North Korea chooses July 4th to test missles.

[Kannon]

Slap in the face for America? Coincidence? I think not. What will come of this, and what do you think N.Korea's intentions were?

I don't think it was a good judgement choice by ol' Kim Jong, I guess it just depends on how far he wants to take this.

[CNagy]

He's posturing, trying to show us that we have to take him seriously. I doubt anything will come out of this except more posturing, eventual talks, and the eventual deal.

[jindojim]

North Korea: I want attention!

US: Quiet. We'll talk later and punish you with economic sanctions. But, since you have no resources we can use, we won't retaliate.

[Kannon]

I'm sitting at the LE desk at the moment, and you'd be suprised the amount of time people are sitting at the STU III phone (secure line) on July 4th, when usually we are bare bones on holidays...

[Riinuka]

Hmm.. Looks like I'll have to try to move the discussion from my topic in "All Things Japan" to here. X x;

I wasn't all that shocked at the events of today.. What pisses me off is that they continue to fire them off when multiple countries have sent warnings.

Also, it irks me that one of the "Scuds" went into the closer area around Japan that the country claims as its territorial waters...

[c-rex]

And the big ICBM failed 40 seconds after launch according to CNN. How priceless would it be if the next one fails at launch and takes out a NK Base?

North Korea has a nuke that might work. We have enough working nukes to create "The New Sea of North Korea" should we chose to do so and they know it. We should just cut all aid off to North Korea and get Japan and the like to follow suite. To get their flow of energy resources and food back make them sit down and sign treaties / let inspectors in. They fire another one, cut food again.

[Kannon]

Took me 4 hours to realize I misspelled "missile" in the subject line... DOH.

[Kannon]

LMAO c-rex your sig link is classic...

The U.N. said the incident is already under investigation, and promised swift action against those found responsible for giving the Canadians guns. Initial findings indicate that the Vancouver crew may have been watching too many American television shows.

[Riinuka]

Mnn.. I just hope a missile doesn't somehow 'find' its way to Seol. S. Korea has already said it'll have no part in affairs if the U.S decides to carry out retaliation against North Korea...

[paul]

Mnn.. I just hope a missile doesn't somehow 'find' its way to Seol. S. Korea has already said it'll have no part in affairs if the U.S decides to carry out retaliation against North Korea...

I dunno if South Korea is going to have a choice, dear. >_< Its like Turkey and Iraq, they're pretty close :P

[Josh]

North Korea can suck my balls on this matter. I know for a fact they work so much better than anything they launched today. And its pretty reliable.

As a matter of fact, im going to sell my ball technology to North Korea.

Lol... "Canada has a warship?" That was pretty funny.

[jindojim]

Yeah, if any sorta conflict happens in North Korea, South Korea is probably going to be dragged into it in some form, whether they want to or not. And, if any intense conflict breaks out there (which I doubt), Seoul is gonna take some damage.

With their nuclear tests though, it's good fortune that North Korea didn't hit Japan. And crappy technology.

[Josh]

North Korea and South Korea are still technically at war. They never signed a peace treaty, just a cease-fire. A cease-fire that has lasted 50+ years, but a cease-fire nonetheless.

Yeah, Seoul is only about 20 miles (I think) from the border so they are gonna get pounded big time. It wont even need to be airplanes, artillery will cover that distance easy.

[fa11en87]

Ohh this sounds interesting! I wonder what will happen.

[Hatsumomo]

I remember a few weeks ago that Japan has stated that if any missile comes near the nation, they will treat it as an attack and be all up in North Korea's shit. North Korea has to reach over Japan in order to get to the U.S. and Japan's not having it. I woke up to this on the news this morning (and had no idea what happened until my sister IM'ed me).

[Trump]

All I have to say about this is... meh. North Korea is just going for a rise out of people. Who really cares?

[ruaidhri]

We are witnessing very dangerous saber rattling. I believe North Korea was always a more serious threat to the world than Iraq. In my opinion Kim Jong II is comparable to a gang leader attempting to take over a city. The only way he can win is if he’s allowed to win. We can’t let that happen.

So, what does the world do to stop North Korea? There is no doubt that they are attempting to extort the money and supplies they can’t provide for themselves. From my perspective, they are nothing more than criminals holding the world hostage.

Obviously the world could slap sanctions of North Korea, but, if we did, who would do most of the suffering, the people. Also, I believe, sanctions would only be successful if we had the full support and participation of China. Without China’s active support, the isolation of North Korea would, I’m afraid, be a failure. Personally, I doubt China will display the commitment necessary to stop Kim Jong II.

We also could send naval ships and additional troops to South Korea. The question then becomes: Are we diminishing or increasing the threat to world security? If North Korea acted militarily and we responded, could we light the spark of nuclear war? Even without China’s involvement, North Korea does have the ability to drop a bomb on Japan. If they did, would the U.S. respond by dropping even bigger nuclear devices on the people of North Korea? Then, the question becomes: What would the Chinese do?

Of course, there’s always that other answer. Give them what they want. We could always let them win by threatening us. That solves one problem for today and creates a thousand for tomorrow.

So, what would I do? I’d try to get China to wield the big stick. With their booming economy, they have an awful lot to lose. One thing I wouldn’t do is to reward North Korea or Iran or any other country that threatens to develop nuclear weapons.

All in all, this is a very dangerous game.

[Jetsetlemming]

Kim Jong II
You know, every time I see it written out I think "Kim Jong two: Electric Boogaloo."

We also could send naval ships and additional troops to South Korea. The question then becomes: Are we diminishing or increasing the threat to world security? If North Korea acted militarily and we responded, could we light the spark of nuclear war?
No, it won't. He doesn't have a nuke yet. He's TRYING to get one. That's what those talks were about. As far as I'm concerned, just bomb the hell out of any base that has a launch pad capable of shooting that ICBM of his (that doesn't yet work... :hat: ). Then laugh. Point and laugh. Have Bush get on TV live and make fun of Kim's hair.

[Trump]

I think we should just ignore him. He is going for attention, and to show him it doesn't work we should do the opposite, ignore him.

[setrict]

"So, what would I do? I’d try to get China to wield the big stick. With their booming economy, they have an awful lot to lose. One thing I wouldn’t do is to reward North Korea or Iran or any other country that threatens to develop nuclear weapons."

Completely agree. We need to let China step up if at all possible. The last thing we need to do is another military action. Making nutjob led countries nervous by toppling goverments is a major factor in what caused this problem in the first place. Even if we stomp them, it will just reinforce the fears of the next nutjob state into doing something rash. It's like the nuclear version of whack-a-mole.

[sgt. pepper]

Some of the people in this thread doesn't realize that using nukes cause far more trouble than it solves. Radioactivity spreads like hell, if a modern nuke is used then several countries would get contaminated. And even if the radioactivity doesn't spread that much, a shitload of civilians would still suffer horribly.

[Riinuka]

Last I checked, there are 3-4 mid-range missiles on various pads that are capable of hitting the Japanese islands - says a South Korean journalist.

I'll consolidate the topics, and move the discussion from mine to here. Anyone object?

If not, let me copy most of what I wrote there, which is oddly similar to Ruaidhri's post. xP

....And, one of the 'scuds' went into the closer region of waters surrounding Japan.. So North Korea has already violated their boundaries.

The missiles launched from the ships all landed in the Sea of Japan, though, and the Taedopong II apparently blew up on the launch pad ~40 seconds into the launch sequence, which is what happened in 1998. Now tell me... Wouldn't the North Koreans be kinda pissed that 8 years of work resulted in the same outcome - obliteration of an expensive project?

Also, Japan urged the U.N today to consider a sanction plan calling for a ban on products that aid the manufacture of such missiles and things, namely technological items. There's been talk on the news here about China being the one that would have to step in with huge sanctions on food in order to get Kim Jong-II to stop this, but I fear another Russia will happen, in that he'll just ignore food production/trade and focus on this....

I agree that China will have to work with us/the U.N. if we're to actually stop this display NOW. We could let it cool off... But I don't think Kim Jong II would appreciate being ignored again.

Early news reports at this moment say he's requesting another reactor, but it's unconfirmed. I just hope we don't do the WWII thing and let him have his way and be placated, as Hitler was allowed to for a while.. Anyone want to know what I mean, think "invasion". ((I'm referring to the Czech-issue from that time period.))

Sorry if I seem to be randomly rambling and drawing in non-related issues.. I swear it makes sense in my head. x x;

I'm not so sure if China will want to get involved with this. They are N. Korea's number one trading partner, and I know that they are the main influence on Kim Jong II.. But, in the past, (warning; non-researched observation) he's always obeyed what the Chinese government lays down... i.e., "China: Hey, don't go blowing things up, kay? That's not cool." "Kim Jong II: Alright..."

But, in this case, he seems to have overlooked China, and done this without any sort of conversation with China. That may make the Chinese government uneasy.. because of this, I see a situation where the controlled (N.K) is turning the tables on the controller (China), and will soon start acting in more independent ways, even to the extent of threatening China if they start to stand in the way of his actions.

Very tense.

Also, I worry about Russia. I haven't heard much of what they may be doing to help negotiations/talks. I know the UN went into special-session, and that nothing was done on the first day (something that greatly worried the U.S. and Japan)...

*shakes head* So many more speculations I have; so little time....Unfortunately, it's time for bed on my end.

I look foward to more discussion tomorrow!

[MSquared]

Australia seems to be more pissed than anybody.

[Riinuka]

Agreeing there.

[Vic_Rattlehead]

Shouldn't jump to conclusions. Maybe they were celebrating too. Just without sparklers and fireworks, they wanted to be extra special and throw up a few missles. *shrugs*

[Riinuka]

Heh.. If only...

What is it, 3-4 more on pads, and North Korea now threatening anyone that may stand in their way...?

[Josh]

Dunno dude. Some rednecks shoot guns into the air around where I live so maybe North Korea is uber-redneck and they do, in fact, shoot missiles (sucky ones) into the air not knowing exactly where they are going to land and not caring about who notices.