Our Youth..

[Mogymog]

You know it's funny now a days, with kids having so many problems, dealing with so much.. Yet, where are the adults to help them at huh? In a soceity where federal/state employee's abandon children with abusive parents cause the neighbers and everyone thinks the parents are wonderful, yet do nothing to ensure the truth, they don't check for injuries, for mental problems, for nothing. They give off excuses like the childs just spoiled, or just trying to get attention, or mad at the parents.. Yet, there are children suffering because no one seems to give a damn...

So, what does a society, let alone a person supposed too do? I mean, sure we could kill the parents, as they don't deserve to live, but then that child is just taken away and put somewhere as bad as they where or worse. I don't know how these things are done in other countries, but in the US it's just, plain wrong how it's handled.

And I write this from personal experience as I have a friend who's going through this. Her mother finds it enjoyable to beat her, because the girl is very sickly, and state appointed people to ensure child safety told her she was a spoiled brat who just wanted to get her wonderful mother in trouble.. So, if we can't trust the state, or the feds, or no one. Should we just find vigilantee's and have ait or what?

What do you think we should do? Cause I'm all up for the murdering, beating, torture, removal of life from these parents, that don't deserve children or the right to life.

[drdan]

What do you think we should do? Cause I'm all up for the murdering, beating, torture, removal of life from these parents, that don't deserve children or the right to life.


Maybe you were the one was was screwed up as a youth? Do you think someone should have killed your parents?

The answer to the second question is "no". But the first question is still up in the air.

[ZaichikArky]

What do you think we should do? Cause I'm all up for the murdering, beating, torture, removal of life from these parents, that don't deserve children or the right to life.

you're a fucked up person. obviously mommy/daddy beat you when you were little or big or what the fuck ever. Well here is news for you- so did mine! My mom was abused as a kid and felt unwanted. ever since then she has had extreme tempermental problems that stem from her father's side. she still loses her temper all the damn time!

she used to beat me whenever she felt I did something wrong. She's a scary woman. However, I still love both my parents and never would want to do any kind of harm to them. Parents aren't perfect. Yeah, lets just kill any parent that fucks up! even if they regret it later on in life and apologize to their child! yeah. what a wonderful idea.

so please shut the FUCK up.

[Mogymog]

Obviously you don't GET it at all. I'm NOT talking about parents that fucked up, or that made a mistake. I'm talking about parents that TAKE out their problems on their children, that beat them black and blue, that hurt them on purpose. Kids that are already sickly, some of them that have illneses that a beating can cause death from.

Not to mention, if parents where anywhere near decent, they woudn't beat their children in the first damned place. Specialy not beatings that require the fucking emergency room, but wont take them, cause they are more worried about themselves being in trouble then their injured child. Those are who I'm talking about. But you apperntly seem to think it's ok to beat childre, and in some cases leave them for dead. Great for you.

[Kusoyaro]

I actually can understand what mogy is trying to say, even though it's very controversial, int he sense that the hypothetical vigilante can be a rather average citizen who has no experience with what to really do. A very close friend of mine was abused by his father and mother (not in the sense that he was beaten, as i was, by depressed parents), but that he was ABUSED, with wrenches from his father and nail-clippers from his mother. when he was 12, they tried to cut his tongue out for lying, that was when he came to school with bruises everywhere and stiches on his tongue. the teachers tried to intervene but nothing happened, so when he was 16, he left for his grandparents in germany. when he came back at 18, everything was fine for a while, and then got worse. all throuout his life he'd had social workers and psychiatrists and shit try tio council him, but since the law is rather ineffectual. My folks wnet over sometimes, too.
Anyway, he's gone now, i don't know where, but he's really fucked up, like he used to put cigars out on his arm and pick fights with random people and shit. But his sister, who's 14, is abused now. I'm so pissed, especially since the law does nothing. I hope he comes back and kills them. Fucking hell.

But then there are the cases in which children feel like they're being abused (well, they are, technically), when the parents are only disciplining them. My baby bro and sis (twins) are fucking useless, always whining about a slap. A SLAP! I used to get a fucking roilling pin in my face, literally. My dad tied my upside down oer the balcony and left me there for hours, once. Shit, hey get off easy.
But I digress, who is to say where teh line gets blurred? Certainly not all childlren, since society has begun to treat kids with as much respect and shit as adults. wtf, i say to that. anyway, the only true impartial witness is other adults. and when they fail to do anything, that's when things get fucked up, as you can see. so, either the system starts working, or people WILL begin taking matters into their own hands.

[paul]

Mogymog should never have any position of high authority in the government or military.

[gyoza]

So you're talking about messed-up abusive parents. Now I believe that if a parent is abusive, and seriously hurting the child's health/future, then the child should be taken and placed somewhere else.

1. This should only be done if the child wants to move. I know of children with messed-up parents who love their parents nevertheless. If the parent and child love each other then they should be counseled, not separated.
2. The above happens in an ideal world. How will you know if the kid is abused, or just being a brat? It's really different from case to case, and there's no way to be 100% sure all of the time. Things like this should be handled on a case-by-case basis, and not all of them will be handled correctly.

Final thoughts: Messed up some parents might be, who are you to judge if they should live or die?
Also, I'm not sure what your beef with the situation 'nowadays' is. If you look back a century or more ago, a lot of what parents did to their children would likely have been classified as 'abuse' today. In addition, there were absolutely no social structures in place to guard against this sort of thing. At least today we have one, flawed though it may be.

[Destiny]

I cant believe you guys really wrote that, Im still trying to think this is just some of me trying not to wake up in the morning.
My parent never beat me when I was little. I remember so vividly the only time my dad slapped me, he was feeling bad for days after that. My mom always says that if a parent has to fall back on violence in any form in order to dyscipline the child, than that is a failure of the parent. A child is every bit as capable of understanding that it did something wrong if it is properly explained. Im the good kid in the family and never really went out of line, but my brother was, and still is, very irresponsible and at 24 he still lives with my parents, doesnt have a degree, and a very vague idea of what he wants to do with his life. He still works though, and makes a contribution to the family not because somebody beat him to do it. As a child he was very self-confident and would even get to fight with an adult if the adult thought to discipline him for something he felt he was right about. He would fight and answer back to teachers and then fight again. And in the communist Bulgaria of that time it meant a lot of troubles for my mom and dad, yet they never so much as punched him.
What I am trying to say is, violence is never the answer to any problem, and of course I am not talking about self-defence. A child is always weaker than an adult and has less knowledge of the world and has no way of knowing that dad punched him because he had a hard day at work. Broken furniture, a fistfight at school, just sit down and talk about it. When adults break things in a shop for example, or get into a drunk fight in a pub, they pay for it, they get solitary confinement. Why not get the child to do the same? Do you beat people when they break something or when they have an argument with somebody, physical or not?
Children always love their parents, abusive or not. Deep inside, they have a need for a parental figure and they get attached to mom and dad even if they get punches out of it as well as hugs. That doesnt mean there isnt a problem.

[gyoza]

I actually have similar views to you, Destiny, in that I believe children can understand what they did wrong through explanation. However, there is no one 'right' way, and physical discipline can work better for some, as long as it remains physical discipline with explanation, and not taking out frustrations on the kid.

Anyway, there are ideal ways to bring up children, but practically, few of them are possible to enforce. What I think me (and the others) were responding to were Mogymog idea that bad parents should be tortured/killed.

[paul]

Yes, in the way he addressed a serious and controversial issue such as this, he has shown himself to be inconsiderate, and lacking in perspective. You said yourself violence isn't a solution to anything.

Of course there is many things that is wrong with how society deals with child abuse.
For example, on a news story a couple of months ago:
I forgot exactly how many, but it was 4 or 5 children, the youngest 2 years old. Under their parents' neglect, 2 died of starvation, including the youngest (think about a 2 year old, not knowing anything but hunger, and starving to death), so the government finds out, and sends them to their grandparents. In their custody, all the remaining children died.

Abusers often breed abusers, its a danger when the government don't check where they're sending kids.

Its hard to decide how to resolve things like this properly, and Mogymog's suggestion does not help at all.

[Stephy]

What do you think we should do? Cause I'm all up for the murdering, beating, torture, removal of life from these parents, that don't deserve children or the right to life.

I think? I think you may need to seek some help. Please, seek someone to speak this over with… let them help you with this outlook.


So, what does a society, let alone a person supposed too do? I mean, sure we could kill the parents, as they don't deserve to live, but then that child is just taken away and put somewhere as bad as they where or worse.

Certainly no child deserves to be beaten. Disciplined? Yes. Of ‘course. But your logic about death and how it should be put upon the parents who possibly abuse (may it be physically, physiologically, verbally, or even sexually) their children is just ghastly. Just as children do not deserve to be beaten, the parents do not deserve to die. No one deserves too really. A human life it very significant, to wish death on them you must have very deep hatred within.

A parent definitely has no right to keep the child in their custody no longer, but they should be killed? No. They need help, not to be killed. They need counseling. They need certain types of therapy and treatment.

In a soceity where federal/state employee's abandon children with abusive parents cause the neighbers and everyone thinks the parents are wonderful, yet do nothing to ensure the truth, they don't check for injuries, for mental problems, for nothing. They give off excuses like the childs just spoiled, or just trying to get attention, or mad at the parents.. Yet, there are children suffering because no one seems to give a damn...

Yes, it is very sad that children are beaten by parents and are mistreated, but there are special services doing their duty to help these children. Social services, social workers, teachers, friends, and family are there to help the situation.

Actually, the child would probably be taken more seriously, especially with the way they are separated from the parent and questioned and noted on anything that will make the social worker aware of the situation. This is a serious matter that is taken seriously. I have been confronted on numerous times by social workers. It is so very easy these days to file a report on abuse and have social workers visit the home and question. They do take many stern steps and will not close the case until they are assured 100% that the child is in a safe and caring environment.

Teachers are extremely worried about this (the caring teachers, anyway). They will file reports usually if they suspect things. They will confront the student if they feel things are out of place. Now this leaves the responsibility to the child if they want to reveal things at home and their personal life. This can be difficult at times… abuse is scary the child is not always going to be open about it, this of course leads to difficulty of helping the child. Don’t blame the “federal/state employees” or they people will not believe them and will only believe and trust the word of the parents, because that isn't true.

*Sigh… just those types of parents need help.

[ZaichikArky]

yeah. good job about making yourself more clear.

My mom beat me as a child. My dad was OCCASIONALLY violent againt me, but it was very, very rare for him to be, and he felt extremely guilty if he ever made me cry. Like, the next day he would buy me a present. This was the way it was done in Russia. WHen I grow up, if my kids are bad, they will receive a warning, then if they continue to do it, they will receive a spanking. Will this make me a terrible parent who "deserves" to die? Uh no. People do it all the time all over the world... violence in small amounts is good for children. it teaches them behavior in a respectable manner. I mean, I was a well-behaved kid overall... evenwith my ADHD I knew propper manners by the time I was like 4 or 5 years old!

[KujiInRetsu]

He's talking about the worst case-scenario kind of "parent" that no more cares for that child than a sadistic jailer treats POWs all the while throwing the Geneva Convention or any sort of moral code to the winds. This kind of parent is rare and likely has some problems of his/her own. It's all too easy to say this kind of person should simply be killed and be done with though; it's more than likely that this kind of person has not matured sufficiently to take on adult responsibilities and as such may be prone to childish tantrums expressed through an adult body-- a horrible sight to behold and far more devastating in consequence than an actual child's tantrums.

[Destiny]

I actually have similar views to you, Destiny, in that I believe children can understand what they did wrong through explanation. However, there is no one 'right' way, and physical discipline can work better for some, as long as it remains physical discipline with explanation, and not taking out frustrations on the kid.

Anyway, there are ideal ways to bring up children, but practically, few of them are possible to enforce. What I think me (and the others) were responding to were Mogymog idea that bad parents should be tortured/killed.

I respect peoples right of opinion, yet I dont think punching beats love, respect and communication for my top methods, excuse the pun. Maybe Im too soft-hearted, but youll have a hard time finding somebody Id rather hit to persuade. Then again, thats just me.
And maybe Mogymog was being a tad methaphorical? I understand that when a person feels personally involved he or she can say or think in more intense terms than when he or she is detached from the situation. Im just speculating here.

As for ideal ways, it is always harder to persuade somebody verbally than with force, it takes more consideration and effort to see the situation from the other perspective. If you enforce something on anybody it is going to feel forced-in, bad pun again.

[Hatsumomo]

I don't know. With some of the tales of abuse I have read (the name Tesslynn O'Cull comes to mind), I'd vote for torturing the so-called "parents" that did the abuse. Especially if the abuse resulted in the death of the child.

Look up Tesslynn O'Cull and tell me that her mother and mother's boyfriend deserve to continue breathing.

[Stephy]

Look up Tesslynn O'Cull and tell me that her mother and mother's boyfriend deserve to continue breathing.

Also read, "A Boy Called It." (and other books by the same author.)

[Destiny]

I guess this was directed at my pacifistic attitudes. There are many questions like, would u kill Hitler if u could go back in time. My answer is - I cant, I cant go back in time and correct the wrongs, I cant bring that little girl back from the grave, I cant delete the memories. What I can do is have children and treat them with the respect they deserve, and do my best to help people who didnt get enough respect and love where they should have. I am not God (btw, Im not religious, I use the word as an allusion here), I am human and I dont want to inflict more pain than there is already in this world.

And yes, I do realize that I sound like a sect member preaching, but there is no help with that when Im in my Good Cop moods :rolleyes:

[CrazyAce86]

I get it.

It upsets me.

The anger at feeling helpless, the frustration with people just saying it's all your fault, the fear that it'll happen again and you don't know when, the confusion because you don't know why, and the sheer, complete rage that you bottle up inside because it has nowhere else to go.

Then you explode. Maybe on your abusers; maybe on someone else. Someday, somehow, you explode, because there's no room left inside to bury that anger, frustration, fear, confusion, and rage.

You take it out on someone or something else, just like your abusers did-- and the cycle of violence continues.

No one there's to help you, to encourage you, to tell you that you can do it-- you can get away, you're strong enough to make yourself a better person, to do better than what you know. You want to, but every time you try you get shoved back into place, and eventually you lose hope and just stop caring.

And the cycle of violence continues.

Some can break free, but most can't. Some women can get away from abusive husbands; most can't. Some kids can get away from abusive parents or guardians; most can't. At least those women have the legal status of an adult-- children have no legal standing. They run away, they're dragged back; they cry foul, they're ignored or told to stop vying for attention from the "adults"; they stay, they go through hell.

Abuse is both mental and physical. Some kids are slapped around; others are put down and verbally degraded; a few have both. And they have nowhere to go and no one that will even give them a chance.

We're a society that turns a blind eye to the ugly things in life. We want fantasy, not reality.

And that upsets me.

But what saddens me is those on here who believe the fantasy. No, correction, it sickens me, disgusts me, and makes me appalled.

[ZaichikArky]

you guys should read "a child called it". most depressing book ever : (. I read the sequels to it too.

[Anubis Nine]

I do believe there's a problem in our society. I'll give you all a real life example.

There's a family with four children that people have called child services on many a time. Their eldest son has called child services before. But regardless I'll give some back up information.

The woman beats and does not care for her children, and that was basically how it was described to me.

The child serivces at one time, after the eldest son called them... CALLED THE MOTHER TO ASK HER IF THIS WAS TRUE.

They *will* not take these children away from their mother. And it disgusts me.

There are agencies who take adopted children away from their most beloved grandparents because they are too old to care for children.

What's the hold up?

It's not on a matter of torture, but we need to be more vigilant in going after these people and getting the children away. And yet even then there's a problem because they don't often have anywhere actually safe to go. Two people I know were abused in foster care homes and former tenants of ours were cheating the welfare system with three foster daughters while the male prescence in the household was a coke addict.

I'm impressed with North America's answer to childabuse. *rolls eyes*

[Bob]

I get it.

It upsets me.

The anger at feeling helpless, the frustration with people just saying it's all your fault, the fear that it'll happen again and you don't know when, the confusion because you don't know why, and the sheer, complete rage that you bottle up inside because it has nowhere else to go.

Then you explode. Maybe on your abusers; maybe on someone else. Someday, somehow, you explode, because there's no room left inside to bury that anger, frustration, fear, confusion, and rage.

You take it out on someone or something else, just like your abusers did-- and the cycle of violence continues.

No one there's to help you, to encourage you, to tell you that you can do it-- you can get away, you're strong enough to make yourself a better person, to do better than what you know. You want to, but every time you try you get shoved back into place, and eventually you lose hope and just stop caring.

And the cycle of violence continues.

Some can break free, but most can't. Some women can get away from abusive husbands; most can't. Some kids can get away from abusive parents or guardians; most can't. At least those women have the legal status of an adult-- children have no legal standing. They run away, they're dragged back; they cry foul, they're ignored or told to stop vying for attention from the "adults"; they stay, they go through hell.

Abuse is both mental and physical. Some kids are slapped around; others are put down and verbally degraded; a few have both. And they have nowhere to go and no one that will even give them a chance.

We're a society that turns a blind eye to the ugly things in life. We want fantasy, not reality.

And that upsets me.

But what saddens me is those on here who believe the fantasy. No, correction, it sickens me, disgusts me, and makes me appalled.

Those arent comparable. A woman goes back back to an abusive relationship out of choice, because of stupidity. A child doesn't have a choice

[Destiny]

I get it.

But what saddens me is those on here who believe the fantasy. No, correction, it sickens me, disgusts me, and makes me appalled.

CrazyAce, read my signature. I dont believe. I think Ive seen some appaling things in my life and have felt helpless once too many times. I once told one of my friends that I cant believe that people dont care and that I cant stop caring and that it hurts so much to care. He replied that there is a difference between caring and going down because of all the shit around. I said it before and I will say it again, I am not God. And I dont believe you are. Id be the front cheerleader for the magician that will whipe out his magic stick and will fix everything that is bad. But there is none. That doesnt make the shit less shitty. But I make my own Destiny by making my choices, and that is everything I can do and everything I am doing.

[Annoying MSN Person]

I am more worried for this person because you consider yourself their friend. A young girl, somewhat traumatised, looking to mogy for help?

Yeah right.

(2 people might get this)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/pania/Tui.jpg

[PopCulturePooka]

Yeah.

Agree with bubbles.

We need to look at the source of this rant and what he thinks is one of his god given rights.

[h2orowe]

I believe TRULY abusive parents should all just be lined up and shot. The ones that value their lives above that of their offspring, and overall neglect/abuse/treat them like shit. NOT the ones that hit them, but the ones that just keep them alive to torture them.

My friend, although his dad doesn't deserve to die (he deserves jail time), has an abusive dad. His dad has driven him home drunk before, and raced a train, almost crashing into the train. He has put ciggerates out on my friend's arm. He has beaten the shit out of him before. My friend is too scared to go to any authority figures, because his dad is in a major gang in this area, and if he gets him arrested, the gang will go after him and his sister/mother. The mother and sister don't know about the abuse, but my friend just keeps his mouth shut. My friend is a wrestler, and a good one at that, and he fights back at least.
His dad deserves MAJOR jail time for that.

[Mogymog]

Funny, how you make a serious comment, serious thread and ask something. And then some nitwit immature idiots like Bubbles and Pooka have to make asshole comments. yeah, I have friends under 18, so what. And I have ASKED you to leave me alone and stop harrasing me Pooka. How you can take something serious like child abuse and turn it into a joke to attempt to make me look bad is just sad.. I feel very sorry for you two, I really do.

As for Shy, you are very nieve in that part. If only it was that clear, and happy. More then 50% of all child abuse in this country is never lookd at by social services or any of those so called groups. And of the percentage that is, most of it is ignored and treated like it's no big deal cause the parents say they do nothing wrong nad never touched their child.. The rules and punishments need to be harsher, so people will do whats right and help children that need it.

[Praetorian]

CHILD ABUSE STATISTICS

In 1999, an estimated 3,244,000 children were reported to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies as alleged victims of child maltreatment. Child abuse reports have maintained a steady growth for the past ten years, with the total number of reports nationwide increasing 45% since 1987 (Nation Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse (NCPCA) 2000 Annual Fifty State Survey).

Neglect represents the most common type of reported and substantiated form of maltreatment. In 1996, 25 states provided the following breakdown for reported cases: 62% involved neglect, 25% physical abuse, 7% sexual abuse, 3% emotional maltreatment and 4% other. For substantiated cases, 31 states gave the following breakdowns: 60% neglect, 23% physical, 9% sexual, 4% emotional maltreatment and 5% other (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

In 1999, an estimated 1,401 child abuse and neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

According to information from at least 18 states that were able to report the type of maltreatment which caused the child's death for at least one of the past three years. Approximately 54% of the deaths were due to physical abuse while 43% resulted from neglect. Young children remain at high risk for loss of life. Based on data from all three years, this study found 82% of these children were under the age of five while an alarming 42% were under the age of one at the time of their death (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

The U.S. Advisory Board reported that near fatal abuse and neglect each year leave "18,000 permanently disabled children, tens of thousands of victims overwhelmed by lifelong psychological trauma, thousands of traumatized siblings and family members, and thousands of near-death survivors who, as adults, continue to bear the physical and psychological scars. Some may turn to crime or domestic violence or become abusers themselves (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995 report, A National's Shame.)"

The Third National Incidence Study (NIS-3) of child maltreatment released by the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect (NCCAN) in the fall of 1996. Note: NIS-4 is underway and is scheduled for completion Feb 2008.

The NIS is congressionally mandated under the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA). The NIS collects data on children who were investigated by child protective services (CPS) agencies and on children seen by community professionals who were not reported to CPS or who were screened out by CPS without investigation.

The NIS studies have been published on data collected in 1979 (NIS-1), in 1986 (NIS-2), and in 1993 (NIS-3).

The NIS uses two definitions of child maltreatment: the Harm Standard, under which children are counted as maltreated only if they have already experienced demonstrable harm; and the Endangerment Standard, under which children are counted if they have experienced maltreatment that puts them at risk of demonstrable harm.

The NIS-3 gathered data from a nationally representative sample of 5,612 community professionals in 842 agencies serving 42 counties.

Finding of the NIS-3:

* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

CPS investigated only 28% of children whose maltreatment met the Harm Standard.
Although the percentage of children whose abuse or neglect was investigated declined, the actual number of children investigated remained constant.
CPS investigated only 26 percent of the seriously injured and 26 percent of the moderately injured children.

Girls are sexually abused three times more often than boys.

Boys are at a greater risk of serious injury and of emotional neglect than are girls.

The incidence of fatally injured girls declined slightly, while the incidence of fatally injured boys rose.

Found no race differences in maltreatment incidence.

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

* More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
* More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
* Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
* 60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.


(Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect, September 1996 and Reid, T. (1996). News NIS-3 Data. APSAC Advisor, 9 (3).)
Children whose parents abuse drugs or alcohol are put at a greater risk for violent victimization (National Commission on Children, 1993).

With the exception of homicide, children and youths suffer more victimization than do adults in virtually every category, including physical abuse, sibling assault, bullying, sexual abuse, and rape (American Psychological Association Commission on Violence and Youth, 1993).

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers (National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992).

In over 9000 divorces in 12 states, child sexual abuse allegations were made in less then 2% of contested divorces involving child custody (Association of Family Conciliation Courts, 1990).

Survivors:
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today (Forward, 1993)

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships (Browne & Finkelhor, 1986).

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

Guilt is experienced by almost all victims (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

If a child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict (Courtois & Watts, 1982).

Adults who viewed domestic violence in the home as children have a greater difficulty holding jobs, maintaining relationships with their peers and have a higher risk of developing mental health disorders (Patterson, 1992).

Men appear to be prone to blame themselves for any sexual abuse they may have experienced as children (Mendel, 1993.)

Abusers:
The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence (National Institute of Mental Health, 1988).

It is estimated that approximately 71 % of child sex offenders are under 35 and knew the victim at least causally. About 80 % of these individuals fall within normal intelligence ranges; 59% gain sexual access to their victims through, seduction or enticement (Burgess & Groth, 1984).

S tress indicators such as unrealistic expectations of a child, unemployment and low self-esteem are important characteristics in perpetrators of child abuse (Health & Human Services, 1993).

Approximately 60 % of the male survivors samples report at least one of their perpetrators to be female (Mendel, 1993).

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From these statistics (although rather outdated) we can see that Mogymog brings up a valid point that child abuse is far more apparant than most people think, and that it does (and always has) posed a legitimate concern for our society. In a recent Dutch study, we learned that per average classroom two children are abused. I do think it is sickening. I do not have much more to add to this conversation, except that I agree with both Pooka and Bubbles in saying that I am concerned about your relationship with young children, and I agree with Shy in that child abusers need counselling and help, NOT torture and abuse. Many of these people have been abused themselves when they were a child. I really don't think some of them can help it, at least not alone. They need help, and so do their children. I'd go as far as to say that child abuse should be one of the main concerns in our western society. I somewhat understand your reaction - it hurts you to see someone you care about get abused. Maybe you yourself have been abused when you were a child. But lining up and shooting, or even killing the people abusing their children is NOT the solution. That is simply barbaric.

[PopCulturePooka]

So, its wrong to be worried that a 30 something guy with pedophilic tendencies has under 18 female friends who are emotionally vulnerable from abusive backgrounds?

[Mogymog]

No, cours not. But see that in lies the failure of your attempted harrasment and ignorance.. For see 1> I am not in my 30's.. 2> I am not some sicko that preys on emotional disturbed people let alone children. 3> The persons age means nothing. They are being abused and HURT, and all you can come up with is some immature cracks about me being some kind of child molestor. 4> This is General Discussion, not your litlte Padded walls room forum. So kindly take your insults, pathetic attempts at harrasment, and immaturity there.

[setrict]

Killing, torture, beating. None of these is going to make a good parent out of a monster. If you want to help the child, find out exactly what's happening, document it, and let the authorities do what they can. You don't have to become a violent vigilante to take an active role.

[ZaichikArky]

Killing, torture, beating. None of these is going to make a good parent out of a monster. If you want to help the child, find out exactly what's happening, document it, and let the authorities do what they can. You don't have to become a violent vigilante to take an active role.

Way to take care of parental problems on your own. If the authorities think I'm "abusing" my children by spanking them occasionally, I will sue them. So much for the authorities?

[Hatsumomo]

I've read A Child Called 'IT' many times and it disgusts me how Pelzer's parents behaved towards him.

We live in a society where a parent can be prosecuted for swatting their child on the butt as a disciplinary measure, but I just recently read in the news that a woman repeatedly and systematically abused her 11 kids and she's gettting off without even a slap on the wrist.

We live in a society where the state will put a child back into an abusive home because they value keeping a family together above the quality of life of the child. Then when the child ends up dead, they say, "We couldn't have possibly seen that happening. Never again will we let this happen." Then next month we see the same thing happen.

We live in a society where the leading cause of death of a child ages 0-5 is murder at the hands of their own parents.

IMHO, Child Protective Services in the U.S. is in major need of a overhaul. We have untrained and underpaid social workers with massive caseloads. Their caseloads are so big that they end up ignoring or glossing over the more severe cases and then a child dies and the social worker prosecuted for neglecting his/her work. The system in Florida has let so many children slip through the cracks that a little girl went missing and it was 16 months before anybody noticed. She's been missing for over four years now.

[Decade]

Yes theres some needed changes in the system

...but wow, you got problems man