Exactly what do they teach in Japanese classrooms?

[KujiInRetsu]

Being a student in America, I've developed some curiosities about Japanese student life. Unlike my Japanese class, real Japanese students don't sit around and fold origami all day, that much is obvious. Really, it's kinda humiliating sometimes. What might I expect to find in a Japanese school setting? Just how far are they ahead of Americans in math and science? Do they have political science classes, and do they analyze the political situation in Japan like we do here in the States?

[mediocre]

Calculus, Physics, Trig I've seen on the math end. Dont know if that is the average japanese student or not, but I know it is offered at the high school level. My high school, in Florida, went up to calc2; but that surely isn't standard american fare too.


Aside from the 'classroom culture', it is the same shit, different country. Dont believe the myths.

[Excel-2008]

In a Japanese language lab in an American school, it's exactly what you would expect from an orthodox anime.

[X the Eliminator]

In a Japanese language lab in an American school, it's exactly what you would expect from an orthodox anime.

Excel, what is an "orthodox" anime? ... examples?

BTW, I know what orthodox means - I've just never heard it used to describe an anime before.

[akitaka]

The last time I recalled, Japan was reforming their education to be more to the level of America's...in "difficulty". As in, less strict regulations, easier subjects, etc...but it could all be balogne. I can't say Kumon didn't help me, though complex math feels generally useless (yes, we had it in Arizona).

[Excel-2008]

Excel, what is an "orthodox" anime? ... examples?

BTW, I know what orthodox means - I've just never heard it used to describe an anime before.
Think about anyone you know who publicly claims a love for anime. Imagine a television program that they would make.

There is also the use of the word orthodox to define the art style. I define the orthodox anime style as any show animated by Production I.G. The orthodox manga style is defined by Rumiko Takahashi.

[KO3AK]

Now I know that Japanese kids don't sit around all day folding origami and shit unlike my Japanese class.

You're a sharp one. You observation and analysis skills are on the pro level, Detective Dipshit. Now, do they teach how to eat fastfood and be apathetic in American schools? Thought so.

[KujiInRetsu]

You're a sharp one. You observation and analysis skills are on the pro level, Detective Dipshit. Now, do they teach how to eat fastfood and be apathetic in American schools? Thought so. :D Hey, well fuck you too, buddy. :D

Seriously. The origami example was something that actually comes out of my Japanese class. You'd think we'd get somewhere farther than that in terms of culture study.

[l337m45t3r]

Well, there is one old fossil who only seems to teach the history of Second Impact...

[MajorProblem]

Yeah, that was a pretty cheap shot, KO3AK...

[limextreme]

You took Kumon! I took Kumon Math few years back!

[mugen]

they should reform it to the dutch model :P
I'm sorry to say this america, but I know people who went to the states- some for a year, some for a week- and they all say, after highschool an average dutch is wAAAAAy ahead of a average American.

[TheLostProphet]

Now I know that Japanese kids don't sit around all day folding origami and shit unlike my Japanese class.

You're a sharp one. You observation and analysis skills are on the pro level, Detective Dipshit. Now, do they teach how to eat fastfood and be apathetic in American schools? Thought so.

:D Hey, well fuck you too, buddy. :D

xDDDDDDDDDD

Aw man, now that's some funny shit!

[Praetorian]

I have to agree. Even though that was uncalled for, it was an absolutely HILARIOUS and sharp response from KO3AK.

[TheLostProphet]

Gotta love KIR's, "yeah man, whatever" style response too XD

[Larrikin]

I have to agree. Even though that was uncalled for, it was an absolutely HILARIOUS and sharp response from KO3AK.
No it wasn't, it was a completely off the wall comment and if he had taken more than 1 second to read the original post he wouldn't come out of it looking like a complete ass.

[MaverickHL]

Based on a few questioned I asked the kids I teach in my class (in Japanese of course, for some odd bizzare reason even reitterating it to English they give me blank stares), They have class which inlvolves, math, art, music, learning kanji and then CLUB and extra curricular studying. Repeat this year round, and them having the borg mentality and you got yourself a a little picture of what a Japanese do and teach in their class rooms. Az can probrably fill you in better, since I do not have first hand experience in a real school environment.

[akitaka]

You took Kumon! I took Kumon Math few years back!

So what level did you reach? I can't remember. All that I know is that no one I know is faster than me when muliplying 3 digit numbers in my head.

BUT WHAT IS THE USE.

....seriously, though. If I could take those years back, and replace them with College Algebra (or harsh labor), which wasn't anywhere near difficult, I would. I'm unsure of Japan now, but education in Arizona is asanine and frankly, pointless. I could have gotten an A in ENG101 by age 14, and I'm not even exaggerating.

[KujiInRetsu]

Any specific classes you might find in a Japanese school, namely some of the more higher-end schools? "Advanced Calculus", or "Discrete Math", in Japanese of course, you know, that kinda thing. Also, I've heard of some Japanese schools participating in model rocket launches here in the United States, anyone know much about those?

[akitaka]

I used to build them. I can't say much about JP participation though; it was just a hobby.

[Kei]

Just pointing something out here...but American education is about 2 years behind most other countries' education...

[Iekleane]

Yes, Now imagine how it feels living in the country. I'm considered smart because I can slightly understand geometry.

[Mechs]

Just pointing something out here...but American education is about 2 years behind most other countries' education...

I dont get it :confused:. What the hell are other students in other countries learning that im not to make them smarter than me and have a overall better education?!?!? I really, really dont understand what people really mean when they say that.

[Iekleane]

Basicly American teachers are paid less and get less respect not to mention having to deal with shitheads on top of it. So our education isn't as far along as other countries

[Shreekant]

this can be resolved quite easily...ahem...****Any Americans Studying High School Maths and are 17 years old****

have you learnt what differentiation is?

(yay, first post :D)

P.s. i can't get my sig to work...help please?

[Iekleane]

that depends on which math your talking about we have ours split up into algebra geometry algebra 2 calculus and a few others. But in my case no I have yet top learn or remember that.

[Mechs]

this can be resolved quite easily...ahem...****Any Americans Studying High School Maths and are 17 years old****

have you learnt what differentiation is?

(yay, first post :D)

P.s. i can't get my sig to work...help please?

What the hell is differentiation? I might be learning this in the near future so can you explain this too me?

[Azrael]

I personally don't think Japanese schools are that far ahead.

My kids have English, Japanese, Math, History, Art, Industrial Arts, and P.E./health. I don't go to the other classes, so I can't tell you anything about the contents. But for the longest time, I thought they weren't really learning English. They teach grammar and a lot of memorization, but that's about it. In one class, they may teach "Can you show me the way to the post office?" And then explain what that means in Japanese, but then not really explain why.

I kind of think that the normal school classes are just kind of a warm-up for the cram school classes.

It seems like the majority of the year is spent on special schedule. When the school year starts up again, there won't be any afternoon classes so that the kids can practice for Sports Day.

[akitaka]

So. Would you say that school is an absolute must to get a worthy income to raising a family? From what I've read here and in Japantoday, it seems that without college, people are doomed to be unable to support families with jobs earned from apprenticeships or simple hard work (labor, contruction, etc). That whole "borg" concept just grows by each year; at least that's what happening to work force in the U.S., albiet at a more gradual pace.

[SatoriSempai]

What do they teach in japanese Middle schools? as far as i could tell in my 4 months attending one (Takamastu Chugaku, Minatoku, Tokyo), absolutely jack.

The Math class ocasionally feature learning (YAY!) as did science, but if any other class had any education value at all, i must have missed it.

History class consisted of a Big japanese guy (I swear, he was 6 feet) coming in, standing at the front of the class, and then fixing his eyes on a point exactly 34 centimeters left of the clock on the back wall, and lecturing out loud without ever looking at a student, lest he be cursed or something. During this time, I was the SOLE student who payed any attention (okay, so i was amusing myself by making up various outlandish reasosn why the teacher was so fxixated on aforementioned point exactly 34 cm left of clock). Every other student was reading a magazine or manga, playing with a cell-phone, drawing, or gamling with dice and small change.

English Class consisted of a nice tacher with croooked teeth doing her best to dsound like a US preschool teacher. "okay, kiddies, let's have a song!" If anyone learned any english from that class they didn't already know from american movies, it's news to me.

Language Class. Oh joy. The teacher was a Chinese lady who knew her ideograms (kanji) much better than anyone that could probably be found in about 30 miles of the school. Alas, Every time, she started off with review, and everytime, they STILL didn't get how to correctly use the grass radical. I already knew, having learned some chinese, so here, again, i'm ahead of the class. whoo.

And never in any class did ANYONE ask a single question. I've beeen to 14 different Schools in the US an din ever school, teh studenst asked questions, showing that:
1) They actually listen to the teacher and thus have something to ask about
and
2) The teacher are actually teaching them something they previously didn;t know.
NEVER so in Japan.
And please don't tell me it's cultural. they sandvbagged me with about 2000 question about america, when i was introduced as "the kid from america."

And don't even get me started on Curriculum. Japan's Ministry of education (like every other ministry except business/trade) lives in lala-land. where WWII consisted soley of Hiroshima and nagasaki getting nuked, and Japan was invited to send troops to korea to "protect' Them. Thus, Philipinos, chinese, and Koreans often still hate Japanese peopel, and the japanese hmostly have no clue why....

It all basically boils down to this:

ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE FINAL EXAM THAT DETERMINES WHETHER YOU GO TO HIGHSCHOOL. IT'S MULTIPLE CHOICE, AND YOU GET THE TEST QUESTIONS AHEAD OF TIME TO STUDY FROM (we never get it *that* easy in america). NO ONE LEARNS JACK, UNTIL TWO WEEKS BEFORE EXAMS WHEN THEY ALL ENROLL IN "CRAM SCHOOL."

[Mechs]

I have a question. If these kids are suppossed to be learning stuff for to pass tests in school...then why do they have to go to these cram schools. Are the tests that hard where they have to study everyday afterschool just to pass?

[Kuribo's Shoe]

I feel obligated to jump in here and mention that I definitely knew differentiation when I was 17 (I'm from Massachusetts, by the way). It was an advanced math class, but it was available.

[tm23]

I have a question. If these kids are suppossed to be learning stuff for to pass tests in school...then why do they have to go to these cram schools. Are the tests that hard where they have to study everyday afterschool just to pass?

Because many entrance exams are essentially constructed to test how much useless trivia you managed to cram into your heads from going to a cram school usually run by someone who used to (or currently) write the exams. I know that questions relating to who was so-and-so's second cousin in the Hapsburg dynasty used to come up on such exams. It's not that it's necessarily difficult material, it's that there's so much useless crap that needs to be memorized. It's as if "Jeopardy" is the measuring stick for one's ability to succeed in college.

BTW, at my crap public high school in California, I literally ran out of math and science classes to take and started taking classes at the local community college (so, yeah, I knew differentiation in my junior year in high school :D ). I wouldn't say Japan is that far ahead of us in terms of math/science, esp. if you realize that if you compared US high schoolers and Japanese ones, that comparison is already skewed by the fact that school is compulsory only through the 9th grade in Japan (unless that's changed recently).

[hapacheese]

Actually, Japan is ahead as far as math goes. While there are exceptions (like you, I ran out of math classes to take halfway through high school...), on average, American schools are far behind in teaching methods and the materials being taught. It's simply a cultural thing. Asian cultures place much more value on studying as a child than many areas in the US do. I have TA'ed math classes before, and my fiance is a teacher... sometimes, it's simply scary to see how far behind some people are.

[KujiInRetsu]

Couple this with the fact I suck at royally suck at math... hoo. Could be a tough time in Japan if I ever go to study there. :(

[Maian]

Personally, I think Calculus courses should be electives. That may sound strange from a guy who aced those in high school and chose a math-related major (computer science), but I honestly have not found a significant use for it. Okay, there are rare occasions where I use it to find the area for some 2D object, but other than that, useless. Unless you plan to be major in physics or mathematics, I'm not sure those courses are necessary.

Though I did have a very clumsy professor who taught multivar calculus, who did everything should could to keep our attention. Like a course on "calculus can save your life!", which had something to do with contour lines on the sea floor. (And in that same lecture, she stumbled into the trash can into the corner *laff*)

Statistics however...now that's different story. Everyone should take statistics. Or discrete math at the very least. You know that saying "there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"? We ought to try fixing that last one.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Argh, I had a HUGE diatribe on this at the old forums, but it has been lost to the annals of time I s'pose...

Japanese schools suck because they don't teach any critical thinking skills.

That was the short of it.

[hapamama]

Argh, I had a HUGE diatribe on this at the old forums, but it has been lost to the annals of time I s'pose...

Japanese schools suck because they don't teach any critical thinking skills.

That was the short of it.

That's something that I noticed about many of the Japanese exchange students I went to college with. Most of them really seemed to struggle with things that didn't involve regurgitating facts.

[Pierrot le Fou]

One would wonder how they could entire miss the whole critical thinking part of education when they spend ungodly amounts of hours in classrooms and cram schools studying up on how to regurgitate facts on command.

...oh, wait, I can see how now...

[Excel-2008]

I personally don't think Japanese schools are that far ahead.

My kids have English, Japanese, Math, History, Art, Industrial Arts, and P.E./health. I don't go to the other classes, so I can't tell you anything about the contents. But for the longest time, I thought they weren't really learning English. They teach grammar and a lot of memorization, but that's about it. In one class, they may teach "Can you show me the way to the post office?" And then explain what that means in Japanese, but then not really explain why.

I kind of think that the normal school classes are just kind of a warm-up for the cram school classes.

It seems like the majority of the year is spent on special schedule. When the school year starts up again, there won't be any afternoon classes so that the kids can practice for Sports Day.
Elaborate on Industrial Arts. I didn't have any such classes in my schools.

[CNagy]

Just as a clarification to those who say american schooling sucks, and we're so far behind, etc.

That is a statement based on an average. By sheer size and numbers we produce a great deal of highly educated students. We have many excellent public highschools with challenging courses that extend far into college level material; I know, I came from one.

There are bad schools here; there are horrible schools here. But American public education isn't bad, it is simply uneven. With the amount of landmass the United States occupies, and the natural concentrations of wealth amongst the citizenry, we are going to have our good schools and our bad. While the average may not be up to the rest of the world's standards, our good schools are hardly behind anyone else's good schools. This is my opinion, of course, because I don't feel like trying to find statistics (which 91.253% of the time are made up anyway.)

[hapacheese]

Very good point, cnagy.

And where American grade/middle/high school lag behind, we more than make up for it in college (Japanese colleges, with exceptions of course, are a joke).

[Arilou]

Just as a clarification to those who say american schooling sucks, and we're so far behind, etc.

That is a statement based on an average. By sheer size and numbers we produce a great deal of highly educated students. We have many excellent public highschools with challenging courses that extend far into college level material; I know, I came from one.

There are bad schools here; there are horrible schools here. But American public education isn't bad, it is simply uneven. With the amount of landmass the United States occupies, and the natural concentrations of wealth amongst the citizenry, we are going to have our good schools and our bad. While the average may not be up to the rest of the world's standards, our good schools are hardly behind anyone else's good schools. This is my opinion, of course, because I don't feel like trying to find statistics (which 91.253% of the time are made up anyway.)

US high schools aren't that exceptional, in fact they're slightly below the "good western" countries. US universities though are without a doubt the best in the world.

[Dae_Dae]

The highschool I go to is one of the best in Maryland and a lot of the seniors go to the top unis like Harvard but my mum says that the best schools are in Europe.

[CNagy]

US high schools aren't that exceptional, in fact they're slightly below the "good western" countries. US universities though are without a doubt the best in the world.

I think you miss my point. Any worldwide statistic has to be an average. "Your average 11th grade American student can't do differential equations. Your average American Highschool senior doesn't have a working knowledge of physics, etc."

Education here is technically handled state by state. Texas' quality is not Connecticut's quality is not Florida's quality, so saying "the United States public educational system" like it is one entity is the same as saying "the combined educational systems of Britain and Somalia are far inferior to the educational system of where-ever."

Now, when you have fewer highschools, of course it is easier to ensure quality. But to anyone who says "American Schools are bad" as opposed to "most American public education is substandard," I invite you to compare the top 1000 American public highschools against the top 1000 of any other country. The differences, I believe, should be slight.

[tm23]

Argh, I had a HUGE diatribe on this at the old forums, but it has been lost to the annals of time I s'pose...

Japanese schools suck because they don't teach any critical thinking skills.

That was the short of it.

A friend had a similar diatribe regarding India's vaunted education system. That seems to be a common thing throughout Asia.

edit: For those of you who wanted to know what critical thinking means, here's a PDF (http://www.insightassessment.com/pdf_files/what&why98.pdf) on the topic. Playing devil's advocate: while the western system offers some critical thinking skills, many people can't reason their way out of a paper bag. This goes double for the logical reasoning necessary in engineering and science.

[Trevor McMurder]

I think you miss my point. Any worldwide statistic has to be an average. "Your average 11th grade American student can't do differential equations. Your average American Highschool senior doesn't have a working knowledge of physics, etc."

Education here is technically handled state by state. Texas' quality is not Connecticut's quality is not Florida's quality, so saying "the United States public educational system" like it is one entity is the same as saying "the combined educational systems of Britain and Somalia are far inferior to the educational system of where-ever."

Now, when you have fewer highschools, of course it is easier to ensure quality. But to anyone who says "American Schools are bad" as opposed to "most American public education is substandard," I invite you to compare the top 1000 American public highschools against the top 1000 of any other country. The differences, I believe, should be slight.


I think you have a point there. But we can go even smaller than that. The States are what set the standards, but even then it is up to the individual school districts to execute it. Then if property values are low in that district than the flow of money from the taxation can be meager, resulting in a lower payscale for teachers. That's not to say poor areas can't produce good teachers and quality education, they are just starting with a disadvantage. The States with high average property values seem to produce better results, IE Massachusetts.

[Mojinr]

You know... this is kinda sad. I don't think I've seen a SINGLE post mentioning Kancho Assassination 101...

[General_Admission]

I go to a high school in Texas. Regular classes are a joke. However, one can challenge themselves as much as they want. There is no limit. There are AP, IB, and community college classes (free of charge) that are offered. My junior year I was taking AP Calculus AB and could have gone on to take Statistics. As a senior I am taking Anatomy & Physiology w/ lab (college level, but not AP b/c there is no AP exam for it since it is mostly lab work), AP English 4 (college level), AP Chemistry w/ lab (college level & lab notebook is examined by college to see if you can get lab credit), AP US Government (college level), and AP Macroeconomics (college level). I am also taking Debate III and Theatre.

If I was to do the bare minumum however, I would have almost 0 HW and could probably just sleep through high school. & that's what they are measuring our schools off of...the bare minimum.

[Nekesu]

Well I enjoyed reading this topic so far. It doesn't seem to be that some nations are better and smarter than others, its the individuals' decision to challenge him or herself. My high school in LA had the most amount of APs and the most amount of kids taking them than any other school, #1 in test scores in LA, 10th in the US. Everyone had a class rank based on your grades for every year, i don't even want to remember my rank, haha. Is this my first post? if so then yay, I have a feeling this topic is barely getting started.

[Mechs]

I go to a high school in Texas. Regular classes are a joke. However, one can challenge themselves as much as they want. There is no limit. There are AP, IB, and community college classes (free of charge) that are offered. My junior year I was taking AP Calculus AB and could have gone on to take Statistics. As a senior I am taking Anatomy & Physiology w/ lab (college level, but not AP b/c there is no AP exam for it since it is mostly lab work), AP English 4 (college level), AP Chemistry w/ lab (college level & lab notebook is examined by college to see if you can get lab credit), AP US Government (college level), and AP Macroeconomics (college level). I am also taking Debate III and Theatre.

If I was to do the bare minumum however, I would have almost 0 HW and could probably just sleep through high school. & that's what they are measuring our schools off of...the bare minimum.

I guess I'm one of those guys that just like to do the bare minimum ;). I am taking like two honor classes but thats about it. Lets see....Im a junior this year and Im taking.....Beginner Band, Honors English III, Honors Adv. Algebra *cringe*, Contemporary U.S. History (or something like that), Computer Information Technology, and Physics. Thats about it. Oh and Spanish II. All the stuff I regular classes I had were easy (though that didnt reflect in my grades but thats another story).

[raevyn]

I choose to mix it up, I do the bare minimum in what I already know how to do and understand. (See English and history) but with things like Math, I do the minimum requirement and drop it and make up the "Special credit" in a subject such as science which has a similiar requirement (2 years, 4 semesters) I take 4 years instead to make it look more narrowed down. Also, I take classes at the local community college(For English and History), to meet the foreign language departments requirements I take Russian, The hardest language offered at my school. My favorite teacher too; he is the only teacher i've ran into other than his wife who can teach a foreign language to a high respectful level. Most of the kids who go onto there 4th year only need to go to Russia or the language of choice's country they are studying to become fluent.

[Marblehead]

Well I enjoyed reading this topic so far. It doesn't seem to be that some nations are better and smarter than others, its the individuals' decision to challenge him or herself. My high school in LA had the most amount of APs and the most amount of kids taking them than any other school, #1 in test scores in LA, 10th in the US. Everyone had a class rank based on your grades for every year, i don't even want to remember my rank, haha. Is this my first post? if so then yay, I have a feeling this topic is barely getting started.

Do you go to a private school?

[spaik]

lets face it. public highschool is a joke in terms of knowledge. it teaches very little knowledge overall, and its all stuff you can learn yourself quite easily. it also develops very little critical thinking and analysis skills. you can't even say that its even teaching job skills. public education gives you the very very basic building blocks of knowledge that are required to faciliate any extensive functioning in society, while babysitting you until you can get into the work force. the undergraduate degree is also an extension of this, for the majority of universities. graduate studies are a bit different as it is more like working than actual studying.

i really don't think its any different in any country that has institutionalized learning, especially for manditory schooling.

iq testing is notoriously inaccurate, and really, if you had to measure how a country's 'intelligence' measures up to others, if there's a fault somewhere, it is probably in the environment and culture.

after all, being about to multiply large numbers in your head instantly isn't going to help as much as knowing WHETHER to multiply those numbers or not to solve a problem.

[decswxaqz]

How about the Japanese teach memorization because they need it. If you have to remember 2000 Kanji then why not learn stuff that way as well? It's something they are used to, having to memorize things.

I read a little book from Japan (written in English by an English person) that was used by Japanese as a study aid. In it were some quite interesting articles. One was talking about languages that encourage memorization. Mostly Indian and Asian type languages that have a huge character set. They said that the mind was more open to facts because it could just 'absorb' the information for retrieval at a later date. But that the memorization of facts led to the person not being able to articulate or argue their point. Languages that don't require memorization are much better at saying why things happen or are able to argue their point.

Can someone give actual examples of what they learn? Like some topics in Maths or Science. Like expanding brackets, graphs, simultaneous equations, space, momentum?

[airflame]

i'm a student in Singapore and my country does things a little differently. I'm currently sixteen, and I think my education level is around a high school freshman or a senior in a junior high school. We have compulsory subjects of math, science, humanities and 2 langauges all the way till 18-19 if you take the ordinary route of education (middle to junior high to high etc) so more or less everybody has a certain level of critical and logical thinking and memorizing of facts. It's pretty balanced if you ask me. The humanities components are particularly useful because the way we do things is to memorize facts and use them to argue in questions (critical thinking)...that's how we are tested..and that's also why I havn't been able to get A's easily T_T.

I've done differentiation integration calculus, trigo, the usual stuff. I'm banging my head on the table trying to work out relative velocity now -.-

but ya gotta admit, those japanese and korean students really study their brains off. =p I've always wondered what other people learn in other countries =\ Blame my school for lack of an exchange program...

[SatoriSempai]

Please, don't claim that japanese schools teach math at a better level than american schools. Having attended public school in both america and japan in the same year, i can speak from personaly experience when i say that 8th grade Algrebra at Lawrence Jr. High, Falmouth, Massechutsetts is more advanced than 9th grade math at Takamatsu Chugaku, supposedly the best Jr. High in the Minatoku prefecture of Tokyo. Furthemore, the US class actually involves the teacher interacting with teh studenst, and i say serious signs of learning, whereas the Japanese course was pure lecture, without even homework (homework was assigned all ofTWICE in 3 months, and was not collected).

Don't propigate the "US schools sux" lie, please. Comparing US Education to other nations, the Us still comes out pretty well. We may not win many math olympiads, and standardized test scores are sometimes lower, but that's because US schools tend to empasize understanding of concepts, rather that brute force memorization.

And unlike Japan, we don't stack the deck by giving out the test questions ahead of time.

[mikormack]

Exactly what do they teach in Japanese classrooms?

I'm a little surprised no one has given the obvious answer: absolutely nothing.

this goes for Jr. High School, High School and even University. students here are forced to memorize in excruciating detail facts that will serve them no good which they promptly forget as soon as the next test/entrance exam is over.

I have spoken to many Japanese adults on this matter and they cannot remember for the life of them anything they learned in school. oftentimes they cannot remember anything from University either, unless they studied outside of Japan.

let's face it, the Japanese educational system is broken. they do better on global tests than Americans on math and science, and curriculums for those classes may indeed be more advanced than the US (god knows my school had terrible math and science), but Japanese students learn little and remember nothing. whether it's a product of their language or the system here, who knows.

but any society where 5 or 6 years of English education (often assisted by native speakers, as in Az's case) is normal yet no one--save English majors at the University level--has any clue how to speak it should tell you that something's not working right. hell their history courses oftentimes (deliberately?) don't even have enough time to teach up to World War II...

but yes, you wanted to know what to expect in a Japanese classroom? the same stuff as in America, except in Japanese, except no one's gonna remember a god-damned thing.

[Yoshiko]

I agree with mickormack. When I was there, all the teachers did was just talk and write on the boards. They didn't even care if some of the students fell asleep in class at all. If the english classes didn't have ALTs, what they did was play a tape, translate words, and make students repeat. In the High School Ninensei (equivalent to American Junior) Social Studies classes, they weren't even on the French Revolution.... Even the tests and work sheets are fill in the blank from what the teacher/ textbook/ tape has said. It's kind of sad really....

[Wispo]

Well, I have to totally utterly agree with mikormack: Japanese schools teach nothing. So doesn't American's schools, South-American Schools, Europe Schools, Asia Schools, etc... just name it.

I'm the top senior developer of one of the biggest IT companies at my town, and I can say clearly: I don't remember, and actually never even MISSED, nothing that I EVER learned from Junior to College, and even University came out to be a bunch of theory mambo jambo that, had I never actually learned some computer languages and technologies by myself, I would not be on the position I'm today and would probably be just a standard programmer or something like that.

Let's face it people, schools are not meant to teach, they are meant to socialize. You REALLY do expect 15 year olds to be math experts when they graduate? You want them to be able to solve by heart (not memorizing formulas and theories that they forget 5 minutes after the end-of-term exam) a 2nd degree algebra problem? Why?

Schools all over the world are meant to teach, but above all, to show people the different knowledge areas and fields of studies, to prepare them to live in society. People will eventually get to like some of the classes, and will pursue their college/university degrees at that.

I never used chemestry, phisics, geography ... why the hell did I had to memorize all that? just to please my teachers? my parents? I remember being top on phisics class one year, YAY! NICE! what? what did I learn that year? dunno, don't remember, and don't even CARE.

BUT that was important, I learned something VERY IMPORTANT at school: I HATE CHEMESTRY, PHISICS AND GEOGRAPHY, and it was also at my school days that I got to know informatics and computing, and IT and found out I liked it ... school did it's job nicelly.

Just face it, children don't care for what they are learning, they will just memorize it. Be the education in this or that country better, the average will always be the same. Yes, those who want to learn, who excel, will get influenced in the education system quality, but the average people will just forget what they "so-called-learned" before the start of next term. All terms BTW always start with a "remembering last term" ... because everybody knows children will forget what they learned on the term before, even those who got an A.

So, why bash America, South-America, Japanese or [place-country-here] education style without looking what REALLY is important when you are talking about education: THE RESULT.

Japanese is considered to be 2 or 3 years ahead of the rest of the world in technology, culture, science and development.

Is their education better then the rest of the world because of that? NO, is their technology and development better because of the quality of their education? NO.

What makes a society and their people is basically their philosofies, goals and way of life. If one want to excel, they will with [put-country-here] education no matter how low graded it is.

Einstein sucked at math, and I bet his schools were not the best in the world either, did that matter? or was Einstein interest that got him to where he got?

Japanese are forced on a harsh competitive society, and because of that, they must try their best. NOT because their education is the world's top 1, but because their society is world's top 1 in harsh competitiviness.

IMHO, Japanese school system is PERFECT. They let children play, they let them worry about what they want and let them study what they like, and must pass the students to next term even if they suck. They will get plenty (more than enough) time to social activities, club activities, festivals, sports activities ... basically, WHAT MATTER FOR A CHILDREN. And, in the mean time, they will eventually see what they want to do with their lives by watching the classes that - as said here - suck - but at least do their part on showing each person all fields of human expertiese.

IMHO I would be even a better professional if my schools were like Japanese schools, because instead of attending stupid chemestry or literature classes that I always thought useless (and ... oh! they were after all!) I could be learning more about computers that was what I liked, and was what I obviously followed and graduated into. I would have used all those free "club / sports / festival / homestay" time to do what I wanted, which would be play or study what I want, and eventually will use, not what a 60 year old teacher thinks I must learn. Even if I was carefree and fooled around on 99% of that free time, those 1% that I actually studies what I LIKED would have meant a lot more than the 100% time I lost at [subject-I-dislike-and-forgot-here]

So ... this and that country school sucks, who cares? what is important is how the society estimulates you to learn your way into what you want to do with your life, and sorry to tell you, you won't find a better society at that as the Japanese - even too much, look at the suicide rates.

[Guess]

I think that going to school is a big waste of time. And the school system made sure that your time was wasted; otherwise, they wouldn't be doing their job.

I was disillusioned with the education system since I was like 9 or something. Back then, the whole school thing really puzzled me. I remember my teachers would assign projects like make a diarama of so and so, or do a science project or this and that. However, in the end, the amount of time i wasted on it really didn't matter. The stupid teachers would look at it for like 2 minutes, judge the damn thing, then give a grade out. Afterwards, the project will then be trashed.

After each episode, I would always ask myself, "what was the whole point?" All of that time, energy, and creativeness wasted on something so insignificant.

Henceforth, school became more pointless as I found that all of the stuff they were teaching me, I could have learned by myself or taken one or two classes at my leisure instead of going to school 8 hours a day, five days a week like a job.

College was the same thing, out of all the classes I've taken the important and useful classes didn't even amount up to one quarter of standard class taking (like about 4 classes). I could have taken those classes at a community college at my leisure.

And now my dad wants me to get an MBA... like hell no! I'm not gonna waste anymore of my time.

Now don't get me wrong, I think education is important. But there's a difference between education and schooling. Education is a life long process. A subject like history or something can't be crammed in one or two stupid quarters. It takes time to learn it and digest it. And I think learning is best when it is done at our own leisure when we are actually focused on it.

However, there is one good use for the schooling system and that is Social Climbing. People always like to show off their MBA's or Ph.D's and hear all the "oos and aahhs" from other people. For me though, its just a piece of paper. Shows off a person's stupidity more than anything else. Afterall, who in their right mind can stay in the school system for so freakin long to get those degrees! And afterwards, most of those Ph.D folks tend to slave for the school system some more as a professor grinding out thesis after thesis regardless of how stupid it is.

Ok i'm done ranting. Hope i didn't offend anyone. Just my personal opinion.

[Marblehead]

I think that going to school is a big waste of time. And the school system made sure that your time was wasted; otherwise, they wouldn't be doing their job.
.


Sound like someone needs to enlist!!! Only then will understand true stupidity, young man.

[akitaka]

It's only a waste of time when you make it so. Talk to your friends and then ask the teacher why he/she dislikes their job; chances are they will point in your direction. I think most of what teachers lack in empowerment derives from students just not putting out. This is because from child birth we're taught that it's a mandatory thing to get by in life. Another point you mentioned that I whole-heartedly agree with is that digesting that stuff is a long process; EVERY kid is different in learning methods. This is where teh education, as a SYSTEM, fails.

You can still have an unlikable person with a Ph.D. just as you could have an unlikable McDonald's fry-cook. Education has a loophole in spiritual developement, as well. Low self-esteem really isn't uncommon, at all.

However:
Shows off a person's stupidity more than anything else. Afterall, who in their right mind can stay in the school system for so freakin long to get those degrees! And afterwards, most of those Ph.D folks tend to slave for the school system some more as a professor grinding out thesis after thesis regardless of how stupid it is.
Stupidity, most certainly not. Abundance in MATERIAL knowledge? Sure. Ego boosting? Maybe.
But there a lot of Ph.D teachers I've met in Highschool who were the best teachers I've known, because they were able to think outside of the box a little more than their MBA counterparts. If they strive to get that high, sometimes they really to shine in the end. For myself, though, I can't imagine studying that long, either.
School is best reserved for those who learn well or have good motivation spans in a quiet, orderly environment.
Other people, such as kids with ADD, need more outdoor/natural stimulation to keep focus. I recall such a kid in my middle school; he would have to have someone make a big deal about his good achievements for him to stay focused, otherwise it just got boring.

Speaking of which, how DO Japanese schools tolerate children with mental disorders? I know my cousin in Nagano has autism, and lives in a colony/school for like-people. Apparently, she's doing well.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Elementary school kids with handicaps are given the option of going to a special school for handicapped kids, or to be sent to a regular school. The parents make the decision and the school has no say. If the parents want their autistic kid to be sent to a regular school, then the school has to accept that. Furthermore, the parents get to decide, against with the school having no choice in the matter, whether their kid should be in a regular class, or in the handicapped class in the regular school. So you can have an autistic kid in a regular class by some freakish parenting strategies.

The kids themselves are treated pretty well, take care of each other, and tend to be taken care of decently, but the problem is that in regular schools, the special ed teachers have no specialist training, only the slight bit of regular training that deals with special ed students. Teachers regularly rotate grades as well as schools, so this year's 4th grade teacher could be next year's special ed teacher, and vice versa.

[Guess]

Stupidity, most certainly not. Abundance in MATERIAL knowledge? Sure. Ego boosting? Maybe.
But there a lot of Ph.D teachers I've met in Highschool who were the best teachers I've known, because they were able to think outside of the box a little more than their MBA counterparts.
Out of all the professors I've met, and I've met quite a few (around 694 of them), only about 3 thought "outside the box." And I have to admit, those three professors were the best teachers I have met in my entire life. But I don't think that their education is what makes them unique, its more about their own personality--their openess to ideas and lack of conformity. The rest of the professors were just plain boring, lecturing in monotones as if they were zombies.

But then and again, I can't really blame professors for making the classes the way they are. It is afterall, the school system, once again, that dictates to them how they should act. For those of you who don't know, professors are paid by the research they conduct and the amount of journals and articles they put out every year; not by any means, how they teach a class or if the students learn or not.

However, for all my bashing of the school system, I think it serves it purpose.

[Joe]

Guess, where did you go to school?

Some people here keep talking about how worthless their school experience was, and I gotta say, maybe it was the school. I went to a public school, near Portland, one of the weirdest cities in the world (Honestly, you ain't got nothing on portland, we're like an american Amsterdam....) I loved my teachers, many of them thought outside the box, the counselors in that school actually gave a damn, the principals, and the vices were great people.

I honestly learned quite a lot from that school, hell I even learned a lot from taking a geography course, and I can say I do use what I learn from that class. Though, I just graduated, so my opinion might be biased, but yeah.

Nothing is stagnant at that school, it's constantly changing. The students sucked a lot super conservative ass, but the teachers were so liberal, it was great.

God I love portland...

Oh, *On topic* This goes to the JETs, or anyone who can answer it. What do you teach in there, specefically? Do you do cultural notes and exchanges? We know you play games, hurray games, but do you actually teach them why you would say this, or the reason behind a lot of things?

English isn't a great language for specefic ways of saying things. I could come up with 20+ ways of saying "The sky is blue." English is great for being able to say something in many different ways, and have slight undertones to the mood and way you said them, based on what you had said. Do the kids know that? Will they learn that?

[Guess]

^ ^
The UC system.

I'm mighty glad that not all schools are like mine.

[Joe]

The UC system?

[Dana]

Yeah I feel the need to chime in here along with Joe. I went to school in a smallish town in western New York state and I feel I learned quite a bit. I definitely remember alot from the History and Science courses I took there. The other subjects were well-taught, as well.

On topic, I am an ALT in Junior High School and a teacher by-myself in Elementary school here. In Junior High we focus alot on memorization because the students have to take this test to get into highschools and their scores depend on how well they do. Fortunately I have really forward-thinking english teachers who let me have a nice amount of freedom to do things I want. The ichinensei teacher (7th grade) wants to start teaching the kids phonics so that their pronunciation improves, which is not in the text books at all. The sannensei teacher (9th grade) lets me take ten minutes in each class to teach the kids a new English phrase thats more colloquial than what they learn from the text books (like "s'up? not much").

In elementary school I am a bit more frustrated because, while I do get to teach on my own and have a certain amount of freedom in that respect, I feel the whole thing is futile because there is no set cirriculum. Year after year, with how often the ALT changes, the kids end up hearing the same crap over and over. When I try to teach them phrases and sentences like "My favorite color is blue," the teacher will often insist its too advanced for them. They always try to get me to stick to vocab only, but as I have demonstrated a million times, these kids already KNOW all the colors, all the fruits and animals and days of the week, etc. I have had to be very un-japanese and insist on teaching what I want to teach. As a result I am pretty often left alone to do my thing, no teacher in class at all. For the most part, the elementary schools encourage you to just play games with the kids that involve english. I have incorporated a bit of American cultrue into this by teaching them games like Red Rover and Red Light, Green Light.

For the most part though, I would have to say that I really dont like the education system here. Too much emphasis is put into rote memorization for the sole purpose of passing a test. I feel like the kids dont ever actually connect with what they are learning on a personal level, thus have no desire to really take anything in.

[Harrogath]

first time postin so here goes....

The way i see it it doesnt really matter what kind of teaching the schools provide. Its more like if person wants to become more knowledgable, if you didnt learn anything from the school you attended then perhaps you shouldve gone to the library an taught yourself.Or perhaps enrolled into college earlier, i got bored with high school after my first year so i enrolled myself into harder classes at my community college. I learned things i wanted to learn, that i felt were important to learn. I didnt take classes like Calc, and astrophysics mind you, i studied things that are important to me. As of right now i have a degree in aerospace manufacturing, and a certificate as a gunsmith. and im only 20. an im not done yet.. :D

[Guess]

Harrogath I agree with you 100% that an education should come from libraries. That's why I go to the library all the time. It's like my one sanctuary in this world. :)

Anyways, Joe, the UC System is the University of California system. It consists of nine campuses altogether. Some are more prestigious than other like UCLA or UC Berkeley although, technically their all suppose to the be same. I go to college in 6 of the 9 campus, running around especially during summer time to other campuses to get a feel of the atmosphere there.

[akitaka]

the special ed teachers have no specialist training, only the slight bit of regular training that deals with special ed students.
If that's the only problem, then it's generally better than it is here, in Arizona, at least.
I failed to mention that the kid I knew back then (mentioned in the previous post) was often 'muzzled' with computer games; there would be Age of Empires on the PC, and whenever he got tremoulous on rare occaisions, he'd be let on for a half-hour, and would resume the lesson.
None of the teachers had experience with special-ed students.
Luckily, though, he graduated; I think the main factor was a fellow student that I knew, who really cared for the kid. For extra credit he did what some of the teachers were unwilling to do; learn WITH him.

That's kind of assuring to know, though, thanks for the info. I remember seeing snips of "Kinpachi Sensei" when my family popped in the tape, and I had to totally shake my head at the portrayal of student life. Hell, my Aunt in Nagano hated that show.

[Joe]

At my highschool, we had a very large special ed class (20+ I believe) I was in fact in sign language with them. Now, we did have specialists, and we did have good teachers with the students.

However, I have to say, theres only so long I can take having to spend my first class of the morning with a bunch of special education students, every other day.

I'm the person who always finds something funny and witty to say, whatever the occasion, so I often did. I usually got laughs, of which there were many. Go me. However, it's a bit disconserting when a good portion of the spec ed class is laughing too, despite they don't know what it means... Poor guys.

Heh, I was always getting lip for stuff like "Remember your audience, Joe." Or "Not in front of some of the students, Joe." Because many times they were inapropriate. They are, afterall, really just a bunch of 6 year olds.

I was actually amazed to watch how well they responded to sign language. There was one student, Derek, that, either wouldn't or couldn't talk. But every day, he'd raise his super bony fingers, shaking from some illness, and do his very best to sign the alphabet with the rest of the class.

I'd also like to note that if you're school has half decent spec ed teachers, don't hassle them in the halls. Dealing with special students on a daily basis is EXTREMELY taxing.