Open Letter To The Disheartened Nice Guy

[OliveButtercup]

Dear Nice Guy,

You must restore balance to the Force. What Az says about the F.Z. is true from my perspective as a woman. However, if you are 'nice guy' and want a 'nice girl', turning into a COMPLETE asshole will not get you the 'nice girl'. In fact, it's not about being a asshole at all. It's about having self-confidence, and not putting ANY woman on a pedestal.

Women, just like men, can be difficult and frustrating to figure out. Women, just like men, will dissapoint and hurt you sometimes. Every woman is different. If you start acting like an asshole to get any and every type of woman you will fail. If you are nothing but Mr. Rogers to every female, you will also fail. Learn to discern which type of girl you want, and how your character/personality compliments hers. See through her character when she says and does certain things, and try to PAY ATTENTION.

Most women (people) aren't that nice. If you aren't that attractive, and don't earn good money, don't have a nice car, have a small phallice or don't have the personality of cassanova, you might as well face the fact that you're gonna have to work a little. That's ok. It'll be worth it if you find a keeper.

There are nice girls out there. I know this for certain. The thing is, there are so few us, we are becoming an endangered species. We are constantly being told that we have to look like Jessica Alba just to hold your attention for 5 minutes. So, with what we think men what and how the media tells us we should look, we are just as self-conscious as you are. We are independent, but still let you feel like the man. We offer to go dutch on a few dinner dates because we know you just want us to offer. We don't ask you for shit, but really appreciate when you give us things. We put our emotional issues aside so that you won't think we're PMSing 31 days a month. We look good and dress nice mostly for ourselves, but won't hesitate to put on that mini that you like so much. We keep our legs/eyebrows/p**y waxed so that you won't think we're too lo-maintanence. We listen to you drone on about God knows what, and act interested in what you're saying even if YOU don't know what the hell you're saying. We don't complain (a lot) about your 200 cd porn collection. In fact, we may offer to watch one with you when we're feeling extra horny. We get into those weird-ass sex positions you saw on the internet, and even pretend to orgasm when we could go for another hour. Lastly, we don't whore ourselves out just because we can. Instead we try our best to date the 'nice guys' because who we really want is you.

Sincerely,
a Nice girl

[Kragar]

Nice Girl

Thank you for your note of confidence. Some of us are doing alright, and have faith. he main problem that we have is figuring out where you nice girls are hiding. Maybe not you in particular, but as a general rule. Like you said, y'all are an endagered species, and sometimes you seem to blend in with the background. How are we supposed to find you?

Sincerely,
A Lonely Hunter

[Chelsums]

Dear Nice Girl,

I agree with you whole-heartedly and thank you for writing this letter. It really saddens me how quickly we are dying out.

~Another Nice Girl

[h2orowe]

Dear Nice girl,
I just ran into a situation such as this tonight but not the good kind. She's not so nice, even though I love her :(
If you want to know about it, read my story in the Stories section.
:D Thanks for letting me know not to give up hope!

Sincerely, Trampled on.

[Praetorian]

We offer to go dutch on a few dinner dates because we know you just want us to offer. We don't ask you for shit, but really appreciate when you give us things.


Only a few of your dinners? Sheesh. Once you go Dutch you'll never want to go back. More women should go Dutch.


Not just for dinners. Everywhere. Just do it.

[Shamu]

Dear Nice Girl,
I also agree with you. We are getting harder and harder to find and that makes me sad, because it makes the nice guys lose hope. Don't give up guys!
Thank you,
A nice southern yankee girl

[Snake eyeS]

Nice post OliveButtercup, Is it really that true? are the nasty skanks really taking over? are the assholes in such a majority that nice people really do finish last? Its pretty worrying, ive come to expect lame and shalllow behaviour from kids/young adults from 15/25, but i always had hope that things change when the last remaining puperty traits are gone forever.. ive met bitches that were above 30 and higher but i dont know if they still have the same shallow view on guys. is there no hope for dating? will assholes/skanks be something consistent in dating till you reach 40 year?

[Jiant Flying Panda]

Dear Nice Guy,

You must restore balance to the Force. What Az says about the F.Z. is true from my perspective as a woman. However, if you are 'nice guy' and want a 'nice girl', turning into a COMPLETE asshole will not get you the 'nice girl'. In fact, it's not about being a asshole at all. It's about having self-confidence, and not putting ANY woman on a pedestal.

Women, just like men, can be difficult and frustrating to figure out. Women, just like men, will dissapoint and hurt you sometimes. Every woman is different. If you start acting like an asshole to get any and every type of woman you will fail. If you are nothing but Mr. Rogers to every female, you will also fail. Learn to discern which type of girl you want, and how your character/personality compliments hers. See through her character when she says and does certain things, and try to PAY ATTENTION.

Most women (people) aren't that nice. If you aren't that attractive, and don't earn good money, don't have a nice car, have a small phallice or don't have the personality of cassanova, you might as well face the fact that you're gonna have to work a little. That's ok. It'll be worth it if you find a keeper.

There are nice girls out there. I know this for certain. The thing is, there are so few us, we are becoming an endangered species. We are constantly being told that we have to look like Jessica Alba just to hold your attention for 5 minutes. So, with what we think men what and how the media tells us we should look, we are just as self-conscious as you are. We are independent, but still let you feel like the man. We offer to go dutch on a few dinner dates because we know you just want us to offer. We don't ask you for shit, but really appreciate when you give us things. We put our emotional issues aside so that you won't think we're PMSing 31 days a month. We look good and dress nice mostly for ourselves, but won't hesitate to put on that mini that you like so much. We keep our legs/eyebrows/p**y waxed so that you won't think we're too lo-maintanence. We listen to you drone on about God knows what, and act interested in what you're saying even if YOU don't know what the hell you're saying. We don't complain (a lot) about your 200 cd porn collection. In fact, we may offer to watch one with you when we're feeling extra horny. We get into those weird-ass sex positions you saw on the internet, and even pretend to orgasm when we could go for another hour. Lastly, we don't whore ourselves out just because we can. Instead we try our best to date the 'nice guys' because who we really want is you.

Sincerely,
a Nice girl


Thank you!

I'm glad to see that nice girls have the same kind of problems that us nice guys have. This makes us nice guys finally feel like we have a real shot at getting the same kind of girls all the assholes gets.

[Pete]

Don't put the p***y on a pedestal :p (40yr Old Virgin reference)

Seriously though, putting women on a pedestal was always my main problem, and the thing is, when you get shit from a few women the tendency is to say 'Wow, this new girl is awesome, she's nothing like that last bitch who rejected me. She gets me in every way, isn't she so great?'

That's bullshit. You've just met a girl, you know nothing about her, she could be an axemurder, or like to hurt animals. My best friends are guys I've known for years, and sometimes we didn't get on at the start, so why when I meet someone who has breasts am I far happier to jump in at the deep end and get emotionally involved when if it was a guy I wouldn't be interested in being his friend until I'd sussed him out a bit?

It's hard to go against that and start treating a woman you're interested in as just another person you've met, but once it clicks, it makes life a lot easier. I can't really say anything to make it easier to do that, but just don't get emotionally involved until you've known the girl a while. Women seem a lot better at remaining a bit emotionally detached in the first few meetings at the start of a prospective relationship.

[OliveButtercup]

Only a few of your dinners? Sheesh. Once you go Dutch you'll never want to go back. More women should go Dutch.

Hah! I like that

I'm glad to see that nice girls have the same kind of problems that us nice guys have. This makes us nice guys finally feel like we have a real shot at getting the same kind of girls all the assholes gets.

Yeah JFP, I am also glad that you can appreciate where I'm coming from on this. We're out there, you just have to find us. Just like a good man, a good woman is hard to find.

Don't put the p***y on a pedestal

Pete, you have just made my new sig.

Ladies, good to see more of us!

[Shadowknight]

I've never understood the reasons guys are expected to pick up the tabs on dates. For the most extreme example there's the "gap jacket guy" story, and another story I saw posted somewhere else where despite telling the waitress they were getting separate checks, the girl kept getting $50 shots. Granted, the guy was an asshole for encouraging her since she apparently didn't pay attention to the TWO times he told the waitress they were on separate checks, but she also didn't seem worried about how much the bill would be since she assumed he was still paying.

[koku]

can we have an official nice guy/asshole/girls suck thread??

[Pete]

can we have an official nice guy/asshole/girls suck thread??

Is this too general? (pedestal)

LOL... My first glimpse of signature fame.

[koku]

Is this too general? (pedestal)

LOL... My first glimpse of signature fame.


mabye i Just don't get it but wait...yeah, I don't get it.

[Chelsums]

I've never understood the reasons guys are expected to pick up the tabs on dates.
I don't get it either. I guess because of the whole chivalry thing or something...? Still, I don't get why girls are so cheap *rolls eyes*

Of all the times I've gone out with my boyfriend, he's only paid for the whole thing once (which was just two movie tickets, anyway) because it was my birthday. On our anniversary, though, he went to pay the bill for our dinner and I wouldn't let him and he got mad at me but eventually gave in and let me pay for my half. Yay :D I told my mom about it and she said, "Why did you do that!? You should have let him pay!" And I asked, "Why should the guy always have to pay for things?" And she didn't have an answer. Ha, I win.

[CNagy]

The whole "guy pays for the date" thing probably stems from the idea that it is better to be in a relationship with someone who is financially well off as opposed to someone who isn't. With that in mind, making money a keystone in the dating world etiquette ("a guy should pay for his date" i.e., "does the guy have money? Is he cheap?") would let a woman see relatively quickly just how loaded her prospect is.

Personally, it's no set procedure in my opinion. Occasionally, I pick up the tab for friends, even my guy friends ("Dude, that movie is awesome. You haven't seen it? Let's go, my treat" or "You feel like Applebees? I do, I'm starving. Come on, my treat.") Needless to say I do it with my female friends too, but more to keep money from getting in the way of a good time (and if it applies to friends, why not someone who is more than a friend?) If you've got it, share it-- doesn't matter if you are a guy paying for another guy, a girl paying for a guy, a guy paying for a girl; there are too many fun times and good memories out there to get stuck on who should pick up the check.

[VeryMeanThoughts]

Most women (people) aren't that nice. If you aren't that attractive, and don't earn good money, don't have a nice car, have a small phallice or don't have the personality of cassanova, you might as well face the fact that you're gonna have to work a little. That's ok. It'll be worth it if you find a keeper.

I am unconvinced that working for the attentions of a woman is worth it.

[CNagy]

As for the Nice Guy thing, I think the idea is to be a good guy without being a Nice Guy-- which is a sort of stereotype, by now. Nice Guy Syndrome, I've heard it called, and it stems from the mistaken belief that Nice Guys tend to have that following a certain dating procedure and keeping to some very specific rules should win them the day. Nice Guys follow their code of conduct to the point where the woman herself is interchangeable, and that is something that the women I know (at least) pick up on in a hurry. Your approach should be custom made to each different woman, and grounded on interest in her, not in the interest of being in a relationship with a woman. Couple genuine interest with not being an ass, mix in a decent girl, and I don't see why anyone should fail at dating unless it has to do with personalities clashing, hygiene, or severe deformity.

[Mishka]

The whole "guy pays for the date" thing probably stems from the idea that it is better to be in a relationship with someone who is financially well off as opposed to someone who isn't. With that in mind, making money a keystone in the dating world etiquette ("a guy should pay for his date" i.e., "does the guy have money? Is he cheap?") would let a woman see relatively quickly just how loaded her prospect is.

Personally, it's no set procedure in my opinion. Occasionally, I pick up the tab for friends, even my guy friends ("Dude, that movie is awesome. You haven't seen it? Let's go, my treat" or "You feel like Applebees? I do, I'm starving. Come on, my treat.") Needless to say I do it with my female friends too, but more to keep money from getting in the way of a good time (and if it applies to friends, why not someone who is more than a friend?) If you've got it, share it-- doesn't matter if you are a guy paying for another guy, a girl paying for a guy, a guy paying for a girl; there are too many fun times and good memories out there to get stuck on who should pick up the check.

Personally I subscribe to the whole "if you pay for dinner I'll pay for desert/movie. There is nothing wrong with splitting it. Or if the guy insists on paying for dinner (which some have insisted) I will pitch in for the tip. That's how it goes regardless if I am with friends or a date. I will even lean over in the car and open the door for him once he has opened the door for me. It usually surprises them, but I still do it.

[VeryMeanThoughts]

If any girls posting here are rich, let me know. I want to date your money. I mean, I want to date you. because you are nice and crap.

[Shadowknight]

I remember there was semi-famous person a few decades ago who would have women ask him to pay for a drink. He would ask them if they sleep with him if he did so. If the answer was no, obviously no drink for them. If the answer was yes, a lot of women DID wind up sleeping with him.

[morganlefayw]

OliveButterCup,
I no longer feel so alone. It's wonderful I'm not the only female on the face of the planet like this.

[Thespis]

Well said Olive. :) I have found that one of the qualities women most commonly look for in a man is a man who pays attention. Granted they want other things as well, but one of the things they want most is his attention.

Yeah Mishka, I've had a few women who've done the lean over and open my door thing for me. Always thought that was kind of cool but never really analyzed it.

Shamu, I know (approximately) where to find you. ;)

[kiev33]

Dear Nice Girl,
I also agree with you. We are getting harder and harder to find and that makes me sad, because it makes the nice guys lose hope. Don't give up guys!
Thank you,
A nice southern yankee girl

I've pretty much lost hope. After dating three "nice girls" and marrying one of them, only to find out it was all a facade they throw up to hide their true nature's, I have given up on finding one and strive only to make myself happy for now.

I know not all women are like this. But like has been said, they are so few and far between and honestly, in such great demand, that I feel my chances are slim. I see quite a few women who are in abusive relationships, not leaving their men because, well, that's their husband, that it makes me sick, and I think that I would never treat them like that, and what do I get, the ones who decide to take advantage of my nice, easy going nature.

I admit, in the past, I did put my women on pedestals, but I have learned my lesson. Right now, I feel a little bitter. I expect that will pass one day, and when I find the right girl, we can treat each other like adults and care for each other.

But I don't feel very hopeful about that. Now, at least.

kevin

[frojack]

Dear Nice Girl,

Get back in your box please. You don't exist.

Sincerely,
Reality




:p

[PopCulturePooka]

I think one reason many guys have the 'Nice guys finish last' persecution complex is they mistake being an outright softcock for being a nice guy.

[tekkan]

Seems like we got a new fad.

Old fad: Guys: Nice guys finish last, solution turn into an asshole.

New fad: Ladies: Damn it! We don't have anyone left complain to. Nice guys stop turning into assholes.

[karioskasra]

I remember there was semi-famous person a few decades ago who would have women ask him to pay for a drink. He would ask them if they sleep with him if he did so. If the answer was no, obviously no drink for them. If the answer was yes, a lot of women DID wind up sleeping with him.

Richard Feynman. Proponent of Quantum Electrodynamics. Greatest Quantum Physicist of our time.

[Annorax]

Dear Nice Girl,

Get back in your box please. You don't exist.

Sincerely,
Reality




:p

Quoted for truthery.

Although my experience varies... I have no money, so I can't get any kind of girl, bitch or nice.

[ArkhanTerra]

Dear Nice Girl,

It may not be true, but it totally seems that way. And with that comes a lack of confidence and then, well, you see what happens after that.

Sincerely,
Unlucky

[Pierrot le Fou]

There are 'Nice Guys' and nice guys. The former can't help but lack confidence and are constantly putting women up on a pedastal while complaining about the derth of good women in the world, while the latter are perfectly functional members of society who make up in personality what they may lack in money, romance, or sex-appeal.

People who call themselves 'Nice Guys' are almost exclusively belonging to the first group. The second group are typically far too busy finding a girlfriend or are already dating one to complain about their lack of luck.

It comes down to personal responsibility. If you have bad luck with women, and you blame women, you're not a 'Nice Guy', you're an asshole. Do you honestly think that this is all the fault of someone else? Is it impossible to believe that you may have faults yourself which prevent you from being in a healthy and fulfilling relationship? I know the pain of being in crappy relationships, or making mistakes, but that's why I examine what went wrong, try to fix it, and go back out there.

If you want to cower and blame the world for your faults, feel free. Just don't be surprised when 40 years later the world is still against you, and you realize it's because you have been blaming everyone else for fixable mistakes that you've made over and over because of the outright refusal to examine what may be wrong with yourself.

The simplest thing to check is the thing you should check first. 'Nice Guys' strike me as the type of computer scientist who feels the compelling need to open up the case when his computer won't turn on, rather than making sure that the power strip is flipped on first.

[history1me]

So where are the "bad" girls?

[Samwise]

Dear Nice Girl-

Your head will look nice stuffed and mounted on my den wall.

- Hannibal Lecter.

[Arvynia]

Wether you're a nice guy, bad guy, jackass, a whore, a biatch, or a slut... doesn't matter. So long as the attraction is there and it's mutual, it can always grow into something. Some "couples" just have to work on it more than others.

If you find someone you feel you truely do like, and want to get to know, you will try to work with them - again, assuming the feeling is mutual. You act differently towards someone that is "special" to you than someone who is just a part of your life. I'm just saying: Moderation is key. Be a good guy, but not too good. Be a dick, but not a big one.

Perhaps maybe the world nowadays have become so fast paced, and we are unconciously become more judgamental of each other, or rather, the opposite sex. I mean, I may come off as a good girl/nice girl... but what if I'm really a bitch to guys who pursue me? I want the guy to know me. To like me for who I really am, not this facade "nice girl" outlook. Screw that.

But... don't take this from me. I mean, I've been single for roughly 4 years.

-me

[Samwise]

I can change that baby, just relax and take your coat off.


Bow chicka wow wow


In all seriousness (if that is even possible for me, we shall see) a relationship is a beautiful thing. In my experience, it just doesn't work for two disgustingly happy people to hook up. Opposites attract, you see. Which is why I am always absurd and smouldering with inner spite for existence, because I hope to attract a pure and joyful soul that I can latch onto and drag, kicking and screaming, into the tortrued pit of madness and hatred I call "home".


... The fuck when did I become so emo?

[Arvynia]

*lol*

Well, I see where you are coming from... I actually want to see how long I can stay single. I won't... submit to my desires... no...

[Benaire]

..... Resistance is futile.

[Arvynia]

actually, it's not that hard. I'm just a good girl trying to be bad. Or the other way around. Whatev.

[Benaire]

You just haven't meet the right person yet it gets very hard after that =)

[Arvynia]

Don't jinx me. I'm hoping to be single for the next couple of years. *becomes an ultrabitch*

I can't afford to have this.... GUY.... distract me from dominating the underground world. :)

[CrystalThrall]

Dear Nice Girl,

Where are you? Are you my next door neighbor? Are you the woman I see on the streets of the city? Are you the anonymous person I see on a message board? Or could you possibly be lady I see in the supermarket selecting produce? Will you and I ever cross paths in this lifetime or any lifetime? It has been said that everyone has that special someone out there yet it is not beyond the realm of possibility that our spirits will never meet due to circumstances beyond our control. My soul beckons for you yet the call goes unanswered. I do not blame you. I couldn't blame you. Do I blame myself?

There is so much I want to tell you and so much I wish to hear. There is so much I'd like to do and so little I'd ever allow to slip through our fingers should the stars align and our hearts meet. I do not wish to encumber you with my faults and shortcomings but I cannot promise perfection so I ask that you accept me for who I am and for what I can give you. I will always do what I can to see that you are content and not burdened by a person who worships you as a subject worships a queen. Equality in a relationship is what I strive for yet there are times when I can understand if one of us would feel the need to take control for a little while. I do not wish to dominate you and I do not ask that you make me your servant yet I will see to it that your wishes are met.

I ask not that you use my heart as a springboard for your activities in life. I present it to you without condition and ask that you do the same. No heart is without damage and mine is one with many a scar and thrice a story of love that has met a tragic end be it beyond my control or within my own control. There is no love that I would want to see dashed to bits as a ship would be on a reef, yet I would go willingly into the night and brave the dangerous seas of romance if I felt that I could be safe with you in my life and my heart in your hands.

A hopeless romantic am I? Perhaps. But I am willing to risk that title to show you and the world that I am one that would not hesitate to lay it all on the line for love...and I would like to think that you would, too.

--Crystal Thrall

[Mushu]

if i take out a girl on a date, really really pretty one, that has a bf im an asshole?

[KiwiKitty]

You know, I'd really, really like to think it's me that's causing me to be single? Except women keep assuring me that I'm a great guy and a nice guy everything. So this means it HAS to be something to do with women that's causing my singleness.

Although, seriously, probably is something with my personality and no one's game enough to tell me... I apparently make a good friend, though, but for all people tell me about that being a good thing, I find women will pick a partner from people they barely know, not from friends. I have an idea this may be because you haven't yet picked up on their faults... I know the few women I've gone out with have been people I hadn't known about a week before we started going out.

It's weird, though. Women my age, forget about it. But I must be considered a safe person to have feelings for or be non-threatening or something, because I have this nasty tendency to pick up 16-18 yr olds (that is, they fall for me or develop crushes on me) - it's cute, but after the first few girls, it got old, and as the years go by, I wonder where all these 16-18 yr olds were ten years ago when I was that age and would consider accepting their affection/attention.

Uh, well, actually, I DO know... because when I was 16-18, I had 10-12 yr olds doing the same thing, and when I was 10-12, I had 5-7 yr olds doing it...

I think I have to be cursed or something... at least another 10 years, they'll be 26-28, and that's a bit more like it... ah well, 10 more years of isolation and celibacy.

[Mushu]

Dear Nice Girl,

I don’t not consider my as Nice guy nor do I consider myself an Asshole. I’ve no desire to blame or despise you and your kind for all the trouble I’ve had in romance in the past. For blaming you for all my problems is to ignore my own flaws and to ignore my flaws is to never learn from my mistake and change my ways. For blaming you is to blame my own birth giver, which never the less is from your kind and that I can not do. I do not have a hint where you are in this vast world or where to begin my journey. Ill rummage through your kind and through the seven seas and treat everyone I met with respect and courtesy I would like to be treated and little bit more. If they do not find the treatment I’m giving them, which to like flower, giving them a bit more of sunshine, making them one my central pillar and make them feel like royalty. But if them can’t accept that, which is part of me, my dear I’ve not yet found you and my journey shall once more continue to find you as I know you will accept me with my flaws as I accept you with your and hold you in my arms till end of time. Until then my Dear…

Sincerely Yours

Mushu