China REALLY hates dogs

[jindojim]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14139027/


SHANGHAI, China - China slaughtered 50,000 dogs in a government-ordered crackdown after three people died of rabies, sparking unusually pointed criticism in state media Tuesday and an outcry from animal rights activists.

Health experts said the brutal policy pointed to deep weaknesses in the health care infrastructure in China, where only 3 percent of dogs are vaccinated against rabies and more than 2,000 people die of the disease each year.

The five-day slaughter in Mouding county in Yunnan province in southwestern China ended Sunday and spared only military guard dogs and police canine units, state media reported.

Dogs being walked were seized from their owners and beaten to death on the spot, the Shanghai Daily newspaper reported. Led by the county police chief, killing teams entered villages at night creating noise to get dogs barking, then beat the animals to death, the reports said.

Owners were offered 63 cents per animal to kill their own dogs before the teams were sent in, they said.

Wow...I'm pretty torn between supporting their actions to help save human lives and outrage as a dog owner. Was killing these dogs really necessary?

I guess they could have at least killed them humanely...

[Kwiz]

You could say it was necessary, but steps should have been taken before.. killing fifty thousand dogs, and beating them to death no less. It's absolutely sick.

[Hatsumomo]

Fuck humans. It's not that easy to get rabies and only three people got the disease, which tells me that those three people are just dumb fucks who probably pissed off an infected dog.

And if China doesn't have the vaccination for humans, then that's their problem. Anybody ever touches my dog, I would kill them. No ifs, ands, or buts. I would kill you.

[sushi]

That is really cruel and a bit drastic for 3 cases of rabies.

And if China doesn't have the vaccination for humans, then that's their problem.

I'm also surprised they don't have the vaccination for rabies!

[smokingmonkee]

I don't agree with the methods but human lives are more important.

[Candyvan Stan]

I don't agree with the methods but human lives are more important.


Why ?

[DizBukHaPeter]

Because dogs are less useful than humans, in China they're only good for meat, you cant make a dog work in the sweatshops. Why waste money on vaccines when a stick is just as good. I think this is a good idea because China has poor Sanitation and living conditions.

[RotoruaBoy]

thats just the way things work there,in rural areas (pretty much half of china), people can’t afford to have their pets vaccinated, and the poisonous injection used in developed countries cost even more than the vaccine, killing them with blades will risk infecting the butcher, beat them up is the only affordable way in those areas. If its in the big metropolitan districts, hell, the pets have much higher living standard than most Chinese villagers do. 50,000 is only an estimate, this sort of things happen all the time and has been going on for ages. To the Chinese government, animal protection only applies to the endangered species like tigers. Domestic animals is not on the agenda, issues like reducing poverty and bring drinkable water to rural areas take much higher priority.

The government is not in this alone, the villagers that keep the dogs in the first place were aware of the risks, yet they still decided to keep them.
Only if those so called animal rights activist would stop mocking and start doing something, things would have been in better shape.

[trckstr]

Actually China had 2,651 reported cases of deaths (which is probably understated coming from Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention) from rabies in 2004. And while the chance of contracting rabies is pretty slim, it's extremely serious if you don't get treated right away. Death almost invariably results 2–10 days after the first symptoms, and the handful of people who are known to have survived the disease were all left with severe brain damage. I believe what sparked this recent slaughter of dogs is that one of the 3 people who died this year in the Yunnan province was a 4 year old girl.

[mawande]

It's sad, but understandable. Note it's the officials who did this. Most of the actual pet owners didn't. There might even have been a few cases of people getting hurt trying to protect their pets.

In Japan, I believe like in the U.S., dogs are to be vaccinated every year. I registered my dog with my city, and they send me a notice each year to remind me to get the rabies vaccination. They even have a set-up where we can go in at a specific place.

[King Kong]

Considering that the Chinese people eat dogs, Im not suprised that they treat dogs in this manner.

[I Like Shinny!]

Wow, talk about over reacting. What will the Chinese people eat for dinner now?

[smokingmonkee]

Wow, talk about over reacting. What will the Chinese people eat for dinner now?

The unwanted children??

[I Like Shinny!]

The unwanted children??
Nah, they throw baby girls into the ocean.

[Angelyne]

The Chinese government has done much worse things than kill a bunch of dogs.

[Druid]

We need some idiots to be killed every now and then. Tis natural selection. And yes, China does do many a thing worse than killing dogs.

[h2orowe]

I don't see why they couldn't have just shipped the dogs somewhere else.. like a few different countries with the tools to fix them.
It's sick that they just beat them IN FRONT of the owners. Could you imagine walking your dog with your 3 year old child, and having the dog's skull crushed in right in front of the two of you?

[Druid]

[QUOTE=h2orowe]I don't see why they couldn't have just shipped the dogs somewhere else..QUOTE]
They are going to ship them somewhere else. North Korea.

:joytear: :rofl:

[RotoruaBoy]

I don't see why they couldn't have just shipped the dogs somewhere else.. like a few different countries with the tools to fix them.
It's sick that they just beat them IN FRONT of the owners. Could you imagine walking your dog with your 3 year old child, and having the dog's skull crushed in right in front of the two of you?
if they had that kinda resource to ship dogs, they can vaccinate them in the first place...

getting their dogs beat up in front of them is not their biggest concern in life, if you are struggling to feed your family, you wouldn't worry about that either. or even worse. it is better for them to get their dogs brutally killed than having the government put a bigass fine on them.

Government: our target is for every chinese family to own their private jet by the end of 2050.
Press: what do they need private jets for if they can't own their house?
Government: so they can come to receive communism brainwashing faster.
Press: but some of them are starving, they havn't had any rice for weeks
h2orowe: why don't they have cake then?

[D-pad]

Fuck humans. It's not that easy to get rabies and only three people got the disease, which tells me that those three people are just dumb fucks who probably pissed off an infected dog.

And if China doesn't have the vaccination for humans, then that's their problem. Anybody ever touches my dog, I would kill them. No ifs, ands, or buts. I would kill you.
Fuckin-A dude.

[jindojim]

Whoa whoa, hold on. Before you jump to the conclusion that there were ONLY 3 deaths due to rabies, I think you guys should prob click on the link and read the rest of the article...

In the last year data was available (2004), it was more like 2651 deaths due to rabies.

[PopCulturePooka]

2,000 people die a year from rabies?

Dogs are more tools used for farming life, not 'pets'?

A rabies vaccine would cost a few months of wage?

So would lethal injection?

Hmmm, harsh, but it looked like there wasn't much better solution.

[Stephy]

Couldn't there have been a different way? Any way? Oh my goodness, it is so horrible.

Really has really me crying a lot right now. Of course I feel extremely sad over the losses of people due to rabies, but 50,000? Beaten.

So horrible.

I can't stop crying.

[h2orowe]

if they had that kinda resource to ship dogs, they can vaccinate them in the first place...

getting their dogs beat up in front of them is not their biggest concern in life, if you are struggling to feed your family, you wouldn't worry about that either. or even worse. it is better for them to get their dogs brutally killed than having the government put a bigass fine on them.

Government: our target is for every chinese family to own their private jet by the end of 2050.
Press: what do they need private jets for if they can't own their house?
Government: so they can come to receive communism brainwashing faster.
Press: but some of them are starving, they havn't had any rice for weeks
h2orowe: why don't they have cake then?
I'm sorry, I don't exactly know how China works. -_-; I'm 16 years old and American. I just don't see why they could've at least saved some of the dogs by having the government shipping them on a boat somewhere else.

Is it easy to find out which dogs have rabies by opening them up or something? Can you tell by inside a dog? (I honestly don't know how you tell animals have rabies. I just know they go rabid... yeah the name.) Because they could've at least let the people eat the dogs, instead of just beating them to death and wasting pets/tools/food.

[PopCulturePooka]

I just don't see why they could've at least saved some of the dogs by having the government shipping them on a boat somewhere else.[quote]Where do you ship them?
Who pays?
How long do you ship them away for?
What if some in the shipped population have rabies?

[QUOTE]Is it easy to find out which dogs have rabies by opening them up or something? It can be pretty ahrd to spot until near the end of the disease. Like chickenpox. You are contagious before you actually KNOW you have it.

Because they could've at least let the people eat the dogs, instead of just beating them to death and wasting pets/tools/food.And if these people ate meat of dogs infected with rabies? Or worms? Or blood parasites?

[Kwiz]

Couldn't there have been a different way? Any way? Oh my goodness, it is so horrible.

It is indeed horrible, but that can also be said for a lot of aspects of rural Chinese life. It seems there was no other way. Existence goes on.

[PopCulturePooka]

And 50,000...
They cant all have been domestic or working. Many would have been homeless or feral, which in areas like that can be terrible spreaders and vectors of disease.

[h2orowe]

[QUOTE=h2orowe]I just don't see why they could've at least saved some of the dogs by having the government shipping them on a boat somewhere else.[quote]Where do you ship them?
Who pays?
How long do you ship them away for?
What if some in the shipped population have rabies?
Umm, they could've shipped a few to countries that are well off that don't have high dog populations?
I know, because I've seen them on TV quite a bit, that there are agencies in the US that are for like.. dog adoption. "Adopt this dog, little cute Joey puppy has come from a horrible home where he was neglected and rarely fed, blah blah, save this dog today" Something to that extent, then people actually adopt the dogs.
Why not combine third world adoption with dog adoption?

[D-pad]

50,000 dogs, 2000 rabies. Not worth it.

[Kwiz]

Why not combine third world adoption with dog adoption?

That is a really wonderful idea, but other efforts do take priority over saving those not-so-well-off dogs. Sometimes you have to accept that thousands of cute pups will die.

[RandomPasserby]

H2rowe, They couldn't ship the dogs out of China because it costs more than the vaccination for the dog. One dog takes same amount of room as about 20 boxes of 100 dollar nike basketball shoes for example to ship from China to USA. http://www.next2kin.org/shotbased.htm tells us that rabies vaccine cost 61 cents per shot.

And even though you are clearly just acting stupid, same people who keep dogs as pets don't usually eat them (popularity of owning pets has started to push dog eating into non-existence) and also the dogs that are eaten are usually special breeds meant to be eaten (predators usually don't taste as good as non-predators).

[h2orowe]

And even though you are clearly just acting stupid, same people who keep dogs as pets don't usually eat them (popularity of owning pets has started to push dog eating into non-existence) and also the dogs that are eaten are usually special breeds meant to be eaten (predators usually don't taste as good as non-predators).
Umm, I'm not acting stupid. I'm just not informed on this very well. I figured if they're so poor and in need of food, why not just eat the dogs instead of beating the shit out of them?

[Angelyne]

Shipping the dogs elsewhere is logistically impossible.

Countries have very strict quarantine laws. When my neighbors moved to Hawaii, they were legally required to put their family dog in quarantine for seven months, and pay extensive room and board costs for the dog. The wait can be even worse, if not impossible, if you're moving overseas.

Now imagine trying to capture 50,000 dogs, ship them from rural China (where there are still villages that don't even have paved roads), and then trying to house and care for them for X number of months. Faced with this situation, even Western governments would likely exterminate them, and I doubt even PETA would have the funds to support such a massive operation.

And if a rural villager is only making $5 a month (and this is a liberal estimate), a 61 cent rabbies vaccine is an extravagant, unnecessary cost. And that's assuming that the vaccine is even available in those areas.

[h2orowe]

Shipping the dogs elsewhere is logistically impossible.

Countries have very strict quarantine laws. When my neighbors moved to Hawaii, they were legally required to put their family dog in quarantine for seven months, and pay extensive room and board costs for the dog. The wait can be even worse, if not impossible, if you're moving overseas.

Now imagine trying to capture 50,000 dogs, ship them from rural China (where there are still villages that don't even have paved roads), and then trying to house and care for them for X number of months. Faced with this situation, even Western governments would likely exterminate them, and I doubt even PETA would have the funds to support such a massive operation.
Well if someone would've explained how it was like that from the beginning >_>; I would've understood. Thank you.

And if a rural villager is only making $5 a month (and this is a liberal estimate), a 61 cent rabbies vaccine is an extravagant, unnecessary cost. And that's assuming that the vaccine is even available in those areas.
5$ a month.. o.o I make 10$ a week by feeding the dog and taking out the trash >_>; What kind of sick injustice is this?

[RandomPasserby]

Umm, I'm not acting stupid. I'm just not informed on this very well. I figured if they're so poor and in need of food, why not just eat the dogs instead of beating the shit out of them?
Uhhh, where was it said that they are starving to death or similar? And anyway, like I said, pet dogs and eatable dogs diffenrent kind and chinese aren't that different from other people that they would eat their pets because goverment wants to kill the pets.

[PopCulturePooka]

And they have quarantine for a reason.

Even if these dogs dont have rabies, they may well be carrying all manner of other types of disease, pest and parasite.

[seiji]

http://www.next2kin.org/shotbased.htm tells us that rabies vaccine cost 61 cents per shot.
Owners were offered 63 cents per animal to kill their own dogs before the teams were sent in, they said.
:watson: .

[Angelyne]

5$ a month.. o.o I make 10$ a week by feeding the dog and taking out the trash >_>; What kind of sick injustice is this?

I had to read a really good article published in the late 1990s about a rural Chinese farmer who went to Beijing looking for work. Basically rural workers are treated much in the same manner illegal immigrants are treated in America--they do hard, nasty work for low pay. The farmer only made about $15 American dollars a month, but he continued to stick with it because his entire family only made $3 a month back in the village. When he went back to visit them, everyone thought he was extremely rich.

It's actually a rather big problem in China. While the east coast is growing rich (Shanghai, Beijing, etc.), the rural areas can't keep up and end growing even poorer. Some remote areas out in the western desert areas just recently got electricity. A lot of rural people don't get any health care because they can't afford it, can't access it, or the doctors in the village are incompetent quacks. This is why a simple problem like rabies outbreak can cause all sorts of serious trouble for the human population in these areas.

[dzee]

with absolutely no sarcasm, this is one of the best threads i've read so far (yes, i haven't been reading a lot, admittedly). :clap: and ironically, about dogs.

i don't agree with the way china's treated the canines, but it might have really been one of the most efficient methods, given that it's china and it also concerns their rural areas. i do hope the deaths were brought about as quick as possible, though. :meh: wonder if they could have tried shooting..?

[h2orowe]

Uhhh, where was it said that they are starving to death or similar? And anyway, like I said, pet dogs and eatable dogs diffenrent kind and chinese aren't that different from other people that they would eat their pets because goverment wants to kill the pets.
Dude, if they couldn't afford a 61 c shot, they could've eaten the dog, and then kept the money they would've spent on chicken/whatever to get something else. Maybe a new tool or something to help farm.

I had to read a really good article published in the late 1990s about a rural Chinese farmer who went to Beijing looking for work. Basically rural workers are treated much in the same manner illegal immigrants are treated in America--they do hard, nasty work for low pay. The farmer only made about $15 American dollars a month, but he continued to stick with it because his entire family only made $3 a month back in the village. When he went back to visit them, everyone thought he was extremely rich.

It's actually a rather big problem in China. While the east coast is growing rich (Shanghai, Beijing, etc.), the rural areas can't keep up and end growing even poorer. Some remote areas out in the western desert areas just recently got electricity. A lot of rural people don't get any health care because they can't afford it, can't access it, or the doctors in the village are incompetent quacks. This is why a simple problem like rabies outbreak can cause all sorts of serious trouble for the human population in these areas.
If they can't afford health care, they could've eaten their dogs, and spent THAT money on health care. 8D But who knows how much health care costs out there. Just trying to throw out WHY they should eat the dog, RandomPasserby.

[japanat]

and I doubt even PETA would have the funds to support such a massive operation.

LOL. "According to PETA's own filings, in 2004 PETA killed 86.3 percent of the animals entrusted to its care -- a number that's rising, not falling. Meanwhile, the SPCA in PETA's home town (Norfolk, Va.) was able to find loving homes for 73 percent of the animals put in its care." http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ via
http://www.thisistrue.com/peta.html

You are definitely correct in saying that most countries would not receive these animals. Everyone fears rabies. Although I would wish that they'd do an Old Yeller and shoot the things...

[jindojim]

i do hope the deaths were brought about as quick as possible, though. :meh: wonder if they could have tried shooting..?

I'm really not trying to be inhumane with this comment, but...

Cost of one bullet: prob around 1 US dollar. Which adds up to 50,000 dollars.

Cost of beating the poor dog: free

I mean, the way they handled the problem was quite drastic, but the more I think about it, it seems like they didn't have much of a choice at that stage. Since it appears that dogs are major carriers of the disease over there, this slaughter was a desperate last measure to stop the outbreak of rabies among humans, due to China's insufficient means to deal with the disease.

What's funny is that when there was an outbreak of the avian flu and all those birds were killed, there wasn't quite as much of an outcry.

BTW:
Speaking of PETA, how bout their reacting to this incident by boycotting any Chinese product?

[RandomPasserby]

I'm really not trying to be inhumane with this comment, but...

Cost of one bullet: prob around 1 US dollar. Which adds up to 50,000 dollars.

Cost of beating the poor dog: free

I mean, the way they handled the problem was quite drastic, but the more I think about it, it seems like they didn't have much of a choice at that stage. Since it appears that dogs are major carriers of the disease over there, this slaughter was a desperate last measure to stop the outbreak of rabies among humans, due to China's insufficient means to deal with the disease.

What's funny is that when there was an outbreak of the avian flu and all those birds were killed, there wasn't quite as much of an outcry.

BTW:
Speaking of PETA, how bout their reacting to this incident by boycotting any Chinese product?
Tbh, considering that a rabies shot cost 61 cents in usa (and i bet it's cheaper in China) and they were offering 63 cents to anyone who kills their dog themselves, it sounds more like that some "man of the party" decided to show publically that he takes firm action against rabies. Arranging vaccinatino program isn't that visible you see.

[PopCulturePooka]

Hey who complained when China slaughtered 9,000,000 chickens in an outbreak of bird flu hysteria?

[DizBukHaPeter]

Apparently slaughtering is the poor man's disease control and quarantine all in one.

[Kwiz]

Hey who complained when China slaughtered 9,000,000 chickens in an outbreak of bird flu hysteria?

Not many. It's easy enough to understand that dogs carry more emotional and economic value than chickens.

[RandomPasserby]

Hey who complained when China slaughtered 9,000,000 chickens in an outbreak of bird flu hysteria?
Those who's pet chickens were beaten to death when they took the chickens out for a walk.

[CrazyAce86]

They could have done it more humanely, if nothing else. Hell, a well-placed shot in the head would have been quick and efficient without the dog suffering so much.

I'm not saying they should have even done that. Why didn't they just check the dogs to see if they had rabies? It would've taken five minutes. And good grief, if they want the vaccine, there's a dozen countries they could get it from easily.

It's just ridiculous. I'm sure they see it as a necessary evil, and on one hand I can understand it, but that's just stupid overall. So rabies killed 2,000+ a year-- fine, and I hate to sound cruel, but that's a drop in the bucket for China. They have more pressing issues to worry about, such as overpopulation and the mass killings of baby girls. (And yes, I know the government doesn't condone the latter, but it does happen often.)

This is as bad as the US and France squabbling over a race. Like there isn't more important issues to debate.

[trckstr]

This slaughter wasn't exactly sanctioned by the Chinese government. It actually turned out to be embarassing to them, that for all their propaganda and supposed control over the populace, they were unable to stem the tide of the slaughters. The killing of the dogs wasn't an organized effort, it was mobs of people terrified of getting rabies and striking out at what they perceive as the cause.

A lot of people bring up the question of putting down the dogs humanely by shooting them in the head. There are two problems with this. One, As jimmyjindo already said, bullets and guns cost money. Two, this is China not America. Do you really think the Chinese government allows guns and bullets to be sold to civilians? Nope.

As for checking the dogs for rabies... "The direct fluorescent antibody test (dFA) is the test most frequently used to diagnose rabies. This test requires brain tissue from animals suspected of being rabid. The test can only be performed post-mortem (after the animal is dead)." taken from the US CDC website. So much for that. Also, if you were a villager with the education level of an elementary school kid. How close would you want to get to an animal that can give you a fatal disease with one bite.

[D-pad]

Joey, you can not eat a dog with rabies. You will get them.

[h2orowe]

Joey, you can not eat a dog with rabies. You will get them.
Damn... >_>; I forgot about that.

[Hatsumomo]

LOL. "According to PETA's own filings, in 2004 PETA killed 86.3 percent of the animals entrusted to its care -- a number that's rising, not falling. Meanwhile, the SPCA in PETA's home town (Norfolk, Va.) was able to find loving homes for 73 percent of the animals put in its care." http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ via
http://www.thisistrue.com/peta.html

Thank you! I was just about to point that out.

Anyway, with China's overpopulation issues, why don't they just beat to death people with contagious diseases? You're more likely to catch something from another human than a dog. People are the last things the world needs.

When are people going to learn: "If you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet" and "Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

[RotoruaBoy]

I'm sorry, I don't exactly know how China works. -_-; I'm 16 years old and American. I just don't see why they could've at least saved some of the dogs by having the government shipping them on a boat somewhere else.

Is it easy to find out which dogs have rabies by opening them up or something? Can you tell by inside a dog? (I honestly don't know how you tell animals have rabies. I just know they go rabid... yeah the name.) Because they could've at least let the people eat the dogs, instead of just beating them to death and wasting pets/tools/food.
uhhhh naive teenagers *pats h2orowe with a pedophile smile*

it is not just the rabies vaccine that bothers animal owners the most, it's all other cost comes after it. in china, if you take your dog to the vet and have them vaccinated for rabies, the next time vaccines for other disease coming out the vet would tell you to go and get that one for your pet, and if you don't wanna spend that money, many vet would report this to the authorities, it is somewhat their ways of ensuring the income. in rural areas, veterinary facilities are state owned assets, which means you pet would be registered with the authorities if you take them there just for one treatment, only makes it easier for them to track the animal owners next time something like this happens. Plus, in those areas, the cost is very high just to get the vaccines there; sometimes it’s a choice of medicine for humans or medicine for animals.

Shooting them actually cause more trouble than anything, possession of firearms and munitions is a felony in china. The authorities don’t have the ability to manufacture the needed ammunition and firearms then to establish a taskforce specialize in dog shooting. In some areas the police force will agree to send some people to shoot the dogs but they don’t have the necessary munitions. Applying for extra ammunitions through their superiors take months of paperwork. Seeking aid from the military is out of the question, the military only answers to the central government, which also takes months of paperwork if the central government would want the military to aid local authorities in matters like this.

If there should be one thing to blame, let it be bureaucracy, provincial governments have certain tasks to achieve, and they let the local governments to improvise without organizing their activities or sending any aid. For the local authorities, asking for help is treated as being weak and incompetent, which would mean the end of their political career. Local villagers don’t receive the needed education to react in situations like this. Local authorities have no coordination with their operations. And the poverty just makes things worse. But are the local authorities the one to blame? After all they are not that well educated themselves, and the little funding they receive from treasury can barely cover local infrastructure.

However, if this were to happen in metropolitan areas, things would taken a 180 degree turn; loaded local governments like Shanghai can afford to give pets treatment better than rural area humans get. Hell, they might even issue deodorant for pets just for shows. At the end, it all comes down to cash.

[Kaji]

As to the 61¢ vs. 63¢ issue raised, do keep in mind that you still have to pay for the labor, either of the doctor issuing the shot, or the squads beating the dogs. The relative cost is further offset by the number who would really kill their own dog.