America-state Of Emergency

[Ardo Zubairu]

Early in the morning today,i got a phone call from my distance cousin from Yola in Nigeria. after little embrassed greetings becoouse I am still in canada, she is interested to know about America State of emergency , she watch about the disaster in The CNN, and she wanted to know how possible is that such disaster happen in America? why Amercan that help orther countries and in SAme AMERICA THAT people sleep out 4 days without shelter? please can Americans in this Forum give her some answers?

[StormShadow]

That is a question that many Americans are asking as well. How can it be possible for aid to be given to a country thousands of miles away, across an entire ocean, and yet relief cannot be found for our own citizens only a few states away from our capitol. How is it that junkies can attack hospitols, 10-olds get raped, and people get stabbed in a supposely safe place, and yet neither the military or any real form of order seems to be there. America is just as confused as your cousin.

[Ardo Zubairu]

Then let the Americans accept the fact America is no longer a super power.
I belief my country Nigeria would have handle this situation very perfectly.
Up Nigeria for Super Power.

[StormShadow]

I'll second that! Nigeria can have a seat on the security council in the U.N. Things are getting fixed now in Orleans. The problem is that withing government, certain steps must be taken before others. Before troops can be sent into the city to control rioting and shooting at helicopters, the Governor must requisition it first from the federal government. Before money casn be sent down from the federal government, it must passs through congress first.

[Pretentious]

That is a question that many Americans are asking as well. How can it be possible for aid to be given to a country thousands of miles away, across an entire ocean, and yet relief cannot be found for our own citizens only a few states away from our capitol. How is it that junkies can attack hospitols, 10-olds get raped, and people get stabbed in a supposely safe place, and yet neither the military or any real form of order seems to be there. America is just as confused as your cousin.

That's the problem right there. Relief can't come to the city because, essentially, it's extremely hard to get into, plus the general anarchy and violence. What good will rescue efforts due if the people who are there to help are, in turn, injured, killed, or otherwise hampered by these low life, scummy, assholes wandering the streets with guns, shooting at anything they can?

I DO agree that the military needs to step in. As "un-American" as this sounds, New Orleans NEEDS martial law. Until things are under control, they NEED their freedoms restricted. The incompetent governer of Louisiana is yet another hindrance. She doesn't seem to be actually concerned by the situation, more like annoyed. It's obvious, atleast to me, that she doesn't really give a rat's ass about the people there and hey, how can you get them help when the person running the state comes off as not giving a fuck?

This whole thing has gone from heartbreaking to sickening over the course of the few weeks. I'm disgusted by the people running the relief efforts, I'm disgusted by the people in power for the city/state, and I'm especially disgusted by the scumbags taking advantage of this situation and making things worse for everybody else.

[StormShadow]

I DO agree that the military needs to step in. As "un-American" as this sounds, New Orleans NEEDS martial law. Until things are under control, they NEED their freedoms restricted. The incompetent governer of Louisiana is yet another hindrance. She doesn't seem to be actually concerned by the situation, more like annoyed. It's obvious, atleast to me, that she doesn't really give a rat's ass about the people there and hey, how can you get them help when the person running the state comes off as not giving a fuck?

.

Go to CNN website, they have an interview with the mayor of New Orleans. He has the completely correct attitude. Listen to it, for afterwords you will have to shut your mouth it will be wide open.

It sickens me the level of civil disobedience in that city. A convoy of buses was halted for 4 hours after pop shots were taken at a chinook. Shots were taken at a convoy leaving a hospitol. Who does that?

Let me think... what would be the most descriptive word for this situation?

Hmmmmm....... oh yes, this one works quite well. The situation in New Orleans is... are you all ready for this?...... FUCKED!

[Pretentious]

Yeah I just listened to it. I really feel bad for Nagin. He's pissed, and rightfully so. Due to the fact that I'm not religious, I don't usually say this but God bless him. He deserves it.

[Anubis Nine]

I don't really see why they're using helicopters to seal the levees, pumping the city out would take forever and as dead bodies pile up floating freely, disease comes tumbling after quite quickly. They should be working on getting everyone alive, *out*. The city isn't going to get much worse, whereas people could continue dying. Military should be there but it worries me,

I saw on the news people that paid 500$ per bus ticket to get out of the city only to find that their buses had been comandeered by the military already in the city. When they tried to walk out, they were met at gunpoint by the people in charge telling them to go BACK to New Orleans.

[StormShadow]

From the way that it sounds, he has had no contact with anybody. If I were in his place, I would let a lot more words fly, and most would being with F. I did like that he said 'pardon my French' in the beginning, and I like that he would say 'this is probably gonna get me in trouble' because he was right. Somethings people don't want you to say, and I am glad that he had the balls to say what needed to be said, and to try and be one man moving a mountain. I too am not a religious person, but I too can be so bold as to say God bless him, because he is saving lives. If the governor could follow his example maybe they could come out of things well enough to rebuild.

[Pretentious]

That reminds me, major kudos to the 18 year old who stole a school bus and managed to get people to Houston. Is it RIGHT that he stole that bus? As far as I'm concerned, yes. The evacuation effort is going down the shitter and so he took action, saving dozens of lives. Easily.

He'll face charges? I hope not. The kid should be hailed as a fucking hero.

[Trump]

As to why they might turn people back into the city, would you want the people shooting at helicopters and looting everything in sight let loose on the rest of the country? (Just playing devil's advocate)

[General_Admission]

I am so angry at the Bush Administration. The federal government hasn't done a single thing to help out the situation. All presidents before him have prosecuted oil companies when they raised prices on gas in a state of emergency, but not Bush for obvious reasons. It is sad how unprepared America is for an attack if ever one was to take place. It shows that nothing has been done since 9/11 other than airline companies being more rigorous in their profiling. America's infrastructure is going to pieces and instead of rebuilding it like Clinton wanted to do Bush has decided to waste it all on the war. We have no money to help ourselves. Now we know where are all our tax dollars have gone, straight into his war machine. It sickens me to see just how vulnerable America is, that nothing has been done about homeland security. Nothing has been spent on self defense or progress. Heck, Bush even fired scientists and threw out papers by the EPA that said global warming was happening, but Bush just saw it as wasting $ to research it further and instead decided to put $ into the space program in which there is no immediate emergency and his crusade, er…I mean war on terrorism in oil rich lands, er…I mean for WMDs, wait I mean to free the people of Iraq, actually, just to let them have an election. Yeah, that’s it. So they can have an election.

[AssButt.]

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

It's times like this I'm extremely, EXTREMELY glad I don't live in America. So Bush was warned not only against the hurricane hitting New Orleans, but a terrorist attack on New York City back in 2001? And what did he do? He cut funding for flood protection by 44% in Louisiana to pay for the Iraq war. People like him should be disqualified from running for government office.

[Mojinr]

I'd like everyone to note that the simple fact most people that are in New Orleans are angry minorities. I mean... yes, rescuing is taking a long time but if rescuing and such had been priority one, as many feel it should have been, anarchary would have never raised to such a level. Then you get skewered media reports about looting and such. It actually seems more like Martial Law now, it was stated earlier in the news that some soldiers from Iraq, Natonal Guard I think, are locked, loaded and ready to kill if necessary to protect places from looters.

What happened to getting food there? And water? Clothes and shoes for people? Maybe they wouldn't be stealing from footlocker if they had some decent shoes just to walk in or taking food from the grocrecy store if they had food with them. And at some point many of these angry, low class citizens probably thought that help just wasn't coming fast enough because the government didn't care, so they'd have to make due by any means.

[StormShadow]

So stealing shoes is a means? How is stealing shoes a normal reaction to being hungry? I know that when I get hungry, I don't go to my fridge, where I know there is food. I emmediately go to the local 7-11 and rob it, then maybe hit up the local Macy's for some new shirts. If your hungry, you steal food, and I think that is normal, and I would never prosocute a case like that. Looting the local foot locker is a differant thing entirely. And the senior officer at the scene has instructed all muzzles to be pointed at the deck the entire time, so to say that these soldiers are there to kill is completely misguided. Also, haven't you seen pictures of trucks after trucks in a convoy bringing in food?

[CNagy]

Except that while some are stealing food and supplies, others went and stole guns and ammunition; content to hold others up or kill them for the necessary supplies. But then, alot of the looting isn't exactly a necessity. Not a whole lot of electricity to power the televisions that were being looted, nor can one eat the gold that was taken from jewelry stores. There is no black and white here, it's not all people fighting to survive or people preying on other people; like it or not, it's lawless and when you have lawlessness you get to see how people act regardless of nationality.

Then let the Americans accept the fact America is no longer a super power.
I belief my country Nigeria would have handle this situation very perfectly.
Up Nigeria for Super Power.
Hahaha... ohh, I needed a good laugh.

[BluZytrix]

Actually, I think looting occurs because humans are "two days civilized". People say that our society has been cilivilized for hundreds of years. The fact is that if you take away food and water for two days, humans revert to their primal instincts of survival by any means. That is all that is going on. It is not about looting or stealing for the majority of people, but about survival.

[Praetorian]

Hahaha... ohh, I needed a good laugh.


Seriously though. Replace "Nigeria" with "European Union" and I think he's right on the spot.

That said, it's sad what's happening over there. You'd expect the governement to have a tad more control over its unruly citizens. People shooting at medical helicopters? What the hell?

[Mojinr]

So stealing shoes is a means? How is stealing shoes a normal reaction to being hungry? I know that when I get hungry, I don't go to my fridge, where I know there is food. I emmediately go to the local 7-11 and rob it, then maybe hit up the local Macy's for some new shirts. If your hungry, you steal food, and I think that is normal, and I would never prosocute a case like that. Looting the local foot locker is a differant thing entirely. And the senior officer at the scene has instructed all muzzles to be pointed at the deck the entire time, so to say that these soldiers are there to kill is completely misguided. Also, haven't you seen pictures of trucks after trucks in a convoy bringing in food?

You must have misread my post, I must have mistyped it or you are just being an ass. Anyway, it was stated many are walking around with dirty clothes, ruined shoes and haven't received aid for days. Today is a bit different since there are NOW trucks with food and supplies coming but at that time many people there felt abandon by America. If you're so sure of your righteousness that you'd never be reduced to looting under those circumstances I'm sure you've donated plenty of money to help as well.

And I know you can't believe all that "muzzles will be constantly pointed at the deck" stuff. Soldiers are just a human as any other man with a gun. He gets scared or paranoid then orders be damned. Not to say that things are horrible or give excuses but there is a reason for everything, some kind of cause and effect.

[CNagy]

Seriously though. Replace "Nigeria" with "European Union" and I think he's right on the spot.
The response seems hardly that different from any other emergency response in any other large bureaucracy; i.e. horribly inefficient, rife with confusion, full of mistakes. How often does an entire US city get destroyed? This isn't exactly something you can practice. One thing you have you understand about chain of command: it exists to keep people from taking initiative and making huge mistakes based on emotional reasons. The side-effect is that sometimes when something should be done, it isn't. No one is perfect.

The EU would probably have the same difficulty, if not moreso. Too many chiefs-- at least in the states, the state governments don't really impede on the central government in case of emergency. You would have so many bureaucracies at work in the EU that I doubt it would be accomplished any better than what is happening now.

That said, it's sad what's happening over there. You'd expect the governement to have a tad more control over its unruly citizens. People shooting at medical helicopters? What the hell?
The government, itself, has no control over the people. No government does. It is through its personnel that it maintains control. When there is no government representatives keeping order (by force in this case) then there is no reason for anyone to obey any sort of law; hence, lawlessness. The same remains true for any other country in the world, I would expect. It's been said that people shooting at the helicopters have essentially been saying "I have a family here and you better save us." Desparation makes people do stupid things, and occasionally those things help them personally survive even if it hampers the overall effort.

[akitaka]

Hmm. It's funny, too, because I believe they are moving more caution with this than the Tsunami relief efforts; they had a good number of the national gaurd hired JUST to keep the rampant crimes under control, as numerous officers decided to turn in their badges. Along with this, they are bringing USS Truman to serve as a base. Add the helicopters and you've got a rather heavy set of anti-crisis artillary.

[StormShadow]

Honore, I think that is the name of the CO on scene. He is an intimidating guy. As for aid from the feds, certain pathways have to be gone through. For example, martial law cannot be forced upon NO, the Governor has to ask. Money cannot be instantly *poof* given for aid, congress has to vote on it. Remember, the President does not make law, congress does. The president has certain powers, but congress holds the keys for certain actions. Also, the national guard is controlled by the STATE, not the federal government.

[MajorProblem]

I live near Dallas, and at this moment tons of refugees are pouring in, and a few are starting to even go to my high school. I'm glad that most of us here are opening our arms to them. That being said, there are 2 types of looters: the ones who do it for survival (looting food, water, clothing) and those who do it for criminal purposes (electronics, weapons, etc.). The survival ones are perfectly fine of course, but these criminals shooting at medical personnel are THE most sickening examples of human beings I have seen, for at least terrorists have a goal if they are doing something like that.

Also, on the whole super power issue, I think Bush has started the decline of America as a super power, and now it's going to be a contest between China and the EU. That's why I support greater US involvement with Europe, and maybe making a sort of peaceful NATO, for China is a great threat. Completely off topic, sorry.

[Joe]

Hahaha, KujinRetsu.

Man, that mayor is a bad-ass. And he's right you know, there's a whole bunch of talk. And no one is taking action. THIS is why we have a national guard, it's here for american security. So... where is it?

And now, instead of getting his shit in gear, bush is TOURING NEW ORLEANS. God dammit you fucking texan. I hope a gang comes out and steals the bush brigade's shoes. He could be sitting on his ass, in his office, making phone calls to bring in more troops, yeah, he can do it that easily. Instead, he's decided to go for a walk, why? Probably to make him seem more sympathetic. Shit, this is NOT the job for a republican, this is why democrats are here, they're good when it comes to helping people.

We need some of those troops we sent to iraq to come home, and bolster numbers.

Side note: Shit, just think of how troops in Iraq who lived in New Orleans feel right now. They were hoping to come home eventually, but wait, it's gone now. Damn...

[MajorProblem]

And now, instead of getting his shit in gear, bush is TOURING NEW ORLEANS. God dammit you fucking texan.
Hey, hey, hey, I agree with everything you said, just don't screw with Texas!

[Roxie]

It sickens me the level of civil disobedience in that city. A convoy of buses was halted for 4 hours after pop shots were taken at a chinook. Shots were taken at a convoy leaving a hospitol. Who does that?

I hear alot of it is ppl trying to get the attention of the authorities. One story reported that a guy was shooting at the police care so they would come get his family.

[StormShadow]

Hahaha, KujinRetsu.



And now, instead of getting his shit in gear, bush is TOURING NEW ORLEANS. God dammit you fucking texan. I hope a gang comes out and steals the bush brigade's shoes. He could be sitting on his ass, in his office, making phone calls to bring in more troops, yeah, he can do it that easily. Instead, he's decided to go for a walk, why? Probably to make him seem more sympathetic. Shit, this is NOT the job for a republican, this is why democrats are here, they're good when it comes to helping people.

We need some of those troops we sent to iraq to come home, and bolster numbers.

..

The national guard is controled on the state level, Bush can't touch them, or make them dance. UNless specifically asked by LA, he can't send in normal troops, as that is against the constitution. This shouldn't be a partison effort, as you want to make it, but an effort that trancends political bickering.