PDA

View Full Version : Zero Tolerance


ruaidhri
08-12-2005, 04:27 AM
Well, I am going to start a thread on this topic again. I believe it's important we stop this stupid and unfair way of dealing with problems. What do you think?

Criminalizing Kids II
Misdemeanor Mistakes and Felony Forgetfulness

It was a cool, clear October day in Washington, D.C., when the closing bell rang and twelve-year-old Ansche Hedgepeth ran out the door of Alice Deal Junior High School. She stopped at a fast-food restaurant for an order of hot French fries and then headed for home. Ansche took the escalator down into the Tenleytown/American University Metrorail station to catch her train. In the station, she ate a single French fry. Moments later, the junior high student was in handcuffs and headed for jail.

Ansche had no idea that the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) had picked that Monday to kick-off a week of “zero tolerance” enforcement of “quality of life offenses.” They had ordered undercover officers to automatically punish even minor infractions.

D.C. Code § 35-251(b) makes it a violation to “consume food or drink” in a Metrorail facility. For a first offense, adults could be fined from $10 to $50. Only for a second offense can an adult be arrested. Minors, however, cannot be fined. Officers can either warn them, or arrest them, but the zero tolerance policy made arrest the only option.

An undercover officer saw Ansche eat the one fry and quickly placed her under arrest. The twelve-year-old girl was searched and her jacket, backpack, and shoelaces were confiscated. Her hands were cuffed behind her back and she was put into a paddy wagon and driven to the Juvenile Processing Center. Three hours after the arrest, Ansche was finally released into the custody of her mother.

In a decision reluctantly upholding Ansche’s arrest, the judge noted that she was totally compliant, never resisting, only crying throughout the process. She had never eaten in a Metrorail station before, nor had she ever been warned not to eat there. The judge mocked the harsh, zero tolerance enforcement of the “serious offense of eating a French fry on a subway platform.”

The district judge lamented the “humiliating and demeaning impact of the arrest” and suggested that the WMATA “re-think any other ‘foolish’ operating procedures before subjecting – or continuing to subject – unwary users of mass transportation to the indignity and horror suffered by [Ansche].” The Supreme Court, in a decision finding no constitutional problem with a similar incident, cited news reports of Ansche’s treatment as an example of a “comparably foolish, warrantless misdemeanor arrest” (Atwater v. City of Lago Vista).

In the face of public criticism, the WMATA rescinded their “zero tolerance” policy that required arresting minor children for minor infractions. Many overzealous zero tolerance policies remain, however, and most continue to target children. An American Bar Association (ABA) report cited some horrific examples:

A 12-year-old with hyperactivity disorder told students ahead of him in the lunch line to leave some potatoes, or “I’m going to get you.” The principal called the police and the Louisiana boy was arrested for making a terrorist threat. He spent two weeks in jail awaiting a hearing.
In Arlington, Virginia, two 10-year-old boys put soapy water in their teacher’s drink. The teacher insisted that the young boys be charged with felonies, although their case was later dismissed.
An 11-year-old girl was arrested after asking her teacher for permission to use a smooth-edged steak knife that she had brought from home to cut a piece of chicken that she was eating for lunch.
A disabled 14-year-old was charged as an adult with strong-armed robbery and jailed for six weeks. The boy, who had no criminal record, was accused of taking $2 from a classmate. After 60 Minutes II showed an interest in the case, all charges were dropped.
Where did this rush to lock up kids come from? The ABA traced the origin of the modern “zero tolerance” for children movement to the fear of school shootings that developed during the 1990s. The Clinton Administration trumpeted legislation that required “‘zero tolerance’ for guns in schools,” but even this well-intentioned move has become a symbol of overcriminalizing kids.

Eight-year-old Hamadi Alston found an L-shaped piece of paper in a school book. While playing “cops and robbers” with his friends during recess, Hamadi used the paper as a pretend gun, exclaiming “Pow, pow!” At the conclusion of recess, Hamadi was taken to the school office and interrogated to tears. Hamadi was arrested by the Irvington, New Jersey, Police Department for “threatening to kill other students” with his paper pistol. He spent almost five hours in police custody and was required to make two court appearances before charges were finally dropped.

Numerous students have been punished, some suspended or even expelled, for bringing toy guns (plastic, rather than paper) to school. Nine-year-old Austin Crittenden was suspended for “possession of a weapon – firearm replica,” when he brought a tiny plastic G.I. Joe handgun to his elementary school. The third grader’s principal “had to tape the gun to a piece of paper to keep from losing it,” Austin’s grandmother reported.

In Georgia, a five-year-old kindergarten student was suspended on the second day of school for violating White Bluff Elementary’s zero tolerance policy on “violent toys.” Principal Jane Ford-Brocato claimed that the kindergartener’s quarter-sized plastic gun would have “a negative impact” that justified zero tolerance. Defending the suspension, she said “we need to apply consequences as appropriate, with the understanding we want to guide the children into making good choices.” After a local television station called the school, however, the youngster’s suspension was immediately lifted.

Similar cases have sparked debate over zero tolerance policies across the country. In Spokane, Washington, an eight-year-old was suspended for having two tiny plastic G.I. Joe guns at school. At Oak Mountain Middle School in Alabama, two boys were suspended for playing with toy guns that one had brought in for a school-sanctioned project.

Much worse than suspensions or expulsions, some students have faced criminal charges for toy guns. One nine-year-old student was arrested for aggravated assault and disrupting a school function for playing with his toy gun as he left school at the end of the day. A ten-year-old student in Alabaster, Alabama, was likewise arrested for supposedly threatening behavior with a toy gun. Reasonable people might disagree about whether a student should be suspended for possessing a squirt gun on school property. But when students are arrested for such alleged crimes, the expansion of the boundaries of criminal law undermines the very concept of justice.

In January, Adam Liston made a mistake. The 18-year-old Davis High School senior dropped off a few friends at school on his way to the gun range with a new shotgun in his gun rack. Apparently someone reported seeing the gun, and the next day at school the vice principal asked to search Adam’s Ford F-250 truck. Adam readily agreed.

Six police cars arrived and officers swarmed Adam’s truck. As they searched, he realized he had made a major error. He forgot to take the shotgun, unloaded and still in its original box, out of his truck after target shooting the day before. Adam broke down in tears as officers pulled the gun from his truck and placed him under arrest. He was handcuffed and taken to the Yolo County Jail.

Adam was charged with two felony violations of California Penal Code § 626.9, possessing a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. He was released on $25,000 bail, and on February 19, the school board voted 3-1 to expel Adam from Davis High.

The Sacramento Bee pointed out that Adam “had been a model citizen since the first grade.” He “had never been a discipline problem in school and … never had a run-in with the law.” Adam maintained good grades and already had college plans. His mother was president of the PTA.

One of Adam’s former teachers called him a “very thoughtful, very respectful, very charming and fine young man.” When his mother resigned her PTA position in response to her son’s “banishment,” several other parents resigned with her to protest Adam’s treatment. The Davis High School Student Council delivered a letter from Davis students to the Davis superintendent, stating the obvious: “Adam Liston is not a threat to this school district.”

A collection of letters to the editor of the Sacramento newspaper expressed the community’s outrage. The authorities acted without “common sense,” several writers opined. Adam’s act was “unintentional” and “an honest mistake.” This kind of zero tolerance enforcement perpetuates a “paranoid atmosphere” and is “morally bankrupt” and “a real travesty of justice.”

Another letter writer rhetorically asks, “Where is the criminal intent in this case?” Apparently, most Americans inherently understand the foundational concept of criminal law: a wrongful act (actus reus) is a crime only if done with wrongful intent (mens rea). Causing a traffic accident is entirely different from intentionally ramming someone with your car. Forgetting to remove an unloaded shotgun from your truck before driving to school is not the same as carrying a concealed loaded pistol to class.

Somehow, a number of school administrators, police, prosecutors, and lawmakers have cast aside this critical distinction in favor of mechanistic “zero tolerance.” While relieving decision makers from the burden of making decisions, zero tolerance undermines the very notion of justice, particularly when aimed at youth. School kids “care most about fairness,” said one attorney quoted in the ABA report. “When they see two students whose ‘offenses’ are vastly different being treated exactly the same, that sense of fairness is obliterated and replaced with fear and alienation.”

Civil society flourishes where people can rely on law to approximate justice as best it can. Law, at its best, provides protection and predictability, essential qualities for progress and ordered liberty. When the objective of law strays from justice, both concepts are tarnished. Law, no longer the protector, becomes the oppressor. Justice is twisted into a rationalization or dismissed as a phantasm.

The recent expansion of criminal law, manifest in part by zero tolerance policies, mocks the legacy of Anglo-American jurisprudence. As Roscoe Pound, a preeminent legal scholar of the early 20th Century, explained, “criminal law is based upon a theory of punishing the vicious will. It postulates a free agent confronted with a choice between doing right and doing wrong and choosing freely to do wrong.” When we punish innocents for their mistakes, we turn lady justice into a child swinging for a piñata, blindly waiving her razor-sharp sword amongst the crowd.

Kaji
08-12-2005, 05:52 AM
I have to agree here. The little brother of a friend of mine a few years back got expelled from 7th grade for writing a story in his notebook about mutant frogs coming down and frying people, some of whom just happened to be teachers in the school. Justification was based on the fact that he was threatening teachers based on what he wrote in the book.

Marblehead
08-12-2005, 05:55 AM
This really is sad. I remember when I was a freshman in Catholic school and I wrote a story on how to kill a priest. I got a hearty B+ for it. :D
Sadly, times change. :(

X the Eliminator
08-12-2005, 06:06 AM
The first case you cited is getting alot of attention since the appellate judge in that case was US Supreme Court nominee John Roberts.

I like zero tolerance provisions for really serious crimes (ie mandatory minimums for people who commit gun crimes). But 99% of the time its used on penny ante crap like you referenced earlier and the punishments really don't fit the crime at all.

h2orowe
08-12-2005, 06:18 AM
Jesus, that is patetic. How are us Americans supposed to stay fat, if we can't eat on the metro? Answer me!

Seriously that is pathetic. Let's let that criminal who raped a family of four and skinned their dog.... forcing their son to eat it, go free, because this kid has a french fry.
"Officer down, repeat officer down! Back-up needed"
""One second Jude, this child has a fry....""

"YOU LITTLE MAGGOT YOU THINK YOU CAN EAT A FRY!?"
""*tears* I didn't know, I swear!""
*The kid gets the shit beaten out of her*
"Now you know.... NOW YOU KNOW! YOU PIECE OF SHIT!"

Things are gonna be turning into like 1984 soon.
Freedom is slavery
War is peace
Ignorance is strength!
I probably messed that up!)

Mr.Babalo
08-12-2005, 06:41 AM
Hahahaha US is jokular, here in canada it's all laid back. For example: My friend has this paintball gun that the army uses for training (it really looks like an m16). He shows it off in public places all the time, except all he has to do is put a lil piece of orange tape around the tip to show its just a paintball. People admire it, not phone poe-poes.


Once i threatened my teacher with a butterfly knife after she told me to do something. She freaks out, but then i flipped the blade out, revealing it was really a comb.



n we laughed n laughed.


and i repeated this to all my teachers n some of my friends.


that's canada.

h2orowe
08-12-2005, 06:46 AM
Canada.... You lucky bastards.

Psychochink
08-12-2005, 07:18 AM
"Land of the free"...jesus. Y'all are becoming a perfect Orwellian society.

Panhandle Martinez
08-12-2005, 07:19 AM
I believe the police officer did the right thing.

Granted, this may have not been what was on his mind, but arresting a 12-year old for eating a french fry was a brilliant way to bring the public attention to a law like that one is/was. If nothing else, it illustrates the catastrophic stupidity of "zero tolerance".

Zero tolerance is attractive to the guys who sit in a room writing bills because it equates to 'zero responsibility' and 'zero intelligence'. Most of our lawmakers today seem to fit those two bills pretty well.

Kudos to this guy for taking the written law to the extreme and making an example out of it. Being arrested for a few hours couldn't have been too traumatic on the girl. It may have saved the rest of us (who eat french fries, anyway.)

h2orowe
08-12-2005, 07:22 AM
"Land of the free"...jesus. Y'all are becoming a perfect Orwellian society.
I said that two!
I said its like 1984
then quoted the party's slogan!
Great minds think alike my friend,
Great minds think alike.

kawaii
08-12-2005, 07:35 AM
oh my god, this just sucks. lucky me, im FAR away from America, but really,arresting kids for playing with toy guns? girls for eating on the subway? it just seems to me that the people who write the laws there forgot what the law is there for. sad.

Marblehead
08-12-2005, 07:40 AM
"Land of the free"...jesus. Y'all are becoming a perfect Orwellian society.

I've been to Australia. I love Australia, but don't try and tell me you guys are all perfect. I've seen where the line is drawn in that country.

akitaka
08-12-2005, 08:06 AM
Y'all are becoming a perfect Orwellian society.
You can say this about any developed country. They all tend to ride a similar track, don't you think?

I have yet to see this zero-tolerance policy enact here in Arizona, though I could tell you that the whole state would be penalized the second that it does. Tossing a cigarette butt would be the new 1st class offense :rolleyes:

Psychochink
08-12-2005, 08:20 AM
I've been to Australia. I love Australia, but don't try and tell me you guys are all perfect. I've seen where the line is drawn in that country.

I didn't. But we tend to avoid the kind of culture of fear that seems to be leading to a number of your more restrictive policies. Taking random shootings as an example: In the not-too-distant past, we had a major shooting incident that had a comparable effect to Columbine. The difference can be seen in that we took some (in my mind a little excessive, but that's by-the-by) steps in the immediate aftermath to regulate gun ownership and then promptly forgot about it. You guys have taken the equivalent incident and let it continue have a major effect on your day-to-day lives, with things like this 'zero-tolerance' policy being a perfect example (also see: Patriot Act). You're still talking about it, it's still affecting your policies, laws and lives.

stillbornsinger
08-12-2005, 08:39 AM
Its been my experience that pretty much all zero tolerence policies are abused at some point or another and are a really bad idea...

I was in 9th grade when columbine happened, so most of this crap started appearing when I was in highschool, I've seen the effect and it sucks...

Same with in the military, there are several zero tolerence policies and most don't make much sense.

1984 is an excellent book that has influenced the policy making of our great country for years, but I fear it is being forgotten by the people in power now. Patriot act, zero tolerence, everything being branded "terrorism", just a few things that are really scary.

Thats it, moving to Canada!!! :mad:

Praetorian
08-12-2005, 09:10 AM
Heh, only in America. Constant supply of humour for your European friends to be entertained with. Seriously though - I'm all for zero tolerance, but not with extremely minor offenses such as these. If someone were to, say, bully in high school; Zero tolerance. But these offenses, maybe with the exception of the "shotgun in gunrack" one (which, honestly, was a pretty stupid mistake even though he didn't deserve to be punished like that) are a joke.

Crimson
08-12-2005, 09:15 AM
You know, it's things like this that make me stand outside and yell, "THANK THE GODS I'M MOVING TO CANADA!" And of course the obligatory jig afterwards.

stillbornsinger
08-12-2005, 10:14 AM
Canada is sounding more and more appealing...

So what is it really like there? Is it really cold... I hate cold...

and are there good roads for riding motorcycles?

Mr.Babalo
08-12-2005, 12:09 PM
Canada is sounding more and more appealing...

So what is it really like there? Is it really cold... I hate cold...

and are there good roads for riding motorcycles?


AHHHHHHhhhh stereotypes.



Canada is not cold during the summer! its cold late fall,and winter(only time where u need to wear a jacket or sweater). And Mild in spring.


lmao, of course we have roads, we have major highways as well. We're not trapped in the stone age: hitting stuff with rocks and trading beaver pelts are long gone.

we have free health care and our population is very diverse (at least where i live in ontario)

Myrsilus
08-12-2005, 12:23 PM
I remember once in junior high I was sitting across from a friend of mine. We were firing off bullets at each other through our fingertips... then the teacher went beserk on us. This was around the time of the Columbine incident, so I could understand how such actions could be taken as offensive, but not to the level she took this matter to. We were nearly expelled until our mothers made the principals crap bricks and put the teacher under harsh investigation. I suspect she may have been bi-polar.

In any case, the zero tolerance policy is heavily abused. I agree with that. Seeing it being blown out of proportion is a sign of the times. This really is no different from the lawsuits we Americans love so much. I love my country, but yeah I do get pissed off at times.

Marblehead
08-12-2005, 12:58 PM
Didn't Canada pass a law saying they weren't going to harbor any draft-dodgers?

setrict
08-12-2005, 03:50 PM
I believe the police officer did the right thing.

Granted, this may have not been what was on his mind, but arresting a 12-year old for eating a french fry was a brilliant way to bring the public attention to a law like that one is/was. If nothing else, it illustrates the catastrophic stupidity of "zero tolerance".

Absolutely! There are inherent dangers with laws that are enforced selectively, the primary danger being one of abuse by the powers that be. So long as the aggregate populace is relatively unaffected by the law, it can be used as a targetted tool. It effectively becomes legalized discrimination.

Our government has no business passing a law as silly as 'not eating on the subway' in the first place. Law should be there to keep the peace as a last resort, not to define society. Laws should be few in number, understandable by the average citizen, specific in nature, reasonable in punishment, and fully enforced. Unfortunately our system rarely meets ANY of those criteria, and has become a sort of organized chaos in which the rich, lawyers and politicians bask.

Kos
08-12-2005, 04:46 PM
Absolutely! There are inherent dangers with laws that are enforced selectively, the primary danger being one of abuse by the powers that be. So long as the aggregate populace is relatively unaffected by the law, it can be used as a targetted tool. It effectively becomes legalized discrimination.

Our government has no business passing a law as silly as 'not eating on the subway' in the first place. Law should be there to keep the peace as a last resort, not to define society. Laws should be few in number, understandable by the average citizen, specific in nature, reasonable in punishment, and fully enforced. Unfortunately our system rarely meets ANY of those criteria, and has become a sort of organized chaos in which the rich, lawyers and politicians bask.

Bear in mind that laws must also apply equally - that is to say a theft must still be treated as a theft, regardless of circumstances. There was a study done some time back that compared the punishments for (1) Shoplifting a CD and (2) Downloading the content of the same CD. The punishment for downloading the CD was astronomically higher in terms of manditory fines and jail time. Another way to look at this would be that a law can be very specific - and in doing so, not apply equally.

Similarly, "legalese" is an attempt to make the english language precise. Unfortunately, that need for precision also renders the language difficult for the average citizen to understand or wield. Pro se actions generally end up as a convoluted mess (which the judicial system dislikes) for a number of reasons - thus why many states (in the US) require practicing lawyers to either pass the state's bar exam or, for specific cases and out of state lawyers, to get judicial permission (Pro Hac); but do not deter the average Joe from undertaking a legal action.

Iekleane
08-12-2005, 05:43 PM
The main problem is that the law makers beleive that children are becoming more damgerous, so they are creating these policies as a way to "deal with them" not to mention placing the blame for these actions on TV shows and games.

AnonCastillo
08-12-2005, 05:54 PM
See, this is why you all need to visit this link:
http://freestateproject.org/community/multimedia/banners/fspfathers-fsp.gif (http://www.freestateproject.com)

Iekleane
08-12-2005, 05:56 PM
Yeah but me doing something to fix the problem goes against everything I beleive. I didn't make the mess let them sort it out.

AnonCastillo
08-12-2005, 06:15 PM
Yeah but me doing something to fix the problem goes against everything I beleive. I didn't make the mess let them sort it out.

Just because you didn't make the mess doesn't mean the mess won't hurt you.

setrict
08-12-2005, 06:17 PM
The Free State Project. That honestly sound interesting too me. If politics=technology then it would be like being Amish! We could all grow some sweet looking beards (except the ladies of course).

Joking aside, I think it's a great concept from what I've read so far and definately worth consideration. Thanks for the linkage.

Iekleane
08-12-2005, 06:23 PM
Never said it wouldn't effect me. Just that I don't care enough about the problem to try and fix it.

ChronoSphere
08-12-2005, 07:00 PM
The zero tolerance laws show exactly what happens when you have a "one size fits all" mentality - it ends up fitting very new crimes. We allow judges to select what they think is a proper punishment for many crimes, because we're well aware that every case is different.

The thing about the kid being arrested for having a unloaded shotgun in his truck pisses me off in particular.