person on OP9 that I don’t like. If this thread is a manifestation of a disagreement between Pierrot Le Fou and JudoPorkChop, I must admit I like both of them. I enjoy their intelligence and their silliness. Actually, they are both elitists if one only considers the ability to communicate. Neither are populists. They don’t have the following or the galvanizing issue.

What started the apparent dislike between these two fine members of OP9? Perhaps it was Pierrot’s call for a new forum for serious threads. Personally, I believe that would be a good move because the serious, oftentimes political, threads are quickly lost in the fast moving General Discussion Forum. Creating such a forum would be serving a sizable number of members interested in those threads without adversely impacting anyone that chooses to remain in the General Discussion Forum. Hopefully, it would end this flame war.

JudoPorkChop’s signature quotes cnagy who wrote “I believe that anyone who dismisses someone else's opinions on the grounds that the person doesn't agree with them has a inferiority complex.” I believe that calling someone stupid or an elitist is simply another way of dismissing someone else’s opinions. We don’t need to build ourselves up by putting someone else down.

So, damn it, kiss and make up!

[JudoPorkChop]

Eww! No!

He hasn't brushed his teeth yet!

And besides, He's like a guy, and stuff.

And no, this was not specifically aimed at him, no matter what he might say.

[hapacheese]

Why?


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/hapaklay/obvious.jpg

(Sorry. Been waiting for an excuse to use that picture.)

[hapacheese]

There's actually a really, REALLY good chicken and waffles place near where I live. And thanks to this thread, I really want a nice, fluffy waffle drenched in butter and syrup.

[hapacheese]

O_O!!!

You've never had chicken and waffles??

It's basically fried chicken on one dish and big, fluffy waffles on another. Well, you can get just the chicken or the waffles if you want, but you can get 'em together, as well. Good stuff. Eat enough and you'll guarantee yourself a heart attack, though.

But this place... the Merritt Bakery in Oakland... man. They have some of the best waffles. It's an old school style diner where everyone goes on Sunday morning after Church in their Sunday best for brunch. The service is great, the coffee is good, and the portions are big.

Man... I'm REALLY hungry now.

[echomancer]

naked + cooking = pain

it's one equation I live by.

[PopCulturePooka]

I have oil burns on my chest from the other night.

PAIN!

[hapacheese]

That's what aprons are for. Madness!!! :D

[PopCulturePooka]

Haha we don't have 'aprons' in my house.

[PopCulturePooka]

Because I can't find one with large novelty boobs. :(

[Myrsilus]

Because I can't find one with large novelty boobs. :(
Ain't it the truth?

I don't wear an apron, even if I should. None with enough manliness for moi. >.>

[akitaka]

Same.
A lot of times I'll even cook without a shirt (only for myself), just to avoid dirtying it up.

Hot oil = loses to my chest :)

[bUs]

Dammit. Does that mean I'm not allowed to conquer the world anymore?

Well fine I just won't do it from this forum then.


*watch out for this space!*
*meaningful and sensible message coming soon!*


I'm still new to this forum... so once again.. Hi. :D

[DarkFire168]

Aprons don't help, I was cooking a pot roast the other day and oil splattered out onto my wrist and burned me. >.<