sympathy for the devil

[Mastiker]

yesterday (today being monday, and yesterday therefore being sunday) a kid from my school died.

a little info on the kid: he pissed off a lot of teachers, and by pissing off teachers he wasted lots of time in class. in wasting time in class, he pissed off a lot of students that wanted to learn. however, considering the vast majority of students in my school who couldn't give two rat's asses whether or not they passed academics (i go to a vocational school, where it's okay if you can't write english well, because you have a trade certificate to fall back on), he was still very well liked. but not by me.

the kid was an all-around douche bag, did whatever the hell he wanted nevermind the consequences. yet not once today did i think "he deserved what he got".

however, i did hear it. more than once. by more than once group of people.

that pisses me off, and not because someone would disrespect the dead, but simply because you don't want to wish death on anyone.

it was an ATV accident, and he came across the hill. as he comes across the hill, he hit some sort of wire that he didn't see. it cut into his chest, and hit his heart. he died before he got into the hospital.

and people thought that he "deserved what he got". this includes administration.

i would never want anyone to have to go through that, no matter how much i didn't like them.

[Kuri]

Being a douche bag doesn't deserve death..

[Jon885]

I looked at your profile and it looks like you're pretty young and I'm guessing the kid from your school was around the same age. Usually people mature when they get older so people shoudln't be judging him entirely on his actions at his age. I was surprised to see that the administration saying he deserved what he got. That's pretty disgusting.

[General_Admission]

That sucks. Some girl who went to my school last year died as well. Pitty really.

[FireWolf238]

it's called hate....

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

two years ago, an openly admitted asshole when snowmobiling at night on property where the owner had put up "danger" and "no trespassing" signs. The owner was fed up with drunken midnight snowmobiling, and had stung up wire.
So here's this guy, it's dark, he's going 140ish kph in the woods, and gets decapitated by the wire.
I would've liked to nominate him for a Darwin Award, since he ignored all the signs (there was one about fifty feet from where the accident had happened that said something like, "If you want to live, you'll turn around") and the owner himself. Sad? a little. It's a waste to die by doing something stupid.
But, alas, it's a "school tradgedy," and there are still memorials and shit every winter, and if you're in the same class as he was, you'd better go, or his friends will find you and quite possibly beat the shit out of you. Even if you hated this guy's guts. *shakes head* I hope that doesn't happen in the above case.

[Idlethought]

And here I thought this was about that Cowboy Bebop episode...

As far as I'm concerned an asshole is an asshole whether dead or alive. Just cause they died doesnt mean you should have to automatically pay them respect.

[Mastiker]

And here I thought this was about that Cowboy Bebop episode...

As far as I'm concerned an asshole is an asshole whether dead or alive. Just cause they died doesnt mean you should have to automatically pay them respect.

I was thinking the Cowboy Bebop episode when I put the title ^.^

And i'm not paying him respect by being all "ooo this guy was holy" because I didn't think he was. However, he doesn't deserve people talking shit about him, dead or alive.

I looked at your profile and it looks like you're pretty young and I'm guessing the kid from your school was around the same age. Usually people mature when they get older so people shoudln't be judging him entirely on his actions at his age. I was surprised to see that the administration saying he deserved what he got. That's pretty disgusting.

I'm also the youngest kid of my class, and he was one of the oldest. He was seventeen, almost eighteen. But yeah, the kid was immature, as I implied. And of course people shouldn't judge his actions. But this is high school. And one that's filled of emo kids that hate everyone. I dunno, I'm kind of fed up with the pricks in my classes because they think they're better than everyone else.

And I was pissed when I heard a faculty member talk about a student like that. Of course, me being one of the "rebels" if I said anything nothing would have happened, but fuck that's just cruel.

[ReverendC]

Though I am a man of the cloth, I have a pragmatic, almost heretical view of death. I don't believe that life has intrinsic value. I feel that the value of a life is measured by those who value it.

I should probably explain that.

Given eternal life (which I take on faith), I see death as an absence. When you are absent, some people will be pained by it, and others won't. I think it's sad that his life and his death had no more impact on those around him, but I can't bring myself to condemn those who only feel what is natural in their circumstance.

That said, the respect we pay the dead is really respect that we are paying to the living, those around to hear it. To voice those feelings of indifference to the dead is to express disrespect to the living. It is to deride what they may have cherished, and is tantamount to an insult. It's important to ask yourself if this is how you would have your loved ones treated in their time of suffering.

[Mastiker]

Though I am a man of the cloth, I have a pragmatic, almost heretical view of death. I don't believe that life has intrinsic value. I feel that the value of a life is measured by those who value it.

I should probably explain that.

Given eternal life (which I take on faith), I see death as an absence. When you are absent, some people will be pained by it, and others won't. I think it's sad that his life and his death had no more impact on those around him, but I can't bring myself to condemn those who only feel what is natural in their circumstance.

That said, the respect we pay the dead is really respect that we are paying to the living, those around to hear it. To voice those feelings of indifference to the dead is to express disrespect to the living. It is to deride what they may have cherished, and is tantamount to an insult. It's important to ask yourself if this is how you would have your loved ones treated in their time of suffering.

I get that. I mean, I don't believe in it, but when someone dies it leaves a hole in their place. My grandfather died recently, but we've known he was going to go for a while. Hell, he even outlived what he was expected. That was a lot easier to take, because we expected it. But this kid died suddenly, and violently.

However, what I don't get is why kid's who barely even knew the kid are as upset about it as they are. I'm upset, not with the death, but with the reaction the death incurred. In the newspaper, they interviewed someone who knew him, but only barely. "I saw the kid in the hallways. He was kind of funny. I don't really know him that well. It hit me hard to hear of his death." I mean, sheesh, I know the person that said this. But I also know of friends of the dead student who could have actually said something of grevieng, not something generic and stale. The kids in my school are now making this a huge ordeal because the kid went to our school, so somehow that makes us popular because we've seen the kids in the hallway. With 1000+ students in our school, most of them were bound to see him, but that doesn't make all 1000 of us special.

[ReverendC]

I get that. I mean, I don't believe in it, but when someone dies it leaves a hole in their place. My grandfather died recently, but we've known he was going to go for a while. Hell, he even outlived what he was expected. That was a lot easier to take, because we expected it. But this kid died suddenly, and violently.

However, what I don't get is why kid's who barely even knew the kid are as upset about it as they are. I'm upset, not with the death, but with the reaction the death incurred. In the newspaper, they interviewed someone who knew him, but only barely. "I saw the kid in the hallways. He was kind of funny. I don't really know him that well. It hit me hard to hear of his death." I mean, sheesh, I know the person that said this. But I also know of friends of the dead student who could have actually said something of grevieng, not something generic and stale. The kids in my school are now making this a huge ordeal because the kid went to our school, so somehow that makes us popular because we've seen the kids in the hallway. With 1000+ students in our school, most of them were bound to see him, but that doesn't make all 1000 of us special.

You see this at some funerals and sometimes in church, too. I call it "Who's the Holiest?". I can't discount the notion that some of that is heartfelt, as my sister will cry if she sees a dead butterfly (hyperbole but not by much), but I think the greater part of it is self-serving. It seems dishonest to me, but I think they're being more dishonest with themselves. When I was younger it put me off a little, kinda struck me as hypocrisy, but now I just figure that people deal with death (whether as an abstract or on a personal level) in different ways. If it's comforting for them to play "Who's the Holiest?", I say "Do what you have to do." and keep my mouth shut about it.

The idea of death can make some people really uncomfortable. It doesn't even need to be a loved one. Sometimes they see it like "OHmyG*d, he went to our school and now he's dead. I go to our school! I could be next!" Some people when faced with the reality of death go absolutely bonkers. It passes.

[TygressVirgo]

That is so horrible that they could say that about a student, even if he was a little prick.

[gyoza]

I agree... especially with young students, if someone was a prick I'd be really pissed with them. But I'd hope that they'd change for the better, rather than hope they died.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

Reminds me of something I saw from Dead Like Me.

"When you are dead...you can be the biggest turd in the toilet and come out smelling like roses."

[TygressVirgo]

Reminds me of something I saw from Dead Like Me.

"When you are dead...you can be the biggest turd in the toilet and come out smelling like roses."

I prolly shuldn't be laughing, but I am >.<

[Idlethought]

I don't think that they're happy he's dead as much as they're happy that hes not around bothering everyone anymore

[CoastalJen]

Saying he desereved what he got is just plain wrong. However, I've seen it happen a lot too that after someone who's an ass dies people start singing their praises about what a great person they are. WTF? I doubt that if a person wasn't into hugging kittens and taking care in life, their certainly don't want to be remembered for it in death.

Slightly off topic, but my two cents

[Decade]

I kinda had something similar happen 2 years back.

There was this one "bully" back when I first moved to my new town in 6th grade. He was a racist motherfucker and throughout that entire year, he tried to make my and other kids lives a living hell. I got lucky cause he stopped being as much of a douchebag after 6th grade, but for others he was an asshole throughout middleschool. As per the typical "I'm no pussy with a bully" case, we fought a few times, and he won a couple and I got a few (well, more than he got. The first one is when he jumped me coming outta the locker room, but that was a sucker punch. I took him out afterwards with him knowing I was there to knock him the fuck out, bigger victory).

Anyway, he ended up going to "alternative" high school cause he was a fucking dumbass, all he cared about was being a dick to anyone he didnt care about and nothing about school, so I didnt have to deal with him anymore. I saw him once senior year, but by then the kid wouldnt say anything to my face, or I'd break his again (I still remember walking by him, him sitting down and whispering something to the kid next to him when he saw me, but when I looked at him he looked down really quick and started shaking his head).

Then 2 years ago I heard from my friend that the kid got killed by a drunk driver, and I didnt know what to think.

I didnt want him to die, hell, like you said nobody should wish death on to others, but I didnt feel sorry for him either. Everyone else knew he was a bastard, but regardless, they all started feeling sorry for him.

This pissed me off more than anything else and I started trashing them the second they'd say it.

"WHY? Why feel sorry for HIM? He was a bastard, I'm not saying be happy he's dead, but you shouldn't feel sorry for him either, he wasn't a good person and it's not as if you really cared about him when he was around, why care that he's not now?"

I know you shouldnt wish death upon people you dont like, but you shouldnt have to feel "bad" for them when it happens either. I worked out my feelings on the matter and realized I was really pissed because he'd never actually get to see me succeed in work and life while he pissed away his pumping my gas. Regardless, I still feel a little angry when I hear someone feel sorry for him.

What I'm saying is, for someone like this it's ok to not feel bad for the kid for being gone, it's not ok to say "I'm/We're better off now."

You were gonna be better off by just not being around the kid, not if the kid were dead.

As far as I'm concerned an asshole is an asshole whether dead or alive. Just cause they died doesnt mean you should have to automatically pay them respect.
Amen

And i'm not paying him respect by being all "ooo this guy was holy" because I didn't think he was. However, he doesn't deserve people talking shit about him, dead or alive.

No, if the kid was a douchebag when he was alive, he deserved people talking trash about him because he did deserve it. Now that he's dead, it's up to you, but it wont matter much if you do. Seriously, he cant bother you anymore.

But yea, I will agree, the administration saying that is pretty fucked up. But, I agree with idlethought again when he says

I don't think that they're happy he's dead as much as they're happy that hes not around bothering everyone anymore

Regardless, still bad to say on behalf of a "respectable" administration.

[Psychochink]

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste. You do know where the title of that Cowboy Bebop episode comes from, right?

Aspects of people's lives will always be overexaggerated after they die, good or bad. Some get the "He was an evil bastard and the world is a better place" treatment, some get the "He was a wonderful, kind person who made everything sunshine and lollipops" treatment. Very few people are remembered who who they actually were, except by perhaps a few people closest to them, and even then their perceptions tend to change.

It all depends on how you look at it - but at the end of the day, people like to make things nice and simple, black and white. People aren't like that, and the world isn't like that. A million shades of grey.

Take good ol' Osama bin Laden. To most westerners he's nothing more than evil incarnate. [Disclaimer for the feeble-minded: I do not endorse the man's ideology or tactics, and am opposed to his stated objectives.] However, at the end of the day, he's simply somebody who has the courage of his convictions. Misguided in his methodologies, yes, but he's certainly no sadistic thrill-killer.

For example, he spent vast amounts of his own money building vital infrastructure in a few middle-eastern countries. He also (little-known fact) called for jihad against Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait back in 1990, and petitioned the Saudi government to send jihadists to help liberate Kuwait. Whether you agree with his position or not (I don't think many agree with his tactics) he's dedicated his life to the service of the muslim nations. But that's a debate I don't want to get into (as it's simply a sidenote to illustrate a point).

That's too complex for most people's little minds to handle, so they pigeonhole him into their black/white mentality. Same thing with our attitudes to the dead.

[PopCulturePooka]

While I was in high school an older brother of one of the biggest shitheads guys (Chris) in my grade went with his mates and broke into some old guys house late at night.

Him and his mates were all fuckwit screw up crims. Shitheads. So was his younger brother for that matter. All disruptive, violent, criminal bullies.

They threatened him with tree branches, tried to attack the old guy while his wife slept in bed. For their their trouble the old guy pulled out a rifle and shot at them. He wounded one of the guys and killed Chris.

Cause a lot of media attention ehre about the rights to sue lethal force in your home. Turns out the guys went to the wrong house, they were meant to go to another house over a drug issue.

Anyway, the old guy got off. Good.

And all these 'well meaning' fucking kids in my school tried to make an issue about it. Classroom 'protests', walk out, all this teeth gnashing and crying over poor dead criminal kid. Tried to have a school memorial for him. For a fucking violent criminal that tried to kill an old man. Bring flowers to school and in front of the old guys house etc.

So I dropped the bomb. One day while arguing with some of these kids, who were friends of Chris, I said 'His brother deserved to die, so did the other two'.

I got my arse kicked for my comments, and some girls I knew stopped talking to me. Fuck it.

The fucker deserved to die. While he lived he was a complete waste of oxygen. So was Chris. So were his friends. He died. So what?

All of the sudden everyone feels bad for him, how horrible this kid died?

Boo hoo.

To this day I never changed my mind. The fucker deserved to die that night. He got what was coming. The old guy protected himself and his wife from violent thugs.

BTW, Chris, as prediceted, turned out to be yet another violent criminal thug.

[Mastiker]

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste. You do know where the title of that Cowboy Bebop episode comes from, right?

of course i do ^.^ that's the episode where the kid from earth has everlasting youth. i remember it. i just chose the title becuase of the old man telling spike not to trust the appearance of the man. i dunno, it has symbolism in my mind.


Aspects of people's lives will always be overexaggerated after they die, good or bad. Some get the "He was an evil bastard and the world is a better place" treatment, some get the "He was a wonderful, kind person who made everything sunshine and lollipops" treatment. Very few people are remembered who who they actually were, except by perhaps a few people closest to them, and even then their perceptions tend to change.

It all depends on how you look at it - but at the end of the day, people like to make things nice and simple, black and white. People aren't like that, and the world isn't like that. A million shades of grey.


That's what pisses me off. I know the guy wasn't a saint, but I also know he wasn't the worlds biggest douchebag. He was just a douchebag that I didn't particularly like. Hell, not too many people like me. It just makes me wonder, if I was the one dead, and he was the one still alive, would he be saying the same things I've heard people said, negative or positive? Most likely.

I just hate fake people.

[Mastiker]

While I was in high school an older brother of one of the biggest shitheads guys (Chris) in my grade went with his mates and broke into some old guys house late at night.

Him and his mates were all fuckwit screw up crims. Shitheads. So was his younger brother for that matter. All disruptive, violent, criminal bullies.

They threatened him with tree branches, tried to attack the old guy while his wife slept in bed. For their their trouble the old guy pulled out a rifle and shot at them. He wounded one of the guys and killed Chris.

Cause a lot of media attention ehre about the rights to sue lethal force in your home. Turns out the guys went to the wrong house, they were meant to go to another house over a drug issue.

Anyway, the old guy got off. Good.

And all these 'well meaning' fucking kids in my school tried to make an issue about it. Classroom 'protests', walk out, all this teeth gnashing and crying over poor dead criminal kid. Tried to have a school memorial for him. For a fucking violent criminal that tried to kill an old man. Bring flowers to school and in front of the old guys house etc.

So I dropped the bomb. One day while arguing with some of these kids, who were friends of Chris, I said 'His brother deserved to die, so did the other two'.

I got my arse kicked for my comments, and some girls I knew stopped talking to me. Fuck it.

The fucker deserved to die. While he lived he was a complete waste of oxygen. So was Chris. So were his friends. He died. So what?

All of the sudden everyone feels bad for him, how horrible this kid died?

Boo hoo.

To this day I never changed my mind. The fucker deserved to die that night. He got what was coming. The old guy protected himself and his wife from violent thugs.

BTW, Chris, as prediceted, turned out to be yet another violent criminal thug.

yeah, that fucker deserved it. :bored:

[PopCulturePooka]

of course i do ^.^ that's the episode where the kid from earth has everlasting youth. i remember it. i just chose the title becuase of the old man telling spike not to trust the appearance of the man. i dunno, it has symbolism in my mind.

Wrong Mr Anime Geek.:bang:

Its from a Rolling Stones song.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling-stones/117881.html

[Decade]

Dont they get most cowboy bebop episode names from classic rock music?

[Mastiker]

Wrong Mr Anime Geek.:bang:

Its from a Rolling Stones song.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling-stones/117881.html

har! i know that! i misread the question ^.^

yeah, it is a rolling stones song. originally though, it was supposed to be a... hm... can't remember who... Bob Dylan? I think so. Then it turned into a jazz song.


edit: i love how i turned this into an anime freak thread X.X... shall we get back on topic about dead pricks?


Dont they get most cowboy bebop episode names from classic rock music?

Most of them I believe are from jazz songs, considering the majority of the episodes the background music is jazz. It's actually supposed to be a subtle theme, that the music represents the generation. The songs I know you're referring to, "Toys in the Attic" and "Bohemian Rhapsody" are most definitely jazz songs. It's just another nerd fact I get from being me ^.^

[Kash]

People like to say "He got what he deserved" because they either see so little of kharma actually happening or they like to flatter themselves with vane thoughts that they too will get a hero's death. Too bad so few people actually deserve a hero's death.

Pragmatically speaking, almost noone deserves death. Sure a few murders and rapists don't fit the bill, but by far and large most don't deserve it. But then, neither do most people earn continued existance either.

[Mastiker]

But then, neither do most people earn continued existance either.

that reminded me of Saw X.X creepah

i guess yeah, that is why a lot of students would say that, but what about the administrator that said it? i mean, not only the administrator, but the administrator that they were talking to? don't you think they'd be too old for romantic fantasized ideals?