A People's Revolution

[Idlethought]

In class yesterday we had an interesting discussion when I brought up that story that the guy on this forum told about his friend who was the soldier who had to kill the kid to stay alive. Eventually we got into the discussion of Bush, as most discussions about the war in Iraq eventually end up, and one chick in my class was talkin about how our rights are slowly being stripped from us and I brought up the question that, how much would you take before you were provoked to revolution? So here I wanna expand on that. At what point would you give up your comfortable complacent life to fight for what you think is owed to you? And how probable do you think a people's revolution in America is? Just wonderin...

[stillbornsinger]

hrmm... interesting question. I do believe it is an eventuality that the US will have a revolution. No country has lasted forever, so either that or eventually we will have an economic collapse, or be invaded, or well be destroyed.

When the government comes to take my gun I'll be fighting back, or if martial law was inacted. (Aside from in some isolated emergency)

[Idlethought]

well we wont be invaded anytime soon unless a bunch of countries gang together to get us, but that would take like all the other developed nations to do lol economic collapse seems the surest

[Jarod Cain]

hrmm... interesting question. I do believe it is an eventuality that the US will have a revolution. No country has lasted forever, so either that or eventually we will have an economic collapse, or be invaded, or well be destroyed.

When the government comes to take my gun I'll be fighting back, or if martial law was inacted. (Aside from in some isolated emergency)
I have to agree with what you just said. Though I think that I should elaborate and say that there would also have to be some major domestic disputes and misrepresentation among the states to trigger this.

One of the alternate histories my friends and I are concocting for a Sci-Fi setting is simply this. In the near future (IE ten to twenty years or so) plate tectonics finally get around to changing the flow of the Missippi resulting in massive problems throughout Louisiana and the flooding of North Eastern Texas. Relief efforts are of course dispatched en masse but the scope of what would be needed to do in both Louisiana and Texas starts putting major strain on the entire nation and it's taking longer than expected. Taxes are raised and eventually it gets to a point that the Government starts taking a direct precentage of any agriculture and manufactured goods to keep the people within the disaster areas, both those working there and the citizens alive. These domestic enactments are orchestrated through the departments of Homeland Security and FEMA and gradually become more and more oppressive.

The whole incident snowballs when a march led by Utah and Arizona Senators against a new gun control bill moving through the Senate that would take all personal arms out of the home and place them in centralized armories in every city (shoring up the existing National Guard armories). Things start getting strained with the police who are standing by when a random shot (it is never determined where it originated from but later on two police officers were fired) causes the police to fire into the crowd. In the process the Utah representative is killed on public television. The Federal Government tries to cover up the incident and place the blame on the Senators themselves which ends with the Utah, Arizona, and Colorado Senators and House representatives being voted out of office by the rest of the congregation in an effort to silence them. This of course incenses the western states and their respective Governers and now former representatives call a summit in Phoenix. Idaho, New Mexico, Montana and Nevada all attend what is discussed behind those closed doors is the rightful secession of these states from a now oppressive regime.

They eventually do so and create the Rocky Mountain Federation, any troops from those states and the bases that exist within are annexed and recalled by the new RMF. Any citizens living with their borders are alotted 90 days to either move or stay with the new nation. The EU and the UN publicly denounce the formation of the new Government while the Mexican government who has been having major problems with an unfriendly US not only recognizes the new nation but gives them prefered trading status and promises defensive aid.

There is actually quite a bit more to this than what I'm writing right here. Things regarding a new UN charter granting them more global control and say with their member governments. Abrupt lost contact with Lunar bases and research facilities. And the eventual war nearly two months after the initial formation of the RMF, between them and the US. ^_^
-J-

[Idlethought]

how far along is your story so far?

[setrict]

It will happen. Eventually. Our goverment has grown cumbersome, and shows no signs of stopping. Law and goverment is a lot like bending a piece of metal. You bend it back, and forth which slowly aligns the molecules making the metal stronger. The strength comes at a price, as it increases so does the brittleness of the metal. Bend it hard enough, and long enough and it will eventually snap. Government is the same. We trade flexibility for strength, and all it will take is an event strong enough to make it finally snap.

I don't know when it will happen, or how... but I'm absolutely certain it will happen. I can only hope the results will make for a better future when it does, and the the result is worth the pain of the process.

[Praetorian]

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. - Benjamin Franklin

That's my take on it. Make of it what you will. Personally, I don't see a revolution happening. But major reforms? Oh, yes.

[NERD]

I don't see a major revolution, like the French Revolution, Paris Commune, Bolshevik Revolution, etc, taking place in America. Not anytime soon, bar some freak of nature stuff going on, like natural disasters hitting vital parts of America (face it, an earthquake in North Dakota?), major economical collapse, etc. And I'd say all these things have to happen simultaneously for a revolution to take place.

Praetorian is right though- reforms will continue to happen, and if anyone who paid close attention in US History can tell you one thing, is that America goes through reforms all the time.

Besides, I don't think the political mindset is there for a revolution to happen.

[Jarod Cain]

how far along is your story so far?
We actually had most of the timeline written down and talked out. But as far as I know the idea of using this for an RPG setting itself has been put on indefinate hold. Partially because several members of the group can't get along.
-J-

[jingi893]

wendill phillips once said..."Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."...and americans are vigilant no more in my opinion...they rather practice nimby politics than get involved...as for what i would tolerate...nothing...i will defend my rights and freedoms by arms if need be...thank the founding fathers for the 2nd amendment...as for revolution...a few more quotes...jefferson said this one..."a little rebellion now and then is a good thing"...and one more...again jefferson..."the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."...i think the founding fathers forsaw a time in the future where the government would become oppressive again...and they structured (maybe unknowingly) things to give the people "wiggle room"...not to say that they were always honorable men...in a sense the revolution is already happening...people just don't realize it...look at how polarized we are...left vs. right...science vs. religion...i understand that some of this is fundamentalist/extremist...but it always starts on the fringes before coming central...if the right in this country manages to overturn roe v. wade...i think that will be a major catalyst for revolution...personally speaking...you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs...

[CNagy]

Or the Founding Fathers could have known no more than the next guy. "Eternal Vigilance is the price of liberty" could as easily mean that there needs to be those who watch for danger, and those who watch the watchmen. The idea that Americans as a whole need to be vigilant is rather laughable.

As for the necessity of revolutions, the times have changed since that antiquated statement was made. Revolution is now a cultural thing, a social thing-- at least as far as the United States is concerned. The blood of patriots and tyrants was a requirement then, but no more. We have no tyranical threats to the US, as much as some people might point to a president or a party. First and foremost, politicians are experts at keeping their jobs. They know how much to push and when not to push. When we do get someone who is exceedingly forceful (Bush,) we are reassured by the knowledge that he cannot stick around for more than 8 years.

Roe vs. Wade won't be overturned, because the majority of the Right are not ready for that fight. What we will likely see is a bunch of conditions attached to it to make it all but illegal.

Jingi893, there... is... such... a... thing... as... over-using... ellipses... Please... use... normal... punctuation...

[jingi893]

The idea that Americans as a whole need to be vigilant is rather laughable.
not really...maybe on the west/east coast where it is more cosmopolitan...but there are a lot of people who don't really know what's going on outside of their little worlds...they don't take the time to get informed and just leave politics to the politicians...that is not smart...just look at the corruption on BOTH sides...right and left...americans need to wake up and realise that they are part of the world and that the world is not part of them...it's a very arrogant and dangerous attitude to have...just vist the midwest for awhile...you will see what i'm talking about...not saying everyone there is like that...but i sure do know a lot of people that seem to fit the bill...and of course the islamic fundamentalist are trying to import revolution to america...and that's a stated goal of the islamic jihad...

As for the necessity of revolutions, the times have changed since that antiquated statement was made. Revolution is now a cultural thing, a social thing-- at least as far as the United States is concerned. The blood of patriots and tyrants was a requirement then, but no more.
true to a point...but there is always a possibility...you can only push people so far until they push back...not saying it's going to be anytime soon...and i hope it never happens...but if things continue to polarize here in the u.s. it could lead to that...at times the civil rights movement was violent...and given the right circumstances violence can erupt...it happened in l.a. during the riots...social/economic/political factors were ripe...the rand corporation did a study on it...and france just had some problems lately...so again the possibilty is there...

Roe vs. Wade won't be overturned, because the majority of the Right are not ready for that fight. What we will likely see is a bunch of conditions attached to it to make it all but illegal.
you are right in that they are not ready for that fight...so not in the near future...but that is what the christian-fundamentalist agenda is...most of them live in the "bible-belt" and they wield considerable politcal clout...they will be patient until the time is right...

[Beer Pope]

No, seriously, elipses are an actual form of punctiation. Using them incorrectly that many times in a post is self-destructively poor grammar.

Ironically, that sentence looks really crappy.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

I heard about something like this the other day. Some guy was talking about if anything got so bad that a state Governor might succeed from the Union. Now this is obviously stupid, but it did get me thinking.

Draw up a scenario where the Federal Government has stripped nearly all rights away from the people and the State Government is the only ones who care enough about the people. If things got so bad a governor might actually do something crazy like that.

Of course this will never happen and I'm pretty used to the government screwing me over.

The thought of a modern Civil War actually chills me to the bone.

[jingi893]

No, seriously, elipses are an actual form of punctiation. Using them incorrectly that many times in a post is self-destructively poor grammar.

Ironically, that sentence looks really crappy.
I am fully aware of the rules of style and grammar. I fully understand that elipses are a form of punctuation. I choose to write the way I do because that is my choice. I wasn't made cognizant of any rules pertaining to grammar and style in the forum rules section. If the grammar police want to write me a ticket, fine. I'm not telling anyone here how to do things so I would hope that the same courtesy would be extended to me.

[CNagy]

Jingi893, the fact of the matter is that you are more likely to be ignored when your style of writing hurts the grey matter of other posters. Unless you don't really care about anyone else reading your posts, your choice of stylistic grammar is rather self-defeating. But it is, as you say, your choice.

Number17, states do not have the right to leave the Union. Once you are in, you are in. If a state attempted to deny the Federal Government and break away we'd get to relive a bit of history; namely, that bit about Andrew Jackson sending the military into South Carolina over the idea of Nullification. A wide-spread rift could not occur overnight, and the Federal Government would quell/eliminate those attempting to create change before the whole idea could snowball.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

Thought so.

[stillbornsinger]

I choose to write the way I do because that is my choice.

Yay! Someone who uses them more than me... :D

number17- I'm of the opinion that Texas and California should just go ahead and succeed. I am glad we have different states though with different laws and whatnot. I don't think I could ever perminantly live in either of those two places since they seem to be so extremely left/right...

[nothing]

>find "succeed"
>replace "secede"

kthx.

[Bob]

number17- I'm of the opinion that Texas and California should just go ahead and succeed.

It would be more fun if they had a war