Moving to Japan (about, I'm not actually >.> <.< yet.)

[h2orowe]

OK, don't think I'm another wapanese kid going OMG OMG IM GOING TO MOVE TO JAPAN WHEN I GROW UP AND TEACH JAPANESE AND WEAR KIMONOS AND BLAH BLAH WATCH ANIME ALL DAY BLAH BLAH BLAH
I plan on learning Japanese, and getting a teaching degree, so I can teach English (not assist but teach) in like High Schoolish maybe Jr. High. From what I've heard both TV wise (travel shows! Not anime ((even though I'm not completely un-Wapanese XD))) and reading the editorials and various posts I'd probably like it there.
I just want to know, if I move there, and not like totally act but fit in and know the people, will I always be viewed as a Gaijin and always be the man out?
What if I get like friends in Japan, and marry, and live there? Will I always just be like that Gaijin.
I don't plan on BEING Japanese, but I want to know that if I move, I won't be looked down on when I live there. Hell, I get looked down on here for being white XD hahah "Pinche Gringo!" well not so much looked down on, but we joke around and such.

[atomiton]

OK, don't think I'm another wapanese kid going OMG OMG IM GOING TO MOVE TO JAPAN WHEN I GROW UP AND TEACH JAPANESE AND WEAR KIMONOS AND BLAH BLAH WATCH ANIME ALL DAY BLAH BLAH BLAH
I plan on learning Japanese, and getting a teaching degree, so I can teach English (not assist but teach) in like High Schoolish maybe Jr. High. From what I've heard both TV wise (travel shows! Not anime ((even though I'm not completely un-Wapanese XD))) and reading the editorials and various posts I'd probably like it there.
I just want to know, if I move there, and not like totally act but fit in and know the people, will I always be viewed as a Gaijin and always be the man out?
What if I get like friends in Japan, and marry, and live there? Will I always just be like that Gaijin.
I don't plan on BEING Japanese, but I want to know that if I move, I won't be looked down on when I live there. Hell, I get looked down on here for being white XD hahah "Pinche Gringo!" well not so much looked down on, but we joke around and such.


don't worry about what people say here, man.

Just do it, and get over with it. Why worry about it. I know Persian who's been in Japan for 15 years... and she's a single female... make the right friends, you'll be fine.

[koku]

well, if you become the worlds greatest pachinko player they will holst you high and mighty. On tuesdays they will knit you "world's greatest gai-" sweaters. The sweaters will come very handy too.

That's what I've gathered.




edit: for the record. I'm very interested in this too. I wanted to make a thread like this but chose not too. Obvouisly one person can't speak for everyone but share your ups and downs and your little eyes on the topic.


Also, as h2owore will agree, casual friends don't count. Making best friends. People that consider you their best friend aswell despite you being foreign. I think that's what truly means something. As far as the opposite sex, I've seen japanese and non japanese marraige, I don't really think that will pose much of a problem, but throw that In if your view is different.

[h2orowe]

XD Imagine if I marry a Gaijin I met in Japan. I wonder how that'd be.
What if that happened to a guy with a case of Yellow Fever
"I moved to Japan looking for a Japanese girl, but I fell in love with that honkey over there T.T"
For me, I've got too many illnesses. I've got Yellow fever, Latin fever, Jungle fever, and Cracka fever.
Hahaha, well the point of this thread, I just want to know if I can be happy in a country, I don't like being the one that stands out in a negative way.

[nice gaijin]

There are probably a few インターナショナルスクール that will accept someone with the proper credentials as a full time English teacher, but your chances of being the main teacher in a public school are slim to none.

As for fitting in, you'll never be overlooked as a gaijin, but this doesn't mean you'll be branded as a social outcast. If you can speak well enough to get along, and know the customs enough to not make an ass of yourself, you probably can make friends. however be aware that Japanese people form bonds with 同僚 (colleagues), fellow classmates or office workers or club members, and it's really difficult to break into these circles of friends. As a foreigner you don't have any 同窓 (fellow alumni) from the getgo, so you have to work a bit harder to find friends and people with common interests. Even so, your ability to make friends is up to you and your interpersonal skills.

btw you'd have to be insane to actually go to Japan looking for a wife. I do know of someone who teaches in Korea who met his wife there (from canada). It's not terribly uncommon.

[mediocre]

I just want to know, if I move there, and not like totally act but fit in and know the people, will I always be viewed as a Gaijin and always be the man out?


You will always be an 'outsider' to a degree. You will be part of the population that is less than 1% of the populace.

It'll take you years upon years to have a grasp of japanese that could fool most natives. And that is really the first impression strangers will have of you.

Close and personal friendships can be had when you are at least moderately fluent (better word for this, i'm sure), so at least you can then begin to network people for drinking buddies and best-man material type buddies. Remember however, just like any country, the mainstay of your friend-making comes from school and work. Assume your workplace is full of older people and/or idiots, and then you can see the uphill climb in front of you.

Having said that, it all means shit because your experience in japan will mainly depend on where you live and who you live/work with. You could be surrounded by racists/exclusionists in your life.

I knew some people who got teaching jobs at high schools (i think HS at least), not ALT jobs, but they were good at japanese and... actual teachers -- with credentials and certificates.

I don't want to tell you to not do it, but, flat out, I question your motives.

[Samwise]

www.debito.org

It has a decent comparison for Japanese vs. American citizenship tests. This guy moved to Japan, READ EVERYTHING HE WROTE. This is the Perma-Gaijin Bible.

[mediocre]

www.debito.org



Honestly, some of his stuff is good reading and some of it comes off as just childish whining. I wouldn't deem his writing as must-read, must-worship words, though the more objective information (ie: dealing with marriage) is telling.

His dealing with particular business is unfortunate, but really not some widespread conspiracy agaisnt the gaijin-man.

[Samwise]

You have never come up against a civil serviceman with a small penis complex, I take it.

It can be VERY hard to get equal treatment when you're an American in Japan. Trust me on this, please? I really do not want to get into details, just trust me, there are some people who will treat you like shit just because you're an American. I'm not saying they all will, but there is a lunatic fringe who hate hate HATE us.

So, his ranting isn't always without merit, and his section on gender roles in Japan makes for entertaining, if not enlightening, reading.

[mediocre]

I lived in japan, not as extensively as Debito (or even you, perhaps), but I am quite aware of blatant discrimination. I was afraid of cops and had my share of empty seats near me on the yam line.

I'm not saying there isn't some cause for the stuff Debito does, but I've been turned away from an onsen because I was gaijin. I have yet to file suit.

[Samwise]

Well that's understandable. Americans are larger and smell worse than Japanese men do. You'd put that poor onsen out of business washing all your nasty foreign cracks and crevases, you see.

[koku]

Well that's understandable. Americans are larger and smell worse than Japanese men do. You'd put that poor onsen out of business washing all your nasty foreign cracks and crevases, you see.


I think you shower/rinse off first.

[Samwise]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm

[koku]

yeah, but you were still implying they go in. i knew you were sarcastic about the "fouls tench" etc.

but it SEEMED like you thought they just jump in....so i was pointing out that i think they shower/rinse off first anways..

no?

[Kustom]

Ok, let me get this off my chest... Why the hell are there so many topics from people saying: "I wanna study/work in Japan for years, do you think I'd be ok?".

Come on! If you've got the motivation to live in Japan for so long, surely you can save some money and go there for two weeks to find out what it's like? Japanese culture is about as different from American culture as it gets, save North Korea... There's no way you'll know whether you'll fit in before you've actually been there; it depends much more on your personality and your adaptability than anything you study or how many animes/J-pop songs/martial arts you may know!

No one can tell you for sure if you're gonna be ok... But I think planning to devote years of study and plan to spend years in a country you've never even been to is plain insane, even if it's Canada... So, get a plane ticket and find out for yourself. If you're not gonna do that, then me too, I question your motives...

Now, as for fitting in as well as a Japanese, it's impossible with strangers because they will always notice you're different before you get a chance to show off your perfect Japanese accent, and react accordingly. But it's entirely possible to make friends or marry, and be considered a person more than a "gaijin" by them, of course.

Anyway, I always think that gaijins in Japan get a much better deal than Japanese in Japan, so I stopped feeling sorry about my gaijinness... :cool:

[Invictus]

Perspective from someone presently residing in the heart of Japan...

OK, don't think I'm another wapanese kid going OMG OMG IM GOING TO MOVE TO JAPAN WHEN I GROW UP AND TEACH JAPANESE AND WEAR KIMONOS AND BLAH BLAH WATCH ANIME ALL DAY BLAH BLAH BLAH

Not that any of the above is necessarily unenjoyable... ;)

I plan on learning Japanese, and getting a teaching degree, so I can teach English (not assist but teach) in like High Schoolish maybe Jr. High.

Highly unlikely that you'll be able to do so at the government-school level. Quite possible at the right private schools, however.

From what I've heard both TV wise (travel shows! Not anime ((even though I'm not completely un-Wapanese XD))) and reading the editorials and various posts I'd probably like it there.

Japan is great. However, I guarantee that it won't be anything like you expected. To put it poetically (and literally, to a degree), the air is different here. It quickly gets to some people, and others seem to thrive thereupon.

That said, it totally depends on your attitude. If you're moaning and groaning about your situation in your home country, chances are Japan won't suit you any better. Japan is a place to go, not a place to escape.

I just want to know, if I move there, and not like totally act but fit in and know the people, will I always be viewed as a Gaijin and always be the man out?

Yes and no. Most people will treat you with great respect and deference if you observe the correct social decorum, but you cannot ever hope to be Japanese. In fact, some people will be very uncomfortable if you demonstrate deep knowledge of Japanese culture.

In some cases, it is indeed a sense of condescension, but for the most part it's a recognition of otherness. The Japanese are still quite clannish in nature, so you will never entirely be a member of the tribe, so to speak.

What if I get like friends in Japan, and marry, and live there? Will I always just be like that Gaijin.

Like I said, you will never be Japanese as such, but this will not prevent you from making close and deep friendships, or from smoothly functioning in society.

I don't plan on BEING Japanese, but I want to know that if I move, I won't be looked down on when I live there. Hell, I get looked down on here for being white XD hahah "Pinche Gringo!" well not so much looked down on, but we joke around and such.

Where exactly do you live? Growing up in Mexico, I heard the ole "Pinche Gringo" quite a bit. :P

Unless you go out of your way to stir the waters, you generally won't be looked down upon at all... and even if you are, the Japanese generally keep their "face" up enough that you won't know about it unless they want you to.

Anyway, I always think that gaijins in Japan get a much better deal than Japanese in Japan, so I stopped feeling sorry about my gaijinness...

Quoted for truthfulness, exception being if you're accosted by someone who has the authority to get away with being a bastard (like the fuzz, for instance). You'll always be treated a bit differently, but as a rule you'll rarely be treated badly as a result of being gaijin.

[h2orowe]

I don't know what exactly drew me to Japan, it's like I saw all the travel things; I've studied the history (I forgot most of it -.-, stupid summer); I've done some Wapanese things yes, but that's not the reason I'm going; I've been told of the curteous nature of the people there, and I'm sure not everyone is, but I respect that alot, cuz I'm a total says "thank you", "please" and "excuse me" too much kind of guy; and just the whole stories I've heard just sounds like some random ass good times.
I can't really visit Japan, seeing as how the only time I'll have enough money to go, is when I've already decided my majors, and such; I come from a poor family so I haven't been on vacation in like 6 years, and even then, it was visiting relatives in Ohio.
I really want to teach in Japan, and if I'm not going to do that, I want to become a counsellor, to help people. I'm a sophomore starting next Thursday, and I kind of need to do my research on what I'm planning to be because it's only a few years away, and I need to know what to do/be prepared for. It sucks, because I'm going to have to learn Japanese by myself, because there is no courses in our HS district that I can take. The closest thing we have to Japanese is Spanish -.-

I live in Southern California, so it's basically a high Mexican/high Vietnamese population.

[koku]

Ok, let me get this off my chest... Why the hell are there so many topics from people saying: "I wanna study/work in Japan for years, do you think I'd be ok?".

Come on! If you've got the motivation to live in Japan for so long, surely you can save some money and go there for two weeks to find out what it's like? .... So, get a plane ticket and find out for yourself. If you're not gonna do that, then me too, I question your motives...
:cool:


lol kustom you silly you. alot of people don't have the 3k+ to spend on a 2 week trip alone.

If they had that money there's plenyt of other things they want/need that has been on a waiting list :P

Also, for some people, their questions are on long term fitting in.

Example for me, I know some people will still give me a hard time, I know alot of people will have prejudices of me, but I just wanted to know if I could make a few best friends and a handfull of good friends.


I can't find that out in 2 weeks :P


My advise for anyone that wants to know. Do study abroad in school. Somewhere along the road you'll most likely be paying overpriced tuition. Some schools have really good and really cheap study abroad options that end up being the same cost as the shchool itself.

I figure if you're going to pay/loan out for overpriced tuition, might aswell travel no?

[atomiton]

if you want to learn conversational japanese on your own... FIND/BUY the Pimsleur system. I started learning in January with NO background and I work full-time and am VERY busy, and using the internet and Pimsleur I can usally understand what goes on in a conversation between Japanese people, and I can hold a pretty good conversation. I also went to night school for 16 weeks... which helped with grammar... but pimsleur was by far the better for learning... with less effort...

[Kustom]

lol kustom you silly you. alot of people don't have the 3k+ to spend on a 2 week trip alone.

If they had that money there's plenyt of other things they want/need that has been on a waiting list :P

Also, for some people, their questions are on long term fitting in.

Example for me, I know some people will still give me a hard time, I know alot of people will have prejudices of me, but I just wanted to know if I could make a few best friends and a handfull of good friends.


I can't find that out in 2 weeks :P


My advise for anyone that wants to know. Do study abroad in school. Somewhere along the road you'll most likely be paying overpriced tuition. Some schools have really good and really cheap study abroad options that end up being the same cost as the shchool itself.

I figure if you're going to pay/loan out for overpriced tuition, might aswell travel no?

True, you can't find out much in 2 weeks, but you can still get a feel for what it's like to be here... In fact I would rather have written one month, but I thought 2 weeks could be a minimum. 3k is and isn't a lot of money. You CAN come up with that kind of money if you're the kind of person that would travel 12 000 miles to a country with a completely different culture and decide to live there for years at 18. If you do summer jobs for 3 years and save up, I'm sure you can get the money. (This is not the only way, I've heard of exchange programs with Japanese high schools etc)

It is a huge investment, but much less than commiting 4 years of your life to study a language and live in a country you've never been to... What if you become a graduate in Japanese and all and you find out you actually hate it here? I've seen it happen to some of my colleagues, it can be really ugly.

In fact, some people arrive fresh from the boat, not knowing any Japanese nor the business end of their chopsticks, but after 6 months they fit in pretty well and have plenty of friends... Some other people are living encyclopedias about Japanese culture, mangas, music, kanjis etc and lived here for ten years, still they have no Japanese friends... Those are some of the most bitter people you could meet.

Living in Japan is a good way to find out about your own limits, how far you can go and how well you can adjust. I just think it's useful to keep a way out until you know for sure that's what you want to do with your life; and nothing can replace living here, even for a short time.

[h2orowe]

Man, I really wish I could travel to Japan, but like, if I get a job, I'm going to be paying for my car only, pretty much. It sucks, I have to wait another year to get a job.
If I don't get a scholarship to college, I might just take a year off school, maybe I'll work and save up to go to Japan. I bet that'd take a while though :( err, it's so dumb, it's like "You have to base the biggest decision you'll make in your life, off of stories you hear on the internet, and books, and tv shows, just because you don't have money in your family like some do."

[Kustom]

Don't worry, you're not in such a rush and you still have time to figure out your options...

If you're really determined (and you seem to be), you'll work out a way to go to Japan and do what you want. Just keep your options opened til you've actually been there.

[h2orowe]

Ha! Hopefully I won't come too late, and live there, and hate it! I doubt I will.

How will it work out if I don't drink? Will they take it offensively? Cuz if they do, maybe I'll learn to have a cup of sake now and then, for it seems they drink alot for special events.

[Invictus]

How will it work out if I don't drink? Will they take it offensively? Cuz if they do, maybe I'll learn to have a cup of sake now and then, for it seems they drink alot for special events.

Learn to take the cup of sake (or more likely can of Kirin/Asahi) now and again. In Japan, alchohol is a social lubricant, and he who drinketh not doth not quite participate in society. Your buddies won't take offense, but you'll have many less opportunities to culturally establish yourself, so to speak.

[h2orowe]

Haha, oh, I just never was appealed to drinking. I'd rather be the designated driver :p I can always milk them for gas money when they're drunk.

"Excuse me, Junichiro, can I have some money for gas?"
"You want... 500 dolla?"
"Yessa"
"YOU WANT 500 DOLLA?!"
"Yes...."
"Here you go"
"Headshot!"

[Invictus]

Unfortunately, in Japan, a lot of people have bikes or use public transportation. As such, the designated driver trick won't work as often as you'd like. Nice try, though... ;)

[nice gaijin]

tap water has a higher alcohol content than izakaya cocktails, I'd recommend drinking those if you don't want to get drunk.

[Invictus]

LOL! Too true. Actually, I'd just get a drink and take one tiny sip for each "KAMPAI!!!"

Since it's customary for others to fill your glass in Japan, you can strictly regulate how much alchohol you take in by simply leaving your glass full when you've had enough. As long as you do actually drink something, most folks will be only too happy to let you decide whether or not you want to get drunk...

[koku]

3 years of summer jobs to go to Japan for a few weeks? Yeah, it's possible.

but with alot of people if they had that money, don't you think it would have to go to

car
gas
car insurance
bills
school/tuition

?? I agree though, taking the language for 4 years and having no idea is a bad thing. Study Abroad on the other hand--notice the advocate for it :P, can be efficent in money because you're still getting college credits, and it's also long term enough to make up your mind.

To anyone in h2orowe's stage, I'd just say asking questions like this is good. There are already some good forums that are designed for things exactly like this. As much as possible, ask are you interested in living in Japan and it's culture and not just what you see on tv(if that's not obvouis enough).

Find a few people that have been there too. Oh, TAKE THE LANGUAGE IN HIGHSCHOOL. Also if you're not sure, don't major in the language obvouisly.

[Invictus]

Good words, Kokujin. My number one piece of advice for anyone wanting to live in Japan for a year or longer is to learn as much of the language as you possibly can, emphasis on asking directions and shopping. ;)

[Kustom]

I really think that it's a matter of personal inclinations and no amount of language or cultural study can help you with that... You gotta be very flexible culturally speaking, have diplomacy and know when to keep your mouth shut. You have to be ready to live in a society where people won't express themselves directly and must be second-guessed (good indication of that would be how confortable you are with women). I don't think that you need to know much about the language or even the culture if you are adaptable enought, you'll pick it up and what you read can be misleading.

That's why I greatly recommend that you go there and have a look for yourself as I don't believe anything can adequately prepare you to the cultural shock, except maybe hanging around Japanese people in America if you can find some. Like I said, if you'd rather buy a car, do it but then you're probably more fit to live in America ;)