Haggling

[Chinpokomon]

I suck at it.

Perhaps trying to bargain down the appliance that's already at clearance prices is my problem.

Perhaps it's because I'm a foreigner.

Perhaps I just haven't found the magic phrase yet.
I've tried もうちょっと安くなりませんか？ＡもＢもＣをそろって買うと言うのに、安くなりませんか？どうしても無理で すか？

Perhaps Yodabashi Camera just isn't a good place to haggle.

Perhaps haggling just isn't a common practice.

I remember seeing someone from SMAP getting on a gaijin tour bus, and helping the foreigners haggle at Akihabara. However, I think A) being a member of SMAP and B) having a TV crew following you around might help a bit in the haggling department.

Any tips?

[Frankey-eh]

haggling isn't considered a very polite practice in Japan, but they still do it nonetheless. Haha, when we went shopping for a fieldtrip in third grade (to learn to use money and stuff), kids were actually haggling over fruits. we amazed our teacher :D

anyhow, I think you're too polite about it.
～あげるis the key. I'm buying this much FOR you.
ほら、おそろいの靴まで買ってあげるからスカートもっと安くしてよ～

and also, name a price yourself
the store: 15bucks
you: 10 bucks
store: 13 bucks
you: 12 bucks.
the key is know how low to go and how slowly to increase

[erbiumfiber]

When I was in Akihabara, they threw in a stuff (like a memory card) to go with the camera for cheap. It seems that getting accessories for free or cheap to go with a piece of electronics is a lot easier than getting a lower price on the item itself.

[Daddaluma]

Oh god I hate haggling. The language and circumstances don't matter at all. I just hate the whole idea of it.

Even when I'm in hong kong and I'm told that the prices in this certain market are meant to be haggled with. Even if told everyone does it and I'm expected to do it, I still can't make myself go through with it.

[MNJetter]

I hate haggling too.

My dad's great at it, though. This thread just makes me want to relate a story he told us once, from when he and his friend went to Mexico.

Friend (at a little shop): How much is this little button?
Shopkeep: Ten dollars.
Friend: Geez, that's expensive.....but I really want it. Okay.
Shopkeep: ...:stirthepo:....plus five dollars tax!
Friend: :eyepop: .......okay.

Dad (five minutes later, same shop): How much is this little button?
Shopkeep: Ten dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: :eyepop: No! Ten dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: Too cheap. I go out of business. Eight dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: :mad: Seven dollars. No lower.
Dad: Okay. (turns to leave) Maybe I'll come back later.
Shopkeep: ........:mad:........*sigh*......okay, one dollar.

[Frankey-eh]

Oh god I hate haggling. The language and circumstances don't matter at all. I just hate the whole idea of it.

Even when I'm in hong kong and I'm told that the prices in this certain market are meant to be haggled with. Even if told everyone does it and I'm expected to do it, I still can't make myself go through with it.
and HK and China just love foreigners like you :D
they know foreigners don't have the custom of haggling, so they purposely name higher prices.

haggling is great. it's how you can buy 60 cd's (real, not bootleg) in those drama series for 100 yuan when they were sold at 215yuan.
once, we even managed to buy a 750yuan ivory decoration for only 300.

[EIJI]

If you want to get something for less, you should never go to the mass sales store like Yodobashi.
They never offer you another price except for "point card price". You should go to smaller shops or get something on the net.
I regret to find that Japan has lost a good old tradition,haggling in these days.
Here is the internet serch engine for lower preices.
http://kakaku.com/

And one of another way is,
Ask haggling of the kansai-jin.;) They are good at haggling in general.

[Frankey-eh]

If you want to get something for less, you should never go to the mass sales store like Yodobashi.
よどばしってカメラだけじゃなかったんだww

---

or, if you want cheap stuff, go to hyakkin.
Shinjuku's got one giant one. and so does Akihabara and shibuya...? anyhow, look in the JR station underground shops.

[General_Admission]

I hate haggling too.

My dad's great at it, though. This thread just makes me want to relate a story he told us once, from when he and his friend went to Mexico.

Friend (at a little shop): How much is this little button?
Shopkeep: Ten dollars.
Friend: Geez, that's expensive.....but I really want it. Okay.
Shopkeep: ...:stirthepo:....plus five dollars tax!
Friend: :eyepop: .......okay.

Dad (five minutes later, same shop): How much is this little button?
Shopkeep: Ten dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: :eyepop: No! Ten dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: Too cheap. I go out of business. Eight dollars.
Dad: One dollar.
Shopkeep: :mad: Seven dollars. No lower.
Dad: Okay. (turns to leave) Maybe I'll come back later.
Shopkeep: ........:mad:........*sigh*......okay, one dollar.

LOL! Yeah, when I went to Mexico I found that if you walked away like that they would usually pull you back with a great price! :D

But you have to be a stern bastard.

[Digital Masta]

My dad is also good at doing this. I haven't had to do it so I have no idea if I'm good at it or not.

[gyoza]

On a Europe tour, I once got a guy to sell me a souvenir for free. True story. :)

[Chinpokomon]

On a Europe tour, I once got a guy to sell me a souvenir for free. True story. :)
Was this souvenir in powdered form?

[Chinpokomon]

If you want to get something for less, you should never go to the mass sales store like Yodobashi.
They never offer you another price except for "point card price". You should go to smaller shops or get something on the net.
I regret to find that Japan has lost a good old tradition,haggling in these days.
Here is the internet serch engine for lower preices.
http://kakaku.com/

And one of another way is,
Ask haggling of the kansai-jin.;) They are good at haggling in general.
I have lots of points on my point card. I really like Yodabashi Camera in general. Lots of selection, very knowledgable sales people, catchy theme song.

Rika: More like "Yodabashi camera also sells cameras?"

[gyoza]

Was this souvenir in powdered form?

A light in the shape of the Eiffel tower. Still works.

[hanacker]

When I was in Akihabara, they threw in a stuff (like a memory card) to go with the camera for cheap. It seems that getting accessories for free or cheap to go with a piece of electronics is a lot easier than getting a lower price on the item itself.

Yeah, when I went to buy a camera in Osaka, the girl I went with said I should have tried to get a camera bag for free to go along with it. Not sure why she didn't tell me that before I got it.

[JapaneseLever]

oo i love to haggle in akihabara.

i haggled over a sweet ass camera 4 megapix, 32X zoom, etc. and i got it down to like 32500. i was like "ok" and when he went to ring me up i whipped out my passport, and said "you can deduct the tax also."

i love that tax thing; it's wonderful.

p.s. stay in school

[Chinpokomon]

oo i love to haggle in akihabara.

i haggled over a sweet ass camera 4 megapix, 32X zoom, etc. and i got it down to like 32500. i was like "ok" and when he went to ring me up i whipped out my passport, and said "you can deduct the tax also."

i love that tax thing; it's wonderful.

p.s. stay in school

Ok, now we're talking.

Was the camera on sale already?
What store?
What were they originally asking for it?
Was this transaction in English or in Japanese.
If I'm a long term resident here, does that mean I don't have to pay tax on anything?

[Marqs]

I've heard the same thing about big shops. They might have fixed prices & knowledgable personnel - so go there to test the stuff & ask questions. Then when you go to the small shop, act slightly interested, but not too much... Like you're MAYBE buying. If they know you want it, i guess they know you're gonna buy it anyway.

It helps if you go trough a couple of shops, so you know the price-range. Smaller shop, where the owner might also be working are good. They can cut the prices, some half-time worker might not have the right to do it on his own. Ask how much they're willing to lower from that price. So they name price X. Then go to another shop that has the same camera. Tell them that in another shop, you they were ready give it to you for X yen, so how much would they sell it for in this shop?

I bought a good video-camera (for about 9man) in Akihabara. The original price was around 10man, and in other shops from 13man to 15man. Oh - minus the tax, also. Don't know how that works for residents.

[Chinpokomon]

I've heard the same thing about big shops. They might have fixed prices & knowledgable personnel - so go there to test the stuff & ask questions. Then when you go to the small shop, act slightly interested, but not too much... Like you're MAYBE buying. If they know you want it, i guess they know you're gonna buy it anyway.

It helps if you go trough a couple of shops, so you know the price-range. Smaller shop, where the owner might also be working are good. They can cut the prices, some half-time worker might not have the right to do it on his own. Ask how much they're willing to lower from that price. So they name price X. Then go to another shop that has the same camera. Tell them that in another shop, you they were ready give it to you for X yen, so how much would they sell it for in this shop?

I bought a good video-camera (for about 9man) in Akihabara. The original price was around 10man, and in other shops from 13man to 15man. Oh - minus the tax, also. Don't know how that works for residents.

Hmm, the item in question was a washing machine, so I don't really know of any shops which sell such a thing besides the big shops.

Next item is going to be a flat screen TV, again, which I don't know where else to buy but the larger stores.

However, this is definitely good advice. I'll try to remember it next time I'm buying something a little smaller.

[Jess]

I once haggled without realizing it. :)

My friend and I were in Kotohira, at Konpira-san - souvenir shops line the entire stairway to the temple, some with really cool stuff. My friend spoke no Japanese, so I had to do the translation for her. She found a medicine container carved from wood - being pre-med, she was interested - and we were quoted a price of about $400. I told my friend the price, and she said she would think about it. As we moved throughout the store, the shopkeeper kept talking to me, and I eventually figured out she was lowering the price. We haggled down to about $300, and then we agreed. My friend handed the item to the shopkeeper to hold while we looked through the rest of the store...the shopkeeper thought we were leaving ( I meant to say "we're just looking some more", but it obviously didn't come out right ) and offered it for $275. :) I never knew I was so good at negotiation.

[TrendSeven]

and HK and China just love foreigners like you :D
they know foreigners don't have the custom of haggling, so they purposely name higher prices.

haggling is great. it's how you can buy 60 cd's (real, not bootleg) in those drama series for 100 yuan when they were sold at 215yuan.
once, we even managed to buy a 750yuan ivory decoration for only 300.
You still got ripped off compared to the "Chinese Price". If you're really good at haggling in China you can get prices that are 25% of the original. I picked up a bunch of (fake) DVDs for 5 Yuan a piece.

[General_Admission]

I once haggled without realizing it. :)

My friend and I were in Kotohira, at Konpira-san - souvenir shops line the entire stairway to the temple, some with really cool stuff. My friend spoke no Japanese, so I had to do the translation for her. She found a medicine container carved from wood - being pre-med, she was interested - and we were quoted a price of about $400. I told my friend the price, and she said she would think about it. As we moved throughout the store, the shopkeeper kept talking to me, and I eventually figured out she was lowering the price. We haggled down to about $300, and then we agreed. My friend handed the item to the shopkeeper to hold while we looked through the rest of the store...the shopkeeper thought we were leaving ( I meant to say "we're just looking some more", but it obviously didn't come out right ) and offered it for $275. :) I never knew I was so good at negotiation.

YES!

That is like always the bomb. Just walk away! You don't need it!

Haggling is fun as heck! I wish the US would do it.

[Frankey-eh]

You still got ripped off compared to the "Chinese Price". If you're really good at haggling in China you can get prices that are 25% of the original. I picked up a bunch of (fake) DVDs for 5 Yuan a piece.

five a piece is only for fake. Notice I was talking about real copies.
besides, HK banned bootlegs. and notice... we got about 50% off?
And... I beat you. We've gotten deals for 4 a piece for bootlegs :P

[kitsunepixie]

When I first got to Japan for JET, an Aussie CIR and I went to buy cell phones at the local Best Denki. He is originally from Taiwan, and absolutely ROCKS at haggling. He managed to get over 10,000 yen off of a brand-new camera phone that was released that same day by saying, "But I saw it was cheaper at such-and-such shop..." I was about to die from embarrassment since haggling isn't something I'm used to, but it worked out to be quite a nice bargain! Whenever we go back to that branch of Best Denki, we always go to the same clerk, and the Aussie guy even brings him souvenirs from his trips.

[Worry]

YES!

That is like always the bomb. Just walk away! You don't need it!

Haggling is fun as heck! I wish the US would do it.


The US does do it. Friend of mine got almost 50% off a big screen high def television at Circuit City. Course it probably helped that he is a 320 pound biker and has the look af a mass murderer. I told him when I am ready for one, I want him to negociate the price :watson:

[Plekto]

Big chain retailers are tough - you usually have to get the floor model or find a scuff or scratch or something to get money off, but independant places - they'll cut their profit margin to very low levels to compete with Circuit City down the road. Or at the least throw in al the cables and such that you need for free. Haggling is a blast - try it more often.

Note - it's especially helpful with cellular providers. You can get Motorolla Razor V3s(recent model) with a plan for virtually free if you shop and haggle a bit(normally $200 listed, but the guys get them for about $50 their cost)

[mikem]

I
Perhaps Yodabashi Camera just isn't a good place to haggle.


You mean just racking up those points isn't good enough! You should have your Gold Point Card revoked. Didn't your visa stipulate you would single-handedly pull Japan out of this nasty recession!

I would try a local appliance retailer if you want to haggle. You could probably get 30% off most of the prices those guys list. Then again Yodabashi probably already has it for 15% of that price and they're giving you ~10% in ponits anyway.

I've been wondering if FFXII is out yet though. Anyone know? :duh:

[Crowley]

It is in Japan

[Chinpokomon]

I did it!

(And now the longwinded boring details. If you're not interested, you can stop reading now)

So, I'm looking for a Japanese "High Vision" LCD tv. I finally picked out the model I wanted, and I went to Yodabashi in Shinjuku to see if I can swing a deal.

The price on the TV says 26,8000 yen, but there's a sign over the price that says "It's cheaper now! Ask to find out more"

So I ask this younger guy at the store. He flips up the sign to view the price, and tells me 19,8000 yen. I'm pretty pleased with this, as I hadn't expected the price to come down that much. I ask him about points though, and he says 10%. I look around some more...

I find the same TV in another section of the floor, with stickers on it saying 10% points, but then there's another sticker for +5%. I ask a different guy (older) about the price, and he quotes me 20,8000 yen, but this time, with 18% points.

So, same store, same floor, but two different guys are telling me 2 different prices and points. Interesting. :watson:

I knew that Bic Camera in Shibuya had a sale for 20% points on certain items ending that day, so I wander over to Bic Camera in Shinjuku to see what their price is, and hoping that I can get 20% points.

When I arrive at Bic Camera, they have a "time sale" on the TV, and it is marked down to 20,8000 yen, with 17% on points.

So, I call the clerk over and ask him if he can't go any lower on the price.
He politely tells me that it's already marked way down for the time sale, and that it's already a really good price.

I mention that at Yodabashi, they were offering 19,8000 yen with 18% on points.

He pulls out his calculator and does some math. He tells me that they might be able to do it, but he'd have to check with his manager. If they make the deal though, I'd have to buy the TV from them though. I'm not sure how they plan on enforcing that, but I agree.

He comes back, and says that we've got a deal, and I am trying very hard not to grin.

First time I've ever had success at haggling, and it was actually kind of a rush when it worked.

I think a strategy I'm going to employ in the future is rather than asking "Can you go any lower on this", I'm just going to start throwing out prices.
This particular phrase sounds like it might work
何とか万何千円なら、買ってもいいと思いますが。。。
If it were such-and-such a price, I think I would buy it, but...

Anyway, thanks for all the advice I got on this thread. It definitely was helpful.

FYI, here's the TV I got (32V one)
http://www.sharp.co.jp/aquos/lineup/bd1/index.html?type=2&name=32bd1

[gyoza]

Damn that's a sweet TV, good for you.

[Frankey-eh]

This particular phrase sounds like it might work
何とか万何千円なら、買ってもいいと思いますが。。。
If it were such-and-such a price, I think I would buy it, but...
good job...but this sentence sounds weird. I've heard of
何千円
何万円
何千万円
but never万何千円.
I think that's because
1. you never say 万円. it's always 一万円(always need a number in the front) and
2. if you are estimating, you won't go into ten-thousandth AND thousandth place. just round to the nearest largest place.

[Chinpokomon]

good job...but this sentence sounds weird. I've heard of
何千円
何万円
何千万円
but never万何千円.
I think that's because
1. you never say 万円. it's always 一万円(always need a number in the front) and
2. if you are estimating, you won't go into ten-thousandth AND thousandth place. just round to the nearest largest place.

Thanks for the tip. It sounded weird to me too, but I wasn't sure how to express the concept of an unknown number of ten thousands and thousands in Japanese. Of course, English is the same I think.

"If the price were such-and-such thousand such-and-such hundred dollars..."
That's weird as well.

[Digital Masta]

Thats a pretty sexy TV.

[Chinpokomon]

Thanks. I think I'm gonna be pretty happy with it. I've never had a nice TV before.

[EIJI]

Congratulations!
You got it at 162360 YEN including points, right?
http://kakaku.com/prdsearch/detail.asp?PrdKey=20415010434
Your price is the lowest price.

[Plekto]

Ah. We have another convert to non-retail pricing. :)

Enjoy the TV - it's a good set.

[Masa the Masta]

The U.S does haggle.

Ever tried to buy a new, or even a used car? Real estate? There's still haggling, but we're looking at 5 to 6 digit figures now, and it's not an everyday thing to be buying and selling cars, you probably do something of this nature once every 3-5 years...

Car haggling is the best though, even if you're only going for the test drive. :D *Test drove an RX-8 this way..*

[Chinpokomon]

Congratulations!
You got it at 162360 YEN including points, right?
http://kakaku.com/prdsearch/detail.asp?PrdKey=20415010434
Your price is the lowest price.
:duh: I forgot to check this site first! せっかく教えていただきましたのに...
Looks like I just got lucky. Also, I got free shipping, and free set-up, which it seems the　site didn't offer.

I also forgot to mention, once I was done, the guy says "At this time, the main entrance is closed, so I will guide you to the exit." To his boss, "I'm going to guide a customer" He then walks with me for about 3 minutes through the store, down the stairs, and finally out the exit. He then thanks me, bows, and finally hands me my receipt. All in all, quite a strange experience.

[grace_enyi]

Any additional tips anyone can offer about haggling? :whoops: I've never, ever tried it before. My mom's from Taiwan, but she's also the soft-spoken type, so I can bet you that she's never tried it before and isn't the best role model. I'm the timid type who tends to even feel bad about bothering people for stuff that I should have (e.g. recommendations from professors), but it's not like I have that much money to waste, so I'd rather learn how to be tougher. I'm afraid people are just going to eat me alive if I ever go to China and try buying stuff there. How do you learn to bargain without feeling bitchy/caring if you seem bitchy?

[stsparky]

Ask if you could get the demo floor model of anything cheaper? My wife did that at Yotobashi Camera for our smaller Sharp LCD TV. Your is bigger and sexier though.

We did that for an air conditioner as well. And got expert installation. Free!

Congratulations!

[kitsunepixie]

Any additional tips anyone can offer about haggling? :whoops: I've never, ever tried it before. My mom's from Taiwan, but she's also the soft-spoken type, so I can bet you that she's never tried it before and isn't the best role model. I'm the timid type who tends to even feel bad about bothering people for stuff that I should have (e.g. recommendations from professors), but it's not like I have that much money to waste, so I'd rather learn how to be tougher. I'm afraid people are just going to eat me alive if I ever go to China and try buying stuff there. How do you learn to bargain without feeling bitchy/caring if you seem bitchy?

I have the same problem. I'd rather pay a higher price for something than "bother" someone by haggling with them...but then again, getting a wicked discount on something makes being an obnoxious customer all the more attractive...

[Chinpokomon]

I have the same problem. I'd rather pay a higher price for something than "bother" someone by haggling with them...but then again, getting a wicked discount on something makes being an obnoxious customer all the more attractive...
I'd feel bad doing it at the mom 'n pop stores, because they're probably getting put out of business by the large electronic chains. Of course, I guess their prices are higher in general? So I generally avoid them in the first place. Which means I guess I'm not actually helping them, am I? :duh:

Anyway, I don't really feel bad about haggling. I want to make sure I at least make the effort to get a good price. Otherwise I'd feel like a sucker. And I'd rather be rude than a sucker.

[Plekto]

Actually, the thing to do at the mom and pop stores is to pay the price, since it's hard for them to sell it cheaper, but get a ton of free accessories, where they can actually cut their profit margins and not suffer much, if any.

I'll spend 10% more as a rule, to support small businesses, anyways.

[yao_yao]

Shanghai we always haggle. Basically I walk in looking bored (ie i dont reallly need this stuff, so i wont buy it unless i get a good price look), and since I'm part shanghainese they usually giv me a low price.

"hm... i dunno, i think i can get it at blahblahblah for (insert 1/3 of the price, or lower if u think u can get away with it)"

listen to them get pissed adn stuff, and boredly point out flaws in their argument. if they dont go down enough, put just a teensy bit more on ur offering. if still dont, leave while mumbling english

then they realize i am foreign, therefore i have money, and if i do well i come back.


usually gets it.

[Frankey-eh]

Shanghai we always haggle. Basically I walk in looking bored (ie i dont reallly need this stuff, so i wont buy it unless i get a good price look), and since I'm part shanghainese they usually giv me a low price.

"hm... i dunno, i think i can get it at blahblahblah for (insert 1/3 of the price, or lower if u think u can get away with it)"

listen to them get pissed adn stuff, and boredly point out flaws in their argument. if they dont go down enough, put just a teensy bit more on ur offering. if still dont, leave while mumbling english

then they realize i am foreign, therefore i have money, and if i do well i come back.


usually gets it.
haha. I'm so trying this!
I've always been told not to speak English because they're going to kidnap me.

[yao_yao]

haha. I'm so trying this!
I've always been told not to speak English because they're going to kidnap me.

and that's when u let it be known u hav a cellphone. Like whenever i get into a taxi and tell them my destination, I call my mom/maid/fakecall and say "yea I'm on the taxi now, should be home in XX time... the traffic looks like blahblah right now btw. I'll call you if there's any more delays."

for shopping i just fake call "nono the shop u refered wasnt right, I think I'll look around a bit more." Hence it makes them think that there are possible ppl u will refer cuz someone else referred u

[Frankey-eh]

and that's when u let it be known u hav a cellphone. Like whenever i get into a taxi and tell them my destination, I call my mom/maid/fakecall and say "yea I'm on the taxi now, should be home in XX time... the traffic looks like blahblah right now btw. I'll call you if there's any more delays."

for shopping i just fake call "nono the shop u refered wasnt right, I think I'll look around a bit more." Hence it makes them think that there are possible ppl u will refer cuz someone else referred u

lol you're breaking every rule my relatives drilled into me! I thought you weren't suppose to use cellphones on the street because cellphone stealers always target people who use cellphones in public. I was told that if I do use it, I have to be at a place where the thief won't have an easy escape route.

[Unknown]

YES!

That is like always the bomb. Just walk away! You don't need it!

Haggling is fun as heck! I wish the US would do it.

I haggled in the US once at a white castle.
I was 7 and I acted like I didn't know how many burgers I wanted to get.
I ended up getting 4 burgers for free.

[yao_yao]

lol you're breaking every rule my relatives drilled into me! I thought you weren't suppose to use cellphones on the street because cellphone stealers always target people who use cellphones in public. I was told that if I do use it, I have to be at a place where the thief won't have an easy escape route.

Yes it's a better idea to avoid using cellphones, I'm like my dad, paranoid as heck, so i stash my cell and wallet in an inner pocket of my jacket... to steal them u'd need to get my entire jacket off. not to mention, my looks are manchurian enough and my temper short enough that most ppl dont want to mess with me.

[shadow]

It's interesting that some people mention haggling in the US. I've never heard of it here before... (except when buying cars)

[Unknown]

It's interesting that some people mention haggling in the US. I've never heard of it here before... (except when buying cars)
I have haggled at craft fairs in the US too. Most of the time, a price can be haggled if its not in a chain store, when I did it at a fast food place was the only time. I think it was just because I was little.

[Plekto]

The firm rule is that anything handmade, organic, or used can be haggled on.

ie- while the tools at the garden shop might be fixed, the plants are always negotiable.(fertilizer or anything the package on-site as well) I like to use the line "Is there anything on sale?" - usually they are all too happy to point out a few things, which leads me to "what about these?" and I take it from there.(not to mention I've dumpster-dived at the local nursery/garden shop - you'd be amazed at the good plants they throw away)

The law in most of the U.S. is that if it's trash and unlocked, it's considered anyone's if they want it(littering/disturbance laws still apply). 99.9% of stuff nobody wants, but some businesses throw out a lot of things that are perfectly good. I ask about this as well - offer then $5 or something for it, to be nice. I've managed to get old furniture, rugs, computer parts, lumber, you name it. Old houses they are tearing down are good as well. I managed to get a washer and a nice stove for my last house that way. Both in great shape. Got a couple of good hardwood doors as well. Little paint and presto - not bad for $20 each.

Most anything in a small independant shop can be as well. If you don't haggle when you are shopping for kitchen tile, for instance, you're almost breaking the rules. Contractors expect a little haggling.

Furniture stores - haggle like a madman. Bedding/mattress stores as well. A few industries are like auto dealers - haggling is the norm. Furniture, Bedding, Insturments, Pool tables, Televisions, Something with an engine in it... basically, over $1000 is likely, and anything over 3-5K is de-facto haggling territory.

Also, anything that involves time and labor can be haggled upon - like getting free delivery or installation.

I love to haggle, as you can tell. :) It also helps that I spend most of my money at local shops instead of large chains. I can usually haggle to close to the retail price on larger items and and extra I spend is helping out a local business instead of Wal-Mart.

[Chinpokomon]

<vaguely related to the topic>

So, I finally got my TV delivered. I spent the first hour or so just flipping back and forth between the analog broadcast, and the high def digital broadcast on NHK.

"Look, see that one hair sticking out from Koizumi's neck!?"
<click>
"See, you can barely see it on analog."
<click>
"Damn, look how clearly I can see that hair. Truly beautiful"

Does anyone have an HDTV in the US? Don't you need an HDTV tuner box or something to get signals? I was kinda suprised, I just stuck the cable into the wall (or rather, the guy who set it up for me), and I was able to get all the channels, even though I don't have cable.

Anyway, so I got my old PS2 out, hooked it up with composite cables, and popped in FFXII. I know that composite is not the best way to hook up consoles with this kind of TV, but I didn't have component cables at the time. FFXII is still pretty stunning even with composite. However, I *have* to see what it looks like when hooked up "the way it should be".

I head down to Yodabashi, grab what appears to be the last set of component cables, and run back home to try it out.

I watch the opening movie again in composite, for reference.

Ok, I'm ready.

I unwrap the cables.
Plug them into the PS2.
Go around to the back of the TV, and.....

WTF??! :eyepop:
WTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF?!!!!?!?!?:eyepop: :eyepop: :eyepop:

There are no component inputs??!
You mean to tell me, I have 3 sets of composite inputs, HDMI, DVI, ethernet, firewire, and no component????

ショック！
I consult the instruction manual.
No, there don't appear to be any "hidden" inputs anywhere.

I play Final Fantasy over composite for a while to make myself feel better, but I still feel like an idiot for not checking all the inputs completely before I made such a purchase :duh:

However, when I did a little investigating on the net today, it turns out the TV DOES have component. It just doesn't look like component. Japan has a special type of component called D component. It takes all of the 5 cables that normal component uses and combines them into one cable.

So, I'm off to Yodabashi to see if I can take back my almost new component cable, and exchange it for a D component cable. I know that's not the norm in Japan, but I'm gonna see if I can gaijin smash my way through this.

Wish me luck, and sorry for all the technobabble. Maybe someone might find it interesting.

[Plekto]

Use HDMI if you can and the console supports it - it's Hi-Def's version of component.

[Chinpokomon]

Use HDMI if you can and the console supports it - it's Hi-Def's version of component.
PS2 doesn't support HDMI, but I hear the PS3 will. I won't be able to hold out until then though. The 360 also doesn't support HDMI, so I'll just stick with component for now.

So, to continue my riveting story.
I was able to return the component cables which I purchased.
"You haven't opened these, right?"
"Um, right"

So, I was able to purchase a D-Component cable.
The clerk wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting this time, so he said:
"You do realize that this somethingsomethingsomething(')$('#, right?"
"Um, right"

So, I take my new D component cables home, plug it in, and everything looks nice.......wait a second, something's wrong...

There's no sound.

I hooked up the D component cable and the glowing red cable to the glowing red hole in my TV... should work, right?

Well, after a bit of research, it turns out I bought D-Component + Optical Audio cables.

My TV supports optical audio output, but not optical audio input.

So, now I can either buy a surround sound system which supports optical audio, or I can attempt to return opened cables again for the second day in a row, only this time, not an exchange.

I'm officially an idiot.

Thank you.
*bows*

By the way, component made the screen much sharper, but since the resolution still sucks (525i, I believe), it really doesn't make anything look better, except text. What I mean is that, now I can see the pixelation very clearly. It actually looked better with the softer, fuzzier output of the composite cables.

I'm interested to see if the 360 looks any better, since the resolution is 720p standard.

[Crowley]

You appear to have a steady temper. If it were me, there'd be head-shaped dents in the wall by that point ;)

[Chinpokomon]

I want to get some of my 3 month deposit back.

Besides, I'm less angry as I am embarrassed/disappointed.

[Crowley]

Hey, on the other hand you have an awesome television that DOES allow you to play your PS2 on it. Fuck it, who cares :)

[Chinpokomon]

So, I was able to return the D-component + optical audio cable.

"So, you haven't opened this right?
"Um, no"

The lie was out of my mouth before I could stop it. Am I a bad person?:gangster:

Anyway, I was able to get a D-component + composite audio cable at Bic camera, and am now able to play FFXII in all its beauty.

Stupid hagure-tomato...

[Daddaluma]

So, I was able to return the D-component + optical audio cable.

"So, you haven't opened this right?
"Um, no"

The lie was out of my mouth before I could stop it. Am I a bad person?:gangster:

Anyway, I was able to get a D-component + composite audio cable at Bic camera, and am now able to play FFXII in all its beauty.

Stupid hagure-tomato...

haha. It took me an unreasonable amount of time to even find that stupid tomato.