Beauty vs Vanity

[more cheerios]

Beauty. Something to be flaunted or something to be kept in control?

Whatever happened to modesty?
On another forum I attend, we had a conversation about whether or not 'pretty girls' should gain some modesty and shut the hell up or whether they should post multiple pictures of themselves with captions such as, "I'm far more beautiful than you." There was this one chick who would post at least ten pictures a day of herself, always with cocky captions. When I and a few members brought it up with the moderators and other members, we got a, "She's hot, who cares?"

But there was another girl, who wasn't quite attractive, who used to post pictures of herself a lot and got shot down quite a few times about the multiple posting issue. Although the 'hot one' did not.

Do you agree with this? Do you agree that just because someone is beautiful they have the right to ignore common courtesy to the other members and post partially nude/cocky/annoying pictures in the PYP (Post Your Photo) threads?

Modesty isn't a bad thing, but it seems to be in rapid decline. Just look at the clothing market that started in the early 90's. Clothes for young girls are being mass produced with labels such as this:

- Princess
- Bitch
- I'M HOT (on front) YOU'RE NOT (on back)
- Sexy Devil
- Queen of the World
- Other self-obsessed phrases that make me want to vomit.

And look at that one hip-hop song that came out...
"Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me? Don't you wish your girlfriend was a freak like me? Dontcha?"

And it goes on that she knows his girlfriend loves him, but he should break up with his girlfriend because she is 'hotter' than his girlfriend and would 'love him' just the same.

Stuff like that pisses me off. Vanity is rediculous and I think it gives a bad image to our daughters of the next generation. I don't want society to return to the dark ages where women are forced to wear dresses. Hell, dress sexy, wear just a bra for all I care just take your head out of the mirror and look around for once in a while. There's nothing wrong with confidence and self-value. I totally respect women who can stand up and say, "I'm beautiful."
There's a difference between vanity and self-beauty. Sometimes I think the two are mixed up.

[karob]

That's just plain un-american to not be completely, absolutely... freaking in love with your self. We are after all... the center of the universe.

J/k but seriously that's what our society is turning to. It's sad that most people think image is everything.

[Loc]

Most girl's and quite a few boys (especially one of my friends) I know are completely in love with themselves and it does annoy me quite a lot. Just because they rate themselves highly, there's no need to be a bitch/asshole to other people because they aren't as "hot" as them.

We take the piss out of the really bad ones but it's like they don't get it, next time we see them it's all hugs and falseness. Ugh.

Saying that, I do tend to make better friends with the more modest people as they're usually more fun than someone who's self centered and usually pretty boring, so there are still a fair few modest people out there :)

[Trump]

The world is far far too focused on looks. It has been for a very long time. Half of the stereotypes about guys involve girls looks, and in response girls try to match those stereotypes. I hate it.

I just want to find people who care about the important things in life.

[Firefly]

Hmm. More Cheerios, I couldn't help but agree. Especially about the whole clothing for young girls thing. I walk around clothing stores and for the most part, their clothes are modled after what older girls wear (Forget Hello Kitty and Cinderella...let's go straight to "SEXY"). They have spaghetti straps, short skirts, high heels, and too top it all off a LV purse. My god. At work the other day, I rang up a girl who was around the age of, oh, twelve, and she had a shirt that showed "cleavage". I couldn't help but think "Where in Gods name are her parents? Where are they to tell her not to be in a hurry to grow up?"

When it comes to adults, perhaps the lack of a good medium is what we don't have. Some places are too modest (um, middle east?) but perhaps America is too lax. I don't know. Whatever it is, the people that feel the need to show off their bodies, force people to cheat on their girlfriends, wear revealing clothing, have their thong hang out of their jeans, etc, let them do it. There's no way to stop it, really, its going to keep happening and sometimes get worse. Just keep it to yourself that you know inside you're not like that and someday you'll make a guy happy just being who you are, even if you DON'T have a thong hanging out of your jeans :)

[Mastiker]

America is just one big, uncultured, uncivilized, "gimme yesterday", overly paced society. I love it. Hell, even the name we give ourselves (America) is selfish. There's two other countries in North America, not to mention a whole other continent with "America" in it, yet USA is known as "America".

Of course, I can't stand the self-centered obnoxious beast of a girl that parades itself as the next hottest thing. I really can't stand the heavily obese self-centered obnoxious... point is, "at least the whore is hot" kind of thinking makes sense, even if it is disgusting. I prefer girls who have the common decency to cover themselves up with clothing.

The only time it really upsets me though, is in the winter. I live in New England where it is constantly cold, winter is the worst. When girls don't cover up I just think "okay, I know that 'beauty is pain' and whatnot, but that's ridiculous." and it is.

[Praetorian]

Don't worry. It's not an America-only thing.

Girls. Would you rather get a guy that does not care for your personality by dressing hot, and being dumped 3 weeks later, or rather put on less revealing clothes and having to wait for a guy that truly cares for who you are, and not the way you look?

Don't get me wrong. I love girls that show naked tummies publically, and even in winter, and don't care if the text on it says "Sexy biatch". But would I like one as my girlfriend? No. I'm one of those guys that cares about personality, and while looks are somewhat important (as I could not be attracted to a freak, and I don't use that term loosely), personality is *everything*.

[Lettuce]

It's important that we all strive to look our best. Inside and out. Truly beautiful people don't strive to make others feel bad about themselves. I think they also don't cam-whore themselves on web forums. It's actually really pathetic so no matter how beautiful that person may look, I actually pity them for needing such reassurance.

Random [paraphrased] Quote:
"I could forgive his vanity if he hadn't insulted mine," Lizzie Bennet of Darcy, Pride & Prejudice, 2005.

[The Divine Comedy]

It makes me sad that girls, little girls even, think they have to dress "sexy" (in other words, whore-ish) to look good. My cousin is 11, buys clothes that, frankly, I'm embarassed for her to wear and constantly talks about boys boys boys SEX boys, god I can't believe she went out with him, etc. I just don't understand that kind of thing and why AT 11, she thinks she has to do that. I was still climbing trees, playing in the mud and with my large Barbie collection ( :o ) at that age. I hate how the media wants to steal our childhood away from us.

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

honestly, I think what they wear speaks volumes about their self-esteem, or lack thereof. I've made a descion on to wear clothes (in public) that show my cleavage, because my body is not for everyone to gawk at. I do make an effort to find flattering and unique clothes that express who I am, and that is not "bitch" or "hottie" or whatever (I do have a t-shirt that says, "I know I'm smart, now tell me I'm beautiful" but that's for irony). I want how I am, who I am, what I do, to be more important than that, though.

[PopCulturePooka]

I think smart people should gain some modesty and shut up and never do smart things ever!

[Idlethought]

*ahem*

http://www.chugworth.com/comic/42.gif

[Quartermaster]

Any attention whore can be defeated or subdued with enough creepy stalkerisms. Simply begin giving out their information en masse and watch them slink away. Or run away screaming.

[Glitch ErrorWeaver]

I had a dream there were clouds in my coffee. Clouds in my coffee.

*coughs*

[Pookie42]

well the fact of the matter is, what role models do girls have? its not likeppl talk about Marie Curie to younger girls. butto MRirian, even if u flaunt certain aspects, shoudl it be acceptable to flaunt it to the point where u are hurting others (andprobably realize that partof teh enjoymentof that flaunting is reasserting howmuch better u are?) someone who is securein themselves won't need to flaunt anything or tear anyone else down. Maslow's self actualized person and whatnot.

[PopCulturePooka]

Anything you falunt can hurt otehrs, and its tough shit to them in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but smarter people shouldn't dumb down because the stupid get shitty, rich people shouldn't act poor to avoid pissing of the poor and beautiful should be able to enjoy an asset they are proud of.

If you've got it, flaunt it. Don't go to absolute stupid extremes, but don't pander to the jealous people.

[Pookie42]

i agree that you shouldn't deny your own goo attributes or dumb urself down etcbut theres a difference between knowing your own worth andbeing comfortable enough not to have to flaunt it but still utilizeit to the fullest potential and rubbing ppls noses in it. obviously ppl will always be resentful or looking for ones faults but that doesn't mean its perfectly alright to give them unnecessary reason if that makes any sense.

[Komachi Angel]

I don't think there's terribly much being pushed as a role modle these days that isn't entirely based on image or sport. It's a crying shame that intellectual pursuits more often seem to be put down than supported.

Personally speaking, I dislike people who are that self-obsessed. I dislike general tight and revealing clothing, and I think it says a lot to be modest. I personally much prefer long coats and somewhat slightly subdued colours over the loud 'look at me' dolled up approach.

It's enough to drive me insane looking at people spilling out of their clothes left and right, or wearing something so big the crotch of their pants is around their shins (as I was sadly exposed to yesterday).

And what's with not tucking in shirts and generally acting like a git when you're in school? Why is that kind of behaviour considered cool? What's cool about knowing nothing, not wanting to do anything, having no aims, no drive, no desire, no ambition, no responsibility and no sense? It's enough to drive me insane, and when crap like Big Brother comes along I feel like bursting out in tears for the sheer stupidity of it all.

I also find these attitudes mentioned to be unbearably neurotic. People ought to love their minds, morals, and spirits as much as their reflections.

Quoted for truth.

[karob]

Personally speaking, I dislike people who are that self-obsessed. I dislike general tight and revealing clothing, and I think it says a lot to be modest. I personally much prefer long coats and somewhat slightly subdued colours over the loud 'look at me' dolled up approach.

It's enough to drive me insane looking at people spilling out of their clothes left and right, or wearing something so big the crotch of their pants is around their shins (as I was sadly exposed to yesterday).

Is it wrong to celebrate your body? I for one have been trying to get my body in shape and lead a healthy life. Every time I reach a goal I feel like shouting it out to everyone around me. I don't but I wonder if there is any good reason why I should not. My reasoning is it might bother someone who can't celebrate the same success I have had and I don't want to hurt their feelings. So would I be wrong to suppress what I think is wonderful about myself or are other people wrong to shun me for celebrating it?

[Komachi Angel]

Good for you, karob - it seems you have been working hard at that, and I find that commendable. I can understand your feelings on the matter, and I have no problem with that.

What I don't like is the vain, 'oh, I am so incredibly pretty' train of thought you sometimes find by people who are entirely too kept up with image and image alone. I dislike it when a person, male or female, wears clothing designed to attract sexual attention simply for the sake of attention.

This is hard to explain, but I hope you know what I am talking about. As for the clothing, well, that's just my personal preference. Some guys will go nuts for revealing attire, but that sort of thing will never earn more than a passing glance from me.

I hope you keep going with your current lifestyle if it is bringing you happiness. It is good that you have achieved something that appears to be an important goal for you - I wish you all the best for continuing to do so. :)

[more cheerios]

For your next conversation, try whether or not ugly people should know their lower place and keep quiet. That is the ignorant, hateful mentality you're aiming for, no?
What the hell are you talking about? Did you not notice I had ' 's around the phrase 'pretty girl'?
Did you even make it past my first paragraph?

[Bob]

Thats what happens when you give women rights

[karob]

Hehe... sorry... *snort...

[Mastiker]

the way I see it, girls look their best when they're not trying to. like, when they just wake up in the morning, there hairs a mess, they have no make-up on, their baggy pajamas revealing nothing... when a girl is most real, that is when she's most beautiful.

but, when i see all of a chick's breasts, and shes still wearing her shirt... i'm not saying that's a bad thing to look at... okay, say I was to walk down the road with her (her being my supposed girlfriend with her tits falling out of her shirt) and other guys were to stare at her. it would make me uncomfortable because any one of these guys could try to do something to her, and i'm not sure if i could stop her. or, say we were at a party and again, her knockers are coming out, and i can't do anything about it. well, my friends will see that and may try to make a move. the situation is one of "oh shit, what do i do?"... a girl who dresses slutty can be very smart, i have a few friends like that. but i'd prefer not to date any of them.

[Idlethought]

I suppose it's all in the quality of the person you want to attract. You may want to attract the one that turns heads, shakes her booty involuntarily when she walks, and has titties swingin everywhere. If you do, that's your thing, I'm not gonna knock you. But then don't knock the next guy for wanting the more modest, humble type. The one that keeps to herself, maybe is or is not the brightest person in the world, but cares about more than just what's revealed to the public.

Now I'm not gonna lie, I'm attracted to the 1st option. But only on a physical level, as is my blessing and my curse of having a penis. On the other hand if I did get to that booty that's all I'd see it as, booty. There would be no depth to that person.

I think that people, parents especially, should promote more depth in personality to both sons and daughters, rather than just straight up "you look good". I need to work on organizing my thoughts lol

[Mastiker]

"blessing and curse to have a penis"... that is a good one. I'm gonna have to use that every time it comes up in a conversation.

Booty being booty is exactly what I'm afraid of having, cause I'm not sure if I can handle having a commitment to that sort of thing. A one-night thing, no problem. Hell, it wouldn't even be one-night, itd be more like ten minutes.

btw, Idle, awesome avatar. orgasmic even.

[Trump]

I don't think anyone is saying there is something wrong with being smart or beautiful and taking advantage of those attributes. The problem is when people gloat about it.

It's about sportsmanship. For a football (american) example... Terrell Owens. He is a great athlete but he's an ass about it, bragging about how good he is all the time and constantly putting down his teammates when something goes wrong. He was suspended by his team for it. Now compare with Shaun Alexander or Ladanian Tomlinson. They are great athletes who have accomplished amazing things, yet their attitude is completely opposite. They support their teams and just enjoy what they are doing.

It's the same way with everything else, there are people who will be an ass about life and those who won't. The one's who are rude about their looks, their smarts, or anything else aren't worth the time of day.

[Idlethought]

Heh the only way to change this trend would be to alter the basis for human attraction lol We can't help that the initial attraction we get is physical, thats how we're wired. As long as that's true, clothing businesses are gonna manufacture clothes that appeal to that and fashions are gonna stay in that direction.

[more cheerios]

It's the same way with everything else, there are people who will be an ass about life and those who won't. The one's who are rude about their looks, their smarts, or anything else aren't worth the time of day.
I completely agree. You'll find it everywhere and it is unavoidable.

There's a difference between self-confidence and self-obsession. I was afraid that when I made this thread, people might get the wrong idea and flame me. The only person who I got a negative response from was from MRirian. And she clearly did not read my initial post, or did not understand it or just skimmed it. She completely missed my point and responded in a way that had really very little to do with the original topic. But I appreciate the rest of the responses, I really do. :)

[Roxie]

Yeah, cause the very FIRST thing that gets you interested in a girl is her well-rounded personality.

guy1: Wooahh
guy2: Yeah
guy1: She's got such an awesome vocabularly.
guy2: Yeah, gotta love that easy going nature.

I'm sometimes still strugglewith self-worth =/ looks, but this can be a hard lesson to learn when people judge SO harshly by it.

[dzee]

firstly, yay. i agree with roxie. ok that's enough. let's move on.

the desire to flaunt something will always exist as long as there is a demand for it (people want to see it, i guess). modesty is commendable, but it's hard for many people to resist being sucked into the 'mainstream culture' of flaunting/vanity/self-obsession/(i don't know what to call it anymore), and especially so when your 'hot' friend gets snitched up by the guy you like while you're left somewhere in the dust.

it's not like you'd want to date a shallow person - certainly that guy will be no real loss, but it's the feeling you get when such a thing happens. then some people begin to question their mindsets, and decide that if being 'vain' and 'loud' will get them something, better to be so than to be left behind. :)

but don't get me wrong, i'm in favor of modesty and self-confidence. self-confidence is a quiet attraction - far better than self-obsession.

personality is *everything*
once you get past the person's looks, most of the time (i believe) - sadly. ok now don't kill me again, i've had enough of your screaming *runs away*

has titties swingin everywhere
you had me laughing at that :D somehow it conjures the image of them being separate, live entities of their own!

i don't feel very clear-headed now :p so forgive me if anything's unclear, or if i got way off the original topic.

[Praetorian]

Yeah, cause the very FIRST thing that gets you interested in a girl is her well-rounded personality.

guy1: Wooahh
guy2: Yeah
guy1: She's got such an awesome vocabularly.
guy2: Yeah, gotta love that easy going nature.



Yes, actually. That is true for me, and a lot of other guys. You may have trouble believing me, but some of us are actually nice guys that don't care about "awesome booteh!", but rather qualities like intelligence (not necissarely book smarts), friendliness, shyness, and general cuteness.

[Roxie]

I didn't say you didn't care. Eventually at some point, we all care. But out on the onset? No.

[mugen]

agrees with preatorian

but i have to ad, when you see fine round booteh, you wanna hit it. it's nature. even for you prea :P. But that's all, I just want a piece off that ass. it doesn't give me a warm or pleasent feeling. things described by preatorian do

I didn't say you didn't care. Eventually at some point, we all care. But out on the onset? No.
yes, on the onset

[PopCulturePooka]

It's amazing how full of shit some guys are.

[Praetorian]

But out on the onset? No.


Yes, in fact, dressing slutty and/or looking extremely gorgeous, while it may sound weird, is a turn off for me. What I was getting at is that it's more important to be yourself. Sure, if you were a mutant with a scarred face and weighed 300 pounds, of course I wouldn't be attracted to you. But so far I've not seen ANY girl on this forum that looks bad even in the worst of pictures. If I were you, I'd not worry too much about looking good - you don't have to worry.

On the onset, between the extremely hot girl that I saw smoking a joint with her friends whilst laughing loudly and generally acting popular, or the average looking girl that sits alone near a tree reading a good book, I'd be attracted to the latter. And I'm the kind guy you'd want attracted to you, not a guy that'd ditch you in 3 weeks after he's bored of you.

[Bob]

It's amazing how full of shit some guys are.

QFT .

[Roxie]

Yes, in fact, dressing slutty and/or looking extremely gorgeous, while it may sound weird, is a turn off for me. What I was getting at is that it's more important to be yourself. Sure, if you were a mutant with a scarred face and weighed 300 pounds, of course I wouldn't be attracted to you. But so far I've not seen ANY girl on this forum that looks bad even in the worst of pictures. If I were you, I'd not worry too much about looking good - you don't have to worry.

On the onset, between the extremely hot girl that I saw smoking a joint with her friends whilst laughing loudly and generally acting popular, or the average looking girl that sits alone near a tree reading a good book, I'd be attracted to the latter. And I'm the kind guy you'd want attracted to you, not a guy that'd ditch you in 3 weeks after he's bored of you.
You're taking alot of variables into account that I was not. I meant simply walking or standing next to each other.

[Konous the Grey]

I find this subject interesting friends. I do because just recently I had an interesting self experience with Vanity. I am not the religous type mind you, but this revelation that came to me had me praising what ever powers that be that may or may not have brought me to it.

I was a sophmore in High School, I had just started out in the Main Campus of my high school, I was a afraid, I was afraid because I was a sophmore, the low end of the pole as Freshman get their own campus at my high school. However my year went by smoothly, it was what occured during this period that I frightened me. Upon stepping into my English class there were many people I instantly identified as being a part of the 'Vain' click. One was a rocker, the other a foot ball guy, who I reffered to as a jock, even in public when I was speaking with him. They both seemed very proud of themselves, very inlove with who they are, they were always making jokes about how cool they were, and how bad ass they were.

I decided immediately that they were filth, things unfit to live in the world, (that they were obviously stupid, as they were of the 'attractive' group) hoping that what ever powers that be would do them in soon, and rid the earth of them. However, I was assigned a project with these two 'Vain' persons. Over time I got to know them doing the project, and even became good friends with them, I found out that they acted so sure of themselves, simply because it was a joke, they knew in reality they weren't as great as they said they were, they were mocking people with over bloated ego's.

It was right around after the project was done that I realize.....the only person with the vain mindset.....was myself.

[PopCulturePooka]

On the onset, between the extremely hot girl that I saw smoking a joint with her friends whilst laughing loudly and generally acting popular, or the average looking girl that sits alone near a tree reading a good book, I'd be attracted to the latter. And I'm the kind guy you'd want attracted to you, not a guy that'd ditch you in 3 weeks after he's bored of you.
You are still judging on appearance and first impression, not personality.

[PopCulturePooka]

As I was going to Saint Ives, I saw to girls hanging around.

One was hot but dressed rather 'sluttily' shall we say, smoking and laughing loudly with her friends.

Another was average, alone and reading a book.

I sneered at the Hot girl with her friends and sat with the book girl. Said hi.

I started a conversation with her about her book, her life. Her voice was a rather flat monotone. As the conversation continued I realised she was just incredibly dull. No spark of life in her at all. Until I mentioned cats. The she took on a manic look, perked up and told me about her 15 cats, all named after Backstreet Boys songs. Started getting a little crazy sounding when she told me she plays dress up with them.

Leaving the Average boring and slightly nuts girl behind I walked alone and sat a few metres away to eat lunch.

'Hi'.

I turn too see the hot slutty girl standing near me.

We start talking. I'm not too into it, she doesn't look my type at all, with those slutty clothes an loud laughter. So I hope to get out soon. She starts telling me about how happy she is to have finished her genetics thesis. Genetics? Wow I study that too, and she interested in what I do and we chat about that. Then she explains that before she saw some freinds she hadn't seen for ages and wa slaughing at old times. Hmmm. She seem's rather switched on as well. She doe a bit of pot yeah, to unwind she says. 12 months of uni takes a lot out of you. She's also extremely confident and stuff, but she does dance and acting in her spare time, explains that. Hmm she isn't that bad at all. Anyway I needed to go, so I grabbed her number and called her later that night.


Shame about first impressions.

[Praetorian]

You are still judging on appearance and first impression, not personality.


True. And I admit it. But, doesn't everyone if we look at it that way? Regardless of gender? After all, there is always a first impression.

[PopCulturePooka]

True. And I admit it. But, doesn't everyone if we look at it that way? Regardless of gender? After all, there is always a first impression.
Of course everyone does. We judge by appearance all the time.

There is no going around it and no avoiding it. Its wired into our genetics. Our very instincts of survival, fitness and reproduction are affected by first impression and judging of appearance.

[Cybilcora]

The one thing that bothers me the most about vanity and self-love to the point of obliviousness is that these people don't think or care about anyone else.

[bohokitten]

honestly, I think what they wear speaks volumes about their self-esteem, or lack thereof. I've made a descion on to wear clothes (in public) that show my cleavage, because my body is not for everyone to gawk at. I do make an effort to find flattering and unique clothes that express who I am, and that is not "bitch" or "hottie" or whatever (I do have a t-shirt that says, "I know I'm smart, now tell me I'm beautiful" but that's for irony). I want how I am, who I am, what I do, to be more important than that, though.

i have 40DDD breasts, n i have a tee that says "my face is up here" with a giant glittery pink arrow pointing upwards, text being on tits.
its so funny!!!@!

[bohokitten]

personally, if i wore loose clothing id look 2 sizes bigger than i actually am. and as i'm little in height, id look like a lump. theres modesty and theres looking good. you can wear nice not loose clothing and still be modest. but spandex on some ppl should never be attempted.
i personally also prefer no makeup, even on a teen, it makes them look years older than they are, on a 30-40yo it doesnt maker them look younger. i'd prefer to spend the money i save on a good moisturiser, sunscreen, exfoliator, or a glass of water, does alot more for the face, and is alot cheaper.

[bohokitten]

I suppose it's all in the quality of the person you want to attract. You may want to attract the one that turns heads, shakes her booty involuntarily when she walks, and has titties swingin everywhere. If you do, that's your thing, I'm not gonna knock you. But then don't knock the next guy for wanting the more modest, humble type. The one that keeps to herself, maybe is or is not the brightest person in the world, but cares about more than just what's revealed to the public.

Now I'm not gonna lie, I'm attracted to the 1st option. But only on a physical level, as is my blessing and my curse of having a penis. On the other hand if I did get to that booty that's all I'd see it as, booty. There would be no depth to that person.

I think that people, parents especially, should promote more depth in personality to both sons and daughters, rather than just straight up "you look good". I need to work on organizing my thoughts lol


well maybe parents should take into consideration more depth in their kids, but that would take time n effort, n they'd start questioning everything, n rebelling cos they dont have their parents beleifs, and same goes for society.
imagine what would happen if america actually educated their youth instead of allowing them to beleive tv, and thinking aussie all ride to school in a kangaroo pouch, or WW2 began in '41, they'd have another '60's anti war hippy movement, preople wouldnt have voted bush in a second time, people would rebel at the below living wage of $5/hour, bush would be impeached for diverting national guards and money from new orleans to iraq to get his precious oil

[Idlethought]

To begin with I can't believe I wrote that lol Wow that was very elaborate for one of my online pieces.

Secondly,

well maybe parents should take into consideration more depth in their kids, but that would take time n effort, n they'd start questioning everything, n rebelling cos they dont have their parents beleifs, and same goes for society.
imagine what would happen if america actually educated their youth instead of allowing them to beleive tv, and thinking aussie all ride to school in a kangaroo pouch, or WW2 began in '41, they'd have another '60's anti war hippy movement, preople wouldnt have voted bush in a second time, people would rebel at the below living wage of $5/hour, bush would be impeached for diverting national guards and money from new orleans to iraq to get his precious oil

is that supposed to be a negative?

[slinky]

What I have found most interesting about this thread is that many of the posts feel that beauty is synonumous with sexuality.

Titties swingin' everywhere, tight round bootah, form fitting clothes, primary colors on clothing etc.

A woman can be stunning in a muted shade of dress that is not form hugging. (I'm not talking frumpy here, I'm talking, hints and tantalization.)

Leaving personality out of it, it's fascinating to me that many seem to think beauty is simply exposing the physical goods.

[Hatsumomo]

While I'm a female drawn to the males, I do find a few women attractive and it's not just outer beauty, but their personalities as well. It's a weird phenomenon. I used to find this one chick rather gorgeous, but when I got clued in on her personality (spoiled attention-whoring I'm-better-than-everyone rich girl), she became ugly to me.

Same goes with men as well. Physical attraction comes first then their personality is make-or-break.