Rainbow flag creates controversy

[Candyvan Stan]

LINK (http://www.kwch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=KWCH%2FMGArticle%2FWCH_BasicArt icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189283448&path=%21news%21local)
His business has suffered - down to only a few local customers. The folks in Meade who've boycotted say it's too offensive for them to eat there.

Local resident, Keith Klassen says the flag is a slap in the face to the conservative community of Meade. “To me it's just like running up a Nazi flag in a Jewish neighborhood. I can't walk into that establishment with that flag flying because to me that's saying that I support what the flag stands for and I don't," says Klassen.

But despite the local ridicule and loss of business, Knight is determined to stand his ground. “When this rainbow flag shreds, I will buy another one, and another one, and another one - just like my American flag, I'll buy another one."

Knight says his son gave him the flag after a trip to Dorothy's house, a museum about the Wizard of Oz. The flag reminded the boy of "somewhere over the rainbow."

Note the comment from that guy in bold. Is it just me, or is that the most stupid comment you have ever heard? When did homosexuals kill 6 million straight people? America is on my list of countries I'd like to live in - specifically, the South of the USA, because I like the weather - but if things like these are commonplace maybe I should find a more liberal area/country. What is wrong with these people?

[Klilynkun]

i think it's the principle of the thing. Although the guy is flying the flag for a different reason but the flag has other meanings that people can't ignore. It's like if a black guy called another black guy n****r - to them, it's fine... but let a white guy say that to a black guy and that's a racial slur and is prosecutable.

It's like when Nike (or reebok or whatever... can't remember really) was found out that they make their shoes in india (or some country like that which is really poor) and that they exploit children to make them. People started boycotting that company. Because they don't support the exploitation of children and wearing the shoes (or whatever) from the company would make them feel like they are endorsing what the company is doing.

It's a principle. I'm not conservative or liberal (or any other political affiliation)
but if i saw a rainbow flag flying i would know what it stood for and probably would not go into that shop. I probably wouldn't take such a hard line to boycott the place and tell other people not to go there. But me myself wouldn't.

[Xuande]

One of the hotel owners wrote a letter (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/news_from_the_lakeway_hotel.php#more) explaining what's happened since the news report. Someone tore down the old flag, so he put another one up. This one he emphatically does mean to fly in support of gay rights.

[Candyvan Stan]

It's a principle. I'm not conservative or liberal (or any other political affiliation)
but if i saw a rainbow flag flying i would know what it stood for and probably would not go into that shop. I probably wouldn't take such a hard line to boycott the place and tell other people not to go there. But me myself wouldn't.


Do you mean hypothetically, if you were conservative - or are you against gay people yourself too? If the latter - I'm shocked. I didn't expect that from you, to be honest. Or just about anybody from this forum for that matter. Doesn't mean that I don't respect your opinion or anything, but I've never personally met anyone that thought like that where I live, so it's somewhat new to me. I can't dislike you for it or anything, because it's all social constructs - the way we were influenced by people, things we see and our society since we were born. It doesn't me more right than you are (even if people are quick to think that), but it still somewhat baffles me, to be honest.

[Jetsetlemming]

Yeah, it looks like he only had it up since his son gave it to him, not because of politics or anything. The only reason I'd ignore a place with a rainbow flag over the door is if it's meant to be a gay bar or something like that, but otherwise I'd just ignore it. It's ever so slightly immature to make a big deal over it. Michael, the majority of America is against gay marraige (I think it's just them being uncomfortable at the idea of two guys together), but just about nobody acts like that anymore. Though a really flamboyant gay guy would get lots of stares. And besides, it's not like everything in America is spread out evenly. In the northeast or west coast, you wouldn't see this kind of stuff at all.

[Klilynkun]

I think it's just them being uncomfortable at the idea of two guys together

I think it's more of what they do together than anything else really.

Do you mean hypothetically, if you were conservative - or are you against gay people yourself too? If the latter - I'm shocked. I didn't expect that from you, to be honest. Or just about anybody from this forum for that matter. Doesn't mean that I don't respect your opinion or anything, but I've never personally met anyone that thought like that where I live, so it's somewhat new to me. I can't dislike you for it or anything, because it's all social constructs - the way we were influenced by people, things we see and our society since we were born. It doesn't me more right than you are (even if people are quick to think that), but it still somewhat baffles me, to be honest.

as i said... i'm not connected to any political party because i agree and disagree with both of them on many points (not that i pay attention to politics). And it's not thjat i hate them or anything. I just don't agree with what "the majority" of them are pushing. I don't agree with a lot of things that they do. And I hear that they are very hypocritical. They want people to be understanding of their life style but if a heterosexual went around parading how they don't like same sex blah blah blah, they get offended. I've worked with someone that openly talked about his various sexual relationships (in explicit details) but when a man and woman hug he walks off in a huff talking about how that's distgusting :eyepop:

I don't really know why you would be shocked about me having a preference. They do. I wouldn't walk into a place that blatently had a confederate flag either.

And what exactly are you shocked about anyway? You haven't actually said what is new to you

[Jetsetlemming]

I just didn't feel like typing "two guys doin it", ok, Klilynkun? You got my meaning anyway.

[Klilynkun]

I just didn't feel like typing "two guys doin it", ok, Klilynkun? You got my meaning anyway.

yeah yeah... i was just messin wit ya :hat:

[Candyvan Stan]

I don't really know why you would be shocked about me having a preference. They do. I wouldn't walk into a place that blatently had a confederate flag either.

Heh, I actually have a confederate flag in my room. Didn't know of the connotations when I bought it, I just thought it was pretty.

And what exactly are you shocked about anyway? You haven't actually said what is new to you

That you'd not walk into a place which has a rainbow flag. In support of gay people or otherwise. It's not that I mind all that much, but I always thought people who are against gay marriage and whatever were confined to rural villages, without access to the internet. Didn't really think that there were so many people who are against it.

[Jetsetlemming]

Haha, are you from the southern netherlands? :P
And there are plenty of conservatives on the internet. Just look at www.anncoulter.com and the forums there. They called me a terrorist sympathizer, so I don't try to talk to them anymore. ;_;

[Radiance]

Well, I personally hate folks that are that intollerant. "OMG A FLAG" I love the south, I get all teary eyed when I hear ray charles singing Georgia... but to be that ignorant and hateful, it makes me angry and other southerners. Like one of the folks in Xuande's link said... I know where i'm staying if i'm ever passing through Meade, Kansas. (Not that i'm likely to any time soon) I mean personally i'm not uncomfortable around gays (is it just me or is that term more abrasive than anything else?) simply because I have many friends of that persuasion. Atlanta has the 3rd largest gay population in the nation. So its something I deal with on a daily basis.

Now I will say on the topic of GL&T marriages... What goes on between two people is their own business and I fully support that as long as they keep their personal escapades to themselves I have no issues with that sort of thing. Basically the same opinion I have for heterosexual couples. If you share explicit details about your relationship (that I havn't specifically asked about on a personal level, y'know friend to friend) I will slap you in the face and tell you to shut up, its none of my business nor is it respectful of you to spread that kind of information around about your partner(s).

So anyhow... Good for that guy, I am proud to see another american standing up for their opinions and beliefs despite it not being popular.

[Klilynkun]

That you'd not walk into a place which has a rainbow flag. In support of gay people or otherwise.

It must be really different in the netherlands... i guess it's just an american thing.... well... i'll put it in the british terms... i wouldn't walk into a place that had the BNP flag (if there is such a thing).

It's not that I mind all that much, but I always thought people who are against gay marriage It's not that I mind all that much, but I always thought people who are against gay marriage.

In england there is a law which, is still in force, against the action of "buggery" - england seems to be allowing gay marriages more and more even though this law is still active. And since you must actually consummate the marriage or it is not legal, every time gay people in england get together, they break the law. Just info for thought.

What goes on between two people is their own business and I fully support that as long as they keep their personal escapades to themselves I have no issues with that sort of thing.

That's not 100% true as the courts would blatantly tell you. And most gay people don't keep they're sexual adventures to themselves. I read an article that a bunch of people in florida (i think) were going to have a parade celebrating their heterosexuality, like the ones the gay people have, and they were told they couldn't because a bunch of gay people contested against it offended them.

[seiji]

My first thought was that homosexuality isn't an issue to me, so I wouldn't hesitate to walk into a place with a rainbow flag outside. But the more I think about it, the more I think I would hesitate (not because I don't like gay people: I don't care one way or the other about anybody's sexual preferences).

Walk into any bar in Japan with an American, British, Irish, or other such flag outside; half the people inside will be native English speakers seeking the company of other native English speakers, and the other half will be locals seeking the company of native English speakers. It's kind of amazing considering what a minority native English speakers are.

Truth is, walking in to a place with a prominent symbol of a certain idea does imply support of, or at least sympathy with, that idea. If I see a small restaurant with a Nazi flag outside, I expect that flag to attract a clientele of white supremacists. If I see a Confederate flag, I expect quite a few good ole boys--especially in Northern or West Coast regions where the place could act as a sort of rallying point for the few people who feel a connection to the symbol. If I see a rainbow flag, I expect a lot of gay people--as with the Confederate flag, this would go double in a strongly conservative area.

I would feel uncomfortable being the most open-minded person in a Nazi bar, the only "yankee" in a "rebel" bar, or the only straight person in a gay bar, especially since mere presence in such a place would imply membership in the group. And no, I am NOT equating homosexuals with Nazis: I would definitely prefer the gay company. I just don't generally enjoy being the only outsider in such a charged environment, and so I would probably avoid any of these places without trusted company.

Of course, if I found out the place wasn't actually a "gay bar" at all, but had a mixed clientele, it'd be just a place like any other. Even if it were a gay bar, I'd just have to make some gay friends. :innocent:

(I'm kind of loopy at the moment, so I hope that made some kind of sense...:box:)

[Radiance]

That's not 100% true as the courts would blatantly tell you.

Sorry if I presented that as fact, it is more my personal opinion. Though to the best of my knowledge it does hold true barring any illegal acts. I mean there are exceptions to just about everything.

[Klilynkun]

so... if two lesbians wanted to talk about there sex life you don't want to know? :eyepop:

[Radiance]

Frankly, no I don't. I gain nothing from that conversation what so ever. Now if they wanted to involve me, that is different.

[Klilynkun]

hehe :clap: well said

[Kwiz]

Local resident, Keith Klassen says the flag is a slap in the face to the conservative community of Meade. “To me it's just like running up a Nazi flag in a Jewish neighborhood. I can't walk into that establishment with that flag flying because to me that's saying that I support what the flag stands for and I don't," says Klassen.

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/6319/absurdityhz0.jpg

[Jetsetlemming]

^That image (not the poster, but the picture in the poster) is my AIM avatar. :D

[Druid]

Rwar...This reminds me of somethin I saw at orientation at school today. I just moved to Tennessee(a gay place that it is) and apparently the schools operate a little differently down here. You see, you're not allowed to wear shorts in the school but it's a-ok to wear a shirt with a confederate flag on the back that says " Don't apologize for being right." God forbid you wear shorts in 100 degree plus weather, but come on now. Oh and let's not forget that all shirts must be tucked into your pants. Ya know, there was a time where a certain country had every one look and act exactly the same. It was called natzi Germany. But it didn't work out to well. There was somethin about killing jews and one race being above all others, or somethin of the like.

[SelfLiveManikins]

Rwar...This reminds me of somethin I saw at orientation at school today. I just moved to Tennessee(a gay place that it is) and apparently the schools operate a little differently down here. You see, you're not allowed to wear shorts in the school but it's a-ok to wear a shirt with a confederate flag on the back that says " Don't apologize for being right." God forbid you wear shorts in 100 degree plus weather, but come on now. Oh and let's not forget that all shirts must be tucked into your pants. Ya know, there was a time where a certain country had every one look and act exactly the same. It was called natzi Germany. But it didn't work out to well. There was somethin about killing jews and one race being above all others, or somethin of the like.

wow and this was in tennessee, damn then i wouldnt survive there, i mean the shorts thing to me is ridiculous and i in california if you wear a confederate flag around here its like a strait ass beatin. it amazes me how different it is from state to state.

[Kyoushu]

I think I have to basically agree with seiji here. I don't hate gay people, but I wouldn't want to be the straight person in a gay bar.

However, since this guy has explained the reson behind the flag, and people are still rallying against him, I'm going to have to side with Knight. If I had any reason to drive the six hours to Meade, I'd stay there.

Sometimes I hate living in Kansas...

[Xuande]

Atlanta has the 3rd largest gay population in the nation. So its something I deal with on a daily basis.

Atlanta? Really? I never would have guessed. Then again, I've never spent much time in Atlanta proper despite living in north Georgia my whole life. Most of my idea of Atlanta is actually based on experiences in Duluth and other bits of sprawl, which I remember being covered in Bush-Cheney signs and bumper stickers the past couple of presidential elections.

[SGH]

Well, I personally hate folks that are that intollerant.

Hmmm......

[Xuande]

I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that.

I love Tom Lehrer.

[Dresh]

In england there is a law which, is still in force, against the action of "buggery" - england seems to be allowing gay marriages more and more even though this law is still active. And since you must actually consummate the marriage or it is not legal, every time gay people in england get together, they break the law. Just info for thought.

In many states the only "legal" method of having sex is in the missionary position. Also, lollipops are "banned" in the state of Washington. I have never heard of either of these laws being enforced in spite of still technically being in place.

[Xuande]

In many states the only "legal" method of having sex is in the missionary position. Also, lollipops are "banned" in the state of Washington. I have never heard of either of these laws being enforced in spite of still technically being in place.

These laws have effectively been invalidated by the Supreme Court, which ruled in Lawrence v. Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas) that Texas's law against homosexual sodomy was unconstitutional.

Edit: By "these laws" I mean the ones about sodomy, not the ones about lollipops.

[Klilynkun]

These laws have effectively been invalidated by the Supreme Court, which ruled in Lawrence v. Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas) that Texas's law against homosexual sodomy was unconstitutional.

Edit: By "these laws" I mean the ones about sodomy, not the ones about lollipops.

maybe in the U.S. but not in england

In many states the only "legal" method of having sex is in the missionary position.

That is not the only position in which you can have sex....um.... vaginal sex... :rofl:

don't you have any imagination? do you want i should get you a karma sutra book?

[Kuroshi]

Yes, but according to the legislature, that's the only one you can use.

And it's Kama Sutra. Karma is an entirely different thing than a Hindu god of love.

[h2orowe]

It disgusts me how intolerant people can be, and even though I'm going to seem intolerant by saying this, whenever I hear someone say something/act racist, I get in their face about it. Actually, at first I ask them not to use that type of language and the like, but if they just get bitchy, I get in their face.
There's this little wanna be skinhead at my school >>; I hope I have him in class this year... I've been wanting to kick his ass for a while. He's disrespected me so many times..

[Beowulf]

Simple psychology states that the more vehemently anti-gay you are, the gayer you fear yourself to be.

Now, to the bible. The bible is the main excuse these people to discriminate against a minority that they irrationally fear. But if you read the oldest copies of the bible, it states that the populace of Sodom (including women, the elderly, and children) called out to Lot (nephew of Abraham, who was residing in the city due to it's good grazing grounds) to show the men who came to him (in actuality they were two angels sent to Lot to warn of the impending destruction). The bible states that the populace wanted to "know them." "Know them" is a classic stumbling block for translators. The phrase has several meanings, and in this case could be any of them. KT could mean sex, but it also translates to rape, hospitality and welcoming, and reverance. Thus the true reason Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed was due to their "unnatural sins" (most likely just refusing God's word or repeated breaking of commandments), the cities were not destroyed because of homosexuality.

[PopCulturePooka]

Simple psychology states that the more vehemently anti-gay you are, the gayer you fear yourself to be.

I think the lady doth protest too much.

[Stephy]

… specifically, the South of the USA, because I like the weather - but if things like these are commonplace maybe I should find a more liberal area/country.
Michael, don’t generalize like that. NOT all people are stupid like that in America. I understand fully, that the Netherlands is open and possibly supportive of same sex relationships, but it doesn’t mean most of America (even the South) is always like that. I find that as a surprise as well. Also, in the summer, the weather in the South is very hot. :P

I probably wouldn’t even have seen the flag if I was going in that store. I am not very observant. Even if I did, I would never have thought that had a relation to sexuality or something like that. I probably would have thought it was pretty or something. (As long as it had pink or purple in it. >_>)

It is kind of moronic for a boycott to take place in response to the man having that flag, especially after he explained the meaning.

Also would like to show:
Massachusetts became the first state in America to legally permit gay marriage on May 17, 2004. The law allowing same-sex marriage was the outcome of a November 2003 ruling by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court that declared the prohibition of gay marriage to be a violation of the state's constitution.
I live in Massachusetts! We’re pretty open to it here. I don’t see many people here who are against it. If people were, then it is their own personal opinion, and an opinion can be expressed, but taking such matters to even protesting might be a bit extreme. They’re not wrong for it though. It is their views and their rights.

Finally, Klilynkun, I don’t think you should should ever think of visiting Massachusetts, America. You would hate it here. -nods-

Oh oh! I would like to say the word, "boycott" sounds funny. XD

[Candyvan Stan]

Michael, don’t generalize like that. NOT all people are stupid like that in America. I understand fully, that the Netherlands is open and possibly supportive of same sex relationships, but it doesn’t mean most of America (even the South) is always like that. I find that as a surprise as well. Also, in the summer, the weather in the South is very hot. :P


Note how I said "if", not "because". I wasn't generalising. You should know me better than that.

[Stephy]

Actually it is still pretty close. I keep what I said before. :D

And yeah I know I know... I still need to find a way to own you, remember? :P

[Candyvan Stan]

And there is no way denying the respectively higher amount of homophobia (and other things we would deem close-minded over here in the Netherlands) in the South of the US compared to other regions in the US. I'm not generalising if I'm just stating a fact and that I might feel uncomfortable around people that think radically different from the way I was raised. I'd not want to feel alienated or even disliked for being an atheist in an otherwise Christian area.

Generalising would be me saying "southerners are rednecks" - common sense would be saying "southeners are more prone to be homophobes and xenophobic compared to the North" - Hell, even Shannon said that at one point.

[Mysticalmelody]

Michael, you should come to California. Most of the people here against gay marriage are old people. And I'd also suggest southern cali rather than northern... unless it's around san fran of course. Generally stick to the coast :D

Anyhow. I find it quite funny that people use the bible to say that homosexuality is wrong. Check this out...

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

[Candyvan Stan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; California does sound great in a lot of ways.

To be honest, I'd not mind if people are against gay marriage. I'm not gay (no, really!) so it'd not affect me at all. I'm only for it because it'd mean something to other people and genuinely make them happy.

Anyway, let's not digress and make this a topic about where I'd like to live, heh.

[Mysticalmelody]

Personally.. I do sort of have something against people who are against gays or against gay marriage. It's simple intolerance. I know it's a tad hypocritical to say I don't tolerate people who are intolerant. It's different though.

I don't like people who think that people should be treated differently for something they were born with. People aren't born hating gay people or thinking they were gross, undeserving of equality, or inferior, they let stereotypes get to them.

It's equal to racism or sexism in my book.

Also, marriage isn't just christian. Virtually every religion has it's version of marriage. When Bhuddists get married they aren't forced to call it a civil union or given fewer rights because they weren't married in the christian church. Now consider it someone's religion that they should be able to marry someone of the same sex. Denying them that is against the constitution.

[Black Dog]

Michael, you should come to California. Most of the people here against gay marriage are old people. And I'd also suggest southern cali rather than northern... unless it's around san fran of course. Generally stick to the coast :D

Anyhow. I find it quite funny that people use the bible to say that homosexuality is wrong. Check this out...

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html


ROFL !!! Gotta love how people pick and chose what they preach, according to thier selfserving interests.:clap:

[Firefly]

America is on my list of countries I'd like to live in - specifically, the South of the USA, because I like the weather - but if things like these are commonplace maybe I should find a more liberal area/country. What is wrong with these people?


That news is from Witchita, Kansas. Probably not the most liberal place in the US, if you ask me XD There is always San Francisco...:gwitch:

[Ceirnian]

It would be funny to see an extremist anti-gay person dropped in the middle of SF for a week.

[Roxie]

Atlanta? Really? I never would have guessed. Then again, I've never spent much time in Atlanta proper despite living in north Georgia my whole life. Most of my idea of Atlanta is actually based on experiences in Duluth and other bits of sprawl, which I remember being covered in Bush-Cheney signs and bumper stickers the past couple of presidential elections.
If you check out the election maps, you'll see Atlanta is a Blue Island in a Red Sea (http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/AllArticles?issue=oid%3A18046)I've said it before and I'll say it again; California does sound great in a lot of ways..
Except that it's horrendously expensive to live out there.

On topic,

This is craziness. Why make a big stink? How is this hurting anyone? Hasn't he explained his reasoning? If you don't agree with The Wizard of Oz, then don't spend your $$$ there. Simple as that!

[Jetsetlemming]

There's a clothing chain store in my area, especially along 69th street called "Rainbow" XD. It doesnt' appear to be an affront to the community to have a store named Rainbow. Actually, I had never heard of the store until today when I was riding with a co-worker/hot girl I have no chance with to a customer in Coatesville.

[Roxie]

There's a clothing chain store in my area, especially along 69th street called "Rainbow" XD. It doesnt' appear to be an affront to the community to have a store named Rainbow. Actually, I had never heard of the store until today when I was riding with a co-worker/hot girl I have no chance with to a customer in Coatesville.
Oh, we have those here. They're normal clothing stores. Although my b/f calls it "hoe-in-training" store.

[RotoruaBoy]

In england there is a law which, is still in force, against the action of "buggery" - england seems to be allowing gay marriages more and more even though this law is still active. And since you must actually consummate the marriage or it is not legal, every time gay people in england get together, they break the law. Just info for thought.


the buggery act was revoked in 1967
UK legalized marrige between members of the same sex in 2004, the law came to effct in december 2005, gay/lesbian marriage is called a "civil partnership"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggery

Civil Partnership Act 2004
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2004/20040033.htm

Elton John was among the first to form a civil partnership in the UK as of wednesday 21 December 2005

some correct info for thought this time

[chad mullet]

Imagine being buggered by Elton John - that would cure you of being "gay" pretty quickly.

[h2orowe]

Imagine being buggered by Elton John - that would cure you of being "gay" pretty quickly.
Cure? You make it sound like a disease.

[Jetsetlemming]

Being gay is a disease, Joey. Just like Teen pregnancy. :yes: speaking of which, there's a 16 year old mother of a 2 year old on my team at work. :P

[h2orowe]

.:yes: speaking of which, there's a 16 year old mother of a 2 year old on my team at work. :P
Wow... that's.. awful.

[Jetsetlemming]

Nah, she's happy, and she's got a good paying job (she's much better at making appointments than me ._.), so she's all good. Not the best thing to happen at that age, but she's survived.

[Klilynkun]

:::beats thread with metal bat::::

die already.... DIIIIEEEE..... SSSIIIINNNEEEIIIII

[/|/@/|/@し]

Err.. Is there a reason for this thread to die??

I just moved to the South.. (The country part of Georgia) And not the city. I pretty much live in the country and where I usually hang out (work or non-work) people are from more city areas as well as more country areas. Compared to where I used to live, (South Florida) surprisingly enough, I heard more crap there than here. Then again, I don't ask random people what they think of homosexuality. But I do have a christain coworker whose an older lady that will upstraight say what she beleived - yet at the same time she won't force it on others. I also work with another older lady. Both are in their fourties.

Homosexuality came up once in a conversation and they said nothing bad about it. They just talked about it as if they were curious, and then continued to say that they didn't think anything was wrong with it.