Does it make Sense?

[Urban~Ninja]

Im leaving Japan is just over 1 month, so im trying to go out with as many friends as i can every weekend, which means i can go with one set of friends a weekend. The problem is i want to invite a group of friends who's English sucks...these kids must never have listened in ANY English class, except for one who is actually better then the kids who do the extra english classes and are studying it alot more then her.

Now i was wondering does this make sense, or atleast explain what i want to say.

皆さんの日曜日はてんもんかに行ったらどうですか

I want to say "Would you all like to go to tenmonka on sunday?"

Since i never learnt how to invite people to things or ask them to come etc, this was the best i could do with a dictionary and some grammar websites.

Thanks.

[Badfish]

Im leaving Japan is just over 1 month, so im trying to go out with as many friends as i can every weekend, which means i can go with one set of friends a weekend. The problem is i want to invite a group of friends who's English sucks...these kids must never have listened in ANY English class, except for one who is actually better then the kids who do the extra english classes and are studying it alot more then her.

Now i was wondering does this make sense, or atleast explain what i want to say.

皆さんの日曜日はてんもんかに行ったらどうですか

I want to say "Would you all like to go to tenmonka on sunday?"

Since i never learnt how to invite people to things or ask them to come etc, this was the best i could do with a dictionary and some grammar websites.

Thanks.

Right now it's kind of "Why don't your sundays go to Tenmonka?"

You want to say "皆さん, 日曜日にてんもんかにいきますか?"

[Urban~Ninja]

Right now it's kind of "Why don't your sundays go to Tenmonka?"

You want to say "皆さん, 日曜日にてんもんかにいきますか?"

I was well aware of how to say it that way, but thanks for trying to help, im more or less looking to make it more invitational. Instead of blunt, like that.

[羽之助]

How about おい、皆、日曜日はてんもんかに一緒に行けばどう思う？？

[Tibs]

I really need japanese language packs.

[Badfish]

I was well aware of how to say it that way, but thanks for trying to help, im more or less looking to make it more invitational. Instead of blunt, like that.

Well, if you want it more casual

みんな, 日曜日てんもんか行く?

[mikem]

"皆さん, 日曜日にてんもんかにいきますか?"

On Sunday will you go to Tenmonka? (ie. is that already in your plans)

How about:

皆さん、　日曜日はてんもんかへ行きませんか？

"Won't you go to Tenmonka on Sunday?"

That's more of the invitation pattern you learn in school.

Edit: Guess I should take less time to reply. 羽之助's is much better.

[Urban~Ninja]

Thanks to both 羽之助 and Mike that was what i was looking for, badFish thanks for trying to help, but as i said i wanted to Invite them, not to ask if they were already going, but thanks none the less.

[羽之助]

Keep in mind that anything I suggest will sound girly.

And search "Teh Japanese Thread #2" for instructions for installing language packs.

[Urban~Ninja]

Keep in mind that anything I suggest will sound girly.

And search "Teh Japanese Thread #2" for instructions for installing language packs.

I dont mind, they already have it in their heads that im Cute...me saying this will just increase said levels....they also have custom to me doing many random poses when i say things....i try my darndest to embarrass them.

[atnak]

Edit: Guess I should take less time to reply. 羽之助's is much better.

Surely, 羽之助 was kidding with that "おい、皆、日曜日はてんもんかに一緒に行けばどう思う？？" suggestion!?

Urban >
I don't know how close to these people you are, or whether you've used casual or polite speech to speak to them up till now, but your English phrasing ("Would you" instead of something like "Do you wanna") suggested you wanted a polite version.

The initial "おい、" is a big no-no if it's intended to be polite, and the "...行けばどう思う？" part I wouldn't use even with friends. (Apologies you seriously meant this 羽之助.) (Actually, the "行けばどう思う？" part as an invitation is a phrasing I've never heard of. Maybe it's acceptable in your area.)

Badfish's first reply was pretty close. Just the ending needed a little altering:　行きませんか？

[羽之助]

It does work incredibly well sometimes, doesn't it.

And I assume U-Ninja acts friendly enough with these people and acts funny most of the time, so that's why I gave my suggestion. I also assume he won't say it in a dead-tone serious voice which would indeed make the おい something to scare people away with.

[Urban~Ninja]

Surely, 羽之助 was kidding with that "おい、皆、日曜日はてんもんかに一緒に行けばどう思う？？" suggestion!?

Urban >
I don't know how close to these people you are, or whether you've used casual or polite speech to speak to them up till now, but your English phrasing ("Would you" instead of something like "Do you wanna") suggested you wanted a polite version.

The initial "おい、" is a big no-no if it's intended to be polite, and the "...行けばどう思う？" part I wouldn't use even with friends. (Apologies you seriously meant this 羽之助.) (Actually, the "行けばどう思う？" part as an invitation is a phrasing I've never heard of. Maybe it's acceptable in your area.)

Badfish's first reply was pretty close. Just the ending needed a little altering:　行きませんか？

I didnt really plan on using the おい part, that seemed kinda creepy, but the majority sounded good to me, also im quiet good friends with these girls considering i hang with them nearly everyday after school.

[atnak]

And I assume U-Ninja acts friendly enough with these people and acts funny most of the time, so that's why I gave my suggestion.

Ah yes. If a native Japanese guy says it with perfect accent, he'd probably get a good whack on the head.

If U~N says it, he'd no doubt get the laugh of everyone around him and friendly advises on how to say it properly. Everyone would likely appreciate the humour he brings in. (The benefits to being "gaikokujin" and having a not-all-perfect accent..)

U~N>
行ったらどう(ですか)？ means "Why don't you go" and won't work as an invitation.

Any one of 行く？ 行きたい？ 行こっか？ 行こうか？ should work to varying degrees. (The first is the most straight-forward. The second is more of a question implying an invitation. The last two, you need to be quite friendly with the other person to use.)

[Urban~Ninja]

I see, well this is quiet a learning curve for me considering i dont know alot of the verb forms, thanks for the advice!

So would it be best i maybe said something alot the lines of 皆さん、日曜日はてんもんかに一緒に行きたいどう？followed up by striking my Hulk Hogan Pose which will set of two of the other 5 girls to do the exact same thing.....its funny i have groupies!

[羽之助]

I will give you 10 points for saying that (grinning). It's gramatically incorrect but it will give you huge laughs especially with your pose.

I just don't think ～たい is used right before どう, ever. Just 行きたい would be good. Or maybe 行くかどうかどう思う？(What do you think about going or not?)

But keep it simple, short, sweet, and ... subarashii.

[Urban~Ninja]

I will give you 10 points for saying that (grinning). It's gramatically incorrect but it will give you huge laughs especially with your pose.

I just don't think ～たい is used right before どう, ever. Just 行きたい would be good. Or maybe 行くかどうかどう思う？(What do you think about going or not?)

But keep it simple, short, sweet, and ... subarashii.

Well i have writtten them all down, and will probably try a few with different poses and such, you know making kids laugh, its what i do.

[Pierrot le Fou]

My suggestion:

日曜日に天文家に行こうか？

(Let's go to tenmonka sunday)

[Pierrot le Fou]

Bartender's suggestion (native Japanese speaker):

今度の日曜日、ひまか？天文家にいかへんか？

(kondo no nichiyoubi, himaka? tenmonkan ikahen ka?)

(free next sunday? why not go to tenmonka?)

Switch to 行かないか？ if you're not in kansai

[Urban~Ninja]

Bartender's suggestion (native Japanese speaker):

今度の日曜日、ひまか？天文家にいかへんか？

(kondo no nichiyoubi, himaka? tenmonkan ikahen ka?)

(free next sunday? why not go to tenmonka?)

Switch to 行かないか？ if you're not in kansai

Well ive got abut 5 different ones to try, but i guess i'll take a shot at em all, purely to help my Japanese, and also so i can get my friends to come.....fun poses for all, near the end of my trip i'll post me and my friends doing poses.....Hulk Hogan BROTHER!

[sophisticated_monkeys]

今度の日曜日、ひまか？天文家にいかへんか?
I love that I knew that was Kansai before you said it, hehe. *makes a note of it* Do the people there care if foreigners speak in Kansai ben? If I come back here again, I'm hoping to study anywhere there so I can pick up the dialect.

[Urban~Ninja]

I love that I knew that was Kansai before you said it, hehe. *makes a note of it* Do the people there care if foreigners speak in Kansai ben? If I come back here again, I'm hoping to study anywhere there so I can pick up the dialect.

I dont think speaking different dialects impares you that much, they will probably mention your style but thats about it.

[羽之助]

If you read the books/manga called "My Darling is a Foreigner", the protagonist has gotten out of a few situations because he speaks in Kansai, which automatically redirects Japanese brain pathways past the "Big Scary Gaijin" block centre to the "Only Osakans Speak Kansai" acceptance platform.

[Tibs]

If there's one thing I ever learned, it's to imitate fictional characters wherever possible.

[Urban~Ninja]

If there's one thing I ever learned, it's to imitate fictional characters wherever possible.

Im sure imatating superman has lead to more deaths then any other imatation in the world.

But Thanks to everyone who helped!

[MNJetter]

Try it in Tsugaru-ben......
さぁ、日曜、てんもんかはどんだ？

That will probably not get so many laughs as it will confused looks. :D

[羽之助]

Or after they agree:

よし、行くべぇ！！

You could just speak entirely in Aomori-ben, though. Nobody knows what the f*ck they are saying.

[MNJetter]

んだな。
へば、だれもわがなねんだびょん。だはんで、東京にいだら、表人語でつってたほうはいいんでし ょ。

...and then people wonder why it's taking me a long time to become conversational in standard Japanese.　（≧∀≦）

[andrewt]

なんやって？
天文家。。。　それは天文の家なのか？
私にとっては。。。それは。。ちょっとへんみたいです。:boggled:

[Niff]

Speaking of conversational Japanese.. how do you say "do you want to go out sometime?" really casually? I don't mean to topic hijack, I just want to keep forum clutter down. :P

EDIT: Kana only please.. I can't read kanji yet. :(

[eledoremassis02]

That really sucks that your leaving? How was your time there? I really need to catch up with my japanese. I wish I could help you but it seems like you getting much help already.

[darje]

Speaking about dialects... anyone know if Fukui-ben is all that different from average Japanese? I hear it's not so much the words but the pronunciation.

[MNJetter]

Can you describe what Fukui-ben sounds like?

[kilreli]

dunno if anyone said this, cause i didnt quite read the whole thread...even though its onyl 2 pages. but anyways, if you say "行きませんか", instead of "行きますか", it should be more polite.

Its like saying "Won't you go*insert the rest of the sentence here*"

For example: "店に一緒に行きませんか？" = "Won't you go to the store with me?"

i may have made a mistake somewhere...im no pro :duh:

[羽之助]

んだな。
へば、だれもわがなねんだびょん。だはんで、東京にいだら、表人語でつってたほうはいいんでし ょ。

...and then people wonder why it's taking me a long time to become conversational in standard Japanese.　（≧∀≦）

OUCH.

Wow. But are you conversational in Shariki-Ben?

And I think you mean 標準語 ひょうじゅんご, or as the rest of us call it, Tokyo Forced Down our Throats Imperial Japanese.

[Scott]

共通語 for me.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

I'm really stupid, so I would have said:

皆、日曜日にてんもんに行きたいでしょうか？

[atnak]

ねーねー、今度の日曜日天文館行こうよ。

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

ねーねー、今度の日曜日天文館行こうよ。

But that's really informal... but then again... He may consider himself real good friends with these people, and may use that... But I'm stupid, so what would I know? Why do I even bother arguing, hahaha~

[Dahvood]

Speaking of conversational Japanese.. how do you say "do you want to go out sometime?" really casually? I don't mean to topic hijack, I just want to keep forum clutter down. :P

EDIT: Kana only please.. I can't read kanji yet. :(

「いつか、でかけたい？」とおもう。。。　（いつか、出掛けたい？）

That's probably a little literal though haha. I'm sure someone will correct :D

[atnak]

But that's really informal...

But U~Ninja seems to be willing to try anything. :)

Ok, here's one a little less casual:

皆様、今度の日曜日に私（わたくし）とご一緒に天文館へ行かれませんか？

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

But U~Ninja seems to be willing to try anything. :)

Ok, here's one a little less casual:

皆様、今度の日曜日に私（わたくし）とご一緒に天文館へ行かれませんか？

Muahahahahahaha~ that's like UBER formal~ hahahahaha~ whaa~ I didnt even know anyone would ever use 皆様~ hahahaha~

[Urban~Ninja]

Muahahahahahaha~ that's like UBER formal~ hahahahaha~ whaa~ I didnt even know anyone would ever use 皆様~ hahahaha~

I dont want to be overly formal, I see this group as a probably the best friends i have made on Exchange, purely because they are always talking to me and hanging with me and helping me, so i see them as friends and dont want to sound to formal.

I asked them today anyways, there was laughs followed up by Hulk Hogan poses and they said they would ask their parents if they were allowed since its a during school term, but i assume they will be allowed to.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

I dont want to be overly formal, I see this group as a probably the best friends i have made on Exchange, purely because they are always talking to me and hanging with me and helping me, so i see them as friends and dont want to sound to formal.

I asked them today anyways, there was laughs followed up by Hulk Hogan poses and they said they would ask their parents if they were allowed since its a during school term, but i assume they will be allowed to.

Yay~ Lucky you~

I'm hoping on going on an exchange soon, at the school we visited in Kyoto when I was there, there's a scholarship for one person from my school, and I'm the only one who's been told about it, so I'm hoping I'll be able to go on that~ I am really worried though, because I'm so bad at Japanese >___< and when we went there in April, we spoke harly any Japanese at all... it was actually annoying...

[MNJetter]

OUCH.

Wow. But are you conversational in Shariki-Ben?

Hahahahahahaha :rofl:

good one.

Kinda. I can understand it, if people are willing to slow it down a little bit for me. And according to a guy at my office, I almost had a hang of it in that sentence I posted. It's getting to the point where it sounds more natural than standard Japanese, but since standard is the one I'm studying, my vocabulary is mainly textbook stuff.

And I think you mean 標準語 ひょうじゅんご, or as the rest of us call it, Tokyo Forced Down our Throats Imperial Japanese.

Yes, I did. That's what I get for typing fast in IME without looking at the kanji when I pressed the spacebar. But you know what's funny? Takahashi-sensei didn't notice it either. I will have to point this out to him during lunch tomorrow. :stirthepo

[Urban~Ninja]

Yay~ Lucky you~

I'm hoping on going on an exchange soon, at the school we visited in Kyoto when I was there, there's a scholarship for one person from my school, and I'm the only one who's been told about it, so I'm hoping I'll be able to go on that~ I am really worried though, because I'm so bad at Japanese >___< and when we went there in April, we spoke harly any Japanese at all... it was actually annoying...

OH god i hate it, i try to speak Japanese and they truy to speak English to me, i have told many people just to use Japanese and if i dont understand it then go to English but at first use Japanese, if you explain it to them at the beginning of the Exchange they will speak more Japanese to you. Dont worry about Bad Japanese, after about 2 months you start to just pick up and learn everthing that is thrown at you.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

OH god i hate it, i try to speak Japanese and they truy to speak English to me, i have told many people just to use Japanese and if i dont understand it then go to English but at first use Japanese, if you explain it to them at the beginning of the Exchange they will speak more Japanese to you. Dont worry about Bad Japanese, after about 2 months you start to just pick up and learn everthing that is thrown at you.

I know! It's like they thought they weren't allowed to speak in Japanese~ Though we went to Matsumoto and stayed in a small town there, and they were a bit better than in Kyoto or Tokyo... But I'd still prefer to live in Tokyo, I loved it so much there.

I'm really scared that I won't just pick it up like everyone says I will. Because... I don't know.... hahaha~ I just don't think I will.

[atnak]

OH god i hate it, i try to speak Japanese and they truy to speak English to me

You're one person wanting to improve your Japanese in a country of 127,463,611 (http://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+japan) people wanting to improve their English. ;)

[Urban~Ninja]

You're one person wanting to improve your Japanese in a country of 127,463,611 people wanting to improve their English.

Yeab but still......i wish they would put the effort in to realise im here to learn as well.

I'm really scared that I won't just pick it up like everyone says I will. Because... I don't know.... hahaha~ I just don't think I will.

Oh you will, but it takes about 2 months before it kicks in and you learn more things, in the first 2 months i mostly picked up vocabulary words. Lotsa Vocab.

[羽之助]

You're one person wanting to improve your Japanese in a country of 127,463,611 (http://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+japan) people wanting to improve their English. ;)

No dice. The Universal Law of Exchange states that when you Y in country X to learn the language, Citizens of X MUST speak the national language N to you if their command of your mother tongue M is less than your command of language Y.

So if MX < NY, where X is Japan and N is Japanese, they are not allowed to speak English to you during designated periods of leaning (i.e. come back to my room and drink). Failure to observe the Law results in unequal exchange.

Just tell them you grew up at a U.S. base in Germany and only speak Bavarian dialect German.

[Niff]

「いつか、でかけたい？」とおもう。。。　（いつか、出掛けたい？）

That's probably a little literal though haha. I'm sure someone will correct :D

de-to shimasenka? Is one I was told as well. I think I'll try both. XD

(but I'm connfused with that one. doesn't sen make it a negative? shouldn't it be shimasuka?)

[The Republic]

OK OK
how do i get a japanese lang pack!?!

[MNJetter]

OK OK
how do i get a japanese lang pack!?!

Do you have Windows XP?

[Dahvood]

de-to shimasenka? Is one I was told as well. I think I'll try both. XD

(but I'm connfused with that one. doesn't sen make it a negative? shouldn't it be shimasuka?)

Yeah, it does make it a negative, but it can be used as an invitation. Fairly sure its been talked about in this thread already. Basically the equivalent of saying something like "won't you ~~?"
「デートしますか」 is "are you going on a date?" which is probably not what you're after :)

also, 「デートしないか」 is a casual form of 「デートしませんか」

[羽之助]

OK OK
how do i get a japanese lang pack!?!

Search for a thread called "Teh Japanese Thread #2" and "language pack" or "japanese install". Instructions for most OS can be found in there.

[mikem]

I kind of forgot what this thread was about along the way but ...

If you want them to speak Japanese back generally all you have to do is start with Japanese. (Very few people are immune to this.) If you want them to keep speaking Japanese you need to learn to ううん、ええと、はい with the best of them.

[MNJetter]

The surefire way to get people speaking Japanese to you is to pretend you don't understand their accent when they speak English. It plays against the elevated sense of self-consciousness that has been drilled into Japanese society, and they will be too embarrassed to use English with you. Works well with strangers...but I would tread lightly with friends, because it could result in them being self-conscious with you in general, not just where language is concerned.

[Scott]

Search for a thread called "Teh Japanese Thread #2" and "language pack" or "japanese install". Instructions for most OS can be found in there.

http://www.outpostnine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4992

I went over instructions there for the language pack and IME, I believe.

[Niff]

Yeah, it does make it a negative, but it can be used as an invitation. Fairly sure its been talked about in this thread already. Basically the equivalent of saying something like "won't you ~~?"
「デートしますか」 is "are you going on a date?" which is probably not what you're after :)

also, 「デートしないか」 is a casual form of 「デートしませんか」

Thank you good sir :D

[Urban~Ninja]

A new thing for Alex to learn YAY.

Ok i know that the forms for saying the location of a general item is.

PLACE に ITEM/NOUN　が　ありますorいます

or

NOUN/ITEMは PLACE に ありますorいます

BUT what if i want to be more detailed and say something like:

The Book inside the box thats ontop of the table?

I had a shot at it but it looked horribly wrong.

[Scott]

te-buru no ue ni aru hako no naka ni wa hon ga aru...

There's a book in the box that's on top of the table...

te-buru no ue ni aru hako no naka ni aru hon

a (the) book that's in a box that's on top of the table -- not a complete sentence.

I could be wrong too. Actually, am quite probably wrong.

Edit: Wow, fixed a weird typo that made the entire thing make no sense. Go Scott.

[Urban~Ninja]

Thanks, im gonna write this down as the form so far.

Indeed Go Scott Indeed.

[Scott]

The thing is... it's not really a locational form or anything, I'm just using clauses. Your original phrase was a set of clauses where you had eliminated "that" -- I can't remember the actual term for them, though. Hidden clauses?

[Urban~Ninja]

Im not very good when it comes to Clauses and Particles, basically i can learn alot of Vocab but i cant ever work out Particles quickly, so when i try to form new sentances it takes me ages to work out what particles to use....damn particles.

[羽之助]

Particles can die.

[Scott]

Clauses are easy... just write a sentence and end it with a verb in citation form, then continue the primary sentence. You're basically just turning a sentence into a huge adjective.

I went to the store where my friend is waiting.
tomodachi ga matteiru omise ni ikimashita.

I read the book that I found.
mitsuketa hon wo yomimashita.

I can't really give advice on particles since I'm not terribly clear on wa and ga either.

[Urban~Ninja]

Wa and Ga mess me up alot

as does

(w)o and ni, but im getting better with them.

[Scott]

'wo'? It just marks an object... as for 'ni', just think of it as 'in' or 'on'.

[MNJetter]

te-buru no ue ni aru hako no naka ni wa hon ga aru...

There's a book in the box that's on top of the table...

te-buru no ue ni aru hako no naka ni aru hon

a (the) book that's in a box that's on top of the table -- not a complete sentence.

You're not wrong, but it doesn't have to be quite that complicated.

In English, would you ever really say "the (or there is a) book that's inside the box that's ontop of the table?" Or would you be more likely to just say "the(/there is a) book in the box on the table"

The Japanese would understand the meaning if you left out the words for "top" and "middle," leaving you with:

teeburu no hako ni aru hon (the book that's in the box on the table)

or

teeburu no hako ni hon ga arimasu. (there is a book in the box on the table)

Literally spoken, "teeburu no hako" means "the table's box," but if I say it in a sentence, it doesn't indicate a possession in terms of belonging, but more in terms of relationship. Unless there is also a box under the table, or the box that was used to ship the table to your house is still in the room, it will mean you are referring to the box that is in contact with the table somewhere.

[Urban~Ninja]

Thanks for clearing that up MN.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

I don't underestand why hon is after aru. Shouldn't aru be the sentence ender? or is that incomplete and should really read aru hon desu?

[Dahvood]

its being used as a noun modifier.

teeburu no hako ni aru hon ha aoi desu.
about the book in the box on the table, it's blue.

aoi hon ha teeburu no haku ni aru
the blue book is in the box on the table.

see the difference?

~~aru hon desu wouldn't really make sense... i don't think...
well, maybe it would.
"it's the book in the box on the table."

*shrug*

[Faumdano]

Wa and Ga mess me up alot

as does

(w)o and ni, but im getting better with them.
The more you think of them in as general a way as possible the better.

'wa' - sets a theme or overriding focus for the sentence/set of sentences. (a very versatile particle really. The only way to get a really good feel for it is to do lots of reading)

'ga' - singles out something / limits what you're talking about

'wo' - object for transitive verbs. Used with locations for "through" or "from"

'ni' - a verbal arrow if you will. It specifies some sort of target. Also used for a few other things like the agent in passive sentences or the target in causative sentences. (you might also be able to mentally bend this into the concept of a target but...)

It really isn't all the useful to memories sentence 'patterns' in my opinion. Rather, get a feel for how to use each of the particles in general.

Anyhow, that's enough of my random thoughts on this subject...

[Faumdano]

its being used as a noun modifier.

teeburu no hako ni aru hon ha aoi desu.
about the book in the box on the table, it's blue.

aoi hon ha teeburu no haku ni aru
the blue book is in the box on the table.

see the difference?

~~aru hon desu wouldn't really make sense... i don't think...
well, maybe it would.
"it's the book in the box on the table."

*shrug*
aru hon desu

would be interpreted as a completely different 'aru'. That is, the one that means "some / a certain / some specific" similar to the article 'a/an' in english.

aru hon desu
There is/it is some/a certain book.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

its being used as a noun modifier.

teeburu no hako ni aru hon ha aoi desu.
about the book in the box on the table, it's blue.

aoi hon ha teeburu no haku ni aru
the blue book is in the box on the table.

see the difference?

~~aru hon desu wouldn't really make sense... i don't think...
well, maybe it would.
"it's the book in the box on the table."

*shrug*

Oh, I get it~ thanks~

[atnak]

I'm by no means an expert, but here're my observations of the language.

Usually, objects in containers aren't referred to as "にある～" but rather "の中（なか）の～", "の中にある～" or "に入（はい）っている～"。　The just "にある～" phrasing is used when the thing is on at platform or at a location. (e.g. 棚（たな―shelf）にある仏像（ぶつぞう―statue of Buddha）。 京都（きょうと―Kyoto）にある和菓子屋（わがしや―japanese confectionery store）。)

Also.

"テーブルの箱（はこ）" often means "the box in which the table came in".

So:
"テーブルの箱の中にある～" could mean, in neutral context, probably not what you intended it to mean.

I'd go with this myself:

テーブルの上（うえ）の箱に入っている本（ほん）～

[Scott]

haitteiru implies that it was put into the box by someone, I think... not that it's the book that's in the box.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

Wouldn't something like　中、ある本　Be better than 入って？

[atnak]

haitteiru implies that it was put into the box by someone, I think...
Not sure to what extent it has that meaning, I've always used for the plain "so and so is in such and such".

These sound normal to me:

コップに水（みず）が入っている。
In a cup there is water.
くつ（shoes）にすな（sand）が入っている。
There's sand in my shoes. (But not necessarily put there by someone.)

There's a similar version: "入（い）れてある" which explicitly means what you said. (Was put there (intentionally) by someone.)

Wouldn't something like　中、ある本　Be better than 入って？
Don't know how that one works. "箱の中、ある本" doesn't sound quite right.

[～いらっしゃいませぇ～]

Don't know how that one works. "箱の中、ある本" doesn't sound quite right.

hahaha~ don't mind me, I was guessing.

[Urban~Ninja]

Just to make sure, if im not talking about it being, ontop of, underneath of, inside of etc.

But im saying "The book is left of the table" as in its on the left side of the table, would i say:

テーブルのひだりにほんがあります

Thanks

[MNJetter]

Usually, objects in containers aren't referred to as "にある～" but rather "の中（なか）の～", "の中にある～" or "に入（はい）っている～"。　The just "にある～" phrasing is used when the thing is on at platform or at a location. (e.g. 棚（たな―shelf）にある仏像（ぶつぞう―statue of Buddha）。 京都（きょうと―Kyoto）にある和菓子屋（わがしや―japanese confectionery store）。)


Reall? But Japanese people usually snicker when I specify ～の中 or ～の上 on things that are obvious anyway. Conversely, in ten months of living here, I think I have yet to hear that particular phrase from a Japanese person. On retrospect, I agree that haitteiru is the best verb to use. Aru sounded unnatural, but I couldn't figure out what the better one was.

I think the whole "on top of" or whatever is more a product of context than anthing. Yeah, in a textbook, you'd find テーブルの上の箱, but in real life, の上 would probably replaced by a finger pointed at the table being talked about.

It's like......if I pointed to a table that had a box on it and no other boxes around, and told my boyfriend "there is a book in the box that is on top of the table," he would probably give me an amused grin and say "as opposed to the other boxes?"

Urban Ninja: Yes, you would.

[Urban~Ninja]

Urban Ninja: Yes, you would.

Thank Yee, my thick folder of study notes just made 50 different topics, thanks to everyone help on the last 2 with invites and location of objects

Thank Yee!

[atnak]

Reall? But Japanese people usually snicker when I specify ～の中 or ～の上 on things that are obvious anyway.
Theory vs. practice. :)

Grammatically, a phrasing without "～の上" and "～の中" can be ambiguous because "AのB" tends to indicates possession rather than "A on top of B", and "AにあるB" tends to mean "B at A" rather than "B inside of A".

In practice, it's as you've said.

FWIW, I usually say it with the "～の上"s and "～の中"s when leaving them out would make it ambiguous. Haven't noticed any snickering yet. :) When the words are accompanied by finger pointing, I always just use "あれ", "あそこ", "あの", etc.

[MNJetter]

In practice, it's as you've said.

Indeed. Which, as I said in my first post, is why I mentioned anything in the first place. :P

I thought I had made it clear that "in practice" versus textbook grammar is what I was talking about. Which means that we're on the same page, really.

FWIW, I usually say it with the "～の上"s and "～の中"s when leaving them out would make it ambiguous. Haven't noticed any snickering yet.

When they're ambiguous, yeah. I do that too. But if there is one table in the room, and one box on the table, like I said in my first post, unless there is also a box under the table or unless the box that shipped the table happen to also be in the same room.......y'know. Pretty cut and dry.

[Urban~Ninja]

Once again to avoid making extra topics i come baring a question.

I need to tell my host family the following.

This Saturday is it ok if i go to my friends english school to meet her teacher and see the class, it goes from 5:20pm until 7:30pm. I will go to somewhere for dinner after the class.

Now i think i break it up into the following.

daidayoubi no tomodachi eigo gakkou ni itte moi desu ka. eigo gakkou go ji ni juu pun kara shichi ji han made.

As for going somewhere for dinner since i dont have my notebook on hand im gonna take a stab with:

bangohan ni tabru soko desu.

Any fixers would be thanked for. :innocent:

[Faumdano]

What you wrote without the time constraint... just add it after this.
土曜日、友達の英学校で、女さんの先生と会ったり、授業を見守ったりしに行ってもいいんですか ？
どようび、ともだちのえいがっこうで、おんなさんのせんせいとあったり、じゅぎょうをみまもったりしにいっ てもいいんですか？

After class I will go somewhere to eat dinner
授業の後、どこかに晩御飯を食べに行く
じゅぎょうのあと、どこかにばんごはんをたべにいく

Disclaimer: the above is probably grammatically sound but not necessarily natural.

[Chinpokomon]

No dice. The Universal Law of Exchange states that when you Y in country X to learn the language, Citizens of X MUST speak the national language N to you if their command of your mother tongue M is less than your command of language Y.

So if MX < NY, where X is Japan and N is Japanese, they are not allowed to speak English to you during designated periods of leaning (i.e. come back to my room and drink). Failure to observe the Law results in unequal exchange.


M= English Language
X= Japan
Y= Japanese Language
N= Japanese Language

English x Japan < Japanese x Japanese (Japanese squared?)

Edit: oops. that wasn't the last page, was it...

[Urban~Ninja]

What you wrote without the time constraint... just add it after this.
土曜日、友達の英学校で、女さんの先生と会ったり、授業を見守ったりしに行ってもいいんですか ？
どようび、ともだちのえいがっこうで、おんなさんのせんせいとあったり、じゅぎょうをみまもったりしにいっ てもいいんですか？

After class I will go somewhere to eat dinner
授業の後、どこかに晩御飯を食べに行く
じゅぎょうのあと、どこかにばんごはんをたべにいく

Disclaimer: the above is probably grammatically sound but not necessarily natural.

Much thanks homie.

[atnak]

I need to tell my host family the following.

This Saturday is it ok if i go to my friends english school to meet her teacher and see the class, it goes from 5:20pm until 7:30pm. I will go to somewhere for dinner after the class.

Are you asking for their permission or just giving them the heads up? (Are your host parents your guardians?)

You should probably shorten it and make it more to the point if you're going to say it in Japanese. If you take too long, they might get the impression you're asking them if it's alright to enter the school premises or something. (Which, unless they're somehow connected to your friend's school, would have no idea about.)

The minimal phrasing would be:今度（こんど）の土曜日（どようび）５時（じ）から８時（じ）頃（ごろ）までの間（あいだ）出（で） かけたいと思（おも）いますが、大丈夫ですか？

Is it alright if I go out from around 5 o'clock to 8 o'clock this coming Saturday? (Change 8 o'clock with when you'll return after having dinner.)

EDIT: On second thoughts, mine's a bit long and not really the kind of wording you'd use. Here's a simpler and probably more effective version:

今度（こんど）の土曜日（どようび）５時（じ）から８時（じ）まで出（で）かけていいですか？

[Urban~Ninja]

Well just asked my host mother and she said aslong as i have dinner and im home by 10pm im fine.

[羽之助]

M= English Language
X= Japan
Y= Japanese Language
N= Japanese Language

English x Japan < Japanese x Japanese (Japanese squared?)

Edit: oops. that wasn't the last page, was it...

Sigh. Even when I'm trying to be funny I still suck horribly at math. Did I really just defeat myself with my own equation?

[The Republic]

Delayed thanks for those who helped me with the language pack...

[Urban~Ninja]

Hey just gonna ressurect this bad boy for another translation based question, keeping it simplier then starting a whole new thread.

How would i got about saying these three phrases.

"I'll Be Back To Watch You Graduate!"

"Please Remember Me, I will always remember you!"

"I will miss you all ALOT!"

and just if you can since this is probably more difficult:

"Please try to become great at English and i will try to become great at Japanese. So we can have good conversations when i come back!"

Thanks

[羽之助]

1. あんた達の卒業式は絶対に見に来るよ！
２．僕の事を覚えて下さい。あんた達の事は忘れないから・・・
３．もう、皆に会えないようになってしまうのは・・・考えたくない (Ok, this one is hard.)
４．僕が戻るまでに英語を勉強して！僕は日本語を一生懸命勉強するから、面白い話しをしようと思っている！

Refinements, anyone?

[Urban~Ninja]

1. あんた達の卒業式は絶対に見に来るよ！
２．僕の事を覚えて下さい。あんた達の事は忘れないから・・・
３．もう、皆に会えないようになってしまうのは・・・考えたくない (Ok, this one is hard.)
４．僕が戻るまでに英語を勉強して！僕は日本語を一生懸命勉強するから、面白い話しをしようと思っている！

Refinements, anyone?

Thanks for the fast reply, its a good thing i claimed you in the RWPW

[羽之助]

Hurrah, I have net worth.

[Urban~Ninja]

Yep, Shamu, Pook and You are my claimed, one day i will trade you off for Az and such.

[kilreli]

Yep, Shamu, Pook and You are my claimed, one day i will trade you off for Az and such.
:( i want hane....:gloomy: :gloomy: :gloomy: :gloomy:
I claim crowley though...

[Crowley]

what the fuck?

[kilreli]

shut up you! get back in your box until i use you for my next OP9-mon match! Chinpokomon is the most feared or the competition...
gotta catch'um all OP9mon!
...neeed....sllleeeep....

[羽之助]

Crowley is mine.

[Crowley]

Guys, I appreciate the energy you're putting in to winning the gay-off and all, but now I'm just scared.

[羽之助]

Quiet you!

Aha, I have EIJI.