Government tells immigrants to abide by Australian law or get out.

[Jay]

Parliamentary Secretary for Multicultural Affairs, Andrew Robb, has backed Treasurer Peter Costello's push for those seeking Australian citizenship to adopt Australian values.

Mr Robb has made the remarks ahead of his meeting on Monday with the Prime Minister's Muslim advisory group.

In a speech on Thursday, Mr Costello said any dual citizen who does not embrace Australian values should have their Australian citizenship revoked.

He also raised concerns about Islamic law being imposed in Australia.

Yesterday, the president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils and Muslim advisory group chairman, Ameer Ali, said Mr Costello's comments are ignorant.

He says giving constant publicity to radical Muslims is not helpful and the Treasurer should stick to managing the economy.

"Why does he give importance to these tiny people? He quotes some imam, some name. Nobody's heard about this person. I think they have to come clean on this," he said.

"Are we going to embrace multiculturalism or are we going back to the White Australia Policy?

"That is the fear that I am having now, having listened to all these comments cropping up from the Government's side."

But in an interview with the ABC's AM program, Mr Robb says the Treasurer has said nothing offensive.

And he says he wants the Muslim advisory group to focus on the fact that many in the wider Australian community, including moderate Muslims, are concerned about the spread of terrorism associated with Islamic fundamentalism.

"I will come to that group with great good will and a sense of the difficulties that they confront as leaders within their communities, but we've got issues to deal with and I want them discussed and I want a game plan," he said.

"The overwhelming issue is that we need to ensure that anybody who is taking out citizenship in Australia who is wanting to commit themselves to Australia, shares the values that are core to being Australian.

"We can't have a situation where everyone's pussyfooting around the fact that there have been some terrible incidents in the last three or four years in the world with the September 11th, the Bali bombings, with the London bombings, and they have all grown out of that tiny fringe group of Islamic extremists and people are anxious and I suspect the overwhelming majority of the Islamic community in Australia is anxious."


http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200602/s1578289.htm

Ideas? Comments? Objections?

Personally I think that you can recognise whatever religion you care to. if you're a Muslim, visit your mosque every day, pray to your God. If you're something else, do whatever signifies you as a part of that religion.

Just behave while you're about it.

Same with any race really.

[Destiny]

First time I hear about that one. Is it an official suggestion or just your wistful thinking?

[Jay]

Yeah, look now - I forgot the link. :bang:

[Destiny]

I wrote the same thing in another thread, I think that freedom is not the same as can-do-whatevah-i-want, it carries a certain degree of responsibility for the consequences of your actions. On the othe hand, it is up to the government as a unifying institution to set example by being tolerant and dedicated at the same time. Emphasizing one single identity as the right one is not going to do any good. I cant talk specifically about Australia, but the world in general is getting too diverse for national-identity-frieks.

[slinky]

I wrote the same thing in another thread, I think that freedom is not the same as can-do-whatevah-i-want, it carries a certain degree of responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

True, and like Jay said, practice your religion/native culture if you like, but don't be a prat.

On the othe hand, it is up to the government as a unifying institution to set example by being tolerant and dedicated at the same time. Emphasizing one single identity as the right one is not going to do any good. I cant talk specifically about Australia, but the world in general is getting too diverse for national-identity-frieks.

Yes... and no. I think people are unable (or possibly just unwilling?) to separate national identity/conformity and religious/cultural. Some of this comes from the fact that many countries are, indeed, still homogenous.

I really can't speak about Australia but in the US I see the clash between the two. It's not that you can't speak your native language or practice your religion or whatnot. But also, people who go to another country have a reason to do so. THey should acknowledge that reason (not that the host country is necessarily better than their native land, but that for the moment, at least, it offers something that the homeland cannot) and respect that.

That means at least making an effort to find the balance between native and new culture. It's the same as simply visiting someone's home for dinner.

You're not going to eat over the sink, leave your dishes on the stove, scratch your nuts and rip one off... (OK, maybe some of you would) You're going to try to suss out how they do things at least a bit. If you're a vegetarian you may not eat the roast they prepared, but you're not going to skewer them for preparing it. You're going to balance what you want to do and what your hosts do.

I think it's perfectly fine for the Aussi govt to try to identify and retain that which is Aussie. Nationalistic? Maybe, but no more so than the immigrant. But I think it's perfectly fine for the immigrants to identify and retain that which they identify with provided it doesn't violate the laws of the new home. But both sides are going to have to give a bit - or go back to the "White Australia" which I don't really think is the way to go...

(As for Sharia - that's an interesting balance that the Orthodox Jews and the US Govt have been pushing and pulling on for years. But it really seems to boil down to this: If you choose to practice Sharia, do so but a Freedom of Religion defense would fail if it is used only to enable otherwise unlawful acts deemed so by the host country.)

[Roxie]

What're "Australian Values" and how the hell do you make that into a law?

[Destiny]

And I was just about to offer my apologies for killing yet another thread. :clap:

Slinky, I totally agree with you, there is just the problem of personal sentiments mixing with national politics. IMHO, a governments job is to create an environment in which people from different backgrounds, be they religious or national, can coexist peacefully. Which, of course, is too idealistic. When national identity in developed countries with a lot of immigrant influx becomes endangered or in other words hard to identify, governments tend to identify majority populations and endorse their principles. For example, Japan is one of the countries with smallest international population, I can testify on that one, and for generations the Japaneseness has been identical with ethnicity, which creates ridiculous situations. When the labour market started shrinking it became increasingly crear that foreign work force was needed to keep the economy growing. Instead, the Japanese government sought out 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd generation Japanese emigrant descendants, usually in Brazil or Peru, and gave out permanent resident status to these people. Now, you can imagine the shock that the Japanese people are feeling now that it turns out somebody whose great-grand dad was Japanese, has lived his whole life in Peru, speaks no Japanese and doesnt take his shoes before he enters the house... well :hat: so much for identity.

[Shadowknight]

I think that there was a news story awhile back where an enclave of Muslims in Sweden were effectively using Muslim law in their community as opposed to the Swedish law they are SUPPOSED to follow... like any other Swedish citizen. I can't remember the exact issue, but I think the controversy was because they were ignoring the country's laws in favor of their own.

[gyoza]

Yeah, in principle, whatever country you're a citizen of, you enjoy the benefits and follow the rules. Staying in a place you find 'comfortable' + not abiding by its laws = no go. But I wonder what they're referring to as Australian values.

[Jai]

Australian values would include not attacking the Dutch embassy because of a comic strip. Unfortunately we have crazy "australian" imams advocating that sort of crap...

The underlying issue is simple. Anyone who wants to be an Australian is MORE THAN WELCOME to come here. If you want to be a muslim, a catholic, a devil worshipping goat killer, thats ok too. We dont care if your white, black, yellow or pink with purple polka dots. BUT!

If you want to live in Australia but be Lebanese, you can just fuck back off to Lebanon, yo.

[paul]

Hehe, I got a chuckle out of the embassy business. They're subjected to extremism for commenting against extremism XD

[phagan]

If you want to live in Australia but be Lebanese, you can just fuck back off to Lebanon, yo.

That's the spirit! And by applying the same logic; if you want to live in Australia but be white, you can just fuck back off to Britain!

Yeah, that's some good thinking Dr Dipshit.

[Fuiru]

I take it that Jai is still hostile about the whole Cronulla incident

[KKF]

What a suprise that Jai is being ignorant.

[Frayed]

You can't revoke their citizenship simply because they are dual citizens. The law must be applied equally to all individuals.
Doesn't Costello see the logical fallacy in saying that individuals must 'integrate' into Australian society and be held accountable under Australian laws and then at the same time proposing a set of laws that apply only to a specific group? Is he advocating integration or separation?

[Jai]

That's the spirit! And by applying the same logic; if you want to live in Australia but be white, you can just fuck back off to Britain!

Yeah, that's some good thinking Dr Dipshit.

Nice moron. In that post, you showed that your reading comprehension skill is actually less than zero.

Anyone who wants to be an Australian is MORE THAN WELCOME to come here. If you want to be a muslim, a catholic, a devil worshipping goat killer, thats ok too. We dont care if your white, black, yellow or pink with purple polka dots.

Hello hello, that would be what I said. On a scale of 1-10 for stupid, you scored 12.

Hi KKF. Still having sex with your hand in your parents basement, between sessions of screaming "its all a racist plot! OMGWTFBBQ!" on forums I take it?


Ill say it again. If you want to be Australian (live by australian laws, cheer for australian sports teams, pay australian taxes) then come on down. If you want to blow up embassies, support holy wars, or riot in the streets when Greece loses to Italy in a soccer match played in Germany, why dont you just fuck off "home".

[phagan]

Ill say it again. If you want to be Australian (live by australian laws, cheer for australian sports teams, pay australian taxes) then come on down. If you want to blow up embassies, support holy wars, or riot in the streets when Greece loses to Italy in a soccer match played in Germany, why dont you just fuck off "home".

Don't try to wiggle your way out of this. You did not write "If you want to blow up embassies (...) why dont you just fuck off 'home'", you wrote "If you want to (...) be Lebanese, you can just fuck back off to Lebanon". These were your exact words. Notice any difference in these two statements, Adolf?

I'm going to go ahead and assume you do not, so allow me to dumb it down for you: you equated being foreign to being a fucking terrorist.

---

Besides, who the hell are you to say what is considered 'australian' and what is not? Last time I checked, it was precisely by blowing shit up and treating your fellow man like garbage that you guys aquired that country in the first place.

[kyaa the catlord]

phagan, I'm invoking Godwin's Law. You invoked Hitler, therefore you have lost this argument. Please keep trying.

[phagan]

Oh crap, I can't believe I fell for it. And to think I've stayed clean for so long... :-(

[Jai]

Don't try to wiggle your way out of this. You did not write "If you want to blow up embassies (...) why dont you just fuck off 'home'", you wrote "If you want to (...) be Lebanese, you can just fuck back off to Lebanon". These were your exact words. Notice any difference in these two statements, Adolf?

And ill stand by the statement. If you dont want to be Australian and follow Australian laws, dont come here.


I'm going to go ahead and assume you do not, so allow me to dumb it down for you: you equated being foreign to being a fucking terrorist.


No, I equated being Lebanese imam who supports attacking embassies because of comic strips to being a "fucking terrorist". Perhaps you should stop "dumbing everything down" and actually read what has been posted.

[phagan]

No, I equated being Lebanese imam who supports attacking embassies because of comic strips to being a "fucking terrorist".

No. You did not. But I can certainly see why you would want it look like that now.

How hard could it possibly have been to write "Lebanese imams" or "Lebanese madmen"? That is, if you really were making a distinction between being Lebanese and being a terror-supporting imam?

Which I strongly doubt you were.