Race: Biological, social or just plain stupid?

[Jay]

This is just for the sole purpose of not clogging up the pictures thread.

In this thread, we should aim to discuss whether race is a reality or just a social belief.

Proceed.

[4letterwords]

Is this a real argument? If it wasn't biological, then, for example, two asians that moved from Asia to Sweden that had a child... would have a Swedish child. They way it's viewed is different among different social societies, but it's a real thing.

[Roxie]

It seems you're confusing race/ethinicity with nationality.

Race is a social reality, not a biological one.
Ask any anthropologist (cultural) or sociologist.

[4letterwords]

No, I wasn't.

I just picked Sweden because people in Sweden tend to be blonde haired/blue eyed. I picked Africa because people in African tend to be dark skinned/dark eyed.

You're saying, if someone is born and raised in a geographical location, then they will take all of the traits of the other people from that geographically location. Yes, SOCIALLY, race is just a belief. But biologically, it's a reality. You can see that by looking in the mirror, looking at your neighbors, going to walmart and just looking around.

[King Kong]

Because people from certain parts of the world look similiar b/c of the environment? Because you've been taught "these people" look like "this".

Yes, race plays an important role in contemporary life, but the popular concept of it is flawed. The idea that there's some sort of distinct seperation (biologically) just isn't true. There is no single natural classification. Race represents important cultural catergories that can (and do!) change over time and place.

Race exists, no doubting it. Descendents of spaniards that live in South America and Mexico, still look the same as their ancestors and can be mistaken for mediterranean europeans.
I believe race exists as a biological factor since its easily visible, however race is only a superficial categorization. You can look white, yet be 15% black, genetically speaking.

A pure race doesn't exist

It would be absurd to say that there is a solid genetic grouding for race, however it does shape our culture, customs and personality and is very important in civilisation.
We should learn to accept each others differences before moving on to a better future for everyone.

[ShadowDeth]

It seems you're confusing race/ethinicity with nationality.

Race is a social reality, not a biological one.
Ask any anthropologist (cultural) or sociologist.

A-durhhhhhhh. :duh:

So you're telling me that blacks in america, are genetically different from the ones that live in africa? That's basically what you're getting at.

[4letterwords]

Now, if you mean that biologically, we all came from the same race, and therefore any differentiation between what is referred to as 'race' is caused by geographical factors, then yes, you are right.

But humans evolved into different races because of those factors. And because of those factors, we are, biologically, different.

[Veserius]

definitely real.

Race isn't entirely a social construct(which can definitely be real) but can be seen pretty plainly. While I was raised in a white single parent household in america, I am still considered black even with mom being dutch/lithuanion. Just because I was raised in the situation that I was raised in doesn't make my skin any less dark.

The same argument could also be related to hair/eye color if you wish. Being raised in a country and house that has 100% brown eyed, black haired people doesn't make your blue eyes more brown, or make your blond hair more black.

Now if we get into what race can technically be defined as, what I said can be thrown out the window. If we go on a more nationality/country of origin type dealy I'm american of dutch/lithuanion/african descent which is a bit more descripitive and including than the standard black for me.

I'll echo the stupid in the topic title as I don't see race being something that needs to be looked at so closely

[Roxie]

Race exists, no doubting it. Descendents of spaniards that live in South America and Mexico, still look the same as their ancestors and can be mistaken for mediterranean europeans.
I believe race exists as a biological factor since its easily visible, however race is only a superficial categorization. You can look white, yet be 15% black, genetically speaking.

A pure race doesn't exist

It would be absurd to say that there is a solid genetic grouding for race, however it does shape our culture, customs and personality and is very important in civilisation.
We should learn to accept each others differences before moving on to a better future for everyone.
I don't know how to say it any more plainly than I already have.

Race does not shape our culture, our culture shapes our idea of "race". There are no clear biological distinctions to claim a true difference. Phenotypes are very visable sure, but the genetic differences between two ppl who look very different are so infentesmal (sp), that there's no biological basis for race.

[Frankey-eh]

race is....just plain stupid
and interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.

it's a western idea.
I lived fine without knowing about it before!!

:watson:

[Roxie]

A-durhhhhhhh. :duh:

So you're telling me that blacks in america, are genetically different from the ones that live in africa? That's basically what you're getting at.
No. That's not what I said at all and how you got that will forever remain a mystery to me.

[ShadowDeth]

definitely real.

Race isn't entirely a social construct(which can definitely be real) but can be seen pretty plainly. While I was raised in a white single parent household in america, I am still considered black even with mom being dutch/lithuanion. Just because I was raised in the situation that I was raised in doesn't make my skin any less dark.

The same argument could also be related to hair/eye color if you wish. Being raised in a country and house that has 100% brown eyed, black haired people doesn't make your blue eyes more brown, or make your blond hair more black.

Now if we get into what race can technically be defined as, what I said can be thrown out the window. If we go on a more nationality/country of origin type dealy I'm american of dutch/lithuanion/african descent which is a bit more descripitive and including than the standard black for me.

Are you actually black or partially, or do you have a lot of recessive traits? I'm confused as to your situation.

race is....just plain stupid
and interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.

it's a western idea.
I lived fine without knowing about it before!!

Eh, knowledge is never inherently bad. It's always what you choose to do with it.

[Roxie]

definitely real.

Race isn't entirely a social construct(which can definitely be real) but can be seen pretty plainly. While I was raised in a white single parent household in america, I am still considered black even with mom being dutch/lithuanion. Just because I was raised in the situation that I was raised in doesn't make my skin any less dark.
That's called hypodescent and is a distinctly American ideal. Ideas of race in Brazil are very different than those here, for example.

[4letterwords]

race is....just plain stupid
and interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.

it's a western idea.
I lived fine without knowing about it before!!

:watson:

Before I reply to this... what do you mean? What are you saying by, ' interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.'?

I just wanna know what you mean before replying... :D

[Roxie]

You're saying, if someone is born and raised in a geographical location, then they will take all of the traits of the other people from that geographically location.
Over long periods of time, yes, their descendents will begin too look more like the people from that location.

Yes, SOCIALLY, race is just a belief. But biologically, it's a reality. You can see that by looking in the mirror, looking at your neighbors, going to walmart and just looking around.
Ah no. If I look into the mirror, I biologically see descendents from Africa, France, and Native Americans.

However, because of hypodescent, I am considered black.

[Veserius]

That's called hypodescent and is a distinctly American ideal. Ideas of race in Brazil are very different than those here, for example.

Care to explain, I'm pretty unschooled in Brazilian society. I know that have a bunch of people that we as americans would considered hispanic and sometimes black, but they seem to all categorize themselves as Brazilian. I have noticed that some people tend to be of purely Portuguese descent, so I guess that you'd have to have some sort of seperate word for a person like that right?

[ShadowDeth]

No. That's not what I said at all and how you got that will forever remain a mystery to me.

Want to know how I came to that conclusion?

It seems you're confusing race/ethinicity with nationality.

Race is a social reality, not a biological one.
Ask any anthropologist (cultural) or sociologist.


Race - n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.


There are more obviously, but they don't hinder or help my case any.

Now if you're arguing on the grounds that race as a genetic term is only valid when they are in close proximity to others, you might have some ground under you. I won't argue what the definition says.

However, even on a genetic level - despite the fact that people may be similar, certain groups of people generally carry the same physical traits among other things.

Yes, you can find someone who lives deep in a very rural part of Africa, who has blonde hair and blue eyes, who has come from a very long line of darker skinned people, but it's not common enough to factor into the discussion.

See: Recessive Genes

[Klilynkun]

That definition isn't very good because then any family that lived in a certain spot for hundreds of years becomes a race

[4letterwords]

Over long periods of time, yes, their descendents will begin too look more like the people from that location.


Ah no. If I look into the mirror, I biologically see descendents from Africa, France, and Native Americans.

However, because of hypodescent, I am considered black.

I believe the time period was 10,000 years for a race to change entirely to another race because of geographical factors. That isn't adaptation, it's evolution, and evolution is a biological change.

Ok, you see it because you know it. I'm assuming that you are primarily Black, because of physical traits. I would have to know you and your family history to know more about you specifically, but your case is the minority because most black people that reside in the United States are here because of slavery, and because, if you think about history and time, was a very short time ago. There IS a chance that people who were forced into slavery then, have married and procreated with people of other races. But, until recently this was almost unheard of because of social taboos. So, although it may be incorrect at times, it is a fair assumption to assume that black people in the united states are of African decent, without any... i'm gonna say... disruptions (I couldn't think of a better word) in the racial line. This isn't 100% of the time, but like I said, it wouldn't be wrong to assume that in most cases.

[Roxie]

However, even on a genetic level - despite the fact that people may be similar, certain groups of people generally carry the same physical traits among other things.

:boggled: but that's not what I'm arguing

I said

Yes, race plays an important role in contemporary life, but the popular concept of it is flawed. The idea that there's some sort of distinct seperation (biologically) just isn't true. There is no single natural classification. Race represents important cultural catergories that can (and do!) change over time and place.

People are more similiar genetically than they are different across the board. Of course people who reside in the same areas for long periods of time share genetic traits, I wasn't arguing aganist that.

[Klilynkun]

I believe the time period was 10,000 years for a race to change entirely to another race because of geographical factors. That isn't adaptation, it's evolution, and evolution is a biological change.

Ok, you see it because you know it. I'm assuming that you are primarily Black, because of physical traits. I would have to know you and your family history to know more about you specifically, but your case is the minority because most black people that reside in the United States are here because of slavery, and because, if you think about history and time, was a very short time ago. There IS a chance that people who were forced into slavery then, have married and procreated with people of other races. But, until recently this was almost unheard of because of social taboos. So, although it may be incorrect at times, it is a fair assumption to assume that black people in the united states are of African decent, without any... i'm gonna say... disruptions (I couldn't think of a better word) in the racial line. This isn't 100% of the time, but like I said, it wouldn't be wrong to assume that in most cases.

ok... go further back
scientists have said that man has evoled in the general region of africa- all man.

so techincally, according to them... everybody is african

[ShadowDeth]

Roxie - So what are you arguing then? Pretend i'm you and speak very slowly to me.

Who is you.

[Klilynkun]

Lol

i'm just saying...
what neko said is true to a point
but scientists take it further back
so her argument isn't 100% right

[ShadowDeth]

ok... go further back
scientists have said that man has evoled in the general region of africa- all man.

so techincally, according to them... everybody is african

Nu-uh. Why do only certain traits show up among certain people, who live very far away from africa? And why don't they show up among Africans themselves?

I think it's safe to assume if you share more than 50% of the traits associated with a certain race, you're that race.

[Roxie]

Nu-uh. Why do only certain traits show up among certain people, who live very far away from africa?
As a result of their environment.

And why don't they show up among Africans themselves?
Because those Africans live in a different environement?

Your question isn't very clear.


I think it's safe to assume if you share more than 50% of the traits associated with a certain race, you're that race.
Ok, so what about children who are half one and half another? You don't seem to be including them in that statement.

[Klilynkun]

I think it's safe to assume if you share more than 50% of the traits associated with a certain race, you're that race.

but you don't know what percentage of what race you are.. that's the point

If we take our ideas from scientists, scientists say we come from africa... doesn't matter how far you go.. how wide spread you ancestors go... according to most ppl on this forum... you are african.. which equals black = you can even be really light skin and youl still be black because your race originally came from africa = black, and that's your race


I don't believe that... but that's what it seems most ppl are saying.

[King Kong]

Before I reply to this... what do you mean? What are you saying by, ' interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.'?

I just wanna know what you mean before replying... :D


I think she means the label that we give to cross-racial marriages, are confusing.

I shall conclude, that race exists, but we shouldn't put much emphasis on it because its not something we have chosen or can change. Lets just hold hands and sing polish folk songs together on the green earth.

Okay, forget the last line :duh:

[Klilynkun]

that's like everytime any couple of different "races" have children, there's a new race born but no one acknowledges them....


WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN

:::cries:::

[Veserius]

I
I shall conclude, that race exists, but we shouldn't put much emphasis on it because its not something we have chosen or can change. Lets just hold hands and sing polish folk songs together on the green earth.

Okay, forget the last line :duh:

Sounds better than people crossing the street to avoid me, or muttering under their breath. I'd take a good folk song over that anyday of the week.

[Roxie]

Roxie - So what are you arguing then? Pretend i'm you and speak very slowly to me.

Who is you.
Perhaps you should read this over again and let it sink in, alright?

Yes, race plays an important role in contemporary life, but the popular concept of it is flawed. The idea that there's some sort of distinct seperation (biologically) just isn't true. There is no single natural classification. Race represents important cultural catergories that can (and do!) change over time and place.
I mean really. I can't state anymore plainly. What is it that isn't clear?

[Klilynkun]

the avatar is kinda distracting... hehe

[Frankey-eh]

Before I reply to this... what do you mean? What are you saying by, ' interracial marriage/emigration just complicates things.'?

I just wanna know what you mean before replying... :D

okay, so in Japan, no one talked about race. EVER. it was never an issue. I didn't know what that word meant. No one did. Well, not REALLY understand it. And everyone got along fine.

In Japan, everyone fits into one of these categories: Japanese, kikoku, Chinese, Korean, gaijin (the stereotypical gaijin is gold hair and blue eyes). No need to use race at all.

But now, in this extra-sensitive-to-race America, it's like walking on eggshells whenever I talk about African-Americans!
Most of the time, I use "Black" to refer to them, not because I'm being racist, but because when you have to write the same word ten times in a paragraph, you'd rather write the five-letter word that conveys the same idea than the 16-letter word. Same reason why I use Indians instead of Native Americans. Why do Westerners make race such a complicated thing? It's because race has always been associated with supremacy and dominance and oppression and stuff, isn't it?

If that's the case, then if no race ever interacted with each other, if one country = one race, then none of these would ever happen, would it? If everyone just stayed in one place, instead of constantly travelling, moving, emigrating, no one would know about the other race, and we'll all be happy with ourselves, right? But us stupid humans can't even stop ourselves. We go to new places, starts friction with people of other "race" but starts a different kind of friction with other people of the "race". We start picking favorites and making enemies. We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?"

I guess....if I MUST take a side, then race doesn't exist in biology, but as Roxie said, a human creation after a need to distinguish your neighbor who moved from Africa who looks chocolaty to your other neighbor who moved from Sweden who has a tall nose. It's different from Nationality where you MUST be a citizen of some country in order to travel to other countries (aka get a passport).

I just wish America wasn't so sensitive to race. I say you guys are just too darn paranoid. But mostly, I hate fine-combing my words through "peace detector" before I say stuff. I am selfish that way :P

[Klilynkun]

i think it's people just trying to get over their history and go forward. But it's not easy.


Japan sounds like jamaica really.
There are a lot of asian ppl in jamaica.
But once they are there... especially if they have children there and take on the culture (or most of it)

The "native" jamaicans don't call them asian anymore. They count them as their own. They're jamaican... although... to outsiders we would think it funny seeing asian speak patwa but hey... we're outsiders.

[Roxie]

okay, so in Japan, no one talked about race. EVER. it was never an issue. I didn't know what that word meant. No one did. Well, not REALLY understand it. And everyone got along fine.

In Japan, everyone fits into one of these categories: Japanese, kikoku, Chinese, Korean, gaijin (the stereotypical gaijin is gold hair and blue eyes). No need to use race at all.


Isn't there birokuman (sp) or something like that? I just read about it yesterday.

[ShadowDeth]

Ok, so what about children who are half one and half another? You don't seem to be including them in that statement. [/COLOR]

Wrong wrong wrong. I have straight hair, green eyes, and light skin. The fact I have a "black" nose and lips doesn't mean I consider myself black. For all purposes, including social, I consider myself to be a white person.

You care to refute that? Since I actually am directly 50/50 black white (in terms of parents - one being predominantly white and the other black) and don't just have white somewhere in my lineage like you?


Because those Africans live in a different environement?


Oh so now environment is a factor? Wouldn't a common environment fit into the definition of "race"?

Right. So living in asia produces different eyes than most other people?

Living in europe causes you to have blue eyes and blond hair?

[gentlemanandscholar]

burakumin, and ethnic koreans. They're oppressed like no others.

Well, they are oppressed like others... I just like that phrase.

[Frankey-eh]

Isn't there birokuman (sp) or something like that? I just read about it yesterday.
...I guess so.
I guess, after some research, people like "Ainu" and okinawans are also discriminated against in Japan.

[edit]
haha Roxie. calm down. "I guess so"="yeah, that's true too"

[Klilynkun]

You know shadow... that there are ppl that wouldn't consider you white no matter what you think.

There are ppl that wouldn't consider you white just for the fact that you live in america.

[Roxie]

Wrong wrong wrong. I have straight hair, green eyes, and light skin. The fact I have a "black" nose and lips doesn't mean I consider myself black. For all purposes, including social, I consider myself to be a white person.

You care to refute that? Since I actually am 50/50 black white (in terms of parents - one being predominantly white and the other black) and don't just have white somewhere in my lineage like you?
What're you on, man?
No. Why would I try to refute that?



Oh so now environment is a factor? Wouldn't a common environment fit into the definition of "race"?

Right. So living in asia produces different eyes than most other people?

Living in europe causes you to have blue eyes and blond hair?
No, a common environment would be sharing a culture.

Living in europe produces people with lighter skin and more body hair. As you go closer to the equator people tend to get darker and have less body hair and have a different hair type. This is all due to ancestors having genes that helped them adapt to a certain environment.

It in no way guarentees your eye or hair color.

[Jay]

Race is a social thing, to a degree.

Here in Australia, you have groups of people who are perhaps an 8th, or even less, native Australian claiming sacred land for themselves, so Westerners can't 'desecrate' it by building on it, etc.

But it's also a genetic thing. My parents are mostly caucasian. Both my mother's family and my father's family are from white mainland Europe and various European island nations, such as England and Scotland. I say white with a view to nations such as Spain, for example, in which the natives are often slightly coloured.

[Roxie]

...I guess so.
You guess? Was the book lying to me or something? Burakumin don't exist? was it out of date? Are these people treated more equally now or something?

Seriously, tell me. I know thismuch about Japan.

[Veserius]

In Japan, everyone fits into one of these categories: Japanese, kikoku, Chinese, Korean, gaijin (the stereotypical gaijin is gold hair and blue eyes). No need to use race at all.


How is that different than america? Just because you have different terms to deal with the people you see doesn't mean that they don't use race. Also since Japan isn't as diverse as America it makes sense for them to have less terms.


If that's the case, then if no race ever interacted with each other, if one country = one race, then none of these would ever happen, would it? If everyone just stayed in one place, instead of constantly travelling, moving, emigrating, no one would know about the other race, and we'll all be happy with ourselves, right? But us stupid humans can't even stop ourselves. We go to new places, starts friction with people of other "race" but starts a different kind of friction with other people of the "race". We start picking favorites and making enemies. We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?"



Sorry that people of mixed race are so complicated and confusing to you, its actually less of an issue with mixed race people than those from the outside. I consider myself to just be me, the question of what others perceive my race as is a completely seperate issue from my actual beliefs. I really don't see what the big deal is as long as you don't discriminate. Skin color to me is like eye color/hair color its different person to person, but doesn't actually have anything relevant to do with those people outside of social structures.

I just wish America wasn't so sensitive to race. I say you guys are just too darn paranoid. But mostly, I hate fine-combing my words through "peace detector" before I say stuff. I am selfish that way

Meh people are sensetive to race because it has been used to demean, humiliate, and oppress people for so long. As long as the word you use isn't used specifically used to be hateful(or be a common hatelful word) most Americans are cool with what you say IMO Except for those stupid activists that make them say African American and the like. I sure as hell didn't come from Africa so why the heck am I African American?

[ShadowDeth]

But now, in this extra-sensitive-to-race America, it's like walking on eggshells whenever I talk about African-Americans!
Most of the time, I use "Black" to refer to them, not because I'm being racist, but because when you have to write the same word ten times in a paragraph, you'd rather write the five-letter word that conveys the same idea than the 16-letter word. Same reason why I use Indians instead of Native Americans.


Being called black isn't an issue. Being called "indian" is deceptive, in that "indians" in who originated in america don't live in india. I would probably think someone is stupid if they called me an indian when all my relatives never lived there.

Why do Westerners make race such a complicated thing? It's because race has always been associated with supremacy and dominance and oppression and stuff, isn't it?

Yes.

Let me ask you something, would it be cool if I called you "Oriental"? I mean, it's all the same to me, and it's something that is easier for me to remember than part japanese/part chinese (I forget your ethnicity, so i'm not trying to slam you here)?

^ That's why you don't call a native american an indian, and also partly because it has derogatory connotations.

If that's the case, then if no race ever interacted with each other, if one country = one race, then none of these would ever happen, would it? If everyone just stayed in one place, instead of constantly travelling, moving, emigrating, no one would know about the other race, and we'll all be happy with ourselves, right? But us stupid humans can't even stop ourselves. We go to new places, starts friction with people of other "race" but starts a different kind of friction with other people of the "race". We start picking favorites and making enemies. We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?"


Nope. If it's not race, it's social standing. You're just trading at that point.

[Frankey-eh]

You guess? Was the book lying to me or something? Burakumin don't exist? was it out of date? Are these people treated more equally now or something?

Seriously, tell me. I know thismuch about Japan.


I edited it.

[Klilynkun]

I sure as hell didn't come from Africa so why the heck am I African?

damn skippy

[Roxie]

I edited it.
OH, ok! I thought you meant like you weren't sure if they (or any issues) existed. :boggled:

[Klilynkun]

^ That's why you don't call a native american an indian, and also partly because it has derogatory connotations.

That's why I don't call ppl black... and would not like being called black myself... and I don't call ppl white for the same reasons

[ShadowDeth]

You know shadow... that there are ppl that wouldn't consider you white no matter what you think.

There are ppl that wouldn't consider you white just for the fact that you live in america.

Europeans? :D

Those cheeky monkeys.

No, a common environment would be sharing a culture.

Oh dear. You're twisting the definition to fit what you think, not looking at it objectively.


Living in europe produces people with lighter skin and more body hair. As you go closer to the equator people tend to get darker and have less body hair and have a different hair type. This is all due to ancestors having genes that helped them adapt to a certain environment.

Unproven. That is a theory, yes, but it's far from fact.

So you're telling me that asians have "smaller" (I don't know how to describe it without being insulting) eyes because it helps them interact with their rainy environment?

Or that europeans have white skin because it helps them live in temperate environments?

[4letterwords]

okay, so in Japan, no one talked about race. EVER. it was never an issue. I didn't know what that word meant. No one did. Well, not REALLY understand it. And everyone got along fine.

In Japan, everyone fits into one of these categories: Japanese, kikoku, Chinese, Korean, gaijin (the stereotypical gaijin is gold hair and blue eyes). No need to use race at all.

But now, in this extra-sensitive-to-race America, it's like walking on eggshells whenever I talk about African-Americans!
Most of the time, I use "Black" to refer to them, not because I'm being racist, but because when you have to write the same word ten times in a paragraph, you'd rather write the five-letter word that conveys the same idea than the 16-letter word. Same reason why I use Indians instead of Native Americans. Why do Westerners make race such a complicated thing? It's because race has always been associated with supremacy and dominance and oppression and stuff, isn't it?

If that's the case, then if no race ever interacted with each other, if one country = one race, then none of these would ever happen, would it? If everyone just stayed in one place, instead of constantly travelling, moving, emigrating, no one would know about the other race, and we'll all be happy with ourselves, right? But us stupid humans can't even stop ourselves. We go to new places, starts friction with people of other "race" but starts a different kind of friction with other people of the "race". We start picking favorites and making enemies. We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?"

I guess....if I MUST take a side, then race doesn't exist in biology, but as Roxie said, a human creation after a need to distinguish your neighbor who moved from Africa who looks chocolaty to your other neighbor who moved from Sweden who has a tall nose. It's different from Nationality where you MUST be a citizen of some country in order to travel to other countries (aka get a passport).

I just wish America wasn't so sensitive to race. I say you guys are just too darn paranoid. But mostly, I hate fine-combing my words through "peace detector" before I say stuff. I am selfish that way :P


It is a problem because it's not realistic. Even you saying that most Japanese didn't really 'get' what race 'meant' is really... I dunno. It's gross. Are you promoting isolation of races? It SOUNDS like you're saying that ones race (nationality as you use it) should stay where there's an abundant amount of that 'race' living because it makes things 'simpler'. Or are you just taking the Japanese point of view because other races making Japanese people uncomfortable? Well, reality is that there are other races in the world, and Japanese people need to confront this, instead of living in their own little happy Japanese world (not talking about you specifically, seeing as you're in the United States). Which by the way, if you're saying that it's better to be where your own race is... how can you say that? You moved here...

**We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?**
The answer is, who cares? Race may make us biologically different, but no one ever said that that should stay the same. If someone says a child that is half Japanese, half america, is Japanese... why should that offend the kid? Because they happened to get more of their asian parents genes than their American, they should be pissed?

I agree, people in the United States are too politically correct. But that's not because we're somehow scared of people of other races (that goes for all races, not just white), it's because some people of all races get offended by things they shouldn't. It's not that America puts too much of a stress on race itself, it's that a handful of people from each race get offended because they feel they're being treated differently, so they ask to be called something different (asian-american, african american, etc) which just futher seperates us as a whole.

I WILL be living in japan when I get older, I will marry my fiance, who is Japanese, and we will have kids that are half, and if this bothers any japanese people, they can go straight to hell.
*We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?*
I quote you again, because this quote shows perfectly, as a society, what every person should strive not to believe. Fall in love with who you fall in love with, marry who you want, have kids with who you want, where you want, when you want. Life is too short to be wondering about what other people think, and shame on anybody who chooses to judge people in that manner.

[Roxie]

That's why I don't call ppl black... and would not like being called black myself... and I don't call ppl white for the same reasons
You're in London, right?

It's different here. I, personally, don't know any African-Americans under the age of 60 who don't mind being called black...and I'm not calling white people caucasians anymore. They didn't come from the Caucasus region.

[Klilynkun]

Europeans?

Those cheeky monkeys.

hehe

it's not just europeans though

[ShadowDeth]

That's why I don't call ppl black... and would not like being called black myself... and I don't call ppl white for the same reasons

I don't like calling anyone anything besides their name, but if someone asks me "who robbed you", am I going to tell him "it's an upstanding citizen in high social standing with his peers who enjoys urban music"

Or do I call him black?

It's just a convenience to me, but if someone ever expresses any sort of feeling of being offended, I will apologize to them and use a different term they are comfortable with.

[Klilynkun]

You're in London, right?

It's different here. I, personally, don't know any African-Americans under the age of 60 who don't mind being called black...and I'm not calling white people caucasians anymore. They didn't come from the Caucasus region.

I'm in london... i've only been here 6 years.

i'm under 60... but i'm never african - american - or black.

So why call myself something i'm not.

It's like calling lasgna - spaghetti... it doesn't look are taste the same... but you call it that because everybody else wants to call it that.

The world was considered flat at one point too.


Classification on a social level has never ever been perfect because everybody will never agree.



besides....







when your brown... you free yourself from all sorts of situations lol
you don't easily fit in a little box.... lol
people don't know what to expect because they never encountered a brown person before.... lol

[Veserius]

People are more similiar genetically than they are different across the board.


Just saw this for the first time. Isn't that kinda common knowlege? If we weren't that similar genetically similar how could we possibly breed interracially?

[Roxie]

Oh dear. You're twisting the definition to fit what you think, not looking at it objectively.
No, you're not being clear as to what is your looking for.

I mean really. Living in a common area could mean absolutely anything. but it /= to a biological, clear cut, racial division.



Unproven. That is a theory, yes, but it's far from fact.
No, this is more than theory.
So you're telling me that asians have "smaller" (I don't know how to describe it without being insulting) eyes because it helps them interact with their rainy environment?

Or that europeans have white skin because it helps them live in temperate environments?
I don't know why Asians have almond shaped eyes. That's why I didn't comment. We don't discuss people of Asian descent, like at ALL, in Ga.:meh:

Europeans have lighter skin than people who live closer to the equator because of the lack of direct sunlight that region recieves. As we all (should) know, you recieve certain vitamens from sunlight (I believe it's E). So, they have lighter skin in order to recieve more of the good stuff in colder conditions. People nearer to the equator recieve more sunlight and more heat (and wear less clothing), so the cells produce melanin to preven harmfull exposure to sun and other rays can be factor in skin cancer.

[Klilynkun]

I don't like calling anyone anything besides their name, but if someone asks me "who robbed you", am I going to tell him "it's an upstanding citizen in high social standing with his peers who enjoys urban music"

Or do I call him black?

It's just a convenience to me, but if someone ever expresses any sort of feeling of being offended, I will apologize to them and use a different term they are comfortable with.


true... but police officers don't use that term no more. So it wouldn't be bad to say a dark brown person.

[Frankey-eh]

Let me ask you something, would it be cool if I called you "Oriental"? I mean, it's all the same to me, and it's something that is easier for me to remember than part japanese/part chinese (I forget your ethnicity, so i'm not trying to slam you here)?

^ That's why you don't call a native american an indian, and also partly because it has derogatory connotations.
It won't matter to me if you call me oriental because that word itself, as far as I know, means "Eastern" (?) so that's fine. I am from the East, so what problem would I have with being called Oriental?

...but you probably thought I would mind because you know a different meaning, a deeper history with this word right? (I'm guessing) And you think that if you use it with other people, those other people will think that you aren't just calling them "people from the East" that you're also calling them this something else that goes beyond the standard dictionary definition of this word, right? this..."deragatory connotations".

But let me ask you. Where did those deragatory connotations come from? History? That's already over with. You weren't alive 200 years ago when the slaves in the south were breaking their backs for the white. Why do you still care what kind of connotation this word USED to have? (I thought Westerners were the ones not to dwell on the past. Eheheheh. ) So if that connotation no longer applies, then it shouldn't matter, right?

I'd say it still bothers you because you KNOW too much. You know what the word meant in the past, and you're afraid people still mean that when they use it today. Why can't you just accept the word at face value? Black means the color black. You're called black because your skin color looks black to my eyes. (I mean, you as in you in general). If your skin color was red, I'd call you red.

[kyaa the catlord]

The only time I ever think in terms of race is when a form asks me what I am. Then I get terribly confused.

My father's family is German/Swedish. My mother's is Spanish/Zuni/Hopi. My grandfather had darker skin than most "African-American" people. I don't. I'm a touch bronzed, but since I work midnights it has really faded. If I had to say I look like anything, I'm the fatter Otaku boy from Densha Otoko. Does this make me Japanese?

[Klilynkun]

"i'll Be Back"

[Roxie]

Just saw this for the first time. Isn't that kinda common knowlege? If we weren't that similar genetically similar how could we possibly breed interracially?
It should be, but people who strongly believe in racial differences argue that we're much more gentically different (not true).

[gentlemanandscholar]

It won't matter to me if you call me oriental because that word itself, as far as I know, means "Eastern" (?) so that's fine. I am from the East, so what problem would I have with being called Oriental?

...but you probably thought I would mind because you know a different meaning, a deeper history with this word right? (I'm guessing) And you think that if you use it with other people, those other people will think that you aren't just calling them "people from the East" that you're also calling them this something else that goes beyond the standard dictionary definition of this word, right? this..."deragatory connotations".

But let me ask you. Where did those deragatory connotations come from? History? That's already over with. You weren't alive 200 years ago when the slaves in the south were breaking their backs for the white. Why do you still care what kind of connotation this word USED to have? (I thought Westerners were the ones not to dwell on the past. Eheheheh. ) So if that connotation no longer applies, then it shouldn't matter, right?

I'd say it still bothers you because you KNOW too much. You know what the word meant in the past, and you're afraid people still mean that when they use it today. Why can't you just accept the word at face value? Black means the color black. You're called black because your skin color looks black to my eyes. (I mean, you as in you in general). If your skin color was red, I'd call you red.


The fact that the words still exist shows that the connotations have not disappeared. The word nigger has not disappeared because people have still used it since its inception as a deragatory one.

[4letterwords]

It should be, but people who strongly believe in racial differences argue that we're much more gentically different (not true).


Aha! See, there you go- you said that we weren't biologically different.

When you say that, that means AT ALL biologically different, yet there you just said that we are, but not as much different. I never said we were terribly terribly different, but even if we're 99.999999999999999999999999999999% the same, we're still biologically different.

You seem to think that by saying that we're different, we're somehow saying that one is gonna be better than another. Different does not equal better or worse.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

My Sociology book states this.

There is a great difference in a race and an ethnic group. A race, for example Arab Americans, have physical traits that show they are of a different color.

An ethnic group, for example Muslim Americans, can be of a different class, race, religion, etc. and not be a set race. Many people get confused between Arab Americans and Muslim Americans.

Prejudice and Racism is still rampart in the country with problems like Institution Discrimination and discrimination.

If you haven't already figured it out I'm doing a large paper over 9 chapters in my Sociology book and I have roughly 4 hours to get it done or I am going to be up ALLLL night.

[ShadowDeth]

No, you're not being clear as to what is your looking for.

I mean really. Living in a common area could mean absolutely anything. but it /= to a biological, clear cut, racial division.

Blah blah.

No, this is more than theory.


Prove it? Poll the majority of the biologists in the world, and if you can come back with a majority vote in one direction I will believe you.

I don't know why Asians have almond shaped eyes. That's why I didn't comment. We don't discuss people of Asian descent, like at ALL, in Ga

The fact your state is ignorant doesn't affect this conversation any. You would assume someone who argues so strongly for their cause would at least have prodded all angles to make sure they had the right idea.

Europeans have lighter skin than people who live closer to the equator because of the lack of direct sunlight that region recieves. As we all (should) know, you recieve certain vitamens from sunlight (I believe it's E). So, they have lighter skin in order to recieve more of the good stuff in colder conditions. People nearer to the equator recieve more sunlight and more heat (and wear less clothing), so the cells produce melanin to preven harmfull exposure to sun and other rays can be factor in skin cancer.

And what exactly is your timetable for this evolution to occur in?

Also, would you say that it's possible that people who didn't naturally carry the traits favorable to their environment would have had less chances to survive in it than others who did?

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with that theory, and evolution in general - but science is largely guess work. That's the first thing you should have learned during your "higher pursuit".

[Veserius]

It should be, but people who strongly believe in racial differences argue that we're much more gentically different (not true).


Oh I tend to not listen to people who spout things as facts when they have no backing to what they claim and the contrary has been proven true. So I guess I'm a bit behind the curve on others ignorance. That make sense?

I'd say it still bothers you because you KNOW too much. You know what the word meant in the past, and you're afraid people still mean that when they use it today. Why can't you just accept the word at face value? Black means the color black. You're called black because your skin color looks black to my eyes. (I mean, you as in you in general). If your skin color was red, I'd call you red.


The thing is that someone people will use a word that is technically correct, but use it only because it will be perceived as hateful. Nigger is technically just a derivation on many languages word for black, but it has hateful overtones. It is uses solely to try to demean people that they consider black. Remember its not the actual technical meaning of a word that gives it its true meaning, its how its used.

[kyaa the catlord]

The fact that the words still exist shows that the connotations have not disappeared. The word nigger has not disappeared because people have still used it since its inception as a deragatory one.

No, the word "nigger" still exists cause once created and used in literature, words don't just vanish. Language is something that evolves, but never truly goes away. This is why there is a bloody Latin wikipedia. Noone speaks latin, seriously, but it still is studied and the words still exist even though they have fallen out of use. Connotation is a funny funny beast. Cunt is the ULTIMATE bad word in Britain, but in America it is simply another word for vagina and really not *that* naughty. But if you said it to an English/Welsh/Scotswoman, she'd knock you to the ground.

Just because a word becomes perjorative is no reason to 'erase' it.

[Roxie]

Aha! See, there you go- you said that we weren't biologically different.
No, I said there are no clear cut biologically differences that justify the popular concept of race.

When you say that, that means AT ALL biologically different, yet there you just said that we are, but not as much different. I never said we were terribly terribly different, but even if we're 99.999999999999999999999999999999% the same, we're still biologically different.
Yes, I said we are more alike than we are different.

You seem to think that by saying that we're different, we're somehow saying that one is gonna be better than another. Different does not equal better or worse.
No. What I'm saying is that these differences are such a tiny party of being human that they do not justify the popular concept of race.

[Jay]

The fact your state is ignorant doesn't affect this conversation any. You would assume someone who argues so strongly for their cause would at least have prodded all angles to make sure they had the right idea.

:rofl: :clap:

[kyaa the catlord]

The thing is that someone people will use a word that is technically correct, but use it only because it will be perceived as hateful. Nigger is technically just a derivation on many languages word for black, but it has hateful overtones. It is uses solely to try to demean people that they consider black. Remember its not the actual technical meaning of a word that gives it its true meaning, its how its used.

Bullshit. Black people use the word, or a derivative of it, all the time to each other. It is not always hateful, demeaning and your definition, as you say 'true meaning', is false.

[Frankey-eh]

Are you promoting isolation of races? It SOUNDS like you're saying that ones race (nationality as you use it) should stay where there's an abundant amount of that 'race' living because it makes things 'simpler'.
Yes, I guess so. If every "race" as you put it have their own country, no one "race" would try to take over another "race" because we're all equal.

I guess, ultimately, it's not "race" that should stay, but that people should lose its desire to conquer others. If you are so greedy, no one would get defensive, and no war would ever have begun. :)

Which by the way, if you're saying that it's better to be where your own race is... how can you say that? You moved here...
I know... and look how complicated my life turned x_x
teeheee.
it's near summer, and I'm just in the mood to go back home....to china.

The answer is, who cares? Race may make us biologically different, but no one ever said that that should stay the same. If someone says a child that is half Japanese, half america, is Japanese... why should that offend the kid? Because they happened to get more of their asian parents genes than their American, they should be pissed?
it doesn't matter to the kid. at least not when s/he's still young. it's the adults who are overly paranoid. adults around her/him. All stemmed from too much knowledge

I WILL be living in japan when I get older, I will marry my fiance, who is Japanese, and we will have kids that are half, and if this bothers any japanese people, they can go straight to hell.
*We fall in love with people of other races. And what has it gotten us? Interracial marriage has just complicated the question of "what race is my kid?*
I quote you again, because this quote shows perfectly, as a society, what every person should strive not to believe. Fall in love with who you fall in love with, marry who you want, have kids with who you want, where you want, when you want. Life is too short to be wondering about what other people think, and shame on anybody who chooses to judge people in that manner.
1. I like your positive outlook :D No, I LOVE your positive outlook. I wish more people around me were like you (maybe with a little bit less swearing).
2. You're gonna have ADORABLE babies! ^_^ Because I've seen some half kids, and they look REALLY REALLY good. like their facial features... in Asian standards. namely their eyes....
3. good luck!

[Roxie]

Cunt is the ULTIMATE bad word in Britain, but in America it is simply another word for vagina and really not *that* naughty.
Are you sure?--that is at least from what I hear--it's not a big deal in Britain. And from what I know living in the U.S. all my life, no one uses that word without specifically meaning to make a dig at some one.

[Veserius]

Bullshit. Black people use the word, or a derivative of it, all the time to each other. It is not always hateful, demeaning and your definition, as you say 'true meaning', is false.

Sorry for my use of soley:duh:

Remember I said the intent of a word defines what it means.
Its a class thing. To lower class blacks who've had the word shoved down their throats by popular media, its ok to say it that way. They aren't trying to demean one another, its as common as dude or whatnot. Its not replacing black or african american in their vocab it just is there.

Now a person who uses the word instead of black or african american, is most likely using the word to demean. Why the hell would they use it over the more commonly used terms for any other reason than to demean or to stir up trouble?

[gentlemanandscholar]

No, the word "nigger" still exists cause once created and used in literature, words don't just vanish. Language is something that evolves, but never truly goes away. This is why there is a bloody Latin wikipedia. Noone speaks latin, seriously, but it still is studied and the words still exist even though they have fallen out of use. Connotation is a funny funny beast. Cunt is the ULTIMATE bad word in Britain, but in America it is simply another word for vagina and really not *that* naughty. But if you said it to an English/Welsh/Scotswoman, she'd knock you to the ground.

Just because a word becomes perjorative is no reason to 'erase' it.

Existence in terms of actual conversational use. Yes, latin still exists in books, but it does not in conversational english in its original form.
And the connotations of the word nigger still exist, so hush. I'm not arguing about different geographic regions either, so I don't know why you're bringing that up.
I also didn't say anything about how we should erase pejorative words did I? Jumping to conclusions ftw!

[ShadowDeth]

It won't matter to me if you call me oriental because that word itself, as far as I know, means "Eastern" (?) so that's fine. I am from the East, so what problem would I have with being called Oriental?


Well I wouldn't be. I'm actually impressed you're willing to rise above the petty affairs of humans, but a lot of people aren't/can't.

...but you probably thought I would mind because you know a different meaning, a deeper history with this word right? (I'm guessing) And you think that if you use it with other people, those other people will think that you aren't just calling them "people from the East" that you're also calling them this something else that goes beyond the standard dictionary definition of this word, right? this..."deragatory connotations".


I thought that because every asian person I've ever known has shown distaste for that word, and not just naturalized americans.

You're right though. The word may officially mean "eastern", but standard use of it in america has had negative emotions attached to it.

deragatory = Insulting
Connotations = What it implies

But let me ask you. Where did those deragatory connotations come from? History? That's already over with. You weren't alive 200 years ago when the slaves in the south were breaking their backs for the white. Why do you still care what kind of connotation this word USED to have? (I thought Westerners were the ones not to dwell on the past. Eheheheh. ) So if that connotation no longer applies, then it shouldn't matter, right?


You're a pretty smart person. You seem to have it all figured out already but I will humor you for the sake of the conversation: Yes, it is over with. But as Kyaa recently posted while I was typing, words and sentiments don't just go away with time.

Now, on the flip side, yes... we shouldn't care what words *used* to mean, but that's not the way it works in reality. I'll be sure to use that one when I get my nose broken for calling a black person a nigger.

My point being, you're pretty much correct. It has everything to do with history of the word, and even more recently who it's coming from. If you called a black person even a "nigga" when you didn't know them, and you didn't look black to them, they would probably hurt you. Same deal with "nigger" being used between two black friends. The most negative, violent thing you could call a black person and it's used in a joking context.


I'd say it still bothers you because you KNOW too much. You know what the word meant in the past, and you're afraid people still mean that when they use it today. Why can't you just accept the word at face value? Black means the color black. You're called black because your skin color looks black to my eyes. (I mean, you as in you in general). If your skin color was red, I'd call you red.

As I said before, in theory that's a great viewpoint to hold - and one that is actually more refreshing and innocent than the one most people hold, but again you wouldn't call someone with red (Native american) skin "red" or an asian "yellow".

I actually only think that black is tolerated because of what americans used to call them, and it's just more positive relative to the alternatives.

[kyaa the catlord]

Sorry for my use of soley:duh:

Remember I said the intent of a word defines what it means.
Its a class thing. To lower class blacks who've had the word shoved down their throats by popular media, its ok to say it that way. They aren't trying to demean one another, its as common as dude or whatnot. Its not replacing black or african american in their vocab it just is there.

Now a person who uses the word instead of black or african american, is most likely using the word to demean. Why the hell would they use it over the more commonly used terms for any other reason than to demean or to stir up trouble?

You do realize the only people I've heard use the word "nigger", or derivative of such, in the past 20 years have been either black, on television or mentally challenged. It is not in use in common conversation by anyone who isn't black. We use more racially-neutral words like "fucktard" nowadays.

[King Kong]

Cunt is the ULTIMATE bad word in Britain, but in America it is simply another word for vagina and really not *that* naughty. But if you said it to an English/Welsh/Scotswoman, she'd knock you to the ground.

:rofl: Who told you that? Cunt isn't the worst insult, in fact from experience the derogratory term "bitch" has a greater reaction. Better still, calling a lady a "slut" or "whore" is akin to setting off the atom bomb.

Be Careful.

[kyaa the catlord]

And, um, if you get your nose broken for calling a black person a nigger, you deserve it. Stupidity of that calibur should be painful. :P

[ShadowDeth]

You do realize the only people I've heard use the word "nigger", or derivative of such, in the past 20 years have been either black, on television or mentally challenged. It is not in use in common conversation by anyone who isn't black. We use more racially-neutral words like "fucktard" nowadays.

You've apparently never been to the south.

And yes, they are retarded, but they aren't retarded, dig it?

"And, um, if you get your nose broken for calling a black person a nigger, you deserve it. Stupidity of that calibur should be painful."

Way to read the context.

[Roxie]

Prove it? Poll the majority of the biologists in the world, and if you can come back with a majority vote in one direction I will believe you.
You first. How about you don't be an ass this one time, ok? Actually add something.



The fact your state is ignorant doesn't affect this conversation any. You would assume someone who argues so strongly for their cause would at least have prodded all angles to make sure they had the right idea.
Sorry, but going to college full time and working have monopolized my time and I cannot write a thesis for you. You'll have to wait. But I will ask some of my professors, who are doctors in the field about it. Cause I'm curious myself.



And what exactly is your timetable for this evolution to occur in?
years. lots of them, perhaps even millions.

Also, would you say that it's possible that people who didn't naturally carry the traits favorable to their environment would have had less chances to survive in it than others who did?
Yes I would.

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with that theory, and evolution in general - but science is largely guess work. That's the first thing you should have learned during your "higher pursuit".
No shit, Sherlock. You should've also learned how to clarify questions and debate without actually personally insulting people. That could help you alot.

I mean, seriously now, you can disagree and bring up your points and that's cool.

But how're you going to sit here and not back up anything you say? Or even bring up a new arguement. Then have the gall to call me names? Dude, wtf? This is so not called for. I mean hell, at least I used a passage from Boyd & Silk's work.

I can put you in touch with some Doctors of anth, soci, and bio if you'd like. So you can ask them yourself.

[gentlemanandscholar]

You do realize the only people I've heard use the word "nigger", or derivative of such, in the past 20 years have been either black, on television or mentally challenged. It is not in use in common conversation by anyone who isn't black. We use more racially-neutral words like "fucktard" nowadays.

You haven't been around any racist people then. Congratulations.

[Veserius]

You do realize the only people I've heard use the word "nigger", or derivative of such, in the past 20 years have been either black, on television or mentally challenged. It is not in use in common conversation by anyone who isn't black. We use more racially-neutral words like "fucktard" nowadays.

Question#1 whats a fucktard? It has fuck with a piece of retard on it,care to elaborate?

Question#2 Being called a nigger is something that happens to people that are generally perceived as black. Its happened to me mulitple times throughout my life. I live in a place that is supposedly above this in California, so I can't even imagine whats its like in places in the south.

[Frankey-eh]

Well I wouldn't be. I'm actually impressed you're willing to rise above the petty affairs of humans, but a lot of people aren't/can't.

I thought that because every asian person I've ever known has shown distaste for that word, and not just naturalized americans.

I won't be insulted because I don't KNOW what other meaning it holds. :D
Same thing with Jap. I had no idea it was used during WWII by Americans. I just used it as a shortcut. And I saw others using it as a shortcut. And I lived happy. Now, though, whenever I want to shorten Japan, I have to type jpn, and it's really no big deal, but an extra step is still one too many steps! :)

nigger..
actually, I just learned about the "deragetory connotations" for this word this year, while reading Invisible Man. We were discussing the book, and I quoted a passage with the word "nigger" in it, and three other people in my group jumped on me >_< I ask "why can I use the word nigger?" and they cringed some more. *sigh*

you wouldn't call someone with red (Native american) skin "red" or an asian "yellow".
actually...Native Americans aren't red. They don't look red to me. You know who does though? Italians. They look red to me, and that's who I was imagining when I said "If you look red, I'd call you red"....^^;
it's just an impression this one person gave me.

[4letterwords]

Yes, I guess so. If every "race" as you put it have their own country, no one "race" would try to take over another "race" because we're all equal.

I guess, ultimately, it's not "race" that should stay, but that people should lose its desire to conquer others. If you are so greedy, no one would get defensive, and no war would ever have begun. :)


I know... and look how complicated my life turned x_x
teeheee.
it's near summer, and I'm just in the mood to go back home....to china.


it doesn't matter to the kid. at least not when s/he's still young. it's the adults who are overly paranoid. adults around her/him. All stemmed from too much knowledge


1. I like your positive outlook :D No, I LOVE your positive outlook. I wish more people around me were like you (maybe with a little bit less swearing).
2. You're gonna have ADORABLE babies! ^_^ Because I've seen some half kids, and they look REALLY REALLY good. like their facial features... in Asian standards. namely their eyes....
3. good luck!


See, and now I understand your point. Thank you for not being bitchy. ;)

You're right, technically, about WHAT you believe. But then you have to throw in the human factor, that most humans are ignorant. If you choose to stay in your country because it's easier, then that's fine. But if you believe that others who don't are wrong in anyway, that's when I get defensive. I believe that people as human beings should open their horizons and find what works best for them. Race/Nationality/Religion/Gender/Sexual Preference should have nothing to do with it. *in a perfect world anyway*

[Jay]

"And, um, if you get your nose broken for calling a black person a nigger, you deserve it. Stupidity of that calibur should be painful."

Way to read the context.

Pwned. :D

[kyaa the catlord]

Question#1 whats a fucktard? It has fuck with a piece of retard on it,care to elaborate?

Question#2 Being called a nigger is something that happens to people that are generally perceived as black. Its happened to me mulitple times throughout my life. I live in a place that is supposedly above this in California, so I can't even imagine whats its like in places in the south.


You're a fucktard, fucktard. :P Its a multipurpose, equal opportunity curse insult. You should use it. Amaze your fucktard friends. :P

You must live in California if you honestly believe its above anywhere else, no insult intended, it is just that Cali has this superiority complex that doesn't reflect reality.

[ShadowDeth]

You first. How about you don't be an ass this one time, ok? Actually add something.

What do I have to prove exactly? The burden of proof is on you sonny, i'm not the one making very bold claims about genetics here. I'm just saying that you don't have all the information.

Do you want me to prove that? Because I have repeatedly. I can do it again if needed though.


Sorry, but going to college full time and working have monopolized my time and I cannot write a thesis for you. You'll have to wait. But I will ask some of my professors, who are doctors in the field about it. Cause I'm curious myself.


That isn't an excuse. You shouldn't open your mouth and say something that is pretty polarized without investing some thought into it.

years. lots of them, perhaps even millions.

Such a vague answer! It's almost as if you're not even sure you believe in evolution!

Yes I would.

Well you've admitted defeat, because natural selection and evolution as you see it are two totally different theories, both completely unverifiable. We haven't been able to accurately interpret and record data long enough back into history to have the information we would need.


I can put you in touch with some Doctors of anth, soci, and bio if you'd like. So you can ask them yourself

I'd prefer not to talk to any scholars who hail from georgia. Thanks though.

[kyaa the catlord]

Pwned. :D

I should know better than to respond to Neko, she's off the list.

[gentlemanandscholar]

The bible has all the answers.

[kyaa the catlord]

I won't be insulted because I don't KNOW what other meaning it holds. :D
Same thing with Jap. I had no idea it was used during WWII by Americans. I just used it as a shortcut. And I saw others using it as a shortcut. And I lived happy. Now, though, whenever I want to shorten Japan, I have to type jpn, and it's really no big deal, but an extra step is still one too many steps! :)

.
actually, I just learned about the "deragetory connotations" for this word this year, while reading Invisible Man. We were discussing the book, and I quoted a passage with the word "nigger" in it, and three other people in my group jumped on me >_< I ask "why can I use the word nigger?" and they cringed some more. *sigh*


actually...Native Americans aren't red. They don't look red to me. You know who does though? Italians. They look red to me, and that's who I was imagining when I said "If you look red, I'd call you red"....^^;
it's just an impression this one person gave me.

Native Americans USED to be red. When they rode horses and wore warpaint.

Now they've been assimilated and have become more tan, like most other Americans. Mexican and south indians are darker skinned, but don't really have the cool reddish tone that some Indians have/had.... It was a NA thing. They were cool. Too bad the whiteys ate them.

[ShadowDeth]

I won't be insulted because I don't KNOW what other meaning it holds. :D
Same thing with Jap. I had no idea it was used during WWII by Americans. I just used it as a shortcut. And I saw others using it as a shortcut. And I lived happy. Now, though, whenever I want to shorten Japan, I have to type jpn, and it's really no big deal, but an extra step is still one too many steps! :)


heh, I hear ya. My point was that lots of other people feel differently than you do, and while you may be 100% correct with your stance on race relations, others won't see it that way.


actually, I just learned about the "deragetory connotations" for this word this year, while reading Invisible Man. We were discussing the book, and I quoted a passage with the word "nigger" in it, and three other people in my group jumped on me >_< I ask "why can I use the word nigger?" and they cringed some more. *sigh*


Haha.


actually...Native Americans aren't red. They don't look red to me. You know who does though? Italians. They look red to me, and that's who I was imagining when I said "If you look red, I'd call you red"....^^;
it's just an impression this one person gave me.

:rofl:

Yeah, those dirty red italians.

You're pretty funny, a lot more than you probably think. It's all in perception though, because stuff like this is subjective - it's best to tread in a neutral direction.

[Kuri]

I'm gonna go with social, simply because the idea of race has evolved along with cultural perspectives of other ideas, and science.

Not that long ago, couple hundred years, race wasn't a biological term but it meant a group of people with the same language, customs, and social values. Or at least according to my history book "A history of Western Society" by McKay, Hill, and Buckler.

Different views of nationalism, uchisoto mentality (we have it in the west too), and scientific models of race have effected our outlook on how we describe what race is.

These days in our relatively international society we tend to define race biologically, but atribute (generally) each race with a specific culture. There are people who'll share the culture outside of the race, but they aren't often seen as a part of the race.

So that's my oppinion on it at least.

The dictionary I just opened gives three ideas of race... and one about plants

Race: 1) A subdivision of mankind having a relatively constant set of physical traits, such as color of skin and eyes, stature, texture of hair, etc
2) Any group of people according to geography, nation, etc
3) Any class of people having similar activities, interests, etc

Please correct any mistakes I made

[kyaa the catlord]

The bible has all the answers.

Sure does. "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" is possibly the most profound life path available.

Don't bag it cause the Christians don't know JACK about being Christians.

[kyaa the catlord]

I am a shining example of the otaku race.

[gentlemanandscholar]

Sure does. "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" is possibly the most profound life path available.

Don't bag it cause the Christians don't know JACK about being Christians.

I was parodying said Christians with my statement.

[Roxie]

What do I have to prove exactly? The burden of proof is on you sonny, i'm not the one making very bold claims about genetics here. I'm just saying that you don't have all the information.
These are not very bold claims at all. I've heard in them in several documentaries and read them in several books.

Do you want me to prove that? Because I have repeatedly. I can do it again if needed though.
You haven't proved anything.



That isn't an excuse. You shouldn't open your mouth and say something that is pretty polarized without investing some thought into it.
This isn't very polarizing at all. Ask a biologist.



Such a vague answer! It's almost as if you're not even sure you believe in evolution!
No, I just don't answer questions that are set up for auto-wrong.



Well you've admitted defeat, because natural selection and evolution as you see it are two totally different theories, both completely unverifiable.
Can you quote me on that? I never mentioned evolution. I mentioned adaption. Like when a lighter skinned person who spends time in daylight tans? Yeah, that's not them evolving, that's their skin cells adapting to the rays.

I'd prefer not to talk to any scholars who hail from georgia. Thanks though.
So you don't really care about learning anything about what I've said? Beacuse I don't have a doctorate, I must be wrong, but you won't listen to any doctors I know cause they're from GA. Wow. Actually, you have no idea where they're from or where they've earned their doctorates.

You just like to hear yourself talk and insult others. You like to browbeat without moving forward. How proud you must be.

[ShadowDeth]

These days in our relatively international society we tend to define race biologically, but atribute (generally) each race with a specific culture. There are people who'll share the culture outside of the race, but they aren't often seen as a part of the race.


This is very true. It just comes down to who you're speaking to though, since no one can seem to agree on what you mean when you mention a race.


Please correct any mistakes I made

Independent thought would be the first one. Move to Georgia.

[Frankey-eh]

Native Americans USED to be red. When they rode horses and wore warpaint.

Now they've been assimilated and have become more tan, like most other Americans. Mexican and south indians are darker skinned, but don't really have the cool reddish tone that some Indians have/had.... It was a NA thing. They were cool. Too bad the whiteys ate them.

I know about how historically, Native Americans are called red, Asians are called yellow, etc.

But

I judge people by the memories I have in my head, not history book. I used to have a Native American friend. He was really tan, but not black, and had really big ears, and a really nice guy. He looks nothing red, so Native Americans aren't red to me. I also once had a neighbor who was Italian and on a good sunny day, his skin shone red. So thus Italians are red.

I mean, you can say I'm judging a whole group of people based on one person. But it's a whole lot better than judging a whole group of people based on their historical past, right? And if I meet another Native American who looks orange, then I'll think about it. :P


P.S. Hmm...did the red thing come from the fact that they'd get covered in red sand in Arizona while they're riding on their horses? Just curious, because I can never imagine them red.

[kyaa the catlord]

I know about how historically, Native Americans are called red, Asians are called yellow, etc.

But

I judge people by the memories I have in my head, not history book. I used to have a Native American friend. He was really tan, but not black, and had really big ears, and a really nice guy. He looks nothing red, so Native Americans aren't red to me. I also once had a neighbor who was Italian and on a good sunny day, his skin shone red. So thus Italians are red.

I mean, you can say I'm judging a whole group of people based on one person. But it's a whole lot better than judging a whole group of people based on their historical past, right? And if I meet another Native American who looks orange, then I'll think about it. :P


P.S. Hmm...did the red thing come from the fact that they'd get covered in red sand in Arizona while they're riding on their horses? Just curious, because I can never imagine them red.

Have him stand in a windtunnel for a while, its very windy on the plains. He'll turn red.

[4letterwords]

Kyaa... what do you mean I'm off the list?

[Veserius]

You're a fucktard, fucktard. :P Its a multipurpose, equal opportunity curse insult. You should use it. Amaze your fucktard friends. :P


ahh ok so equal opprotunity insult with no true meaning, got it.

You must live in California if you honestly believe its above anywhere else, no insult intended, it is just that Cali has this superiority complex that doesn't reflect reality.


I don't personally believe we are anyway superior, but our political figures try to show us off as being so mulicultural and caring when its just a mass of PR to get votes. What I tried to say was in a state that tries to idealize how embracing they are, what is it like in a state that really seems to not care like Georgia.

[Frankey-eh]

Have him stand in a windtunnel for a while, its very windy on the plains. He'll turn red.

:rofl:

(char)
(why can't I break the limit by a period like everyone else?)

[kyaa the catlord]

ahh ok so equal opprotunity insult with no true meaning, got it.



I don't personally believe we are anyway superior, but our political figures try to show us off as being so mulicultural and caring when its just a mass of PR to get votes. What I tried to say was in a state that tries to idealize how embracing they are, what is it like in a state that really seems to not care like Georgia.

It has a true meaning, it a mix of fucker and retard. A fucktard. Its like a asshat, only more fucktardly.

[Jay]

Independent thought would be the first one. Move to Georgia.

This bit made me rofl. :D

[Roxie]

What I tried to say was in a state that tries to idealize how embracing they are, what is it like in a state that really seems to not care like Georgia.
Yeah, yeah...Georgia is not a place of beautiful race relations. Not that we're all rioting in the streets or anything, but we certainly don't hide it. But I plan to get out of this place as soon as I graduate.

It's too bad, it's beautiful, but the govn't is f'n craaaaazzy. I can't deal with it.

So, check it this

The term race distinguishes a population of humans from other populations. The most widely used human racial categories are based on visible traits (especially skin color and facial features), genes, and self-identification. Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, vary by culture and time and are often controversial due to their impact on social identity and identity politics.

Is basically what I'm saying. It's a cultural idea based on phenotypes (although biologically minimal) differences. It's not in our bones, but in our culture.

[4letterwords]

*We've got more bounce in california then all yall combined...*

I hate california. :D

[Joe]

I think you're all forgetting what's important...

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=364

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa_cell

Immortality, baby, yeah! =D I would like to thank everyone of the oppressed, but superior african race for paving the way for me not aging. Thank you, I really appreciate it, sorry 'bout the whole slave thing >.> But hey, you're free now =D

[Frankey-eh]

*We've got more bounce in california then all yall combined...*

I hate california. :D

I love california :D
This town has the best weather (when it's not being difficult) ever!

[Roxie]

I think you're all forgetting what's important...
Immortality, baby, yeah! =D I would like to thank everyone of the oppressed, but superior african race for paving the way for me not aging. Thank you, I really appreciate it, sorry 'bout the whole slave thing >.> But hey, you're free now =D
:rofl: :rofl:

There can only be one!:afro:

[Kuri]

Well not directly on topic... but why is everyone poking fun at georgia?

[Roxie]

Well not directly on topic... but why is everyone poking fun at georgia?
Cause I live here, I guess?:meh:


Although, I've never likened it as to some extremely desirable place or anything. I'd rather be in London anyday.

[Kuri]

I bet the weather is nicer in Georgia than london

[kyaa the catlord]

We should make t-shirts: Escape racism and give 'em what they want, move north.

[Jay]

Rofl. :D

Kuri: Unless London weather is your kind of weather.

/sign

[Roxie]

I bet the weather is nicer in Georgia than london
It is...but London is just so much cooler.

[Frankey-eh]

It is...but London is just so much cooler.

if you want cool weather but no fog, you should come to CALIFORNIA

[Wiss]

I think it is time to bring up Captain Kirk. Captain Kirk is the captain of the starship Enterprise (it's not just a title, he's a captain in rank as well). Their five year mission is to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life -- new civilizations and boldly go where no man has gone before. Captain Kirk seems to have his own interpertation of seeking new attractive females and having "relations". Race is not a factor in his equation, if she's attractive he'll hit it like a klingon. I feel there is a lesson to be learned from that, ask yourself how hard can it be to be a little like Captain Kirk?

So people, the next time that you meet a new and interesting female ask yourself what would Kirk do?

[gentlemanandscholar]

the lesson: Captain Picard is a superior commanding officer to that of Captain Kirk.

[Roxie]

if you want cool weather but no fog, you should come to CALIFORNIA
No, no not cool weather, but cool = awesome.

I've been to Cali, it's nice.

[Jay]

So people, the next time that you meet a new and interesting female ask yourself what would Kirk do?

Probably cream his jeans and lament that no one takes him seriously because of his role in Star Trek.

[Kuri]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OGZJ7n1iRM8&search=99%20luft%20Balloons

Everyone's a Captain Kirk

[Wiss]

Jay, please don't confuse the issue with reality.

[Jay]

I'm sorry .

[4letterwords]

This whole topic has been killed. Oh well.

[King Kong]

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/6448/poke1dw.jpg

That is all.

[NERD]

I like Georgia. Went to middle/high school there, and if I didn't end up in DC I would've gone to UGA.

It's not the best place in the world, but it's a decent place. The government may be asinine, but I don't know, the only election I voted for was the Presidential election in 2002.

I'd rather be in Georgia than London, all things considered. Being a minority in London doesn't sound that great as being a minority in Atlanta.

[smokingmonkee]

What I think.

Race does not equal species
Race is subspecies
It's not human race, it's human species
How I think this? How can there be a race further from human race?

"A subspecies is a race within a species that shows identifiable characteristics different from other subspecies. It is usually geographically separate from other subspecies.

A subspecies is identified by the third part of the scientific name"
- http://www.arthurgrosset.com/misc/subspecies.html

Aren't we all just homo sapiens with on third parti in our name?

[NERD]

I think race itself is like dog breeds- you know, your chihuahuas, bull dogs, German Shepherd, Poodle, etc... They are all in the same species, can breed with one another, but has different, distinct characteristics that sets them apart physically.

And I'm being 100% serious here.

[Frankey-eh]

I think race itself is like dog breeds- you know, your chihuahuas, bull dogs, German Shepherd, Poodle, etc... They are all in the same species, can breed with one another, but has different, distinct characteristics that sets them apart physically.

And I'm being 100% serious here.

if you're being serious, allow me to add that dog breeds are also entirely manmade...much like race :)

[bay]

Hi. This is my 1st post but I read these replies and they were all so entertaining.

Someone mentioned that the Brazilians dont treat pigmentations the same as the rest of us. gee i cant be too sure but the anth book said, if i can recall that far back, it was based on the pigmentation you appeared that day. but lo and behold somewhere along the line, very light pigments are favored.. and something about being "rich" ahh it was 2.5 yrs ago boring yet interesting class...

its the age of decline for caucasains as well the other ethnicities are growing. i think we'll see references change. i did learn that "the man entered the room" = caucasain. that perception may change. maybe the majority will say we dont care about the "african" part we're american damit or we're 1st people's damit. the "real" indian from india will say how dare you call them one of us he's from south america!

is ignorance truly bliss? if a group wants to be called asian american why call them oriental? you didnt know? okay but if you did it again, you forgot? so many things we take the time to remember like bart simpson is character from a cartoon etc.

i dont particularly favor the use of "race". just today i found out something interesting, a black woman and a latino/white man can have an offspring that looks so darn white. i told this kid i want to see pictures or proof of his parents! yea there are people who wouldnt call him white but they're in the minority! its one of the most convenient terms we have, until a more efficient term arises, embrace race!

[Frankey-eh]

is ignorance truly bliss? if a group wants to be called asian american why call them oriental? you didnt know? okay but if you did it again, you forgot? so many things we take the time to remember like bart simpson is character from a cartoon etc.

the problem there is not "I forgot/didn't know they wanted to be called that". the question you should ask is, "why are they so hung up over what other people call them?"

I mean, if Oriental = Eastern people, then aren't they indeed, eastern people? and thus, very correctly called, Orientals?

it's like... if you're name was Dan Fan and people called you Fan Dan. you can't yell at the other guy. it's your name, whether you like it or not. so why not just accept both ways?

(yes, I'm disregarding all this "deragatory connotation" stuff)

[oneangrybeaver]

Race is about as real as definitions of color are real. There's a spectrum of the wavelengths in color/light, and there's a spectrum of traits that humans have. Race is real and biological, but also vague and arbitrary. Since there's no clear line to be drawn, you could divide the whole species up into millions of 'races' who each share a common 10-times-great-grandparent or something if you wanted to.

We've only been moving around far enough to create separate baby-making clans for about 50,000 years, so all the weeding-out nature did in order to adapt us to the dark northern skies or humid rain forest or to digest a lot of dairy/meat/spoo every day are pretty superficial.

I think race itself is like dog breeds- you know, your chihuahuas, bull dogs, German Shepherd, Poodle, etc... They are all in the same species, can breed with one another, but has different, distinct characteristics that sets them apart physically.

And I'm being 100% serious here.
I'm pretty sure dog breeds or pigeon breeds or any artifical breeds, since they were in-bred consistently and on purpose, are a lot more different from each other than any two humans. Just saying.

[NERD]

Well, any artificial breeds created by men were picked out for whatever distinctive trait/traits that set them apart from the rest, and most of these breeds have a history of inbreeding, which also resulted in defects.

If you know anything about dog breeds, the sort of defects each breed faces as they progress through life is quite different- which may be results of their distinctive traits unique to the breed, or simply defective genes appearing more frequently due to the limited gene pool from the beginning.

[bay]

the problem there is not "I forgot/didn't know they wanted to be called that". the question you should ask is, "why are they so hung up over what other people call them?"

I mean, if Oriental = Eastern people, then aren't they indeed, eastern people? and thus, very correctly called, Orientals?

it's like... if you're name was Dan Fan and people called you Fan Dan. you can't yell at the other guy. it's your name, whether you like it or not. so why not just accept both ways?

(yes, I'm disregarding all this "deragatory connotation" stuff)

rika i've read your posts you seem to wish for a specific perception of reality, your perception is in the very rare minority [unless its the whole of china, japan, india view :)] if my name is bay wolf i dont want to be called wolf bay, its a preference i prefer and wish for you to respect as i would you. if i want to be called bob and not bobby then that is what you should call me, it is my choice. you dont decide the name/s of other persons, unless you have a kid of your own. but when it is an issue of truth say you call a black person that looks white, "white" then you should adjust what you call them. or if that person looks black and wishes to be called "white" then yo may have a point. otherwise yes it does matter.

people claim "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". that is so off. a wrong name can set people to do crazy things so yes words hurt therefore we should make an effort to get names/terms/ethnicities right.

[Frankey-eh]

rika i've read your posts you seem to wish for a specific perception of reality, your perception is in the very rare minority [unless its the whole of china, japan, india view :)] if my name is bay wolf i dont want to be called wolf bay, its a preference i prefer and wish for you to respect as i would you. if i want to be called bob and not bobby then that is what you should call me, it is my choice. you dont decide the name/s of other persons, unless you have a kid of your own. but when it is an issue of truth say you call a black person that looks white, "white" then you should adjust what you call them. or if that person looks black and wishes to be called "white" then yo may have a point. otherwise yes it does matter.

people claim "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". that is so off. a wrong name can set people to do crazy things so yes words hurt therefore we should make an effort to get names/terms/ethnicities right.

so are you telling me, that if I start telling everyone to call me Last name, First name, instead of how it's always been for westerners, first-last, then people will change? just for me?

[bay]

i think you're missing the fundamental point. one should call another what they choose to be called. in the west it usually sounds weirder to call last name first but you may not find many objections. as in class we are all used to it.

change is a gradual process so nothing will just happen overnight. switching order isnt as significant as misprouncing and not correcting.. but if you ask people to call you that way im sure some of them will, and if you do insist the majority of them will.

[Frankey-eh]

i think you're missing the fundamental point. one should call another what they choose to be called. in the west it usually sounds weirder to call last name first but you may not find many objections. as in class we are all used to it.

change is a gradual process so nothing will just happen overnight. switching order isnt as significant as misprouncing and not correcting.. but if you ask people to call you that way im sure some of them will, and if you do insist the majority of them will.

I forgot where I was going with this...

I mean, I still do have a pretty big deal with first-last/last-first, but... that has nothing to do with race.

let's just get back to the original topic....

[bay]

gee you're so forgetful its only been a couple hours. i mean im so darn tired yet i recall? u could just cheat and scroll... *sigh*

i think maybe it was along the lines of words dont hurt? remember the who cares if its oriential it means eastern anyway? call people what they want to be called is all you need to remember.

[Frankey-eh]

gee you're so forgetful its only been a couple hours. i mean im so darn tired yet i recall? u could just cheat and scroll... *sigh*

i think maybe it was along the lines of words dont hurt? remember the who cares if its oriential it means eastern anyway? call people what they want to be called is all you need to remember.

lol :rofl:
(sorry. of course I wasn't laughing at you. I'm laughing at what you would have written had I posted what I originally wrote ;)

here's a lesson in Japanese culture, dear.
Japanese people are NEVER direct when they can be.

[koku]

Ok, so I read the whole thread.



I'm just going to keep it short.

Ethnicity matters WAY more than race. I don't think I need to give examples where ethnicity beats out race in determining one's behavior.

Second. If everyone agrees that the LESS people CARE about race, the better things get, why is interacial marriage/relationships a problem, or a complication, or anything BUT a step towards the right direction. Or if anything, the right message?


I think everyone just needs to make some diverse friends and make a few jokes. Some people are just too uptight. With all the constant stereotype/race jokes me and my buddies trade, it just subtly says how stupid people are for believing them in the first place. Everyone in here but me is racist and I'll report you all to the NAACP (especially Rika). Goodnight, I think.

[Kuri]

You know after my post on race as a cultural definition, and reading all the biological points

Doesn't anybody think it's just plain stupid or irrelevant?

[ReverendC]

You know after my post on race as a cultural definition, and reading all the biological points

Doesn't anybody think it's just plain stupid or irrelevant?

Nope.

*sigh*

This little moth hates the fire but is drawn irresistibly towards it. So into another race discussion.

People categorize EVERYTHING, themselves, others, plants, dirt, just EVERYTHING. Race is a convenient way to do that.

Race is politically charged in the States because it is tied inextricably to racism. If you want to convey the notion of race without traversing the political minefield, use tribe. It's essentially the same and a fairly neutral term. It contains a biological and a social component. Common ancestry, common culture. That's it.

Racism. I don't care if people call me Indian. I don't care if they call me Native American. I don't care if they call me American Indian. Whatever best conveys what they want to say.

If what they want to say is hateful to others, I get cross. If others purposely miscontrue what is said in order to take offense, I get annoyed.

People are people (said with a mix of resignation and hope).

[Klilynkun]

I'm back... and I seriously can't believe this is still going on

[bay]

lol :rofl:
(sorry. of course I wasn't laughing at you. I'm laughing at what you would have written had I posted what I originally wrote ;)

here's a lesson in Japanese culture, dear.
Japanese people are NEVER direct when they can be.


i thought japanese are most direct and serious people that ever lived? its quite interesting living isolated to themselves etc as the founder of this site has brought to our attention.

if you meant something else please do let me know. debates arent cool if we cant get anything from it.

[Frankey-eh]

i thought japanese are most direct and serious people that ever lived? its quite interesting living isolated to themselves etc as the founder of this site has brought to our attention.

if you meant something else please do let me know. debates arent cool if we cant get anything from it.

Klilynkun, I agree. -_-

Bay. let me put it VERY directly for you then.
"I forgot" = a quick and easy way to end the conversation without YOU haven't to feel like backing out, because I'm willing to bend my back to stop this conversation. If I keep going at that direction, it's going to get very off-topic and distract the thread. And I'm certainly NOT looking to debate anything. I've already done proven my point in this thread, if you haven't noticed. Besides, yesterday was about the only time I could be so free that I could hang around the board all day. I still have a life to live, homework to complete, and you have NO idea the amount of tests I have to take next week. I have a busy life. So I'm sorry, but I'm just not interested in pursuing this topic anymore. Don't take it personally. And if you want to talk about Japan, this CERTAINLY is not the place. Head over to "All About Japan" and I'm sure there'll be wonderful people there who will help you. And I assure you, Japan is a land of indirectness. You're lucky there are people willing to be direct to you here, and tell you the rules straight out, because no one in Japan will bother to do so. :)

[Blanche]

i agree with jethro, race is pretty much a subspecies. for example the barn swallow, if you look at the barn swallow it has many different subspecies based on its geographic location. the european and american barnswallows have little differences, such as the amount of red coloring on their throats. other parts of their bodies are colored a bit differently, but they're pretty much the same bird based on their habits as we are all humans.

oh and i thought this was interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicanthal_fold

i've never seen a white person have the epicanthic eye fold, but supposedly people from Lapland known as the Sami have it.

[ShadowDeth]

I haven't blown hot air in this thread for a while, so I figured i'd do it now.

Blah blah blah big words blah blah.

Rika - The common thread among your posts is that you seem to have a child-like, innocent view of races and I really have no issue with that. (It's actually quite nice)

However, you have to realize very few people hold your opinion. So I think what bay wrote is worth placing emphasis on

"call people what they want to be called is all you need to remember."

[bay]

I haven't blown hot air in this thread for a while, so I figured i'd do it now.

Blah blah blah big words blah blah.

Rika - The common thread among your posts is that you seem to have a child-like, innocent view of races and I really have no issue with that. (It's actually quite nice)

However, you have to realize very few people hold your opinion. So I think what bay wrote is worth placing emphasis on

"call people what they want to be called is all you need to remember."

thankyou. rika seems to talk around that matter.. despite the circumstances of your life, you really shouldnt bring things up if you cant discuss it..


so is it a cultural thing ? is this why some cultures not care what others call themselves and why we have problems with race? would making them confirm to generally beneficial social rules be a detriment to their rights? hmm

[Jay]

Wow, this thread is still alive?

[smokingmonkee]

Wow, this thread is still alive?

I believe the term is threadomancy

[Jay]

Niiiiiiiiiiice.

[bay]

Wow, this thread is still alive?

i dont understand why you say this in a thread. if its closed then its not open to leave a message otherwise, people can continue to debate if they feel there is something they want to discuss. is that not how it works?

[Frankey-eh]

i dont understand why you say this in a thread. if its closed then its not open to leave a message otherwise, people can continue to debate if they feel there is something they want to discuss. is that not how it works?

oh no, nothing's wrong.

it's just that you're still insisting on beating the dead horse...or I think that's how the phrase went...

that's what's amazing.

[smokingmonkee]

oh no, nothing's wrong.

it's just that you're still insisting on beating the dead horse...or I think that's how the phrase went...

that's what's amazing.

meh... this is an argument where most people's opinions are set in stone so I personally don't see much point in wailing on that poor equine.

[Klilynkun]

meh... this is an argument where most people's opinions are set in stone so I personally don't see much point in wailing on that poor equine.


WAAAIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL