Nine Planets? More Like Eight.

[Saitou Hajime]

So, Pluto's been stripped of it's planetary status. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5282440.stm) There are now eight planets and three dwarf planets. Get out those text books and white out, kiddies!

[Xuande]

Going by how often science textbooks are updated here in the American South, there'll still be 9 planets in Dixie until the 2050s or so.

[Mechs]

:eyepop: Pluto isn't a planet anymore.

[Jeth]

Isn't a "dwarf planet" still a planet...? Anyways, I'm pissed. It's my favorite planet, man.

[Plekto]

Well, the part is that there are small planetoids(better name, IMO) on the order of possibly hundreds out at the fringes of the system. It also MIGHT be that the new object out there will be classified someday as a planet instead, if it is determined that it follows a proper orbit - since it is bigger than Pluto.

[ShadowDeth]

It's about time. And they are obviously making room for planet-x.

All hail planet-x, harbinger of doom and cleanser of the impure. I hereby recognize Ghidorah as the true ruler of earth planet.

[Stephy]

Well, this was unexpected. In my heart, Pluto will always be that cold little planet!

[RotoruaBoy]

the planet that got away

wonder who would pluto turn to if it wanted to complain, the sun?

pluto: size doesn't matter *sobs*

[Jetsetlemming]

I find it interesting it was actually degraded because it doesn't have a normal orbit like all the other planets. Instead, it's is elliptical, and crosses Neptune's path every once in a while.

[Tibs]

I swear to god I so thought this thread was gonna be about pluto getting obliterated by a comet or something.

Imagine my disappointment.

[Plekto]

What prompted it was that three years ago they found an object that was several hundred miles bigger out beyond Pluto's orbit. But it also had a very non-standard orbit.

The outer solar system appears to be comprised of literally hundreds of thousands to millions of asteroid to moon sized objects - and then there's the Oort cloud beyond that - with potentiually a billion or more comets and ice chunks and debris.

So they made a decision - it has to be an obvious part of the normal accretion disc from when the other planets were formed(ie - orbit in the same main plane as the other planets)

[Josh]

Yeah... they announced this a long time ago lol.

[haterllnation]

My Very Educated Mother Just Sold Us New....New..... *sigh*

[Kass]

Yeah... they announced this a long time ago lol.

Actually, they announced the official declaration yesterday, but there has been a movement in the scientific commnunity to demote Pluto for quite a while. I heard a NASA scientist speak last summer and he made the same observation about the Oort cloud, etc.

The decision wasn't made until yesterday though.

[ellie]

There was a lot of uproar in the geological community recently, regarding the loss of Pluto as a planet. Apparently, a group of astronomers wanted to honor the memory of Pluto as a planet and rename all of the dwarf planets as "plutons." However, "pluton" refers to "an intrusive igneous rock body which crystallized from a magma below the surface of the Earth. Plutons include batholiths, dikes, sills, laccoliths, lopoliths, and other igneous bodies." Geologers were outraged that a common term for them was going to be reused as a term for a big, icy ball floating around in the sky. They said, "Renaming those asteroids as 'plutons' is the same thing as if a botanist discovered something half-way between a tree and a bush and decided to call it an 'animal'."

"Dwarf Planets" sounds like a lot better term, to me.

[I Like Shinny!]

It will take years for American schools to update there books. Those poor bastards who will never know that Pluto isn't a planet.

Why are American schools so crappy? :(

[Kass]

Crappy? Do you know how much those books cost? Replacing the science books in one school district alone will cost millions of dollars. These aren't $5.95 paperbacks you can buy off the rack. These textbooks run minimum $50-$100 (depending on academic level--elemetary, middle or high school) a piece.

Most, if not all, school districts just don't have an extra $10-12 million lying around to run out and buy all new books, especially not when five sentences in class can explain it and a decent teacher can make an entire lesson about how scientific classifications can change with new technology and new discoveries.

Purchasing all new science books means not purchasing some other needed book, resource or equipment for students. What do you propose they cut in favor of the science books? History books? Computers? Thirty teachers?

Now, if you have an extra $10 million dollars lying around, I'm sure any number of school districts would be happy to take it for the purchase of new science books.

[trckstr]

well said kass.


It will take years for American schools to update there books. Those poor bastards who will never know that Pluto isn't a planet.

Why are American schools so crappy? :(

you act as if only American schools won't update their textbooks to change the status of pluto to dwarf planet anytime soon. EVERY public school system in the world that supplies textbooks to their students will find it tough to justify the cost replacing all their textbooks for such a small correction. it's not as if the kids won't be taught that there are only 8 official planets if it's not in the textbooks. after all this media hoopla about the status of Pluto, you'd be hard pressed to find a science teacher that hasn't heard of the change. it's one thing to point out the shortcomings of the US education system. it's quite another to attack it when it's undeserved.

[Citizen]

George W. Bush was the president when I was in high school. My book said Reagan was. Didn't confuse me. And if it did, the teacher could have taken thirty seconds to explain it to me.

Buying new science books just because of something like this would be a complete waste of money, even if the school districts actually did have the money to do it.

Anyways, I'm glad there's finally a decent definition of what a planet is. It kinda sucks that Pluto didn't make the cut and ended up as a 'dwarf planet', instead of a 'classical planet', but oh well. Not like it really changes anything. Having a decent definition to use in the future is more important than Pluto being a planet.

[Masa the Masta]

George W. Bush was the president when I was in high school. My book said Reagan was. Didn't confuse me. And if it did, the teacher could have taken thirty seconds to explain it to me.

Well said. Who's the bigger idiot then, the country that can't buy new books which have up to date information, or the country that relies on the information from the book as unquestionable truth, regardless of what it is? :watson:

[Matt W]

I think in fairness, the poster did not mean that school districts should buy new books simply because of pluto's change in classification, but that in general schools in America are underfunded and as a result, don't update their books very often, leaving kids with outdated and second class learning materials.

[Fred]

There were two things that struck me as funny/odd.

One: The chair of the International Astronomical Union talked about needing to describe the Solar System as it really is and not as people would like it to be. However, the decision of what should or should not be included in the definition of a planet is arbitrary. The new definition may be more useful and pertinent than the old one, but that does not make it any less arbitrary.

Two: I wondered if this organization really had the credentials to make such a change. If they do not, then they are being pretentious in their sincerity, which I find amusing. However, I do not know anything about astronomy and so I do not know anything about the professional organizations associated with astronomy. This organization is called the International Astronomical Union, which suggests that it has international support. For all I know, maybe they truly do represent a wide-spread, international, academic community and maybe they do have the credentials to change these basic definitions.

[ellie]

I think in fairness, the poster did not mean that school districts should buy new books simply because of pluto's change in classification, but that in general schools in America are underfunded and as a result, don't update their books very often, leaving kids with outdated and second class learning materials.

Schools in America actually AREN'T generally underfunded. There are national laws protecting against underfunding, although certain programs in schools may be cut to provide funding for more educational purposes. Almost all states require for all districts to provide the same PPE (per-pupil expenditures) for all school districts. This means that within a state, all the schools should operate on the same funcional level. Obviously, that isn't the case--private funding can increase the money flow into a school; also, in dangerous, urban areas, it is difficult to keep teachers, especially if they are being paid the same low rates that teachers around the state are.

America does NOT have a poor education system; it's different than most of the world, however. Most other countries require early specialization, while in the USA it doesn't occur until college or even graduate school. American students generally take a wide variety of courses in high school and even in college, while other countries the students generally focus in a single area, such as math, english, science, etc, while only taking limited courses in other subjects. Neither of these methods are "wrong" for learning, but American students generally have a wide variety of knowledge but don't know details about it, while other students often know very intense details about just a few subjects.

Please don't say America has a poor public school system, that's not true. 90% of people asked will tell you that the school that they went to was great & the school that their children go to is great, but they believe that the country as a whole has a bad public school system.

(This I all learned in my Education 441 course last semester. Best class I've ever taken.)

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

The only books that try to keep as current as possible is College books. The most current history book and American Democracy book I have is late 2004 and early 2006.

Seriously, my American Democracy book talks about current outsourcing problems.

[Josh]

Actually, they announced the official declaration yesterday, but there has been a movement in the scientific commnunity to demote Pluto for quite a while. I heard a NASA scientist speak last summer and he made the same observation about the Oort cloud, etc.

The decision wasn't made until yesterday though.

My bad then. Yeah, the scientist from last summer is probably where I got it from. Thanks for the correction. :hat:

But about the book thing, my county updates Science books every 4 years and the subjects that dont change so much every 6 or so. We seem to keep up pretty well in my opinion. :)

[Radiance]

It has been a bad week for Pluto, first Disney's Pluto will no longer have a name and never be featured in anything again and now this. :O

[I Like Shinny!]

I think in fairness, the poster did not mean that school districts should buy new books simply because of pluto's change in classification, but that in general schools in America are underfunded and as a result, don't update their books very often, leaving kids with outdated and second class learning materials.
Bingo! Finally someone who can understand my cryptic messages. :clap:

Pluto will remain a planet until Philadelphia school district gets a new president.

[Matt W]

Schools in America actually AREN'T generally underfunded. There are national laws protecting against underfunding, although certain programs in schools may be cut to provide funding for more educational purposes. Almost all states require for all districts to provide the same PPE (per-pupil expenditures) for all school districts. This means that within a state, all the schools should operate on the same funcional level. Obviously, that isn't the case--private funding can increase the money flow into a school; also, in dangerous, urban areas, it is difficult to keep teachers, especially if they are being paid the same low rates that teachers around the state are.


While I'm no expert on the subject, I'll try to respond.
First off, depending on the state you live in, the amount of funds your school has per pupil varies greatly.
edit: go to this site, like 3/4 down the page for the graph, its much easier to read
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/c8/c8.cfm?opt=1&selected=yes&action=map&colname=810
Current expenditures per pupil for elementary and secondary public schools: 2003*
1st Quartile 2nd Quartile 3rd Quartile 4th Quartile
($12,568 ($8,985- ($7,552– ($6,562–
–$8,997) $7,574) $6,661) 4,838)
Alaska Georgia California Alabama
Connecticut Hawaii Colorado Arizona
Delaware Illinois Kansas Arkansas
D.C. Indiana Kentucky Florida
Maine Iowa Louisiana Idaho
Maryland Michigan Missouri Mississippi
Massachusetts Minnesota Montana Nevada
New Jersey Nebraska New Mexico North Carolina
New York New Hampshire North Dakota Oklahoma
Pennsylvania Ohio Oregon South Dakota
Rhode Island Virginia South Carolina Tennessee
Vermont West Virginia Texas Utah
Wisconsin Wyoming Washington

*States in alphabetical order, not data order.

SOURCES: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, NCES Common Core of Data, State Nonfiscal Survey of Public Elementary/Secondary Education and National Public Education Financial Survey.

Those are pretty big differences in levels of funding I think you'd agree.
Then, inside states, isn't it that the state funding is the same, but that local funding is different. Like, richer districts get more property taxes and other taxes that they then use to fund schools? There might be rules saying it can't be too large a difference, but I'm pretty sure they fund more than poorer districts. I mean, I'm sure you've seen the picture of inner city schools where the basic infrastructure is falling apart. Correct me if I'm wrong on this stuff.

America does NOT have a poor education system; it's different than most of the world, however. Most other countries require early specialization, while in the USA it doesn't occur until college or even graduate school. American students generally take a wide variety of courses in high school and even in college, while other countries the students generally focus in a single area, such as math, english, science, etc, while only taking limited courses in other subjects. Neither of these methods are "wrong" for learning, but American students generally have a wide variety of knowledge but don't know details about it, while other students often know very intense details about just a few subjects.

Please don't say America has a poor public school system, that's not true. 90% of people asked will tell you that the school that they went to was great & the school that their children go to is great, but they believe that the country as a whole has a bad public school system.

I have nothing against taking a wide variety of courses, I think that's a good thing. And my high school was very good, but I also know that it was ranked one of the top 100 public high schools in the U.S., and that not everyone is so fortunate.

[Jetsetlemming]

IN private schools, the average level of education for the students is much higher, dispire much less money being spent per student to teach them. The school funding has little to do with the education quality.

[Matt W]

Private schools are private, they don't teach everybody, not everybody can go there. Public schools have to spend tons of money teaching physically and mentally handicapped kids. They teach poor children, and children whose parents don't speak English. Public schools teach the difficult cases and have to spend large amounts doing it. Private schools teach the rich and privileged, of course its not going to take as much money per kid, that doesn't mean school funding has little to do with education quality.

[Jetsetlemming]

There are plenty of poor families that scrouge up the cash for private school tuition and cut back on everything else to make sure their children are taught right. Almost everyone I know went to catholic school, and I live in a VERY poor area. The schools really are spending less per student and teaching them better. The class sizes are much larger, the equiptment is older, and there's free/reduced lunch program. The teachers make half the salary a public school teacher makes, but they stay much longer at the job anyway. It's not that the school has less overhead because of the lack of handicapped students either, because they go to private schools, too.
Anyway, before a stupid argument starts, I'll say this: What are you guys talking about, no one will know because the textbooks won't be updated? They have teachers who can speak about stuff outside the books, you know. :P

[ellie]

I don't like people saying that American schools suck and that American's are stupid. Our president is a poor person to have leading our country, because he makes the entire country look stupid & bad. :(

I'm sure teachers, regardless of how 'good' a school it is, will all have enough brains to teach their students that Pluto is not a planet, but ahhh back in the day it used to be considered one.

It is sad to me that Pluto is no longer considered to be a planet, I was so used to it being there!

[Digital Masta]

I never liked Pluto anyway.

[ShadowDeth]

I don't like people saying that American schools suck and that American's are stupid. Our president is a poor person to have leading our country, because he makes the entire country look stupid & bad. :(


Correction, people as a whole are stupid. Americans are just egocentric when it comes to current events and other countries. Your average dolt in finland is just as stupid as the one in mexico, or japan, or africa, russia, Kentucky and so forth.

But make no mistake, americans are pretty stupid.

[Josh]

Yeah, that stuff kinda happens when you ride the waves of previous generations.

[Citizen]

This thread has long since gone off topic.

Locked for being full of spam, off-topic posts and pseudo-political gems, such as ellie's last post.