JebusHCripes
01-28-2006, 11:07 AM
First off, you should know I'm Canuckian and have absolutely no political affiliation/bias regarding America beyond that of curiosity as it plays out within the realm of world events and history.
Secondly, I'm pretty much indifferent in my outlook and feelings regarding the events of 9/11, as I knew no one directly affected by it both in an immediate sense and in a resultant sense. That of course doesn't mean I don't feel compassion and sympathy for those affected by it, but rather I'm simply indicating that the effect it has upon me is similar to reading about ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.
Third, it is NOT my intent to incite a flamewar in any way, nor am I trolling for reactions, and if I've hurt or aggravated anyone by this post, you have my sincerest apologies, as it wasn't my intent to do so.
With that said, to the point/subject at hand.
I don't know how many of you have seen these films (I hesitate to call them documentaries, since there's conjecture and supposition being presented as primary sources of evidence and information), but if you haven't, you really should (see end of post for how to do so).
I won't give details about their conclusions, as I do believe some of the impact of the films is the discovery process as you view them. What I will say, is that there is VERY compelling evidence being presented and that the filmmakers are not stereotypical 'conspiracy whackjobs', but rather are university/college kids that have pieced together information that cannot be denied.
Like many theories, much of the observational and anecdotal evidence (provided by witnesses) is subject to a certain degree of interpretation (any law enforcement officer will tell you that an eye witness is about as reliable as the wind). I myself found many of the observations to be easily plausible and explainable due to numerous results in many instances that are counter to supporting their claims. That said, they bring up aspects which cannot be attributed to observational divergence, especially when presenting several scientific points, multiple expertise assessments, documentation (as a matter of record), etc.
I've seen a few 9/11 conspiracy films, primarily out of curiosity both from the aspect of wanting to hear what crazy theories someone might put forth as well as from a historic aspect, but very few of them are as unnerving as this one. The reason being is that it's almost entirely plausible, even with how fantastic it sounds on the surface, as well as the fact that on the afternoon of 9/11, I had a fleeting conversation with a friend of mine down in California where I suggested/theorized that it could be some Hollywood-esque ploy to steal billions of dollars while bilking insurance of yet more (after the fact) by using the loss of data from various sources like the SEC.
My point is, these films weren't the ramblings of some hick living alone in the woods, or some street rambler in need of medication. They appear to be legitimately genuine, but the information points to something so outlandish and almost Hollywood, that it's difficult to bring oneself to even consider the possibility.
Which begs the question about what we take in as fact and what we believe, as well as questions regarding how we perceive what we're told and by whom. Being an observer from the outside, I'm afforded the luxury of being able to be impassionate about the events in question (in a direct sense) and can ask those questions with more relative ease, but it doesn't change the fact that even I have to admit to initially accepting what I read, hear, and see from news media as fact first and then question with tacit speculation second. Though really, if you stop to think about it, things have always been that way, and could never be any different due to the nature of information. The only real question is whether one does the questioning at all.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough about this, and I'm curious to see impressions and opinions come forward, both from Americans as well as non-Americans. At the very least you owe it to yourself (especially if you're an American) to watch these films. That I would even say such a thing is unusual for me, as there are very few films, literature, music, etc. that I would say that about.
I won't bother giving direct links to the films, as all you have to do is do a search on pretty much any decently sized torrent site to find them (just search for "Loose Change") as I'm not sure if that would be acceptable by the mods, as while the creators openly encourage the distribution of the films (even without any remuneration to the creators) by any means possible, according to the creators, there IS a law in the US which expressly forbids distribution of films such as the ones which they've produced. If you really can't find it, you're seriously doing something wrong, or are too incompetent for the impact and point of such a film to matter to you.
Finally, go check out their website (http://www.loosechange911.com/).
Jebus
Secondly, I'm pretty much indifferent in my outlook and feelings regarding the events of 9/11, as I knew no one directly affected by it both in an immediate sense and in a resultant sense. That of course doesn't mean I don't feel compassion and sympathy for those affected by it, but rather I'm simply indicating that the effect it has upon me is similar to reading about ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.
Third, it is NOT my intent to incite a flamewar in any way, nor am I trolling for reactions, and if I've hurt or aggravated anyone by this post, you have my sincerest apologies, as it wasn't my intent to do so.
With that said, to the point/subject at hand.
I don't know how many of you have seen these films (I hesitate to call them documentaries, since there's conjecture and supposition being presented as primary sources of evidence and information), but if you haven't, you really should (see end of post for how to do so).
I won't give details about their conclusions, as I do believe some of the impact of the films is the discovery process as you view them. What I will say, is that there is VERY compelling evidence being presented and that the filmmakers are not stereotypical 'conspiracy whackjobs', but rather are university/college kids that have pieced together information that cannot be denied.
Like many theories, much of the observational and anecdotal evidence (provided by witnesses) is subject to a certain degree of interpretation (any law enforcement officer will tell you that an eye witness is about as reliable as the wind). I myself found many of the observations to be easily plausible and explainable due to numerous results in many instances that are counter to supporting their claims. That said, they bring up aspects which cannot be attributed to observational divergence, especially when presenting several scientific points, multiple expertise assessments, documentation (as a matter of record), etc.
I've seen a few 9/11 conspiracy films, primarily out of curiosity both from the aspect of wanting to hear what crazy theories someone might put forth as well as from a historic aspect, but very few of them are as unnerving as this one. The reason being is that it's almost entirely plausible, even with how fantastic it sounds on the surface, as well as the fact that on the afternoon of 9/11, I had a fleeting conversation with a friend of mine down in California where I suggested/theorized that it could be some Hollywood-esque ploy to steal billions of dollars while bilking insurance of yet more (after the fact) by using the loss of data from various sources like the SEC.
My point is, these films weren't the ramblings of some hick living alone in the woods, or some street rambler in need of medication. They appear to be legitimately genuine, but the information points to something so outlandish and almost Hollywood, that it's difficult to bring oneself to even consider the possibility.
Which begs the question about what we take in as fact and what we believe, as well as questions regarding how we perceive what we're told and by whom. Being an observer from the outside, I'm afforded the luxury of being able to be impassionate about the events in question (in a direct sense) and can ask those questions with more relative ease, but it doesn't change the fact that even I have to admit to initially accepting what I read, hear, and see from news media as fact first and then question with tacit speculation second. Though really, if you stop to think about it, things have always been that way, and could never be any different due to the nature of information. The only real question is whether one does the questioning at all.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough about this, and I'm curious to see impressions and opinions come forward, both from Americans as well as non-Americans. At the very least you owe it to yourself (especially if you're an American) to watch these films. That I would even say such a thing is unusual for me, as there are very few films, literature, music, etc. that I would say that about.
I won't bother giving direct links to the films, as all you have to do is do a search on pretty much any decently sized torrent site to find them (just search for "Loose Change") as I'm not sure if that would be acceptable by the mods, as while the creators openly encourage the distribution of the films (even without any remuneration to the creators) by any means possible, according to the creators, there IS a law in the US which expressly forbids distribution of films such as the ones which they've produced. If you really can't find it, you're seriously doing something wrong, or are too incompetent for the impact and point of such a film to matter to you.
Finally, go check out their website (http://www.loosechange911.com/).
Jebus