Japan and Getting Some

[Pierrot le Fou]

As threads keep popping up about this, on all sides of the fence, I figure that I should break it down all simple-like to prevent the cluttering of the forum with questions about whether folks can find that special someone.

You will have no more luck in Japan than you would in your home country if you maintain your same standards.

That is to say, you men who have never been able to find a woman in your home country, will not be able to find an equivalent woman in Japan, without lowering your standards. The Japanese women who pursue foreign men without caring about the fact that you are a socially inept misogynist are likely the type of woman you wouldn't touch with your worst enemy's penis at home.

As to the women, that means that if you weren't proactive and finding decent men back home, you likely won't have them falling into your lap in Japan. Women I know who had little trouble finding men back home, again, have little trouble finding them here.

Some tips:
- If you don't speak Japanese, you lose out on somewhere around 70-80% of potential partners
- If you frequent clubs to find partners, don't be shocked when you end up getting numbers only from people who are the club-type
- You'll never know if you don't try
- Contrary to popular belief, meeting people generally requires effort from both parties, so don't just lay back and expect people to come to you

It seems like many people are under this misguided notion that Japan is really easy to find other people in if you're male, and nigh impossible if you're a woman. That's just false. If you go to a gaijin bar in any major city, preferrably in the evening before it gets crowded (I'm usually there for happy hour and darts), you will see several lonely male individuals wander in, go up to the second floor, go downstairs, and walk back out.

Alternatively, you see them sitting around in a crowded bar, alone, and waiting for someone else to come to them. It could happen, sure, but it's not a very good strategy. I don't bother to tell them that though, as they tend to be deluded into believing that the merit of being a foreign face in a bar in Japan is enough to have women fauning over them.

(They're just to shy to approach, of course)

Women on the other hand seem to be expecting men to faun over them because they have breasts, and to get the confidence boost from knowing men they don't want who want them. They get miserable when they give no signs towards men, and don't get approached. Pro-activeness is key. Approaching a female stranger just isn't as frequent in Japan as in the US, and tends to involve a lot more alcohol than it does in the US.

But there is hope! There is indeed.

Both men and women, if willing to lower their standards, can have a smorgasbord of meaningless sex with denizens of the night. This, for some odd reason, doesn't appeal to many folks. Alternatively, maintaining the same standards, one can have hope if they just put effort into it. Unfortunately, most people who don't realize this tend to be semi-lost-causes as they didn't learn the intricacies of dating before they came to Japan, and then have the language and cultural barrier to overcome on top of it.

See someone you like? Go after them. Who cares if on average it's harder/easier to get someone in Japan? Regardless of relative difficulty, you're still going to get nowhere without trying, and you're still only going to get a 'no' answer at worst.

Dating has always been hit or miss. Deal with it. Don't expect Japan or anywhere else in the world to be any different in that respect.

And in the meantime, realize that being white, black, orange, or purple won't help your chances if you're an incompetent sniveling coward sipping your beer in the corner leering at every hot woman in the room. That's just creepy regardless of your skin color.

[erbiumfiber]

I would just like to add that, if you are not reasonably fluent in Japanese and need a partner to speak English, Japanese men are extremely afraid to use whatever English they know with a stranger. Much more so than women. I see it at my office all the time. Someone will come in apologizing about how bad his English is when it is nearly perfect. Meanwhile, the all-female support staff will use English even if it's incorrect.

So from that perspective, it is slightly more difficult for women to meet English-speaking Japanese men than it is for men to meet English-speaking Japanese women.

And, as always, these comments apply to Tokyo because that is where I live. Your experience may vary...

[Scott]

Damnation, and here I thought my purple skin would make me stand out... I hope the dye comes out. >.>

[jindojim]

You lie PLF. Everyone knows that Westerners get flocks of Japanese girls if they come to Japan. Just cuz you've lived there for like 3 years doesn't mean you know EVERYTHING :P

[slinky]

Seems to me like you could have left the "Japan and" off the subject line.

On a sidenote, I kinda thought creepy was 'in' in Japan.

[JusenkyoGuide]

On a sidenote, I kinda thought creepy was 'in' in Japan.
Only in Akihabara, and even then it's not going to work out the way you think it is. ;)

[slinky]

Only in Akihabara, and even then it's not going to work out the way you think it is. ;)

Hmm. That sounds ominous.

/makes note to self

[悲しいパンダ]

I think I can appy this to my life in America. Thanks PLF for telling me things I already know but forgot. :bang: :duh:

[Shishou]

If I get flocks of hot chicks swooning over to me in America, can I expect the same in Japan?

[KojiroTakenashi]

Possibly. Your Mojo just *might* merge into your Gaijin Power skillset, thus becoming Gaijin Mojo...

[hanacker]

There is something to be said for being in a strange land to help overcome shyness, though. In America I tended to be pretty shy, but in Japan, fuck it, nobody knew me so I was gonna do whatever I wanted. Of course that's more mental than anything else. I pretty much had the same experience visiting New York City. If you want to pick up girls I highly recommend NYC. I wasn't there long but the bars near NYU were great.

[PopCulturePooka]

Well Shishou, the most popular and sexually/relatioship content guys I knew in Japan were also popular, well liked or big players in their home country.

I didn't know any guys who were major players in Japan that were fuck ups back home.

[Shishou]

Well Shishou, the most popular and sexually/relatioship content guys I knew in Japan were also popular, well liked or big players in their home country.

I didn't know any guys who were major players in Japan that were fuck ups back home.

Interesting.

[stillbornsinger]

I've seen several people who are damn near socially retarded with beautiful Japanese women. So I suppose from what I've perceived it is possible just purely by being gaijin and in the right place at the right time.

Then again, they probably arn't the girls you want to hook up with if your interested in a meaningful relationship.

By the way if anyone cares I'm going on a third meeting with a female friend on Friday, the first two were fun but nothing came of it so wish me luck Friday! =P

For the most part though PCP's & PLF's points were spot on in my experience.

[hanacker]

Oh, probably the best thing about going to Japan to get some booty is that Eastern and Western standards of beauty are somewhat different so someone who's plain in one country could be attractive in another. For example, lots of Americans love Lucy Liu but every Chinese person I've talked to thinks she's very plain. Just don't expect to go from a big slob to a Don Juan.

[Komachi Angel]

>Hanacker

Good point - I have often heard this opinion, and there was even a thread about it at some stage a while ago. While it may not necessarily be the case, that which is considered attractive may differ greatly across countries.

I am highly amused to see examples of this kind of thing, when either society portrays the other in some kind of medium. For example, a lot of posters and such I see in Japan of foreigners are very typed - often using slightly elfin types with certain features more commonly seen amongst the Japanese.

On the other hand, some American movies I have seen about Japan used really western-looking actresses in some of the 'heroine' roles - almost nothing about them looked Japanese.

Mind you - the door swings both ways. Japanese men and women may find you more attractive than you may be percieved at home.

Overall, I agree with PLF on this one. It's more or less stating common sense, but it seems you have to teach that kind of thing these days.

One thing I do have to say that might be in your favor in Japan is the possibility of the 'exotic look', but you get this kind of thing all over the world. Need an example? Umm... lemme think - Japanese girls.

[stsparky]

Never a player, but found beautiful women who shared a common interest in Computer Graphics who happened to Japanese. Nothing wrong with persistance I guess. It wasn't the "Interested in fucking?" - ask 100 girls to score 1 scenario thank god. In my case, I just dug brunettes over blondes so I headed to Japan. I'd hit on any kind of brunette though, Sparky

[Masa the Masta]

I said this in another thread. Fundamentally, women are still women, and they look for the same things as most other cultures do. I'll elaborate on that on this thread however. Have these things, and you can be a pick-up artist anywhere.

1.) Sense of humor.
2.) Confidence.
3.) Good grooming.
4.) Look and feel your best, all the time.

These are just vital in ANY country, no matter what. Japan is no different really, if you go there as an introverted, bad smelling otaku fangay, then more than likely you won't really get any Japanopoon.

[gyoza]

This is kinda related to the previous post... does the 'nice guys' phenomenon hold true in Japan too, and to a greater or lesser degree?

[mawande]

Gyoza... I've said this in other threads.

The girls who go out with bad boys are psychologically damaged, and sometimes actually bitches. That's why they go out with bad boys.

Nice guys who are actually nice get girls. Guys who think they are nice, but suffer from the belief that no girl will want them unless she's had a real horrible boyfriend to compare them with first, are also psychologically damaged. Guys who think they're nice and then "discover" that the way to get girls is to act like an asshole, they were never nice, they just hadn't learned how to pick out the psychologically damaged girls yet.

Got it?

[JusenkyoGuide]

This is kinda related to the previous post... does the 'nice guys' phenomenon hold true in Japan too, and to a greater or lesser degree?
I think you're confusing the idea that nice guys don't get girls while jerks do with the reality of nice guys don't get girls because we never ask, and instead seem to feel that a girl should SEE how nice we are and leap into our arms.

I know this well, I've been told I'm far too nice many a time and it took me half a year to FINALLY ask a particular girl out. Thankfully she said yes and we're getting married in August, but that was still a half a year wasted. :duh:

[Masa the Masta]

I think you're confusing the idea that nice guys don't get girls while jerks do with the reality of nice guys don't get girls because we never ask, and instead seem to feel that a girl should SEE how nice we are and leap into our arms.

I know this well, I've been told I'm far too nice many a time and it took me half a year to FINALLY ask a particular girl out. Thankfully she said yes and we're getting married in August, but that was still a half a year wasted. :duh:

Haha, but not all guys are as lucky as you. :watson:

At any rate, congrats.

Personally though, I wouldn't really call people jerks, as much as I'd call them alpha males. Girls want alpha males, and the nice guys see them as jerks, even if they necessarily aren't.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I'm not an alpha male, and I have no problem finding women.

"Nice guy" is a codework for 'misogynist prick' in my book. And yes, misogynist pricks have trouble getting women in Japan. What a shocker.

[gyoza]

Heh, I definitely fall under the category Jusenkyo mentioned. Let me join Masa in congatulating you. :)

[gyoza]

I'm not an alpha male, and I have no problem finding women.

"Nice guy" is a codework for 'misogynist prick' in my book. And yes, misogynist pricks have trouble getting women in Japan. What a shocker.

Um... I might be missing something, but how does being nice equate to hating women? :boggled:

[hanacker]

The girls who go out with bad boys are psychologically damaged, and sometimes actually bitches. That's why they go out with bad boys.

You sound bitter and/or jealous about something.

In general, girls go out with bad boys because they think they'll be more fun than "nice guys". And in general, they're right. You might have to be a little crazy to settle down with a bad boy, but lots of normal girls go through their bad boy phase.

[Pierrot le Fou]

The long and the short of it is this:

There are plenty of non-asshole men who have no trouble finding girlfriends. Rather than "Nice Guys" acknowledging this fact, they blame their women trouble on the women, stating that women just don't like nice guys. They are blaming women for their own troubles, and that's misogynistic.

[gyoza]

Ah, well I suppose we've misunderstood each other then... when I spoke of nice guys I simply meant guys who are nice, without those connotations. I don't blame women; as I said earlier I'm one of those people who's overcautious of making the first move.

[mawande]

You sound bitter and/or jealous about something.

In general, girls go out with bad boys because they think they'll be more fun than "nice guys". And in general, they're right. You might have to be a little crazy to settle down with a bad boy, but lots of normal girls go through their bad boy phase.

Bitter? Whatever makes you think I'm bitter? (this is a joke) Very likely you also think I'm a man. However, I'm one of those women who, when young, was stupid enough to go out with what turned out to be a bad boy. When I had to face up to the fact that he was bad, I added stupid enough to think my love could change him. Getting him to go to AA would change him (he pretended to go a few times). Becoming the mother of his child would change him. Now, when he punched me in the face believing that I'd been flirting with some guy who happened to pass in front of me at a party, that's when I finally faced facts and my friends helped me throw him out. I still hoped for a while, but then had to throw him in jail. I also found out he was sleeping with one of my semi-friends (but her psychological problems made that no surprise). He moved in with her for a while. I heard several months later he chased her around the house with a knife, but cannot corraborate that story, and don't need to seek him out to check, especially after nearly eighteen years.

They're more fun? HAHAHAHAHAHAH No, they're not. Perhaps it's the constant fear that gives girls a false-fun reading.

I'm still psychologically damaged, though. I'd rather be single than end up with a creep masquerading as a nice guy. This has certainly saved me a lot of money and stress.

[erbiumfiber]

I'm still psychologically damaged, though. I'd rather be single than end up with a creep masquerading as a nice guy. This has certainly saved me a lot of money and stress.

Oh, man do we have a lot in common. My ex wasn't a "bad boy" but is definitely psychologically damaged- he looked like a homeless person when he showed up to sign the papers to allow me to take our daughter to Japan (he could have cared less but as a lawyer, I jump through all the legal hoops). But I have to ask, what was so psychologically wrong with me that I put up with him?

Besides, as you know, being a single parent doesn't leave a lot of time for dating-besides, you don't want to expose your kid to a stream of guys wandering in and out of your life.

I'm learning to enjoy being single again now that my (nearly) 17-year-old decided to go to a boarding school for the arts. I just went skiing for the day on my own and had a great time! There's a Japanese guy that wants to take me to Hokkaido but, as I mentioned in another thread, it's just because he thinks Americans are wild sex objects (hmm, American movies may be to blame...) and I'm not interested in a bunch of casual sex. This is why I haven't really dated up until now...

I forgot how much I do like doing things on my own (even though I miss my daughter ever day...)

[alansmithee]

I just found a link that I think might be informative for people in this thread:

http://www.ghettocitiesclothing.com/guide.html

I think this guy really knows what he's talking about, apparently he gets all sorts of bitches in JAPAN!

[Pierrot le Fou]

warning, the link contains some not-so-worksafe photos in the linked pages.

[slinky]

The long and the short of it is this:

There are plenty of non-asshole men who have no trouble finding girlfriends. Rather than "Nice Guys" acknowledging this fact, they blame their women trouble on the women, stating that women just don't like nice guys. They are blaming women for their own troubles, and that's misogynistic.

Well put. When someone feels the need to package themselves as a "Nice Guy", it's a red flag. I generally find they're one (or both) of two things:

1) A simpering (sometimes creepy) milquetoast who, as PLF said, is too willing to blame women for not flocking to him without feeling the need to examine his own role in his failed relationships.
2) A bad boy preying on the hurt and desparate women.

To be fair though, I believe that the "Real Woman" emphasis sends up a similar red flag.

In dating, both are to be avoided.

[hanacker]

Bitter? Whatever makes you think I'm bitter? (this is a joke) Very likely you also think I'm a man.

I actually had no idea what you were. That's why I went with bitter or jealous. And sounds like I was right on the bitter part :clap:

Sorry. Anyway, maybe you're just referring to badder boys than I am. Normal girls generally don't look for guys who are going to punch them in the face, but at the very least a lot of girls go through a phase of liking guys who project a "bad boy" image.

[alansmithee]

warning, the link contains some not-so-worksafe photos in the linked pages.


Oops, I didn't notice any myself, didn't check the photos.

But what I'm still trying to understand is if that site is someone's real experience, or satire. I at first thought it was satire, but after reading it more I'm starting to think it's for real.

[MNJetter]

warning, the link contains some not-so-worksafe photos in the linked pages.

Thank you for the warning. If you hadn't put it there, I would totally have clicked on the link while there were junior high schoolers standing right behind my chair and talking to the teacher next to me. Boy, would that have required some creative use of my limited Japanese vocabulary to explain!

whew...

[mawande]

erbiumfiber, have I mentioned how much I like your current avatar? Hey, introduce me to the guy who wants to take you to Hokkaido! No, not really. I've heard of this thing called sex, but it's been over 8 years.

Hanacker, I've concluded that most girls watch too many movies. Sadly, though, some people confuse taste in cool clothes with cool guy. Well before moving to Japan, I actually met up with a nice Japanese guy who I helped by tutoring him in English over the phone. Eventually he asked me out, and it worked out. We were together for over 4 years while we went to two different universities, he was a pretty decent male-figure in my son's life, and didn't show any tendency towards violence. After four years, though, I needed a greater reason not to go to Japan than a simple request to come live with him. He wouldn't up the ante, and beside his mother got him a job in Atlanta. I couldn't see moving to Atlanta with a boyfriend hesitant to commit and my nine-year old son, so got my job in Japan. We promised each other that, if we still wanted to, we'd get engaged the next Christmas.

So we e-mailed often but over the passage of months his e-mails became shorter and increasingly unhappy in tone. He didn't like his neighbors, his apartment, his co-workers because they didn't like him since he'd been hired because his mother made the company, and he was so lonely he might hire some woman on a street corner, blahblahblah. I tried to be supportive, but eventually he sent me a "we should just be friends" letter. I told him that would be all right. Then he sent me an outraged message accusing me of sleeping around. Well, I answered that I no longer felt sad about parting from him and blocked his e-mail address.

I never heard from him... until he showed up on my mother's doorstep on Christmas Day, shaky from the flu and asking me to become engaged. This was all very romantic and I was swept away. He was amazed at my son's Japanese, and to know that I was doing just fine in Japan but had remained single. Over the next week, though, I realized something was still wrong. Something in his choice of conversation subjects, in how he spoke of things... he was not in good shape. I urged him to seek counselling. He had no intention of doing so. He moved back to Japan and started talking about moving from Osaka to get a job near me. This really was worrying me, so in the end I met him, tried to give him the engagement ring back and said I couldn't marry him because there was something wrong and he should see a doctor. He became upset, saying I was the only person who thought something was wrong with him. I countered that he shouldn't marry a woman who thought this and he returned with "I won't listen." At any rate, he was going to Hawaii to get a tattoo removed, and I asked him to please, if he felt that crazy sliding despair, go see a doctor while he was there. He said he would, just to appease me.

He went to Hawaii, and sure enough it happened. So after he returned to Japan, he called to tell me he'd gone to the doctor and found out he was suffering from one of the brain chemical imbalances, and that he'd had a nervous breakdown while in America! So he'd been reassured that lots of people have this same problem, and given medicine to take which he's not supposed to do with alcohol. At any rate, that was very good! But I refused to get back together with him because we were on opposite sides of Japan for one thing, for another he called me to talk when he was drunk, after the time he'd told me he's not supposed to drink and use the medicine. I'd already had experience with him blaming me for his misery. Even when we were going out, he used to say he wanted me to be more like a Japanese girl, and I figured the learning curve of cooking and everything would be way too stressful. At any rate, it's now been six years although he did call me once, talked to my son who was too busy playing a video game to pay attention to him, and eventually that sone of mine remembered to tell me the man had called.

[jindojim]

The writings of that guy on alan's link don't seem to be satire...but if they aren't, they sure make me mad.

[tsiki]

So basically, hitting on women is pretty much the same as in the USA and western Europe.

But, but... tell me about the gaijin culture over there. Do gaijins just start talking and befriend each other more easily just because they're gaijin, even in a gaijin bar crowded with gaijins (yeah, I like saying gaijin, glad you noticed)?

[羽之助]

So basically, hitting on women is pretty much the same as in the USA and western Europe.

But, but... tell me about the gaijin culture over there. Do gaijins just start talking and befriend each other more easily just because they're gaijin, even in a gaijin bar crowded with gaijins (yeah, I like saying gaijin, glad you noticed)?

Argh, I hate the word "gaijin". Even though, after you strip away the niceties it remains what anyone not Japanese is.

Mm, it really depends on the person. A lot of (Western?) foreigners in Japan suffer from Marco Polo Syndrome (http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2005/03/30/marco-polo-syndrome) , and try to feel superior over others who have come to Japan. Making Japanese friends outside of an English circle depends on language ability, so a lot of people are forced to form relationships with others from the same background. And some people find it easier to deal with someone of their own culture, or someone sharing the experience of being in Japan.

[Osucka]

I then looked up from my money at her and she laughed out the words, "gomenasai, eigo wakarimasen..." (which means, I'm sorry, I can't speak english..)

It's funny because I've just started reading it and already found a glaring error.
He failed to realize that he can't speak English either based on his (paraphrase) "Yo, yo yo, lemme gedda mcgrizzle fo shizzle burga up in da heezy!".