What about the children?

[Eddie Echoplex]

japanat pointed out a rather disturbing issue that, well, worries me.

As you know, I've a cousin working in Japan. His wife is pregnant (seven moths), and of course the kid will look a lot like his dad. Either in the skin, eyes or whatnot (I'm no genetists, so).

What kind of life/treament from others will this kid have to endure? I am indeed (as a good uncle should) worried. Though I'm sure my cousing will teach him a few good things, stuborness runs in the family and we're, in a sense, taugh to be like salmons when it comes to derogatory terms/treatment (you can thank my grandparents for this :) ). But still, one againts the nation is just too apalling.

[Monkey]

When someone is derogatory you jump in a river and swim upstream? Well it'll certainly confuse the hell out of them... :P


On a serious note, the kid should be fine. I've got a couple of friends who are half/half and raised in Japan, they seemed to have no troubles over there that I knew of.

[Grandiose Delusion]

I agree with Monkey, the kid will be just fine. Though some of the older generation have problems with Eurasians//other races, as Az has made clear in some of his articles, the Japanese seem generally more laid back about this now. I got a few buddies who are Eurasian and they seem to be living in Japan just peachy.

[PopCulturePooka]

I've heard that even to this day some schools will refused to take foreign looking children, or will do their very best to deny him enrolment.


But considering the Japanese education system, thats hardly a bad thing.

[Urban~Ninja]

Over my time with alot fo friends who are Half Japanese, Half Malayasian, Half Chinese etc you'll find if its a girl she probably will be average in height but will probably when she reaches 16-17 look alot better (Beuty-wise) then the other kids, and if a boy probably be alot more well built, maybe taller or just generally more buff, thus creating what would be a fairly popular kid.

There is one Half American girl at my school, and from what i can see she is actually very popular and everyone likes her. Sure they will be old Nei-saying grandparents of other children but they are just being themselves. If you can find a more progressive school, you will probably have no problems what so ever in enrolling them.

[grungy hamster]

Gawd, no more posting for me.

This will be my last post for the day.

[darje]

I agree with Monkey, the kid will be just fine. Though some of the older generation have problems with Eurasians//other races, as Az has made clear in some of his articles, the Japanese seem generally more laid back about this now. I got a few buddies who are Eurasian and they seem to be living in Japan just peachy.

"Halfies" (not my term >_>) seem to go in just fine with the general population. Going a bit above the average population, Mika Todd (ex-Hello Project singer) was Hawaiian born, half Aussie, half Japanese, and people seemed to like her just fine.

On to normal people, though, it's very uncommon to be given grief because of your ancestry, specially in this time and age. Your new nephew has very little to worry about, unless he by choice decides to be different. Also, is your cousin Mexican?

[Eddie Echoplex]

On to normal people, though, it's very uncommon to be given grief because of your ancestry, specially in this time and age. Your new nephew has very little to worry about, unless he by choice decides to be different. Also, is your cousin Mexican?

Yes, yes he is.

And about the whole salmon thing, It's like this: if someone or something's blocking you way, make your own :)

[japanat]

Caucasian or black mixed kids generally do fine, they're kakkoii. My older son gets teased some, his older sister beats them up, moves on. Seriously, it pretty much falls on the positive side. SE Asian mixed parentage can be either way, though.

I'm much more defensive than my kids are. When they come home and tell me someone said they're 'gaijin', I say that their father is, but they are Japanese.

With my girls, I'm more worried about stalking. The hentai, tentacle, rape (insert depraved adj here) porn here, plus the way they stand out, makes me a bit nervous.

[Badfish]

Despite some of the generally peachy assesment, the truth of the matter isn't so simple. In my experience, which goes throufh elementrary schools and annual summer trips, here's how I was treated. There are 2 groups that hapas in Japan will deal in general, the normal kids and the rascist douchebags. I had plenty of friends growing up, but I also got alot more teasing due to my skin color. It's how one deals with that situation that will determine how they'll grow up. Fortunately, I had my father's rather stocky European build, so I could fight off a physical attack (until I moved to America and discovered I also had my mother's Japanese height), and I didn't care much about verbal insults.

He will also get treated differently in general. Older ppl will be amazed he can speak Japanese, that he can behave "Japanese", and younger people will make asinine assumptions that may be good (potential plus in his mating viability) or may be bad (sorry dude, you look too white to come in here). People will assume he speaks English, and he might get a teacher that chooses to give a harder time to that one kid who will always be the nail sticking out (I had a teacher who casually asked my mom to die my hair darker so my reddish hair wouldn't stand out so much), and incidentally gave me what I felt was a harder time (though he also went after my best friend at the time, we were undeniably slackers).

I can't really say, but I'm sure of the fact that he will experience more racism as he grows older. But the Japanese aren't closet KKK's, and I'm sure the amount of shit he'll get will be outweighed by his experiences with friends.

I can say for sure he'll be treated differently, though. Trust me. Unless Japan has changed dramatically in 10 years, he will get teased alot, he'll get more attention from ppl, and probably girls will check him out more. People will make assumptions about him that are completely off base, and he'll have to deal with that. It'll suck that he will always get treated as an outsider by someone in that country.

Personally, I wouldn't want my kid to grow up in Japan. Not if you're a hapa.

[stsparky]

I worry about the schools and then the opportunities for girls. We're doing schools here I think.

[Urban~Ninja]

I worry about the schools and then the opportunities for girls. We're doing schools here I think.

I would assume aslong as he can read/speak/write/understand Japanese at the level of his class mates then they will accept him. Im sure if they are like my school will show off any students like that (the two Bi-lingual students get in every school photo shoot for anything.)

My friend who came over from Japan who is half Japanese went to school there for 3 years and he was accept easily and he was living out in Rural areas of Kyushuu. Then again you cant really tell he is Half Japanese, he has pure black hair and brown eyes + a tan. He said that some of the older kids gave him a hard time every now and again but he said Japanese teasing isnt as bad as Western Teasing.

Also i believe that alot of girls do enjoy guys who are part Japanese, makes them feel like they have exotic BF, or when they reproduce their children may have more height etc. This is just what i have read or heard though.

[MNJetter]

Sure they will be old Nei-saying grandparents of other children but they are just being themselves.

I love how you spelled "nay" in romaji. Teehee

Anyway, half-Japanese do tend to have a bit of notoriety. When I told them that my dad was born in Okinawa, the kids at one of my elementary schools went absolutely nuts. Then, when I told them it was just because my grandfather was an American army surgeon, they look like I'd just waved a plate of cookies in front of their faces and then told them they could never eat them.

[Nebosuke]

If your cousin's children will definitely experience some racism if they look different (and even if they don't, if it's known that one parent isn't Japanese). However, this isn't necessarily any different from anywhere else they might grow up in the US.

I grew up in Hawaii, and despite the fact that the culture is extremely ethnically diverse, and probably one of the most open and accepting societies in the world, racism still exists. I've been to school in both the western US and on the east coast, and found both to be incredibly racist*, even when many ethnic groups had large representative populations living in the same areas. However, most of the people are so used to it that they simply don't notice it at all, simply fail to recognize it as racism, or learn to live with it and move on. Being ethnically Japanese, I didn't experience any racism directed towards me at all when I visited Japan, but I did notice it around me.

Basically, I think you can expect your cousin's children to experience about as much racism as would the kids of a sole white family living in a predominantly black neighborhood (or vice versa) somewhere in the US. That is to say that they will be able to make friends and lead a satisfying life, but there will be constant subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) reminders, both inentional and incidental, that they are different. Perhaps they would experience less racism if they grew up somewhere in the US, but that would be a function of the representation of their ethnic group(s) in the area more than the fact that it's the US rather than Japan. For the most part, in my limited personal experience, people who move to Japan and subsequently consider Japan especially racist** do so because their ethnic group was a sizeable majority or significantly large minority where they grew up. Their experience in Japan is probably the first time they've found themselves to be part of a true minority, which can be a shocking experience.

*At least to someone who grew up in Hawaii.

**To be fair, even Japanese from Hawaii are typically shocked/amused by the amount of racism/cultural ignorance displayed by relatives from Japan. To quote my father, "Japan Japanese are some of the most racist f*ckers I've ever met". This coming from a guy who was chased down the streets during the Watts riots because he looked asian.

[Badfish]

If your cousin's children will definitely experience some racism if they look different (and even if they don't, if it's known that one parent isn't Japanese). However, this isn't necessarily any different from anywhere else they might grow up in the US.

I grew up in Hawaii, and despite the fact that the culture is extremely ethnically diverse, and probably one of the most open and accepting societies in the world, racism still exists. I've been to school in both the western US and on the east coast, and found both to be incredibly racist*, even when many ethnic groups had large representative populations living in the same areas. However, most of the people are so used to it that they simply don't notice it at all, simply fail to recognize it as racism, or learn to live with it and move on. Being ethnically Japanese, I didn't experience any racism directed towards me at all when I visited Japan, but I did notice it around me.

Basically, I think you can expect your cousin's children to experience about as much racism as would the kids of a sole white family living in a predominantly black neighborhood (or vice versa) somewhere in the US. That is to say that they will be able to make friends and lead a satisfying life, but there will be constant subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) reminders, both inentional and incidental, that they are different. Perhaps they would experience less racism if they grew up somewhere in the US, but that would be a function of the representation of their ethnic group(s) in the area more than the fact that it's the US rather than Japan. For the most part, in my limited personal experience, people who move to Japan and subsequently consider Japan especially racist** do so because their ethnic group was a sizeable majority or significantly large minority where they grew up. Their experience in Japan is probably the first time they've found themselves to be part of a true minority, which can be a shocking experience.

*At least to someone who grew up in Hawaii.

**To be fair, even Japanese from Hawaii are typically shocked/amused by the amount of racism/cultural ignorance displayed by relatives from Japan. To quote my father, "Japan Japanese are some of the most racist f*ckers I've ever met". This coming from a guy who was chased down the streets during the Watts riots because he looked asian.


It's a little different when you're a hapa. We're a reaaaaallly small minority EVERYWHERE. There is no place that is big on us. In America I think we number something like 2 million, which makes us one of the larger groups of "Asian-Americans", but still less than 1% of the US population. In Japan though, the number can't be more than 50,000, considering the number of foreigner's living there.

Its just not the same as being a full member of an ethnicity. Especially in a place like Japan, we get viewed as exotic, but the other way to look at it is that our existence goes against the natural order of Japan. We're anomalies. And because our group is so small, it's not like we have backup (compared to, say, Mexico's large mestizo population) or an established racial/ethnic identity. The closest thing I've found in America is groups on facebook called "Hapas are the hottest". Yes, the great unifying factor of my race is that we can say we're generally attractive, but that's a stereotype too.

I'm telling you, it's hard being a half Japanese half white kid in Japan. You get identity issues, you don't know who you really are as you grow up. Different people expect you to be different things, just based on your race. That's part of the reason why I say Japan is bad for hapas. You can't really explore your identities, their social structure is so rigid. The most basic way to be accepted is to say "Yeah, I know, my mom/dad is white/black/whatever, but I only identify with the Japanese". At least in America, you can stretch your wings so to speak, explore your heritages more freely, and really get a sense of where you belong in the world. And plus, more people to share your experience with.

I'm saying it's not as simple as saying "You're different, but you'll be fine." To the kid, there is issues with things like cultural identity (which makes up a large part of a person's psyche), and the inability to relate their particularly unique experience with others (even your non Japanese parent won't understand what its like to be inside the group yet perpetually an outsider). There is no community, so you're left stranded and alone to find your own way. I know it might sound like I'm overexaggerating, but seriously, these are important things that affect a persons life. People group themselves by ethnicity and culture everywhere ALL the time, and use their common experiences to form bonds. Imagine if you don't have that. It's not so bad in a society where a large percentage of the people are from somewhere else, places like California or Hawaii where multiculturalism is a fact of life, but in Japan, you could seriously be the only kid within a 50km radius that isn't fully Japanese.

I'm not trying to hate on Japan here. The big reason that I'm interested in going back to Japan with JET after college is to reconnect and explore my Japanese heritage. It's a part of me that I choose not to ignore or forsake. But it's a bad environment for mixed kids.

[Nebosuke]

I didn't mean to say that it's a good place and that they'll be fine and face no major issues. What I was trying to point out was that the reason they'll have to face some tough issues isn't because it's Japan in particular, but because of the underlying fact that they will be part of a very small racial minority. That is to say, things won't necessarily be magically better if they raise their kids in the US if they move to a place where, despite being in the US, their kids are in the minority (e.g., a 99% white community in the midwest).

The problems with possible identity crises, etc., are not going to magically disappear if you grow up somewhere else.

[Badfish]

I didn't mean to say that it's a good place and that they'll be fine and face no major issues. What I was trying to point out was that the reason they'll have to face some tough issues isn't because it's Japan in particular, but because of the underlying fact that they will be part of a very small racial minority. That is to say, things won't necessarily be magically better if they raise their kids in the US if they move to a place where, despite being in the US, their kids are in the minority (e.g., a 99% white community in the midwest).

The problems with possible identity crises, etc., are not going to magically disappear if you grow up somewhere else.

But in America, the experience is less so (I'm saying this from experience). Hapas as a group would be the second largest Asian American group after the Chinese, and a full 1/3 of Japanese-Americans are hapas. Since the population tends to be concentrated in California and Hawaii, it's even less of a issue. Add to that fact that the state of California doesn't have a single race that can claim a majority of the population, and it's a much different environment from Japan. I'm arguing that A)the concentrated population of hapas in western US gives the impression to kids there that they aren't so alone and B) in coastal states in America, there tends to be alot of ppl from all over the world(10% of ppl in America aren't American, to give you a sense of how big the immigrant population is), so it's a much smaller issue with being hapa. In Japan, you're the only non Japanese around. In America, you probably won't be the only hapa, and then there'll be the hundreds of non white kids in your school. And even amongst the white kids, it's not like European American is one big group. There are sub groups like Irish, Italian, French etc. just as there are Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. So even if the school is 99% white, there is a larger mix of cultures, insteand of one dominating culture as in Japan.

Also, I'd like to point out the one big significant factor. Americans accept others as American, even if they weren't born so. In Japan, you could be born in and raised Japanese, but if you don't look it, you can't be fully accepted. Americans regularly accept non-Americans as Americans under many different circumstances. Yeah, some will talk about America's racism, and it's a real problem to be sure, but I'd like to see another country on Earth work the kind of multicultural nation we have without inciting a dozen civil wars. By and large, Americans will probably talk to you with the assumption you are American if you are in America regardless of your race, unless you have some dead giveaway that identify you as otherwise. A non-East Asian looking individual will not get that in Japan.

Edit: To answer the midwest part more directly, let me put it this way. It's okay to be multiethnic and multicultural in America. You can be of Chinese and Dutch descent, respect and study the culture, and still be an American culturally, since the definition of American is much different from that of Japanese, which to the Japanese would mean "you look it, you act it, you live it, and ONLY it". I have no identity issues with being American, since being American doesn't encompass ethnic or cultural origin. It just means that I am a citizen of the US. On the other hand, I can speak Japanese fluently in kansai dialect, I can read and write Japanese, I have a Japanese name and passport, but I cannot be fully accepted as Japanese over there.

[羽之助]

My personal experience:
There is a half-American girl in one of my schools. She's popular, is class leader, and has a very vibrant personality. If there is teasing, her friends probably beat the offender up.

[japanat]

My kids get teased all the time! "Are you Japanese?", "Say something in English", some little cun...t was taking pics of my older son and saying 'kissho'. On the other side of the coin, he's one of the most popular players on his soccer team, and has some great, supportive friends who probably would kick the ass of anyone who seriously bothered him.

My oldest daughter has always been the class leader, she's in all the photos, now she's on the JHS basket(ball!!!) team. She's also the most uncomfortable when people stare, and surprised me when she ranked on a middle-aged fella for talking about her in front of her.

The younger two ditto.

But, it really isn't that much different from where I grew up, more a matter of degree. My best friend in elementary's father was Puerto Rican, and he caught a lot of shit. The one Korean girl was razzed mercilessly. And God help any physically-handicapped kid in an American school. I even got attacked by a guy because I was a better skier than he was!

The racism is real here in Japan, the identity issues are real. But I think that generally the physical violence is less (the ghetto schools give the US a run for its money). My kids will have to learn to deal w/assholes no matter where we live, no matter whether they were 'half' or whole, black/white/asian/martian.

A lot of how they feel, how they react, will depend on how we as a family support them, how they are with their friends. I probably (read that as definitely) will be a raging dickhead in their defense, no matter what country.

Hell, I told my son that if he starts a fight, he'll be grounded for 3wks. If the other kid starts it, and my kid fights back, he gets dinner at a restaurant or a new soccer ball. And if he defuses it , he gets the same.

(A bit rambling, but I have strong feelings on this one)

EDIT: The one thing that scares me is the Japanese kids' penchant for team bullying. It hasn't happened yet, and thankfully, the teachers in this town are really on the lookout for it.

[Nebosuke]

I think your experience, Badfish, are at least partly due to your having moved to America when you were older. Young children can be the most merciless racists. Some of the worst racism I've seen even comes from their own ethnic groups. For instance, the group most openly prejudiced against recently immigrated Filipinos in Hawaii is often 2nd+ generation Filipino Americans. The kids are insecure and feel the need to reaffirm to their friends that they're American, and not like the wierd new kid who talks funny and eats dogs. I've even seen hapa kids move to the US from Japan and get brutally persecuted by other hapas (and even 100% ethnically Japanese Americans) for the same reasons. By around middle school the kids have generally grown out of it, or at least realized that our society doesn't generally consider racism to be cool/acceptable, and whatever racism that remains is usually less blatant.

Again, this is from my own experiences, so your mileage may vary.

Edit:

By the way, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm sure you probably did experience more racism in Japan than you might have in many parts of the US. What I'm saying is simply that the cause isn't the fact that it's Japan so much as because you were a part of a vanishingly small minority--a situation that many still find themselves in, to some degree, regardless of the country in question. In short, it's not really fair to say that Japan is exceptionally racist as it is to say that its population is incredibly homogenous, both ethnically and culturally. Racism, while not acceptable, is basically inevitable in such a situation. If you were to move to America to escape racism you might be successful not because America is significantly less racist than Japan, but because you have a better opportunity to become part of the 'in' group in America rather than remaining one of the persecuted minorities.

[Yang]

my experience had a bit relation with the thread...

I had hard times in elemntary school when i was kid. The fact of being "half and half" is that if you have bad luck to study in foreigner country where every kids are native could be harsh...myself, i suffered bad treats from other kids just because i was "filthy halfie/foreigner".

...swear words and even isolation, were almost my bread of each day, from my classamtes cause " i was foreigner" and "i didn't belong to this place", the fact to have latin blood made me a more cheerful kid than the other kids and somehow that annoyed my classmates very much because i was always happy and that quality was very odd to them, but i got along with classamates girls wich it was a good thing and allowed me to make less shy, and the other point it was that they knew my mom was "from another spanish country but not from spain, but from that sucky continent called south america"...my physical aspect also didn't help at that time, i was the only kid very black haired instead of my classmates who were all blond and/or light colored hair...and as i know another language (spanish) that wasn't really helpfull...i never spoke my 2nd language at school because it was another reason for bad treatments...and yeah, i realized with the time it was sorta racism treatment....

anyway, i don't want to expose my whole school life here, but racism is everywhere, and the worst one is when it is applied by kids in school...it could impact your kid very deeply becuase it's harmful and may cause depression ...so as an advice, if it happens that to your kid, you as a good dad/mom should act and explain to your kids why they're acting like that with your kid...

i don't know how the things work anout that matter in japan about, but so far and judgin the post that had been posted previously is not that bad to have mixed blood kids in japanese schools...

I always thought to be mixed blood as an advantage, maybe it's a little fantastic thought but i believe it make a super human being with extra qualities, knowing another language (no less than 2) it's uber cool...myself i'm proud to be eurolatin....i think i have the qualities of both continent and stuff...

anyway that's what i have pretty much to say about it...