12 year old gives birth to baby [Archive]

Praetorian

05-12-2006, 12:27 PM

If the 15 year old was a virgin then i could probably understand (barely) the need to have sex with an 11 year old... but if he wasn't a virgin he should do community service or something for having sex with a minor

Seeing as he's 15 now he was probably 14 when it was concieved.

He's a minor himself too. How can you say that?

Besides, it'd be retarded to base laws on if the father was a "virgin" or not.

Judge: "So it turns out the boy was a virgin. I completely understand him having to prove his manliness to his mates, and him being desperate for sex at the extremely late age of 15. So will not be charged of anything in this consentual act of having sex."

What the smeg?

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 12:38 PM

Hey... it could happen... there are much much weirder laws than that floating around lol

I thought it would still be illegal whether the guy was a minor or not. I remember reading this story where these two kids lived next to each other and were 15, 16. They wanted to get married but they couldn't because they were underaged. The families really didn't mind and encouraged them. They'd been having sex for ages apparently and they decided to take pictures of themselves having sex. Stupidly, they sent the photos to be developed. The photo place called the cops on them and when the parents of both teens explained that they were allowed to have sex and wotnot the boy was sent to some kind of facility for teens for 6 months to a year because the girl was a minor... it didn't matter that he was a minor too. As far as they were concerned... he was older and therefore although they couldn't put him in prison they could do something to him.

The families were fighting it but i don't know what happened in the end

koku

05-12-2006, 12:51 PM

So she smoke 20 cigs a day. That's awesome for the baby.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 12:55 PM

that baby is definitly going to have asthma (the hell you spell that word)

And it's been my experience that when the child smokes that much at a young age the parent(s) most likely smoke too

MeneerDijk

05-12-2006, 01:01 PM

This quote is kind of typical:

A Catholic Church spokesman criticised "an increasingly promiscuous culture".

I critisice the catholic church for not condoning condoms.

Anyway, it's just sad that an 11 year old kid goes out to have unsafe sex and smoke 20 cigarettes a day. I guess the parents aren't a very good role model if they are so ok with the 11 year old daughter getting pregnant. The boy is equally responsible, but convicting him for it? maybe a mandatory sex ed course... but jailtime wont solve anything.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 01:07 PM

nah... definitely not jail time... he'll come out wanting more after being away from it for so long... I think he should be made to feel some kind of weight for his actions... most likely he isn't even going to be in the baby's life

O-Matic

05-12-2006, 01:10 PM

So she smoke 20 cigs a day. That's awesome for the baby.

So she's agains abortion but she smokes 20 cigs a day...

That's like maddox saying: I'm against abortion but for killing babys.

Serious thats some dipshit, I had asthma (the hell you spell that word) while I was a baby just because my FATHER was smoking....poor kid...

Kass

05-12-2006, 01:26 PM

This quote is kind of typical:

I critisice the catholic church for not condoning condoms.

Not true anymore. The Vatican changed its stance on condoms because of their necessity in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Anyway, it's just sad that an 11 year old kid goes out to have unsafe sex and smoke 20 cigarettes a day. I guess the parents aren't a very good role model if they are so ok with the 11 year old daughter getting pregnant. The boy is equally responsible, but convicting him for it? maybe a mandatory sex ed course... but jailtime wont solve anything.

The baby is screwed. His mother is a 12-year-old and in no way emotionally, mentally or financially equipped for motherhood. Physcially, she isn't doing that great either, in part because even though capable of pregnancy, the female body isn't fully developed at 11-12 and pregnancy is even more traumatic on the body at that age than as an adult. that age group is considered very high risk. Also, the kid smokes nearly a pack a day. She probably has the lung capacity of hamster. The baby will have all sorts of developmental issues with his respiratory system as a result, in addition to a highly likely low birth weight and the health issues associated with that.

His grandmother is an imbecilic fruitcake who doesn't know enough to talk to her kids or even monitor their activities. She let her 11-year-old daughter be out unsupervised at night. She didn't kick her daughter's butt for smoking. I'd bet good money her daughter drinks as well. This woman is the poster child for bad parenting and now she is going to be raising her grandchild, ensuring that she screws up yet another generation.

They need to remove that girl and her baby from that home as it is painfully obvious there is not adequate supervision.

Tenlaius

05-12-2006, 01:28 PM

dear lord...
the mother should get the shit knocked out of her
the girl sent to a more responsible family
the boy...i don't know

baffledMONKEY

05-12-2006, 01:28 PM

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 01:31 PM

Not true anymore. The Vatican changed its stance on condoms because of their necessity in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Ahhhh so all that BS they used to talk about how God doesn't want ppl or use condoms - or it's a sin to use condoms - or the bible says you shouldn't use condoms - was a smelly puddle of some japanese porno stars piss

Kaji

05-12-2006, 01:32 PM

Not true anymore. The Vatican changed its stance on condoms because of their necessity in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

News to me, link?

Orclover

05-12-2006, 01:38 PM

Not enough "ewwww" in the world to cover this.

MeneerDijk

05-12-2006, 01:58 PM

Not true anymore. The Vatican changed its stance on condoms because of their necessity in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

this (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/04/25/vatican.condoms.ap/index.html) is the latest news i heard about it. It's being reviewed, but the vatican hasn't changed it's stance yet. Maybe you have newer information. It would be a good thing if they would though.

I figure the baby has to be brought by c-section? I figure the resulting scars will give problems in a still growing body? This reminds me of lina medina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina) (wiki link, might not be work suitable) Who gave birth to a 5.9 lbs child at the age of 5. Quite a sad record when you think of it.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 02:00 PM

This reminds me of lina medina (wiki link, might not be work suitable) Who gave birth to a 5.9 lbs child at the age of 5. Quite a sad record when you think of it.

Say what now? that is just.... i don't know what it is... but it's that

Kiari

05-12-2006, 02:12 PM

:eyepop:

I feel bad for both the 12 year old and her baby, she clearly has had some piss poor parenting. Things like health, safety, self respect, responsibility and discipline are clearly not taught in that house.

One of my best friends had sex at 12... So I know it happens, and it's hard to control sometimes even for good parents. Oh, she knew enough to use condoms because her mother had drilled that into her head... but the second her parents found out (which took a whole of 1 day, they were very actively involved in her life) they picked up, moved out of Detroit, and literally didn't let her out of their sight except for school for the next two years.

The fact she's 12 and looking forward to motherhood tells me that she has NO bloody clue what she's about to step into. And who the hell is buying a pregnant 12 year old cigarettes?

The quote from the mother "I'm not ashamed of my daughter at all"... really sounds like she's fine with what's happened on a level beyond the whole "Well, it's good that she's keeping it and not having an abortion" idea being bandied about. She shouldn't be ashamed of the daughter too much though, she should be ashamed of herself.

Praetorian

05-12-2006, 02:18 PM

Remember that news can bring news in a very biased way.

And what I wonder - where is the father of the young mother in all of this?

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 02:20 PM

there probably isn't a father around.... sadly in this day and age that is all too common

Praetorian

05-12-2006, 02:31 PM

You can't assume that. You've been assuming too many things.

Kiari

05-12-2006, 02:33 PM

Very true Praet.

There's no way the news could cover the story in any other way. Society/the readership would never accept any kind of positive spin on a 12 year old mother.

But if she really is smoking a pack a day while pregnant... it does reinforce the angle the media is playing up and make me doubt it less.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 02:34 PM

If I can't assume that there isn't one around, then how can you assume that there is one around but he just don't care?

I assume... there for... I am

My assumptions are usually assumed when other ppl assume what my assumptions assume. But they are usually wrong when they assume what my assumptions assume when i assume the assumptions of the assumeees :eyepop: :P

mamba

05-12-2006, 02:43 PM

wow scotland, we just rule -_-. first its a NINE year old smoking heroin, then a pregnant 12 year old. wow how great are we!

Kass

05-12-2006, 02:50 PM

The story I heard was on news radio this morning. I was listening during my commute.

As for the health implications, a woman's body fully develops for child rearing during adolescence. That is when the mammary glands develop (the expanding chest line) and the hips widen (hence the curvy body). Women have wider hips for a reason--it's easier to carry and deliver a child with a wider birth canal.

Even if she starts developing early, the gradual process is years long, not weeks or months. A caesarean section might be the better option for her, though I don't know how that would impact her body's development.

C-sections now are much less damaging than they used to be. Improved surgical techniques make the incision smaller and resulting muscular damage less, but you are still surgically opening the body and slicing through muscle and the uterine wall. There will always be some sort of ramifications of that.

Ahhhh so all that BS they used to talk about how God doesn't want ppl or use condoms - or it's a sin to use condoms - or the bible says you shouldn't use condoms - was a smelly puddle of some japanese porno stars piss

No, it means they are changing their policy. Their stance on birth control, while unrealistic and restrictive, is not an unreasonable interpretation of several passages in the Bible. They are also not advocating their use for birth control, but for the prevention of disease. On many things, the Vatican is far behind, but on others, they've been ahead (precipitating the fall of the Iron Curtain for one).

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 02:53 PM

wow scotland, we just rule -_-. first its a NINE year old smoking heroin, then a pregnant 12 year old. wow how great are we!

That's nothing

There was a girl in kindergarten in switzerland where she was giving out candies to the other children. The teacher decided to take them back and give it to them later but because the candy was covered in white dust she became concerned... it turned out that the candy was covered in cocain.

It wasn't her fault though... her older brother was a dealer and her mother was hooked on cocaine... no father in the house.

Apparently it was supposed to be for one of her brothers "clients"

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 03:02 PM

No, it means they are changing their policy. Their stance on birth control, while unrealistic and restrictive, is not an unreasonable interpretation of several passages in the Bible. They are also not advocating their use for birth control, but for the prevention of disease. On many things, the Vatican is far behind, but on others, they've been ahead (precipitating the fall of the Iron Curtain for one).

Which passages? I asked a catholic person about this and they said that their priest(?) or whatever tells them how much children they can have as well.

Ok... so they change their policy... which still means that it can't be as bad as they say it is. They might continue to teach that it's a sin etc etc etc, but actions speak much louder than words. It's just opening up more doors for them to be called hypocrites (like they aren't called that already)

Kaze

05-12-2006, 03:06 PM

Well its not like she didnt see it coming. Least she is dealing with the outcomes in a adult fashion.
I don't know that keeping the child in that situation is an adult decision. The child is likely to be born with asthma because of her mother's selfish decisions. That is inescapable now, but at least the child’s future could be taken into consideration. Right now the girl is excited because she’s still at that age where most girls are babysitting and some are even still playing with dolls. She has this rosy view of being a mother based on that. It’s a very normal stage; my niece went through it when her sister’s daughter was born. That didn’t mean she was ready to be a mother. Almost every female on this planet has the natural instinct to mother something, whether it’s a child, a doll, or the family cat.

Look at how this mother has raised her daughter. If the child grows up in this situation and its behavior reflects that of the people around it (as it usually does), this girl could be a grandmother before her thirties. Not to mention the ill effects on its health, since it will either begin smoking at an early age, since this is obviously a permissive atmosphere, or it will suffer the consequences of second-hand smoke for the next eighteen + years. Also, people who allow their children to partake in such a lifestyle are often involved in various other activities that will end up in raising a child that thinks it’s normal to hate your children (no mother allowing her child to ruin her own health/life can truly care for the girl’s best interest).

Frankly, I think the best thing for the baby in this situation is to be put up for adoption to a loving, normal, sane home. I think by keeping the baby, this girl is indulging her rosy-colored fantasies and her mother is not only allowing her to ruin her life, but encouraging her as well. I think the mother should be charged with endangering a minor by allowing her daughter to run rampant. If you’re going to destroy your life, by all means do so, but don’t put an innocent child in harm’s way. She’s created a vicious cycle, and it’s already starting over with her daughter, who will do the same to her child, and so on, if nothing is changed. If the girl was going to make an “adult” decision, I think she would realize that she is in no way, shape, or form ready to be a parent and give the baby to someone who is. Even if she gives up and dumps the baby on its grandmother, it won’t do it any good, since the mother is obviously a sterling example of a parent.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 03:11 PM

You never know... the mother (grand-mother) could change and stop smoking, stop her daughter smoking and then they could live an exemplary(?) life.... it's possible... I guess

kilreli

05-12-2006, 03:22 PM

well...on a positive note....at least they dont have 9 year old girls posing for magazines that salarymen will buy......
but damn...the world is screwed up everywhere....

Kaze

05-12-2006, 03:23 PM

You never know... the mother (grand-mother) could change and stop smoking, stop her daughter smoking and then they could live an exemplary(?) life.... it's possible... I guess...if nothing is changed.
I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just highly unlikely. History has a tendency to repeat itself.

CNagy

05-12-2006, 04:02 PM

Which passages? I asked a catholic person about this and they said that their priest(?) or whatever tells them how much children they can have as well.

It's old testament, Genesis chapter 38, verses 8-10 I think. Judah and Shua have three children, but it concerns Er and Onan, their first two children. Judah finds a wife for Er, but Er is wicked and God slays him. Judah commands Onan to lay with Er's wife to produce off-spring for the now dead Er. Onan decides to let his seed hit the ground every time he lays with his brother's wife. In the eyes of the Lord, this was wicked and Onan was slain for it.

The church uses this passage to show that wasting one's seed is a sinful act, yet the motivation in the passage itself was greed; if Onan provided an heir for Er, he would cut short his own inheritance from his father Judah, since that is how succession worked back then. It is, then, a matter of opinion as to which act (or both) caused Onan to be wicked in the eyes of the Lord.

MFDub

05-12-2006, 04:03 PM

When I first clicked the link, I was ready for some kind of victimization story reminiscent of that case in Portugal(?) where a nine year old got pregnant from a 30 year old (supposedly it was consensual, but like the kid knew what she was doing at the time).

And then I find a situation where I try my hardest to feel sorry for the twelve year old, and I do, but not nearly as much as I was expecting to. This girl smokes how much daily? She had a "night out"? And her mother is just like "WHOOPEE!"? While morality is an extremely subjective matter, this family just seems to be...well...messed up. And then there's the 15 year old guy who really should have known better.

I guess I feel the worst for the baby about to be born.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 04:16 PM

It's old testament, Genesis chapter 38, verses 8-10 I think. Judah and Shua have three children, but it concerns Er and Onan, their first two children. Judah finds a wife for Er, but Er is wicked and God slays him. Judah commands Onan to lay with Er's wife to produce off-spring for the now dead Er. Onan decides to let his seed hit the ground every time he lays with his brother's wife. In the eyes of the Lord, this was wicked and Onan was slain for it.

The church uses this passage to show that wasting one's seed is a sinful act, yet the motivation in the passage itself was greed; if Onan provided an heir for Er, he would cut short his own inheritance from his father Judah, since that is how succession worked back then. It is, then, a matter of opinion as to which act (or both) caused Onan to be wicked in the eyes of the Lord.

Right... now the law of succession would have been given to them by the Lord. And they would have had to follow it. If they broke it, which Onan did, then that was his sin which is why it was mentioned that way. It doesn't say nothing about contraception... also... the same catholic person said that their priest person advocates pulling out.

There has to be another passage that clearly is about contraception because that one isn't about it.

Klilynkun

05-12-2006, 04:17 PM

Kiari

05-12-2006, 04:26 PM

I'm not sure if the expectation that the 15 year old boy 'should have known better' is really realistic.

I'd expect a 17/18 year old to know better... but if a 14/15/16 year old boy or girl isn't expected to 'know better' by the law when they're with a with an adult, resulting in the adult being charged with statitory rape... how is that exact same age group supose to 'know better' when it comes to a younger person (where they are then charged with rape).

They're either old enough to know what they're doing, or they're not.

Praetorian

05-12-2006, 04:28 PM

Klilynkun - there is an edit button, try to stop double posting. It's kind of annoying.

Heh, they removed the picture of the girl in the upper right corner of the story and inserted a picture of baby feet instead.

Ginner Ben

05-12-2006, 04:30 PM

I wonder why they didn't interview the 15 year old boy?

The fifteen year old has probably refused. It's going to ruin his life if his name becomes known. He will forever be the guy that got with a child.

Shamu

05-12-2006, 04:46 PM

This story makes me sad. But I can't say I'm really surprised :(
If my daughter came home (at the age of 12) and said she was pregnant, I'd be wondering where the hell I went wrong with my parenting.
I hope everything works out ok. Like Kass said, girls that young are just starting to develop and many "women" aren't even fully developed to carry children safely until their late teens/early 20's, so I hope both the mother and baby make it through this safely.:worried:

Jiant Flying Panda

05-12-2006, 05:02 PM

Youngest mother ever was a 5 year old girl.

I shit you not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

PS: Mods feel free to take down that link if you want to.

Langosta

05-12-2006, 05:05 PM

That link was already posted.. How is it possible to get pregnant at five though?

Jiant Flying Panda

05-12-2006, 05:07 PM

That link was already posted.. How is it possible to get pregnant at five though?

Her lady parts developed faster than usual.

And it was never proven who was the baby's father.

And oh. I didn't bother reading the whole thread so I missed the link.

CNagy

05-12-2006, 06:22 PM

Right... now the law of succession would have been given to them by the Lord. And they would have had to follow it. If they broke it, which Onan did, then that was his sin which is why it was mentioned that way. It doesn't say nothing about contraception... also... the same catholic person said that their priest person advocates pulling out.

There has to be another passage that clearly is about contraception because that one isn't about it.

You seem to be missing the point. While we can read between the lines as to why Onan did what it was he did, the direct reading would indicate that God slew Onan for spilling his seed onto the ground. And, in a very literal sense, Onan followed the rules. He laid with his brother's wife just as he was supposed to, the only thing he did was pull out before ejaculation.

8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

The Bible is all about interpretation. This passage is interpreted to mean that wasting one's seed is displeasing to the Lord. Pulling out is the oldest method of contraception. I don't agree with the ban on contraception, nor am I overly religious, but I've asked this question many times and this the passage that always comes up-- wasting one's seed, whether through masturbation or contraceptives, is seen as a sin.

Renommus

05-12-2006, 06:42 PM

I'd lol if she had an STD.

Kass

05-13-2006, 01:09 AM

Which passages? I asked a catholic person about this and they said that their priest(?) or whatever tells them how much children they can have as well.

Ok... so they change their policy... which still means that it can't be as bad as they say it is. They might continue to teach that it's a sin etc etc etc, but actions speak much louder than words. It's just opening up more doors for them to be called hypocrites (like they aren't called that already)

You're missing the point. The change has nothing to do with contraception. It is still objectionable to the Catholic Church to interfere with conception.

The change is soley based on the change in the health and welfare of humanity. HIV/AIDS has become a greater threat than anyone ever imagined, especially in Africa and to a lesser degree, other third world regions. To prevent the spread of disease, the re-evaluation of one form of contraception is warranted. They are not changing their philosophy--they still oppose all other forms of contraception.

When the Bible was written, this kind of epidemic didn't exist and could not be foreseen. Now the Church is dealing with a new (in comparison with the span of time since the Bible and the OT times) crisis. The Church has been slow dealing with this crisis and it is nice to see that they finally are, but it's in no way a change in their stance on birth control. This is a compromise to save lives.

Compromise is NOT the same as hypocrisy.

Scott Vincent

05-13-2006, 03:20 AM

:bang: Wow. This is just...why the hell would you have sex without a condom? I don't understand it. Teen pregnancy getting more and more common in my neck of the woods. I've known girls (won't say how many) who are pregnant or has had a baby. Many more has had sex. :eyepop: Guess what though? They don't believe in condoms either. :boggled:

Jon885

05-13-2006, 04:17 AM

Scott she was 11 years old, so I doubt she understood the concept of safe sex. I'm surprised girls that young are even interested in sex. Sad story, but fortuneately this isn't very common.

Langosta

05-13-2006, 04:23 AM

.. How do you even get a penis into a twelve year old girl? Or a five year old!?

It shouldn't fit.

Scott Vincent

05-13-2006, 04:23 AM

Scott she was 11 years old, so I doubt she understood the concept of safe sex. I'm surprised girls that young are even interested in sex. Sad story, but fortuneately this isn't very common.

I blame the MTV

Jon885

05-13-2006, 04:49 AM

I blame NASCAR.

MNJetter

05-13-2006, 06:43 AM

I think they should have sex ed earlier, or at least watch people closely for signs of early development and then take extra caution.

I started puberty at nine, when I was in the third grade, and had to go through almost eight months of having no idea what was going on before they started sex ed halfway through fourth. A lot of girls actually start puberty at a pretty young age.

Buckwheat

05-13-2006, 07:00 AM

It's odd to see this sort of thing happening in a modernized country. I'm sure young girls get pregnant all the time in undeveloped nations.

One thing this did bring to mind, I forget the name but a girl from Turkey has the distinction of being the youngest mother and grandmother on record. She gave birth at the age of 9 and became a grandmother at 19. I believe she was part of a prince's harem sometime in the 1800's.

yao_yao

05-13-2006, 09:33 AM

Guess what though? They don't believe in condoms either. :boggled:

I once had to write a research paper on something like that. The reason why is because of abstinence-only programs funded by the government. The United States is the only developed nation that has formal policies regarding appropriating funds to abstinence-only sexual education programs.

These programs openly tout misinformation. Examples include:
1) condoms do not prevent HIV, and other STDs
2) the proper usage of condoms involves over 10 steps, decreasing the spontanity of sex
3) there is a link between breast cancer and abortions
4) there is a link between promiscuity and the pill
5) the pill and abortions cause sexual disfunction (ie cannot orgasm)
6) abortions cause infertility and death and mental retardation
7) abortions cause birth defects in later children
8) abortions are so traumatizing that the woman experiences a "Post-Abortion Trauma" or "Post-Abortion Syndrome"

I will not dignify #1 or #2 with an answer.
#3 has been debunked by the American Cancer Society, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the World Health Organization
#4 has no factual basis, rather is just stereotyping
#5 abortion does not cause sexual dysfunction. However, the pill may have lack of a sexual drive as a side-effect. Doctors recommend switching to a different brand of the pill, which usually eliminates the problem.
#6 only in very very very rare cases. Usually if the abortions is very late. In fact, before 22 weeks (first trimester), abortions are 11 times safer than carrying a pregnancy to term.
#7 again, not true. In the past maybe, when abortion pills were crude, or if one used a "coathanger" or "ulcer drug" abortion
#8 is not recognized (ie regarded as junk as the person who first created these terms used data from an extremely biased group of people) by the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association

BTW, please notice that government supported organizations tout these falsehoods too, including the FDA (which continues to block EC) and the National Cancer Institute (which is actually the one that claims that some studies have shown a link between breast cancer and abotion, and some studies claim merely an increased risk). only non-government organizations have been saying no (American College of Obstricians and Gynecologists, American Cancer Society, the United Nations [World Health Organization and UNAIDS] just to name a few. Pretty much ALL the organizations I rattled off before)

In short, children and teenagers are being taught that since condoms and other contraceptives don't work anyway and may only make thigns worse... why use them?

sources are from my old report: Planned Parenthood, NARAL Pro-Choice America, and New York Times just to name a few.

Edit to keep from double posting:
You might also be interested to know that the United States has the second highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. Certain statistics are indicating that the United States is regressing to a developing nation in some respects.

Edit again:
Could someone post the entire article up? My usual ways to get around the Great Firewall of China have failed for some reason...

MeneerDijk

05-13-2006, 09:54 AM

IRT Yao_yao

Wow, that's such a short-sighted policy it makes me cringe. Maybe if they outlaw seatbelts, car crashes will stop happening? Or maybe if they outlaw bulletproof vests, people will stop getting killed? Hey! Maybe if they outlaw cough syrup, people will stop getting sick!

It is bad enough that they attack the problem in a dumb way, but using lies is even worse. Condoms work, full stop. It might not be a 100 % safe, but the odds are better then to plug the ears of your children and let them figure things out on their own.

Collapse

05-13-2006, 11:14 AM

Fertility at a young age. And this is surprising in what ways exactly?

EvilFred

05-13-2006, 11:57 AM

Am I the only one that thinks abortion would be a good idea in a case like this? I'm not trying to shove my views down anyone's throat but I know that's what I would do if I were twelve and pregnant. Her body just isn't ready for this. I know a woman who had her baby at fifteen and it still causes physical problems for her today.

MNJetter

05-13-2006, 12:02 PM

I don't think anybody here has mentioned thinking that's a bad idea. Just a lot of people marvelling that anybody thinks educating people about contraceptives is wrong.

yao_yao

05-13-2006, 12:45 PM

Hey could someone put up the article?

The 9 year old girl that got pregnant in Nigeria had an abortion. Her family actually had to get help from organizations in the United States to get it (abortion is outlawed in Nigeria).

Like it or not, pregnancy can be dangerous. The younger the woman/girl, the more dangerous it is for both mother and child.

On fertility at a young age: girls have been developing curves and having their periods earlier and earlier for a number of reasons. These include environmental pollution and obesity.

I can't say much on obesity, but I'll talk about the environment. Certain pollutants contain estrogene like compounds (there's a specific one in cheap plastic i can't recall the name of). We come into these when we use the items, or when we consume them. The pollutants are rather like estrogene, which is a steroid and thus fat soluble. That means that they get into fatty foods, espicially meat. That's another reason why westerners tend to be curvier too. Asians tend to spread out their body fat instead of clustering them like Westerners. This is bodytype adn biology, I'm not stereotyping. But as the asian diet is becoming fattier, they're also becoming curvier due to obesity and increased contact with these pollutants.

In women these chemicals are currently being blamed for the increased rates of breast cancer, uterine cancer, and earlier and more curves (breast and hip development) of women.

In men.... they're being blamed for severely decreased sperm counts, sexual disfunction and higher counts of various other things that while aren't damaging, are notes of interest. There was a study in hospitals, of measureing the distance between the genitalia and the anus in newborn boys, and they've found that through the years there's been a growing trend for the two to be much closer, like that of a girl's.

Just a nice little thought for the men in the group ;)

edit: oh, what' does IRT mean?

edit2: oh hey MeneerDijk, you might be interested to know that your country is the favorite one to be studied when it comes to pregnancy, std, abortion and contraceptive rates. why? you're hte best at sex ed!

edit3: i just realized how wrong the last sentece sounded. you get my idea though right *headdesk*

MNJetter

05-13-2006, 01:05 PM

i think IRT means "in reference to" or something like that....actually that was a wild guess, but it makes sense in context.

Kaji

05-13-2006, 01:24 PM

yao_yao

05-13-2006, 02:05 PM

Yao: Trying to say that Planned Parenthood and NARAL (particularly NARAL) don't have agendas of their own? I know for a fact that a number of women get severely depressed after an abortion, and can be on the verge of suicidal over it for years to come for the shame and regret having to do with it. Just because it doesn't occur in every case does not mean it doesn't happen.

Depression does happen, usually if the baby was aborted due to health issue. It can happen in other cases too. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. That's why clinics make you sign documents and ask you if you're really sure. And then there's followup checkups and couseling. But the fact that they're claiming it happens in almost every case, so much as to warrant a syndrome is what I'm against.

Praetorian

05-13-2006, 03:14 PM

i think IRT means "in reference to" or something like that....actually that was a wild guess, but it makes sense in context.

In Response To, but yours works.

Hooray. The Netherlands has the best sex ed.

Goat

05-13-2006, 04:50 PM

I critisice the catholic church for not condoning condoms.

You have to understand why the catholic church does not condone condoms, they preach Chastity. If everyon only had sex with the person they married, after they are married, all the sexual transmited desises would have a very short life, of course the prostituties would go out of biz also...and that would be just bad

Kaji

05-13-2006, 05:29 PM

Why, because then they'd have to find a real job?

MNJetter

05-13-2006, 11:39 PM

prostituties

:rofl: of the day award.

So what's a "prostituty" in the singular form mean?

:D

sedatedmonkey

05-14-2006, 02:14 AM

Not true anymore. The Vatican changed its stance on condoms because of their necessity in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

The baby is screwed. His mother is a 12-year-old and in no way emotionally, mentally or financially equipped for motherhood. Physcially, she isn't doing that great either, in part because even though capable of pregnancy, the female body isn't fully developed at 11-12 and pregnancy is even more traumatic on the body at that age than as an adult. that age group is considered very high risk. Also, the kid smokes nearly a pack a day. She probably has the lung capacity of hamster. The baby will have all sorts of developmental issues with his respiratory system as a result, in addition to a highly likely low birth weight and the health issues associated with that.

His grandmother is an imbecilic fruitcake who doesn't know enough to talk to her kids or even monitor their activities. She let her 11-year-old daughter be out unsupervised at night. She didn't kick her daughter's butt for smoking. I'd bet good money her daughter drinks as well. This woman is the poster child for bad parenting and now she is going to be raising her grandchild, ensuring that she screws up yet another generation.

They need to remove that girl and her baby from that home as it is painfully obvious there is not adequate supervision.

So, 150 years ago, 11/12 year olds wer much more physically/emotionally/financially equipped? Your concepts are shrouded by current social values. (who's isn't?) We humans have been breeding for a long ass time, and as soon as the fertility cycle starts, well, yeah. Now, we are "much more advanced" as humans and realize that mental maturity comes later in life and set an artificial age of 18 years as the "age of maturity" to be able to make such decisions as bearing children. (my personal opinion, you're not mature enough until just before death.) What is the right age? i know plenty of 18 year old morons that don't know which end of the baby to put the cheesesteak sandwich in.

When I was 13, yeah, there were some 12 year olds that were HOT. When I was 15, not so much. When I hit 18, they looked like kids to me. Older, no thoughts about them other than "innocent children that need to play with LEGO(tm)." How much of that thought process is natural/instinctual and how much is social conditioning?

Take a tour of a cemetary that is at least 100 years old. You will find gravestones of mothers who gave birth to several children before hitting 18. (or sadly, died in childbirth at 12, 13, 14, etc.)

no single person is "financially equipped" to have children. You just make do the best you can.

MNJetter

05-14-2006, 02:28 AM

I agree with you there. Society has a way of brainwashing us all into thinking that certain things are just naturally sick or unacceptable, when they may have been perfectly acceptable in the past, and may be again in the future.

But I get the distinct feeling that this girl and her mother aren't exactly of the "mature" variety, mentally speaking.

Scott Vincent

05-14-2006, 03:44 AM

PopCulturePooka

05-14-2006, 08:23 AM

The boy is being charged with Stat Rape.
http://www.itv.com/news/943707.html

Kaji

05-14-2006, 10:44 AM

Seems they pulled out the cigarette references...hehehe...

Renommus

05-14-2006, 05:41 PM

Y'Know... If someone was irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex at the age of 12, surely they can't be responsible enough to have a baby.

yao_yao

05-15-2006, 11:31 AM

someone post hte article already plz! I can't read it here in china, great firewall blocks bbc!

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 11:47 AM

The boy is being charged with Stat Rape.
http://www.itv.com/news/943707.html

I figured he would be charged with something. Even if it is consensual sex.. once the girl is underaged, the court system automatically feels that since she isn't an adult she can't legally make the decision to have sex

PopCulturePooka

05-15-2006, 11:49 AM

I figured he would be charged with something. Even if it is consensual sex.. once the girl is underaged, the court system automatically feels that since she isn't an adult she can't legally make the decision to have sex
She was 11 at the time.
Even that argument is shaky because she is still a child.

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 11:51 AM

someone post hte article already plz! I can't read it here in china, great firewall blocks bbc!

Here you go

A 15-year-old boy is being prosecuted in connection with the case of a girl who fell pregnant at the age of 11.
The girl from West Lothian - who would become one of the UK's youngest mothers - told a newspaper that she was looking forward to having her child.

The teenage boy is due to appear in court in July charged with rape because of the age of the girl, who is now 12.

The case has prompted calls for a better teenage sexual health strategy in Scotland.

Green MSP Patrick Harvie said it showed that deficiencies in Scottish sex education must be addressed.

The Scottish Sun said the girl, who has not been named, had unprotected sex with the boy on a night out with friends in Edinburgh in August.

She said she was looking forward to motherhood and hopes she has a boy when she gives birth.

The girl added that she thought she would be able to cope as she'd had "lots of practice" looking after young children.

"I'm enjoying being pregnant - even though I get a bit of a sore back and sore ribs."

Her 34-year-old mother told the newspaper: "I'm not ashamed of my daughter at all - in fact, I'm proud of her for keeping her baby."

The newspaper said the girl smokes up to 20 cigarettes a day.

Sex education

Mr Harvie, co-convenor of the Scottish Parliament's cross-party group on sexual health, said: "I think we need to do away with this notion that sex education is everywhere and that young people have got all the information they need.

"There are a lot of myths out there and sex education is quite patchy in this country.

"The sexual health and relationships strategy from the Scottish Executive - the implementation of that is going on at the moment - needs to lead to much more comprehensive sex education."

The Scottish Conservatives called for society and families to unite to change attitudes towards sex following the news.

Health spokeswoman Nanette Milne MSP said: "This news will have shocked many people and the impact on the lives of the two children, the mum-to-be and her baby must be the first concern.

"I hope that this incident will draw attention to failings that have allowed such a young girl to go on a night out, get drunk, get pregnant, yet seemingly be ignorant about the risks and consequences."

A Catholic Church spokesman criticised "an increasingly promiscuous culture".

Family context

A Scottish Executive spokesman did not comment on the case, but said: "We have a programme of sex education in schools.

"It is something that all pupils should be aware of and it stresses the importance of relationships with a family context."

A spokesman for Lothian and Borders Police said the girl's case would be the subject of a child protection review.

West Lothian Council said it was providing support and working with the family to ensure that the child "gets the best possible start".

Praetorian

05-15-2006, 11:51 AM

Wow, yao_yao used l33tspeak. Heh.

Anyway.

Boy charged over child pregnancy
The girl is due to give birth next month
The girl is due to give birth next month
A 15-year-old boy is being prosecuted in connection with the case of a girl who fell pregnant at the age of 11.

The girl from West Lothian - who would become one of the UK's youngest mothers - told a newspaper that she was looking forward to having her child.

The teenage boy is due to appear in court in July charged with rape because of the age of the girl, who is now 12.

The case has prompted calls for a better teenage sexual health strategy in Scotland.

Green MSP Patrick Harvie said it showed that deficiencies in Scottish sex education must be addressed.

The Scottish Sun said the girl, who has not been named, had unprotected sex with the boy on a night out with friends in Edinburgh in August.

There are a lot of myths out there and sex education is quite patchy in this country
Patrick Harvie
Green MSP

She said she was looking forward to motherhood and hopes she has a boy when she gives birth.

The girl added that she thought she would be able to cope as she'd had "lots of practice" looking after young children.

"I'm enjoying being pregnant - even though I get a bit of a sore back and sore ribs."

Her 34-year-old mother told the newspaper: "I'm not ashamed of my daughter at all - in fact, I'm proud of her for keeping her baby."

The newspaper said the girl smokes up to 20 cigarettes a day.

Sex education

Mr Harvie, co-convenor of the Scottish Parliament's cross-party group on sexual health, said: "I think we need to do away with this notion that sex education is everywhere and that young people have got all the information they need.

"There are a lot of myths out there and sex education is quite patchy in this country.

"The sexual health and relationships strategy from the Scottish Executive - the implementation of that is going on at the moment - needs to lead to much more comprehensive sex education."

This news will have shocked many people
Nanette Milne
Tory health spokeswoman

The Scottish Conservatives called for society and families to unite to change attitudes towards sex following the news.

Health spokeswoman Nanette Milne MSP said: "This news will have shocked many people and the impact on the lives of the two children, the mum-to-be and her baby must be the first concern.

"I hope that this incident will draw attention to failings that have allowed such a young girl to go on a night out, get drunk, get pregnant, yet seemingly be ignorant about the risks and consequences."

A Catholic Church spokesman criticised "an increasingly promiscuous culture".

Family context

A Scottish Executive spokesman did not comment on the case, but said: "We have a programme of sex education in schools.

"It is something that all pupils should be aware of and it stresses the importance of relationships with a family context."

A spokesman for Lothian and Borders Police said the girl's case would be the subject of a child protection review.

West Lothian Council said it was providing support and working with the family to ensure that the child "gets the best possible start".

-------------------------

This was the link posted in page one, but it seems they majorly modified the article.

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 11:56 AM

She was 11 at the time.
Even that argument is shaky because she is still a child.

What argument?

PopCulturePooka

05-15-2006, 11:58 AM

the girl is underaged, the court system automatically feels that since she isn't an adult she can't legally make the decision to have sex

That one.

Like... If this was a case of a 15 year old boy getting a 14 year old up the duff, as wrong as it is... It COULD be argued that they could have made the decision to have sex etc.

In this one, the girl was 11. Horny or not, young and dumb or not, girl willing or not, he nailed an 11 year old which enters Catholic priest territory.

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 12:09 PM

PopCulturePooka

05-15-2006, 12:19 PM

I know... doesn't mean it was sex against her will... but because of the age it will be looked upon as unconsentual sex... hell... when I was 10 and 11 I was trying to have sex.... never did... but hey... I was trying.. I have read a case where a 15 year old and 14 year old had sex - with their parents consent as well - and he was brought to court for rape as well because she was underaged...

I'm not advocating that 11 year olds should go and have sex - or that they can make a proper decision about it - i think it was wrong - i'm just saying that that's the way the court sees it
Its the way I see it too.

At 10 or 11 you said you were going out trying to have sex. At that age did you REALLY know what it was about? Did you really know the risks, what can happen and all that?

Not saying a 14 or 15 year old is any better, but they are SOMEWHAT more informed about it and have matured in their reasoning levels to an extent.

Just because the girl gave consent, doesn't mean it was an informed consent, and in most countries an uninformed consent can be considered void. Theres been a few cases where convicted pedos have tried to say the kids they diddled wanted it and enjoyed it and ergo its ok. But its not if the kid lacks capacity to understand what is happening.

DJ_one

05-15-2006, 12:21 PM

I doesnt suprise me at all in this day in the UK, I've overheard kids boy and girl boasting about having sex with each other and some other kid saying "but you're only 8!!!", the kid had been previously bragging himself, looked no older than about 14-15.

UK has the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, I used to live in the city with the highest teen pregnancy rate in the whole of UK, would always see kids pushing prams with their own kids rather than a doll, just the way things in working class area's are going, far less likely in more educated/richer area's and families.

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 12:33 PM

Its the way I see it too.

At 10 or 11 you said you were going out trying to have sex. At that age did you REALLY know what it was about? Did you really know the risks, what can happen and all that?

Not saying a 14 or 15 year old is any better, but they are SOMEWHAT more informed about it and have matured in their reasoning levels to an extent.

Just because the girl gave consent, doesn't mean it was an informed consent, and in most countries an uninformed consent can be considered void. Theres been a few cases where convicted pedos have tried to say the kids they diddled wanted it and enjoyed it and ergo its ok. But its not if the kid lacks capacity to understand what is happening.

I agree with you - that's why I said

I'm not advocating that 11 year olds should go and have sex - or that they can make a proper decision about it - i think it was wrong

Obviously an 11 year old can't make an informed decision - hell most 18 year olds don't know jack

There are countries though... where an 11 year old say so is as good as an adult say so... most of them are muslim or practice voodoo and stuff like that but still....

PopCulturePooka

05-15-2006, 12:41 PM

There are countries though... where an 11 year old say so is as good as an adult say so... most of them are muslim or practice voodoo and stuff like that but still....
Those countries and cultures though seem to place very little value in the mental well ebing of the child, and the marriages are not really consentual as much as they are set.

Klilynkun

05-15-2006, 12:45 PM

true - i couldn't really imagine an 11 year old bride wanting to get it from a 40 year old man... it just doesn't sit right with me... gives me nightmares

PopCulturePooka

05-15-2006, 12:56 PM

true - i couldn't really imagine an 11 year old bride wanting to get it from a 40 year old man... it just doesn't sit right with me... gives me nightmares
Which too me also invalidates the whole '100 od years ago kids this young got married' idea.

That long ago kids were also property and bartering chips, were forced to work in places like mines and factories and had few too no rights. Life expectency was also shorter, so it made some bizarre type of sense to start popping out babies earlier.

Kiari

05-15-2006, 06:04 PM

100 or so years ago (more in the upper classes, you have to go back to victorian for them) we didn't coddle our children so much.

'Teenagers' as an age group didn't even exist. You were a child, and then you became a working adult... and you got pressed into the responsibility quickly.

A kid was raised up with the expectation of work and making a family being pretty much the whole of their 'adolecent' ages. Kids now are raised with the expectation that life will be one big party catered by their parents and the rest of the world. Is it a surprise that most of the first group of kids managed to raise children without being totally incompetent, but most of the second group shouldn't be trusted with a goldfish, let alone a child?

(I'm bitter with Teens today, sorry guys. I spend the weekend at a party for my friend's little sister... where, as the only sober one, I got to be the one to stop around 20 seperate drunk teens from climbing into their cars)

Kass

05-15-2006, 08:48 PM

And 100 years ago, nearly as many kids died in childhood as didn't. It's rather irrelevant. Even then, they didn't knock up 11-year-olds.

Kiari

05-16-2006, 04:01 AM

Heck, in some areas infant mortality was even higher than 50%. Having dead brothers and sisters doesn't make the fact that 13/15 year olds had to be more responsible irrelevant.

Kass

05-16-2006, 10:47 AM

ELEVEN. The girl was out partying, unsupervised and getting knocked up at age ELEVEN. Even when (and many still are) kids were expected to be self-sufficient and more responsible at 15 and 16, the kids were not out drinking and screwing around. The men, who were typically much older because they were expected to earn a living and be able to support a family, were working and the girls, usually about 15/16, were at home doing the laundry. Even in these days you like to toss out, they didn't send 11-year-olds out to promulgate the species.

It doesn't matter. It has no bearing whatsoever on this case. This is NOW. That was then.

This girl's mother was grossly incompetent, almost criminally negligent. In the US, a parent who let an 11-year-old child out unsupervised to wander the streets and screw around would be charged with negligence. In most states, it's against the law to go to the grocery store and leave a child under the age of 12 alone for the 15 minutes it takes to get a gallon of milk.

And now, this ignorant, worthless excuse for a mother will be raising her 12-year-old's baby. Her 12-year-old has no idea the kind of work and pure unpleasant stress this will put on her life and lacks the skills to deal with it, emotionally and practically. She has no way to support herself or her child and has no substantive education to prepare her for the workforce yet.

Babies aren't dolls and you don't get to give them back or leave them alone when they cry, stink, get sick or you want to go out and play with your friends. The way the 12-year-old AND her mother talk, that's apparently their concept of parenting.

yao_yao

05-16-2006, 11:26 AM

Thanks Klilynkun.

And what's wrong with me going l33t Praetorian? |)0 I s33|\/| 7oo 57o|)6y 7o u53 it? I'm not 18 yet.

Children these days are highly sheltered. 'Children' of the old days were considered mini-adults, with all the thinking ability of one but none of hte experience. It wasn't until Piaget that the idea that children mature in steps, and that their brains can't handle certain concepts until certain ages (ex conservation of volume... two cups, one short and fat and the other tall and skinny. Take a another cup, fill it with water, and pout it into cup A. Then fill it again with the same amount of water, and fill cup B. We know it's the same amount of water. The kid will always think the taller, skinnier glass with the higher water level has more water)

The fact taht they were mini-adults meant they were supposed to understand certain things way before modern day kids do. Sex is definately one of them... with the advent of diapers and baby monitors, parents dont have to watch over their kids all the time. They sleep in separate rooms. In the old days, the kid would always sleep with their parents until they reached a certain age. so that means staying there... even as the parents had sex. In some culture of course.

anyhow they need more sex ed there. Send over Praetorian, Netherlands is considered having hte best sex ed.

EvilFred

05-16-2006, 02:04 PM

So, 150 years ago, 11/12 year olds wer much more physically/emotionally/financially equipped? Your concepts are shrouded by current social values. (who's isn't?) We humans have been breeding for a long ass time, and as soon as the fertility cycle starts, well, yeah. Now, we are "much more advanced" as humans and realize that mental maturity comes later in life and set an artificial age of 18 years as the "age of maturity" to be able to make such decisions as bearing children. (my personal opinion, you're not mature enough until just before death.) What is the right age? i know plenty of 18 year old morons that don't know which end of the baby to put the cheesesteak sandwich in.

When I was 13, yeah, there were some 12 year olds that were HOT. When I was 15, not so much. When I hit 18, they looked like kids to me. Older, no thoughts about them other than "innocent children that need to play with LEGO(tm)." How much of that thought process is natural/instinctual and how much is social conditioning?

Take a tour of a cemetary that is at least 100 years old. You will find gravestones of mothers who gave birth to several children before hitting 18. (or sadly, died in childbirth at 12, 13, 14, etc.)

no single person is "financially equipped" to have children. You just make do the best you can.
The fact that something used to go on 100 years ago does not mean it's just dandy for it to happen today. In today's world we know that it is physically not safe to have children at such a young age.

kilreli

05-16-2006, 02:45 PM

And what's wrong with me going l33t Praetorian? |)0 I s33|\/| 7oo 57o|)6y 7o u53 it?
wtf?!:boggled:
does that say,"do i seem too stodby to use it?"
my brain hurts. probably cause i may have gotten some of that right..

Kass

05-16-2006, 03:02 PM

|)0 I s33|\/| 7oo 57o|)6y 7o u53 it?

This bears a startling resemblance to what appears when my three-legged cat walks across my keyboard. :P

kilreli

05-17-2006, 03:25 AM

This bears a startling resemblance to what appears when my three-legged cat walks across my keyboard. :P
3 legs?!:eyepop:
thats too bad...if it woulda been 4, you may have had a chance that yoru cat would walk in a special sequence while chasing a bug(i think), and then you would turn into Freakazoid!!
ah well, you`ll catch your break sometime...

Renommus

05-17-2006, 09:23 AM

z0|\/|6 13375p34|< 7|-||234|) |-|16|-|J4(|<

yao_yao

05-17-2006, 11:50 AM

oh good god, the Great Firewall (Chinese gov's censorship) blocks me for 24 hours and I find the thread's been hijacked by l33t. back on topic plz?

mare_imbrium

05-18-2006, 10:36 AM

You seem to be missing the point. While we can read between the lines as to why Onan did what it was he did, the direct reading would indicate that God slew Onan for spilling his seed onto the ground. And, in a very literal sense, Onan followed the rules. He laid with his brother's wife just as he was supposed to, the only thing he did was pull out before ejaculation.

What if what we're doing is not "reading between the lines" but actually reading it as its intended audience would have read it? What if at the time spilling one's seed onto the ground was actually a normal method of family planning, but disobeying one's father or being selfish was the real sin? We're not seeing it right away (and neither those later who decided to interpret it as masturbation == bad or contraception == bad) because our culture is so radically different that every aspect of that passage is foreign to us, and probably was even whenever the interpretation was made a part of church doctrine (while in Medieval times, for example, they had rules of inheritance, I don't recall hearing that it was a normal practice for a man to have to marry his brother's widow).

I'm racking my brain trying to think of a modern-day equivalent...okay, this is kind of a stretch. Continuing in the "spilling things" vein, have you ever seen or heard of the custom whereby when a toast is given with which you disagree with or dislike the giver, instead of drinking you pour your drink on the ground? Say the passage was about a situation where Onan was to drink with his brother and instead poured his drink upon the ground and then God slew him. Societies for whom this is a known point of etiquette would know without a doubt why he was slain. Cultures that aren't aware of the practice, or that are perhaps aware of it in an academic sense but do not practice it, maybe due to it being archaic, might think he was slain because he was wasting drink. It could be argued it was further a reasonable interpretation because of the arid climate where drinking is important due to the scarcity of water, maybe. But a culture intimately aware of its own practices would never think God slew Onan because he was wasting drink, it wouldn't even occur to them because of the glaring rudeness of his action in their culture.

Like I said, it's kind of a stretch to match the two. But this is part of my problem with modern-day interpretations of ancient writings that have been translated through several different languages. Either (or some third option) could be the way the authors intended it and you really can't know which just by reading it.

ClubCrKz

05-18-2006, 02:41 PM

Meh...

My Dad's Cousin ( I guess making her my 2nd Cousin, as she is like his half cousin...wait that means her daughter and I wouldn't be considered...wow thats interesting...continuing ) had her daughter when she was between 12 and 13. Funny thing is, she is now married to the guy who got her pregnant who is like 28-29 and she is 24-25. ( Wow I guess he was just a bit older than I was when...hmm ). Another funny thing is, apparently one time her daughter had to bring her mom for some student-parent meeting and the teacher proceded to say 'Oh no, I need to speak with one of your parents. Who is this? Your sister?'

So yea....

chad mullet

05-20-2006, 01:52 AM

i was just so shocked at the story that i had my info. mixed up. i just don't understand how an 11 years old child can say 'i'm looking forward to motherhood...and enjoy being pregnant.' not to mention the smoking issue...sheesh. just hope that the baby doesn't have any can of health problems when it is born.

All you people here seem to be as much shocked by this girl's smoking habit as by the fact that she got pregnant at 11. Why is that? It's her lungs and her brat - plenty of adults in Scotland are totally unfit to have children too and are just as stupid and incapable of making informed choices as this girl.

LOts of adults smoke when they are pregnant so I can't see that it's any worse if this girl does it -it's not illegal to smoke at that age [although it is illegal to sell her cigarettes]. Given her age, smoking might be a good idea - it'll make the foetus smaller for one thing!

Anyway we Scots are as tough as fuck - we all smoke and we eat only lard and fried Mars Bars.