Fatties win Again. [Archive] - Outpost Nine Forums

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 02:48 AM

:bored:

Major beverage companies sign deal with anti-obesity advocates

Updated: 10:27 a.m. ET May 3, 2006

NEW YORK - Tens of millions of students will no longer be able to buy non-diet sodas in the nation’s public schools under an agreement announced Wednesday between major beverage distributors and anti-obesity advocates.

The distributors, working with a joint initiative of the William J. Clinton Foundation and the American Heart Association, also have agreed to sell only water, juice and low-fat milks to elementary and middle schools, said Jay Carson, a spokesman for former President Clinton.

Cadbury Schweppes PLC, Coca-Cola Co., PepsiCo Inc. and the American Beverage Association have all signed onto the deal, Carson said, adding that the companies serve “the vast majority of schools.” The American Beverage Association represents the majority of school vending bottlers.

“It’s a bold and sweeping step that industry and childhood obesity advocates have decided to take together,” Carson said.

A man who answered the phone at Cadbury Schweppes’ London headquarters said no one was available for comment. Calls seeking comment from other distributors were not immediately returned early Wednesday.

Sporting events, plays also affected
Nearly 35 million students nationwide will be affected by the deal, The Alliance for a Healthier Generation said in a news release. The group, a collaboration between Clinton’s foundation and the American Heart Association, helped broker the deal.

Under the agreement, the distributors will not sell soda or diet soda to elementary and middle schools. Diet soda, diet and unsweetened teas, fitness water, sports drinks, flavored water and seltzers will be sold to high schools, the news release said.

“This is really the beginning of a major effort to modify childhood obesity at the level of the school systems,” said Robert H. Eckel, the president of the American Heart Association.

The agreement applies to beverages sold on school grounds during the regular and extended school day, Carson said. Sales during after-school activities such as clubs, yearbook, band and choir practice will be affected by the new regulations. But sales at events such as school plays, band concerts and sporting events, where adults make up a significant portion of the audience, won’t be affected, he said.

How quickly the changes take hold will depend in part on individual school districts’ willingness to alter existing contracts, the release said. The companies will work to implement the changes at 75 percent of the nation’s public schools by the 2008-2009 school year, and at all schools a year later, the alliance said.

Many school districts around the country have already begun to replace soda and candy in vending machines with healthier items, and dozens of states have considered legislation on school nutrition this year.

The agreement follows an August decision by the American Beverage Association to adopt a policy limiting soft drinks in high schools to no more than 50 percent of the selections in vending machines. That recommendation was not binding.

Most elementary schools are already soda-free.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12604166/:bang:

Heaven forbid the fatties take some responsibility for their diets and their fat kids diets instead of letting the rest of use be punished.

SDSUMarcus01

05-04-2006, 02:59 AM

People have no will power.

Radiance

05-04-2006, 03:01 AM

Its true. I read it on the internet. :/ Though I will say, GG personal responsibility.

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 03:03 AM

Its true. I read it on the internet. :/ Though I will say, GG personal responsibility.
Sorry. Added link to the article.

Kaji

05-04-2006, 03:09 AM

Eh, no net effect on me or my family. Mom only drinks diet, I find regular Coke too sweet (and dislike Pepsi altogether), brother doesn't drink soda, and Dad drinks what Mom does. At least now we won't have to worry about people mixing up between regular and diet...hehehe...

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 03:14 AM

This is happening in Australia too and it pisses me off.

I'm a pre-service techer, next year I'll be a full tim teacher. In Australia this law basically means TEACHERS can't buy drinks like coke at schools.

I'm sorry, but its a high school, if a fatty can't control what he/she drinks or eats, its their issue, not mine.

In Australia this law also extends to foods as well.

What I forsee is this: lots of kids coming to school with money for Tuckshop (cafeteria for you guys) not buying food they dont wanna eat and instead going hungry. Leaving me with hungry irritable kids in the afternoon.

Joy.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 04:08 AM

I hope you get fat when you get older pooka. I sincerely do. Then you can know how it feels. Eff you. I find the title of this thread offensive as well as many of the things you keep saying. I don't give a shit about how many people say i shouldn't be offended cause I am. >.< Show some respect for people! I don't care what you say. Making fun of fat people is NOT okay and it won't change a single thing.

I'm fat and I always drink diet soda so i won't get diabetes for drinking sugar when I'm thirsty. Any kid, fat or not can get diabetes if they overload their system. Now the skinny kids who eat junk every day might turn into healthy skinny kids. I don't agree with them getting rid of junk foods/reg. sodas all together, but they SHOULD have a wider variety of healthier foods and drinks. Only 2 soda machines at my old high school had diet soda.

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 04:13 AM

I'm sorry mystic, but this 'everyone suffers cause some people can't control their diet choices' pisses me off.

First it was supersize meals, now its this.

Because SOME people get fat drinking soda, everyone else, including those who don't must suffer? Including, in Australia at least, teachers?

Kids in high school are big enough and 'smart' enough to make the choice to drink soda or not. They should not have the option taken away from them because of the lack of responsibility of others.

You don't HAVE to drink Soda, but fuck, you should have the choice.

Stephy

05-04-2006, 04:14 AM

Oh right and saying that to him is just as mature. (Though I don't agree too much either with the title :P )

-

This doesn't bother me much. Might not have even taken affect yet. I go back to school next week. Wonder if they took it out of the vending machines. Nah.

fa11en87

05-04-2006, 04:17 AM

In high school last year, I noticed they got rid of all kinds of things such as, sodas, kfc, pizza, teryaki bowls, and anything else that was worth eating during lunch...

Myrsilus

05-04-2006, 04:19 AM

Wish I cared more about this, but I don't. I tried a few times... but I don't.

The last soda I drank was weeks ago - a Sprite. I eat healthy foods as much as I can, I try to apportion my meals more intelligently now. So this really doesn't affect me much.

Sure, it's a shame this sort of thing happens because some people do not practice the healthiest habits (Their choice anyway). But maybe there is some good in all of this somewhere.

Not like sodas are illegal in other places now. Oh well, like I said... Doesn't bother me.

Idlethought

05-04-2006, 04:19 AM

wheres the benefit of having the soda there at all? If anything they should have water and juices. Junk foods contribute to kids' hyperactivity and lack of attention in school and have no benefit besides financial.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 04:25 AM

I agree you should have the choice.

That's the second time I've seen the word "fatties" in a thread title though and it made me very angry. (which is a difficult thing to do) Don't blame fat people. Blame the people that think they can change it by limiting meals. Fat people certainly weren't the ones saying "yeah! diet soda and celery for me please!" If people are going to eat junk they'll just bring junk to school.

Blaming fat people for this policy is like blaming mexicans for the new anti immigration laws that are trying to get through the system. "damn you fat people... now they're trying to take away my pepsi!" is like "damn you mexicans! the US is making it harder for me to immigrate there because of you!"

Jay

05-04-2006, 04:27 AM

Solution: Get fat > Whinge.

Then you'll be a fat guy whinging that you can't control your habits instead of a skinny guy whinging that all your goodies are being taken away. :D

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 04:33 AM

Oh right and saying that to him is just as mature.

I was being honest. I'm angry and fed up with being judged even before I can speak, and being blamed for so many problems I had nothing to do with. I'm sick and tired of being called a fatty and peopleassuming they know everthing about my life. Don't even tell me that I "should change if you hate it so much" I am already on my way to changing, even if it means I need ot eat 2 times as healthy as most people to do it. In the meantime I need to keep putting up with this crap. I know society will never change, so I pretty much have to conform if I ever want to be treated equally.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 04:40 AM

Maybe you are? I use to weigh 234 (at 5'6") I'm on a diet... now I'm 207. I look the same though. I look fat... not disgustingly so. I've got a waist at least. :P Maybe you only saw pics of my face. :P ... but yeah ... regular large t-shirt fits me tightly... sooo think of that

Edit: Thanks though ^.^

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 05:07 AM

My mom's a teacher. She keeps diet sodas in her trunk and takes them to work with her. muchmuch cheaper. I even take a soda in my backpack with me to school sometimes.

rush

05-04-2006, 05:08 AM

Yeah, because removing soda and snacks from vending machines will obviously make kids more healthy, when all the cafeteria serves is pizza and burgers. GG schools.

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 05:09 AM

The Australian rules don't allow that!!!
I took a can of coke with me last day of prac. School admin said I shouldn't even have it on campus.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 05:12 AM

that's messed up.... well there's always water or juice if you don't like diet...

wimmpy

05-04-2006, 05:12 AM

Bah, a soda cost $1.25 for a bottle in the High School I attended. Some people bought a soda each day of school, now you have to that add up.

$1.25 x 180(Avg days in a school year in the US) = $225 per year, or you can just drink out of the water fountain and have a milk with your standard lunch the school gives you, like I did.

1.25 x 90(If you buy a soda only half of the days your in school) = $112.50

Spend you're money some place else.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 05:20 AM

herehere, when it comes to college too bringing your lunch is so much cheaper and healthier than buying it on campus. I like those campbells soup bowls... just microwave them, yumminess. I also bring dole fruit cups or sugarfree jello. If you want reeeally cheap go for the instant lunch/cup o' noodles ... Not too bad healthwise either ... cambells chicken noodle is less than 200 calories though, which makes it my favorite.

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 05:21 AM

You guys are allowed Microwaves in high schools?

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 05:25 AM

i said when it comes to college... they have em around campus for student use... at high schools here though the teachers lounges have microwaves.

PopCulturePooka

05-04-2006, 05:40 AM

From what I gathered, the only country with a bigger obesity problem than Australia is America.

:D

Typical Australia trying to copy America.

Ooch, I was slightly wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bmi30chart.png

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 05:56 AM

japan will be next? they're trying to copy america too!

Psychochink

05-04-2006, 05:58 AM

Pooka, you live in Australia, though. Is about the same portion of the population there overweight?

What are some better options, if there are any, for slimming the kids down?

Australia does have an obesity problem, which has recently become a national priority. Diet is a part of it, but at the end of the day it's going to be a combination of factors that cause a rise in obesity (poor diet, sedentary lifestyle, etc. Not rocket science).

As far as options go...well, you need to address the problem at its source and engender some kind of widespread lifestyle change. My organisation has just thrown a few million into establishing a five-university research centre. At the moment they're conducting some pretty big community trials to formulate strategies to get the populace moving in the right directions.

Of course, there's always the discussion I had with my boss the other day: "Are we able to legislate mandatory exercise in schools?", "In the public school system, yeah." :stirthepo

That'll learn the chubby, little bastards.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 06:05 AM

One thing I hated about school PE was that you had NO choice what to do. I have asthma and most teachers made you run every damn day. They took away points if you didn't make it in time. Shit like that ruined my 4.0 grades. =\ If you're going to make exercise mandatory, don't penalize students' GPA's if they can't do it. And kids should have choices as to what they want to do. I loved swimming and badminton, thought basketball and soccer were okay, hated volleyball and and running. I wish I could have had more choice as to how I exercised. One type isn't for everyone.

Psychochink

05-04-2006, 06:12 AM

Must...resist...temptation...Oh, bugger it.

Sorry, that's not my department. Please take this issue up with your State/Territory government Department of Education & Training.

[Actually, I'm not government, but that's what the Feds would say. ;) ]

EvilFred

05-04-2006, 06:17 AM

I wish my school would ban all soda products so I could laugh at the soda drinkers and be like "Nyaha! No soda for you! Isn't it just killing you that you can't have soda?". I think that would be fun (I have no life so I need to get my kicks where I can). Anyway, I don't think schools should be selling soda. It's unhealthy and if the kids want it they can have their parents buy it for them. The schools do not need to be providing kids something that might as well be liquid sugar, especially when they aren't old enough to make healthy eating decisions on their own.

And if I hear one more person whine about 'fatties' I might just put on three hundred pounds and then slap them in the face with my fat. :innocent:

Jay

05-04-2006, 06:20 AM

Of course, there's always the discussion I had with my boss the other day: "Are we able to legislate mandatory exercise in schools?", "In the public school system, yeah." :stirthepo

That'll learn the chubby, little bastards.

Thank God I'm not within your jurisdiction! :P

Masa the Masta

05-04-2006, 06:31 AM

Psychochink

05-04-2006, 06:36 AM

Thank God I'm not within your jurisdiction! :P
:P

Actually, we were talking at a Federal level. Besides, I thought you were in shape? Just think of the hilarity to be had! (All for the good of the kiddies, of course. Oh yes...)

[Disclaimer: I am carrying around too much fat. I don't believe fatties should be mollycoddled. Scream in my face that I'm a weak little pork pie and if I don't pump out another rep you're going to let me choke on the goddamned bar. Yeah baby.]

Jay

05-04-2006, 06:44 AM

Besides, I thought you were in shape?

Whatever gave you that idea? ;)

Federal, eh...? Lucky thing I left school years ago. :D

EvilFred

05-04-2006, 06:47 AM

I think people who are severely overweight deserve to be called fatty.
You're right! Next time I see a morbidly obese person I'm gonna run up to them and slap the shit right out of them while screaming 'fatso' and other obscenities.

There's no reason, of course, for me to stop and think that maybe I'm being a judgemental asshat who should mind my own business and keep my big nose out of other people's health issues. Nooo siree. No reason whatsoever. *hackingcough*

Psychochink

05-04-2006, 06:52 AM

Lucky thing I left school years ago. :D

Damn you Salazar! DAMN YOU SALAZAR!

Er...on topic...While I don't support discrimination against fatties (or anybody else), there has to be a recognition that for 99.5% of overweight people it is a lifestyle choice. Many don't want to face this and blame genetics, 'big bones' (whatever the fuck they are), thyroid problems (undiagnosed), etc.

Yes, some people are luckier genetically. However, just because you've got a endomorphic body type (like me) is no excuse. I know people that were full-on fatties that now have body fat in the single digits and look like they could bend steel bars with their hands.

Everyone can be in shape if they want to be. Yes, some of us have to put more effort into it, but them's the breaks.

Jay

05-04-2006, 06:52 AM

You're right! Next time I see a morbidly obese person I'm gonna run up to them and slap the shit right out of them while screaming 'fatso' and other obscenities.

There's no reason, of course, for me to stop and think that maybe I'm being a judgemental asshat who should mind my own business and keep my big nose out of other people's health issues. Nooo siree. No reason whatsoever. *hackingcough*

I'm with Masa on this one, actually. If you gorge yourself and then whinge that you're fat, you're gonna get CALLED fat. You stuffed your face and sat on your fat lazy arse, you deal with the shit that gets slung your way.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 06:55 AM

For those of you who drink diet drinks, shame on you.

Instead of using regular sweeteners, they use even WORSE crap. Artificial sweeteners. Aspartame? ...Augh..

I think it's a step in the right direction, but it won't be the end all, be all solution for childhood obesity.

I think people who are severely overweight deserve to be called fatty. People who are 'naturally' big boned have my sympathy, because genetically, that is how people ARE sometimes.

However, when you see a family full of big boned people, sometimes it's not genetics, but rather, what the family is eating as a whole. Environment has a lot to do with it as well. Furthermore, I feel that the American public is severely under-educated about proper diets. Crash diets such as the atkins diet, the cottage cheese diet, or other things like dietary supplements, and the wrong kind of exercise can REALLY do a number on your body.

One way I can see the American people lose weight? Public transportation. I'm seriously not joking. Not only will you see less dependence on foreign oil, but the American people as a whole will be less obese. think about it.

I think having asthma is a very justifiable cause for not doing heavy cardiovascular exercise, however I feel that there are great alternatives to it, such as dancing. You don't have to breathe hard to lose weight, just as long as your body is moving, and your muscles are exerting force a lot, which dancing can accomplish (and it's easier than running too. ;) ), then you can lose weight.

Overall, I will absolutely REFUSE to believe that 60% of Americans are obese because of genetic issues. Americans really are fatties in some cases. Even if my opinion may be biased (considering I've never been obese as of yet in my life), I always make the effort to take care of myself if I reach a level of inactivity or unappeal with my own body. It's just taking care of yourself folks.

Masa's .02 cents.

I think that fat people don't deserve anything more than being fat. News flash, being fat isn't fun people. We already get discriminated against in so many ways, just because of our appearance. Rudeness isn't necessary. Name calling is unacceptable.

If that's the way things work, next time you do badly on a test I'll start calling you a stupid idiot. You may or may not have studied, I don't know that. You may have learning disabilities. You may not even like the subject, but i'll call you a stupid idiot because that's what I see. I got an A on that test and you could have too if you weren't such a stupid idiot .

I love to dance. In college, where I have a choice, I'm going to take country dancing next semester. "Yee ha!" ^.^ I already use public transportation and walking to get everywhere.

Man... the asthma thing, I swear every time, I tried my best to make it in on time hoping my teacher wouldn't take away points that day, I breathed so hard it gave me an icy feeling in my chest. Those times we had to do bleachers and run the mile I was screwed. I'd come in to my next period with my face freakishly pink/red from the blood rush to my face, and my hands swelled so much they were stiff.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 07:09 AM

There's no reason, of course, for me to stop and think that maybe I'm being a judgemental asshat who should mind my own business and keep my big nose out of other people's health issues. Nooo siree. No reason whatsoever. *hackingcough*

<3 Thanks... people need to seriously mind their own business sometimes. I remember when I was in high school I had 2 girls who would come up to me now and then and tell me something like cheetos weren't healthy.

"OMG I totally never knew! Why did nobody ever come up to me in just the way that you have and tell me. I seriously would never have known that if you hadn't been so kind as to point it out!"

Mind your own business.

I have to say when it comes to saying I'm fat I don't care much because it's true. Pointing out the obvious really doesn't get to me. When someone says "hey, you're fat" it makes me laugh. No shit sherlock. Now when you adress me as "Fat girl" or "fatty" that's when I get angry and you shouldn't be surprised if this nice little pale fat chick kicks you right where it hurts. Show me no respect and I'll show you none. Call me by my name and if you don't know it, don't call me.

Edit: sorry for the double post but some people posted while I was writing my last one :P

Masa the Masta

05-04-2006, 07:11 AM

I think that fat people don't deserve anything more than being fat.

Believe me, I wholeheartedly concur, to a point. Those people that are naturally big boned, don't deserve anything more, you're completely right. The people that have somewhat of a choice, and flaunt their fatness, and think it is perfectly okay and rub it in my face that being fat is better than being healthy however, will be met with the most critical bastard comments I could ever come up with. It sounds like I'm being cynical, but I've experienced people acting like asshats like this firsthand.

News flash, being fat isn't fun people.

Captain Obvious? I'd like you to meet Sherlock Holmes. Holmes? This is obvious. Exchange formalities now.

We already get discriminated against in so many ways, just because of our appearance.

Although this may sound a little irrelevant, but gays complain less about the finger pointing and the teasing. For all the hype and stereotyping that gays are sensitive, they sure do defend their sexual orientations well. Fat people (with bad eating habits and sedentary lifestyles) on the other hand, indulge in ice cream and self pity.

Rudeness isn't necessary.

Sometimes, rudeness can also be the truth, it's just perceived as rude because people don't want to hear about it. I'm not saying this is true in your case at all, but I'm speaking from what I've SEEN.

Name calling is unacceptable.

Yeah, that's about right. No one likes being called a fattie. Even worse when fat people appear to have less self esteem about themselves.

If that's the way things work, next time you do badly on a test I'll start calling you a stupid idiot.

Sounds about right. I think you're entitled to that.

You may or may not have studied, I don't know that.

Failing to prepare sounds like an idiot's move, especially if they fail. It's better to call an idiot that failed a test and didn't study, than to call them an idiot whom failed, but studied anyway. You'd be right in both cases.

You may have learning disabilities.

Does this constitute 60% of Americans? ;)

You may not even like the subject, but i'll call you a stupid idiot because that's what I see.

Some fat people don't like exercise, but they're fat from what I can see.

I got an A on that test and you could have too if you weren't such a stupid idiot .

You can be skinny too. :(

I love to dance. In college, where I have a choice, I'm going to take country dancing next semester.

That's good! Country involves a lot of hopping, it'll get your legs to work, but if you REALLY want a good workout, I suggest ballet, modern, or hip hop. You'll work the entire body a lot more.

"Yee ha!" ^.^ I already use public transportation and walking to get everywhere.

Sounds good, keep it up.

Man... the asthma thing, I swear every time, I tried my best to make it in on time hoping my teacher wouldn't take away points that day, I breathed so hard it gave me an icy feeling in my chest.

I had a friend with asthma. He was skinny, but that's beside the point. You just had to be careful is all. You supposedly grow out of asthma once you're an adult however...

Those times we had to do bleachers and run the mile I was screwed. I'd come in to my next period with my face freakishly pink/red from the blood rush to my face, and my hands swelled so much they were stiff.

I'd run anyway, just in case you need to. I mean, running may save your life someday.

Answers are in bold. Sorry if I come off as a rat bastard tonight.

Cherub Rock

05-04-2006, 07:16 AM

I'm kind of against the whole idea that a major corporation can "buy into" a public university (or worse, a highschool) so that it doesn't face competition from other companies. It's one thing to not be able to get a Coke at Taco Bell. It's another to be forced to drink Pepsi products because your highschool signed a deal with them, which mine did.

But yeah, I don't even like soda for the most part. I'm one of those yuppie bottled water drinkers. My environmentalist friends wince whenever they see my trashcan full of plastic bottles.

As for the topic at hand, keeping sodas out of highschools is not going to solve any problems with obesity in this country. If you're in highschool you have reached the point in your life where if you want something, you will be able to get it. If that thing is a soda, then you will find a way to procure one, whether it be at the convenience store across the street or your fridge at home. Keeping kids from being able to drink them for the 7 hours is a good start, but if you want kids to stop getting fatter you have to start at home, and at an earlier age.

Masa the Masta

05-04-2006, 07:19 AM

Jon885

05-04-2006, 07:20 AM

I'm a fat fuck and I happen to disagree with this agreement. I don't want the world to cater to my needs, because then the skinny motherfuckers end up hating fat people. Plus I hate diet soda.

Cherub Rock

05-04-2006, 07:31 AM

I'm a fat fuck and I happen to disagree with this agreement. I don't want the world to cater to my needs, because then the skinny motherfuckers end up hating fat people. Plus I hate diet soda.

I don't want the world to cater to your needs either. I'd love to be able to buy whatever I want anywhere. However there is a difference between public schools and private companies. What is bought and sold inside a public school should be up to the tax paying majority (or in reality, the most vocal minority). Simply put, you don't have any right to be able to order a pizza or drink a soft drink inside a highschool. Luckily I haven't stepped inside a highschool in a few years, so I don't have to worry about the consiquences. I like having the choice to eat bad things when I feel like it, because they really do taste better.

If it's an organization trying to get McDonald's to stop selling the McRib then it's one thing. If they're trying to get healthier foods inside highschools, which they pay for with their tax money, then that is their right. They just better let me eat my McRib at McDonalds.

Actually I've never even had a McRib (I don't have much love for McDonalds) but I've heard they are quite tasty.

Jon885

05-04-2006, 07:38 AM

Public schools will make decisions but I don't have to agree with them. The majority can agree on something and I won't. I don't have a problem with the system or how things get done, but I don't agree with the decision. This is a point I haven't argued.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 07:43 AM

You made it hard to quote that so I won't :P I'll just respond.
-----------------------

My point was that it was obvious. "news flash" = sarcasm

---------------------

As far as the namecalling goes.......

Rudeness is different from truth. Truth is "you are fat" Rudeness is "haha fatty!"
You don't know if they have a disease or taking medication that makes them fat (there are some that seriously bloat people up in just a couple months)
You don't know if they're on a diet
You don't know anything about them
You are NEVER going to help anyone out by calling someone a fatty except maybe yourself.
You're treating an entire group of people as if they were one stereotype. This is wrong for racism, but somehow acceptable in this case. It doesn't matter how many are this way or how few do that. Treat everyone with respect and as an individual and all is good.

-----------------

You said
"you can be skinny too"

Someday I can but
I can't be skinny tomorrow
tomorrow someone will look at me and judge me
tomorrow someone may be rude to me because of my weight

---------------------

Oh but I deserve it cause I'm a fatty. I ate wrongly and never exercised cause all fatties are the same. All fatties are lazy and eat junk food all the time!

No wonder people don't do well for long on diets. Nothing changes for a long time while you're trying to lose weight. The world still looks at you the same way for months and months of your efforts.

No, I don't need any encouragement on this aspect. I recognize it for what it is. I know it will take a lot of time and effort before I see results and that until then I need to be judged as every fat person is.

However, next person who is rude to me because of my weight will get the crap beat out of them for being an asshole. :)

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 07:43 AM

Masa the Masta

05-04-2006, 07:45 AM

Praetorian is a god among the obese sheep. Follow the Praetorian.

Jay

05-04-2006, 07:48 AM

*blindly follows the Praetorian*

Cherub Rock

05-04-2006, 07:52 AM

Mystical, if you're so fat don't you think it'd be better to excersise regurally instead of doing retarded dieting? Just eat healthy, drink lots of water instead of 'diet soda', and excersise hard at least 5 hours a week.

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down cowboy. 5 hours? That's a pretty big commitment for something as trivial as your life.

Masa the Masta

05-04-2006, 07:54 AM

Actually, I respect Praetorian's opinions on this subject. If he says 5 hours, then by god, 5 hours it is.

Jay

05-04-2006, 08:05 AM

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down cowboy. 5 hours? That's a pretty big commitment for something as trivial as your life.

5 hours a week is just the start. They recommend 30 minutes of walking, or playing frisbee, or gardening - physical exercise - a day, just to maintain your health and wellbeing.

Ain't gonna do shit if you actually want to LOSE the weight, rather than keep your current shape and wellbeing.

Overkongen

05-04-2006, 08:10 AM

I used to sympathize with fatties. But no more. I blame reality TV.

When I was but a wee runt, I had been told about the genetics issue, and bought into it. I played a lot of volleyball with this one girl, who ate together with the rest of her family, and while they were all skinny, she would still be plumpy. And she exercised regularly. I figure that would have to be some kind of genetic/metabolic fuckup, for which she can't be blamed.

I've done heaps of different sports in my life, tho, and it's really really rare to see the chubbies get active.

And now to reality TV. There's two of them in Denmark right now. First one is where these here experts go visit fatties, and look at their food intake for a month, and start correcting it. They haven't really been around a fattie who ate healthily, or did any exercise yet. And then there's a horrible reality show sequel. There was the obese lady, who became famous because she got her shit together, exercised, and started eating healthily. Lo and behold, she lost a lot of weight. Then, she toured the nation, telling everyone how losing weight was possible, and how it had given her soooo much more energy and happiness in her life. 6 months later, she's back. She's as big as ever. And now, we get to follow her while she prepares for surgery. She's gonna have her stomach tightened in, so she won't be able to eat as much. On this show, she cries constantly, about how surgery is the only way this will ever work, and bla bla bla...

I'm thinking... She's already proven earlier that she was fully capable of losing weight, so while surgery may be needed, it should be for adding some backbone, not tying her stomach down. And back when she told everyone about how really great it was to be thin? Seems it wasn't as great at cake, though.

To sum up: Being overweight is okay. Whining and moaning about it, is not. Also, the australian government is fascist.

kitsunepixie

05-04-2006, 08:34 AM

Diet soda is definitely not something you want to be dependent on...studies have shown that drinking it actually causes people to EAT MORE during meals than they would if they were drinking regular soda or water. That's what everyone should be drinking: water, and lots of it.

And there ARE many people who do drink over 2 L of soda (regular) a day! Y'know those "Big Chugs" from convenience stores? People don't realize they're taking in over 2,000 Calories a day from what they drink alone!

PiccoloNamek

05-04-2006, 09:03 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitive_Eating

If that doesn't work for you, there must be something wrong, either chemically, hormonally, genetically, or because you're lazy or lack self-control. So far, I've lost lost 30 lbs just from controlling my eating. The hardest part was learning what true hunger felt like. Once you learn to discern the need to eat from wanting to eat, it's smooth sailing.

And I have to agree with kitsune, soda is bad, bad, bad. I used to work at a gas station where the manager gave us free fountain drinks, and boy did I abuse that privilege! I also bought lots of snacks and candy every day and often ordered pizza for dinner, and ate nearly the whole thing. I was well on my way to becoming a fat fuck. 5'11'' tall and over 200lbs! But one day I got tired of being a porker, and stopped with the coke and candy altogether. I started walking and doing aerobic workouts daily, and my weight quickly dropped to 180lbs. Go me! I remained that way for three years, and learned that my eating habits still needed some refinement. I started eating only when I felt truly hungry, and always ate slowly enough so that I could actually tell when I was full. I ended up eating much less often, and much smaller portions each time.

Now I weigh only 160lbs, and I look and feel great. It only took me about 4 months to go from 180 to 160. The nice thing about eating in this manner is that I don't deprive myself of anything I enjoy. Toaster strudels, Oeros, Pop-Tarts, Mountain Dew, candies of all sorts, pizza, tacos, etc are all a part of my diet. The difference is that now, I don't pig out on them.

They recommend 30 minutes of walking, or playing frisbee, or gardening - physical exercise - a day, just to maintain your health and wellbeing.

Well then I'm doing well! I make at least 2 or 3 one-mile round trips to the gas station every day, just for the hell of it. (I usually don't buy anything, the gas station is just a good turn-around point.) Let's not even mention how much DDR I play. You know something? My neighbors are all lazy slobs. I've seen people in my neighborhood get in their cars, pull out, and drive ONE HOUSE DOWN and pull into their neighbor's driveway! One house down! What is wrong with these people? I walk miles every day and they can't be bothered to walk 25 feet to visit their neighbor? Jesus Christ.

And of course, they were driving a large SUV.

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 09:12 AM

Kass

05-04-2006, 10:34 AM

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 10:38 AM

I read about this indian guy(from india) once where his parents never ever let him taste anything with sugar in it. His parents died when he was 40 or around that age... once they died he decided to taste a candy... apparently it put him in the hospital because his body wasn't used to it - he was interviewed saying that it was worth it and he would do it again

Kass

05-04-2006, 10:45 AM

I actually support taking the sodas out of schools--but not because they "cause" *cough*bullshit*cough* obesity. I want them out because sugar causes kids to become hyper and agitated. I always pity the teachers their after lunch class, all those kids on a sugar high. The the one after that has to put up with the inevitable crash after the high.

Kids would be able to concentrate better and there'd be fewer behavior problems if they weren't hopped up on sugar and caffeine.

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 10:48 AM

Police Officer Wiggam:

"Look everybody... Flanders hopped up on Goofballs"

Cool Bones

05-04-2006, 12:49 PM

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 12:52 PM

nothing replaces sugar Mwuahahahaha

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 01:08 PM

Actually, I respect Praetorian's opinions on this subject. If he says 5 hours, then by god, 5 hours it is.

Mind, 5 hours at the very least. 5 hours should be the start, like Jay said.

Radiance

05-04-2006, 01:32 PM

Yeah, because removing soda and snacks from vending machines will obviously make kids more healthy, when all the cafeteria serves is pizza and burgers. GG schools.

That isn't all they serve. That is just all the kids will eat because the rest of it tastes like crap. I'm sorry, if the bacon bits didn't cut the roof of my mouth I would have had a salad in high school, or if the eggs in the other type of salad didn't smell rotten maybe I would have concidered that. Frankly, we all know school food blows, they really need to work on that if they're going to take away Ala'cart menues and such.

CrazyAce86

05-04-2006, 01:33 PM

When I was in HS, we weren't allowed to have any soda at all. Not even for parties, though people snuck it in anway.

You couldn't even bring a can of Coke or whatever from home; it would be taken from you and dumped. And thermoses weren't allowed, so you couldn't sneak it in that way.

They took our machines away, but the funny thing is that neither of them were soda machines! It was water and Frutopia! But they took those away and gave us a cold tea machine (which was UGH of the highest order. They may call it green tea, but this green tea tastes like crap) a different water machine, and an orange juice machine. The OJ machine was nice, but it only worked half the time. >_<

That's why I love college. I'm in class right now and drinking coffee. :D

Kass

05-04-2006, 01:37 PM

yes and the thing that replaces sugar (aspartam?) gives cancer

The study of aspartame and lab rats was refuted. (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/120/113898.htm)

Even the link between saccharin and cancer is being called into question. The process by which the saccharin causes cancer ONLY occurs in rats. (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/artificial-sweeteners) Human epidemiology studies have shown that process doesn't occur in people. It's been de-listed, but there is still debate about whether or not it causes cancer in humans.

The rats were fed obscenely high doses of saccharin, roughly equivalent to eating pounds of the stuff on a regular, almost daily, basis

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 01:39 PM

poor ::sniff:: poor poor rats

can we take a collection for the rats? heal the world ppl... heal the world

Kass

05-04-2006, 01:43 PM

We really should feel bad about the rats. Saccharin has sucha horrible after taste and they don't make little enough toothbrushes for the poor guys.

Lang

05-04-2006, 02:29 PM

In America my parents had me bring my lunch if I wanted to eat which meant making a sandwich and some fruit and whatever random bag of chips we had. Sadly, I was usually way too lazy to make one and often just waited until I was home to eat. The school at food is really overpriced and really unhealthy so even if I had money I wouldn`t really want to buy it anyway...
In Japan though my host-mother wakes up really early every morning and makes my host-sister`s and me our obento :3 It`s always so delicious and healthy and it`s awesome.

Mysticalmelody

05-04-2006, 02:36 PM

You get used to it. Regular sodas give me an aftertaste, especially dr. pepper cause I'm used to diet.

As far as intuitive eating goes, it may make you lose weight but if you don't eat healthy foods when you're hungry you will not get all the necessary vitamins and nutrition you need. Oreos and mountain dew won't do it. :P

In response to prae:

I like dieting. It works for me. Who says I don't exercise too? I exercise when I want to and when I have time. 5 hours isn't easy to find in my busy life. I'd rather choose to do stocking at work since I have to be at work anyway and something gets done in the process.

I know that with my diet, no matter what I did in the day, I will have burned off more calories than I consumed which is making me lose weight. I'm doing well, suffering minimally and it's working well for me.

Kass

05-04-2006, 02:40 PM

School food is over priced? It's less than two bucks for a meal (meat, veggie, bread and milk). I don't know of anyplace else you can get a meal that cheap.

If you are in high school and buy a la carte, then yes, it is more expensive. It's also up to you choose healthy options if you do that. Both buying a la carte and what you eat are entirely your choice. No one is putting a gun to your head making you take fries instead of a salad.

Lang

05-04-2006, 03:21 PM

Hmm, yeah, I guess it`s by highschool standards being overpriced. The cheapest thing that wasn`t out of the vending machine was $1.25 I think... and the highest was $2.75. I`m not sure how much the healthier foods were. I know they had a salad, but they stopped serving soup.
Sometimes I have to remind myself that I really do like healthier foods and that they make me feel better. Usually if I try not to snack between meals too. I really cut out a lot of the sugary sweet things by doing that~ so I just tell myself it`s a waste of money to buy snacks.

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 03:30 PM

In response to prae:

I like dieting. It works for me. Who says I don't exercise too? I exercise when I want to and when I have time. 5 hours isn't easy to find in my busy life. I'd rather choose to do stocking at work since I have to be at work anyway and something gets done in the process.

I know that with my diet, no matter what I did in the day, I will have burned off more calories than I consumed which is making me lose weight. I'm doing well, suffering minimally and it's working well for me.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if you're young dieting can sometimes do more harm than good.

Also, how do you diet? Do you still eat regurally, albeit healthy? Remember not to skip a meal and try to eat (healthy) 6 times a day. And really, try water instead of diet soda.

andrewt

05-04-2006, 03:32 PM

japan will be next? they're trying to copy america too!
doubtful.
walking everywhere = calories burned.
i found i lost weight there even tho i didn't necessarily eat healthy.

on a side note - i found myself overweight a year ago. so i exercised and ate a more proper calorie amount (without lying to myself about how many calories were actually in things)... and lost 40 lbs in 2.5 months.

if losing weight is so different for so many people, how come the same basic- eat right and workout formula lead to all those people on "The Biggest Loser" getting down to the proper weight for their height?

Lang

05-04-2006, 03:38 PM

Gah, so much walking in Japan and so many hills. It definitely has kept me from gaining any weight since I arrived.

Jess

05-04-2006, 04:01 PM

I'm not fat. My metabolism is just more efficient than yours.

:innocent:

Klilynkun

05-04-2006, 04:04 PM

hehe :rofl:

Kiari

05-04-2006, 04:24 PM

Always be careful when you call a bigger woman a fattie... because she may very well be able to beat you down like the ass you are. I really hate the attitude of some on this thread because I am one of those 'fatties'... and I probably live a healthier life than most of you. It's considered bad to refer to someone who appears slow as a retard, though they may either be just lazy or actually have a learning disability, so why is it okay to call someone, who may be lazy or may have a medical problem, a fattie?

I'm 240, size 18 in the hips, smaller in the waist with broad shoulders. I run daily, I lift weights, and do sports... I walk to work, I don't take elevators. I eat healthier than just about everyone I know, mainly rice, veggies and fruit. And... as some have discovered, finding out the 'fattie' you just shouted at can actually outrun you when she's aiming to kick you in the nuts is embarrassing, not to mention painful. Though sometimes I'm nice and simply respond with racial slurs.

Be particularly careful calling a woman a fattie if she happens to be carrying the shinai for her kendo class later that night...

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 04:30 PM

Always be careful when you call a bigger woman a fattie... because she may very well be able to beat you down like the ass you are.

Not a chance.

By the way, you are a very aggressive person. Might want to tone down a little.

PiccoloNamek

05-04-2006, 04:33 PM

Couldn't catch me.

Although having been fat, I wouldn't be calling anybody else a fattie either.

Jay

05-04-2006, 04:40 PM

Not a chance.

Care to put a little e-money on that?

I know a chick who's a few years older than me. Plus-size, but she wears is well. Has extra padding. Awesome eyes.

Could beat your arse down to the ground in a second.

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 04:46 PM

Care to put a little e-money on that?

Without a doubt.

Kiari

05-04-2006, 04:48 PM

Praet,

Yes, constantly being treated like shit for something I can't control does tend to make me aggressive about it. I imagine it would piss you off and make you sensitive to the subject too.

Piccolo, maybe there's a coorelation between out of shape people who tend to carry on about other's weight? The guy the afformentioned chasing happened too follow me around for about 30 minutes bitching about my fatness and mocking me to put down a chocolate bar and do a sit up. He got winded at around 2km.

Praetorian

05-04-2006, 04:56 PM

Kiari

05-04-2006, 05:04 PM

Well, if it was just a single comment, I wouldn't have either. (I guess it also depends on your version of 'badly'. A very strong kick to the nuts was delivered.)

Random

05-04-2006, 05:08 PM

In the UK high schools:
Lunch is provided as part of the bill. You don't buy it at the time, kids don't need to take in money, and you get either something hot (two choices, and it's good food), you can have pasta (with two different sauces to choose from), salad bar if you're not too hungry, plus a vegetarian option and you can also get a jacket potato. There's a small dessert, plus either juice or water.

For those who bring in food from home, we're allowed to bring in anything we like, and yet I've only seen someone bring in soda two or three times.

I pretty much drink only water - heck, I don't even like anything carbonated, nor most still drinks - walk about a mile a day on school days OUTSIDE school, plus all the walking we do in school - as well as the three hour games session every Thursday afternoon - and barely anyone in my school is really overweight. No one is really really large, at all.

Now why don't we all aspire to be more like the UK? :D

nb: I realise that not all the UK schools have it so good, but none the less most are still very, very good when it comes to things like this. Plus, the general school system is you get what you're given for school lunch, and it's all already paid for - or you bring in a packed lunch.
Not being able to just buy a bag of crisps or cookies or something for lunch means people tend to actually eat the decent food.

Morel

05-04-2006, 06:53 PM

Of course.. Aspartame is such a Good thing to drink..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame

andrewt

05-04-2006, 07:09 PM

...because I am one of those 'fatties'... and I probably live a healthier life than most of you.
[snip]
so why is it okay to call someone, who may be lazy or may have a medical problem, a fattie?

I'm 240, size 18 in the hips, smaller in the waist with broad shoulders. I run daily, I lift weights, and do sports... I walk to work, I don't take elevators. I eat healthier than just about everyone I know, mainly rice, veggies and fruit.

you know..., when i see someone overweight starting to train, i get pretty pumped up for them because i think it's good that their training.

that being said, back to the goodness of reality TV - many of those contestants on the biggest loser said they thought they were doing thing the "right way" but it just wasn't working.
How come when they started the program there, all of a sudden it started working for them?

Ah well, no big deal.

a side note... i don't see any overweight people here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgS2y3Rkx2I&search=ironman%20addicted%20drug

take it as inspiration.
anyone can do an ironman if they really train (there are people there that have had to overcome a lot more difficult problems than obesity. see the girl who did the full ironman Kona with 1 leg (that's 112 miles bike and 26.2 miles run on 1 leg).

another nice quote (name that movie):

Lance Armstrong: "Quit? You know, once I was thinking of quitting when I was diagnosed with brain, lung and testicular cancer all at the same time. But with the love and support of my friends and family, I got back on the bike and won the Tour de France five times in a row. But I'm sure you have a good reason to quit. So what are you dying of that's keeping you from the finals?"

Kass

05-04-2006, 08:43 PM

Of course.. Aspartame is such a Good thing to drink..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame

I never said it was a good thing, but if people are going to claim this, that and the other thing cause cancer, they should be able to back it up.

~~

US schools provide free/reduced price lunches to students who cannot afford them. They have to take the meal and can't opt to buy a la carte. Also, Americans also don't get a bill for public schooling. It's provided out of property taxes.

Students who can afford the $1.80 for a lunch pay for it.

The lunches are pretty good anymore too. I've eaten them when I've visited my kiddo's school.

Monday, April 3
Choose one entree:
Chicken Tenders w/Muffin
Beef Teriyaki Rice Bowl
Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwich
Yogurt w/Pretzel

Choice of Two Fruits or Vegetables:
Whipped Potatoes w/Gravy
Orange Quarters
Applesauce
Dried Cherries

Tuesday, April 4
Choose one entree:
Nacho Tortillas w/Chili & Cheese Sauce
Deluxe Hot Ham & Cheese Sub
Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwich
Yogurt w/Pretzel

Choice of Two Fruits or Vegetables:
Potato Wedges
Golden Corn
Celery/Carrots w/Dip
Watermelon
Lettuce & Tomato

Wednesday, April 5
Choose one entree:
Spaghetti w/Breadstick
w/Meat Sauce or Marinara Sauce
Chicken Fillet on Bun
Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwich
Yogurt w/Pretzel

Choice of Two Fruits or Vegetables:
French Fries
Green Peas
Tossed Salad
Chilled Pineapple
Fresh Apple

The Divine Comedy

05-04-2006, 08:51 PM

I'd eat healthier at school if I COULD. The "healthy" stuff is absolutely disgusting for the most part and the normal stuff (Pizza, french fries, etc.) usually has enough grease to be labeled "Heart-Attack in a Meal." I wish the schools would think to put more funding or thought toward good, healthy food. I know that most of us students would eat healthier if we had the option to do so and still have good-tasting food.

From what I've seen, high schools get the least attention on the food front. I remember back in elementary school, when our food was actually alright. And people keep on lobbying for good/healthy/etc. food for the younger kids. But we don't seem to get as much attention and get stuck with the food rejects. At least that's what I've seen in my school. I really hate public schools sometimes... *sigh*

gyoza

05-04-2006, 08:55 PM

another nice quote (name that movie):

Lance Armstrong: "Quit? You know, once I was thinking of quitting when I was diagnosed with brain, lung and testicular cancer all at the same time. But with the love and support of my friends and family, I got back on the bike and won the Tour de France five times in a row. But I'm sure you have a good reason to quit. So what are you dying of that's keeping you from the finals?"

Off the top of my head: Dodgeball?

andrewt

05-04-2006, 09:05 PM

Off the top of my head: Dodgeball?
正解！ (せいかい)... (correct!)....

jihei18

05-04-2006, 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=The Divine Comedy]I'd eat healthier at school if I COULD. The "healthy" stuff is absolutely disgusting for the most part and the normal stuff (Pizza, french fries, etc.) usually has enough grease to be labeled "Heart-Attack in a Meal." I wish the schools would think to put more funding or thought toward good, healthy food. I know that most of us students would eat healthier if we had the option to do so and still have good-tasting food.

I had to go to American public food for a spell, and I flat-out refused to eat the food there, although I qualified for free meals. I would bring my own meals. Sure it took more effort, but I'm healthier for it.

Kuroshi

05-04-2006, 09:46 PM

The irony at my school, is the fact that, though they're getting rid of sodas after this year, a year ago, they replaced all the vending machines (you know, normal ones, that sell all sorts of stuff), with ones that sell nothing but CANDY.

Bloody hypocrite schools..

wimmpy

05-04-2006, 11:56 PM

The problem with fat kids in highschool is that diet they have. Fast Food and soda is the norm.

Hell, I went into my old school and saw a Pizza Hut stall and Burger King stall. Getting rid of the soda was good, but how about getting rid of the fast food in school now. I know the school gets paid to have the fast food stalls in there, but they are not helping the kids. They should only sell water in schools.

An adult male needs to drink 1 gallon (3.7854118 liters) of water a day to keep the water weight off and be healthy.

An adult female needs to drink 3 quarts (2.85 liters) of water.

Exercise everyday. Push-ups are FUN! :cop:

Mysticalmelody

05-05-2006, 01:15 AM

Kiari THANK you for showing up I thought I was the only one on this board for a while who understood. It's true, when you've spent your entire life being called something, you become very sensitive to it. When a little kid calls me something like that I can brush it off and say well whatever he doesn't know any better really. By the time you're in high school though you ought to know. I know many of you don't understand how much a name can hurt. You're very lucky you don't.

I'm a peaceful woman, not very confrontational. I will however defend myself if I feel it's necessary. That includes defending myself against verbal assault from rude assholes who never learned to grow up. I can kick ass if I want to and ass will be kicked if I hear any person high school age or older call me a rude name.

---------------------------

I'm not sure how old you are, but if you're young dieting can sometimes do more harm than good.

Also, how do you diet? Do you still eat regurally, albeit healthy? Remember not to skip a meal and try to eat (healthy) 6 times a day. And really, try water instead of diet soda.

No offense meant but .... My last post was meant to reassure you that I had things handled as far as my diet goes. Apparently though you still doubt my ability to handle my own weight loss and feel the need to educate me on the "right way" as if there were one way that worked for everyone.

To satisfy your curiosities:
I'm 19.
I need to diet if I ever want to lose weight. (I have reasons I don't want to go into.)
I eat 3 meals a day, or 2 and a few snacks that make up a meal, something like that ... whatever I have time for. My diet is a diet right now but the healthy eating will never end. I plan on eating healthier foods as long as I live. When I reach the weight I want I can eat a little larger variety of foods. However, no more king size snicker bars or double cheeseburgers for me. My diet is basically: reducing my calorie intake to 1000-1500 calories a day. I eat enough food to fill me because it is all healthy food that is low in calorie. Lots of grilled chicken, pretzels, salads, oatmeal, lean pockets, sugarfree jello, dole fruit cups, chicken noodle soup, etc.

Thanks for the concern, really but I can handle myself. Also, drinking diet soda is my choice. I understand your concerns. I've heard your side, and I've made the best decision for me... (that decision would be... not changing a thing :D)

05-05-2006, 02:04 AM

You need to care less about what other people say/think. They are usually morons.

Cherub Rock

05-05-2006, 02:27 AM

Mysticalmelody, I don't think he genuinely wants to help you as much as he wants you to know healthy ways to lose weight. Show off that big brain of his, you know? If you wanted to get down to a lower weight you would need to incorporate exercise and cut out a few things you are still doing, but if you are comfortable at your current weight then that is all that matters. I don't have a problem with people being overweight unless it becomes an eyesore or a health issue.

I will say that I will never order Chinese from this one resturant again. Not after a fat dude with his jelly roll hanging out from the bottom of his black t-shirt delivered me my chow mein. I just hope he didn't drive here with it in his lap. I felt fatter by association when I took the food from him. I think I gave him a bigger tip than I wanted to because I didn't want to be near him to get my change...

setrict

05-05-2006, 02:50 AM

I'm sure you already know everything, since you aren't willing to take seemingly well meant advice. For anyone else that might be reading Praetorian made a good point about 6 meals a day, and the water too.

Your body deals with food in cycles, and takes a while to switch. If you go long periods between meals, you're body switches to starvation mode, and starts storing fat the next time you eat and lowers your metabolism to conserve energy. This means you are forcing your body to slow down and not burn as much fat, even though your 'diet' may reduce your caloric intake. Most of the reading I've done suggests that by the time you 'feel' hungry, you're body is already switching modes.

The recommended 6 meals a day, well spaced, whether you are hungry or not keeps your body out of the starvation mode and keeps your metabolism high, so you start to burn the stored fat.

The artificial sweetner causes sugar cravings, making all that much harder to stay on the right path. I lost 15 lbs in 1 month by substituting water for soda, and no other changes.

And yeah, I'm fat and feel your pain. One of my most embarassing memories is having scoliosis exams in PE. As I was bending over for the exam, one bastard jokes "damn, he's got bigger tits than my girlfriend" to the other 45 or so people present. It was really quite funny, but it took about 10 years before I could laugh about it. I've gotten pretty close to in-shape since, but fell off the wagon a couple years ago. This thread is irritating enough, I think I'm going to go get back on that wagon. It's either that or get angry and think how much I'd like to kick that comedians ass. It's been 20 years, and yeah... I still hold a grudge.

Mysticalmelody

05-05-2006, 03:51 AM

If you wanted to get down to a lower weight you would need to incorporate exercise and cut out a few things you are still doing, but if you are comfortable at your current weight then that is all that matters.

LOL ....Soooo ... me losing 27 pounds in just a month and a half doing the diet I described must have been a miracle of science! Those foods I mentioned are pretty much all i've been eating. What are the things you think I need to cut out before any weight loss occurs? (even though much weight has already been lost doing whatever it is you think I'm doing wrong :P ) Also, when did I say I didn't exercise?

--------------------------------

Setrict:

I know what works for me. That was my point. I considered Prae's advice, and I chose not to folow it for my own reasons. I am not required to follow prae's advice, and I can guarantee that if I don't my weight will continue dropping as it has so far. I don't believe that in my diet plan, quitting drinking diet soda will have much effect. Especially since I don't drink that much of it in the first place. Water in the morning, soda at lunch, rarely soda with dinner, (usually milk) and water at night.

As far as the effects of drinking diet soda you mentioned go, (Even though I can't remember a time where this happened) with my diet it won't matter if i get a sugar craving after sonsuming diet soda because my mind auto-says "you're on a diet girl, you can't eat that ^.^" and since I do have an ounce of self discipline, i don't.

I prefer small meals spaced out, but on some days I just cannot possibly do that, (like when I have class from 9-2 and work from 3-7:30, or on days I see my boyfriend - you know food is the last thing on my mind those days! ;)) ... so on days like those I'll have three regular meals instead.

for the third time let me point out that doing what i'm doing is already working out fine. Maybe I could speed up the process by sacrificing yet more time to exercise or something but for now i'm happy with things the way they are.

EvilFred

05-05-2006, 01:37 PM

And yeah, I'm fat and feel your pain. One of my most embarassing memories is having scoliosis exams in PE. As I was bending over for the exam, one bastard jokes "damn, he's got bigger tits than my girlfriend" to the other 45 or so people present. It was really quite funny, but it took about 10 years before I could laugh about it. I've gotten pretty close to in-shape since, but fell off the wagon a couple years ago. This thread is irritating enough, I think I'm going to go get back on that wagon. It's either that or get angry and think how much I'd like to kick that comedians ass. It's been 20 years, and yeah... I still hold a grudge.
That's really awful. I wish I could help you kick his ass.

Overkongen

05-05-2006, 01:40 PM

I wish I could have seen his girlfriend's tits.

Klilynkun

05-05-2006, 01:42 PM

hehe hehehe lololol ololol:rofl:

me too :eyepop:

Mysticalmelody

05-05-2006, 02:46 PM

You need to care less about what other people say/think. They are usually morons.
I meant to reply to this in my last post but alas I forgot. I don'treally care what strangers thinkof me. I could give a shit if a few morons thought bad things of me because of how I look. What gets to me is how people think that because of my appearance, treating me like shit is okay. It really gives people the jollies for some reason. It must if they're willing to throw all rules of politeness aside to do it. You can have all the negative opinions of me that you want but don't decide it's okay to treat me differently because of them.

----------------------------------

That reminds me...
Last night my boyfriend and his friend was talking to me and the friend made a rude joke about me being fat. This guy is pretty much a freak with no social skills whatsoever. He really doesn't have any idea how to shut his mouth. Every once in a while he'll do this, and both me and my bf have told him to quit it. He just won't get it through his head that calling a lady fat is never okay, and especially not so when it's your best friends girl and you've been told repeatedly to quit it. He has actually said to me before:

him talking to me: Hey isabel?(his online gf's name) ... Oh oops... I don't know why I said that. My girlfriend is skinnier than you. A lot skinnier in fact.

...like it were the most natural thing to say... :P Not only this but the guy has previously asked me out of the blue whether i was a virgin, whether i was wearing a bra, and what bra size I was... Things just seem to slip out of his mouth, yet he'll even say things right after you tell him not to. He's always being inappropriate and rude. Too bad many of the times he is rude are online where I can't smack him.
Did I mention he was only 10 pounds less than me, and about the same height. He looks fatter than me and he's ugly too and last night online he was going on and on about how he truely thought I was beyond fat. This was to replace where a normal person would have apologized about their first rude comment. He doesn't apologize because it's simply easier to make 4 or 5 more and attempt to justify them all. I seriously don't know what to do with him anymore. Due to the fact he's obsessed with my bf in an abnormal fashion, I can't really avoid talking to him altogether.

setrict

05-05-2006, 03:18 PM

I wish I could have seen his girlfriend's tits.

It was 6th grade... :eyepop: They didn't even have all those growth hormones in the food supply back in my day either, so you wouldn't be seeing much!

gyoza

05-06-2006, 05:47 AM

He had a girlfriend in 6th grade? :eyepop:

Praetorian

05-06-2006, 06:24 AM

My seven year old female cousin already had a boyfriend. :P

But then he broke up, and now she's angry and is trying to avoid him.

Kids are retarded sometimes.

kitsunepixie

05-06-2006, 06:24 AM

No one food or drink item is going to kill anyone unless they consume it to excess. For cying out loud, too much water can kill you (http://www.webmd.com/content/article/42/1671_51282.htm). Sure, it isn't easy to do, except possibly for athletes working out in excessive heat, but it is possible--just like it is possible to eat too much and get fat.

Soda isn't the cause of obesity. Fatty foods don't cause obesity. Too much candy doesn't cause obesity. McDonalds doesn't cause obesity. Eating too much, especially too much of less than healthy foods, and lack of exercise causes obesity. A piece of cheesecake every once in a while or a soda from time to time isn't going to kill anyone.

*nods* That's common sense. Too bad a lot of people simply don't realize how simple it all is. :/

The recommended 6 meals a day, well spaced, whether you are hungry or not keeps your body out of the starvation mode and keeps your metabolism high, so you start to burn the stored fat.

The artificial sweetner causes sugar cravings, making all that much harder to stay on the right path. I lost 15 lbs in 1 month by substituting water for soda, and no other changes.

A piece of cheesecake every once in a while or a soda from time to time isn't going to kill anyone.

That's my magic formula for staying fit. Keep up my energy levels, drink plenty of water (it keeps your skin in good condition, too) and some tea, and treat myself every once in a while. Desserts become simply orgasmic when you make them an experience rather than a daily habit! That and kickboxing...one of the best exercises ever (if you ignore the bodily harm that comes from your opponent if you get hit)! It not only whips you into shape, but it's fun, makes you feel AND become badass, AND you can actually use it in the real world against insensitive pricks who like to crush other people's feelings by using words like "fatty!" :frypan:

drinking water makes me ridiculously hungry. what about drinking fruit juice?

Fruit juice should be drunk sparingly. A lot of times they have more sugar added to them than Coke!

bakagaijin

05-06-2006, 06:25 AM

that's messed up.... well there's always water or juice if you don't like diet...

I'll look this up later, but fruit juice is not as healthy as you might think, especially as far as caloric content. It often has extra sugar added. I'm wondering how it compares to an average cola.

Cherub Rock

05-06-2006, 03:04 PM

Fruit juice is good for you but you gotta buy the right brands. Some of that stuff really is worse than soda in terms of caloric intake, although it still isn't empty calories.

Praetorian

05-06-2006, 03:27 PM

Mysticalmelody, I don't think he genuinely wants to help you as much as he wants you to know healthy ways to lose weight. Show off that big brain of his, you know?

Yeah, that must be it. I post information on how I lost 60 pounds in a healthy way, and turned from a couch potatoe to an amateur athlete not to help people but to show off my intelligence. Which is also why I helped Joey (h2orowe) - not because I care about him, oh no, I just want the world to tremble in fear before me and my gigantic brain. Which is of course the reason I'm debating about random useless things in the General Discussion with the rest of the intellectual elite.

Oh, wait.

No, seriously - I really want people to lose weight. I know how it is to be fat and be discriminated against, and now I know how good it feels to be doing sports whenever I can. It feels fantastic. Better than that, even.

That said, I'll keep my mouth shut in this thread from now on.

Jay

05-06-2006, 03:30 PM

He had a girlfriend in 6th grade? :eyepop:

Most of the kids in my old school had a girlfriend in 6th grade.

I remember when I was in year 3 or something, sitting on the oval during lunch break watching the "big kids" kiss, and them giving us a mouthful for staring! :rofl:

And that was in PRIMARY school. (That's elementary for you weird people.) :eyepop:

Jay

05-06-2006, 03:34 PM

Mysticalmelody, I don't think he genuinely wants to help you as much as he wants you to know healthy ways to lose weight. Show off that big brain of his, you know?

Why not? He DOES have a big brain. May as well put it to use with information and suggestions for Mysticalmelody, and other fat people who honestly want to lose weight.

Don't spout off unless you know what you're talking about.

Pierrot le Fou

05-06-2006, 03:51 PM

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 04:27 PM

Losing weight = Calories(In) < Calories(Out)

Simple, eh?

Eat less than you use in a day, and PRESTO! You lose weight. It's about 3500 Kcal/pound, I believe, which means that if you cut 500 calories out of your diet, you should lose a pound every week or so. Nice and easy.

There are slight complications for some people, due to their body being less considerate with how it process foods (meaning that they take in more from the same amount of food than other people or the like), and of course each person burns a different amount of calories 'at rest' per day.

But in general, it's simple -- take in less than you put out, and you will lose weight.

Yep :) That's my thinking. I <3 chemistry for teaching me that. I always pick foods with low calories, and generally they are healthy foods. Generally 0-100 calories is a snack. 100-200 is a larger snack, or maybe half a meal. 200-300 is even more of a meal 300-400 definitely a meal. Above 400 I try to avoid... sooo typical day is maybe...

260 cal lean pocket and 60 cal mandarine oranges for breakfast
140 cal campbells chicken noodle soup 130 cal strawberry yogurt nutrigrain bar around lunch
100 cal pretzels
330 cal carl's jr salad for dinner
---------------
Total calories: 1020... if I added right.

It's impossible really to find out how many calories I burn in any given day especially considering my activity level fluxuates. But there is no possible way that amount is less than 1000-1500

It isn't just calories though, I also glance at the fat and fat calorie percentage as well as sugars. For example. The Ranch dressing McDonalds gives you is horrible in comparison to Carl's Jr ranch dressing (when you're eating on the go like I do a lot) Mcdonalds dressing has a little more calories but much more fat and a larger fat calorie percentage.

Jay

05-06-2006, 04:30 PM

830cal .

bakagaijin

05-06-2006, 04:45 PM

Yep :) That's my thinking. I <3 chemistry for teaching me that. I always pick foods with low calories, and generally they are healthy foods. Generally 0-100 calories is a snack. 100-200 is a larger snack, or maybe half a meal. 200-300 is even more of a meal 300-400 definitely a meal. Above 400 I try to avoid... sooo typical day is maybe...

260 cal lean pocket and 60 cal mandarine oranges for breakfast
140 cal campbells chicken noodle soup 130 cal strawberry yogurt nutrigrain bar around lunch
100 cal pretzels
330 cal carl's jr salad for dinner
---------------
Total calories: 1020... if I added right.

It's impossible really to find out how many calories I burn in any given day especially considering my activity level fluxuates. But there is no possible way that amount is less than 1000-1500

It isn't just calories though, I also glance at the fat and fat calorie percentage as well as sugars. For example. The Ranch dressing McDonalds gives you is horrible in comparison to Carl's Jr ranch dressing (when you're eating on the go like I do a lot) Mcdonalds dressing has a little more calories but much more fat and a larger fat calorie percentage.

How much do you weigh???

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 04:45 PM

Losing weight = Calories(In) < Calories(Out)

Simple, eh?

Eat less than you use in a day, and PRESTO! You lose weight. It's about 3500 Kcal/pound, I believe, which means that if you cut 500 calories out of your diet, you should lose a pound every week or so. Nice and easy.

There are slight complications for some people, due to their body being less considerate with how it process foods (meaning that they take in more from the same amount of food than other people or the like), and of course each person burns a different amount of calories 'at rest' per day.

But in general, it's simple -- take in less than you put out, and you will lose weight.

But that weight loss will not be maintained if you don't exercise. That's the real key to weight loss. Limiting your intake also limits the stuff you need to live, such as essential vitamins etc etc. Why not just eat normally and exercise like a demon?

Yep :) That's my thinking. I <3 chemistry for teaching me that. I always pick foods with low calories, and generally they are healthy foods. Generally 0-100 calories is a snack. 100-200 is a larger snack, or maybe half a meal. 200-300 is even more of a meal 300-400 definitely a meal. Above 400 I try to avoid... sooo typical day is maybe...

260 cal lean pocket and 60 cal mandarine oranges for breakfast
140 cal campbells chicken noodle soup 130 cal strawberry yogurt nutrigrain bar around lunch
100 cal pretzels
330 cal carl's jr salad for dinner
---------------
Total calories: 1020... if I added right.

It's impossible really to find out how many calories I burn in any given day especially considering my activity level fluxuates. But there is no possible way that amount is less than 1000-1500

It isn't just calories though, I also glance at the fat and fat calorie percentage as well as sugars. For example. The Ranch dressing McDonalds gives you is horrible in comparison to Carl's Jr ranch dressing (when you're eating on the go like I do a lot) Mcdonalds dressing has a little more calories but much more fat and a larger fat calorie percentage.

Wow, I don't care how many calories you intake a day, that daily meal is not healthy at all. Try looking at food that actually has nutrients. Ditch the bloody pretzels. Or better yet, go to a dietician.

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 05:08 PM

Jay, you missed two snacks ;)

Baka, I weigh 205 right now, and I used to weigh 234

Gentleman, that's not what I eat every single day
and the weightloss will be maintained if I never stop eating healthily like I am.
Nutrients? The lean pocket has whole grain crust and good protein. Nonfat pretzels, when I work from 3:00 to 7:30 and get no lunch break are a good thing I can buy there that will keep my hunger down. Salad, chicken noodle soup, oranges, Any other objections? Dieticians need time and money. I have neither.
Why are so many people objecting to me eating healthy? There's nothing wrong with me eating any of the things I am eating, and it ISN'T like i'm hungry alll the time because of them, or even that I sit around the house all day either.
You guys unhappy I found a healthy plan that works well for me? Objecting to pretzels? Come now... x.x

Edit I find it funny that nobody made a big stink about that person *forgot the name* who was doing the intuitive diet where they could eat whatever they want, oreos, chips, whatever, so long as they only ate when they were hungry. Talk about never getting any nutrients. At least i get fruits, vegetables, meat and whole grains EVERY day.

Jay

05-06-2006, 05:16 PM

Jay, you missed two snacks ;)

Oh shit, so I did. :duh:

Still though, it's all very well to say "if I eat this many calories and burn this many calories, I will lose weight". Putting it into practice is another story entirely...

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 05:17 PM

The fact that you base your diet purely on calories is what makes it unhealthy. Just bloody exercise!

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 05:19 PM

Oh shit, so I did. :duh:

Still though, it's all very well to say "if I eat this many calories and burn this many calories, I will lose weight". Putting it into practice is another story entirely...

Hehehe weellll ... Call that story mine :) I've got pretty good willpower. It makes things easier when the rules are simple too, helps me not cheat.

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 05:22 PM

The fact that you base your diet purely on calories is what makes it unhealthy. Just bloody exercise!

HOW many times do i need to say on this thread that I DO exercise. I believe I said it in my last post even. I always have exercised. It didn't do much good when I was eating horribly though.

Edit: "Just bloody exercise!" That certainly won't be the solution if you're concerned with getting enough nutrients. You still need to eat healthy too. Eating healthy is really the key.

Jay

05-06-2006, 05:26 PM

The fact that you base your diet purely on calories is what makes it unhealthy. Just bloody exercise!

I used to exercise a lot but still eat what I wanted and I ended up as not the world's thinnest chap... or am I just a one-off example?

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 05:29 PM

What are your forms of "exercising" then? It's fairly straight forward: Your body burns off fat when you use it. There has to be a balance in your diet, yes. But eating very little will only bring your weight down temporarily.

Jay

05-06-2006, 05:39 PM

We're aware of that, but saying "just bloody exercise!" isn't going to solve anything. ;)

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 05:54 PM

Well, say we entertain my fantasies and you do what I say... it will solve something, mainly any health issues you have, along with the weight problem you have as well. Can you really try and debate with me that you'll gain weight if you run for an hour or two a day? No walking. Running.
Theres a reason why you don't see overweight people in professions involving manual labour (barring some forms of construction working where the crane operator just sits on his arse all day).

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 05:57 PM

I'm not eating very little. It's just as much as I always ate, only healthier things. Lesseee .. exercise...

**2-3 hours of playing broomball every other week.
**Work 4-5 days a week, (standing for 4 1/2 to 6 hours straight and often lifting plenty of boxes to stock items on shelves)
**Dancing around the house whenever I feel like it.. hard to say how much I do that, but quite a lot, lol ...I'm a goof. Pretty much whenever I get up to do anything, or if some good music is on.
**Working on my bicycle-like exercise machine 2-3 days a week for 20 mins or so
**I walk places a lot, no car.
**oh, and sex too, lovely sex :P

The process is this.
You need energy(aka calories) for exercise.
Exercise uses up calories.
When you use up more calories than you consume, your body uses the fat you have stored to make up for it, and you lose weight.

Now, I know for a fact there's no way no matter how little exercise I do in a given day that I can burn less than 1000-1500 calories. But, I don't like just sitting around and I want to build up muscle, so I exercise a bit when I can. And like I said, the weight loss won't be temporary, because when I do reach the weight I want I'll still eat healthier than I did, and I'll allow myself to have creamier soups, and the occasional pasta, or mashed potatoes. Calorie intake will be higher then, but it will be more equal to as much as I burn off, rather than below that amount or above it.

Jay

05-06-2006, 06:05 PM

The process is this.
You need energy(aka calories) for exercise.
Exercise uses up calories.
When you use up more calories than you consume, your body uses the fat you have stored to make up for it, and you lose weight.

Yeah, and you also feel hungry... and that's me out of the match, right there. :rofl:

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 06:06 PM

Wonderful, but I would slash out working as supposed exercise, as standing is nothing, as is lifting heavy boxes every now and then (You can be plenty overwieght but have strong arms). The only real exercise is the dancing and bike riding as it's cardiovascular, what you should really worry about.
And thanks, I know the process pretty well.

But my point still stands no matter how hard you refute it. Exercise and live an active lifestyle and you won't generally have health issues like obesity.

Oh and as an aside for diet: if you eat lots of 丼(donburi) like gyuudon (beef on rice), oyakodon (chicken and egg on rice), it's a really healthy meal all around. It's mainly what I eat. In fact, I'm going to get some now. tahtah!

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 06:11 PM

Yeah, and you also feel hungry... and that's me out of the match, right there. :rofl:
naaahh you feel hungry when you digest all of your food so your stomach is empty... I don't get that on my diet. :)

Well, say we entertain my fantasies and you do what I say... it will solve something, mainly any health issues you have, along with the weight problem you have as well. Can you really try and debate with me that you'll gain weight if you run for an hour or two a day? No walking. Running.
Theres a reason why you don't see overweight people in professions involving manual labour (barring some forms of construction working where the crane operator just sits on his arse all day).

I'm not saying I'll gain weight if I exercise even more. I agree that I'd lose it even faster exercising more and keeping the same diet I have now. I'm saying that what I'm doing right now is working VERY well for me and i'm satisfied. There's not a single thing wrong with doing what I'm doing. It could be better, but I'm a full time student who has a boyfriend and who works over 20 hours a week.
almost 30 lbs I've lost in a month and a half... yeah that's okay with me. :)

gentlemanandscholar

05-06-2006, 06:14 PM

A dietician would most likely disagree, but meh. I'm done with this thread.

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 06:41 PM

Let them disagree. I'm not in the business with trying to achieve perfection, especially when in this case, there will always be someone saying "No that isn't enough"

gyoza

05-06-2006, 06:58 PM

Most of the kids in my old school had a girlfriend in 6th grade.

I remember when I was in year 3 or something, sitting on the oval during lunch break watching the "big kids" kiss, and them giving us a mouthful for staring! :rofl:

And that was in PRIMARY school. (That's elementary for you weird people.) :eyepop:

Dude, relationship ages are getting younger and younger these days. Before long I'll be an old fogey going to newborns for advice on how to get chicks. :P

As for the diet/exercise debate, I think most people who diet and don't exercise hate exercising, and as such they'd rather deprive themselves of good food than subject themselves to exercise. I went through such a stage myself, but it's all a matter of finding an exercise/sport you enjoy.

Mysticalmelody

05-06-2006, 07:07 PM

I looove snorkling and camping/hiking, etc most. Unfortunately both take a lot of time that I don't have. :P I'm all about doing something as I exercise, and having fun. I'm not one for exercise like what you'd do at the gym unless i'm trying to strengthen something. Though i think i'd like walking at a good pace on a treadmill. I need to get myself one of those...
Anyhow, I'm really looking forward to my country dancing class next semester. I like to dance, so it should be a lot of fun! :D Also my bf said he'd actually LIKE to go with me to a country dancing place, whereas he usually tells me he hates dancing. Yayness :)

Edit: Oh yeah! I also like huge trampolines! I'm sooo getting one whenever i get older and buy a house with a backyard big enough.

Pierrot le Fou

05-07-2006, 02:58 PM

But that weight loss will not be maintained if you don't exercise. That's the real key to weight loss. Limiting your intake also limits the stuff you need to live, such as essential vitamins etc etc. Why not just eat normally and exercise like a demon?

Do you have any idea how hard it is to burn calories through excercise as opposed to limiting your intake?

Of course not.

Read here for a sampling. (http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist.htm)

The highest calorie-burning activity on that list is bicycle racing (over 20mph) for an hour, and that only burns 1380 calories in that hour. At 190 pounds. It's a lot easier to cut 1380 calories out of your diet than it is to do that much biking -- and I'm a rather fit individual who bicycles for around 45-60 minutes per day at relatively quick speeds.

Excercise takes time, and it takes a LOT of effort, as well as having fewer rewards (calorie-wise) in the short-term than dieting. Over the long term it will increase your metabolism, make you more fit, etc. etc. but in the short-term it's a LOT of effort for little reward. When pro body-builders want to lose weight, they don't do a ton of excercise, they diet like Hell, and alternate with body-building, in order to maximize the benefits of each.

I don't think MM's calorie intake is incredibly wonderful either, but I don't think that breaking her back with excercise is going to make up for a lackluster diet either.

kilreli

05-07-2006, 04:11 PM

Because SOME people get fat drinking soda, everyone else, including those who don't must suffer? I

We're turning into Japan.:eyepop: You will suffer, we all will suffer, resistance is futile.

"Come to work. Everyday. The kids will suffer, we will suffer, we will all suffer together splendidly. If you are not suffering, you are not Japanese."

also the one for the weather goes here too. thats the one i wanted to use...but im too tired..

Hitokage

05-07-2006, 04:59 PM

Man... the asthma thing, I swear every time, I tried my best to make it in on time hoping my teacher wouldn't take away points that day, I breathed so hard it gave me an icy feeling in my chest. Those times we had to do bleachers and run the mile I was screwed. I'd come in to my next period with my face freakishly pink/red from the blood rush to my face, and my hands swelled so much they were stiff.

I am slightly overweight. I'm not fat, but I know I could afford to loose a few pounds.

I live with a form of "asthma" that can be so bad some days I want to cry. About 4-5 years ago, I had pnemonial bronchitis. I coughed so harshly for four months, when I came back from x-mas break my teacher though I was dying and almost called 911. (No, seriously, I was ordered away from work and given excused absence from a school where death (yours or family) or surgery was the only excuse absence.) It tore apart all of the muscles in my chest and diaphram because I coughed even in my sleep.

I had a very, very light asthma before that but now, even sitting at my computer, it hurts to breath. The muscles (uh, bluntly) just under my breasts and above my belly button tend to hurt all the hours I'm awake. Even wearing a bra, or having my bookbag on hurts because they press on the weakened muscles.

And I got yelled at in school for not running. It took one day when we were playing field hockey (which I *love!*) and I passed out on the floor to convince my teacher I wasn't lying.

The sadder part is it took even longer to convince my mother (I still don't think she believes me) that my asthma was that bad. She and my father just think its because I sit on my ass "all the time" (I love to walk, dance, and play DDR, and in the winter I ski, summer is swimming) and that I'm "fat." I do try to exercise but it *hurts* to do because I can't breathe. Even DDR takes alot of work because by the end of three songs there is a tightness in my chest that is killing me.

Yea, there are people who are fat because they just are. They don't take care of themselves and they eat like crap and they end up fat. But I feel for the genetically and medically fat.

Mysticalmelody

05-07-2006, 05:35 PM

That's really horrible Hito. People should really be more understanding. I'm just glad my asthma doesn't prevent me from doing things I like to do like yours does sometimes.

Anyhow, in PE my teacher used to give me the excuse that she didn't give me points every day I ran (even though I always did the best I could) because she knew another student who had asthma and could run it in time. Another thing that bugged me was, If I couldn't run it one day and came to PE the next, how could she expect me to be able to that day? It was the worst when there was a lot of smoke in the air from brushfires.

Luckily I don't really get attacks that I can't control myself. The only thing that I can think of that brings on my asthma is running. I can run a little ways but after a while my breathing get's so fast and heavy I'm gasping for air.

As much as I wanted to continue and to show my teacher/peers I could do it my body wouldn't let me. I would get a cold feeling in my chest and I'd quickly slow to a walk. When I tried only jogging very slowly I could make it farther, but still not far enough. I don't use my inhalers because they don't help me much, and I can control any attacks I get on my own.

I'm weird that pretty much all of my facial features are tiny. My ears, nose mouth are all very small. My ears are smaller than my 1 year old baby cousin's. Cause of my small nose I always sound stuffed up. I'm betting my asthma is mostly caused because I have a tiny throat too.

Lisa M

05-07-2006, 06:24 PM

Wow. We had awesome PE teacher at my high school. They were very understanding.

... unless you claimed to have your period every day for three weeks. That one didn't fly too well.

Neon Pink Shoehorn

05-07-2006, 06:35 PM

I don't have a problem that are "fat" per se, but I am disgusted by people that are morbidly obese. I mean... eww.
that's all I really have to say.

Mysticalmelody

05-07-2006, 06:39 PM

I don't have a problem that are "fat" per se, but I am disgusted by people that are morbidly obese. I mean... eww.
that's all I really have to say.

Even I say ick to people who can't even squeeze themselves into a single seat. Back when I didn't care so much I had rules for how fat looking I would let myself become. 234 was hitting my limit. I didn't like myself very much at 234 lbs

andrewt

05-08-2006, 04:13 PM

<snip>-- and I'm a rather fit individual who bicycles for around 45-60 minutes per day at relatively quick speeds.

Hey PLF,
you left me w/ a question. =)
Where were you able to bike? (in japan at all)?
in the case that i have a prolonged visit there, i would consider bringing my bike.... but it would seem to me that in tokyo (where i am generally sent and where i generally go to visit friends) that it may not be so easy to fine a nice bike route...

Trump

05-09-2006, 11:57 AM

Lunch and dinner for me are lke 600-800 calories with a smaller breakfast. Need energy to get me through the day! hehe

Pierrot le Fou

05-09-2006, 12:45 PM

Uh, I bike to and from work every day? I bike to and from the bar, station, supermarket, etc. as well. I don't know about Tokyo -- I've been twice in my life. I do know that in Kyoto plenty of people ride their bikes through the city regularly, as it tends to be faster (or at least cheaper and more convenient) than cars and the like.

It's not like I'm a hobby cyclist or anything, I just run late every day and have to bust my arse to get to work at something resembling 'on time.'

bakagaijin

05-10-2006, 06:10 PM

Hey PLF,
you left me w/ a question. =)
Where were you able to bike? (in japan at all)?
in the case that i have a prolonged visit there, i would consider bringing my bike.... but it would seem to me that in tokyo (where i am generally sent and where i generally go to visit friends) that it may not be so easy to fine a nice bike route...

Where do you stay in Tokyo?

sedatedmonkey

05-14-2006, 04:11 AM

I don't blame fatty foods, starch or sugar. I blame high fructose corn syrup as the leading cause of obesity in the young of the US. (take a look at most non-diet sodas, it's HFCS, not sugar as the sweetening agent. ) This stuff "comes in under the radar" for diabetics and is dangerous as hell to your health. Pure cane sugar is better for you than this toxic waste. I would like to thank "efficiency experts" in business for bringing this sludge into our diets.

After a 2-liter of mountain dew per day, I had to switch to diet. A few years later, I can't stand the taste of "regular" anything sodas. (and I went from 205lbs to 175lbs in 4 months with no other diet changes)

Dr Scott McMillan has a neat book on this topic. he proposes a diet heavy in fiber and protein. Works pretty well. (protein to sustain lean body mass, and fiber to fuel activity) Mileage will vary, but it works for me.

Niff

05-14-2006, 04:47 AM

I hope you get fat when you get older pooka.

Not if he has a tiny speck of willpower! *rimshot*

Suck it up. I used to be fat, and I did something about it. Now I'm respected, get women, and have less chance of dying early. :P

(I realise this post is a few days late, I just had to reply)

Mysticalmelody

05-14-2006, 05:42 AM

Not if he has a tiny speck of willpower! *rimshot*

Suck it up. I used to be fat, and I did something about it. Now I'm respected, get women, and have less chance of dying early. :P

(I realise this post is a few days late, I just had to reply)

Quite a few days actually.... and I was angry with him cause he was placing the blame on people who didn't have anything to do with the decision that was made, not to mention the fact that he used an offensive word which I've heard quite enough in my life.

If you'd read the rest of the board you'd know i'm already doing something about my weight and that it's gotten me 30 lbs lighter already. I can't help something being offensive, and I can't help the fact that people being ignorant and judgemental pisses me off. So no sucking it up for me thank you.

Niff

05-14-2006, 05:51 AM

Mysticalmelody

05-14-2006, 06:08 AM

Actually, I read that you were doing something about your weight, good on you. I can respect you for that - but other people who haven't talked to you will instantly think you're lazy, have no self control or willpower, and won't respect you as much as if you were thin.

I've said that dozens of times on this thread. And I've also said that their views are almost as bad as racism in my mind. That's really one of the reasons i'm changing. I'm tired of being treated like crap by society for being myself. I'm just lucky I'm one of the people who CAN change to escape the bad prejudices.

It's sad that people will think those things of me for months and months as I'm working harder even than they do to improve myself.

I think it's funny that you seem to think that people judging me is big news. Far from it really, as I've lived with it all my life. I know.

Niff

05-14-2006, 06:22 AM

Mysticalmelody

05-14-2006, 06:44 AM

I don't want to be an asshole, but it's coming out that way. I can't really find a way to respond to your attitude towards it. Good on you for losing weight, but it was your fault in the first place, and then you bitch at people for judging you because of what you've done to yourself.

I don't think it's big news. I used to be fat, people judged me like that. I didn't blame them, so I simply changed.

1) I don't think you're an ass, just very closed minded. Judging anyone because of how they look is wrong, but obviously it can't be helped. TREATING them differently because of your prejudices can. IE: the most qualified person for a job is overweight. Does that mean they must be lazy? Does that mean they don't have any will power, goals, or motivation? Not necessarily. It could be true but it could also be very very wrong. If you don't hire them simply because there is a less qualified skinny person available, that's just wrong. It happens all the time though. There are PLENTY of skinny people who do absolutely nothing, eat whatever they want and stay thin as ever. And likewise there are many overweight people that are active and eat healthy foods. Just because someone is skinny they get the advantage even when they may not deserve it.

I'm going to have to work very hard to be skinny just because my body really wasn't made for that. But, I want to be able to get a good corporate job someday in communications, and appearance matters in that field, more than it ought to. It doesn't matter that I was happy with who I was, because the rest of the world wasn't.

MNJetter

05-14-2006, 07:05 AM

I was avoiding getting into this thread because the title rang the "oh boy, flame war" alarm bell in my head, but reading it, I guess it's not too bad, and I'm bored at work. Whoopee!

I don't think a single solution or even a single type of solution can work for everybody, because everybody has a different reason for being overweight, and skinny people all have different reasons for that too. Two days a week of aikido started to take the weight off nicely for me. Prae said running was a solution...I didn't really start to lose weight until I realized that it wasn't necessary to run to get decent exercise.

I think these are the secrets that have worked best for me, though I won't claim that they will work for anyone else:

1) Don't eat unless you're hungry. Someone mentioned eating by intuition, and to a degree, this does work. For me, anyway.

2) Don't buy any unnatural sugars for yourself. Natural sugars - fructose, lactose, honey, etc., are fine. Just not processed sugar or sweeteners.

3) Don't prevent yourself from having a good time socially. If people are going to an Italian restaurant, I'll order as much food as anybody, and maybe have a piece of chocolate cake at the end. Since I'm not buying my own unnatural sugars, they taste even better on the rare social occassion when I get to eat them, and my brain starts to associate them just with special occassions instead of thinking of them as an option for normal food.

4) Insert whatever exercise you can without having it interfere too much in your daily life. If you totally change your schedule, you won't be able to keep it up. Five hours a week of exercise for me would also mean five hours of getting ready beforehand, and showering/dressing afterwards. That's ten hours out of a hectic schedule to do something that is really just a substitute for the fact that people don't walk to work anymore and spend their days in an office instead of out in the fields. A hundred years ago, a lot of people were skinnier, but they didn't do jogging or go to gyms. They just didn't sit on their bums all day, but walked around and so forth.

5) Keep in mind that if you fail, it's never too late to pick back up and start again. And never give up for good.

MM, your diet sounds kind of like what I did when I was in my last year of university to lose weight. It took about 30 pounds off for me too, and I've only gained about 5 of them back since coming to Japan....and that was just because of culture shock. I quit gaining now that I'm settled in, and am having no problems maintaining.

Mysticalmelody

05-14-2006, 08:39 AM

I agree with you MNJetter on everything you've said. :) What you were saying is something I was trying to get across to people earlier in the thread trying to convince me to set aside 5 hours or so a week beyond what i'm already doing to exercise despite that what i've been doing has been working very well so far.

I think the not eating unless you're hungry thing is okay so long as you eat real food and have a balanced diet, not twinkies and cheetos (even though you may lose weight that way)
With how busy I am, it's best for me to eat a healthy low-calorie meal when I can, that will keep me from being hungry during the long hours I have at school or work when I don't have a break. I could do the not eating unless I was hungry thing, but it'd leave me hungry in the middle of a shift where I don't have a half hour break or something and I'd need a full meal to fill me up. :P

Praetorian

05-14-2006, 08:40 AM

Mysticalmelody

05-14-2006, 06:03 PM

But what if it isn't working very well for you? Do you realise what could happen after you've reached your desired weight?

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Praetorian

05-14-2006, 06:05 PM

But this is no hypothetical question, from what I've seen from your diet schedule you most probably WILL face trouble after you have reached your desired weight.

But so far, you've been very rude to just about everything I've posted, so I don't really even care anymore.

Renommus

05-14-2006, 06:20 PM

There are PLENTY of skinny people who do absolutely nothing, eat whatever they want and stay thin as ever.

Guilty. :P

Yeah. Good job on doing something about it and such. I know someone who is bullied about his weight, and then goes on to buy like, a ton of food at lunch. Also he says he is proud of his weight. We all know he's lying. Oh well, he's a prick most of the time anyway. :(

Niff

05-14-2006, 07:51 PM

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-05-11T160209Z_01_L11614797_RTRIDST_0_OUKOE-UK-GERMANY-HOTEL.XML

MNJetter

05-15-2006, 12:15 AM

I think the not eating unless you're hungry thing is okay so long as you eat real food and have a balanced diet, not twinkies and cheetos (even though you may lose weight that way)

Yup, I agree. But personally, I've found that if I use the not eating unless you're hungry thing, eventually my body and mind really stop craving the unhealthy stuff after a week or so. I'll go through short phases of wanting sugary stuff, but for the most part, if I eat them more than just occassionally, my insides start to hurt and I start wildly craving vegetables and fruits....especially my favorite, spinach salad with fresh strawberries and walnuts topped with a fresh strawberry vinigarette.....mmmmm.....

But this is no hypothetical question, from what I've seen from your diet schedule you most probably WILL face trouble after you have reached your desired weight.

I can definately see where you're coming from on that, Prae. But I dunno, my diet ended up being more of a lifestyle change than what I would call a diet, and I never stopped when I got to my goal weight - just adjusted my portions and exercise to maintain instead of lose. The problems people have is when they go back to old eating habits after their diets are finished. I can't speak for her, obviously, but it sounds to me like MysticalMelody's diet is also more in the lifestyle-change region than any sort of fad diet.

Mysticalmelody

05-15-2006, 03:41 AM

I can definately see where you're coming from on that, Prae. But I dunno, my diet ended up being more of a lifestyle change than what I would call a diet, and I never stopped when I got to my goal weight - just adjusted my portions and exercise to maintain instead of lose. The problems people have is when they go back to old eating habits after their diets are finished. I can't speak for her, obviously, but it sounds to me like MysticalMelody's diet is also more in the lifestyle-change region than any sort of fad diet.

Exactly, and bravo! Someone finally gets it. I'll say it again cause I also said this earlier in the thread. I'm not going to eat as strictly as I am now forever. When I reach where I want to be I'm just going to adjust my diet and exercise to something that allows me to maintain my weight rather than lose it. I've changed my lifestyle to the point I don't even WANT crappy burgers from fast food places anymore. I've learned to enjoy healthier foods and I don't even think of the things I'm eating now as diet foods. They taste good and they're healthy and I feel better for eating them.

I really don't know what's up your ass Praetorian. All I've done on this thread is to defend myself, and people like me, nothing more. If defending myself is rude, so be it. However, you just don't seem to want to accept anything I have to say. You seem to be desperately trying to find fault in MY diet and exercise plan when there are plenty of people in this thread admitting to much worse diets.

I believe in the past I've even admitted to you a couple times that hey, maybe my diet could be better and I could certainly take hours more out of my life to exercise but y'know I'm the first one here to admit I'm not perfect. You've pretty much been saying all this time that my diet is horrible and will never work. That's pretty harsh, and you still haven't shown any proof to back that story up.

Trump

05-15-2006, 12:21 PM

andrewt

05-15-2006, 03:12 PM

Where do you stay in Tokyo?
generally when i visit for fun, and sometimes for work, i'm in NW tokyo - a few stops NW of Ikebukuro.

and yah, the problem for me would seem to be biking for training....
ie. my saturday bike rides here are 50 miles thru some nice hills - only having to stop at 2-3 traffic lights.
From what i've seen in tokyo - i have only seen 1 actual cyclist on a road bike.
Mostly it appears to be people using a bike to get from A to B - not actual cyclists that are training...

Mysticalmelody

05-15-2006, 10:26 PM

You talk about people judging overweight people differently. Well, overweight people obviously have different priorities than I do. My health and well-being is important to me, and those who are overweight (and don't do anything about it) just depress me =(

Is it being prejudiced to not want to be around that type of person?

If you never take the chance to meet anyone who is fat because you simply like to believe all of them are true to the same stereotype (pigging out, lazy, not exercising, not caring about their health) I think that's just wrong. If you get to know someone and then find out that they're lazy, don't care about their health, etc. before deciding to avoid them, then you're all good. It's really your decision there but facts are far better judges than suspicions.

Would someone who was overweight and who ate no more and no worse than you did actually depress you if their top priorities rather than going to the GYM were school, studying, work, and volunteering for charities? If in their mind their appearance never came before their grades and helping out their community would you hold that against them?

Just because someone is overweight doesn't mean they don't care about their health. It might mean rather that they care about other things like what I mentioned more than doing all it takes to lose weight. (and it can take much much more effort than you would need to put in if you accidentally gained and wanted to lose some pounds) You can say you'd do whatever it takes to be skinny, but it's just words until you're put into a position with a very slow metabolism.

When I was in high school i never ate any more or any worse than my skinny friends did, yet I kept my weight the same as always. My health mattered, but I was always healthy, hardly ever sick and my cholesterol/sugar levels and blood pressure were all great. My weight never once prevented me from doing anything I wanted to do (20 mile almost entirely uphill backpacking trip, broomball, camping, snorkling, kayaking, swimming, and sailing included) After living with my appearance all my life, I was used to it and appearance didn't matter to me more than the time I spent volunteering or keeping my grades as straight A's.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that if there was anyone that did think my time was better devoted at the GYM trying to slim down, than to my grades and volunteering with children, they're probably not the type of person I want to hang out with anyway. For me, It's the people that put appearance above all else that are depressing, and those that put their time toward their education and helping others that motivate me.

Yes, you will find lazy, unhealthy, and unmotivated overweight people. Yes, you'll find healthy, active, motivated skinny people.

However,
skinny does not always = healthy
overweight does not always = unhealthy

keep that in mind. Go ahead and judge people by their appearance all you want but know that you can easily be very very wrong. And when it comes to a job interview or something like that, don't make them pay because of your assumptions.

gentlemanandscholar

05-15-2006, 11:18 PM

overweight does not always = unhealthy

right... so why do you want to lose weight then?

SlickWilly440

05-16-2006, 12:17 AM

You guys are allowed Microwaves in high schools?

The highschool I graduated from had two microwaves. One year someone microwaves a notebook, and it stunk up the whole cafeteria and broke the microwave.

SlickWilly440

05-16-2006, 12:20 AM

right... so why do you want to lose weight then?

Because society and the media is all about appearance these days and the audience take in that trash, which influences what they do. Some people want to lose wait to be accepted, which is not really the problem in most cases.

Cherub Rock

05-16-2006, 12:46 AM

So is no one going to call her on the "overweight does not = unhealthy" thing?

paul

05-16-2006, 12:51 AM

I just lost 5 pounds... in one night. It seems to me that its pretty easy, just find a heavy duty, back breaking work job :P
Still, i've seen people take soda 2 cans at a time... no doubt it can be harmful.

SlickWilly440

05-16-2006, 01:00 AM

I have heard that playing DDR while dieting helps children lose weight, like on the news this kid lost 70 pounds playing DDR along with proper dieting.

Well the highschool I graduated from only allow students to buy sodas afterschool, like when the students wait for the bus or just hang out. The school stop defrying food, so they searched baked French fries. They also stopped serving salt and pepper, so I brought a salt shaker to school and shared it with my table. The principle didn't care, in fact he got a few shakes himself.

paul

05-16-2006, 01:03 AM

I was going to mention that, I do DDR. But you know, they already laughed at me enough on IRC for that :P

The problem is, DDR isn't really efficient as, say, jogging, unless you play on heavy. I played on heavy for 30 min everyday for 2 weeks, I think I lost 10 pounds.

Too bad I'm plateau-ing :( at least I don't think i'm fat anymore.

MNJetter

05-16-2006, 01:15 AM

So is no one going to call her on the "overweight does not = unhealthy" thing?

It doesn't have to. Overweight isn't always unhealthy. Obese is. That's why they make a distinction.

And the exact weight at which a person's health will be impacted changes a lot from person to person. Unless you do a full body analysis by a professional, you have no way of knowing whether overweightness is unhealthy or just an unfortunate appearance thing.

So yes, it's prejudiced to make assumptions about people based on their appearance. I don't assume that all skinny people are active and healthy, so neither should anyone here assume that all overweight people are lazy and eat too much.

Mysticalmelody

05-16-2006, 01:18 AM

right... so why do you want to lose weight then?

I'll say it again. Basically so I can get a good job and stop being treated differently than others because of how I look. Changing the world will never work. I might be able to change some people's views but that won't be enough to help me much. All I can for sure do is change myself.

Also I'm at a point in my life where I am actually able to eat healthy continuously and exercise enough to where it makes a difference. I have more free time, because I have less time spent in classes as a college student. I work a lot, but I no longer am able to volunteer where I used to because I have school and work on weekdays. It's very difficult, but I have to face the facts and change myself if I'm ever going to get where I want to in life.

I never wanted to be fat my entire young life. I just was. Appearance is something to me, it just isn't top top of the list of priorities. Besides, I never looked too bad for a fat chick, as far as I was concerned. ^.~

SlickWilly440

05-16-2006, 01:18 AM

PiccoloNamek

05-16-2006, 01:22 AM

Mysticalmelody

05-16-2006, 01:25 AM

It doesn't have to. Overweight isn't always unhealthy. Obese is. That's why they make a distinction.

And the exact weight at which a person's health will be impacted changes a lot from person to person. Unless you do a full body analysis by a professional, you have no way of knowing whether overweightness is unhealthy or just an unfortunate appearance thing.

So yes, it's prejudiced to make assumptions about people based on their appearance. I don't assume that all skinny people are active and healthy, so neither should anyone here assume that all overweight people are lazy and eat too much.

yepyepyep well said

I <3 MNJetter ^.^
SW440 too.

paul

05-16-2006, 02:01 AM

You play DDR?.....LOL! (I am joking, wish I had DDR).
Did you lean on something to help keep up your stamina.

... no I never have actually. At first I could only go for 10 min at a time with 2 min breaks in between, but within a week or 2 I could go the full 30 min without stopping. I was never fat to begin with actually, I just thought I was. All heavy btw.

Lisa M

05-16-2006, 02:17 AM

Being overweight is not necessarily unhealthy. If you look at BMI body-chart-things, my entire family borders on obese.

If you do a body fat test, though, we actually have low amounts of body fat.

We have really heavy bones and tend to have high amounts of muscle.

Masa the Masta

05-16-2006, 02:17 AM

Overweight implies exceeding a weight that is healthy.

I think a BETTER term we could all use is just bigger. Some people have a natural healthy ideal weight that is bigger than others. That's all it is. It doesn't necessarily mean being obese. There is no one ideal weight in my opinion. 175 lbs for the 5'10 guy might be fine, but for the 5'2 guy, it might be some issues.

mawande

05-16-2006, 06:59 AM

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being big. It's only when it's unhealthy-big.

SDSUMarcus01

05-16-2006, 07:08 AM

I have heard that playing DDR while dieting helps children lose weight, like on the news this kid lost 70 pounds playing DDR along with proper dieting.

Fat loss is easy... you just need to burn more calories than you consume... and the best way to do that is increase your daily calorie burn (exercise) and also decrease your daily caloric intake (diet).

silverwolf0

05-16-2006, 10:35 AM

Woot a fat people thread. Another place where fat people console each other and try to lie to themselves. For those of you who think you are fat and whine about it, give it a rest. For those oversensitive fatties like mysticmelody, you say you dont' care but every post has been "I'll kill you if you even mentioan the word fat in front of me", completely contradicting your "I can't change the world , I have to change myself since it is impossible for the world to change." How about changing your whole attitude about the word fat? If you don't care, why are you so hyped up about it? And all those people who keep on saying "oh I'm just big-boned as it runs in my family, not fat" and "it's natural to be overweight sometimes", quit downplaying the unmistakable. You know you are fat and you are in denial. You wouldn't mention it on a thread about fat people otherwise. For all those paranoid freaks who aren't really fat, if your body doesn't seem to be weighing you down, you aren't getting short of breath, and etc. etc. etc. on the other classic symptoms, quit fooling yourself. Don't we have enough Oprah and TV shows that delve into the lives of both extremely overweight people and anorexic maniacs for you to NOT know?

So many whiners on this board. Actually I think melody is making me think everyone is whining because she has posted so many repetitive and self-contradicting posts that try to defend fat people even when no one here is even remotely attacking her fatness. Then she drones on about how fat people suffer and suffer and suffer. You brought it all upon yourself and perpetuating what you don't want to hear from other people upon yourself and then blaming it on others. Being fat is your life choice and you live with it. Making other people miserable, like me, by complaining and complaining only makes you more of an a$$.

Seriously, why is this not the first time I've experienced this? It is so commonplace and the answer so readily available with the fingers pointed directly to the culprit. Yet people still perpetuate the stereotypes. Its like dropping out of school, doing drugs, killing some cops, and then ending up on deathrow. Really, the media spels it out to you what will happen at the end. News, movies, books, fiction, rap music, common sense, what more can you ask? If it starts this way, continues this way, it will most likely end up like the millions of other times it has ended up being. Blame yourself and only yourself. I made a salutatorian speech at my school over the same kind of issue. Most of the graduating class were below middle-class and probably had unstable households, but OMG you know what? They still roam the streets and dont' do jack at school. Then they become the parents of kids who do the same thing. The vicious cycle continues. They know the consequences already. It's their choice to be lazy bums at school and fail out of every course. There are NO extenuating circumstances when I see you having paper ball fights in class and chillin' after school for hours talking to your so called friends. Then they blame it on genetics and that they weren't born with any smarts. Maybe if you actually attempted the work your brain might start working! Go ahead and blame everyone else BUT yourself. Unless you are strapped down to a table by monkeys and force-fed the entire menu at McDonald's every day, it is ALL your fault.

Melody, this is what you do. Slim down, and shut up. Do you have an obesity disorder? I don't think so. Slimming down too much of a pain? I see people losing weight all the time and don't even say a damn thing about it. People calling you fatty? Maybe if they beat you up and left you for dead, then I would consider it a hate crime. Black people are black, white people are white. Fat people are fat and therefore fatties. These aren't derogatory terms. America is an obese country and being called fat doesn't point you out, it makes you blend in even more. Somehow I think people only called you fat just to see your head explode because you were the only one around who's head WOULD explode if even a little bit a sulfur was thrown your way.

ruaidhri

05-16-2006, 11:27 AM

I’m attending a meeting this morning to become a meeting leader at Weight Watchers. My wife and I joined Weight Watchers in late January, 2005. I reached my goal weight last December.

Weight snuck up on me. Most of my life I was thin. In fact, I was really thin. I’m 5’ 8” tall and have small bones. Even when I was 25 I only weighed 118 pounds. I didn’t diet. Actually, I ate far more than I do now. When I was a teenager back in the 1950’s, we had a restaurant chain that sold seven hamburgers in a bag for $1.00. I considered that a snack. I just didn’t put on weight.

As you grow older, metabolisms change. I started really packing on the pounds in my mid forties. It didn’t happen overnight, but, over a course of years, I certainly passed overweight and became obese. Oh, my weight went up and down as I would diet and then slip back into the comfort of eating more than I needed.

Eating does comfort and ease stress. It worked for me. When I’d get home from work, I’d unwind with a glass of fine Bourbon along with some Brie Cheese and crackers. When dinner was ready, I have more than a single helping. Ultimately, overeating took my weight up to 246 pounds. I felt like shit. I was taking pills for blood pressure, acid reflex, and high cholesterol.

My wife and I decided we weren’t happy being fat and we decided to do something about it. Weight Watchers was our choice. There are others. It still depends on the individual to be successful. Today, I weigh 155 pounds, which is a good healthy weight for me. I have a 32 instead of a 46 inch waist. I no longer am on any medication, which is damn good for a 65 year old person.

My wife has also lost over 50 pounds and has a few more to go to reach her goal. She will because again she’s relying on herself to get there. That’s the secret. No one but yourself can change what and how much you eat.

SDSUMarcus01

05-16-2006, 11:49 AM

America is very accepting of obesity nowadays... all you have to do is flip through the TV channels. Several years ago you'd almost never see a fat person... now you see them all the time. Even on "image conscious" channels like MTV and what not.

My friend and I were playing a game by flipping through channels to see how long we could go before we saw NO fat people. We were waiting a very long time.

For the record... I am skinnier than most people by FAR but not without work (I used to be fat when I lived the "normal American lifestyle"). I'm 5'6" and 145 lbs... most of which is muscle so I'm probably at 13-15% bodyfat. A year ago (when I was running 27 miles a week, lifting 6 days a week, and dieting) I was 127 lbs and probably 10-12% bodyfat... my waist was like 27 inches (it's probably closer to 28-29 now). It can be done... and as soon as I'm done with school I'm gonna jump back on a crazy cutting program again, although a bit different since I don't want to lose as much muscle as I did last time.

Kass

05-16-2006, 11:50 AM

ruaidhri

05-16-2006, 12:12 PM

Kass,

I agree; it does no good to call someone fat. It's mean and unnecessary.

Thanks for the compliment. I agree with you about points. I never bothered with them. Weight Watchers now has what they call the core program where you can eat certain foods without counting. Anyway, with me, I just fill myself with fruit and vegetables and never eat more than four ounces of meat at a meal. I also don’t skip meals and get so hungry I overeat. And, I no longer drink Bourbon and snack on Brie Cheese. I don’t really care for chocolate or sweets so that’s not a temptation. Overall, dieting was a small price to pay for a healthy and happy body.

I’ve found that the real key to losing weight is to change your way of eating, not dieting. Weight doesn’t come on overnight and it doesn’t drop off overnight. It takes time. Some people (like me) lose fast. Others lose slow. But, if you change how and what you eat you will lose weight and will feel much better in the process.

Kass, you have the right idea. Exercise is critical. Again, it’s not easy. But, the results speak for themselves. If others aren’t up to heavy exercise on machines they should at least go for long walks. Enjoy life. In the process they’ll do their bodies good.

Trump

05-16-2006, 12:15 PM

If you never take the chance to meet anyone who is fat because you simply like to believe all of them are true to the same stereotype (pigging out, lazy, not exercising, not caring about their health) I think that's just wrong. If you get to know someone and then find out that they're lazy, don't care about their health, etc. before deciding to avoid them, then you're all good. It's really your decision there but facts are far better judges than suspicions.

...

Why are you putting words in my mouth? You took what I actually said and made it mean something COMPLETELY different! I said that people who didn't care about their health depress me. I didn't say that I judged people solely on their weight, and I didn't say that I don't give people a chance to prove themselves. You wanted to hear that so you ignored everything else. That makes it really hard to have an intelligent conversation with you. Regardless I will try.

When you look at someone you can tell a lot about them. You can tell by the spring in their step if they look forward to life. You can tell by how they hold themself if they are confident, happy, and aware of their surroundings. How many (really) overweight people have that spring in their step and stand there with their back straight, shoulders back, chest out, and head held high? I bet the ones who don't care about their health are not in this group. If you don't care about your health then you don't care about how you feel. If you don't care about how you feel, how can you care about anything else? If you don't care about how you look, that's fine and really has nothing to do with it. It is all about how you feel, if you care about that then you care about life in general and you have an outlook that lends itself well to making other people happy. Is it too much to ask to want to be around that kind of person?

Besides all of that, people don't realize how good exercise can feel. After exercising when your blood is pumping and you are breathing deeply, you can experience one of the best natural highs a human can feel. You feel full of life and energy, and all of the bad things in life take a step back for a little while. It depresses me that so many people have never experienced that. It depresses me even more that so many people don't want to. Many will tell you it is too much work, but things like that are worth the effort! It doesn't even take drugs or alcohol, and who can beat that?

I think ruaidhri has a good point, it is all about enjoying life and how you feel is a huge part of how you enjoy life.

Kass

05-16-2006, 12:40 PM

Kass,
I don’t really care for chocolate or sweets so that’s not a temptation.

I want to know how people pull this off. *sigh* The almond M&Ms, they call to me. Fortunately for my waistline, I'm also on a financial diet and candy isn't in the budget.

Praetorian

05-16-2006, 12:57 PM

Besides all of that, people don't realize how good exercise can feel. After exercising when your blood is pumping and you are breathing deeply, you can experience one of the best natural highs a human can feel. You feel full of life and energy, and all of the bad things in life take a step back for a little while. It depresses me that so many people have never experienced that. It depresses me even more that so many people don't want to. Many will tell you it is too much work, but things like that are worth the effort! It doesn't even take drugs or alcohol, and who can beat that?

I concur. The feeling you have after a really intensive workout (especially in a group of other people) is probably the best feeling in the world. To me, anyway. Every time I come home from Karate or Taekwon-do, I am surprised how fast that hour flew by. I wish I could do it for hours. Every time I come home from intensive excersising, I feel I've accomplished something great. I am always happy - but especially after a good work out. You described it perfectly, Trump.

3 years ago, I was a couch potatoe. I only cared about my computer. While I did like the adreanaline after being the only one left in my team and single handedly killing the entire opposite team with a knife in first person shooters on the internet, that feeling only lasts for a very short time. Although I didn't even want to admit it to myself, I can honestly say I was depressed most of the time, and felt like absolute shit. I had no interest in girls because they only saw me as the fat geek. While I had friends, I had to endure most of my days at school being teased. Funnily enough, not because of my weight - but because of my brains. They were terribly jealous that I didn't even have to do homework or study, and was still able to get the highest grades of the class in most subjects. I hated PE, as I was always the slowest. I had moderate asthma too, which didn't help my situation much. Of course, since I wasn't really sporting intensively and didn't enjoy it, I never got that "natural high" Trump was talking about. So I simply didn't understood the fun about doing sports.

Now, I'm practicing Taekwon-do and Karate at the very least 5 times a week. I'm loving it. I'm in better shape than most of my peers and, coupled with the years I've spent looking up information on the internet, more intelligent too. Often, people ask me what kind of sports I do. When I mention I practice both TKD and Karate 5 times a week, I often get a "Wow." in response. I love that. In the Netherlands, Martial Arts are not just any sports - when people know you practice fightsports, you're overall regarded as a tough bastard you don't want to pick a fight with. Even though I don't feel I am, it's nice to think others do think I might be. I honestly don't know where I'm going with this - I basically want to say that I love life now. I practice fightsports with others when I can, and when I can't, I'm thinking about doing it. I'm addicted, and it's one of the few addictions that are good for you. I think the reason I'm writing this is in the hopes that it convinces other people who are out shape, wether you're too thin or too fat, to start sporting intensively. Any sport, but I can definitely recommend Martial Arts. A certain status comes with it, and it's one of the few sports you can practice all your life without ever getting bored, as you keep learning new things.

Jess

05-16-2006, 01:01 PM

Random thought on the title:

It's not fatties win again. We fatties want our soda! It's Control Freak Nazis win again.

:p

Mysticalmelody

05-16-2006, 02:48 PM

Why are you putting words in my mouth? You took what I actually said and made it mean something COMPLETELY different! I said that people who didn't care about their health depress me. I didn't say that I judged people solely on their weight, and I didn't say that I don't give people a chance to prove themselves. You wanted to hear that so you ignored everything else. That makes it really hard to have an intelligent conversation with you. Regardless I will try.

When you look at someone you can tell a lot about them. You can tell by the spring in their step if they look forward to life. You can tell by how they hold themself if they are confident, happy, and aware of their surroundings. How many (really) overweight people have that spring in their step and stand there with their back straight, shoulders back, chest out, and head held high? I bet the ones who don't care about their health are not in this group. If you don't care about your health then you don't care about how you feel. If you don't care about how you feel, how can you care about anything else? If you don't care about how you look, that's fine and really has nothing to do with it. It is all about how you feel, if you care about that then you care about life in general and you have an outlook that lends itself well to making other people happy. Is it too much to ask to want to be around that kind of person?

Besides all of that, people don't realize how good exercise can feel. After exercising when your blood is pumping and you are breathing deeply, you can experience one of the best natural highs a human can feel. You feel full of life and energy, and all of the bad things in life take a step back for a little while. It depresses me that so many people have never experienced that. It depresses me even more that so many people don't want to. Many will tell you it is too much work, but things like that are worth the effort! It doesn't even take drugs or alcohol, and who can beat that?

I think ruaidhri has a good point, it is all about enjoying life and how you feel is a huge part of how you enjoy life.

I apologize if that sounded like it was accusing you of judging people like that. From your post you sounded like you could easily be one of those people, and I was mostly wondering how anyone could think like that. You implied that you didn't like to hang out with anyone fat because none of them cared about their health. That's just a very prejudiced thing if you don't even attempt to talk to them first before deciding not to be around them.

On another note. I'm not going to try to respond to all of siverwolf's post because I'd just be repeating myself. I love how he selectively read through the thread and skipped over all the posts I made that he didn't feel like hearing though. Anyone I did choose to argue with in this thread at least presented some valid points and avoided flaming like an idiot.

cenanan

05-16-2006, 04:22 PM

Eating healthy Can be difficult when your working 40 hours a week.. 10 hour days.. school.. etc. I just bring a baggie of veggies to work with me. Celery, carrots, etc. nobody seems to mind me munching on them during the day.

course, it also helps that my Grandma offered me $500 bucks if i could get down to 230. thats like.. 80 lbs and i havent been that light sense.. 6th grade..

I'm starting to wonder if i can even get that light. I think when i tried out for the military they figured my flat 5% fat weight would be something like 145 due to muscle mass

mare_imbrium

05-16-2006, 10:17 PM

I can't believe I registered just to post in this thread, but here goes.

Praetorian and gentlemanandscholar and anyone else who is protesting that they are just trying to give helpful advice: I do believe that's what you think you are doing. But the targets of your advice are going to resent you, and here is why: nobody asked you for advice. I realize that "well nobody asked you" is old and trite, but it's true. Because - and I don't understand why there are people who don't realize this: NOBODY follows advice, especially unsolicited advice. Everyone just does what they want to do, the only difference is if what you say goes along with what someone wanted to do anyway they are validated and if they don't and you push it you have an argument.

You have knowledge you want to share because you care about other members of the community and because you were once in a similar position, I get that. If you want to exhibit that then share your own story, what you do know, and say "hey, it's great that you're trying to lose weight. If you have any questions about {your area of knowledge} I'd be glad to help you out." The people on this board who are dieting MAY find that what they are doing now can't go on indefinitely, they may hit a plateau with their weight loss and you might be vindicated. And when they DO reach that point they will then decide if they want to go to the next level. Then they may come to you with their questions. Not before. Otherwise you're not building other people up, you're tearing them down. Take this for example:

Me: I've lost 10 lbs! I'm so proud of myself! I am motivated to keep going!
Trying to be Helpful but Failing: You're not doing good enough. Your diet sucks. You need to stop eating pretzels and exercise 5 hours a week.
Me: *thinking to myself* Shit, it was hard for me to change my diet and I thought eating fat-free pretzels was better than eating potato chips or worse. Five hours of exercise a week sounds intimidating, and nothing less than that is good enough? What if I don't have time? How will I make time?

You see? Now I in the example feel like shit and may want to throw in the towel entirely and go back to eating crap because it seems to daunting to get up to the level of "good enough," especially when people trying to out-hardcore each other keep upping the ante of what "good enough" is. It's a motivation sapper to be told one's efforts aren't good enough, especially starting out. A few years back I was attempting to learn Arabic for fun and after a week or two had gotten pretty strong on the alphabet (pronunciation, order, etc) and had memorized a list of vocabulary words. I was pretty happy that I was making progress teaching myself. I mentioned it to someone I know who speaks Arabic and all they said was "You'll have to learn a lot more words than that." Well no shit, sherlock. Was I supposed to be fluent in a couple of weeks? Sorry. All I know is it made me feel bad because what I was doing wasn't "good enough."

This scenario would be better (though I still personally think bitching about pretzels is a little much):

Me: I've been dieting for six months now and I've lost 30 lbs, which is awesome, I'm so much happier with my body now, but I still don't really feel totally in shape and I think I could stand to lose some more weight. The problem is I don't seem to be losing anymore. What should I do? Here is what I'm doing now: .....
Trying to Help: Well, you might try getting a little stricter with what you eat. I see you're eating pretzels, do you eat a lot of them/every day? Maybe you could cut down. And be sure only to drink a small glass of fruit juice every day, even natural fruit juices have a lot of calories. Also, you'll probably have to bump up your activity level some. They say that to maintain a healthy lifestyle you should really exercise five hours a week. You'd be surprised how easy it is to fit that into your schedule a little at a time.
Me: Thanks for your advice. I'll try some of those things.

And btw, telling someone running is the only good form of exercise is both not true and, when telling someone who already explained she can't run because she has asthma, it's mean.

And if you really can't stand for all your experience to go to waste waiting for someone to ask you, or would like to make a helpful post for people who might be too shy to ask, make your own post titled "this is what I do, it has really worked, and this is how I do it." I guarantee you'll get better results than picking apart people's diets - that just makes people defensive, not receptive.

Mysticalmelody

05-17-2006, 02:34 AM

Trump

05-17-2006, 05:26 PM

Mare_imbrium,

You just created an extremely large, unsolicited post criticizing the way people put together posts when they offer unsolicited criticism of people's weight and dieting ideas.

My hypocrisy senses are tingling.

Praetorian

05-17-2006, 07:01 PM

Mare_imbrium,

*resent*

*gets defensive about unsollicited advice on how to post while I've been posting well without any complaints except from stupid people and you since the beginning of this board*

*flames*

Welcome to the board,

Michael

mare_imbrium

05-18-2006, 08:19 AM

You're right, trump, most posts on message boards are generally unsolicited. Other than the making of a post sort of implicitly solicits a response. Otherwise threads would consist of one post each. When I read discussions where both sides are arguing and just not connecting with each other I have a bad habit of sticking my nose in to try to clear a path. I suppose I could also protest that I am simply trying to be helpful. But just like people don't like advice they probably don't want help either.

Praetorian I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition of "stupid person" may include "criticizes my posting." *insert some kind of smilely no-malice-intended picture here*

A more topical response to the actual article:

Soft drinks should never be sold to children in elementary school, and in my opinion middle school as well, because children that age are not old enough to make those kinds of choices for themselves and should either eat a school-provided meal parents can trust is sufficiently healthy or bring a suitable lunch from home (which is packed most likely by parents with food bought by the parents). As the article says, most elementary schools in the U.S. already don't allow soft drinks to kids so that part seems already in order.

High schoolers should be able to make their own choices, I think. If parents really want to squeeze them they can make it so that studens need a certain sticker on their ID card in order to purchase food at school (or to purchase a la cart items at school) that is contingent on parental permission which discloses that the school sells things like candy and soda and meals so greasy they might cause a heart attack from looking at them (which was basically the a la cart fare when I was in high school - that, and cup 'o noodles).

I do, however, understand the position of the schools. It would be a pain in their ass to administrate all levels of parental permission in regards to diets. This one can bring soda, this one cannot, this one can buy soda and candy, this other one cannot - so they just level it down and make it so everyone is miserable so that they can't get bitched at for letting kids have things they aren't allowed to have. Teachers, however, I believe should be able to bring soda and candy and whatever they want as long as they don't eat it/drink it in front of students. I don't know if this will help. If teenagers want to get something they probably will - are they going to stop giving them money, pick them up and drive them to school so they can't walk to their local 7-11, etc? I doubt it. This is basically a bit of PR, but honestly, are kids going to die if they can't have a soda between 8:00am-3:00pm?

Saying "fatties" (which is a derogatory term and rude) win is also not quite true. This was certainly brought on because of a rise in obesity in this country, so there is some responsibility there, but I doubt, for example, the "I'm obese and you should accept me" lobby is the same lobby fighting for no soda in schools. It is more probable that this is the "I'm skinny and I don't want to look at fat people anymore" lobby and the "FOR TEH CHILDREN" lobby. The real winners are the loud obnoxious parents who want to control every aspect of their children's lives and the losers are annoyed students and faculty, who can't drink what they want, and the administration of the schools and their Associated Student Body, who make money from the sales of soft drinks.

Personally I'd like to see some actual healthy items (that are really low in sugar and fat and actually good for you) offered in school along with the bad things. Sure they could bring it from home but should it really be easier to get candy than to get something healthy or should they both be equally accessible? Also it annoys me personally that they would sell diet soda only in school because I don't think drinking fake sugar is really a good idea but then again high fructose corn syrup isn't exactly peachy either.

I also realize that my REAL aversion to these kinds of measure is because of nostalgia. This is how it was when *I* was in school so that's the way it should be, that sort of thing. And nobody wants to think about what they were doing and what they believed is wrong. But I have a couple of theories about what we're seeing now: people are becoming more health conscious because it may be a sort of cyclical thing - changing from generation to generation. Or what we may be seeing is that we're beginning to realize that many of the technological benefits of modern living aren't beneficial after all. Think about the post WWII era when we marvelled at the wonder of the TV Dinner and doctors told women that formula was healthier for children than breastmilk. Science was going to make everything faster, easier, better. We're I think becoming a bit disillusioned with that right now. I haven't done any research on the subject (I'm trying to figure out if the 60's was the first example of this, or if we're onto something entirely different), this is just my own personal observations.

Praetorian

05-18-2006, 08:33 AM

Praetorian I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition of "stupid person" may include "criticizes my posting." *insert some kind of smilely no-malice-intended picture here*

Not really. I come to the General Discussion not to debate, flaunt my intelligence and reinforce my own ideas. I generally come here to mold my own opinions about things, and learn. If I felt that people criticising my posts are dumb people, I'd have regarded some of the boards brightest members (Rhuadhri, Pooka, Kass, etc.) as dumb simply for disagreeing with some of my posts.

However, I get annoyed easily by rude behaviour and a 'holier than thou' attitude, like a few people on this board, and particulary one in this thread, have exhibited. And no, I don't mean you. You're a new poster, and likely haven't seen much of the forum before jumping the gun.

mare_imbrium

05-18-2006, 09:16 AM

You've got me there. I mostly read the "japanese school teacher" editorials and I have poked around a bit and read other posts about what Japanese culture is like (more because of an interest in different cultures than a specific interest in Japan). This is admittedly my first foray into this particular General Discussion, though message boards kind of have a sameness to them, the only difference being the differing amount of trolling, mouth-breathing morons whose posts consist of single-sentence statements about how this or the other things sucks or how some other poster is an idiot. I haven't seen any of that here yet.

Trump

05-18-2006, 12:13 PM

ClubCrKz

05-18-2006, 02:44 PM

Why be mad at fat people?

You shouldn't be mad at them when it is just a bunch of stupid parents and teachers who think it is the food and drink that make them fat. How about looking beyond what their diet is, and WHY they decided to eat and drink so badly in the first place.

It isn't because 'Oh look, Mountain Dew!' or 'Mmm...Snickers'.

Everyone needs to stop being so damn critical towards the fat population, and stop being so damn stereotypical thinking that all 'Fatties' only like eating and drinking at their own and other's expense. Just another form of discrimination.

And yea, I'm overweight. Wouldn't you've imagined that?

Neon Pink Shoehorn

05-18-2006, 03:10 PM

you know, I don't really care about fat people. I mean, the info to make better choices is there, you can find it almost anywhere, but it really up to them to make the choices.
Like, I have a brother who complains about his weight and... digestive troubles. But he won't get vegtables, and rarely eats fruit, and I've never seen him do any strenous exercise. I mean, he'll walk two miles to get a stamp, but nothing that'll break a sweat. I once suggested that if he ate a more balenced diet he'd feel better, and he threw his fork at me. He gets fatter, and I keep my mouth shut.
But I don't find ti repulsive if a person "could stand to loose a few pounds," it's not hard to get that way. but it's kinda hard to ignore weight if you're twice the weight that you should be.
When I was at my lightest, I didnt' feel good. I felt too insubstantial, too dizzy. So I decided to gain some muscle/weight. I'm about 15 pounds heavier than my "ideal" weight, but I feel better at this weight than I did back then. I mean, how important is it to be a size two?
yeah... I used the phrase "I mean" too much in this post... lol

ClubCrKz

05-18-2006, 03:48 PM

Well I could post my life story but I won't.

I think the thing is, it isn't mostly that 'fatties' are fat because all they do is eat and complain and never walk. It is mostly because of failed Families, never having real friends, and always being the target for everyone who has had a bad day.

I believe this because this is what wrecked my life.

But I don't want to get into it because I realize how demeaning non-'fatties' are towards 'fatties' and how they come up with come backs saying 'It is all your fault, you should walk more.' Because really, fuck them. I don't see what made them a fucking Doctor on how fat people become fat. I think most of them deserve to get their asses kicked. So I'll refuse to really say how people get fat, for real.

But here is me, on a small summary.

Yea I'm overweight, but I'm not as bad as a lot of people are. I think so just because I was pretty bad in Middle School and Elementary School, but I'm not just fat anymore. I'm about 230 Pounds now, although people say I look 180...175'ish. I've gained a lot of muscle over the years, although I could be stronger. I, for about four months, walked 4 miles home 5 days a week. I gave up my eating habbits, and I don't eat a lot anymore. I've become what I laugh at. A Carb and Calorie counter. I'll have to admit it works. I wouldn't say I don't eat my fruits or veggies. I eat certain Veggies on occasion, and Fruits quite frequent. But I still have my share of grease. Recently, like the past month or so, we've been going out to eat quite a lot. Well maybe not too much. But when I don't work out or when I eat too much in a month, I feel crappy. So I think I'm really fat.

I mean, I guess I've made improvements. I've lost my man cans for the most part, and my gut has flattened out a lot. But it still hangs out a bit. But meh, what else could I ask for?

Also, another thing. I don't eat junk food. All I drink is Diet pop, which I think I'm going to become some weird health problem since I don't drink water very much anymore. And my Donut Count is 1 Donut this ENTIRE year so far. Infact, last year I only had about 5 or 7 Donuts. As compared to people who really are problems with food, eating about 8 per week...or day.

Anyways, I'll have to get pictures of me up in the picture thread.

But yea, my only problem with this entire ordeal is that people for the most part blame the Fat Kids about this. When they should look back on their lives, and look at what they could have not done to perhaps make a fat kid want to do those things. Because, no matter how sweet you are, you make fun of a fat person ever so often. Perhaps that is what makes that person fatter? And perhaps not the lust to want more snickers and donuts in their system.

But yea, thats just my thought.

Trump

05-18-2006, 05:28 PM

I don't even know how to respond to your posts. I'm not even sure I understand what you are trying to say!

Basically you start by claiming most fat people are fat because of what other people do to them? Then you go on and say how you have slimmed down a bit because you got motivated and decided to change things, by taking responsibility for your own actions? Did you just contradict yourself?

I know life sucks, I know we are bombarded by advertising, I know we are surrounded by luxury, and I know saying 'no' to things you want is difficult. But in the end, you decide how to live your life. No one else makes that decision, no one comes up and puts a gun to your head and forces you to eat and avoid exercise. If you are under lots of stress, being made fun of, had a bad day, or whatever then sure, eating is one way to relax. But no one is making you down a tub of ice cream, and futhermore there are so many other ways to relax. Go run around the block, or go swimming, or go read, or one of a billion other things.

I'm not advocating making fun of fat people, but this attitude of blaming everyone else for your choices is EXACTLY the epidemic problem facing our country that I was talking about. When you took responsibility for your actions your weight, health, and life improved didn't it?

PS All soda, diet and otherwise is evil.

Mysticalmelody

05-18-2006, 06:27 PM

I don't know how to respond to that either. I don't blame others for my weight. Society has never run my life. If it did maybe I'd be skinny like the majority? I've always made choices that in were mine alone. Society probably had some influence (when I was younger that was more true) but in the end it was up to me. Frankly, I don't regret a darn thing about what I've eaten in the past few years or how much I've exercised. I've done all that I could do while staying true to myself the entire time.

I honestly feel perfectly happy with myself as I am. I'm healthy and there isn't anything I want to do that my weight prevents me from doing. However, a huge reason I'm dieting right now is pretty much because I've never known what it was like to be very skinny. I'm sure there are advantages I've yet to experience in my life. It'll be nice to be able to fit into different sizes and wear different styles. Basically, while I don't care so much now, maybe I'll like it much better later. On the opposite end though I'm sure there'll be things I'll miss about my heavier self. Looking at old pictures of me when I was 8 and super hyper/moderately skinny, I expect my face's shape is going to change quite a bit. I like it the way it is now best though. Cuter in my opinion ^.^ Also, y'know the whole boob-shrinkage thing won't be great.

(edited for typo)

mare_imbrium

05-18-2006, 06:59 PM

Grr... damn message board ate my post because I wasn't still logged in or some other crap. Anyway, I'll try again.

I disagree with two of your points mare_imbrium.

First, I actually believe exactly opposite of you when you say that parents want to control every aspect of their children's life. Look at society today and you'll see that parents really don't want to spend any time looking after their children and instead seem to want society to do it for them. They want schools to regulate student lunches and sodas because they can't be bothered do it themselves! Maybe it is just from listening to my mother though. She is a 7th grade math teacher and I hear all sorts of stories, but this recurring story relates closely to our topic. Basically a few times each year she'll end up in a meeting with some parent irate about the fact that their child is failing my mother's class. Most of the time they change their tune when my mother proves that the student has not turned in any of the last dozen homework assignments, but it still bothers me that they had to go to the teacher to find this out. Is it that hard to keep track of whether your child is doing their homework or not? Sometimes it is even worse though and the parent will get upset that my mother assigns homework and expects the student to have enough time to complete it! To me this is a glaring example of the complete lack of parental responsibility.

Furthermore about sodas and lunches in school. Lunch is only one of three meals you are supposed to eat every day. If students were eating two healthy meals at home, even an unhealthy lunch would not matter too much. Sadly, I would put money on the fact that even the people who complain about the school lunches get better food at school than at home. Taking it a step further, one soda a day at school won't hurt anyone. Then it would be a nice treat and a way to stay awake in class. But people today drink soda like water! Soda is not a drink to quench thirst, it is a sugary mess that I would put along the lines of coffee in terms of how it should be consumed. Having one soda at school is nothing compared to the number of sodas people drink after and before school I'm sure, so why do we have to blame schools for the problem? If parents took the time to make sure their children ate healthily at home, schools could do whatever they wanted.

I believe that almost half of our country's problems can be solved through parental and personal responsibility. It has become an epidemic how your problem isn't your fault, but it is because of society. Sadly, no one seems to be doing a thing about it. Blame science and technology, an easy life, or society in general, but how you live your life is totally up to you.

I'm not trying to blame science so much as point out that eating in the "new way" has shown to be bad for us. Things like extremely processed foods, like TV dinners, preseratives, high fructose corn syrup, fake sugars, trans fats, etc...are not healthy. When all of these things were first developed most people just ate them without really thinking about what they were eating, but now studies have shown they are bad for you.

You're right, one soda a day probably isn't going to hurt you if you are active and you otherwise eat healthy. But like you say, many people today drink soda like water. And the opportunity in school to drink soda isn't just for lunch. When I was in school, anyway, the Associated Student Body ran a little shop where they sold candy, chips and soda (also Snapple, I think, another really sugary drink). It was open at least twice a day. I honestly don't remember if I ever bought a soda before school started so I don't recall if you could but I know the cafeteria windows were open before school and they sold soda at other times so it seems likely. And there were soda machines. It would be easy to have 3-4 sodas a day. If you were a parent, say, who wanted your kids to stop drinking so much soda, you could ban it at home, but wouldn't it be frustrating to you that you, by law, had to send them to a place where they didn't have time to administrate your preferences (rightly so, really) and where your kid could practically drown himself in soda all day if he wanted, and you had no way to check and see if he actually did? That's a lot of temptation for a kid, too, especially if all his friends have no such restrictions and are all drinking tons of soda around him.

I don't know if it's that parents want society to help raise THEIR children, but other people's kids. I'll bet that all parents think they can handle their OWN kids, but are concerned with the kids that their kids have to be around all day. An excuse I've heard in interviews as to why parents are buying their kids games rated Mature is "They'll just play them at their friends' houses." I can see the frustration that parents would have with sending their kids to school trying to have them make healthy choices and then being around a bunch of kids who eat junk. Nobody believes their kid is going to shoot up a school, but want schools protected from kids who might do so. I'll bet "parents don't take responsibility for their kids" is something that parents say but not in regards to themselves, of course. Other people, but not them.

This attempt to be health conscious is a bit daunting. Has there been any other time in history when our own "normal" diets are full of things we shouldn't be eating? I am absolutely for personal responsibility and family responsibility. The desire and drive to eat healthy has to come from individuals and families. But honestly as a culture (I'm talking mainly about U.S. culture here but much of this applies for most Western industrialized nations) our habits are not compatible with being healthy - we are sedintary and extremely busy people. In the U.S. we work more hours than any other country (there's a post about it in the next forum down) and we don't really have time to plan, shop for and cook meals at home. We eat out or buy ready-to-cook meals or other convenience foods a LOT. And most of them are frankly bad for us. Especially fast food and restaurant food, many of which may be healthy (or at least not bad) in itself, but portion sizes in those establishments are far too large, but people eat them as they are presented, as a whole single meal, then their bodies get used to having that amount of food.

As for your mother's story with the homework, I have heard similar from my mother who is starting a career as a high school teacher herself. I think now parents are encouraged to trust and believe their children and to take them seriously. Maybe this stems from too many cautionary tales about sexaul abuse that went undetected because the parents didn't take seriously their children's strange behavior, I don't know. Maybe it stems from a rising trend in the distrust of authority figures. But generally what happens in my mother's irate-parent scenarios is that when the child is confronted with the failing/falling grade or other proof of trouble at school the child then lies about what's going on "I swear I've done everything I was supposed to do! The teacher doesn't like me!" "The teacher won't help me!" etc. The parent believes them as they are wont to do or maybe feel they have to, and go off to confront the teacher. They later get deflated and admit they are wrong when the child fesses up when confronted with proof. Whereas when we were kids if something bad happened to us at school my mother's first question was "well what did YOU do?" She always assumed that we did whatever it was that they said we did. :) I was a horrible student in high school and my mother was always telling teachers she didn't blame them, it was all me. :) I don't blame my mother either, it WAS all me. My mom spent years and years when I was a younger child trying to get me to do homework. I was better in college, but it really took me 25 years to learn how to be a good student. :)

I don't know. This post is long enough. But I am a parent, my kids are almost three and three months. And being a parent is often really hard. It makes me hesitate to say that parents don't care about their kids or don't want to raise their own kids. I do understand parents who want to change things in the country to be more in line with how they raise their kids (I don't know if it's a good idea to legislate it though, I would say it should come from culture change, but then again people have said that about civil rights legislation too), because sometimes I feel like the culture and country is actually working AGAINST me in the goal of raising my kids to be healthy and responsible eaters.

King Kong

05-18-2006, 07:25 PM

Fatties have won nothing. They are fat and immobile.

Idlethought

05-18-2006, 07:26 PM

Holy shit, that essay just killed my desire to read.

Beowulf

05-18-2006, 07:43 PM

And I thought my posts were supposed to be the long rambling ones...

I have no one to blame but myself for my weight. Due to the poor decisions I made as a young man (referring to my injuries of course) I now find exercise difficult and unappealing. Since I broke my knees, the breaks have healed years ago, but the cartilage hasn't. And according to doctors probably won't ever heal entirely. I'm actually supposed to be walking with a cane right now but I haven't gotten one yet because I'm vain and poor (mostly the poor). As such fat-burning exercises hurt. Lots. So I lift weights, and while weight lifting is good for building muscle mass, it sucks for burning fat. And to answer your potential questions yes I do own a knee brace. Yes it does help but not for long stretchs of exercising, just short bursts. I was also born with slightly defective lungs (they produce a condition similar to asthma). Thus furthering my difficulties.

Edit:
Forgot to mention, I'm 6'1" and 250 lbs.

All-American Alfonse

05-18-2006, 08:36 PM

If it did maybe I'd be skinny like the majority?

(edited for typo)I thought you live in America......was that the typo?

mare_imbrium

05-18-2006, 09:45 PM

yes, well, there are so many subjects to think about out there that many of my thoughts on the subject may be something I just thought of when making a post. So that tends to make it rambling. If you don't want to read it, don't. I'm not forcing you to.

Trump

05-18-2006, 10:00 PM

Well, I don't know about your school, but we were never allowed food or drink in the classrooms. So that limited soda opportunities to only lunch, before school, and after school.

Overall I guess I'm under the impression that if something is important to you, you'll find time for it. I work 9 hour days (not counting 45 minutes for lunch) with over 1 hour commute (round trip) so I think that I work as many hours as most people. I still find time to eat well and exercise and then crash on the couch for at least an hour watching TV, playing games, or maybe I'd go out with friends. Cooking doesn't take that long after a little practice. So if you want to fix healthier things, you can.

Parents should still monitor their children, but that doesn't mean they have to make all of the decisions for them. For example, I might not force my child to do their homework but I would know if they did it or not. After a few times where the homework was not done, then you start to take action. Monitor your childrens friends, meet their parents, make sure they are people you want your child hanging out with. But I bet many parents still find time to watch some TV. It is the time and dedication of being a good parent, things like that are what is missing from many homes today.

Mysticalmelody

05-19-2006, 02:39 AM

I thought you live in America......was that the typo?

I don't know the estimates for overweight percentage in america but I'd say in classes in high school and now college I would judge over 75% of each class to be skinny. Only one or two in each class were around my weight or over it.

The typo was i missed a word in the last sentance somewhere I think... and I edited it so it was fixed. :P

Neon Pink Shoehorn

05-19-2006, 10:11 PM

Part of what I was trying to say in my last post, is that one shouldn't rely on a scale to feel good. What good is it to have reached the goal of "healthy" weight, but feel tired, dull, and perhaps dizzy? I know some who's maybe two inches taller than me, and easily twice my weight, but he feels better there than he does at a "healthy" weight. I'd rather be fat and vibrant than skinny and dull.
(this coming from a "skinny" person)

Killer Queen

05-20-2006, 04:41 AM

Trump

05-20-2006, 04:54 PM

From what I see around town, it isn't so much that everyone is overweight. I think that the really overweight people just stand out more, and of the people outside of healthy weight more tend to become terribly overweight then previously.

Here's my WAG (wild ass guess).

15% too thin, 60% close to healthy weight, 25% overweight

ruaidhri

05-21-2006, 03:21 AM

Fat America really depends on where you live. I live in Milwaukee, which used to be considered one of the “fattest” cities in America. Well, guess what? According to Men’s Fitness Magazine we’re now the 15th most fit city in America www.mensfitness.com/rankings/304

Still, I can walk down just about any street and see that the majority of people approaching me are overweight. A good percentage of those are considerably overweight, particularly those over 40 years old. And, it is not at all unusual to see people in all age groups that fit into the morbidly obese category.

What makes a person fat? The simple answer is that they eat too much and exercise too little. But, consider that Americans are always bombarded with ads for food and drink. Food and beverage companies want increased sales so they make their products more appealing. They advertise more. They encourage Americans to eat and drink more and, as a nation, we do. Of course we are responsible for our own bodies. The problem is that we should also be responsible for our children’s’ bodies. Personally, I support getting junk food and corn sweetened beverages out of our schools. I don’t believe promoting unhealthy habits should be the function of our schools.

What does it mean when people are overweight? It suggests that those overweight will have more health problems, miss more work, and further increase health costs in America. We are all paying the price for that. So, while each person should have the right to eat whatever they want and however much they want their personal decisions impact you and me right in our pocketbooks. After all, someone has to pay for their health problems.

akitaka

05-21-2006, 06:25 AM

In relation to Rhuaidri's post:

The advertisements aim to use food as a form of entertainment, rather than sustenance.

I think we've all been wowed by a McDonald's commercial as small children, and such commercials as this kick-start the habit of eating "just because it tastes good". Parents, who lovingly give their children the most, cave into it just as readily; a vicious cycle that will lead to an overweight/unhealthy person even if they have activities to do.

Angelyne

05-22-2006, 05:35 AM

http://myfatspouse.com/

Pretty messed up, IMO.

All-American Alfonse

05-22-2006, 11:06 AM

I don't know the estimates for overweight percentage in america but I'd say in classes in high school and now college I would judge over 75% of each class to be skinny. Only one or two in each class were around my weight or over it.

The typo was i missed a word in the last sentance somewhere I think... and I edited it so it was fixed. :P
I believe somebody else had already quoted a figure of 60% as being clinically obese (whatever that is measured by) and I had read the figure somewhere a while back (can't recall where though) to be 55%. IF these figures are true, then being fat/overwieght/obese/a pie scoffer or whatever you want to call it/be called, you are in the majority my friend.

Trump

05-22-2006, 11:44 AM

I work at an engineering company. If there are going to be fat people anywhere, they are going to be here. There are not THAT many fat people.

ruaidhri

05-22-2006, 05:42 PM

What is a good weight? What is overweight and what is obese? According to the BMI index the answer is simple.

Below is the formula to determine your BMI or Body Mass Index

English BMI Formula BMI = ( Weight in Pounds / ( Height in inches ) x ( Height in inches ) ) x 703
Metric BMI Formula BMI = ( Weight in Kilograms / ( Height in Meters ) x ( Height in Meters ) )

Using the above index, I weigh 155 pounds and I am 5’8”, or 68” tall.

(155 / (68 x 68)) x 703 = 23.5651

Anorexia for adult women or men is less than 17.5
Underweight for adult women is less than 19.1 and for men less than 20.7
Normal range for adult women is beteen 19.1 and 25.8 and for adult men 20.7 and 26.4
Marginally overweight for adult women is between 25.8 and 27.3 and for men between 26.4 and 27.8
Overweight for adult women is between 27.3 and 32.3 and for men between 27.8 and 31.1
Very overweight or obese for adult women is greater than 32.3 and for men greater than 31.1
Severely obese for both women and men is between 35 and 40
Morbidly obese for both women and men is between 40 and 50
Super obese for both women and men is between 50 and 60

According to this BMI chart, I am in the upper range of what they consider the normal weight – height range.

My arguments with this chart are that it fails to take into account age, body frame and muscularity. My son Anders is the same height I am but is 43 years younger, very athletic and considerably more muscular. He weighs 165 pounds and his waist, like mine, is 32 inches. According to the above formula his BMI is 27.1198, which puts him as marginally overweight.

So where do you fall in this calculation?

Trump, how do you believe your coworkers would fair using the BMI formula? Also, how fit is Orlando, FL in general? Are the employees at your workplace typical with the rest of the nation? What is the age range and do you notice more weight on the older employees? I worked in a large corporation for many years. I worked side by side with engineers. I don’t remember any that were severely or morbidly obese. That, certainly, was not the case with many of the other employees at my company and we even had a complete health facility right in our corporate office in addition to one outside the office that was open 24/7/365 without charge to the employees or their dependants. Still, the majority of employees were overweight if not actually obese.

Have you ever seen the audiences in old TV shows from the 1950’s and 1960’s? They look painfully thin. Oh, there was the occasional overweight person but the majority was very thin by today’s standards. We expect people to be heavier today.

The below link is to an interesting report from the National Center for Health Statistics issued December 16, 2004 by the United States Department of Health and Human Services Center for Disease Control and Prevention.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/obese/obse99.htm

Another report issued by the National Center for Health Statistics can be found that provides news releases, fact sheets and media advisories for the years from 1994 through 2005 can be found at

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/04facts/obesity.htm

I don’t believe the question posed by this thread is too many Americans are overweight. I believe that has been firmly established. The issue that initiated this thread is about schools and school children. Personally, I do not believe schools should be “pushing” unhealthy food and beverage choices to the children in their care. I understand, and appreciate, that these schools do receive funds for the food and soda machines. I do realize that the monies they receive replace money from taxes. Still, I do not believe we should risk our children’s health to further bolster a large corporation’s income and reduce our taxes.

Jon885

05-22-2006, 06:20 PM

This topic's still up so I wanted to add something. I know it's sort of late to say this but fatties never win.

Being obese doesn't have any advantages. You say oh really look at the diet products they are getting. Oh how good fat people have it to be labeld as someone who wants to force people to eat diet food. Do you think having to pay for 2 seats on an airplane is winning? How about being ridiculed, started at, having health problems, and not being able to participate in regular activities? But these are only a few of the added benefits of being fat.

No I can't think of one good thing about being fat. Even if they did get a special privilege they still feel like an outcast. Any good thing about being fat like getting a bigger seat or some stupid shit like that is definitely overshadowed by the disadvantages of being fat.

setrict

05-22-2006, 07:57 PM

This topic's still up so I wanted to add something. I know it's sort of late to say this but fatties never win.

Agreed. It can be coped with to varying degrees, but it is never a good thing. It's right up there with being an alcholic or drug addict imo, and socially it's even worse since it can't even be hidden. A fat person starts everything with a self-induced handicap. It would be like taking a 100pt test with your BMI as a handicap. Obese people have to give almost 100% effort just to be average.

I'm always saying I need to lose 50 lbs like it's no big deal, but a while back I went to the hardware store to pick up a bucket of drywall mud. After standing in line with it, and hauling it back to the car I was pretty tired and already sore. The bucket only weighed about 50 lbs. With that realization I should have started exercising that day, but didn't since I was sore from carrying the mud. Piss poor excuse #432,144.

If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the road to obesity is paved with excuses.

Trump

05-22-2006, 08:40 PM

Well, let's see...

I weigh 175lbs, and I'm 5'10" tall. BMI = ~25. Like you, I have a 32" waist. I go to the gym frequently and run (really run) several miles a week through the sports I play. I got on a treadmill just to see last week and I (barely) managed a 7:30 mile. That made me feel pretty good. So while I'm at the high end of normal on the scale I'm probably healthier than most people around. They had a body fat tester (hold it press a button and it does something with electronics and resistance measurements who knows) and it read like 18% last time I checked.

There are about 20 people on the team I work with and I'd say 3 are obese, maybe 2-3 more are overweight, and 2-3 are very thin looking. I'm not going by the BMI formula or anything, but if you look at someone you can tell if their weight is healthy or not. As I go outward from my little circle to the whole company, the whole city, and the experiences I've had around the state, I see a similar mix (I haven't actually counted or anything). I really can't speak for other states since I haven't lived anywhere else. It also depends on where you go, if you spend time at fast food places you might see more heavy people, if you go to the beach you might see more skinny people. Maybe since it is Florida people get out and exercise more or notice when they start gaining weight more quickly and so there are less fat people? Who knows.

It's strange, when I stop to think it seems difficult to describe if someone is the right weight. You look at them and you can see their body structure, you see how their skin stretches over their muscles and bones, you see how they carry themselves, and you can tell if their weight is healthy. You can't just go by that formula.

But to address your point ruaidhri, I do not believe schools push at soda on students (I can't speak for the food, I always brought my lunch). Soda doesn't come with meals and there are other options like milk, juices, and water. Is it right to restrict access to these beverages because a few parents have no control over how they raise their children? Even worse, is it right to restrict access to these beverages because some unrelated people don't believe parents have control over their children? Following this thought we should also put an age limit on soda at convenience stores like we do on cigarettes and alcohol.

But maybe the "fatties do win". They come up with another excuse, that society is to blame for their problems. They force everyone else to accomodate their problems and inconvenience everyone. On top of that there are those who just become so accustomed to their situation that it isn't even a problem for them anymore. They are used to the stares and the sweating and don't know any better. It is almost like they feel they have a right to be overweight and everyone should make special provisions for them.

If people were responsible for their actions and the actions of their children, this wouldn't be an issue.

PopCulturePooka

05-22-2006, 09:22 PM

As a side to this discussion.

Due to pressure from health lobby groups, should McDonalds etc have gotten rid of things like Super Size Meals or certain burgers because of a nations obesity issue?

Mysticalmelody

05-23-2006, 05:54 AM

I'm 5'6"

I'm now 200 lbs.
I used to be 234 lbs.

According to the BMI I'm currently in the "overweight" category.
Before my current diet I was in the "severely obese" category.

Woohoo go me! I went down 2 levels of fatness. :P

Trump

05-23-2006, 11:53 AM

As a side to this discussion.

Due to pressure from health lobby groups, should McDonalds etc have gotten rid of things like Super Size Meals or certain burgers because of a nations obesity issue?

Really, I don't see what difference the super size meals really make. Especially in this day of free refills on soda, you just end up with a couple less fries...

PopCulturePooka

05-23-2006, 12:03 PM

Really, I don't see what difference the super size meals really make. Especially in this day of free refills on soda, you just end up with a couple less fries...
I like fries.

And you neglected to answer my question. Which is should fast food restaurants cease serving certain meal sizes or menu items because some people get fat eating them?

mawande

05-23-2006, 12:32 PM

As a side to this discussion.

Due to pressure from health lobby groups, should McDonalds etc have gotten rid of things like Super Size Meals or certain burgers because of a nations obesity issue?

Actually, that's tricky. The super-size meals mean just that McDonalds gets only a little more money and sells a lot more of what otherwise might eventually have to be thrown in the garbage. "Little" more money, I hear you say. Hah, just check out their markup. More people buy super-size meals because the price isn't much higher than regular size meals, and McDonalds is free of some junk they'd otherwise have to throw out.

The same thing functions in the customer's head. "I get much more for my money if I buy the super-size meal!"

But it isn't just that, for people don't go straight to super-size meals. They start with smaller servings and work their way up as they become addicted to the sugar and grease or whatever and their stomachs stretch, I don't have all the technical details. I'm pleased with Disney's decision to stop licensing toys to McDonald's.

Recently I saw a commercial for a curry packet, promoted by the Cars animated movie.

mawande

05-23-2006, 12:37 PM

I like fries.

And you neglected to answer my question. Which is should fast food restaurants cease serving certain meal sizes or menu items because some people get fat eating them?

This is not the same person you're speaking to, but still I neglected to be direct in my previous message. The answer is that they should stop serving certain meal sizes for a price that's barely more the cost of the regular size meal. In other words, hit 'em in the wallet!

Which, of course, would frustrate the people living off McDonalds' profits because there would be less profit from the people who resent being asked to pay more for food they instinctively know is cheap-ass anyway.

ruaidhri

05-23-2006, 12:51 PM

First and foremost I wish to congratulate Mysticalmelody on her loss of 34 pounds. That is significant. That took a lot of determination and will power. Don’t quit and don’t backslide. As you lose more and more weight you begin to feel better. Exercise becomes less of a chore and again becomes fun. Before you know it you’ll be in the normal range. You are doing something for yourself. As I always said to my two sons, be kind to others but most of all be kind to yourself. You are doing the right thing.

Like many I believe in personal responsibility. But, I also believe that industry has an obligation not to purposefully corrupt the marketplace for profit. That is what I believe many corporations, including McDonalds and my old parent company Phillip Morris did with its products. I don’t believe many people today would dispute the health dangers of smoking or even of second hand smoke. Well, there is also a danger in overeating and eating the wrong types of foods. The question then becomes should it be society’s role to regulate or penalize these companies. Threats of government action and lawsuits forced the tobacco companies to change direction. They still sell their product to people that should know the associated dangers but they no longer advertise and promote their product as youthful, sexy and acceptable. Many establishments are going smoke free. Whole communities, cities and states are prohibiting smoking in public places. Their concern is the individuals that don’t smoke and don’t care to assume the risk of second hand smoke.

Certainly food is a different matter from tobacco. We don’t need tobacco to live. Well, we also don’t need corn sweetened beverages and fast food to survive. We don’t need to confuse quantity with quality. But, again that’s a personal choice. Is it also a personal choice when, for example, even hospital beds have to be made stronger for the really, really super obese patient? Who pays for this? Overweight people are more likely to miss work and have serious health issues. This increases health costs. Who pays the bill? We do! I submit that while over eating is indeed a personal choice the consequences are felt by all.

We live in a capitalistic society. I’m heavily invested in corporate America. I believe in the system. But, it depends on buying and selling. The more a corporation sells and others buy the greater the profit that corporation can pass on to its stockholders. The food industry promotes unhealthy eating habits to make more money. Do they have the right to do that? Again, of course they do. But, we also live in a representative democracy where our government can write and interpret laws to restrict those rights and to make the offenders pay. Also, the people themselves can revolt. They can educate the masses about companies that sell unhealthy products. Those companies will most likely see their profits drop and will respond. That’s what’s happening today with McDonalds. Certainly, you don’t have to restrict your eating. Certainly, you can have refills of your soda pop. Of course, you could order another hamburger. No one but yourself can keep you from overeating. That’s never been the issue. What is the issue is companies promoting unhealthy eating habits for the sake of profit.

Of course, again, that’s not really the subject of this thread. The question raised by this thread involved school children and the food and beverages available in the schools. I believe we, the parents and responsible adults have the responsibility to keep our children healthy at least until they’re old enough to make their own decisions, which by law in the United States is 18. Yes, that’s a matter of opinion. But it’s rapidly being shared by more and more people. That’s how laws are changed and liabilities arise. Wise companies, like McDonalds, will react or disappear.

Trump

05-23-2006, 08:06 PM

I think my biggest problem is deciding where to draw the line. When do we let people think for themselves and make their own decisions? Pressuring McDonalds over the existance of super sizing meals is basically slapping my hand saying "no, no, that's not good for you!" Taking decisions out of the hands of the people just serves to make them stupid. Sure, sometimes you need to take action. Nicotine is clearly physically addictive so quitting isn't as easy as just eating something else. I don't see McDonalds advertising that their meals are healthy. If they were using false advertising like that then sure, give them a nice kick square in the rump. The same goes for soda. But when people start making choices for others, it affects me in a negative way. If I'm on a long road trip and stop at McDonald's for the first time in a month, I can't save a little money, super size my meal and make it last that much longer down the road now. How fair is that?

I guess I don't understand why soda in schools is such a big deal. Kids don't chug them all day, and most of the time they aren't even allowed to have them in classrooms. Soda isn't the only option, and there aren't even advertisements anywhere other than on the machines themselves. So people now want to take the option away? What if a student has a test after lunch? Is it our place to take away the option of a soda to help wake up even if the student doesn't drink soda very often?

There is a valid argument that school children are not old enough to make the decisions about what to eat or drink. But that is what parents are for. Parents are supposed to monitor what their kids do and it isn't *that* hard to figure out what goes on at school. Just ask teachers or other children and if found to be breaking the rules, punish them for disobeying. How can children learn if they aren't given the option to make mistakes? Again I'll say it, removing choice just makes people stupid.

ruaidhri

05-23-2006, 09:07 PM

Trump, I like you. You are one of my favorite posters. We share many of the same opinions. However, on this issue we are diametrically opposed.

I was fat. Hell, according to the BMI formula, I was severely obese. I don’t think of myself as a dumb person. I believe I have will power and know what’s good or bad for my health. Yet, I ate too much; I drank too much; and, I exercised too little. Was it my fault? Absolutely!

Food choices make it far too simple to eat the wrong foods. We are constantly bombarded with ads to eat. Considering that you are in good shape and health you probably aren’t aware of their constant presence. Get fat and go on a serious diet and I’m sure you will be aware of every minute some ad blares at you encouraging you to Super Size. But, then, that’s my problem isn’t it? Of course it is. I recognize that. I’m not suggesting that the food industry be prevented from advertising. I’m merely suggesting that if they fail to self police they might just find themselves in an unfavorable position regarding future regulation or liability. That’s the way the system works.

I remember when the Surgeon General first declared cigarettes harmful to our health. Most smokers disagreed. Cigarettes after all weren’t addicting; they were “habit forming”. It took years before the public finally responded but they now have and so have federal, state and local governments. I don’t believe the food industry wants to wait for that to happen. Corn sweeteners are cheaper, sweeter and more dangerous than cane sugar. Deep fried fast foods taste good. But, they’re not good for you. Oh, they don’t bother you now but how about 20 years from now. I was thin up until my mid 40’s. Then my weight topped out at 243 pounds.

Well, like you suggested I took personal responsibility. I also did that back in 1967 when I quit smoking cigarettes. At the time I smoked 2 ½ packs a day. Quitting wasn’t easy. I found that “habit forming” was a lot more serious than the cigarette companies had led me to believe. Well, in January 2005, I took responsibility for my weight. I joined Weight Watchers and I became serious about returning my body to health. Again, I found quitting difficult. You see, I was as addicted to my bad food choices as I had been addicted to cigarettes. The only difference is that most people today don’t recognize the similarities. I was successful at both quitting cigarettes and junk food and soda because of my resolve. Not everyone can stay the course.

As I wrote before, we all pay the price for bad health choices. Just because you don’t smoke or you don’t have a weight problem doesn’t mean you aren’t paying for other people’s poor choices. You are! Health costs are skyrocketing. The cigarette companies negotiated a multi-billion dollar settlement with the states to reimburse them for smoking related illnesses. Perhaps the fast food industry should do the same.

I believe a parent can expect and even demand that their children’s schools do not make unhealthy food or beverage choices available on school property and during school hours. When you release your son or daughter to the school you are depending upon the administration to take good care of them. Exposing, and, in fact, tempting them to make a bad choice is not acceptable.

Soup

05-23-2006, 10:38 PM

My school has toasters...I can't use them anymore, can't toast plastic forks >8(

Vidgmchtr

05-24-2006, 01:02 AM

I'm 5'8'', according to my license, but as for my weight, I'd say it's in between the range of 180-210, the majority of it being fat, not muscle.

I'm fairly content with my image (actually, more content than you people would want to know :P). So, obviously, I don't complain.

Middle school was more hell for me than high school was, as I was insulted about my appearance more there than high school. Around that time, though, I WAS a self-conscious fat bastard, so I fell into a depression in 7th grade.

Middle school ended, high school started, most of the assholes disappeared. O_O

I also stopped being self-conscious, because I was aware of the truth. All the rest of the assholes started to find futility in insulting me.

"You're a fat bastard."
"Wow, how long did it take you to figure that one out?"

By the time I entered my Sophomore year, I can only recall one time I had been insulted about my appearance, and cannot recall being insulted at all my Junior year.

I've also found other people defending me, including people of the opposite gender, which has never happened to me in middle school.

Though, from what I've seen, it seems to be a bit more socially acceptable for guys to have manboobs rather than for girls to have cottage cheese thighs. Though it is mean to insult them, as long as the insultee has a good sense of humor about it and it doesn't hurt their self-esteem, I'm sure there'll be nothing to worry about.

As for sodas being taken out of schools... I usually drink a can of Coke with my lunch (two small bags of chips from vending machines, I SERIOUSLY hate the cafeteria food). Though, if they were removed, the soda machines, I can switch to water, juices, or lemonades fairly easily (I had a can of orange juice today instead, mainly because the soda machines were out of order).

(Oh, just another note - I'm a guy.)

MNJetter

05-24-2006, 01:27 AM

I think most of us figured when you used "fat bastard" as your epithet that the assholes weren't trying to insult a female. That's a pretty gender-specific one.

My personal take on the soda machines......bring your own!!! It's already been decided that the schools can take measures like locker searches and drug tests and dress codes and banning backpacks in the hallways and metal detectors and stuff to ensure the safety of the students. I think it's been pretty clearly established that students have very few rights in school. And I don't think that "having a ready supply of empty calories and corn syrup" is one of them. If you want a pizza for lunch and they don't have pizza on the menu that day, bring a pizza with you to school. If you want a coke, bring a coke. At least they don't ban all lunch options and just serve one carefully-portioned mandatory option to all students, without even giving you the option of bringing snacks or bringing your own lunch, like they do in Japan.

Soup

05-24-2006, 02:06 AM

It would suck if air contained fat, think they would ban air?

MNJetter

05-24-2006, 03:35 AM

well, even if air contained fat, we don't absorb fat through our lungs, which makes banning it pointless. :P

Cherub Rock

05-24-2006, 04:18 AM

BMI's biggest flaw has always been with muscle mass.

There was a study done at my university about the size of NFL players and how many of them were obese. Granted by study I mean some girl went through NFL.com's player page and put all the players height and weight into a spreadsheet and calculated their BMI. The results were pretty staggering if you don't read into it, because the majority of NFL players ARE overweight, and many are obese.

What the study failed to mention was that BMI is misleading when it comes to measuring people with a significant amount of muscle mass. Now yes, those 6'4 320 pound linemen ARE overweight, and many of them border on obese. But according to BMI, this man right here is not only overweight, but obese:

http://www.nfluk.com/imagefolder/medium/Feature%20Article/peppersvbroncosmain.jpg

For the record, 6'7 283 is pretty damn big, but he also has less body fat than I do at 6'3 170. And while that is an extreme example, it just goes to show how misleading a study like that can be. According to BMI pretty much every linebacker in the NFL is overweight, and all linemen are. Hell, Tom Brady is in hte middle range of overweight.

Trump

05-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Discussions wouldn't be nearly as much fun if we always agreed! One of the most fascinating things about a discussion to me is figuring out why people believe the way they do. What people actually believe is almost less important to me than why. I think that is one reason I like posting here because other people seem to care about that as well. Now if only I was better at explaining myself!

One thing I have struggled with is the perception of advertising. I am a very independent person. I listen to what everyone says but then I always make my own decision for my own reasons. I listen closely to my instincts and feelings and while that gets me into trouble sometimes that is rare. My instincts and independence help insulate me from what is trendy or cool and that is how I see advertising. Most advertising is a way to make things seem like a good idea without providing any legitimate reason to support that idea, so when I go to make my decisions about what to buy advertising holds very little sway. I see all the commercials on TV and remember them (many times to my horror hehe), but when I think about what I really want I forget about the commercials almost entirely.

When I think about the astronomical amount of money spent on advertising I get very confused. From my viewpoint, advertising doesn't do much but you can't argue against those numbers. It must work on someone. Actually it must have an effect many many people. I seem to be in the minority of those who aren't very affected by it when the logical, independent side of me always takes over. Maybe my memory is playing jokes on me, laughing as I don't remember things important to the decision! (sometimes I really wonder if this is true lol). I see an ad for McDonald's and then my off the wall brain doesn't just think about McDonald's. It then goes into all sorts of other food I want and then McDonald's falls in closer to the back of the line. But, since I *can't* put myself in the position where advertising helps make my decisions, it is very hard for me to understand where these arguments come from. I accept that advertising is a big issue (the numbers don't lie), but I can't come up with any perspective on advertising in relation to other factors so I know tend to gloss of its importance it in my arguments. So is it really that hard to ignore those TV commercials and drive by the fast food restaurant?

When it comes to eating, maybe it has to do with my attitude. Instead of negative reinforcement, saying "I shouldn't eat that", I look for alternatives. When I think about fast food I say, "but I'd rather have some pork chops on the grill with a tasty coating of BBQ sauce." They take 20 minutes to fix from frozen. While those are cooking I take some frozen broccoli and stick it in the microwave for 10 minutes. Or I look forward to spaghetti, or a frozen dinner with a chicken breast and mixed grain rice, or green beans, or salmon, or... am I wierd for thinking this stuff actually tastes better than the unhealthy food in all the commercials?

I guess the other issue is in the schools. I can't help but feel things are going to get a little extreme if these people get their way. After they get rid of soda, will they take out energy drinks? Caffeine isn't healthy (though maybe it hasn't been proven to be deterimental to your health). Or what if there is a vegetarian family, they will want all meat products removed from the school because it is a temptation for their child. Jewish families can complain about non-kosher items. Taking it a step farther, many school serve pizza occaisionally. Well that isn't healthy, and neither is mashed potatoes and gravy. You can take this down to where all you'll get at schools is purified water, plain rice, and organic vegetables. Where would you draw the line?

Kiari

05-24-2006, 03:59 PM

I too really have a hard time understanding how people can claim to be so uncontrollably swayed by advertising... Why not just not watch the commercials? Why not just flip past the adverts in magazines? Why not just zone out during radio commercials? I can see children being easily swayed by bright shiny commercials... but adults? Shouldn't we know better?

Though honestly, the fact I don't own TV probably heavily influences this. I think I've watched maybe one or two commercials in the past year... and I had to download them specifically after being told they were funny.

Has anyone here been really influenced by commercials and maybe could explain it to me? Is it a cummulative effect that maybe I just don't feel because I'm a cheap luddite?

setrict

05-24-2006, 04:07 PM

Trump: you are right in a sense with advertising, but the important thing to remember is that any ad is targetting only a small percentage of the people who view it. I see a Di-tech ad, and it does nothing for me. I don't have a mortgage, or particulary want one at this time in my life. The ad doesn't make me want to go get a loan. Instead they are targetting people who are already considering taking action. It's the same with car ads. Very few of us see an ad, immediately fall in love with a car and run out cash in hand. However, for the brief window of time that I am car shopping if I do see an interesting ad it might prompt me for a test drive.

Advertising is all about name recognition and most importantly influencing impulse buyers, or those already in the market. They want to be that little nudge that pushes you over the edge when you're vulnerable. Fast food is very good at that for those of us who aren't smart enough to plan ahead for meals. Given the choice between a nice healthy salmon steak, some wild rice, and veggies or a Big Mac... I'd go for the salmon every time. Unfortunately I think about the thaw time, the grill time, the cleanup, yadda, yadda, and settle for fast food as a quick fix sometimes when I'm vunerable (tired and hungry).

The solution is easy to say, hard to do, and entirely up the the individual to do for themselves. I do wish there were some heathy fast-food alternatives though :)

Mysticalmelody

05-24-2006, 10:32 PM

setrict ... I totally have to make a pie like the one in your avatar for my bf :D, I think an apple one....

MNJetter

05-24-2006, 10:33 PM

Or what if there is a vegetarian family, they will want all meat products removed from the school because it is a temptation for their child. Jewish families can complain about non-kosher items.

These are very specific groups of people. The thing about the sodas is that child obesity is a growing problem for all children. Taking sodas out of schools might not be a permanent solution, and it certainly won't be the entire solution. But when the parents are obviously not taking responsibility for a problem that is obviously not only going away, but actually getting worse, whose job is it to look after the children? And even for parents who take responsibility, it's not like they can put a computer chip in children that will keep them from buying sodas without the parents' knowledge. A lot of people earlier have mentioned that it's up to the parents to control the children. Well, short of actually accompanying their child to school every day or convincing the school board to take away unhealthy food, there's not much they can do. They can send their child in with a lunch, but kids don't always tell the parents when they bring in extra money and buy unhealthy stuff on the side. I knew a guy in high school who used to take his lunch money every day (meant for normal school lunch - his parents had no idea), head to the a la carte line, and buy three chocolate-chip cookies and a big bottle of pepsi. If the school didn't offer these things, would this be a problem for him?

Taking it a step farther, many school serve pizza occaisionally. Well that isn't healthy, and neither is mashed potatoes and gravy. You can take this down to where all you'll get at schools is purified water, plain rice, and organic vegetables. Where would you draw the line?

Pizza has nutrition from just about all of the other food groups. Mashed potatos has nutritional value, and gravy counts as a meat. In theory, energy drinks are also somehow healthy for you....though I can't imagine where people get that idea. I think the idea is not to take out anything with substance, but to eliminate the things that serve no purpose but to put the children on a sugar high that is detrimental to their health and to their studies.

D-pad

05-24-2006, 10:46 PM

I'm in highschool, and have one thing to say. Healthier foods are more expensive. At my school I can get Mr. Pibb for $1 or I can get a smaller, worse tasting smoothie for 1.50. With that 50 cents I save $2.50 a week. With a lunch being only 1.70, you see what I'm saying...

Trump

05-25-2006, 01:04 PM

I have to disagree with you, MNJetter. Parents who take good care of their children know what happens at school. If you want your child to eat a healthy lunch, then pack them a lunch. It really doesn't take very long. I spend 5-10 minutes total making a large sandwich and preparing fruit for myself (which involves washing, cutting, packaging, etc). Money is not required! If you don't give them money to take to school then it isn't a problem. But you are correct, if you just give a kid money to take to school you cannot control what they get for lunch. But there are ways to see what your child buys for lunch. Ask friends, teachers, etc. If you give the child an allowance, well you then have almost no control over what the kid buys when not with you (with friends etc) and I'm not sure how this is any different. It is sad but I see 10-12 year old kids dropped off at the video game store (alone) because that is where they want to spend their allowance. If that is how people want to raise their kids, is it really my place to stop them?

This is why the issue is so frustrating to me. The people pushing for this are one of two groups. First is a small but vocal minority who believe (no idea whether it is true or not) that parents are not taking care of their kids. So it is up to this small group to look out for everyone else because they believe they are better parents. The other possibility is that it is not a minority and that it is all the parents who are too lazy to take care of their kids and want society to be responsible for them. If this was the case it would just destroy any remaining faith I have in mankind so I choose to believe the other one.

Regardless of who is sponsoring this initiative, I still feel like it is overstepping the bounds of parenting. Someone is trying to make the government into parents. We have no right to step into a home and say that someone is raising their kids wrong because they let them watch too much TV and to me, how parents feed their children is also not under my control.