Speaking Japanese on the phone

[Chinpokomon]

(I mentioned a similar topic on the Japanese thread, but anyway)

When I studied abroad, my host mother would always make any calls which required Japanese for me, so I got away without having to do it to often. Now I'm not so lucky.

I just made an orthodontist appointment on the phone.

I'm sure that the person answering the phone was probably like "Oh no, a gaijin!" as soon as I started talking (if not from pronunciation, from my name), but I tried to put thoughts like that from my head.

However, I'm happy to say that for the most part I'm able to communicate without a hitch. Spelling my name was probably the hardest part. Oh, and describing the kanji for my address was fun too.

Anyway, I actually had an adrenalin high when I hung up the phone. :joytear:

It was actually a lot like when you're calling a girl you like, and you dial half the numbers before you realize you don't know what you're going to say and hang up. Then when you finally call, it all seems to work out, and when you're done, you're just really happy.

So, should I assume that when she said "I'm sorry, could you repeat that", It was because she's got a lot of screaming kids in the waiting room (which I could clearly hear on my end), or it was my poor pronunciation?

気になるな。。。

[laggedreaction]

I just made an orthodontist appointment on the phone.

Orothodontist in Japan? :rofl: Now I know you're just making this up...

[Chinpokomon]

You think a city the size of Tokyo doesn't have any good orthodontists?
:rofl:

*Forsees a bad future for this thread* :meh:

[laggedreaction]

You think a city the size of Tokyo doesn't have any good orthodontists?
:rofl:

*Forsees a bad future for this thread* :meh:

Maybe there are a few, but clearly not enough!

Anyway, you know it was just an allusion to the fact that people in Japan seemingly have the worst teeth in the developed world and even worse than several 3rd world countries.

I always found it strange how bad teeth are so acceptable and so common here.

[Chinpokomon]

Maybe there are a few, but clearly not enough!

Anyway, you know it was just an allusion to the fact that people in Japan seemingly have the worst teeth in the developed world and even worse than several 3rd world countries.

I always found it strange how bad teeth are so acceptable and so common here.
Well, braces are really expensive here (like $10K), and insurance doesn't cover any of it, from what I hear.

I'm hoping that it will be a lot cheaper for me since I've already got them on, and just need someone to tweak them once a month.

Now, about speaking Japanese on the phone....

[羽之助]

Yeah, I've seen poor 6-year-old kids with BLACK, infected teeth because of no dental care.

Speaking Japanese on the phone? I still hate doing it but I'll do it if I have to. Spelling my name in katakana is the only thing that takes time, really. This only applies for when I'm calling the post office or whatever - talking to friends is no prob of course.

Good for you for making an appointment by yourself, man.

[Chinpokomon]

Good for you for making an appointment by yourself, man.
Yeah, I'm a big boy now. :clap:

[BluZytrix]

If you thought talking to the dentist was bad, try ordering fiber optic internet on the phone. You have to set up construction dates, go over the billing information and all that happy stuff. Only after a months time and about 5 calls did everything work out. But all the pain is well worth the ability to upload and download at over 4mb/s. :)

[Daddaluma]

I'm generally ok with talking on the phone. When I had major problems though was when I had Yahoo BB DSL installed and then it stopped working. I spent a good 3 hours over the course of 2 days on the phone with tech support.

3 hours of the most obsequiously polite japanese imaginable coupled with a whole host of topics I didn't have a clue how to talk about . . . it sucked.

The end result was me canceling Yahoo BB and going with another DSL service.

That ended about 8 months later when they cut me off for illegal downloading . . .

So now I'm back with Yahoo BB again.

[4letterwords]

F*ck talking in Japanese on the phone... F*ck it up the ass!

I hate it... it's really hard for me... I mishear everything!!!

I can't remember exactly, but I had a situation where I misheard 一回 as いたい and the whole convo was f*cked from there.

[Ozero]

in a semi related note- in vancouver canada, we have a large immigrant chinese population...

one of the hardest things is that often, they're so unsure about thier english, that they shyly mumble everything, especially on the phone.. and of course, that just makes it all harder...

edit-typo

[Kagemitsu-Daigo]

Yeah, I've seen poor 6-year-old kids with BLACK, infected teeth because of no dental care.

..........what the heck? Does Japan have bad toothpaste or is it really expensive or something? =/ I havent been to the dentist a day in my life but my teeth are fine.

I just dont know what to say. I'm speechless. I dont see how their teeth can get so bad.

[jindojim]

What scares me so much about using the phone is that you're supposed to use keigo. And that is definitely not my forte. Which is why I'm terrified of making phone calls in Japanese. Especially if my gf's parents happen to pick up. I stutter out something ending in 'irrashaimasuka', but they never understand me.

[Pierrot le Fou]

There are dentists up the wazoo in Japan, and many dental treatments are incredibly cheap (because they are insured under national health coverage), but there are a few caveats...

Because it's covered by insurance, the dentist gets more money the more times you come, rather than getting more money for doing the job properly in one go, so you'll have to go back twice or three times even for basic stuff (like filling a cavity) so that the dentist can make decent money.

Secondly, most people just don't go. Unlike the US, there is not a culture of going in for teeth cleaning on a regular basis. So rather than going in and getting everything checked out and cleaned up every 6 months, you have everyone just waiting until their teeth hurt, and THEN going in.

Another problem is that the water here isn't fluoridated. That means that drinking water won't help your teeth (which is a bonus in the US).

Finally, it isn't as socially unacceptable to have a big bunch of yellow teeth here (as it is in the US), so people don't feel the need to change it, since it's not considered a problem. Y'dig?

[kitsunepixie]

I hate speaking on the phone in any language, since I prefer talking face-to-face. It's part of my job, though. :bored:

[OaklandZoo]

If you thought talking to the dentist was bad, try ordering fiber optic internet on the phone. You have to set up construction dates, go over the billing information and all that happy stuff. Only after a months time and about 5 calls did everything work out. But all the pain is well worth the ability to upload and download at over 4mb/s. :)

Are you telling me you got Hikari and you are only getting 4mb/s? My ADSL is still faster than that.

By the way, how's the Wal-Mart style Seiyu over there in Niiza? I've never visited the store but I am somewhat curious.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I think he means MB, not Mb. So 32 instead of 4.

And I don't mind speaking on the phone anymore. I'm sure I'm rude, whatever, but I generally get my point across in a roundabout keigo-esque way. I do it more by 'fuinki' (feel) than by, y'know, actually properly knowing how to speak properly on the phone.

'Sumimasen ga, PLF desu kedo, matsuoka kakaricho ha irasshaimasu ka?'
'Aa, Matsuoka san, itsumo oseiwa ni narimasu...'

I rarely make my point until about 2 minutes into the call, instead spelling out everything that doesn't matter in great depth and keigo first. Drives people nuts because I don't do it properly, I'm sure, but hesitation is good, eh? Can't kill me for trying!

[Chinpokomon]

Ok, good to see I'm not the only one that has a hard time.

I'm also not sure what level to use for keigo. I just use teinei-go, and call it a day.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It depends on who you're calling for what, but generally if you ask something, you do it reluctantly, and use super-keigo. If you're just discussing details, normal keigo is okay. When you say good-bye, you go back to super-keigo...

For instance, "ano, sumimasen ga, yoyaku ga shitain desu keredomo..." is a-okay.

"yoyaku ga shitai desu" is less okay.

"yoyaku shiou" is not okay.

It takes mad amounts of time G-funk. You get used to it. "moshi moshi, dai san chuu gakkou no eigo shidou joshu desu kere domo...

...aa, itsumo oseiwa ni narimasu...

ano, sumimasen ga, horie shacho ga irasshaimasu deshou ka?"

or somesuch nonsense. I hate it. HATE IT.

Stupid keigo. I will beat it.

[erbiumfiber]

The only problem you might find with an orthodontist in Japan is that, if your braces don't match the kind they use here, the correct tools might not be available. When I switched orthodontists in the US I had to find a different one because my braces were different from his braces. And heaven help you if they're done in English units rather than metric units.

Still, they might be able to improvise.

Anyway, if he/she is any good I wouldn't mind a recommendation. I still wear retainers (had adult braces even AFTER having had them as a kid) and my lower retainer broke on the plane- I had it fixed at a clinic in San Diego but it still doesn't really fit correctly.

But, congrats on your successful phone call. I screw up even when I call my Japanese school (RARELY) to tell them I will miss a class...

[Digital Masta]

I didn't even know Chinpokomon was in back in Japan...where the hell have I been.

[Frankey-eh]

I hate it. HATE IT.

Stupid keigo. I will beat it.

I. Agree.

well... that's because it's the ONLY thing that doesn't come naturally to me. But don't worry if you aren't as good as the person on the other side. Most company employees don't think up keigo on the spot either. They just memorize their "employee manual" which lists all the phrases they need to use for all occasions.

As for kids and teeth... Japan actually isn't as bad as you think. We get taught about cavities. And in elementary school, we had dentists come visit the school and check each student's teeth. If you have NO cavity, you get a gold award. If you have less than two cavities, you get a silver award. Also, they give us pink pills that you chew on, and then brush your teeth like normally. Then, after you rinse, the pink stuff stays where you haven't brushed, allowing you to know which parts you need to brush more. And ALSO, in preschool, they teach us that you should brush your teeth three times a day, each teeth should be brushed three times, each "brush" consists of three strokes back and forth.

I won't say people don't care. If you have good teeth, then you get praised for it. It's just that, people don't make a big deal out of it you have bad teeth. But actually... I've seen scarier teeth in America among pre-braces kids than in Japan. Won't you say, American kids NEED braces more than Japanese kids? Maybe people spend so much effort and money on their teeth that they feel pride for it, and so when others who don't have as good a teeth as they do, they feel like they need to point and laugh...and maybe even implicitly ask for praise on their own set of teeth... that's how it seems to me.

[Digital Masta]

Won't you say, American kids NEED braces more than Japanese kids?

How would most of us even know that?

and so when others who don't have as good a teeth as they do, they feel like they need to point and laugh...and maybe even implicitly ask for praise on their own set of teeth... that's how it seems to me.

I don't think its really point and laugh...its more like "Damn she needs to fix her teeth"

[kitsunepixie]

I notice that Japanese people do seem to brush and floss their teeth more than people do in America, but Japanese dental products (and water) contain less fluoride than the American counterparts. I had my very first cavity when I lived in Tokyo a few years back, and I hadn't changed my dental hygeine at all...I was just using Japanese products instead. :gloomy: This time around I stocked up on a lot of toothpastes from home, and they even recommend bringing your own in the pre-departure JET manuals...

If you pop open Japanese fashion magazines, you'll find tons of info about whitening treatments and ect. that you can buy on your yearly trip to Hawaii...I actually had my coworkers peppering me with questions on what toothpastes and such to buy when they go to visit the States.

[Frankey-eh]

I don't think its really point and laugh...its more like "Damn she needs to fix her teeth"
they say you notice the most in others what you are most self-consciously aware about yourself... (I'm sure this was said more poetically)

[kitsunepixie]

It's kind of a running gag for Americans to make fun of the teeth of people in the UK too, Rika... :innocent:

[Frankey-eh]

It's kind of a running gag for Americans to make fun of the teeth of people in the UK too, Rika...

...so doesn't that support my theory that Americans are just too darn obsessed with their teeth? *points to my paraphrased quote below*

please don't feel like you need to approach me with a spear again. This is just an innocent question. I'm sure there's a better way to say it... but I don't know how.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Get a Sonicare toothbrush if you come to Japan. And make sure that your toothpaste has フッ? (I don't remember the kanji, but fluoride starts with the 'fu, little tsu' in katakana).

They say bring your toothpaste in the JET orientation manual because they're idiots. Toothpaste in Japan has plenty of fluoride and whatnot. The water doesn't have any. Just buy aquafresh if you're worried.

[kitsunepixie]

...so doesn't that support my theory that Americans are just too darn obsessed with their teeth? *points to my paraphrased quote below*

please don't feel like you need to approach me with a spear again. This is just an innocent question. I'm sure there's a better way to say it... but I don't know how.

I'm sorry if my previous comment sounded like I was "approaching you with a spear"...it's hard to convey emotion through the Net. :duh: I was also agreeing with you about how anal Americans are about tooth care.

And fluoride is フッ化/フッ素.

[Chinpokomon]

I didn't even know Chinpokomon was in back in Japan...where the hell have I been.

Not on the Japanese thread ;)

It depends on who you're calling for what, but generally if you ask something, you do it reluctantly, and use super-keigo. If you're just discussing details, normal keigo is okay. When you say good-bye, you go back to super-keigo...

I think what I call teineigo, you call keigo, and what I call keigo, you call super keigo.

And fluoride is フッ化/フッ素.
Damn straight, mother fukka.

[Pierrot le Fou]

teineigo is also keigo. keigo includes teneigo, sonkeigo, and kenjogo. basic teneigo is just adding 'masu' and 'desu.' sonkeigo is 'meshiagaru' and 'irasshau.' kenjogo is 'itadaku' and uh, errr, uh, 'mousu'.

What I call super-keigo is using standard teneigo when there is no kenjogo/sonkeigo to say what you want (as well as double-politing things, like 'PLF to moushimasu desu keredomo' as there's both a 'masu' and a 'desu'), and using kenjogo and sonkeigo along with it (instead of 'imasuka' using 'irasshaimasuka' and whatnot).

Speech Japanese. Also the intonation changes.

[4letterwords]

Wake me up before you keigo...

[Chinpokomon]

teineigo is also keigo. keigo includes teneigo, sonkeigo, and kenjogo. basic teneigo is just adding 'masu' and 'desu.' sonkeigo is 'meshiagaru' and 'irasshau.' kenjogo is 'itadaku' and uh, errr, uh, 'mousu'.

What I call super-keigo is using standard teneigo when there is no kenjogo/sonkeigo to say what you want (as well as double-politing things, like 'PLF to moushimasu desu keredomo' as there's both a 'masu' and a 'desu'), and using kenjogo and sonkeigo along with it (instead of 'imasuka' using 'irasshaimasuka' and whatnot).

Speech Japanese. Also the intonation changes.
Hmm, you're right.
The way I learned it, we learned teineigo for everything first, and then our professor said we were going to learn keigo, so I associated keigo as something different than teineigo. Which, it appears, is not the case.

[erbiumfiber]

Get a Sonicare toothbrush if you come to Japan. And make sure that your toothpaste has フッ? (I don't remember the kanji, but fluoride starts with the 'fu, little tsu' in katakana).

They say bring your toothpaste in the JET orientation manual because they're idiots. Toothpaste in Japan has plenty of fluoride and whatnot. The water doesn't have any. Just buy aquafresh if you're worried.

Yeah, they've got fluoride but not super-duper anti-tartar, whitening, breath freshening...etc. toothpaste. I think American toothpaste rocks...also because I just ran out of my favorite toothpaste and my teeth just don't feel the same...

[Boguespierre]

I think Pierrot le Fou has it just right.

I've always found that if you throw in as much keigo as possible at the start, the person on the other end gets the message that you're trying to be nice and polite, so is far more tolerant when you descend into katakoto nihongo in order to actually get across the substance of why you called in the first place.

I hope that's true. Much of my working career has been built on that assumption.

[BluZytrix]

Are you telling me you got Hikari and you are only getting 4mb/s? My ADSL is still faster than that.

By the way, how's the Wal-Mart style Seiyu over there in Niiza? I've never visited the store but I am somewhat curious.

Yes, I meant 4 megabytes per second. Seiyu is just like any other Seiyu in Japan.

On a side note, I have been to the J-dentist and found it to be enjoyable. It didn't hurt, the people were nice and everything went well.

[羽之助]

I had my very first cavity when I lived in Tokyo a few years back, and I hadn't changed my dental hygeine at all...I was just using Japanese products instead.

Oh, bloody hell.

Well, my market sells Aquafresh, so I'm safe (maybe). Just look for anything that doesn't say '日本製' on it.

Actually, a waitress at the restaurant where I used to work enjoyed going to the dentist regularly for that 'clean' feel.

Also, I regularly freak elementary students out by not brushing my teeth after eating. On the days when I'm at the office I even see the adults doing it after they eat. However, no fluoride in the water does seem to play are really big part.

[Frankey-eh]

On a side note, I have been to the J-dentist and found it to be enjoyable. It didn't hurt, the people were nice and everything went well.
Lol, so now we have J-dentists?:rofl:

[Digital Masta]

they say you notice the most in others what you are most self-consciously aware about yourself... (I'm sure this was said more poetically)

So we like to make sure our teeth are straight and well taken care of...no biggie.

[six-eight-ten]

From speaking Japanese on the phone to a discussion of teeth and dentists... I thought I got sidetracked easily.

I did have one student who, I swear, had a tooth behind his incisors. It was almost growing out of the middle of the roof of his mouth.

Back on the phone topic... why can't the people at Pizza Hut understand my phone number when I say it? And it doesn't matter if I say it in Japanese or English, it always comes back unrecognizable, with numbers that aren't anywhere in my phone number thrown in. Come to think of it, I haven't ordered Pizza in about 8 months or so. I'm way overdue.

[sacluded]

When I lived in Sasebo we had a running joke that if you saw a Japanese girl with nice teeth, she was Korean.

[Mechz]

Yeah, I've seen poor 6-year-old kids with BLACK, infected teeth because of no dental care.


I haven't brushed my teeth for almost six years, and they're still white. WTF are you talking about?! O-o

[Zensouken]

When I lived in Sasebo we had a running joke that if you saw a Japanese girl with nice teeth, she was Korean.

That is so wrong... :D

Is dental care that bad in Japan?

[sedatedmonkey]

Maybe there are a few, but clearly not enough!

Anyway, you know it was just an allusion to the fact that people in Japan seemingly have the worst teeth in the developed world and even worse than several 3rd world countries.

I always found it strange how bad teeth are so acceptable and so common here.


Someone has not been to London...

[羽之助]

I haven't brushed my teeth for almost six years, and they're still white. WTF are you talking about?! O-o

Then you, like me who has more sugar in his bloodstream than hemoglobin and has never gotten a cavity, are very very VERY lucky.

[laggedreaction]

Someone has not been to London...

Laugh all you want about the British, but I've been to London several times and it does not compare at all to Tokyo or other major Japanese cities. Hell, in the UK they actually have free dental care!

Also, it's not so much dental hygene that I was refering to, but rather things like alignment. It's so bad that I'm convinced Japanese must be genetically prediposed to having scary teeth.

[mawande]

Yeah, I've seen poor 6-year-old kids with BLACK, infected teeth because of no dental care.


The teeth are not infected. The black is from the blasted flouride interacting with all the sugar or something the parents feed these kids.

[decswxaqz]

I don't know where the myth about British teeth are really bad. As someone said, free dental care for people until 16 or 18! Then if you are in full time study (ie uni) you can get subsidised health care! As a result, lots of children wear braces in the teenage years.
I've seen much worse teeth on Japanese who seem to think it's 'cute' to have wonky teeth o_O.

(Sorry for going off topic)

[Lisa M]

Bad teeth scare me.

[Zensouken]

I've seen much worse teeth on Japanese who seem to think it's 'cute' to have wonky teeth o_O.

OK, that's some buuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. How can anyone think "wonky" teeth are cute? Not in this great land, OH AMERICA!!! :D

Wonky teeth my ass, better get some damn flouride...

[Daddaluma]

Somehow this thread about speaking japanese on the phone turned into a discussion about the horridness of japanese teeth . . .

Anyhow, I recently had to call tech support for my internet connection again, and it was surprisingly a hell of alot easier than the last time. I guess I actually did learn a few things in the year and a half I've been here.

[Daddaluma]

Hmm, you're right.
The way I learned it, we learned teineigo for everything first, and then our professor said we were going to learn keigo, so I associated keigo as something different than teineigo. Which, it appears, is not the case.

I learned the exact same way. It took me a while to figure out that keigo doesn't only refer to honorific/humble speech.

I wonder why the hell they taught it that way?

Actually, the program I did went out of their way to make sure all of us could appropriately use sonkeigo and kenjogo (I'm talking about what PLF calls "super keigo", not just the standard word replacements like mesiagaru and such), which is something very few, if any other programs do. I just may be the only non native on the board who may be "fluent" in it.

[Chinpokomon]

I can understand when people use keigo with me, and I can whip out 使わせていただけませんか and ご存知ですか？ but when whenever I try to use 召し上がる it always comes out like 何を召し上がりになりますでしょうか？which sounds *way* too formal to me.　

Anyway, I guess when I'm on the phone, I'm the customer, right? So I shouldn't really need to use sonkeigo/kensongo, right? Or is that just wishful thinking?

[Daddaluma]

I can understand when people use keigo with me, and I can whip out 使わせていただけませんか and ご存知ですか？ but when whenever I try to use 召し上がる it always comes out like 何を召し上がりになりますでしょうか？which sounds *way* too formal to me.　

Anyway, I guess when I'm on the phone, I'm the customer, right? So I shouldn't really need to use sonkeigo/kensongo, right? Or is that just wishful thinking?

No, you're right. The times when you'd need to use sonkeigo are few and far between. And Kenjogo even less often. It's a useless skill I possess.

But more than stuff like mesiagaru and ーさせていただけます, I'm talking about the おstemになります honorific and おstemします humble forms. As well as the られる less formal version of the honorifics. You might hear that last one alot in reference to you. Sometimes my vice principal uses it when talking to me about stuff I do. I find it very awkward to be honored by my superior and someone so much older than me.

Very few foreigners ever learn those keigo forms well enough to use them, or learn enough about them to know when to use them. The humble form is particularly difficult to use as it requires a certain set of circumstances above and beyond the sonkeigo.
[/nihongo geek]

[Daddaluma]

What I call super-keigo is using standard teneigo when there is no kenjogo/sonkeigo to say what you want (as well as double-politing things, like 'PLF to moushimasu desu keredomo' as there's both a 'masu' and a 'desu'), and using kenjogo and sonkeigo along with it (instead of 'imasuka' using 'irasshaimasuka' and whatnot).

I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first cause you generally know what you're talking about. But I just checked with one of the english teachers, and I'm fairly certain that "moosimasu desu keredo mo" is incorrect japanese. I've never heard of any combination of "masu" followed by "desu" actually.

What I have heard, though, is "masu" followed by "desyou ka" (satou-san irrassyaimasu desyou ka?). Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

[Chinpokomon]

Since this thread is already hopelessly derailed...

I met with the orthodontist here. I won't go into the details, but what he told me a tooth would need to be extracted, or an additional "appliance" would need to be installed in order to continue treatment (I already had braces put on in the US).

So, this completely flies in the face of what my previous orthodontist said. I contacted him and he confirmed that no, extractions, nor appliances should be necessary. I'm suprised, because the orthodontist I met with here was educated in the US, so it's not like the foundations of what he learned were different from my old orthodontist. I hear that the braces system is completely different here in Japan, so I may be limited to visiting western educated orthodontists, which limits my options quite a bit.

Needless to say, I'm seeking a second and third opinion here, but I must admit, I'm a bit worried now.

[Chinpokomon]

Orothodontist in Japan? :rofl: Now I know you're just making this up...

*sigh*

Unfortunately, it appears that I was overly optimistic in my search for an orthodontist.

The first orthodontist I met with is described above.
The second orthodontist was very nice, but I would have to pay as I go, regardless of how long it takes. I wasn't comfortable with that, so I sought a third opinion.

The third orthodontist spoke english with me, but he used a bunch of technical jargon, so I still didn't know what he was talking about.

He also said he wanted to see me 4 times a year for teeth cleanings. The standard I'm used to in the US is once, or at most twice a year for cleanings.

He also said we would meet every 2 weeks (instead of 4) for braces adjustments. From what I've read about braces, you just can't rush them.

Anyway, I got the feeling that I was just going to get milked for everything I was worth, and had pretty much decided to seek yet another opinion.

All in all, the entire consultation took about 10-15 minutes. As I'm getting ready to leave, the receptionist stops me.

"Um, about payment. We accept cash, credit or debit cards"

:mad: What the fuck?

Ok, so I realize this is Japan, and things are done differently. I remember I had been hospitalized before, and it was only about 700 yen each time.

"So, your total with tax is 5250 yen"

:mad::mad::mad:

I'm reaching for my wallet, trying to be the good gaijin who doesn't make a scene, doesn't fight the system, but $50 for 15 minutes? And no mention of any fee before I had the consultation? I break down, and decide to speak out. This conversation took place in Japanese, but it's pretty irrelevant, so I'll just translate it for you.

Me: "So this is just for looking at my teeth?"
Receptionist: "Yes, this is the consultation fee"
Me: "Actually, I didn't know that there was a fee"
Receptionist: "....Well....do you have an insurance card?"
Me: <hands over insurance card, all the while knowing that insurance doesn't cover orthodontics>

Now the orhtodontist appears:

Orthodontist: "Insurance doesn't cover orthodontics"
Me: "I know, I just didn't know that there was a fee."
Orhtodontist: "Yes, well the initial consultation is the most important part."
Me: "You are the third orthodontist I have seen in Japan, and the others did not charge a fee"
Orthodontist: "Do orthodontists in the US charge a consultation fee?"
Me: "No"
Orthodontist: "Well, this office does. We charge for second opinions, etc. There is a fee every time you see the dentist/orthodontist"

At this point, I'm livid, but trying to keep my cool. I want to say "I'll pay this time, but I won't come back", but since I know I won't be coming back either way, and knowing that resistance is futile, I pay my fee, and leave the office.

Afterwards I realized that this is probably common practice in Japan, probably so common they didn't even feel the need to mention it before coming in. In the US, consultations are free for the most part, and if they aren't, they are at least good at letting you know up front.

I know it's just a cultural issue, but damn if it didn't piss me off. :bang:
I feel embarrassed for being such a sucker. :worried:
I'm disappointed in myself that I couldn't speak out stronger. :gloomy:
I'm stressed that I still haven't found an orthodontist I like. At this point, I think I'll just fly back to the US periodically and take care of it there. At least those braces are paid for. :duh:

[羽之助]

Information much appreciated, as I want to get my teeth cleaned here sooner or later ...

Ouchness, man.