The Sydney Riots

[Hiigarasjet]

anyone heard about them? if so i wish to hear peoples opinions.

[misterb]

uh.. was fairly quiet here. Didn't notice any riots :P I saw sumtin on the tellie abt it, but it seems like noone cared around here :P

[Angelyne]

There is a severe lack of coverage about this in the American media. Just checked CNN, Faux News, MSNBC, and just finished reading the Washington Post--not a single mention anywhere of a riot involving 5000 people (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17531782-2,00.html). Instead we're treated to:Someone pulled a prank on Wikipedia (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/11/wikipedia.ap/index.html), President Bush went to a Christmas pageant (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,178368,00.html) , and The worst season in Survivor history finally ends. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4326967/from/RS.1/). Yes, these are currently the top headlines on those websites. It really sickens me what the American media considers to be newsworthy these days.


Sorry Hiigarasjet, this probably wasn't the response you were looking for. :(

[kyaa the catlord]

100 People? You call that a riot? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3491299.stm)

I have a solution to this: Don't flee the police.

Hell, that would have solved the French ones too.

[PopCulturePooka]

100 People? You call that a riot? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3491299.stm)

I have a solution to this: Don't flee the police.

Hell, that would have solved the French ones too.
Wrong riots cupcake.

The Redfern riot was earlier this year or last.


The Cronulla Riots, Which happened this weekend, had over 5000 people.

Shocking state of affairs, but a mass lashing out against Lebenese thugs and Gangs has been a long time coming in Australia.

[Bob]

Riots in a penal colony? No wai!!!11

[kyaa the catlord]

Wrong riots cupcake.

The Redfern riot was earlier this year or last.


The Cronulla Riots, Which happened this weekend, had over 5000 people.

Shocking state of affairs, but a mass lashing out against Lebenese thugs and Gangs has been a long time coming in Australia.

Oh, well that helped narrow it down.

From the reports in the Aussie press, it sounds like a bunch of skinheads and other racists decided to act up. I'd be less eager to jump into their 'fun'.

[PopCulturePooka]

Its not really.

Its a community strinking out in anger at gangs that had been terrorising the area for months now. Every weekend gangs of lebenese youths would hit up Cronulla and pretty much randomly attack people. Even after promises by police to stop the gangs, the attacks continued. This weekend was the community starting with good intentions (a protest) getting fueled by booze and emotion into something ugly.

[PopCulturePooka]

This has been a long long time coming.

Basically Australia has racial issues. Fairly large ones.

howver this lashing out wasn't against Middle Eastern people as a whole. Or wogs. Or foreigners.

It was against a select group. Lebenese. And mainly Lebenese gangbangers and thugs. Young men. For about 10 years the lebenese gang situation has been getting steadily worse.

They are full of maciasmo and false bravado, are violent, thuggish and rapists.

Lebenese gangs are heavily involved in the drug trade in Sydney.

Lebenese gangs were responsible for a string of gang rapes aimed at Young Teenage White Aussie girls a few years back.

They also indiscriminantly beat up people, especially young white guys or Asian kids.

They also think they are above the law. They commit horrific crimes (rape, assault etc) and when arrested cry racism. When the gang rape ringleaders were sentenced to prison last year the rest of the lebenese community in Sydney reacted in outrage and almost rioted. They stood up for rapists. The victims were then threatened and a lot left Sydney.

The rest of the Lebenese community has been slow to denounce these gangs, or altogether silent.

Its been building for years.

A few months back these gangs started hitting the beach side community of Cronulla on weekends. Beating up or attacking people. Young girls were threatened and lifeguards (who in Australia are primarily volunteers). The NSW premier (akin to governor) made a press conference at Cronulla vowing better protection. Didn't work and two more lifeguards copped it.

That was a week ago. After that the residents of Cronulla started organising something for this weekend. Seemed to be a prtoest/march/community support thing. However booze and emotions made it much much uglier.

During the day on sunday is when the white (and other) residents of Cronulla got involed in the ugliness that the media is reporting.. The attacks on 'middle eastern' people (read: Lebs). The attacks on Ambos' etc.

What the reports are glossing over is what happened last night. In response to this shitstorm, lebense gangs (at least 40 cars full of em) descened on a neighboring suburb and randomly destroyed cars and property.

It's a fucked up situation, but its not a surprising one.

[kyaa the catlord]

Its not really.

Its a community strinking out in anger at gangs that had been terrorising the area for months now. Every weekend gangs of lebenese youths would hit up Cronulla and pretty much randomly attack people. Even after promises by police to stop the gangs, the attacks continued. This weekend was the community starting with good intentions (a protest) getting fueled by booze and emotion into something ugly.

Sounds like a racist rally to me. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536989-2,00.html)

"The day began with a demonstration at Cronulla where more than 5000 people gathered, chanting racist slogans and chasing and bashing individuals of Middle Eastern or Mediterranean appearance."

Yep. That's the ticket, stop thinking and just attack anyone who looks "different".

[PopCulturePooka]

Sounds like a racist rally to me. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536989-2,00.html)

"The day began with a demonstration at Cronulla where more than 5000 people gathered, chanting racist slogans and chasing and bashing individuals of Middle Eastern or Mediterranean appearance."

Yep. That's the ticket, stop thinking and just attack anyone who looks "different".
There was definately a racist element to it. But its something tahts been long simmering.

Frankly, lebenese gangbangers are scum. Pure scum. Nothing more. The reaction on Sunday was extreme, but its not an unwarrented or unexpected one.

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17469247-5001022,00.html

[kyaa the catlord]

There was definately a racist element to it. But its something tahts been long simmering.

Frankly, lebenese gangbangers are scum. Pure scum. Nothing more. The reaction on Sunday was extreme, but its not an unwarrented or unexpected one.

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17469247-5001022,00.html

"Frankly, gay paraders are scum. Pure scum. Nothing more. The reaction on Sunday was extreme, but its not an unwarrented or unexpected one."

Yep, its easy to legitimize wrong behaviour. Two wrongs still don't make a right.

[PopCulturePooka]

"Frankly, gay paraders are scum. Pure scum. Nothing more. The reaction on Sunday was extreme, but its not an unwarrented or unexpected one."

Yep, its easy to legitimize wrong behaviour. Two wrongs still don't make a right.
Heh...

Whats interesting is the media painting this as a racist bunch of whites thing.

But watch the videos carefully. Or have a clue about Cronulla. And you will notice quite a few Islanders, Aboriginals, Asian and other Europeans in the crowds rioting as well.

Of course two wrongs don't make a right. But the rioters include a lot of people who have felt scared to visit public beaches, scared of their daughters safety and very very annoyed about the lack of police action against these gangs over the past few months.

However the lack of police action, while shameful, isn't surprising. When men who gang rape 14 year old girls at gunpoint get arrested and convicted, and the community DEFENDS the rapists and assault cops, no wonder the police start questioning what the point is.

[Bob]

Heh...

Whats interesting is the media painting this as a racist bunch of whites thing.

But watch the videos carefully. Or have a clue about Cronulla. And you will notice quite a few Islanders, Aboriginals, Asian and other Europeans in the crowds rioting as well.

Of course two wrongs don't make a right. But the rioters include a lot of people who have felt scared to visit public beaches, scared of their daughters safety and very very annoyed about the lack of police action against these gangs over the past few months.

However the lack of police action, while shameful, isn't surprising. When men who gang rape 14 year old girls at gunpoint get arrested and convicted, and the community DEFENDS the rapists and assault cops, no wonder the police start questioning what the point is.

You think they're Aboriginal because they're black, dont you?

[PopCulturePooka]

One problem is the media focusing on 'racist rednecks' being the cause of this. Failing to realise that its six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[PopCulturePooka]

You think they're Aboriginal because they're black, dont you?
Nope. Because people of Aboriginal descent have different phsycial features to other 'black' people, features that are quite obvious.

Or in your rush to troll did you neglect to notice I also mentioned 'Islanders', most of which you can call 'black'.

[Bob]

Nope. Because people of Aboriginal descent have different phsycial features to other 'black' people, features that are quite obvious.

Or in your rush to troll did you neglect to notice I also mentioned 'Islanders', most of which you can call 'black'.

I didn't know which island you were talking about, you could have meant england

[Jay]

In a talk about Australian riots? :rolleyes:

[PopCulturePooka]

I didn't know which island you were talking about, you could have meant england
When Aussies say Islander, we mean Torres Strait Islanders, Samoans, Papau New Guineans and other Pacific Islanders. Islander is actually the term most Islanders call themselves by.

[kyaa the catlord]

One problem is the media focusing on 'racist rednecks' being the cause of this. Failing to realise that its six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Well, when the "rioters" beat up people just for the color of their skin and the way they look, it sure sounds like a racist attack to me. All you need are some white sheets, a length of rope and maybe a nice cross to burn...

[Jay]

Well, when the "rioters" beat up people just for the color of their skin and the way they look, it sure sounds like a racist attack to me. All you need are some white sheets, a length of rope and maybe a nice cross to burn...

The rioters are beating up the Lebanese thugs because they (the Lebs) have been running rampant on the community and getting away with it for too long, and as soon as someone else hits back, they cry racism and THEY get defended. White Christianity is supposed to be the majority in Australia - it's not much of a position of power when all you can do is sit back and cop the racist accusations, is it?

[kyaa the catlord]

The rioters are beating up the Lebanese thugs because they (the Lebs) have been running rampant on the community and getting away with it for too long, and as soon as someone else hits back, they cry racism and THEY get defended. White Christianity is supposed to be the majority in Australia - it's not much of a position of power when all you can do is sit back and cop the racist accusations, is it?

Just because you can do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do. They went after people who "looked like" lebs. Not the actual ones, just anyone they could find who looked like they might be Lebanese.... I'd be all for it if they made a concerted effort to find the gangsters, especially the ones who struck back afterwards by bashing in car windows and such, but from the reports, they just went after random "leb"-looking people.

*That* is the difference. Striking back? Go for it. But choose your target *well*, not randomly.

[Jay]

Hey, I didn't say it's right. Nor will you see me say it's right. I don't think that's the thing to do either, but I can sympathise with the people looking to give ten shades of holy old Hell to the Lebs.

[kyaa the catlord]

Hey, I didn't say it's right. Nor will you see me say it's right. I don't think that's the thing to do either, but I can sympathise with the people looking to give ten shades of holy old Hell to the Lebs.

Oh, I can understand that.... But some people in this thread are talking like it was the right thing to do. :P

Hell, when Tookie dies tomorrow, all hell is going to break loose (possibly) in the US. But for all the wrong reasons and it won't be pretty, if it happens.

[Hiigarasjet]

well people keep the opinions coming.

[Kass]

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/12/12/australia.racial.unrest.ap/index.html)...police formed a strike force to track down the instigators of the running battles that involved drunken mobs of white men yelling racial slurs, young men of Arab descent and hundreds of police.

The earlier fighting left 31 people injured, including police and paramedics. One was hospitalized after being stabbed in the back by a man police said was Arab in appearance. There were 16 arrests.

"What we have seen yesterday is something I thought I would never see in Australia and perhaps we have not seen in Australia in any of our life times and that is a mass call to violence based on race," Community Relations Commission Chairman Stepan Kerkyasharian told Sky News.


Nope. Not racist at all. That it is okay, justified or even understandable to some people that the rioters are attacking anyone who even appears to be of Arab dissent is disheartening. It pretty much proves that there is an "undercurrent of racisim" in Austaralia, no matter how vehemently their PM denies it.

It is one thing to oppose criminals and gangs and protect yourself and family, but attacking people at random is inexcusable and this is obviously based on race. Obviously. Lebanese gangs or no, the targets of this violence are NOT the gangs. The targets are random, might be Middle Eastern people on the streets. The gangs are an excuse for racists to act out with a veil of legitimacy.

PM John Howard:
"I do not accept that there is underlying racism in this country."


Denial... Not just a river in Egypt.

[whispering]

I'm with PCP with this, the population had a good reason to be pissed. While attacking everyone because of race isnt justifyed at all, i dont think it was even the case in this one.

If there would be 5000 rioters roaming the streets trying to find random lebanese to beat up. The police wouldnt be standing there in the middle of the crowd wearing shorts :eek: Even in this little country the police would have at least used riot shields. I mean if there really was a violent riot, the police would be looking more like that ->

http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/4343/riotpolicearmored5et.jpg

...and not looking like that (making arrests in the middle of the crowd without being afraid of the other rioters) ->

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085487,00.jpg

[Kass]

Reaction to a crime or not, it is racially motivated. You can try and sugar coat it and spin it all you want, but it boils down to racism. To argue it isn't racially motivated would be like arguing the LA riots after the cops who beat Rodney King were acquitted weren't racially motivated.

Sure, they were reacting to an injustice. The cops should have been convicted, but it wasn't blacks pulling other blacks from trucks and beating them unconscious. It was blacks pulling whites from trucks and beating them unconscious. The cops were white beating up a black man beyond all reason. It boiled down to racism all the way around.

Just like these riots do. White, native Australians beating up people of Middle Eastern origin (or looking like they are) and Arabs retaliating in kind. If the racial tension were not already there, this would not be happening. Riots like this don't happen because of one incident. They happen when tension reaches the flash point and one more incident sets it off.

I don't care how bad the crime was, people can be pissed, but there's no excuse or justification for this. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10430528/)

[ruaidhri]

I’ve always found that Kass doesn’t beat around the bush. She comes right to the point and I’m usually 100 percent in agreement. That is the case in this discussion. There are so many ways to say this but the simplest is probably “two wrongs do not make a right.”

The argument for the rioters is that they were provoked and were only seeking to defend themselves. Well, if they were attacked and fought off the attackers that would probably make some sense. But, the people they targeted didn’t attack them. They were not defending themselves from the Lebanese youth gangs. Instead they were attacking people simply because of their ethnic appearance. How is that not wrong? How can past crimes justify future crimes?

If it smells like racism, then that’s what it is.

While I believe the Australian government must protect their citizens from the Lebanese youth gangs I also believe they must firmly establish that they will not allow vigilantism to replace the law when dealing with criminal acts. While they must prosecute racist acts, they must also address the underlying frustrations of the Cronulla Beach residents. Doing one without the other will only exacerbate the situation.

[CrazyAce86]

I don't blame 'em. It was going to come to violence one way or another, and if the cops weren't going to do shit about it, then it's time to take it into your own hands.

Was it right to target *anyone* of possible Middle Eastern or Mediterranean descent? Hell no. Can I see how that would happen? Yeah, I can. Once worked up to a frenzy, neither the individual nor the crowd stops to think. It just becomes do first, think later.

Now that the world-- AKA everybody but the U.S.-- has seen this, I'd say some serious shit is going to hit the fan. The cops are definitely going to catch some of it, though whether or not it will do anything is up for grabs.

Racist? Yeah, but I don't believe it was intentional. It was just an act against a particular subgroup-- Lebanese gangbangers-- so it's not *technically* racist. (Gah, all my principles of sociology is coming back to me.) I suppose it could be an ethnic thing, since they're all Lebanese, but since it's only part of the Lebanese group I don't think so.

Long story short: It was going to happen one way or another. It could have been a lot worse. Now that attention has been drawn to the issue, steps to amend it can be taken.

And that's all I say about it.

[Jay]

I’ve always found that Kass doesn’t beat around the bush. She comes right to the point and I’m usually 100 percent in agreement. That is the case in this discussion. There are so many ways to say this but the simplest is probably “two wrongs do not make a right.”

Quite right, but...

The argument for the rioters is that they were provoked and were only seeking to defend themselves. Well, if they were attacked and fought off the attackers that would probably make some sense. But, the people they targeted didn’t attack them. They were not defending themselves from the Lebanese youth gangs. Instead they were attacking people simply because of their ethnic appearance. How is that not wrong? How can past crimes justify future crimes?

I'm not trying to defend my fellow citizens in any way, because attacking each and every single race that happens to be in the way is wrong. Do I condone it? No. My God, no. What I will say though, is this. We've had our hands tied for so long in this case. These multinational races could push us born-and-bred Australians around, and as soon as we snapped because we'd had enough, they go crying to the higher-ups. I know from experience. So, I'm sure, do you. And you know what the truth of the matter is? I can't do sweet bugger all to defend myself. I have to put up with being labelled a racist, beating up on this 2nd or 3rd generation Lebanese, or Arab, or Aboriginal.

I got this all throughout my schooling life, but with the Aboriginals. They consider themselves above the law, and for the most part, they get away with it. They get paid to not skip school and do what they want, for crying out loud. They were and still are very nearly freely allowed to beat up on me and others in school, and as soon as I turned around and hit back, I got punishments and detentions and suspensions. Not to mention that the Aboriginal victim called all his brothers and cousins and friends (and somehow, they all tended to have a shitload of friends and cousins) to come get me because I hurt him.

This is just an example, so please everybody leave the other stress-fractures with the
Aboriginals out of it.

If it smells like racism, then that’s what it is.

You're damn right it's racism. It started out as hitting back against the Lebanese thugs who consider themselves above the law, but now it's just random attacks against anyone who looks like they're from another race. It's a shame really, if it was just Lebanese gangs being targeted in these riots I'd say ha-ha, good job.

While I believe the Australian government must protect their citizens from the Lebanese youth gangs I also believe they must firmly establish that they will not allow vigilantism to replace the law when dealing with criminal acts. While they must prosecute racist acts, they must also address the underlying frustrations of the Cronulla Beach residents. Doing one without the other will only exacerbate the situation.

Yes.

But I suppose it's like any other country really - the higher-ups have their hands tied, because if one of the members of the majority race get persecuted, then sure, it's all well and good, they got what they deserved. But if one of the minority religious groups who migrated here get persecuted for the same crime, all of a sudden it smacks of racism. It's total bullshit in my book; you commit the crime you should reap the punishment, no matter WHAT race you are.

[Roxie]

There is a severe lack of coverage about this in the American media. Just checked CNN, Faux News, MSNBC, and just finished reading the Washington Post--not a single mention anywhere

It really sickens me what the American media considers to be newsworthy these days.
FYI, the Atlanta Journal Consitution has been running articles on this, one the front page of the website, even, since day one.

Violence Rages in Australia for 2nd Night
By MIKE CORDER
Associated Press Writer

SYDNEY, Australia — Violence spilled into a second night Monday as scores of youths drove through predominantly white suburbs of Sydney, smashing windows of cars, homes and stores and raising fears of spreading racial unrest.

Prime Minister John Howard called the violence "sickening," but denied it was rooted in racism. Arab community leaders said the unrest would heighten racial tensions as cell phone text messages warned of retribution by the Arab community and attacks by neo-Nazi groups.
(enlarge photo)
Denture store owner Horst Dreizner left, helps a repairman replace his front glass dors after a car smashed through them in the southern Sydney suburb of Caringbah, Tuesday, Dec.13, 2005. Youths riding around in vehicles bashed cars and smashed store windows in suburban Sydney late Monday, police said, as violence continued for a second night in a row. (AP Photo/Mark Baker)
Listen Now:Howard says racial intolerance is to be condemned. (Note length of cut) (requires Real Player)

About 5,000 white men, many of them drunk, targeted people believed to be of Arab or Middle Eastern descent on Cronulla Beach on Sunday after rumors spread that Lebanese youths assaults two lifeguards earlier this month.

Police, who had stepped up patrols on the beach after learning of cell phone text messages urging people to retaliate for the attack on the lifeguards, fought back with batons and pepper spray.

Young men of Arab descent struck back in several Sydney suburbs Sunday, fighting with police for hours and smashing dozens of cars with sticks and bats, police said. They said 31 people were injured, including a white man who was allegedly stabbed in the back, and 16 arrested.

Carloads of youths also tore through the suburbs Monday night, attacking vehicles and throwing bottles through windows. While only one person was reported injured and six arrested, there appeared to be more damage to cars and stores than on Sunday.

Television images of Sunday's riot shocked Australians, who pride themselves on tolerance and credit an influx of immigrants with helping build up the country after World War II.

Tensions between youths of Arabic and Middle Eastern descent and white Australians have been rising in recent years, fueled by the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States and deadly bombings on Bali that killed 202 people, including 88 Australians.

Many Muslims also were angered over Howard's decision to contribute troops to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

The president of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, Keysar Trad, said the violence was "bound to happen" following angry calls to radio talk shows after the attack on the lifeguards. Police have denied the assault on the lifeguards was racially motivated.

The unrest recalled three weeks of rioting in France that began in the suburbs of Paris on Oct. 27 and spread nationwide, baring frustration in communities with high immigrant and Muslim populations.

Police spokesman Paul Bugden said he did not have descriptions of those involved in Monday night's rampage, but said it was linked to Sunday's rioting.

Witnesses told an Associated Press photographer that some youths involved in the attacks were Middle Eastern or Arabic in appearance and others wore ski masks. Australian Broadcasting Corp. reported that police said men of Middle Eastern appearance were involved.

New text messages calling for more violence reportedly were being circulated. "We'll show them!" one message said, according to The Australia newspaper.

Howard defended Australia's policy of tolerance, noting that the nation has successfully absorbed millions of foreigners. "I do not accept that there is underlying racism in this country," he said.

His comments were clearly aimed at immigrants and their families. Howard repeatedly has come under criticism for refusing to apologize for past government abuses of Aborigines, Australia's poorest and least educated minority group.

Morris Iemma, premier of New South Wales state, said police would find those behind the violence. "Let's be very clear, the police will be unrelenting in their fight against these thugs and hooligans," he said.

About 300 people of Arab descent demonstrated against Sunday's attack outside one of Sydney's largest mosques, amid tight security.

"Arab Australians have had to cope with vilification, racism, abuse and fear of a racial backlash for a number of years, but these riots will take that fear to a new level," said Roland Jabbour, chairman of the Australian Arabic Council.

In the 2001 census, nearly a quarter of Australia's 20 million people said they were born overseas. The country has about 300,000 Muslims, most in lower income suburbs of large cities.

A resident of the predominantly white suburb of Brighton-Le-Sands, Steven Dawson, said a bottle thrown through his apartment window Monday showered his 5-month-old son with glass, but did not hurt the boy.

Horst Dreizner said a car was rammed through the front doors of his denture store. "Personally, I think it is only the beginning," he said by telephone.

The violence distressed residents of Sydney.

"What we have seen yesterday is something I thought I would never see in Australia," Community Relations Commission chairman Stepan Kerkyasharian told Sky News.

Religious leaders urged calm, with Roman Catholic Archbishop Cardinal George Pell urging people to "reject the extremists in both camps and work together so that this is the end of major disturbances, not the beginning of something worse."

Frankly, lebenese gangbangers are scum. Pure scum. Nothing more.
Wouldn't this be relevent to, I dunno--ALL gangbangers perhaps?

Or are Australian gangbangers more relaxed and call you mate while the beat your ass?

[PopCulturePooka]

FYI, the Atlanta Journal Consitution has been running articles on this, one the front page of the website, even, since day one.


Wouldn't this be relevent to, I dunno--ALL gangbangers perhaps?

Or are Australian gangbangers more relaxed and call you mate while the beat your ass?
We have gangbangers of all persuassions here. None are as violent or random as the Lebenese gangs currently are.

Leb gangs.

Turkish gangs.

Bikie gangs.

Vietnamese gangs.

Serb and Croat gangs (who cause a great deal of problems about 10 odd years back).

Greek Macedonian gangs.

Hip hop gangs.

Emo gangs (haha).

White Nationalist gangs.

Many many more.

However in the past decade no gang style as caused as many problems in Australia as the Lebenese gangs. These gangs are mainly young Lebenese men of 14 - 24. To say they are disaffected and angry at Aussie racism since September 11 is bullshit. They were angry and violent before then. There were gang rapes before then, nightclub shootings before then, violence and assaults before then.

They also aren't just angry at 'White' Australia, they are angry and pissed at everyone who isn't them. My Vietnamese friend, who lives in a pretty much Vietnamese community in Sydney has faced the brunt of a Leb Gangs shit, for merely reporting one guy at his TAFE( like a Uni) for disrupting classes. He also reports that its mainly Lebenese gangers (and not racist white Australians) that grief Vietnamese and Asian kids in his area to 'Go back to their own country'.

A problem with these Lebenese gangs is you can't really say they are Muslim either. A good deal of the little bastards have NO respect for the Muslim religion, or are even Muslim. Many Lebenese families in Australia are Catholic or Christian. They are 2nd or 3rd generation born Lebanese, many have large disposable incomes (if their cars, clothes and stereo systems are anything to go by).

The only other type of 'gangs' that cause these problems in Australia are bikey gangs out in the rural areas.

The other gangs, while still obviously problems, generally aren't as violent.

[Psychochink]

OK, first off, let's remember that the media will always try to work in a 'racism' angle these days if they can manage it. All the better if it has anything to do with anybody of Middle Eastern descent. Case in point: the riots in France. Now, I don't know about the American media, but everything that I saw made a big deal about the ethnic angle. The real underlying causes appear to be somewhat different when you do some digging, but that doesn't pull ratings. Ethnic factors come into it, but are by no means the most important thing. In any case, I’ll let Kustom talk about that if he wants to, on to the Cronulla riots:

Were there some racists in the crowd? Yes. This shambles gave them a perfect opportunity to push their agenda. Were the riots racially motivated? Well, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

You know the thing that pisses me off most about any cry of "Racism!" (apart from the shoddy logic that many people use to justify it)? Somehow, unlike any other accusation, there seems to be this common attitude that as soon as the accusation is made, the burden of proof suddenly lumps onto the accused to prove that he/she was not being racist. I mock this attitude on a regular basis by putting on my best Short Round (politically incorrect Chinese kid from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom) voice and yelling, “You just saying that because you racist!” when I’m losing an argument, but I am unfortunately reminded sometimes of why I do this.

Shoddy logic? Yeah. You know, just because a minority group happens to be involved, that doesn’t mean that a given incident is racially motivated and I am getting really sick of hearing the same pissweak arguments with that premise.

dwell on that stuff like you seem to do. There may be some localised feelings in communities that suffered a direct loss, but overall…]

Not that I’m justifying the riots. Hell, if I had my way they would have dispersed the crowd with ‘unreasonable’ force. Not to mention that their target profile wasn’t logical, but mobs have never exactly been known for their effective action. What would your reaction be if this incident was about a predominantly white suburb that spawned a lot of violent criminals who terrorised neighbouring communities, and then went out of their way to protect them from justice? I don’t doubt I’d be seeing a lot of “Good on them” and “It’s about time” posts.

Racism is a hobby horse for too many otherwise intelligent people. I am the first one to act against racism, physically if necessary, and I will enjoy doing so. But just because I’ve been the victim of racially-motivated incidents in the past (I used to get beaten up every day in primary school) doesn’t mean that I’m eager to see it in every incident where members of different races happen to clash.

Not to mention, for all you apologists, that by far the majority of the violence in these incidents is coming from the ‘persecuted’ side. Despite their lesser numbers, they’ve caused more injuries and property damage than their ‘opponents’.

…..

…..

…..

Now, having said that, I’m going to do a turnaround of sorts. Are their racial issues in Cronulla, specifically? Yes, there are, and there have been for quite a long time. An examination of the history of the township will reveal that there have been tensions there for quite some time. Was there likely a strong element of racism in the riots on the weekend, given that history? Almost certainly.

However, I’d be willing to wager that nobody crying ‘racism’ in this thread actually did do that research before throwing in their opinion, and has instead based it purely from a few media reports (who would never use sensationalism to sell papers). Knee-jerk reactions based on little information and due to an oversensitivity to anything that smacks of racial issues. That’s what I deplore – intelligent people that are somehow completely credulous when it comes to certain issues.

Not to mention the generalisations that have been made (by Aussies in here as well) about this being a symptom of the ‘serious racial issues across Australia’. Are there some racial issues? Sure. Are they serious? Compared to what? Are there more lately than there have been in the recent past? That I’ll concede. Do they compare to, say, America’s racial issues (or are even in the same order of magnitude)? Now that, I seriously doubt. Not that I’m saying that America is necessarily a hotbed of racism, just that ‘serious’ is very much relative to the country that you’re in.

These multinational races could push us born-and-bred Australians around...

Careful Jay, your bias is showing. Yeah, I’m of Asian descent, but my family has been in this country for the last 150 years – can you say the same?

We have gangbangers of all persuassions here. None are as violent or random as the Lebenese gangs currently are.

To say they are disaffected and angry at Aussie racism since September 11 is bullshit. They were angry and violent before then. There were gang rapes before then, nightclub shootings before then, violence and assaults before then.

They also aren't just angry at 'White' Australia, they are angry and pissed at everyone who isn't them... its mainly Lebenese gangers (and not racist white Australians) that grief Vietnamese and Asian kids in his area to 'Go back to their own country'.

The other gangs, while still obviously problems, generally aren't as violent.

This is also true. But wait, they’re a minority so obviously it must be the majority who’s in the wrong here, they’re being unfairly persecuted. Is it racism to recognise that a particular portion of society is causing legitimately more problems than any other?

While other sections of the criminal community are more powerful, and more violent when provoked (the bikie gangs who regularly get caught with fully automatic shotguns and other military hardware being a good example), as a regular citizen it’s the ones who are prone to random street violence that concern you, and the Lebanese gangs tend to fall into this category.

[PopCulturePooka]

I heart you psychochink.

[erbiumfiber]

I love it when immigrants to a country (I've seen this in America, can't speak for Australia) refuse to assimilate, sometimes for generations, only deal with people of their own ethnic/racial background and sometimes refuse to even learn the language of their host country. But THEY are not being racist by refusing to deal with their new countrymen. And, of course, if there is the slightest negative reaction to them at all or, in America, the tiniest suggestion that they should learn English, well then, everybody is being racist and picking on them.

Do you know that, in America, regular law enforcement officers can't check to see if someone is an illegal alien (must be a federal officer)? And this STILL after 9/11?! Even picking on ILLEGAL ALIENS is racist in the US...

So, yeah, I hear you Australia...

[Frayed]

Whoever's crying that little to no racism involved in the riots is kidding themselves. I have a copy of one of the sms that went out prior to last Sunday riots which I will reproduce for you:

Aussies: this Sunday every F%@king Aussie in the shire get down the north cronulla To help support....Leb and wog bashing day...Bring your mates down and lets show them that this is our beach and their never welcome back. F%@$ the lebs/wogs., lets kill the c&$ts! Tell everyone spread the word...Fire up Aussies...Sunday midday don't forget...Forward this to all you know and help us protect our brothers and sisters...lets claim back our shire...

Are Lebanese gangs in the Shire a problem? Yes. But that doesn't excuse the fact that the weekends riots were simply despicable acts of racism.

The retaliations were equally despicable and equally racist.

Neither group deserves to call Australia home in my mind.

[theunraveler]

i saw a couple of chinese in the videos and there seem to be a couple of black guys which i think are aborigines.

for the chinese to be riled up so badly that they are taking to the streets must mean the lebanese migrants have been stirring shit up in all direction.

1 memorable video that i saw was a chinese girl bitchslapping a leb. WOOHOO cat fight!!!

but still this riot solves nothing, if anything it has galvanise the entire leb community into a defensive mode. things look grim this christmas for the ppl of cronulla...

[Urban~Ninja]

Im gonna throw my opinion into the pit.

Im basically friends with a small group of lebonese kids who hand around my Local SHopping Center in sydney, and im not gonna lie these guys are gangsters, but they are really pussies at heart, they have been running away from the shops since the threats began, so although some lebonese are ready to go to gang war for this, some are scared shitless.

Then i also have some friends that are blue aussies through and though and i also think they are over re-acting. They want to go to Cronulla to get involved, and ive told them they will get hurt or they are being very narrow minded like alot of the Australians getting involved who dont really even know why they are down there.

Im Part Japanese and Part Irish and im staying so far form this incident, because i already get enought threats for being part Asian, and i dont wanna see my friends get drawn into this.

Right now my overall opinion is that its because the younger lebonese who are getting into this are just bored and thats hwy they start all the gangs in the first place and so they should go get jobs or do something better with their time, and the Australians getting involved should be ashamed because they are tanishing their names.

[Komachi Angel]

Retaliation to the riots:

night hundreds of Lebanese in gangs of four to six to a car went on a very violent rampage through another beach area of Marubra (residents had nothing to so with what happened in Cronulla) and smashed hundreds of cars parked along the street while residents looked on from their houses. In this rampage the cowards king hit a girl in the face, walked up to a woman who had emerged to check on her elderly neighbours and said “I’m Australian too” and smashed her in the face with a base ball bat; stabbed a man in the back as he defended the women with him from the rape the gang threatened etc etc.

[Kass]

However, I’d be willing to wager that nobody crying ‘racism’ in this thread actually did do that research before throwing in their opinion, and has instead based it purely from a few media reports (who would never use sensationalism to sell papers). Knee-jerk reactions based on little information and due to an oversensitivity to anything that smacks of racial issues. That’s what I deplore – intelligent people that are somehow completely credulous when it comes to certain issues.

When have you ever known me to post something without some pretty serious research having gone on first. The Aussies on this board aren't the only ones I know and some of them are amongst my best friends.

The Lebanese aren't the sole targets of this action. Had it been one flash incident, I'd buy that racism was not a major factor, though only a deliberately blind person would say it wasn't a factor at all. But no, this was more than one riot on more than one day. Subsequent incidents were planned via SMS. There was plenty of time in between for cooler heads to prevail. Instead, those cooler heads went on to encourage MORE violence--from both sides of the issue.

Some one mentioned that now that everyone but the US has seen this, things will happen, but of all the countries in the world, the US is uniquely qualified to weigh in on this. We have problems, but we also admit we have problems. We're one of the few nations in the world that looks, sees racism in our own country and actually does something about it. That isn't to say we don't have a ways to go, but I don't see a lot of other countries passing hate crimes legislation either.

Do you think France would have seen the riots they did if they didn't pretend that the subculture of second-generation Middle Eastern immigrants were even recognized? "Real" French society liked to pretend they didn't exist unless they were there to clean their toilets. France is only the first of the European countries that is going to see significant problems with immigrant populations. In Germany, it will likely be the Turks, who are treated as bad as or worse than France treated North African immigrants. Europe talks a big game, but when it comes to day to day life, they don't like their culture being "muddied" up. I lived there far too long to not notice how they treat immigrants. I never did figure out if the barbed wire fences were to keep the Turks in the complexes or everyone else out...

Australia's government can keep pretending that racism doesn't exist in Australia or they can acknowledge that it does, that they've allowed gangs to get out of hand and that now, they have a crisis in Cronulla and do something about it. The police need to crack down on on the gangs, but they need to open their eyes and start working on how to keep this from happening again. That means acknowledging that Australia is devleoping some pretty nasty racial problems.

[Baani]

The Lebanese gangs are at fault AND so are the rioters shouting anti-wog comments which covers up basically the whole of Middle East. I am north Indian, I look pakistani/afghani. My mom wont me get out of the house because of these riots. The funny thing is that all the victims so far, most of them werent even Middle Eastern. I blame it on the local MP's and community leaders, especially the lebanese leaders who havent paid enough attention to these gangs.

Someone made a comment that immigrants dont assimilate into the dominant culture. Australian does not follow the policy of Assimilation, we follow Multiculturalism. There is no dominant culture in Australia, rather a mixture of cultures. If there is a dominant culture, then please explain to me what it is.

Personally, some of our local ethnic leaders need to wake up and smell the coffee before situations like this gets out of hand.

[Bob]

They deserved it. What kind of backwards motherfucker goes to australia?

[PopCulturePooka]

They deserved it. What kind of backwards motherfucker goes to australia?
Your mother.

LOL!

[Bob]

Hip hop gangs.

The kind that beatboxes while attacking you?

[Bob]

Your mother.

LOL!

Nah, my mother isn't a felon

Lawl

[Encryp]

Chaser News Network's take on riots. (http://www.chaser.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2931&Itemid=26)

I dont really know much of the state of things over in the eastern states, but it looked more like a bunch of drunks standing around in the streets while 2 or 3 people push someone around, than a riot really.

As for "is Australia racist" i dont see why this is something that only Australia is being asked, there's plenty of racism in all countries.

[Kass]

I dont really know much of the state of things over in the eastern states, but it looked more like a bunch of drunks standing around in the streets while 2 or 3 people push someone around, than a riot really.

Tell that to this kid. (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051212/051212_australia_hmed_6a.standard.jpg)

[ruaidhri]

Well, there’s one thing for certain. This is a very interesting thread with many well written and insightful comments. I am not Australian and, other than what I’ve learned on this thread, all I know is what I’ve read or heard from the American news media.

I believe we all agree that both sides are at fault for the riots. I further believe a large portion of the blame rests with the Australian government and with the parents and leaders of the Lebanese community that allows violent gangs to exist. It’s obvious to me that the government must protect its citizenry or they will resort to frontier justice to protect themselves. This type of reactionary justice is the opposite of fair and impartial. Racism is a nasty word. It screams ignorance. But, like it or not, racism was a factor at Cronulla Beach. The rioters did attack people based on ethnic appearance. They did focus their frustrations, anger and revenge without regard to guilt or innocence. Some, within the group of white rioters did hurl racist epithets which quite naturally created an unfavorable impression of the whole group. Obviously, the same can be said for the Lebanese gangs that in turn attacked white suburbs and residents.

While the rioters may not be as hateful and racist as found in the American South in the 1950’s and 1960’s, they still are marching to the cadence of intolerance.

The riots happened. Now, the question is: How should Australia fix their problems? First, I believe, they need to identify, find and prosecute the rioters. They also need to break up the Lebanese gangs and actively prosecute their members. A criminal act is a criminal act regardless of the ethnicity of the perpetrator. In my opinion it’s most important that Australia protect its law abiding citizens of all races and ethnicity.

PopCulturePooka and Psychochink, Jay and others clearly expressed their frustrations with the current situation. Their government needs to act before the situation gets worse, which it will if the government fails to take fair and reasonable action.

[whispering]

Saw this posted on another forum, originally as pdf file though, but found a text version. IMO its a good read an gives some insight to the whole gang thing in Sydney. Written by an ex Police Detective Tim Priest, before the riots, witch he has condemed:

http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581

[Encryp]

Tell that to this kid. (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051212/051212_australia_hmed_6a.standard.jpg)

It's still not really a riot, its more like just a few scuffles, some smashed windows and a lot of yelling. If it was anything much more the cops would have been decked out in riot gear, and there would have been a lot more. While the guy in the pic shoudnt have to put up with that type of shit, i dont really think the amount of hype that this riot has generated is justified compared to some of the other issues around the world. But the chance to slap a racism tag on everything that moves was too greater temptation for the media to resist.

[Kass]

Yes, and the man stabbed in the back and thw woman beaten with a bat and the kids beaten up on the street... Just minor incidents. I guess if we get lucky and no one dies, it's no big deal right? There can't really be that much of a problem if blood isn't running in the streets.

[Bob]

Yes, and the man stabbed in the back and thw woman beaten with a bat and the kids beaten up on the street... Just minor incidents. I guess if we get lucky and no one dies, it's no big deal right? There can't really be that much of a problem if blood isn't running in the streets.


Still isnt a riot

[Kass]

I guess 5,000 "youths" carrying out those attacks doesn't rate a crowd either. Blindly belittling the issue isn't going to make it go away.

The rioting began Sunday on Cronulla Beach when about 5,000 white youths, many drunk and wrapped in Australian flags, attacked people believed to be of Arab or Middle Eastern descent after rumors spread that Lebanese youths had assaulted two lifeguards earlier this month.

Of course, I suppose that the violence spreading to other cities isn't a big deal either.

[Bob]

I guess 5,000 "youths" carrying out those attacks doesn't rate a crowd either. Blindly belittling the issue isn't going to make it go away.



Of course, I suppose that the violence spreading to other cities isn't a big deal either.


A couple of dozen people getting attacked is a brawl at best

[PopCulturePooka]

Yes, and the man stabbed in the back and thw woman beaten with a bat and the kids beaten up on the street... Just minor incidents. I guess if we get lucky and no one dies, it's no big deal right? There can't really be that much of a problem if blood isn't running in the streets.
All those people were beaten by Leb Gangers as 'retaliation'. One was a women who was checking on her elderly neighbours when the gangs hit her up. The guy was protecting his gf from a rape.

[Roxie]

wtf is a wop? or a pog? or what where those other words they're calling folks?

[Komachi Angel]

Don't get me wrong - the quote I posted said the Lebanese Gangs were the authors of those attacks. Not the riots.

[Urban~Ninja]

I doubt this will last more then the next month or so. Its because its holidays season aswell so all the kids are off school and have nothing better to do with their time then be assholes.

On the train this morning i was with 2 friends who are from Lebanon and they said they dont feel any anger against the rioters, they think the lebonese involved are just idiots and this was a un-avoidable conclusion to a bunch of wanna be gangsters acting like they run the Beach.

I feel sorry though for anyone who was attacked and didnt have to do with it.

A kid who left my school last semester hangs out with the younger brother of one of the people who orignally attacked the lifesavers those weeks ago. He says he is scared Shitless right now because he knows that his friend are packing heat until the riots go down.

I seriously think both sides are just complete idiots.

The lebonese parents need to open their eyes and see their kids are dangerous and also see that they can do something to prevent more gang violence.

Also to those who are familiar with Hornsby Shopping Center, the lebonese kids Arin (The short one, with now two broken arms) was attacked by graduates from Barker College because he was a smartass to them awhile ago, just saying because some people think he was hurt during the riots and i wanted to clear it up with anyone familiar here.

[Psychochink]

When have you ever known me to post something without some pretty serious research having gone on first.

Well, not being you, I couldn't say, could I? Since that's the case, my apologies (as you may have guessed, it's a pet peeve of mine).

On the racial issues in Australia, I may address that later when I get some time (bloody employers expecting me to actually work for my salary...) :D

[porkchops]

well, this issue seems to have risen to unexpected heights. originally it may have just been a life saver giving "tongue and lip" to a couple of lebanese youths whom retaliated with violence. now it has spiralled into an all out racial/ ethnic *cleansing*.
its not nearly as bad as the media makes it out to be, the events on sunday was about 5000 "DRUNK" mostly males of anglo-celtic background chasing less than 10 lebanese? its questionable why the after shocks as the riots in the evenings are continuing.
have they not claimed back their beach now? wasn't retribution for the beaten volunteer lifesavers what they're after? now its just an excuse for persecution.
everyone talks about it, but unless you're directly affected, most people dont exactly care too much about the issue.

finally, i'm damn surprised this was mentioned in American News Broadcasts, Australia's self-proclaimed importance only goes so far :) We may believe we are a major player/power in what ever field we excel at, but i thought that was all just disillusionment.

o and can anyone link me the video? id really want to see the chinese people rioting, my friend gave me a lecture how this racist thing wasn't just targetting lebanese migrants but all non-anglo/white migrants in general.

[Shnur]

This has been a long long time coming.

Basically Australia has racial issues. Fairly large ones.

howver this lashing out wasn't against Middle Eastern people as a whole. Or wogs. Or foreigners.

It was against a select group. Lebenese. And mainly Lebenese gangbangers and thugs. Young men. For about 10 years the lebenese gang situation has been getting steadily worse.

They are full of maciasmo and false bravado, are violent, thuggish and rapists.

Lebenese gangs are heavily involved in the drug trade in Sydney.

Lebenese gangs were responsible for a string of gang rapes aimed at Young Teenage White Aussie girls a few years back.

They also indiscriminantly beat up people, especially young white guys or Asian kids.

They also think they are above the law. They commit horrific crimes (rape, assault etc) and when arrested cry racism. When the gang rape ringleaders were sentenced to prison last year the rest of the lebenese community in Sydney reacted in outrage and almost rioted. They stood up for rapists. The victims were then threatened and a lot left Sydney.

The rest of the Lebenese community has been slow to denounce these gangs, or altogether silent.

Its been building for years.

A few months back these gangs started hitting the beach side community of Cronulla on weekends. Beating up or attacking people. Young girls were threatened and lifeguards (who in Australia are primarily volunteers). The NSW premier (akin to governor) made a press conference at Cronulla vowing better protection. Didn't work and two more lifeguards copped it.

That was a week ago. After that the residents of Cronulla started organising something for this weekend. Seemed to be a prtoest/march/community support thing. However booze and emotions made it much much uglier.

During the day on sunday is when the white (and other) residents of Cronulla got involed in the ugliness that the media is reporting.. The attacks on 'middle eastern' people (read: Lebs). The attacks on Ambos' etc.

What the reports are glossing over is what happened last night. In response to this shitstorm, lebense gangs (at least 40 cars full of em) descened on a neighboring suburb and randomly destroyed cars and property.

It's a fucked up situation, but its not a surprising one.

100% agreed. It's not all Lebanese people who do all this shit, but the ones that do are the absolute scum of the human race.

[Urban~Ninja]

Well i think its slowling down.

On a lighter note.
My friend who is Kenyan made the joke that me and my friends should were shirts saying Irish, Japanese, Kenyan, Canadian if we ever venture into Cronulla to avoid any trouble.

The seriousness of the joke:
This was a result of me and my friend riding the Train to Hornsby when stopped by some very angry looking Lebonese people obvioulsy in the mood for some kind of fight, now they walked up to me and 3 of my friend and asked somehting along the lines of "Why you hanging with these skips!" it was directed at my friend who looks very middle eastern and is from Kenya. His response was that "They aint Aussies" which is very much true. Myself im IRish and Japanese which they were like "Well i guess you Japs are alright" and my other two friends are Canadian and since they speak with the accent they were covered aswell but for a split second i was scared shitless. This is just another example of how this has effected the wider community.

Me and my friends werent on our way to cause any trouble hell we just wanted some subway foot longs and these Lebonese obviosuly couldnt do anything in Cronulla cause of the Police so they choose to huslte kids on the train.

[Stormhammer]

Saw this posted on another forum, originally as pdf file though, but found a text version. IMO its a good read an gives some insight to the whole gang thing in Sydney. Written by an ex Police Detective Tim Priest, before the riots, witch he has condemed:

http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581

That was a very good read. Thanks. I had never heard of anything like this in the areas of Australia I got to see. ( Townsville and Darwin ) The people there make me want to visit it again, which makes what I've seen and heard here all the more shocking.

I really hope the situation there gets better and soon.

-Stormhammer-

[Jai]

Australian racism in a nutshell -

If you live here and dont consider yourself an aussie, your tolerated by our law, but definately not welcomed by our wider population.

Ask a leb who he is, what he is - you wont get australian as an answer - hese still Lebanese and proud of it. When southern european countries play each other in the world cup, we get RIOTS between warring groups of supposed "australians" when one team beats the crap out of the other. Again, these people arnt australians - ask them.

Is that racist? Id say the riots are far more provoked by nationalism and utterly misguided patriotism than racism. Australia, as a nation, is fed up with people coming here without checking their baggage at the door. You can call me a racist pratt - youd be very wrong, since im personally friendly with people from all racial subtypes, AUSTRALIANS the lot of them - if you want. BUT If you live here but dont call yourself an aussie, GO HOME. Assimilation >>>>> Multiculturalism.

Case point - I know an Indian who has been here only a few years. When Australia plays India in the cricket, he is chants Aussie Aussie Aussie and cheering our boys on. That man is an Australian through and through. BUT -3rd generation Italians who still cant talk engrish? :mad: Not aussies.


I should point out that after saying all that, im absolutely disgusted by the violence. Until last week, I didnt even think main stream australia was even capable of that sort of violence, and it makes me sad. (Im also absolutely flabbergasted at the one sided anti-australian media coverage given to this incident, with the "evil redneck riot" front page news and the Lebanese gang-trashing of several suburbs barely mentioned even as a footnote.)

[Kass]

All those people were beaten by Leb Gangers as 'retaliation'. One was a women who was checking on her elderly neighbours when the gangs hit her up. The guy was protecting his gf from a rape.

At what point did I excuse their behavior? I do believe I said that the Aussie government needs to crack down on them and take care of that problem.

[Baani]

Australian racism in a nutshell -

If you live here and dont consider yourself an aussie, your tolerated by our law, but definately not welcomed by our wider population.

Ask a leb who he is, what he is - you wont get australian as an answer - hese still Lebanese and proud of it. When southern european countries play each other in the world cup, we get RIOTS between warring groups of supposed "australians" when one team beats the crap out of the other. Again, these people arnt australians - ask them.

Is that racist? Id say the riots are far more provoked by nationalism and utterly misguided patriotism than racism. Australia, as a nation, is fed up with people coming here without checking their baggage at the door. You can call me a racist pratt - youd be very wrong, since im personally friendly with people from all racial subtypes, AUSTRALIANS the lot of them - if you want. BUT If you live here but dont call yourself an aussie, GO HOME. Assimilation >>>>> Multiculturalism.

Case point - I know an Indian who has been here only a few years. When Australia plays India in the cricket, he is chants Aussie Aussie Aussie and cheering our boys on. That man is an Australian through and through. BUT -3rd generation Italians who still cant talk engrish? :mad: Not aussies.


I should point out that after saying all that, im absolutely disgusted by the violence. Until last week, I didnt even think main stream australia was even capable of that sort of violence, and it makes me sad. (Im also absolutely flabbergasted at the one sided anti-australian media coverage given to this incident, with the "evil redneck riot" front page news and the Lebanese gang-trashing of several suburbs barely mentioned even as a footnote.)

I have noticed that alot as well, 2nd and 3rd generation italians/greeks/turks etc who can not speak english. I found it quite odd, never expected it especially since I grew up in India and when I came here, people were amazed at 'how well I spoke English.'

and I agree with the rest of your post.