I hate people who pick a personal fight with you because of...

[koku]

what they couldn't do.

It's one thing to say "no i tired it, it's insalely difficult."

but another to throw flames, and insults and go completly out of your way to try to make the other person look stupid.


LOOK

it can be done, it's been done, i don't care if from my perspective you're a cocky dimwad who's too buissy trying to bring down others to improve it yourself.

Go...to[flame].

*sigh* I needed to let off that. But it's really annoying.

here's what i want to say.


there ARE people that do all the things you f'n can't. So stop saying its near impossible.

[Jay]

I agree. It's absolutely amazing the ignorance of some people.

[tekkan]

Thats impossible.

What are you? Stupid?

[D-pad]

Thats impossible.

What are you? Stupid?


LOLZORZ KOKUJIN IZ SUCH A PHAGGOT!!!111!!!eleventy-one!!!

[h2orowe]

Kokujin's a phaggot? Have we forgotten Mariko already?

Bu dun tsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssss
Just kidding, your my boy D, your my boy!

I hate it when people pick their ass and shake your hand.

[koku]

I agree. It's absolutely amazing the ignorance of some people.

*cough pierro *cough*


really though, i hate people like that. That get all worked up and mad at you because of there shortcomings. And tell you it's impossible because they failed or find it hard.

*ugh* just had to blow some stam though.

To anyone that hears stuff like this, find some examples of people that did do it. And know that's enough proof already. Prove the pessemistic people wrong and just fuel what they say to make you work harder.

If i know it's already been done, that's enough for me.

[Praetorian]

there ARE people that do all the things you f'n can't.


Hahaha. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Jay]

*cough pierro *cough*

NOTE: I don't think this about you, Pierrot.

I ain't getting involved here Koku. Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.

[koku]

NOTE: I don't think this about you, Pierrot.

I ain't getting involved here Koku. Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.


lol...well that's just an example.

I just don't like pessemistic people as a whole. Especially when they try to bring me down. You can deff. touch that generic statement as a whole.

Pessemestic people suck. When they try to take you down with them, they suck more.

[MFDub]

....Did I miss something?

[koku]

....Did I miss something?

lol yeah, you were apart of it. the thread i made in general and a few people's responses really got to me. Anywho, spoke to someone that knows alot about it and i feel better.

I think it's better to just avoid it/keep it to myself.

[MFDub]

lol yeah, you were apart of it. the thread i made in general and a few people's responses really got to me. Anywho, spoke to someone that knows alot about it and i feel better.

I think it's better to just avoid it/keep it to myself.


Ah, I see. I don't think most people were saying it was impossible for you. I think we were just warning you it was difficult.

One thing I will tell you, from what you said you had a much better study schedule than I did during your first year, meaning that you'll probably do better in your second than I did. I kept mucking up because I didn't have a really good handle on the basics, so I kept having to go back and read them over. Not very productive.

Anyway, don't take it personally. Unless someone said specifically 'Kokujin, you're an idiot.' That might be a wee bit personal... ;)

[koku]

Ah, I see. I don't think most people were saying it was impossible for you. I think we were just warning you it was difficult.

One thing I will tell you, from what you said you had a much better study schedule than I did during your first year, meaning that you'll probably do better in your second than I did. I kept mucking up because I didn't have a really good handle on the basics, so I kept having to go back and read them over. Not very productive.

Anyway, don't take it personally. Unless someone said specifically 'Kokujin, you're an idiot.' That might be a wee bit personal... ;)


lol that was like half of pierro's posts except harsher :P.

I think half the fire that fueled it was pierro :mad:

the other half was just an entire forum of people disagreeing with me to great lenghts :P.

but yeah, a few people pointed out different people learn differently so I'm taking your advice and not letting it get to me personally.

i just had to rant! and what better place then padded walls room ^^.

[akitaka]

Not to try and bust your bubble, I think it was apparent that Pierrot would have reacted in the way he had with your post, considering his previous ones. He admits, himself, that he can be an asshole, but that's considering that the way in which he constructs his sentences; blunt, and in some cases, putting him on top. With that in mind, it's only best to sit back and nod when he takes a swing. A lot of times he's correct; he's able to put some unbiased info that's on-topic, and this is sometimes counter-set by his sharp tongue. I just ignore any apparent flames and read on; and if you don't want him to badger you, do the same.

Not to sound mean, but it would probably be in his best interest to do the same as well, unless he was willing to change his tone. I don't think he'll be doing that, though.

Hmm. What a rant. At least you're honest, though.

(end online preaching)

[PopCulturePooka]

I love me some Pierrot.

One of this boards quality members.

Quality.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Remember Pierrot created a Flaming Thread about how much me, Jay, Jiant Panda, FireFly, etcetc were the ones who did all the "spamming," and he also complained about why do people have conversations in the middle of a Thread?
Yeah, good times, gooooood times... :D

[PopCulturePooka]

Yeah. He was right on the money.

[Henjin]

Here's a story:

Person A walks into a room of people studying for a test. He tells them all that the test is the easiest thing in the world. If they think it's hard, they're doing it wrong. The people ask him how much he knows about the subject. He responds that he just started learning, but hey, it's easy as all heck. Several persons, we'll call them persions B-Z respond that they are much farther along in said subject, and believe them, it's not easy. Person A says they're doing it wrong. Understandably, Persons B-Z get upset. Person A then wants to know why everyone is picking on him.

I heard that story somewhere... Thought it was funny and I'd share.

[nice gaijin]

kokujin, you started your thread talking about how easy Japanese is for you. I'm so glad you're confident and optimistic about Japanese!

I wonder how you study and practice the language; I searched through all of your posts, and from what I saw skimming through your 220+ posts was that you haven't used kana or kanji once, let alone post in Japanese. I found this extremely ironic. Perhaps instead of telling us how easy the language is for you in English, you could explain this to us in Japanese?

or maybe you could join us in one of the "learn japanese" threads and aid us in answering questions and explaining the more complicated concepts, instead of getting bitter when people don't share in your hubris.

[4letterwords]

hehe...

Anyway... I dunno. When I read the statement that was something along the lines of "Japanese is easy"... I felt about - that big... its not.

My first couple years of learning Japanese was something like "Wow I can't believe what all of the fuss is about, its so simple!"

And then a few summers ago, I joined the student ambassadorship and studied abroad for the summer in Shizuoka... and it felt like my years of studying were for nothing. Saying Japanese is easy when you've never been there is like saying you suck at baseball even though you've never swung a bat...

This is not a personal attack on Kokujin, he's a cool guy... but sometimes people make statements they think will get one reaction but because they didn't fully weigh all possible outcomes, they get a completely different reaction and are left confused.

That statement actually made me feel somewhat belittled until I read that Kokujin had never studied Japanese in Japan. (No offense Koku ;)) I thought maybe I was doing something wrong if someone could pick it up so easily, but then I remembered that my second and third year in Japanese, I was telling friends, family, strangers even, that Japanese was so simple.

I know I'll probably never be fluent in Japanese. It's almost impossible to become fluent if you don't speak it natively or learn it from a very young age... and are constantly submerged in it.

But I'm comfortable as I am now and I know I can only get better.

Dakara- I'm not too worried :D.

[4letterwords]

Oh I thought I might add...

Kokujin might not have Japanese writing capabilities on his computer...

I know hiragana, katakana, and 400, maybe upwards of 500 kanji... but since my laptop is broken, and I can't type in Kana or Kanji on my desktop computer, I'm basically screwed till my older brother (who is a computer genius) drives from Ft. Wayne (his college is there) down to Terre Haute (my college) to fix it... thats about a 4 1/2 hour drive... so its not happening within, lets say, the next week. :D

But just so you know, when I do get my laptop back, I'll be joining in with you guys on the Japanese thread :P

[nice gaijin]

neko, ygpm. I can walk you through it.

I would think if kokujin didn't have the ability, he would have said so by now since so many people have asked him to speak japanese.

[Praetorian]

Japanese is simple in some ways (no past tenses and plurals etc) but extremely hard in others. I haven't even started studying it yet, but I feel my opinion is right on the bat, as always.

[koku]

henjin here's where your story sucks and so does the assumptions of others.

I never said they were doing it wrong. I never would.

and yeah, i don't have the software, lost my OS cd long long ago.

back to topic, not everyone learns like you, not everyone will.

there's a sharp difference what you do with it when you find that out.

IRT topic

pessimistic people who just kill all the fun. Yeah...that's very sad to see.

hmmmm.

[Henjin]

henjin here's where your story sucks and so does the assumptions of others.

I never said they were doing it wrong. I never would.


Guess I just misinterpreted this:
i dont know what you guys are learning, or what your learning habits are, but i'm attacking it.

[koku]

Guess I just misinterpreted this:

pierro pissed me off.

:o

either way, If i was in japan after learning in college I would still be studying 2hours a day. Mabye more.


EDIT: i think for a while atleast i'll just hold off on things i want to argue about/convince others that I haven't lived through yet. It's just too hard and in reality asking for it, no matter how much I believe i know about it.

just not worth it unless it's like with friends or someone that would understand and not take it the wrong way.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It's one thing to get all huffy because I attacked your opinion in a thread, and an entirely separate one to make an entire other thread for the sole purpose of attacking someone who did exactly what they asked you to do in the previous thread.

It's pretty comical actually. So i'm going to end my introduction post here. Anyone who's taking japanese or learning it, or speaks it very well dive in and throw in some insight. So share what you know and what you've experienced.

Quite amazingly, everyone and their mother who had experience with Japanese did just that, and tore apart your notion that Japanese is an easy language. But rather than accepting that, or acknowledging it, you decided to whine about me 'flaming' you about it.

A little over-sensitive there champ?

But let's review my posts to see where this giant flame I must have made was...

My God, he's at ～て form for crissakes, and know 14 kanji.

"OMG! Japanese is SO EASY! I r0x0rz at tihs cuz I like it!!111!!ichi!!!one!"

You have yet to deal with:
- Politeness forms
- Giving and receiving
- Kanji
- Kanji compounds
- Kanji exceptions (大人 = otona, not daijin. 雰囲気 = fuinki, not funiki)

Japanese is not 'simple' and it's very hard to speak at any decent speed whatsoever prior to immersion. Because most grammar patterns are the opposite of Japanese, and don't require the subject, it is very hard to make a 'natural' sounding phrase for a long time, no matter how much you study.

Stupid things like getting 行く and 来る backwards. You don't say, "Mind if I come over later?" when on the phone with a friend as you would in English, because you aren't actually coming to their place, you're going there. And you wouldn't generally say "I ate because I was hungry" you'd say "I was hungry so I ate" which is backwards and gets mucked up alot.

And then there are such wonderful things as passive forms and giving and receiving. To give to someone, someone else giving to someone else, you receiving from someone, someone else receiving from someone else. Loads of fun. With passive, especially, tons of fun.

チャリンコが盗んだ！ = bad way of saying, "I stole someone's bike!"
チャリンコが盗まれた！ = correct way of saying, "My bike was stolen!"

Guess which one a student will generally say first when their bike gets stolen? Yeah, real easy.

Sorry kokujin, but learning the simple basic grammar in a book, and actually using that grammar in a conversation, are entirely different. Also bear in mind that people in Japan talk in a giant run-on sentence that never necessarily ends, and you'll realize that no matter how simple each individual grammar point is, you're mixing them all together constantly in speech.

Then toss in the fact that little kids speak differently from adults outside the office who speak differently than they do inside the office, and you have some problems. Then travel to another prefecture and suddenly you're getting totally screwed because you have no idea what's being spoken about.

ぼちぼち行こうか？
なんでやねぇ？！
アホかおまえ？！なんでわからんのかい？！

Sarcasm directed towards you? Snide remarks about your lack of experience? Sure. Flames? Not a single one that can compete with your unveiled remark in this thread about how I am ignorant. Golly gee. And that was the only post I made directed at you, and it was in no way anywhere close to 'flaming' you. You're being an over-sensitive baby about this for the obvious reason that you were wrong.

Deal with it.

You have a wonderful habit of entirely fucking up an argument by making an untenable claim, and then whining about how you were misunderstood despite having written exactly what everyone understood. Nobody in that thread, myself included, ever stated that Japanese was impossible to learn, or that nobody could work hard and succeed at it without an exceedingly huge amount of difficulty.

You just made that up to feel persecuted.

You said the language wasn't hard. EVERY SINGLE native English person who knows Japanese on the forum said that you were incorrect. Rather than acknowledge that and stop whining about it, you sat there and kept trying to act as if we were all big meanies trying to say you couldn't be having an easy time in class.

Next time read what we write instead of whining about what we didn't say.

And my name is spelled 'Pierrot' almighty linguistic genius.

[KujiInRetsu]

... I'm sure I'd gone over this on the old forums at one point. "Just because being an asshole is your nature doesn't mean people don't expect you to control it sometimes."

Or somesuch.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I actually held back a lot in the last thread until he started whining about how I was being so mean to poor widdle kokujin...

I mocked him, to be certain, but really he had been defending himself from polite statements to the same extent throughout page one. And he hadn't changed his position. Am I an asshole sometimes? Yes. Does it hurt my points sometimes? Sure. Do people deserve harsh treatment sometimes? Absolutely.

And I doled it out, without remorse, because I am right. No amount of debating this will change that fundamental fact. kokujin was wrong, I was right, and just like the thread on the old forum, he refuses to admit it instead deciding to cry about how mean I'm being to him, and how him and all his friends all agree, so therefore I am just a big meanie who has no idea what he's talking about.

Fuck that.

If you want me to show restraint towards the person who claims in the face of overwhelming evidence that 1=2 because his friends disagree, then you don't know me very well. Idiocy is idiocy. And there's no reason to give people the cockamamied idea that idiocy is excusable, and should be coddled. Make an idiotic point in the face of overwhelming evidence, and you deserve to be mocked if you are so stubborn as to refuse to admit that you are wrong.

It's the price you pay.

[Jay]

Quite amazingly, everyone and their mother who had experience with Japanese did just that, and tore apart your notion that Japanese is an easy language. But rather than accepting that, or acknowledging it, you decided to whine about me 'flaming' you about it.

I think that what kokujin is trying to say, is that he found Japanese an easy language to learn, and stated as such, and then other people came along and "tore apart his notion", to quote you, flat-out denying that Japanese is easy to learn.

Perhaps the lines just got crossed, but from what he's said in various threads and on IM just made me think this might be the reason.

I'm not in any way taking sides, but this happens in my family a lot, where one person is of one opinion and then the next person comes along and states a fact that no, it is NOT right what the other person thinks.

Thoughts?

[KujiInRetsu]

Do people deserve harsh treatment sometimes? Absolutely.

And I doled it out, without remorse, because I am right. No amount of debating this will change that fundamental fact. When they're as stupid as people from the Christian Exodus, who plan to take South Carolina and secede from the Union simply because they believe that America has become too secular for them, then that is the ideal time to beat the fuck out of them. Unleash everything. Leave no scathing remark, gouging invective, swearword and "Your mother is X-whore" jibe unspent, and leave them crying. That said, I don't think anyone on this board is as stupid as people from the Christian Exodus.

And also, the constant idea that you are infallible is part of what is pissing some people off. You may not intend it, but that's how it's coming out. In spades, might I add.

kokujin was wrong, I was right, and just like the thread on the old forum, he refuses to admit it instead deciding to cry about how mean I'm being to him, and how him and all his friends all agree, so therefore I am just a big meanie who has no idea what he's talking about.Kokujin, he has a point. You could try not responding instead. Instead, now we've got an entire thread dedicated to flaming another person. Seriously, for Christ's sake, this is getting ridiculous.

If you want me to show restraint towards the person who claims in the face of overwhelming evidence that 1=2 because his friends disagree, then you don't know me very well. Idiocy is idiocy. And there's no reason to give people the cockamamied idea that idiocy is excusable, and should be coddled. Make an idiotic point in the face of overwhelming evidence, and you deserve to be mocked if you are so stubborn as to refuse to admit that you are wrong.Refer to Christian Exodus example above. There are clearly different levels of idiocy that humans can display, that's why Einstein said "There are two things that are infinite; the universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not so sure about the former!"

Look, if you're going to beat people over the head for not knowing the truth, whether or not it's due to their own ignorance and you're not willing to even give them the benefit of the doubt once, then I would hate to see your children any number of years from now.


ALL THIS SAID, the rest of my remarks will be in the original topic.

[nice gaijin]

his post gave the impression that if you think learning japanese is hard, you are wrong. I've seen several of his posts in that thread and in others that leave that taste in my mouth.

PLF was countering with the same kind of opinion, he just had more ammunition at his disposal.

[koku]

oh god pierro is in here. ok dude hold back and plz sush. This thread isn't entirly about you. I don't like people that act like you period. General rant I just used you as a recent example.

Now I have to read all this stuff you wrote. If you really want to continue banthering, pm me.

I think that what kokujin is trying to say, is that he found Japanese an easy language to learn

yes that's right. I was speaking from my perspective, from my experiences.
you started it dude

Mabye, and I'm also ending it. This thread still has a general rant. I was just using pierro as an example because he reminded me of it.

And my name is spelled 'Pierrot' almighty linguistic genius.

like I said, if you still want to have a pissing war pm. everything I said is how things have been TO ME. If you think I haven't had enough experience, or somehow my friends opinion means less(no matter how many langues they know, no matter how long they've studied japanese), so be it; I can't change that.

but like i've said, im DONE with it. I said way too much stuff people didn't want to hear to change their opinions or make them significantly nicer. so quit it pieero. go piss off someone else. And yes, you are not always right either. People can disagree with each other and not rip each others heads off.

[Jay]

If you really want to continue banthering, pm me.

You started it dude.

[Pierrot le Fou]

I think that what kokujin is trying to say, is that he found Japanese an easy language to learn, and stated as such, and then other people came along and "tore apart his notion", to quote you, flat-out denying that Japanese is easy to learn.

Perhaps the lines just got crossed, but from what he's said in various threads and on IM just made me think this might be the reason.

I'm not in any way taking sides, but this happens in my family a lot, where one person is of one opinion and then the next person comes along and states a fact that no, it is NOT right what the other person thinks.

Thoughts?
You see the problems with this, right Jay-Man?

Problem #1: He doesn't know Japanese, as he hasn't actually learned it yet. He's learning the basics, which is a long way from being able to comment on the difficulty of a language when you aren't even competent in it.

Problem #2: He wrote that he couldn't understand why so many people think that Japanese is hard. He spoke about how his Japanese professor thought that Japanese was easier than English, and about how he was having no trouble so far, but the basis, stemming from the thread title, is silly.

Why do people think Japanese is hard? Because the people who learned it think it's hard as evidenced by everyone in the thread.

I have no issue with him stating that he has had no problems with Japanese so far, period. However insulting all of us folks who actually know how to speak the language and have studied it far more than him by saying that we must be idiots because we think it hard is not the same thing. And if he states that we're all idiots and then wants to restate his point, then he should really apologize about that, don't you think?

I do not think that I am infalliable, I just know that on this subject, I am 100% right. And there is nothing wrong with stating that. It's backed up by, well, fact. There are plenty of times I am wrong, and on the previous forum -- believe it or not -- there were times when I admitted as much.

I will not apologize for being confident in my opinion when I'm backed up by the facts. There is no reason I should take the edge off my blade when I'm right either.

[Jay]

You see the problems with this, right Jay-Man?

Yeah, sure. I'm just putting forth suggestions. I'll shut up and go back to my corner if you want. ;)

[Pierrot le Fou]

It's not that I'm taking issue with you.

I take serious issue with the fact that kokujin is trying to justify himself over IM, as if the court of personal opinion will undo the major communication gaffes he's done here and in the other thread. It's as if he expects that if he explains himself where the people who he needs to explain himself to aren't, that it will have an effect.

I find it very difficult to take linguistic advice from someone who can't even communicate a simple opinion in his native English without mucking it up and requiring further explanation over IM.

I find it even more difficult to cope with the fact that he is whining about me flaming him when I hadn't done anything of the sort.

I take even more issue with him asking for other people's opinions, and then whining when they give them because they disagree with his original assertion.

I wonder what he'd do if I really took the piss.

He PM'd me to tell me that I was wrong, and the he was right, with an entirely different argument than he presented in the thread. I am sick of stupid politicking over an issue that was either a giant miscommunication (which with his massive linguistic skills he was entirely unable to clarify over the course of two threads and countless posts), or an incredibly dense defense of the indefensible (in which case he should concede he was wrong and just drop it).

Since he sits there and vacillates between the two without actually saying anything constructive on the topic, I guess I'm insane to expect that people should call him on that.

Maybe I'm just an optimist.

[koku]

i pmd you because you're the only person I had a personal gripe with. It's also nice how you told the contents of it and bent the facts to fit your arguement. very nice.

[Pierrot le Fou]

And you just told me in another PM to feel free to post it to the forum. The real kicker is that I have nothing personally against you. I just think that your argument was a piece of garbage, and rather than actually, y'know, coping with that you whine and act like you're being persecuted.

you were wrong

This isn't me going out of my way to be an ass, or to target you specifically, it's about you posting a half-assed opinion as some sort of fact, refusing to own up to it, asking for other's opinions, getting them, and whining some more. Then, to top it off, you make ANOTHER thread to whine about specifically me (though you claim this thread isn't about me? Golly gee). You know how I learned about this thread? From someone who PM'd me stating that he couldn't believe that you started another thread about this issue.

And it looks like you did! What a shocker.

You're being a whiney little baby about this. And you're refusing to own up to it. You're apparently IM'ing people to prove your case, PM'ing me to prove WHAT? To prove that you're right? That you're more mature than me? What?

If you have this much of an issue with me, and you certainly have carried over some form of a grudge from the last forum, then put me on ignore.

Presto, no more Pierrot.

But instead you have to continue this inane discussion rather than just putting me on ignore, apologizing, clarifying and apologizing for the miscommunication, or otherwise posting anything of value on the issue. I don't give a shit how easy your Japanese class is, or how much you're willing to study outside of class. You have no idea what your level is, nor how much you know, and you're professing to actually know something about Japanese, and Japanese language acquisition.

That is just pompous.

[Jay]

This is starting to get interesting... :D

[koku]

*grabs some of Jay's popcorn*

kokujin says: oh look, mabye pierro will argue with himself soon.

[Jay]

*grabs some of Jay's popcorn*

kokujin says: oh look, mabye pierro will argue with himself soon.

I'm not even going to bother saying anything here, because Pierrot can say it MUCH better than me.

[koku]

I'm not even going to bother saying anything here, because Pierrot can say it MUCH better than me.


i said I was on my way out of the arguement.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Which is why you keep PM'ing me, still haven't ignored me, and are pretending to somehow be a casual observer at this point?

If you haven't noticed kokujin (and it seems that you haven't), people are not leaping to your defense like you hoped they would. You keep trying to act as if Jay-Man is on your side here, and if you haven't noticed, every time you try to pull him into the argument, he backs right back out.

So please, stop trying to take the moral high ground on this one, because you don't have any at this point, and are being petty about the whole thing.

You would be far better off ignoring me, dropping the topic, and moving on to other subjects. Some friendly advice.

[koku]

i already know that I dont have people on my side. I can already tell Jay-man doesnt want to help and probably agrees with you more.

reason I keep PMing you is because the crap you want to do is PM material. Not something I feel we still need to clutter up the forum with.

Not trying to take a moral high ground. I stated my point, not many will defend it, so there's no more point in putting myself out there to defend it.

[Jay]

reason I keep PMing you is because the crap you want to do is PM material. Not something I feel we still need to clutter up the forum with.

Thing is though, YOU dragged this debate onto the forum and now you want to keep it to PMs?

I'm not taking sides, but... yeah. I'm sure you can work that one out.

[koku]

Thing is though, YOU dragged this debate onto the forum and now you want to keep it to PMs?

I'm not taking sides, but... yeah. I'm sure you can work that one out.

ya it started on the forums. It went on the forums, and eventually I felt i had enough/it's gone to the point where nothing will be solved. Probably later than the honest breaking point but still nonethes; i decided it was going no where so if I still want to say things about it, i'll pm.

don't know if that makes sense or not.

[nice gaijin]

just a request... kokujin could you please separate your sig into a few more lines, it's really long and screws up the pages' formatting.

as for the argument, I think it deserves a public stage; this is not a private debate about personal disagreements, a statement was made and you're sticking to it and defending your opinion. Taking things to PM is depriving the rest of us of one of the few good discussions this board had going for it.

[koku]

oopsies, didnt notice :P

yeah I changed it. tricky little lines.

[nice gaijin]

still showing up as really long, could you take that ---------- thing out or cut it in half? that's what's causing the problem.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Logic entirely evades you.

You aren't going to defend your point because there's no point since nobody else will defend it? Isn't that the reason to defend it if you're right? And if you're wrong, which you are, then it doesn't matter if other people will defend it with you or not.

You took it private because then at least I'd be the only one berating you, instead of me making a comment and having several other people agree with it. For whatever reason you need public acceptance to feel validated, which is why you keep talking about how your 'friends' all agree with you on this point or the other, and ignore the slew of people in the thread who disagreed with you.

Why can't you just accept that you're wrong this time, and that no amount of trying to rally people around your sinking point will change that fact?

Why do you keep defending yourself and your tactics as if somehow this is a low-blow by me, and that's the only reason you've looked so foolish in these threads?

You're the one who made this thread and the last one. You're the one who's whining about being misunderstood while being unable to actually put his thoughts into comprehendable English. And so that makes it your issue, bub.

[koku]

ummmm it's been days now are you going to let this go?

i think its easy

you say its hard

i think it will stay easy

you say it won't.

so...how about you let me worry about it? either way, topics dead leave it alone.

[nice gaijin]

This argument seems to have come to a head. No one is willing to back down and kokujin won't realize the validity (or baselessness, as the case may be) of pierrot's statements for another couple years or until he visits Japan for himself.

Would it be too much to ask of a moderator to close this thread?

and thanks for editing your sig, kokujin. much better.

[koku]

This argument seems to have come to a head. No one is willing to back down and kokujin won't realize the validity (or baselessness, as the case may be) of pierrot's statements for another couple years or until he visits Japan for himself.

Would it be too much to ask of a moderator to close this thread?

and thanks for editing your sig, kokujin. much better.

lol no problem. no i see his point. I agree with some. disagree with others.

alot of the things i see people struggle with i come to expect. relearning real japanese vs. textbook japanese, thinking differently and not trying to subtitue for english etc. but yeah, i welcome the challenge and from what i asess doenst seem to difficult others disagree which is fine but.... lol it[this thread, topic etc.] hasnt been going anywhere for a while :P

those --------s took me forever too!

[Pierrot le Fou]

No, you do NOT see my point.

Your statement:
- Japanese is not hard.

My statement (backed by every Japanese speaker on the boards):
- Japanese is one of, if not the hardest language for native English speakers to learn

Just because you are now arguing that you really meant that Japanese was easy for you (and easy in comparison to what? differential equations?) doesn't mean that's what you were originally arguing, or that we were all taking issue with your original statement which was that Japanese was anything but hard.

You know shit about Japanese.

You know shit about language acquisition.

You know shit about comparative difficulty.

Yet you rant on and on as if your opinion has any validity despite the lack of comparison, the lack of current knowledge, and the fact that you haven't even begun to learn how to communicate within the context (cultural and linguistic) of the language in either writing or speech.

So quite frankly, it's not that the argument has come to a head where we have just come to a difference of opinion, it's that the argument has me arguing against what kokujin originally said, and kokujin changing what he was arguing while still refusing to admit his original statement is wrong.

Example:
Person A: All Germans are Nazis.
Person B: Actually, most Germans are anything but Nazis, and you're being rather bigoted in making such a blanket statement.
Person A: Hey, stop flaming me, I was just saying that I met a German who was a Nazi, not that all Germans were Nazis.

Kokujin is person A in this argument. He comes in with an infuriating statement that he has no proof of, and then changes his argument and starts whining about people being mean to him when we state the obvious. We're currently at a point where I'm arguing that he should apologize/admit he's wrong for stating that all Germans are Nazis, and he's claiming that I'm being mean and misunderstanding him, blah blah blah, despite that about 10 people interpreted his original post in the same way.

So quite frankly, I'll be damned if somehow this is just a 'difference of opinion' rather than a stubborn kid who has no clue about he's talking about trying to alter the facts of what he was talking about because he was proved flat-out wrong and doesn't have the sack to own up to it.

I will re-state that all he has to do is either admit that he mis-spoke and apologize for the miscommunication, or provide some proof that Japanese, in fact, is an easy language to learn (anecdotal evidence from a beginner is not evidence, but opinion), or admit that he has no idea what he's talking about and was wrong from step one.

This whole hiding behind whining about people being mean thing while entirely changing his thesis statement is bullshit. Why are people going easy on him for this? I may be enough of an asshole for 10 people, but he's plainly flat-out wrong and not conceding it at all. Read the first post in the other thread.

[PopCulturePooka]

Seriously Pierrot... Isn't this like wailing on a downes sydrome kid by this point?

[mugen]

kokujin, why you acting like a little bitch. pierrot you to.

is this considerd spam?

[MeneerDijk]

No, it's considered flaming, please don't. LEt these two champs fight it out and don't fuel their fire

[akitaka]

I'm agreeing with Pooky in a half-hearted sort of way. All of the logic in the world cannot dessipate stubbornnes; and it's not like anyone will be losing anyways. If Kokujin wants to prove a valid point he'll have to show us some example of writing. If Pierrot wants his point across then he just says his bit and stands aside. In the end, we need to mod these posts out more...(then again, I do find reading them to be rather amusing).

MeneerDijk is right, I think.

[Henjin]

Seriously Pierrot... Isn't this like wailing on a downes sydrome kid by this point?

http://forums.ravensoft.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/withstupid.gif

You won, dude. Let him crawl back to his short bus.

[koku]

*sigh*

ok pierro, to make you happy.

this is from my first post.

how ridicilously incosistant and HARD english is to learn compared to Japanese.


I think that clues you at what I'm comparing. Japanese and English.
second post

Have you for example looked at plurals?(what sort of inspired me to make this thread).

Some of the stuff in egnlish doesnt make sense.

you know the things like Geese and Flock. You get the idea i could google lists of these.

Look, english AGAIN.

third post

I've read that site it's funny. You can be a jerk, i'm being one as you can see.


I honestly think what i've learned so far is very easy.


at the VERY LEAST

it does NOT merit, "wow you're learning Japanese?? That must be so HARD!"

Hey lookie, I mentioned, what i've learned so far.

Also, by this point, i've already compared it to english twice.

Need I repeat i've stated, "WHAT I'VE LEARNED" I even put I think. This is before you turned all flame-man on me. Before someone punched me to change my arguements. Before.

Now at post 4, this is after you came in and everyone was getting all "rar rar" a bit.

the classes are brainlessly easy. Can't blame me for what I've been exposed to. Only way for me to learn it, is through classes. year 1, 2 or 3 it's not going to matter. The one's that are disagreeing with me completly because I said it was easy, take a class here. Something gets explained, learned, then you waist almost a week until the slow people who are still not grasping this is a seperate langauge with seperate rules to figure it out.

see once again talking about the classes. This is into the argument where I'm willing to find common ground. Because even though in my first 3 posts I compared Japanese to english twice, and mentioned "what i've learned." everyone seems to think I'm saying "Japanese is super easy all of it all of it, and you are stupid." The one ass type comment I made. "I don't know what your learning habits are, but I'm attacking it," the post after that I told henjin "you can be a jerk[to me too] because I was being one too :P."

ok back to the 4th post.

Two, challenging or not, I welcome it. If 20 million people learn it it can't be that impossible. I guess it's hard for me to voice my opinion because it seems like i'm taking credit away from all the people here who are fluent or near fluent.


see that? that's pretty much me going "ok people, don't take stuff i said before the wrong way. At this point i'm trying to wave the crowd down because a few people were taking things the wrong way.

Now this is the part of the conversation I think you have a problem with Pierro.

still 4th post

Mabye I should restate, Japanese taught in american colleges makes it seem very easy. And for the record, there were a few posters who are in year 3 and 4 that say the same things. So you can't be too harsh on me for being an early student.


This is pretty much where I make my statement nicer, because I DIDN'T want to get into a brawl. I've compared it to english twice, I've mentioned "i think so far what I have learned is easy, and the things i've been told from year 3 and 4 students." Yet for some reason I'm still pissing off the fluent/near fluent bunch in Japan.

You keep saying my entire arguement was Japanese is easy, no. That's what the hell I was able to fit into the title. Read my posts sometimes. Even in the first post I'm comparing it to english. IN my second post i'm doing it again. In my third I even put "what i've learned in class." In that same post I write that I don't feel it doesn't merit comments like "omfg japanese is so difficult genius you."

Post 4 once again I mention classes. Classes. And by the end of post 4, since people are still taking it the wrong way, I throw in a compromise.

And even after all that, which I think seems pretty clear and nice.

I get to read things like

Henjin: kokujin sounds like an ESL student nerf nerf

Pierro: you dont know shit(uhh mabye if you read what I wrote)
etc.


By my 5th post it was pretty obvouis I was mad. Even then I managed to repeat some of the stuff I meant in posts 1-4.

stuff in 5th post, I still don't know why you don't know what I'm trying to say....

Post 5

And you have to remember when i say easy i mean it doesn't merit the stupid comments I get and the fact that Japanese compared to English doesn't look so tough anymore.
you have to read the context of my post. I think japanese is easy when compared to comments like "omfg! japanese!! whooaoa i bet that's hard."


I'm also comparing it to english. English is a fudjing mess. English is very inconsistant. Alot of times, even native speakers will use the ol' "hmmm it sounds right. hmmm it looks right when i read it" method to figure out if soemthing is correct or not; The language is just so out of place sometimes people don't know.



I even take in/agree with some of the stuff you're saying here.
Yes I believe what I'm learning now and what I'd learn by being immersed in the language are two different things.

Yes i give you more credit because you live there and i'm just studying and take what I know from other students who are 1-3rd years.

yeah...and even after that no one listenst o "comparing it to english, comparing it to english, comparing it to overexagerated comments, comparing it to english. things i've learned, japaanese taught to classes. I welcome the challenge[of going there and re-learning].

So thanks for saying I have down syndrome, really lets me know you're listening.

[Henjin]

So thanks for saying I have down syndrome, really lets me know you're listening.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=simile
Yet more proof of your lack of mastery/comprehension of even the English language. He didn't say you had Downs.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Daddy wasn't there.....

[Pierrot le Fou]

Hoo boy kokujin. Out of the flames and into the fire you go.*

* This is an English expression, not to be confused with flames in a forum, just so you don't get confused.

Let's quote your ACTUAL first post and analyze, by parsing English syntax and grammar, what you ACTUALLY said, rather than just flipping around from post to post out of context to try to prove a point that you weren't making.

Myth: "You're learning Japanese!? WOW that must be HARD!"

:confused: um.....no. I hear this alot, and i'm sure many students themselves hear it aswell. I hope i'm not the only person who hears this and thinks..."if they only knew better."

To this comment: You're learning Japanese? WOW that must be hard. you respond um.....no.

To put this in plain language, "Is Japanese hard? No it isn't."

Furthermore, you think that you know better than everyone who says that it's hard. How do I know this? I hope i'm not the only person who hears this and thinks..."if they only knew better.

My first day of learning Japanese my teacher(who's also Japanese) spent about half the time comparing English and Japanese. The things he was comparing where things like

"how many ways are there to say the letter "a" in english?"

"how many ways are there to say the letter "a" in japanese?"

Things like that. But it didn't stop at pronuncation and spelling of course. Long story short, in about 1 hours worth of casual conversation he did a pretty good job at showing everyone how ridicilously incosistant and HARD english is to learn compared to Japanese.

This doesn't state that English is harder than Japanese. It states that your Japanese professor did a good job of showing that for HIM English is harder than Japanese.

Anyone who knows anything knows that we base our language learning from a baseline of our native language. Languages that are grammatically similar (French and Spanish for instance) will be easy for someone who has the other of the two languages as a baseline. Languages that are grammatically dissimilar (Japanese and English) will be hard for someone who has either of the two languages as their baseline.

But don't take my word for it...


i'm korean. the way that japanese is structured and built, grammatically, is incredibly easy to me. the examples of the going to a friend's house and the eating/hungry thing? exactly the same in korean as in japanese.

Source: Post #36 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8159&postcount=36)

What you're comparing isn't how difficult it is to learn English versus Japanese in a vaccuum with no prior language, you're comparing how difficult first year Japanese is to your professor's speech about the oddities of English. Real academic of you there.

It's pretty comical actually. So i'm going to end my introduction post here. Anyone who's taking japanese or learning it, or speaks it very well dive in and throw in some insight. So share what you know and what you've experienced.

And then here's the real kicker for me. After all this ranting about how you know better, about how you know how hard English is in comparison to Japanese, you ask for other people's opinions. And what, pray tell, was the first opinion?

For some people, it really is hard. Different people have different capacities for learning foreign languages.

And the next one?

Japanese is hard to learn if you speak English and English is hard to learn if you speak Japanese. I think both are in the top 10 most difficult mainstream languages to learn.

It continues along in the same vein for most of the first few comments there. You can go and check if you'd like. So what do you respond to the slew of people who argue that it isn't actually as easy as you're making it out to be...?

i dont know what you guys are learning, or what your learning habits are, but i'm attacking it.

So now you're attacking the learning habits of all the people who said it was difficult, despite the fact that a majority of the people who did complain know Japanese far far far better than you do. If someone thinks Japanese is hard and knows more Japanese than you, rather than accept the insight you asked for in the first post, you state that you want to attack their learning habits.

The implication is that people who think Japanese is hard must be lazy. And you wonder why this started an unholy shitstorm of controversy?

Japanese if fudging easy. The rules? What are you talking about? They are very structured and consistant.

Japanese is fudging easy is not a comment qualified by anything, compared to anything, or otherwise rationalized in any way. You state it as an absolute fact in the sentence after stating that anyone who thinks it's hard is clearly just not trying hard enough. Golly gee, are you starting to see my point here yet?

Have you for example looked at plurals?(what sort of inspired me to make this thread).

Some of the stuff in egnlish doesnt make sense.

you know the things like Geese and Flock. You get the idea i could google lists of these. In japanese you want plural you say how much. You want past tense there's one way for each scenerio.

There's just so many inconstiantcies with english i'ts insane if someone has to learn it.

Hoo boy. So, let me get your argument right here. Because after the second post is where I'm stopping due to time constraints, and the fact that I've already proved you utterly wrong on the basis of your two posts by quoting them in full.

Your discussion/argument goes as follows:
- I am in beginning Japanese
- I know better than the people who think that learning Japanese is hard
- My professor says that English is harder than Japanese
- I want people's insight who know/study Japanese
- Anyone who thinks Japanese is hard isn't studying enough
- Japanese is fudging easy

You ASK FOR OPINION and then insult the people who give it. You take the word of a native speaker on the ease of speaking his own language, and you take his word on the difficulty of speaking English without thinking about WHY that is the case. You are sitting there and insulting every one of us on the boards who can speak English, and you think I was out of place for mocking your thoughts that it was too easy?

You should feel lucky I didn't state things a little more harshly rather than just a simple little two phrase mock before going into why you were utterly and completely wrong.

So stop trying to justify yourself.

Let's get this straight one last time for the record...

You were wrong

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Peirrot, just drop it. We already got people with grammar problems in the world, and we don't need another "expert" in English to ruin the Forum.
Just drop it, 'cause you just started another personal flame on someone else. Why do you insist on flaming people? Oh, you said it was PEOPLE WHO START THEIR OWN CONVERSATION IN THREADS WITH NO SIGNIFICANCE TO THE SUBJECT.
Hypocrite.

[Pierrot le Fou]

And now we hear from the peanut gallery...

I stated that he knows shit. He knows shit. That isn't so much a flame as it is a statement of fact. If you were to read my above post, he stated that clearly it's my study habits that make me think that Japanese is a hard language, as opposed to the fact that this is my 4th language and that Japanese is grammatically and syntactically a far harder language than the other 2 I've learned (not counting my native language).

You're defending a little leaguer badmouthing Jason Giambi because the little-leaguer is the top batter on his team, and Giambi was in a slump. "Batting is easy! Anyone who's having trouble batting in the major leagues just isn't trying hard enough."

You can whine all you want vocabulary. You can sit here and cry because I'm not being nice to kokujin. Perhaps you should ask yourself why he felt the need to insult the entirety of the Japanese speaking portion of OP9 by stating that any difficulties they had in Japanese were because we just weren't studying hard enough when he isn't anywhere near as learned in Japanese as he pretends to be?

Personal vendetta much?

[nice gaijin]

just one point of clarity, since the original statement did confuse me at first:
Originally Posted by kokujin
i dont know what you guys are learning, or what your learning habits are, but i'm attacking it.
I think his intended use of the verb "attack" was to describe the speed he was learning the language... I think the intended subject of his last clause was the language, and not our "learning habits."

this set off bells when i first read it, but after rereading it i saw the other interpretation, which is slightly less insulting.

[Daishikaze]

To be fair to Pierrot, Kokujin did sort of call him out. In small print, I grant you, but he did deliberately reference Pierrot by name

[nice gaijin]

even if he didn't it was obvious why this thread was created: to publicly gripe about people who don't share his opinion. Pierrot was his loudest opponent in the other thread, it stands to reason he'd be targeted. Doesn't seem to be the only kokujin thread in this genre either.

[Pierrot le Fou]

It doesn't make the statement much less inflammatory though 'nice gaijin' considering the fact that he is still saying that the only reason we find it hard is because we aren't trying hard enough. Regardless of whether he's attacking our learning habits directly, or implying that it's difficult because of our learning habits, it only changes the means of delivering the offense though not the offense itself.

[Henjin]

just one point of clarity, since the original statement did confuse me at first:

I think his intended use of the verb "attack" was to describe the speed he was learning the language... I think the intended subject of his last clause was the language, and not our "learning habits."

this set off bells when i first read it, but after rereading it i saw the other interpretation, which is slightly less insulting.

I think if that is what he really meant, he would've said so by now... Especially in light of all the backpedaling he's been doing lately.

[koku]

i really wonder though, why you quoted everything but the fact that I've said in my arguement that

-I'm comparing Japanese to English

I-'m comparing how hard Japanese is to how much people assume it is.

-I even said "what i've learned in class so far, what i've seen and heard from friends in higher years."

Infact, i even said after you got so mad because you thought I was attacking people, "japanese taught in colleges."

I said all these things. Some of them more than once.


Why oh why do you skip that?? And to the comment "i don't know what you're learning habits are but i'm attacking it."

the reply right after that, I admited to making a jerk/ass comment.

really man, what do you want to hear? because i won't lie to please you.

ah let it die. Pierro only wants to listen to part of what I said. here if it makes you feel better, I'm wrong about the stuff you want to quote. Let's just ignore everything else.

Here I got an idea.

Two stubborn opionated people will never settle an arguement. So pierro, I'll toss in the towel. Even though I felt you only listened to part of my arguement, i'm just going to say i'm wrong about everyrhing. wrong wrong wrong. dead wrong. all wrong. Even though I mentioned i wasn't trying to piss anyone off or call anyone here stupid, i'm wrong about that too. I obvouisly was making personal attack at people.

wrong wrong wrong. the end.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Skip it? No. I just didn't get to it. You know why? Because you didn't originally make that distinction, you didn't explain what you meant, and you spoke down to all of us who find the language difficult when you are a beginner student and didn't even bother to qualify your opening remarks with that.

You didn't say, "Japanese is easy for me" you said "You're learning Japanese!? WOW that must be HARD!" umm.....no. Post #1 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7995&postcount=1)

You didn't say, "The Japanese I've learned so far is easy" you said Japanese if fudging easy. The rules? What are you talking about? They are very structured and consistant. Post #11 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8031&postcount=11)

Those are the first two posts you made to the thread. You are wrong here, period. And I don't need to read posts #15 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8037&postcount=15) #19 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8049&postcount=19) #24 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8084&postcount=24) #27 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8089&postcount=27) or #98 (http://outpostnine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8551&postcount=98) to listen to you making excuses for fucking up on the first post.

Your problem is that you crave acceptance. Even while qualifying all your statements in your third post, you used your 4th post to sit there and point out that your original statement was still valid, because while you're just a first year, 3rd years also agree with you, therefore it's valid. Ignore the fact that people who are of a far higher level than 3rd year sincerely disagree in the thread when you asked for their experiences on the matter.

This also feeds into why you made a post like there. You want to try to get all this support against big bad Pierrot because I (rightly) made a fool out of you for insulting remarks made towards people who think differently than you.

You want to have this stop? Then apologize, and stop making excuses for making a stupid fucking statement that could have been fixed on the first page of that forum by saying, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that Japanese is easy for everyone, or an easy language, and I didn't intend to suggest that anyone who finds it hard just isn't trying hard enough. I am a first year student and have found what I studied so far to be a lot easier than what I expected."

But you didn't do that. Instead you tried to change your argument mid-thread, you tried to dole up support by going back on what you originally stated, and you never apologized. Then you decided to create an entirely separate thread on the subject because you were getting creamed in the other one and felt the need for public support.

You're being a baby about this. And it seems like your plan with this thread backfired as well.

So why not just apologize and get on with it? Are you somehow hoping that you'll break my will with your PMs to have me 'kokujin with you' whatever the fuck that means? Are you assuming that I'll magically forget that you insulted my intelligence and my Japanese knowledge despite not even speaking that language -- or any other language -- yourself, and knowing nothing about secondary language acquisition?

When I insult you, I do it directly, and I don't apologize for stating what I believe to be true. You on the other hand pull this passive-aggressive bullshit off and expect sympathy when people call you on it, while at the same time pretending that you were never being mean to begin with. Boo-hoo.

Put up or shut up.

[D-pad]

I'm a bird! "Caw Caw!"

[koku]

pierro, why the hell are you still posting? look above you and read someoen elses post for a change. I have a giant paragraph of the apology you so want already there.

you're still picking and choosing. bottom half of post 2 is me comparing it to englis-
ah what the hell.

LOOK above where you posted. Mabye i should post it again for you.

[qote=the post right above you once again]
Two stubborn opionated people will never settle an arguement. So pierro, I'll toss in the towel. Even though I felt you only listened to part of my arguement, i'm just going to say i'm wrong about everyrhing. wrong wrong wrong. dead wrong. all wrong. Even though I mentioned i wasn't trying to piss anyone off or call anyone here stupid, i'm wrong about that too. I obvouisly was making personal attack at people.[/quote]

[Pierrot le Fou]

You haven't said sorry once.

You have sat there and shown how you went back on your previous statements, you have shown how you changed your argument, but you neither apologized for changing your argument or for your prior posts.

Congratulations for changing your argument, but that doesn't somehow magically erase the fact that it wasn't your original argument, and that your original argument was insulting to all of us Japanese speakers on the forums. Congratulations for being a prick and refusing to concede that you fucked up publicly without having to qualify it with actually being right.

You're being an ass. Period.

And I apologize for posting your 'private' message, but let's let the real kokujin shine:

I havent said a thing that deserves to be in a thread. it's a PERSONAL MESSAGE.

as in, it only does YOU good reading it. um.....that's just spam if i post it.

once again though, why so whiny? I dont want to jump to conclusions.

does it have anything to do with beign 25 and not knowing what you want to do in life? is it stress? have you always been like this?

I mean i've seen people that like to argue soemtimes(like me). But man, you take it to a whole new level. With some kid you don't know over the internet. who's 6 years younger than you.

I don't get it.

I said you didn't know shit when you didn't. You on the other hand have the nerve, after I tell you not to send me PMs on the subject and to stick it in a public thread if it has to be said, to send me an incredibly patronizing dick-headed PM implying that I am immature, taking veiled shots at my position in life, and my character.

You're being an ass, and trying to get away with it in a passive-aggressive way. That is just an assholish thing to do.

You're wrong. You're so wrong it aches. Your obtuseness has been compared on this thread to a kid with down syndrome. And you're still not getting it. But beyond not getting it, you are sending incredibly insulting PMs, constantly insulting my maturity, while still standing behind two posts which were so wrong that you contradicted them yourself immediately afterwards because you knew they were so wrong.

You don't have the sack to apologize for being an insulting little shit who knew nothing about what he was talking about, and you don't have the sack to own up to being wrong and therefore having changed your argument.

You are an egotistical snot of the nth degree on this topic, and just like on the thread on the old forum you refuse to have the sack to own up to it. Look at the comments on this thread alone:

NOTE: I don't think this about you, Pierrot.

I ain't getting involved here Koku. Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.

Not to try and bust your bubble, I think it was apparent that Pierrot would have reacted in the way he had with your post, considering his previous ones. He admits, himself, that he can be an asshole, but that's considering that the way in which he constructs his sentences; blunt, and in some cases, putting him on top. With that in mind, it's only best to sit back and nod when he takes a swing. A lot of times he's correct; he's able to put some unbiased info that's on-topic, and this is sometimes counter-set by his sharp tongue. I just ignore any apparent flames and read on; and if you don't want him to badger you, do the same.

Not to sound mean, but it would probably be in his best interest to do the same as well, unless he was willing to change his tone. I don't think he'll be doing that, though.

Hmm. What a rant. At least you're honest, though.

(end online preaching)

I love me some Pierrot.

One of this boards quality members.

Quality.

Here's a story:

Person A walks into a room of people studying for a test. He tells them all that the test is the easiest thing in the world. If they think it's hard, they're doing it wrong. The people ask him how much he knows about the subject. He responds that he just started learning, but hey, it's easy as all heck. Several persons, we'll call them persions B-Z respond that they are much farther along in said subject, and believe them, it's not easy. Person A says they're doing it wrong. Understandably, Persons B-Z get upset. Person A then wants to know why everyone is picking on him.

I heard that story somewhere... Thought it was funny and I'd share.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kokujin, you started your thread talking about how easy Japanese is for you. I'm so glad you're confident and optimistic about Japanese!

I wonder how you study and practice the language; I searched through all of your posts, and from what I saw skimming through your 220+ posts was that you haven't used kana or kanji once, let alone post in Japanese. I found this extremely ironic. Perhaps instead of telling us how easy the language is for you in English, you could explain this to us in Japanese?

or maybe you could join us in one of the "learn japanese" threads and aid us in answering questions and explaining the more complicated concepts, instead of getting bitter when people don't share in your hubris.
In case you missed the joke in this one, his entire post is entire sarcasm save the first phrase

hehe...

Anyway... I dunno. When I read the statement that was something along the lines of "Japanese is easy"... I felt about - that big... its not.

Here's a great one, because it's your own damned quote:

Guess I just misinterpreted this:
i dont know what you guys are learning, or what your learning habits are, but i'm attacking it.

pierro pissed me off.

Know why that's funny? Because you made that comment before I had even posted in the other thread, so you didn't make the comment because I pissed you off, as I hadn't even posted yet. Congrats on that one.

Kokujin, he has a point. You could try not responding instead. Instead, now we've got an entire thread dedicated to flaming another person. Seriously, for Christ's sake, this is getting ridiculous.

You started it dude.
That was directed at you if you were unsure

Kokujin, you were wrong, and it isn't one stubborn person against another, it's half the people on the damned board calling you out, and you blaming me for things I didn't even do (like pissing you off before the comment about attacking our Japanese learning habits). You're wrong. Deal with it.

[koku]

um....the only person im still mad at is you. I say i'm wrong to get you to trap it and you still don't. you still continue to bash and insult. so when I give you a taste of your medicine you flip out and quote a whole bunch of things to try and piss me off in return.

*claps* i'm proud of you, I really am.

I apologize to anyone else that I offended by saying Japanese was easy. I think it's easy for me, and i'm still optomistic about the future. But for Pierro, i really don't care if i offended you because you decided to play ball even after I mentioned it wasn't personal.

so have fun with this thread because it still hsan't went anywhere.

[Pierrot le Fou]

um....the only person im still mad at is you. I say i'm wrong to get you to trap it and you still don't. you still continue to bash and insult. so when I give you a taste of your medicine you flip out and quote a whole bunch of things to try and piss me off in return.

*claps* i'm proud of you, I really am.

I apologize to anyone else that I offended by saying Japanese was easy. I think it's easy for me, and i'm still optomistic about the future. But for Pierro, i really don't care if i offended you because you decided to play ball even after I mentioned it wasn't personal.

so have fun with this thread because it still hsan't went anywhere.

Actually, it has gone somewhere. You apologized to everyone else.

Doesn't change the fact that now you're being a baby about it and taking it personally (and has been personal for quite a while stemming from the last set of forums and said thread, and you've held a grudge ever since whereas I haven't really given a shit save times you stick your foot in your mouth like this one but refuse to mention it). But I can live with that.

I'll even forgive you for being entirely incompetent when it comes to spelling my name.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Just Drop It.

[akitaka]

Hmm. Yeah, only I don't think the mindset and tone has changed. You two are still arguing, which seemed to be the whole focus of this event. In any case, apology accepted.

You two should hold hands, or something. I think this has been the longest argument on OP9 so far.

[PopCulturePooka]

My god I love wreckings.

This is a post I love.

Ergo its a wrecking.

Who got wrecked?


I wonder?

[PopCulturePooka]

User title for Kokujin:
Owned and operated by PLF

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Okay, this is gettin' way outta hand here.

Pooka, don't jab Kokujin with a 100 metre shtick.

Pierrot, stop flamin' on others for Az's sake.

And Moderators, if you haven't been noticing after 5 pages already, lock this shit up.

[D-pad]

In before lock!

[PopCulturePooka]

Peirrot, just drop it. We already got people with grammar problems in the world, and we don't need another "expert" in English to ruin the Forum.
Just drop it, 'cause you just started another personal flame on someone else. Why do you insist on flaming people? Oh, you said it was PEOPLE WHO START THEIR OWN CONVERSATION IN THREADS WITH NO SIGNIFICANCE TO THE SUBJECT.
Hypocrite.
Little boy, didn't mumma ever tell ya kids should be seen and not heard? Because she should have. This here is kokujin getting what was coming too him. Like many have rightly pointed out, he started this, he took an issue to a person with more life experience and knowledge educating him on an issue he was cleary misinformed about. In fact pierrot's original post, the very post that sent kokujin flying of the handle, was no different or anymore insulting than the posts from any others on that topic. The fact that kokujin took offence to pierrots post, and pierrot's post ONLY shows taht kokujin has personal issues with pierrot. He reacted like an infant and lashed out at his educator and now he can't stand the heat and is backpeddling fast. So fast that the smell of backpeddle grease is overpowering.

There is very little risk of the forum being ruined by people who can articulately and logically destroy another argument. There is a risk of a forum going downhill when the 'victim' can't take his lumps.

What is happening is very much on topic with the thread subject. See, boy, some people are smart. We saw through the thinly veiled and transperant 'in general' thread kokujin started. We knew what it was, and who it was aimed at the moment he pressed submit. He is not fooling anyone. Therefore pierrot is not going off topic when this whole topic is about him and the fact that kokujin can't seperate adult debate from personal attacks.

You also seem deeply misguided about what pierrot, myself and others refer to as off topic spamming. This is not what we think is ruining the forum. Dipshit conversation from the young children on this board who lack the attention span to converse like adults (read: you) and go off into useless banter about inane shit is what we take issue with. You would do well to remember that if you have capacity too.



Pooka, don't jab Kokujin with a 100 metre shtick.And why not? The boy doesn't know when to give in and scamper of. He continues to think that prodding at pierrot will somehow make himself look better. It doesn't seem to be working. Really.

Pierrot, stop flamin' on others for Az's sake.I'd like to see evidence anyone that that pierrot is flaming, and if he is, that its unprovoked. The fact that you don't ask kokujin to cut it is also speaking volumes.

And Moderators, if you haven't been noticing after 5 pages already, lock this shit up.
I don't see why this should be locked at all.
You are the only here screaming to let it drop, while showing an obvious bias about which people should do the dropping.

How about you scamper off and do whatever you kids do to kill time. That will be one less person causing this thread to continue.


This son, this is what you call a flame. Learn it, live it, love it.

[JudoPorkChop]

My dick's bigger!

No, My dick's bigger!

No, no, My dick's bigger!

*sigh*

[PopCulturePooka]

My dick's bigger!

No, My dick's bigger!

No, no, My dick's bigger!

*sigh*
Actually my dicks pretty standard in length. :(

[D-pad]

Ah, but mine is the extended edition. (get it?)

[PopCulturePooka]

Ah, but mine is the extended edition. (get it?)
I was thinking the never before seen directors cut?

[Kustom]

there ARE people that do all the things you f'n can't. So stop saying its near impossible.

I'll believe that in 6 years, when all your hard work has led you to native level and you send us a tape (you said you would achieve it by then)... :p In the meantime, forgive me if I remain a doubting Thomas...


If you want me to show restraint towards the person who claims in the face of overwhelming evidence that 1=2 because his friends disagree, then you don't know me very well. Idiocy is idiocy. And there's no reason to give people the cockamamied idea that idiocy is excusable, and should be coddled. Make an idiotic point in the face of overwhelming evidence, and you deserve to be mocked if you are so stubborn as to refuse to admit that you are wrong.

You must be popular in Japan :D

I don't know about that last thread, but I do remember well the thread on the old forums where Kokujin asked people how long it would take to become native level in Japanese... Then a perfectly friendly guy who was a walking encyclopedia on linguistics proceeded to explain in a page-long post why it was actually impossible to speak exactly like a native listing a dozen valid arguments and ended saying "Good luck, hope this helps"... And then in return got flamed by Kokujin for being a pessimistic ass trying to demotivate him (Keep in mind his original question was "Can I get to the native level?", the poor guy had just answered "no, but you can come close").

Then they procedeed arguing for 3 pages with the linguistics guy listing more sources and agruments (and always patiently and politely) while Kokujin kept answering "nay, don't believe you. You're trying to bring me down, haha it won't work!"
Eventually Pierrot kicked in (I love how he started his post: "I don't mean to be a rude prick, but I was made that way...") and it became a full scale war...

So this shit is not new, and I fear it will go on in countless threads until the end of days. So please, guys, don't ask people their opinions if you're not prepared to listen... And maybe Pierrot could use a little more diplomacy, but he might not feel like it on this particular thread...

[Henjin]

We've got two stubborn guys, but one's eloquent and shows some restraint while the other is... less of that.

[akitaka]

If Pierrot manages more diplomacy, then I think Kokujin should be obligated to write for us. Where are the mods, anyways?

[Henjin]

then I think Kokujin should be obligated to write for us.

What do you mean, 'write for us?'

[akitaka]

日本語。片仮名と平仮名もいいですけどコクジンの漢字使い方が見たいと思っている。

Please correct any mistakes or overburdening kanji; I still really, really suck.

[Henjin]

コクジンはカタカナとひらがなも使っていないみたいだ。ロマジさえ使っていない。

[hapacheese]

Wow... I literally think that's the *first* time I've seen someone use the kanji for Katakana and Hiragana. It's just... weird.


And Pooka, that was a pretty solid pwning. I give you an 8.5/10. :thumbs up:

[Henjin]

Wow... I literally think that's the *first* time I've seen someone use the kanji for Katakana and Hiragana. It's just... weird.


I had to look it up... Though now that I think about it, I *knew* the kanji fir katakana. At least I recognized the 'kata,' but my retarded self was reading 「名」 as 'mei.'

[Life25Karma]

I am currently learning Japanese, and so far I find it easy to learn, although I know that there is quite a long road ahead. I began studying Japanese last year, where as the year previously I dropped out of the class due to being lazy(really bites seeing as I wanted to learn since childhood)

Well, around last Summer, I decided that I was not going to give up learning Japanese, so I picked up a basic book on numbers, words, etc. I later followed up on that by learning Hiragana. I now know how to read Hiragana(46 characters). This was done due to my own will to learn. I am still learning, and believe it or not, next week I start my Japanese 101 class.

....Long Story Short: You Wanna Learn Something? Do It Now, Think Later. :cool:

[akitaka]

Wow... I literally think that's the *first* time I've seen someone use the kanji for Katakana and Hiragana. It's just... weird.

I cheated. As I said, I still suck; I don't know what kanji is too complex for everyday use. I didn't think they used kana/hiragana's kanji, but did it anyways to be sure.

JPN201 had started today and it was like a really bad warm up session.

[PopCulturePooka]

Idiot proofing bump