AK-47 inventor: U.S. troops in Iraq prefer my rifle to theirs

[blaire576]

Last update - 13:25 17/04/2006
AK-47 inventor: U.S. troops in Iraq prefer my rifle to theirs
By Reuters

Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in
preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used [Kalashnikov] AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

Kalashnikov designed his first weapon in 1947 and is still chief constructor at Izhmash arms factory in Izhevsk in the Urals mountains.

The factory's director Vladimir Grodetsky told the news conference that around a billion rifles had been produced around the world using parts of Kalashnikovs or based on the same design, only 10-12 percent of which were made in Russia.

[Kannon]

The M-16A2 and M-4 rifles are not near as prone to malfunctions as everyone makes them out to have been. I have yet to have my M16A2 (when I was issued it) or my M4 (current primary duty weapon) ~ever~ jam or malfunction past what a simple S.P.O.R.T.S. check wouldn't fix, and a SPORTS can be performed in about 15 seconds when you know what you are doing. Now having that said, without a doubt the majority of American soliders do prefer the AKs over the 16/4. Just wanted to point out it's not so one sided as everyone makes it out to be when the topic of AK47 vs. M16/4 comes up.

You want a US weapon that needs to be replaced? M9. It wouldn't be so glaring of an issue if it wasn't for the "humane" use of ball and solid point ammunition (although recently the switch to hollow point has been made, still the velocity of the ball ammunition is too great). But that's off topic...

[Kaji]

The guy acts like this is news. From what I've heard though, the practice wasn't as widespread in Vietnam as they make it out to be, primarily due to the fact that the report on an AK is distinctly different from that of an M-16, so firing off an AK could result in a volley of friendly fire back at you because they'd think it was part of an NVA attack...

[Kannon]

Very true actually. (From the accounts of the Viet Vets I've spoke with anyway...) More often the AKs were picked up in 'Nam because they were A. out of ammo or B. lost their weapon due to a number of reasons.

There definitely isn't any mistaking the klack klack klack of the AK to the 16/4's pop pop pop...

[Kewl Imp]

TO me the AK47 is a machine not a rifle. But that is my opinion. From what I have seen of the weapon, it will fire all messed up. It just seems to me to be a machine not a rifle. When i was in the Army I like the m16. I had a jam on the practice day of my qualifcation for the M16 and didn't lose a shot because I used sports and the problem was gone.

[Daishikaze]

Actually the germans designed the AK, Kalashnikov found one while fighting in Germany and decided to modify it and make it better. He didn't actually design the weapon, he just made it better

[CanisKil]

Kannon, Where did you get the VS avatar?

From my experience with both weapons the M16A2 doesn't like the get dirty, wet, and/or muddy. Unless, of course, you slather the thing in CLR. A personal example was in Sapper Leadership School. I had(as well as many others) submerged my weapon while making a deep ford across a nice sized stream when we were ambushed. Suffice to say, my ultra clean, ultra lubed automatic assault rifle became a P.O.S. single shot for the duration of said ambush(SPORTS didn't do a thing). Many of my teammates weapons wouldn't work at all. Later, I had an oppurtunity to use the AK as a primary weapon as an OP4. After several days in the field and much abuse to the weapon(read right not cleaning it) including submerging it, it still worked like a champ.

On a side note:
The bullet casing of the M16 will fit in an AK, not much in the way of accuracy but lead still goes down range.

[Orclover]

This amoung many reasons is why I am a firm believer that the greatest enemy our Millitary branches have ever faced is and always has been it's contracted hardware suppliers. See "The Pentagon Wars" movie. The m16A2 isnt bad, but in this day and age we should be doing a hellova lot better without breaking the bank(unlike that damn OICAW).

[CNagy]

"Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder."

[Jiant Flying Panda]

Everyone knows Kalishnikov created the AK-47 after stealing ideas/concepts that came from the M1 Garand rifle and the Stg44.... So in a way it's not his rifle.

Edit: But then again.... This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine....

lol

[Morel]

You see the gun they want to replace the m-16?

It looks like a movie prop.. Bulky, heavy, and it depends on batteries for all it's fancy stuff. I doubt they'll have it battlefield reliable in 10 years.

[Jiant Flying Panda]

You see the gun they want to replace the m-16?

It looks like a movie prop.. Bulky, heavy, and it depends on batteries for all it's fancy stuff. I doubt they'll have it battlefield reliable in 10 years.

Yeah, I've seen that. And their actually trying to hit a 2010 (Or was it 2015?) due date.

Yeah it's bulky and it looks like something out of a video game but you have to undertsand that this is definately not your ordinary rifle. It has a GPS system, exploding rounds, programable rounds, scope, and last time I checked it was both a Assault rifle and a SMG.

The military definately wanted a weapon (Aswell as equipment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Warrior]) that suited people who were born in the mid 1980s and so forth that grew up in the information age.

Edit: Hmmmm. I just realized now that the XM8 project was scrapped. But the OICW is still alive :D

[Kannon]

Kannon, Where did you get the VS avatar?

Erm, don't remember really. Have had it forever. It's actually where I came up with my RP name (full name is Kannon Ashley, main char [not that I need to tell you] of Vagrant Story: Ashley Riot) And this was quite a while ago, before I found out "Kannon" was the name of the Japanese Goddess of Mercy... =/

I agree that the US Armed Forces does need to upgrade the primary duty rifle, I was just trying to point out that in my experience the M16/4 isn't as bad as many make it out to be, although others have had plenty of experiences where they might as well have been carrying around a 2 by 4, it's not always the case.

[Radiance]

Actually the germans designed the AK, Kalashnikov found one while fighting in Germany and decided to modify it and make it better. He didn't actually design the weapon, he just made it better

While you and panda say that, that man swears on his life that he at no point even looked at that gun. He gave an interview in 1998 (I think?) and stated flat out it was untrue. I'll see if I can't find a link to the interview, but i've seen it on the history channel a few times.

[Jiant Flying Panda]

While you and panda say that, that man swears on his life that he at no point even looked at that gun. He gave an interview in 1998 (I think?) and stated flat out it was untrue. I'll see if I can't find a link to the interview, but i've seen it on the history channel a few times.

What? I didn't agree with him.

The legend I was taught was that he stole ideas/components from the Stg44 and the M1 garand.

I never said anything about the Germans inventing it, lol.

[Daishikaze]

The History of the gun documentary I saw on The History Channel (or was it A&E?, was a long time ago now). Showed a gun that looked very similar to the AK-47, but it was made by the Germans shortly before the end of WWII. They said that Kalashnikov found one while fighting in Germany, and thought it was a good design but it wasn't perfect. He modified it so that it would work in just about any conditions and patented the design as the Automatic Kalashnikov 1947, or AK-47.

I think the confusion is because the germans didn't patent their design, they were so desperate for more weapons they rushed it into production and issued as many as they could before the Allies closed in on them. So Technically Kalashnikov can claim it as his own design because he patented it, but he didn't really design it, he just improved it.

[paul]

And we'll never know for sure if he did, or not...

[Jiant Flying Panda]

I think you are refering to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stg_44

[Psychochink]

He modified it so that it would work in just about any conditions

If that's what happened, then for all practical purposes he did design it. Unless you want to go right back to the very first person who thought of the concept of a fully automatic rifle, ideas are 'stolen' all the time. The uber-reliability of the AK is its most defining trait, and the first thing that people think of when they think about the rifle. If Kalasnikov was responsible for that aspect of it, then in a very real sense he did invent it.

[Daishikaze]

I just noticed what Radiance said about the 98 interview, the doc I saw was definately pre-98, so it sounds like he set the record straight.

[Morel]

Yeah, I've seen that. And their actually trying to hit a 2010 (Or was it 2015?) due date.

Yeah it's bulky and it looks like something out of a video game but you have to undertsand that this is definately not your ordinary rifle. It has a GPS system, exploding rounds, programable rounds, scope, and last time I checked it was both a Assault rifle and a SMG.

The military definately wanted a weapon (Aswell as equipment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Warrior]) that suited people who were born in the mid 1980s and so forth that grew up in the information age.

Edit: Hmmmm. I just realized now that the XM8 project was scrapped. But the OICW is still alive :D


What I'm sorta worried about is the militaries increasing reliance on high tech equipment that requires battery power, and a massive support system to work correctly.

Sure it's great , and wonderful in small scale limited warfare where the supply lines are secure. But what happens if a full scale no holds barred conventional war happens? When the batteries run out? When you can't have AWACS fully covering the battfield, You can't have nice clean well maintained runways for those F-22s that require 40 people and tons of equipment to keep flying?

I read an article about how some Airforce F15's went up against some Migs in a Mock air battle.. And the F-15's lost 14/15 engagements.. Not because the pilots were better. But because the F-15 requires AWACS for long distance radar locking and tracking. And the Migs had better standalone radar.. Kinda makes ya think doesn't it?

(BTW, the Radar was quickly updated and upgraded in the F-15's to bring them up to par. :) )

[CanisKil]

Erm, don't remember really. Have had it forever. It's actually where I came up with my RP name (full name is Kannon Ashley, main char [not that I need to tell you] of Vagrant Story: Ashley Riot) And this was quite a while ago, before I found out "Kannon" was the name of the Japanese Goddess of Mercy... =/



I'm quite familiar with the game, hence the question. GMB

[DizBukHaPeter]

Just replace the current uppers with a piston operated upper like the HK416 or ZM weapons and you've increased the reliability without breaking the bank.

[raydude]

I read an article about how some Airforce F15's went up against some Migs in a Mock air battle.. And the F-15's lost 14/15 engagements.. Not because the pilots were better. But because the F-15 requires AWACS for long distance radar locking and tracking. And the Migs had better standalone radar.. Kinda makes ya think doesn't it?

(BTW, the Radar was quickly updated and upgraded in the F-15's to bring them up to par. :) )

You must have misread the article :)
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004101421.asp

First, the 6 F-15C's sent to India as part of this exercise did not have the updated radar package because it would have required sending additional maintennance to India as well.

Second, the F-15C's were limited in their effectiveness by India's rules of engagement. In layman's terms they were gimped or handicapped. The AMRAAMS missles were not allowed to use their active radar, fire and forget capability and were limited to use at 32km or less. Normal combat tactics have the F-15 firing the AMRAAM at 100km away to disrupt the enemy force before closing.

Third, combat was at 3-1 odds against the F-15C.

Fourth, the US did NOT have AWACS while the Indian MIGs had a simulated AWACS platform.

Fifth, the Indian MIGs WERE ALLOWED to use their fire and forget missles.

I say, even the playing field by giving both sides AWACS and letting both fire missles at full capability. Then fight again :).

[whispering]

Finnish army (where i have to go in July) uses a modified AK-47, which looks like that ->

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4462/1113200146img73458xx.jpg

[DizBukHaPeter]

The Finnish Rk76 and 95 series are fine rifles which I cant get why you Finns are replacing them with inferior Chinese type 56's. A Russian soldier's worst nightmare is a lone Finn and his rifle.

[Vincent]

I read an article about how some Airforce F15's went up against some Migs in a Mock air battle.. And the F-15's lost 14/15 engagements.. Not because the pilots were better. But because the F-15 requires AWACS for long distance radar locking and tracking. And the Migs had better standalone radar.. Kinda makes ya think doesn't it?

(BTW, the Radar was quickly updated and upgraded in the F-15's to bring them up to par. )
f/a-22, although needing a nice spot of maintenance totally owns anything else the U.S. can supply. There were skirmishes with 6 f-15s vs 1 f/a-22 and the f/a-22 "killed" all six while recieving no damage. There was another field test where a bunch (forgot how many) against a few f/a-22s ad the f/a-22s rocked em' hard core. F/A-22 > all other fighters today.

-edit cant compare f-15's, even the f-15e's; they are essentialy obselete, minaswell forget anything that involves field skirmishes, especially since it was earlier noted there were handicaps.

[NumSkull]

The F15 is currently America's most effective aircraft, in combat.
We destroyed the Iraqi Air Force in the first war, with lots of thanks to our F-15s.

Soon to be replaced by the JSF, though.

[Kaji]

Eh, don't forget the F/A-18

[Urban~Ninja]

Also i do believe that the Ak-47 was harder to use in a ambush because taking of the saftey made a large clicking sound. Im sorry if someone already posted that infomation but i heard it from my Cadet Drill Instructor who served in Vietnam.

[Collapse]

Why is this even an argument? 47's simple to operate and fix.

[Morel]

You must have misread the article :)
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004101421.asp

First, the 6 F-15C's sent to India as part of this exercise did not have the updated radar package because it would have required sending additional maintennance to India as well.

Second, the F-15C's were limited in their effectiveness by India's rules of engagement. In layman's terms they were gimped or handicapped. The AMRAAMS missles were not allowed to use their active radar, fire and forget capability and were limited to use at 32km or less. Normal combat tactics have the F-15 firing the AMRAAM at 100km away to disrupt the enemy force before closing.

Third, combat was at 3-1 odds against the F-15C.

Fourth, the US did NOT have AWACS while the Indian MIGs had a simulated AWACS platform.

Fifth, the Indian MIGs WERE ALLOWED to use their fire and forget missles.

I say, even the playing field by giving both sides AWACS and letting both fire missles at full capability. Then fight again :).

Hrmm.. The version I read was the online version, so They may have left some stuff out, cause none of that was in the article heheh ;)

Well thats comforting hehe.

[Morel]

The F15 is currently America's most effective aircraft, in combat.
We destroyed the Iraqi Air Force in the first war, with lots of thanks to our F-15s.

Soon to be replaced by the JSF, though.


Well ya :) But of course with the superior training our pilots had over the Normal Iraq pilot, F-4's prolly woulda wiped them out :)

[Trump]

Who needs those wimpy guns....

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m107.htm

=)

[Dennis nist]

We swedes use a modified FN FNC 80 (automatkarbin 5 or AK5). Kind of old but reliable. They are testing a new version that are smaler and more adapted to the new kind of gizmos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ak5

But I get to play with KSP 90B (kulspruta 90 bertil). The swedish minime :)

[sgt. pepper]

I got placed in the reserve. I'm very dissapointed, i'm going to nag via Email until they change their minds.

[NumSkull]

I got placed in the reserve. I'm very dissapointed, i'm going to nag via Email until they change their minds.
What country do you call home?

[Mechs]

I got placed in the reserve. I'm very dissapointed, i'm going to nag via Email until they change their minds.

You don't get a choice?


And whats all this talk about the Ak-47 being over the M-16? I'll take a M-16 over a Ak anyday. Especially if it's a A4 model or M-4 with Picatinny rails. ACOGs and Aimpoints FTW!

[ST185]

:/ I work in a batallion that doesn't own a single weapon.

[Kaji]

Medical?

(just killing space until we get past that damn 10 character limit...)