Suicide

[h2orowe]

What are your thoughts on the subject?

[Radiance]

Wrong and often messy.

[Alphonse v.2]

People who commit are losers.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Emo Paradise.

[Komachi Angel]

Don't do it. No matter how bad things seem, you can always do something. Sure, it can be hideously painful at times, but it is important to hang in there.

[Anubis Nine]

I was attempting suicide before it was cool.

Fucking emo kids making it a joke. There are a lot of actual suicidal kids that don't get taken as seriously these days. So. *Stab*

[Radiance]

Don't do it. No matter how bad things seem, you can always do something. Sure, it can be hideously painful at times, but it is important to hang in there.

I misread your statement and thought you said "it is important to hang." and laughed until I re-read it. However, yes I agree with your statement. Things can always be worse and they will always get much better, it is just a question of when.

[co_delphi]

Well it is always a option for somebody if they believe there is no way of improving their life. I think the key to preventing it is to rule out the easy way out. Someone can take a handful of sleeping pills, go to sleep and never wake up. there is no pain in that and in that way it is too easy. I have determined that if I am to commit suicide I will do it in a manner that gets the most media attention possible so as to bring whatever reason I had to escape reality to light. My chosen method of suicide is to attempt to swallow a live squirrell. I'm fairly certain the attempt to swallow a live squirrell would result in my death and would definately capture world media attention making me famous in death. The reason I picked such a unusual method is simply this. I tell myself "My life sucks, I wish I were dead." so then I ask myself: "Is it bad enough to attempt to swallow a live squirrell?" And as you can tell I have yet to come across anything in life that sucked that bad.

[Idlethought]

its so fucking dumb. people think their lives are that bad, they live like kings compared to the rest of the world

[Invictus]

Suicide is a foolish step to take, and a cowardly way of escaping one's problems. It is the ultimate in self-centered action with no regard for the feelings, concerns, or wishes of other people.

[Komachi Angel]

I misread your statement and thought you said "it is important to hang." and laughed until I re-read it.

I'm not that evil lol

Serious, though, I went through a rough period (read: all of school), but I think it is very important to keep on going. Especially during school years, where you are jammed in with a whole bunch of people who you don't necessarily fit with. It can be very hard for those that don't choose to join the flow, and while you will get a lot of bad stuff from those that do, I heartily recommend staying as far away from trends and marketing as you can get.

[Pretentious]

It's for attention whores.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Your fucking dog, co delphi, is good enough to send an entire country in a mas suicide. :D

[EmilyElle]

It's the most selfish act possible... and most kids who think of doing it these days, they get a littl eupset and then they're like, "I'm going to kill myself now", when really, if they'd just wait two minutes, things usually wouldn't seem that bad after all... but I digress. Suicide isn't something to be taken lightly, and that's why it pisses me off so much when people are always talking about it in that light. People often say they're going to commit suicide just to see the reaction- people who are SERIOUSLY considering suicide don't talk aout it openly. So, if there's someone tlaking about suicide out in the open, I don't take them seriously.

[ruaidhri]

Ok, you brought me back if only for the moment.

What are my thoughts about suicide? Why do you ask? Are you considering suicide or do you know someone else that is considering suicide?

First, this is not a proper question for a forum because you are asking people (including me) that are not trained to answer this question and most definitely do not have any accountability. You are as likely to receive a flippant answer as one that is serious.

In my opinion suicide is stupid. It solves nothing. It wastes your life. It only hurts those that care about you.

If you have thoughts of suicide, seek help immediately. Tell someone at home or at school. If you know someone else that is considering suicide report your fears to someone that can help them. In either case, do not delay to seek help from someone qualified to answer your questions. You will not find competent help from an anonymous name in an Internet forum.

[morganlefayw]

i've never admitted to anyone when i've gotten depressed or considered suicide because i always told myself to just hang on alittle while longer and was always able to pull myself out, that my friends were there as silent support.
this past week, i had a "relapse" of depression, found myself curled up on my bedroom floor, sobbbing my heart out into my carpet. there are alot of things that factored into why i was having this again, why i was feeling what i was (i'm not getting into it)....and for several days, i tried to figure out how i should do it. i wouldn't understand why i was feeling like this, i shouldn't have been feeling this....
anywho, as i fell asleep the other night, i asked for help to get me through the night.....just take me into sleep....keep me from doing it. what i got is a "sending" (something like what other people might call an angel) to get me through the night. this is not the first time it's happened, most likely not the last. my "prayer" was answered.
but that other night, i was reminded /shone that suicide is NOT the way out....i was being weak, i've been through so much already and changed so much, my time has not come.
this is the first time i've said anything about it to anyone.
but it is a serious situation to be taken too lightly....if you or someone you know is experiancing this....as difficult as it may seem to be, you NEED to tell someone. you need someone to help you get through. it is not something to take in light.

[Enjoy]

In the end a person that attempted a suicide would most likely regret doing it. Just don't do it... like... yeah.

[DarkFire168]

I wish h2o would commit suicide. Mass suicide. With everyone I hate.

[h2orowe]

I wish h2o would commit suicide. Mass suicide. With everyone I hate.
:rolleyes:
10characterrule.

[baslisks]

I have nothing to express except that I wouldn't do it naturally. I would have to be under severe pressure and the likes to do it.

[NERD]

I believe this thread started out as people's opinions about suicide in general, however, somehow it changed to another suicide prevention line. I blame h2o for coming up with touchy subjects.

My thoughts on suicide is that-

it's a behavior that completely vexes people. As organisms, our basic instincts are self-preservation and spread our genetic informations. Sorry to undermine years of civilization and the development of collective consciousness, but on the basic level we are just striving to survive and fuck. So suicide is something that is totally against our primal instincts. It's something that has everything to do with our minds. Though people claim that other organisms other than humans may also commit suicide, it is not certain as we cannot really understand what they think, and we don't even know if they have a concept of life and death. Suicide remains to be solely human behavior.

But then, there are many artists, writers, political leaders, and more mundane members of the society who commit suicide. Hell, suicide probably took place after we started to develop more complex brains that could distinguish life and death, get lost between reality and fantasy/dream, and start to perceive ourselves from both our own point of view and point of view of others, such as family, friends, strangers, and the entire society. And yet, even after all those years, exactly what drives people to commit suicide and what prevents others from following suit is still a mystery. I mean, obviously suicide has to do with people finding despair in their lives, but while some fall under the weight of such despair and abort themselves, many others find a way to keep on going.

I don't claim to be an expert about this matter. Hell, I can't say for sure I won't commit suicide in the future because I have no clue what future will bring me, whatever tragic event that may strike me and disable me from functioning normally. Though I may say to others not to commit suicide, I am not sure if I won't be in their shoes one day, contemplating about my method of suicide.

It's a really complicated subject. Especially when some of the greatest human minds choose suicide as the way out, I can't help but wonder, are we that helpless? Are we truly alone in this world?

[Stephy]

My thoughts on the topic, is that its a very scary thing to think about...

I never thought about it. Seen it attempted many times in front of me though. Pretty scary.

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

There was this popular (yet ugly) girl in my school where there was a rumour about her stopped when she was about to commit suicide. Everyone asked her was it true, she said yes, and everyone gave them their pity.

BOO-HOO, YA ATTENTION-WHORE! She probably broke up with her boyfriend or something, that bitch.

[Idlethought]

its not natural to want to self destruct. every other organism on this planet strives to do anything to keep living. we're like the only species that at some times makes an effort to self destruct

[Shadowblade]

Even though i have thought about it during the worst parts of my depression, i have never really considered it a real option, because i beleive that suicide is a waste of life, and that it can't really get bad enough to throw your life away.

But if you are going to do it at least do it like a man.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=manly_suicide

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Oh my fuck, not a Maddox fan, please for God's sake.

[Idlethought]

ey ey, whats wrong with maddox he's funny as hell

[keitaidensha]

What are your thoughts on the subject?
are you considering suicide?

if so i highly recommend it

[keitaidensha]

ey ey, whats wrong with maddox he's funny as hell
haven't you heard, counter counter culture is awesome these days

[h2orowe]

I'm not goin' to commit suicide Ruaidhri, so please don't worry. Thanks for carin' though.
I've thought about it plenty times, but I've never been suicidal, it's a coward's way out.
For me, though, it's more of a plan B, if I can't pass high school, or can't go to college, and there's nothing I can do to get a job, besides work for my mom's boyfriend, than it's the only solution...
I was talkin' to my friend last night, and we started talkin' about college, and I said something about me wanting to go and maybe get my degree in a language, and he says
"Joey, with your grades from last year, you're not fucking going to college"
and ever since like... 4th grade, it's been my plan, that if I ever repeat a grade, or can't pass high school or go to college, it's my last option..... I doubt I won't go to college, because they don't look at 9th grade that much (they being colleges.)
^---this is my last option, like I said, so don't try and talk to me about it, I won't respond.

[keitaidensha]

I'm not goin' to commit suicide Ruaidhri, so please don't worry. Thanks for carin' though.
I've thought about it plenty times, but I've never been suicidal, it's a coward's way out.
For me, though, it's more of a plan B, if I can't pass high school, or can't go to college, and there's nothing I can do to get a job, besides work for my mom's boyfriend, than it's the only solution...
I was talkin' to my friend last night, and we started talkin' about college, and I said something about me wanting to go and maybe get my degree in a language, and he says
"Joey, with your grades from last year, you're not fucking going to college"
and ever since like... 4th grade, it's been my plan, that if I ever repeat a grade, or can't pass high school or go to college, it's my last option..... I doubt I won't go to college, because they don't look at 9th grade that much (they being colleges.)
^---this is my last option, like I said, so don't try and talk to me about it, I won't respond.
puuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssssyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

listen to yourself

have bad grades? no chance of going to a great college? if you're dedicated you'll make a way.

find a local piece of shit community college and go there for a couple of years. work hard. transfer into a better college. find what you want to do, then do it.

or not, if you're the lazy bastard i think you are

but hey, surprise me ;)

[Arvynia]

depends on the person's point of view.

It's stupid of us to say that, "That's stupid, don't do it." When we don't know what the person had gone through. There could be a completely sane and valid reason for not wanting to live - not all suicides are psychotic.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Suicide is not a choice I'd make, not a choice I'd want anyone around me to make, but one that I can respect people have their own reasons to make -- rational or otherwise.

Some do it due to depression, chemical imbalance, or other 'illness' which tends to make the act irrational.

Some do it to seek attention, because as Kobun said it is so contrary to the basic tenets of life, it is very disturbing.

Whatever reason people do it, it's highly disturbing, and in no way as easy as swallowing a bottle of pills. That will most likely end up with you in the emergency room with a pumped stomach and a lot of explaining to do when you wake up. The surest ways to commit suicide are the hardest to do.

There is a guide out there on the internet describing various methods, chances of survival, and possible problems if you fail. I won't post a link. It is a very disturbing document.

If you are seriously considering suicide (dwelling on it, considering it daily for weeks on end) then definitely get thineself to someone who can help! Otherwise, I'm with Nietzsche:
Der Gedanke an den Selbstmord ist ein starkes Trostmittel: mit ihm kommt man gut über manche böse Nacht hinweg.
- Aphorism 157

The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night.

[NERD]

That's a great quote PLF- funny how Nietzsche ended up going crazy, but still, his words carry a certain weight.

Anyway, I agree that if someone chose suicide as the last way to go, you can't really make any judgments on that. Though I'm contradicting myself, people will find faults with the person who chose suicide as their way out, because they need to go on with living, and in order to do that they need to justify suicide as being wrong. However, on the idea that everyone is responsible for their own lives; like someone said, You are the master of your own destiny. And we should accept the choices people make, no matter how painful it is. But I am not advocating suicide either.

[h2orowe]

puuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssssyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

listen to yourself

have bad grades? no chance of going to a great college? if you're dedicated you'll make a way.

find a local piece of shit community college and go there for a couple of years. work hard. transfer into a better college. find what you want to do, then do it.

or not, if you're the lazy bastard i think you are

but hey, surprise me ;)
That's what I plan on doing, but if I can't even do that -.- than I don't know...
I wouldn't even know which way to do it...
maybe Jumonji-Giri, haha XD Most Wapanese way to die, I'd go full out and commit Seppukku but noone would want to take my head.

[NERD]

That's what I plan on doing, but if I can't even do that -.- than I don't know...
I wouldn't even know which way to do it...
maybe Jumonji-Giri, haha XD Most Wapanese way to die, I'd go full out and commit Seppukku but noone would want to take my head.

Suicide is not a joking matter. If fantasizing about suicide gets you through another day, that's fine, but keep that to yourself. People survive in a worse condition that you are in right now, if you would take a moment and just looked around you, be that victims of recent hurricanes, earthquake, or military conflicts.

There's a reason people consider you as a child, and that's because you keep acting like one. If you ever, EVER grasped the true effects of suicide and understood the implications, that how choosing suicide would define your life in the end, you wouldn't joke about it. Now snap out of it and get your shit together.

[Jon885]

Well it is pretty sad. When teenagers commit suicide I think to myself "Well if I do die at least I got a good 20 years in. That's more than I can say for that 15 year old that shot himself." So I'm pretty happy I wasn't added to the teenage death statistic.

[Anubis Nine]

I really hate the flippant and condescending tone here about the whole Suicide thing. I note that there *are* people who get a tunnel vision and think death would be better.

I first tried to kill myself when I was 11, and at that time they weren't even bloody teaching kids what suicide WAS. Or at least they hadn't taught me. Try and have a *little* bit of understanding. I was scoffing over Emo kids but it's a serious problem if it gets to be so annoying that people react like this over someone that may want to end their life. (Though it's really the people that *don't* talk about it that you have to worry about) but aside from that, blah

[h2orowe]

Suicide is not a joking matter. If fantasizing about suicide gets you through another day, that's fine, but keep that to yourself. People survive in a worse condition that you are in right now, if you would take a moment and just looked around you, be that victims of recent hurricanes, earthquake, or military conflicts.

There's a reason people consider you as a child, and that's because you keep acting like one. If you ever, EVER grasped the true effects of suicide and understood the implications, that how choosing suicide would define your life in the end, you wouldn't joke about it. Now snap out of it and get your shit together.
Well, I know it would hurt people around me, and I honestly don't give a fuck if my mom cares about me killing myself. I mean I love her. I know she loves me, but if I love her should I not do it? I mean she loves me, yet she just gets drunk pretty much every night, and just tries to start fights with me, and yells at me for no god damned reason, and when I try and talk to her all she does is cry.
If it weren't for my friends, I'd probably of killed myself.... I was really REALLY thinking about it for the past few days, and than I talked to my friend Krista, and I thought of how sad she'd get if I killed myself, and I don't want her to go through that...
I'll still kill myself, if I can't go to college though. If I can't contribute to society, why live?

[Dead Sexy Vocab]

Crawwwwlling iiiiin mmyy ssskiiiiiin.

[Pierrot le Fou]

People who have never considered suicide seriously just can't fathom that to some people suicide is an incredibly comforting thought. I have never been seriously suicidal, but like Nietzsche said, at rough times in life I'd lay in bed and think that if I did want out, I always had that option.

And that's comforting to me.

There are so many times in life when people feel like they have no choice. Whether it be due to severe depression, social pressures, or cancer eating them alive slowly, people feel like there's no way out of their situation. And some people are able to fight through those situations or endure them, and others take the last choice they can see, whether or not it was actually the only choice open to them.

And people from the outside, viewing it from their perspective, they don't understand why, they don't understand how someone could do that to themselves. People don't understand why someone would allow themselves to be euthanized while lying in a hospital bed slowly dying in an agonizing way, hopped up on morphine just to keep them mollified. What joy is there in that for them? How selfish is it of you to deny them of that choice because you don't understand it or appreciate their situation?

Why is it that you get so disturbed by teenage suicide? Because it could be you? Why do you allow someone to be bullied or socially pressured to the point where they need to truly consider suicide before you help them? And the ones that go through with it, and succeed, are rarely ones you'd expect to, because having people know you're suicidal is an incredibly good way to prevent yourself from actually being successful.

Some people aren't going to make it for whatever reason. Some weren't treated well enough, some weren't adaptable enough, and some just had a bad month and didn't/couldn't think past it. And that's life. But to decry these people as weak, or taking the easy way out is just insulting. Do you truly think that a weak person could slit both their wrists lengthwise, and resist the urge to call out for help or seek it themselves, and wait for themselves to pass out from blood loss? Do you truly think that a weak person could leap off a building against every self-preservation mechanism they instinctually have? Do you truly think that a weak person could tie a knot to hang themselves with, attach it to a branch strong and high enough, and then jump off to snap their neck and likely suffocate if they don't drop far enough?

Those are not things that weak people do.

I do not think suicide is a good choice. I also recognize that for some people it's their only choice, and others just didn't see a different way out. I can sympathize with the feeling if not with their solution to it. And I can't demonize them because they're just as human as you or I. It is a horrible thing to go through if it happens to someone you love or even just know well. It is almost unbearable to wonder how someone you knew and spoke to could have appreciated their life so little as to do that. And you wonder if part of it was your fault, if you could have changed something, if you could have made it okay...

When someone gets hit by a car, it's easy to understand, even if it still is hard to cope with. You're coping with the loss -- not the method of the loss. With suicide, you get screwed up because of the combination of mourning the victim, as well as blaming them for their own death.

And that what makes this such a messy subject for so many people. This is why people scream back and forth about it. This is why everyone brings up how this 'isn't a laughing matter' because their good friend committed suicide or whatnot. Because everyone wants to try to make it seem like they know suicide best, and that makes their opinion the most valid.

That's why people preface posts with, "I was depressed..." or "I was suicidal..." or whatnot, in order to give perspective on their posts.

And that's why some people who have nothing close to experiences involving actual suicides or depression just gawk with disbelief.

Suicide is an incredibly personal thing, and I think that's not such a bad thing. Speaking about it rarely produces any benefit rather than people still not understanding, or still trying to seek for justification, explanation, rationalization, or some sort of 'cure' for the ways suicide screws with their heads.

Some people just don't make it, like car crashes, like cancer, like heart attacks.

It's just a lot harder to deal with when someone's life is their own cancer.

[Komachi Angel]

There are heaps of ways to contribute to society, each of them valid. Some get more recognition than others, but all are necessary. For a start, if you feel very strongly about something then it is always good to try express your feelings in some way. Artistic pursuits come in all shapes and sizes, and are a good outlet. Not only this, but you can often help others this way as well.

[NERD]

Well, I know it would hurt people around me, and I honestly don't give a fuck if my mom cares about me killing myself. I mean I love her. I know she loves me, but if I love her should I not do it? I mean she loves me, yet she just gets drunk pretty much every night, and just tries to start fights with me, and yells at me for no god damned reason, and when I try and talk to her all she does is cry.
If it weren't for my friends, I'd probably of killed myself.... I was really REALLY thinking about it for the past few days, and than I talked to my friend Krista, and I thought of how sad she'd get if I killed myself, and I don't want her to go through that...
I'll still kill myself, if I can't go to college though. If I can't contribute to society, why live?

I'm more or less ambivalent about suicide- I've considered the option at one point, I'd be lying if I said I didn't. And I'm not your counselor, friend or family, but a stranger. So I have no right to tell you whether you should keep living on or not, nor do I intend to preach you that. I also realize I'm only few years older than you are, haven't been through different facets of life compared to many people out there, thus lacking the experience to share my opinions on a heavy subject like suicide: but I guess there are few things I could tell you.

I do consider suicide as a luxury that mankind has. Animals, when they fall out of the race for survival, have no option to kill themselves, even if that means the short remainder of their life means living in complete misery. Like a fish suffocating to death in a dried up lake, an aging lion dying of starvation, etc. Yet they live for that short period of time, because they have no other options. Don't try to tell me whatever personal problems you've got is more painful than that.

I'm not gonna comment on your family life. That's not the place for me. However, do know that there are people who come from harsher backgrounds than you do, yet they have this great lust for life, that they have a dream, hopes that things will be better. If you don't have that, if you don't have a drive to keeps you going on, then I guess you don't have much to live for at this point.

Contribution to society? Fuck that. Who gives a shit? If you can't contribute to the society and become a bum, nobody's gonna blame you for that, and you may go on with your life. But obviously you don't want that if you are saying you want to graduate from high school and go to college. Then do it, for fuck's sake. Don't moan and whine about things that you are gonna lose- if you never made efforts for it, then obviously you don't deserve it. Killing yourself because you can't go to college? Give me a break. There's more people in the world who never went to college compared to the people who did. Yet those people, some of them not even literate, not even aware of the vastness of the world that surrounds them, still lead their daily life with hopes of a better tomorrow, no matter how harsh their world may be. You are in a better position than so many people in the world, and you can't even imagine how they'd long to be in your position.

But hey, it's your life man. If you don't think you can go on, then I guess you can't. Human life itself is relative to one another. It's just that you sound like the usual suburban kids with no drive and no focus.

[Anubis Nine]

Thank you Peirrot, you said everything I tried to say in a more eloquent and... well a better way.

[keitaidensha]

lol suicide

[Loc]

Well PLF said everything I wanted to so there's my thoughts on it.
It's not really that funny when it happens to someone you know, by the way.

[Darkblade]

Its "a way out" for weak willed people or those who just arent psychologically stable and strong enough to work their way out of situations.

if you want a good example of the opposite:
My parents separated when I was two
A drunk driver on the wrong side of the road crashed into our car when I was 4. My brother went out the windshield and is handicapped to this day. I also got to watch my mother die right in front of me because i was smashed stuck under the drivers seat. (we were hit so bad she was thrown into the passengers seat, where the dashboard crushed her. I had a broken arm, broken legs, fractured facial structure.
After the months of rehabilitation in the hospital, my dad came back from Germany (U.S. military) to pick us up and brought us to live with him in Germany. His girlfriend beat both my brother and myself daily and locked us in a closet for 2 to 3 months at a time with little or no food and water. We had to sleep on an air mattress covered with feces and urine, as we couldnt get out of the closet. She let us out 2 or 3 days before my dad came back out of the field every time. We tried to tell him what was going on, but he didnt believe us and beat us for "lying". This went on for years. Then my dad came back home a week early to surprise her and found us in the closet. We heard a huge fight and my dad opened the door and said "come on boys, we're leaving"
Afterwards, it was in an out of diverse "caretaker" homes while my dad was in the field (by the way, in the field means when you are in the military and have to go for 3 months on maneuvers). I was laughed at in school for years until I joined the football team. No one on the team liked me either, but they were forced to respect me. I made defensive captain in my freshman year and dominated the field. I vented all my frustration and agression constructively. anyone that came near me on the field carrying the ball was sent to the hospital. I became a peer for those in classes below me, because i showed them they could earn respect without being part of the "in-crowd". I still have lots of stuff pent up inside, but Im not killing myself. I dont think about suicide. Most of the situations in life have no way out. Welcome to life. Im living till I die.

[Pierrot le Fou]

And this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about -- someone who assumes that their experience is the universal truth of the matter.

I'm truly glad that you have done something productive with your life, and have fought your way through a tough upbringing and childhood. I am amazed that you have been as successful as you are, and rather impressed. I also think that the fact that you use your natural coping mechanisms to put down people who may not have been born with the same psychological makeup, or who didn't have the same drive, is incredibly disappointing.

In some ways I think that you, more than anyone, should feel what it's like for these people -- a horrible situation, a horrible past, seemingly few choices -- and sympathize that some people just can't cope with that.

At the same time I realize that your circumstances, and the reason for your drive towards success probably prevents you from allowing yourself to think that way. So it's a wash, and nothing can be done.

I mean, I could give a sob story of my own, and indicate how despite feeling that suicide was my only way out, after a few lucky breaks I found happiness again, but understand what drives people to do it, but then we'd just be having a pissing contest. Whose story is worse? Which is exaggerating? Who felt worse? And that leads nowhere.

So we get all these stories, about these horrible upbringings that justify suicide, or show how it's never justified, and we never actually address the fundamental facts of why it's such a contentious issue, or why it affects us so much, or the slew of other issues surrounding it.

What I do know is that suicides happen every single day, and they don't show any signs of slowing -- let alone stopping. We can call it weak-willed, the will of God, a horrible sin, not their fault, due to depression, or whatever we want, but it doesn't change the fact that it keeps happening.

We can sit here and discuss whether suicide is a valid way out or not, but it won't change the fact that little Jimmy is slitting his wrists right now in his bathroom for his parents to find when they come to wake him up for school.

And that's where the real focus should be. Not on whether or not it's a valid choice or not, but on the fact that it's a choice people are making every day, and ways to prevent it or to lessen it's impact on the lives of the survivors left behind.

Pissing contests and sob stories won't help the 50 year-old man who lost his wife and hung himself from a tree. And they won't help the 30 year-old in a job he hates feeling he wasted his youth from keeping the garage closed and turning on his car. It won't help the women with severe depression after a miscarriage from shooting herself with her husband's handgun. And it won't help any of the people those folks leave behind -- parents, children, family, and loved ones.

But yet it seems to always be the focus anyway.

[Darkblade]

I didnt say I have never thought about it, just that I dont think about it. there was a point in my life when I had thought if I were dead, there would be no more problems, i wouldnt be inconveniencing anyone anymore. Around the same time, I came to the realization that Im not the only one on the planet with problems, and although my life has been extremely f*d up so far, theres undoubtedly someone worse off somewhere else.
;)

I only get mad when people use upbringing as an excuse for their actions later in life. "he killed everyone cause his parents beat him" is just wrong. Every person is responsible for their own actions.

and if someone really wants to die.... just wait a while, it will happen without your interference.

[freeradicals]

To be frank, I believe that suicide is for wussies.
There are always alternatives to relieving your depression and meditation is one of them. Thats helped me alot in times of pain and made me more aware of my emotions.
Try it, it may change your life.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Everyone is responsible for their own actions to a point. You really can't hold someone with a gun to their child's head to the same standards as someone who can do anything they want and chooses to do the same horrible act. After all, someone who kills someone for kicks, and someone who does it to save their child are very very different people most likely.

Suicide is the same way. Some people do it for kicks, some people do it because they have a chemical balance or whatnot that cuts out the normal rational decision-making process, and you cannot consider each to be the same in my opinion.

Life is performed in context of other events. Suicide is as well. You cannot take it out of context and act as if that act happened in a vacuum. I understand why someone like Job from the Bible would kill himself. He got sick, lost his family, all his possessions, and God was screwing with him. Were Bill Gates to commit suicide, I'd be baffled.

And I think you would feel the same way too.

[Darkblade]

sorry, that last paragraph reminded me of this:

One night, a Delta twin-engine puddle jumper was flying somewhere above New Jersey. There were five people on board: the pilot, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, the Dali Lama, and a kid. Suddenly, an illegal oxygen generator exploded loudly in the luggage compartment, and the passenger cabin began to fill with smoke. The cockpit door opened, and the pilot burst into the compartment.

"Gentlemen," he began, "I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that we're about to crash in New Jersey. The good news is that there are four parachutes, and I have one of them!" With that, the pilot threw open the door and jumped from the plane.

Michael Jordan was on his feet in a flash. "Gentlemen," he said, "I am the world's greatest athlete. The world needs great athletes. I think the world's greatest athlete should have a parachute!" With these words, he grabbed one of the remaining parachutes, and hurtled through the door and into the night.

Bill Gates rose and said, "Gentlemen, I am the world's smartest man. The world needs smart men. I think the world's smartest man should have a parachute, too." He grabbed one, and out he jumped.

The Dali Lama and the kid looked at one another. Finally, the Dali Lama spoke. "My son," he said, "I have lived a satisfying life and have known the bliss of True Enlightenment. You have your life ahead of you; you take a parachute, and I will go down with the plane."

The kid smiled slowly and said, "Hey, don't worry, dude. The world's smartest man just jumped out wearing my backpack."

[Monkey]

If people want to commit suicide then I think they should. The world can only be better off without the cowards.

On the other hand though I find teen suicide really wrong/funny. It's like deciding that life isn't worth living before you've even begun. I barely remember my everyday life before I left school, all I took with me was my education and my friends. As long as you have those you should be fine. Sod it, even the friends isn't a necessary part.

Life begins after school. On the grand scale of things (which isn't all that grand) school life is quite unimportant.

[Praetorian]

Just wanted to say that this is the first time I've actually changed my mind about something after reading a "debate" on the internet. Nice one, Pierrot. I agree with what you've said. Before this I'd have said that people comitting suicide are somewhat pathetic and just craving for attention, but your strong arguments have made me change my mind. Just wanted to say, as it's basically an anominaly anybody pulls their head out of his/her ass about something after reading a forum debate.

[Monkey]

Just wanted to say that this is the first time I've actually changed my mind about something after reading a "debate" on the internet. Nice one, Pierrot. I agree with what you've said. Before this I'd have said that people comitting suicide are somewhat pathetic and just craving for attention, but your strong arguments have made me change my mind. Just wanted to say, as it's basically an anominaly anybody pulls their head out of his/her ass about something after reading a forum debate.


I don't really care about forum debates anymore. I used to, but then I realised that it's extremely unlikely to change someones mind when you cannot meet them in person. So now I rarely bother. Just put forward a point of view and make sure that people understand it. Whether they agree or not is unimportant.

[Idlethought]

On the other hand though I find teen suicide really wrong/funny. It's like deciding that life isn't worth living before you've even begun. I barely remember my everyday life before I left school, all I took with me was my education and my friends. As long as you have those you should be fine. Sod it, even the friends isn't a necessary part.

Life begins after school. On the grand scale of things (which isn't all that grand) school life is quite unimportant.

I agree, teen suicide is straight foolishness

[Praetorian]

Off Topic: Monkey ended his speech with the word "unimportant" twice in a row. This calls for a celebration.


On topic: Extremely unlikely, but possible as witnessed here.

[ruaidhri]

Life sure isn’t simple. With its many twists and turns its course certainly isn’t determined. So, you haven’t done well in school. Neither did I. I didn’t do well in Grade School, High School or when I first went into college.

Now I knew I wasn’t stupid and I’m sure you know yourself well enough to realize that you also are not stupid. What did I do when I didn’t make it in college? I joined the U.S. Coast Guard. We had a draft and service was required of all young men. Vietnam was firing up and I certainly didn’t want to go on the killing fields. My brother had been in the Coast Guard during WWII and I considered that their primary goal was to save, not take, lives. Sounded good to me and in I went.

Boy, was I surprised. My very first day in boot camp, I asked myself what the fuck I had done. The Coast Guard boot camp was, and I believe still is, run like the Marine Corps boot camp. It was 13 weeks long and damn, it was rough, but I made it.

My first assignment was on a Coast Guard Buoy Tender, the USCGC Mallow, which later acquired the nickname “black pig of death”. We serviced large ocean buoys (40 feet long and 10 feet wide) along the Oregon coast line. Believe me, working on the deck force of a Coast Guard buoy tender is not fun.

I began to reconsider the benefits of school. I put all my effort into doing the best job possible on my ship. I wanted to get transferred to a Coast Guard school and I knew my officer didn’t transfer goof offs. Well, 13 months later I was on my way to Coast Guard Yeoman school in Groton, CT. This was nice, clean and like a prep school with four actual beds to a room instead of the smelly, small area with rows of three hammocks one on top of the other and right next to each other that was the crews quarters on the Mallow. I worked hard in my classes. I worked harder than anyone else. I worked so hard that I was the top student in the school.

When I graduated, I was sent to Seattle, WA. Because I had done so well in the school the Seattle Base decided they wanted me to stay in their office. This, they accomplished by transferring another Yeoman to the USCGC Northwind, a large ice breaker that routinely made trips up into the ice packs above Alaska. My hard work in school paid off. There is no way I would have enjoyed ice breaker duty even if it were in an office on board the ship. Do you know how they break ice? They back up, race towards the ice and with their special ice breaking bow slide up onto the ice pack. The weight of the ship crushes the ice. Then they back up again and start all over. This they do both day and night. Sometimes the ice doesn’t break. Then they send men over onto the ice with dynamite. Of course they have to have lookouts with high powered rifles to protect the men on the ice from hungry polar bears.

When I left the Coast Guard, I returned home and back to school. Well, I liked partying and soon dropped out. I found a job typing bills of lading on second shift. I was promoted several times to higher and higher positions in the Traffic Department mostly because I had the seniority and because I could do the job. As always, I did the best job I could.

Then, my company was sold to a large international corporation and new opportunities opened for those willing to work. I went back to school and took courses specific to my field, industrial transportation management. I learned how to rate shipments. I learned how to purchase transportation services. I learned transportation law and regulations. I took course after course and earned certifications in Transportation Management and general business management. Although, I didn’t have a degree the company promoted me to a management position.

In management I continued going to school taking job specific courses not only in transportation but also in sales and marketing and other disciplines. I saved my company millions and millions and millions of dollars through hard negotiations and innovations.

Certainly, education is important but, a college degree is not the only avenue. Consider how many people are going to college today. Consider how many jobs are available. Consider the law of supply and demand. What happens when there are more people than jobs? Salaries and benefits go down. A very good alternative is an Associate Degree or certificate from a vocational school in one the trades. Start your own company and take university extension courses in accounting, management, etc. The truth is that, today, college, may not be your best course.

Do what I did. Join the Coast Guard. It’s different from the other services. Ship board duty is a heck of a lot better today than it was in the 1960’s. You could ride fast, small boats that truly kick ass. You could make a difference and actually save peoples lives. Check into it. The Coast Guard is a member of the U.S. Armed Forces but its primary function is homeland security and saving, not taking, lives. Besides, they will give you good training that will benefit you for all your life and will provide you with money for college or vocational training when you get out. Actually, today, a lot of people elect to stay in the Coast Guard and make it a career. It’s really not a bad idea. A friend of mine back from my days on the Mallow stayed in and became a Master Chief Petty Officer, the highest enlisted rank.

I guess what I’ve been saying with all these words is that suicide should never be an option. Life does have many twists and turns. What’s bad can easily turn out good. You also can twist and turn to meet life’s challenges. I wouldn’t have written this much if I didn’t care.

[Trump]

I feel that everyone looks at suicide from the wrong angle. They always look at reasons to do it instead of reasons not to do it. If you can come up with one reason, even the most insignificant reason why you should not do it, then that's enough. Something as simple as "if I wasn't here, who would water the plants" is enough reason. Even something like "but one day I wanted to fly in a plane" or "I want to make someone smile" is enough. I won't lambast people for having these thoughts, but to truly consider it is unexcusable.

The great thing about being human is we ALWAYS have a choice, have control over where we want our life to go, whether you can see the path or not.

[Darkblade]

my diversion was coming to the conclusion that death is an inevitibility. Why rush things? stick around and see how things turn out before it happens.

[keitaidensha]

sorry, that last paragraph reminded me of this:

One night, a Delta twin-engine puddle jumper was flying somewhere above New Jersey. There were five people on board: the pilot, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, the Dali Lama, and a kid. Suddenly, an illegal oxygen generator exploded loudly in the luggage compartment, and the passenger cabin began to fill with smoke. The cockpit door opened, and the pilot burst into the compartment.

"Gentlemen," he began, "I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that we're about to crash in New Jersey. The good news is that there are four parachutes, and I have one of them!" With that, the pilot threw open the door and jumped from the plane.

Michael Jordan was on his feet in a flash. "Gentlemen," he said, "I am the world's greatest athlete. The world needs great athletes. I think the world's greatest athlete should have a parachute!" With these words, he grabbed one of the remaining parachutes, and hurtled through the door and into the night.

Bill Gates rose and said, "Gentlemen, I am the world's smartest man. The world needs smart men. I think the world's smartest man should have a parachute, too." He grabbed one, and out he jumped.

The Dali Lama and the kid looked at one another. Finally, the Dali Lama spoke. "My son," he said, "I have lived a satisfying life and have known the bliss of True Enlightenment. You have your life ahead of you; you take a parachute, and I will go down with the plane."

The kid smiled slowly and said, "Hey, don't worry, dude. The world's smartest man just jumped out wearing my backpack."
see, i told you guys suicide is funny

rofl

[setrict]

The great thing about being human is we ALWAYS have a choice, have control over where we want our life to go, whether you can see the path or not.

QFT

I think many if not most suicides are the result of a lack of objectivity or perspective. People easily get caught up in the absolute reality they build for themselves, and when it fails them they see no alternative. It's not that there are no alternatives, it's that they are blinded by the restrictions they have placed upon themselves. Try rebuilding your reality before removing yourself from it. Go kick a cop in the nads if you need a few years to think about things, and distance yourself from life for a while. Almost ANY alternative is better than the final one. That's my thought anyway.

[Monkey]

Off Topic: Monkey ended his speech with the word "unimportant" twice in a row. This calls for a celebration.


On topic: Extremely unlikely, but possible as witnessed here.


Maybe it's because so many things in life seem to be taken out of all proportion when in actuality they are unimportant.

PS: Can't end on that word again so I'll type some random crap here. Very observant by the way :p

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

My thoughts on suicide you are wanting, eh?
I have a family history of self- and other-distruction. I'm prolly genetically predispositioned to depression, and am manic-depressive myself. (I don't take meds. I don't like how I feel on meds, so I just surf it out.) I also tend towards the impulsive.
I don't want to write about it extensively, because I used to do so explicitly for attention and pity, but yeah, my parents screwed me over. Stuff was done to me that if I saw done to another child, I'd call the police.
So, here's this eight-year-old who has been taught that she's not wanted (since she's generally treated that way) who doesn't yet have the capacity to understand that it's not her fault, and feels trapped and powerless, the root of depression. She gathered up all the asprin in the house and took them all (I'd guess, about 1,000, spaced out over a couple hours). But, I'm not dead.
The human brain doesn't reach maturity until you're 25. As a person enters their late teen years, then begin to have more access to the rational/consequences part of thier brain, and can think of things in a more long-term view, although I find many humans shortsighted *coughBushcough* about what consequences thier actions have in the long term, like the next hundred years.
I do think that the more empowered a person feels about their life, the less likely it is that suicide will become an attractive option. If there isn't any room for allowance for discussion or other points of view, then depression becomes likely. Then again, not all who commit suicide or try to are depressive. Anyways, I think that the more respected you are when you're a child, the less attractive suicide is.

As an aside, how do you think of the suicide bombers? They aren't depressed, almost certianly. And they aren't really trying to "find a way out" I think. I mean, what they are litterally saying to me goes something like this: "I am so mad at you, I am going to go blow myself up, and take as many along with me!"

[Pierrot le Fou]

I already said earlier, that suicide can be used as a form of attention-getting, because it is so counter to everything we as humans expect people to believe about life. It isn't about anger, it's about the horror of someone being so bent on killing you that he loses the self-preservation instinct. It's about the horror of seeing someone who you can't stop with reason or force, because he'll have no problem going down with the ship and is willing to try his darnedest to take you with him.

That's horrendous.

It's like the author in Japan in the 70's who committed suicide through hara-kiri (cutting his stomach sideways, then vertically, all by himself). While it may have been mental illness, the goal of the suicide was as much to call attention to himself as it was to actually kill himself. Same principle.

And for the love of God, please don't mention Bush when it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

[keitaidensha]

I already said earlier, that suicide can be used as a form of attention-getting, because it is so counter to everything we as humans expect people to believe about life. It isn't about anger, it's about the horror of someone being so bent on killing you that he loses the self-preservation instinct. It's about the horror of seeing someone who you can't stop with reason or force, because he'll have no problem going down with the ship and is willing to try his darnedest to take you with him.

That's horrendous.

It's like the author in Japan in the 70's who committed suicide through hara-kiri (cutting his stomach sideways, then vertically, all by himself). While it may have been mental illness, the goal of the suicide was as much to call attention to himself as it was to actually kill himself. Same principle.

And for the love of God, please don't mention Bush when it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
george w. bush is responsible for 43% of suicides

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

I already said earlier, that suicide can be used as a form of attention-getting, because it is so counter to everything we as humans expect people to believe about life. It isn't about anger, it's about the horror of someone being so bent on killing you that he loses the self-preservation instinct. It's about the horror of seeing someone who you can't stop with reason or force, because he'll have no problem going down with the ship and is willing to try his darnedest to take you with him.

That's horrendous.

It's like the author in Japan in the 70's who committed suicide through hara-kiri (cutting his stomach sideways, then vertically, all by himself). While it may have been mental illness, the goal of the suicide was as much to call attention to himself as it was to actually kill himself. Same principle.

And for the love of God, please don't mention Bush when it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

First, eww to the hara-kiri. I would not like to be the CSI smelling that scene. I bet it's traditional or whatnot.

You know, I wonder if the suicide bombers will ever run out. Prolly not; I suppose there will always be people willing to die for a "cause," because the cause seems so much more worthy than a single, putrid human life. Do you think if we'd ignore them they'd go away? In my dreams...

I only metioned Bush because his actions seem so shortsighted. Suicide also seems to be a shortsighted solution. I don't blame him for things out of his control, like hurricanes. He is however, responsible for directing the people who do the directing for getting things *ahem* taken care of.

[Soli]

Whenever I get suicidal thoughts I take a nap. I feel much better when I wake up. :)

[Zslash]

Time for a quick story:

I went to a catholic school high school in brooklyn. This took place ~2 years ago, it was near halloween. Now I had spent alot of time making my own costume, for no real reason other than that I had alot of disposeable income and bored friends.

Now two days before halloween, I'm in my physics lab class and we get word that some girl killed herself. Some girls in the class arent suprised at all, some cry, some take the oppertunity to just mess around, seeing as there wouldnt be much of class that day. Now, the school's plan to have a costumed say was, to say the least destroyed.

I found out later that the girl who died was a niece of my mother's friend, and that her family was, kinda rough ( hard to find the right word for this).

In spite of all this the only thing that really come to mind when ever I think of her death is that .. It just ruined my day.

Now it is true that I'm being selfish, Im pretty much aware of that. What I'm trying to say is this: For alot of people (Probably outside your family) the end of your life is going to be an inconvenience, and even after that you'll be forgotten ( well If you're a teen) I'm not gonna bother talking about reasons- I havent been to the point where its presented itself to me.

Now, do you really want to have your life boiled down to : That guy ruined my day?

[Bruti]

An acquaintance of mine killed himself about half a year ago, leaving a devastated family and a girlfriend behind. We knew he was in trouble, but after his things seemed to get straight, he kissed her girlfriend goodbye, went to a railroad crossing and made the jump. He had a rather nasty case of maniac depression.

When I heard the news, my first reaction was "You're joking, man. I mean, he had a stable job, someone he loved, and he was on an upward track in his life. Why would have he done something like that?"

Of course, I had to accept that the guy who called me was not messing with me. We figured that the shred of hope that came to his life was the one that pushed him over the edge. He got used to the overall shittiness of his life (as he perceived it): what he wasn't ready for was the chance for something better.

I was hell of a bastard during the trip to the town where his funeral was held: I was joking all the way to there and back. (Not during the funeral, though - I prefer not to be beaten to death with heavy stone slabs.) I think I was probably fighting the thought that we didn't do enough to save him. The thing is, something we all agreed upon, that we cannot and would not save anyone from his own actions. We cannot maintain a constant watch, cannot restrain his movement, tie him to a chair, tube-feed him to avoid a messy business with a spork. We can do some checks, meet him regularly, cheer him up if we can, but cannot give him a will to live.

That is true for me, too. But my will to live is fine, and has been fine up to this point. (I won't give the bastards the chance to see cry fake tears at my grave. And I certainly wouldn't like to make my parents see themselves as failures.)

Two cents. There.

Bye,
Bruti

[Nikki]

Suicide is something that is incredibly painful, especially for the people who are close to the person who committed it.(Yeah, that's a little obvious)
My father actually committed suicide when I was littler, and even though I have no memories of him, there are still the after effects. I know that when it happened, and I finally realized he was never coming back, I quit talking for an entire year(I had just learned to, too. Heh), resulting in me being far behind in my speech because I didn't get that practice in. (Don't worry, I got caught up. ^.^)

Now, I have accepted it completely, and it doesn't really bother me. But as each new stage of maturity comes, it's something that you have to deal with all over again. I know that my older sister, who knew my dad and has few memories of him, broke down a couple weeks ago.
It's something that never truly goes away, but you make room for it in your heart and in your life.

And I really, really disagree with PLF. With teenagers, yeah, it might be a way of getting attention. But my father wasn't looking for attention, he just saw little hope for the future.

It's said that people who commit suicide have at least tried to do it a few times and failed before they finally gather the courage to do it. They become detached and oftentimes violent/abusive towards their families, and more often than not, they choose important dates, holidays, or anniversaries to kill themselves on.(How do I know this, you ask? Well, lets just say I've researched it)

And Monkey? I find your reply to be completely naive and ignorant. While you find suicide to be quite humorous, it's not. My father was out of high school, graduated college with honors, had a wife that he loved, and four children. So does that fit your stereotypical suicidee? No, I really don't think it does!!! I think when you grow up a little, or you know, experience something like suicide, you'll change your mind. The reason you responded the way you did is because you have no idea what it feels like. To you it's not real, and you can't even begin to comprehend it.
And I really have to stop here, because I'm getting too riled up. :mad:

[Collapse]

Suicide? Pussies only do it. The crux of the matter is that life is indeed tough but it doesn't mean you'll have to give up if shit doesn't go your way. Get bent. Everybody does. And stop being too damn emotional at times.

[Pierrot le Fou]

Adults do it to get attention too sometimes. Really, saying that you completely disagree with me because your father didn't commit suicide for that reason doesn't hold water. It is quite possible for other people to do things differently than he did.

And people who commit suicide are in no way 'pussies.' I'd love to see you have the balls to hang yourself -- it ain't easy. Otherwise suicide wouldn't be regarded so poorly.

[Invictus]

And people who commit suicide are in no way 'pussies.' I'd love to see you have the balls to hang yourself -- it ain't easy.

One might just as easily tell a suicidal person:

"I'd love to see you have the balls to persevere and keep on living, despite what you perceive as a hopeless situation."

The reason why folks say that suicide is cowardly is because it's an escape, fleeing from your problems instead of confronting them.

[Pierrot le Fou]

And yet I don't see people decrying the other folks on the forum for other escapes, such as anime obsession or obsession with Japan. I don't hear people screaming about how they're all 'pussies.'

People all have defense-mechanisms and escape to various extents. Unless there are people out there who take absolutely no chemicals, try to prevent themselves from upping their endorphin levels in any way, don't read or watch movies, and don't have any hobbies. And that ain't going to happen.

It's just that suicide as an escape is absolute, and it involves death, which people are (understandably) squeamish about.

There are those people who escape in the 'real world' without killing themselves, and they don't get NEARLY the flak that someone who commits suicide gets. And that's just odd to me. Yes, you can say they don't have the balls to keep on living, but if their life is so miserable that hanging yourself is a better way to go about things, that's one Hell of a ballsy guy either way in my opinion, because neither of those options is appealing to me.

It's really easy for someone who has never known someone who has really seriously suffered depression or other miscellaneous issues, or experienced them personally, to state that these people should live. To what point can you truly empathize? Do you truly think they didn't have their reasons -- valid in your world view or not?

Have you actually read a suicide note? It's eerie to say the least, especially if it's someone you know.

Have you read their justifications? Their apologies? Have you seen that they understand it's a bad thing, but that they have their reasons and view it as a legitimate rational choice to their predicament? Don't you realize how miserable these people are to UNDERSTAND that people care about them, to have the foresight to apologize to them, to realize that it's going to hurt them, and still do it anyway?

It is VERY difficult to hold a world view that accepts suicide as an acceptable choice -- that's why it's contrary to the morals of just about every society in the world. That's why religions decry it, societies abhor it, and people can't stomach it -- it's one Hell of a sticky issue.

Personally I think it's selfish to suggest that someone should remain miserable so that you don't have to suffer the loss. I think it's selfish to call these people cowards, to say they took the easy way out, when the 'easy' way involved ending their own life against every human instinct.

Mental illness especially is hard to cope with, because we cannot perceive the world in the same way as someone with depression that bad, as we aren't depressed that badly. And those who CAN perceive the world that way don't tend to view suicide as a horrible thing because they're considering it themselves. Once the depression lifts, people typically become staunch opponents to it, like ex-smokers becoming rabidly anti-smoker -- it's a defense mechanism to prevent a relapse.

Suicide is not the coward's way out. It's not the noble way either. It's just an out. A choice among many.

We would never have this discussion about people who watch 10 movies a week, despite it being the same concept.

[DrChicken]

Suicide is a bit like masturbation.

Its a good idea at the time when youre alone but in the end youre only F*cking yourself.

[Jon885]

pierrot you make a good point that someone with a mental illness like depression that commits suicide is understandable and I'm not going to say that the person with a mental illness is a coward if they commit suicide, but depression and other mental illness are treatable and I would hope the person afflicted with depression or any mental illness seek help before killing themselves.

And someone might argue that a person who watches 10 movies a week still has to deal with difficulties in life while a person who kills them self doesn't. So it's not really a fair comparison.

[CrazyAce86]

"Suicide is a person's way of telling God, 'You can't fire me! I quit!'"

I understand why folks do it, and I can never be upset with them for doing it. I miss him and I wish they hadn't, but I understand. I know; I've tried it myself, and a lot of times I wish I had succeeded.

I still do.

Sometimes, death really is better than life, and I can't blame them for making the choice.

[chinesejycc]

Again, morality is relative, and suicide can be right or wrong only when one examines the situation or the circumstances.

[Kuhool]

I've almost done it once, and thought about it seriously another two times, the only thing stopping me from doing it the second time were my beliefs.

[CrazyAce86]

Something did stop me, but it's no longer there and I know I don't have anything else holding me back. I'm worried about it, but there's not much I can do if I go off the deep end.

I think back to 9/11 and the people who jumped out of windows, thinking that if anyone is going to take their life, it's going to be them. The same with those Jews who killed themselves, their children, and each other so that the Romans (?) wouldn't get them. I can understand that thinking; if I'm going to die, I'm going to do it my way.

The ones I don't like are like the Jonestown or Waco incidents; but I can understand it, it's the same basic principal, only we were viewed as the "bad guys."

Still... I think it's a viable option. Maybe not the best one, but it is one.

[Neon Pink Shoehorn]

You know, something reminded me about something Taylor Wang -- the first Chinese-American astronaut -- wrote about his mission. First day of mission, he turned on everyone else's experiments, and they started working, until he got to his own experiment. It didn't work. So he asked ground control if he could repair it, and they were reluctant. So he said "Hey, if you guys don't give me a chance to repair my instrument, I'm not going back"
NASA got a shrink to talk to the crew, and the commander told them that he'd give him a chance to repair it, so they did.
he wrote:
"I was relieved, because I hadn't really figured out how not to come back if they'd called my bluff. The Asian tradition of honorable suicide, seppuku, would have failed, because everythingon the shuttle is designed for safety. The knife onboard can't even cut the bread. You could put your head in the oven, but it's really just a food warmer. You wouldn't even burn yourself. And if you tried to hang yourself with no gravity, you'd just dangle there and look like an idiot."
Airlock comes to mind, but that would have to be assisted suicide in this case, lol.
He did manage to fix his experiment, but he was never let on board a shuttle again.

[Ozero]

my 4.5 brushes with suicide..

1 My friend's dad when I was like 14. One day some kids were mumbling about a dead guy inthe nearby woods. I soon learned it was my friend's dad, who just took a walk with his shotgun and ended it.

I'm not sure of his reasons.. he was in a dead end job, but aside from occasional fights, his family life was OK.. or so it seemed from my perspective.

I tried to be supportive to my friend, and his mom thanked me, said i had always been a good influence, etc... but suddenly more and more, he was smoking, hanging out with the wrong crowd, etc. Shortly after I moved, and lost track of him. Years later, I got a phone call from him. He was filling that same dead end job. Small towns are special.


2 My attempt. 16 years old. I'd moved more times than I'd had birthdays, and add a probable seratonin imbalance, and standard teenage angst.. it seemed like I'd never get to keep a friend, or one home, or heaven forbid, a girl. I did my best to die, but survived. (And didn't get caught) The befuddlment at this failure game me time to think about how it would have affected my mom, and create the survival tactic, "I can always die tomorrow". Besides that, I often regret that the attempt did not work.

3 A friend. She had her idealistic heart broken. I was one of the last people she talked to, trying to comfort her, but her 19th story bedroom window was too tempting. I fixated on that for a long time, with envy. But at the same time, I watched the ripples... no.. the SHOCKWAVE of despair that spread out from her death in all directions.

4.5 in 2001, while cycling to work, I was hit by a car, snapping my spine. As I layed on the road waiting for the ambulance, in more pain than I thought possible, I had a comforting thought. "Maybe today I'll die, and it will be over. I'll be dead, and it wasn't even my fault."

It didnt take long for me to figure out I wasn't going to die.

Now, 4 years later, I'm in constant daily pain, of varying degrees. Unless stem cells come rescue me, (thanks a pile, CERTAIN POLITICIANS), I'll spend the rest of my life in pain.

the little soft voice has new ammo against me. "You hurt.. you hurt.. you're not enjoying anything in this condition. You're a drain on everyone and everything. Come sleep. You did your best."

In responce, i think of my wife, the woman who's done more than could ever be asked of a person for me. I look back at that voice and say, "Shut up, I can always die tomorrow."





that's a stopgap at best, but it's been working for 13 years. Suicide in one day is a desperate attempt at some kind of control. The afore mentioned 'solace' quote, or the 9/11 jumpers....

when you can't control anything, (or it seems like you can't, or dont have the skills to, like many teenagers), then this is one thing that they feel they can do of consequence. And it's so seductive, promising to end all your problems. YOu have to read the fine print, about the problems it causes for everyone else.

oh, another useful quote. "One's life is not one's own." I don't know who that was, but it's neat.

I belong to my wife. She worked darn hard for me. :P Not to mention the rest of my family.

[CrazyAce86]

I don't know about others, but I'm often angry at people's responses to those who've committed suicide. It severely pisses me off when they excommunicate them or do something equally stupid. I'm sorry if it's your belief, but ALL of the dead, no matter how they died, deserved the utmost respect. I don't care if it's a cleric member or a serial killer, they were somebody's parent, somebody's sibling, relative, friend, lover, child, and so on, and they deserve respect.

Some people say that suicide is the coward's way out. Anybody who's been there knows that it takes a lot of courage to do it, and there is no cowardice in death and dying.

All anyone ever owns is their life. A lot of times, it's all we have. It's up to us to live, ignore, hide from, or end it.

It's still a very possible option I'm considering.

[ruaidhri]

As you all should know, I am an old man. I’m 64, which, to me, doesn’t feel old, but by your standards certainly isn’t young. When I was truly young I had no real concern about death. I knew it could be at any turn in the road but you can’t be afraid to the cross the street. Now, natural death isn’t something quite so abstract. Even if I won’t admit to myself that 64 is old, I know that, if I’m lucky, in 16 years I’ll be 80.

So, how do I feel about death? I don’t fear it but then again I certainly won’t put out the welcome mat. I’ve enjoyed life. I want to live a lot longer. I want to remain healthy and alert. I want to experience life just the same as you. One thing I can’t accept is suicide. The concept is entirely foreign to me. I could not conceive ending my own life. Why? Because I know that we can influence the twists and turns of our life. I know that life is full of both downs and ups. How can a person that’s experiencing a down enjoy the coming up if they end it all in a fit of despair? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

I certainly recognize that mental illness and clinical depression can play a significant role in many suicides. My wife is a psychiatric nurse and case manager for mentally ill patients living in the community. She has also worked inpatient with some very sick people with strong desires to harm themselves. True, the medical community can medicate these patients. But, eventually they are released back into the community. Many don’t like the effect of the medicine they’re given to regulate their thoughts and actions. They don’t like the absence of highs and lows. So, they stop taking the medicine. And, it isn’t long before they are back in the hospital on suicide watch. Occasionally, they are successful and end their lives. It’s really very sad even for the health care professionals that have taken care of them sometimes for years. Many never had much of a life. Many burnt bridges with their families. But, they are people with demons that they can’t control.

I had planned to stay off this forum because it’s really more for truly young people not old farts like me. I know my opinions are resented by some. They don’t like advice, which, sadly, I am want to offer. But, suicide is a topic that truly scares me. I’m afraid giving it any credibility as a solution to life’s problems only increases the risk that some young person will choose that option as an acceptable alternative. It isn’t. Very often it’s not totally successful and leaves the individual with serious physical and mental impairment. It devastates their family and the people that care about them. Instead of finding a reasonable solution the person that commits suicide chooses to avoid their problems. They leave the world by committing a very selfish and cruel act. They hurt the very soul of the people that care the most.

A man I worked with had a teenage daughter that committed suicide. She was a very popular, pretty girl, with excellent grades, and a nice boyfriend. She was a cheerleader and appeared to have an excellent life ahead of her. But she obviously had demons and didn’t consider other solutions to her problems. Her death was horrible not only for her family and friends but also for everyone that knew her father at work. I went to the funeral for that pretty young girl that didn’t belong in a casket soon to be buried in the earth. There was a line a block long outside the funeral home of young people from her school. All were sobbing, not crying, sobbing. What was so serious that she couldn’t have sought help from someone?

As I get older I cry easier. When I was young I thought crying was a sign of weakness. It used to make me angry when people cried. Now, I often find it hard not to cry. Why? Because I empathize, That funeral for the young girl really hurt. It affected everyone at work. I’ve never forgotten. I just can’t accept suicide as brave or the smart choice. To me, it’s simply unthinking, uncaring and cruel.

Suicide is not a solution because all it does is end, not solve, a problem. If anyone on this forum has seriously considered ending it all I suggest you seek help from a qualified mental health professional. There are other alternatives. One thing I ask, no, beg, you not to do is to legitimize suicide on this or any other forum. We don’t need young teens faced with the typical angst of their ages to believe for even one second that suicide is brave, the right choice or even an acceptable course.

Please, let’s not encourage suicide.

Moderators, please, let’s end this discussion. This is not where young people should come for advice on anything this serious.

[Quartermaster]

Everybody was somebodies niece, uncle, son, daughter, maybe not father or mother, but you get my drift-they had relations.

However, what if they were evil? By evil, I mean nasty according to our own sensibilities and that of our most basic humanity? Take, for example, Alex from "A Clockwork Orange".

Would anybody be sad if he died? Should anybody be sad if he died? He did make his own choices to be naughty after all, and was an active damper on his family. If there was anything to be sad for, it'd be the way he turned out.

That said, I'll decide who deserves my respect and won't lather it out over some corpse simply because it's a corpse.

Some people say that suicide is the coward's way out. Anybody who's been there knows that it takes a lot of courage to do it, and there is no cowardice in death and dying.

I always imagined the cowardice would be in simply giving up without trying to make the situation better by/or giving it your all or helping others, or refusing to stick thru despite the people who need them or don't want them to go, the selfishness in other words.

Ozero: I admire your strength and hope your situation becomes better.

CrazyAce86: Go to a psychiatrist.

[Life25Karma]

I agree that suicide is something that should not be taken lightly at all.

I think its funny that people would call it a cop out, etc, but don't take the time to fill the shoes of the other person. :( - What may seem less an issue to you, could be totally different from someone else. I rather help the person than clown them.

For some reaspon, people think its the answer to solving problems. - and when you lose someone close to you because they decide to kill themselves, its not exactly easy to deal with. :mad:

[Ozero]

i used to hang out on a irc channel for depression.. in theory, it was for support, but more often than not, it came down to a "my life is worse than yours" thing, where only the truely tragic were off-hands for pissing contests..

now and there there was actual support, but usually the 'good nights' were just self-pity orgies.... HOWEVER, the first time i went there, i suddenly felt normal... that there were other people fighting this crap.

I suppose the most dangerous aspect was when some 'kid' wandered in looking for an ear, but got unlucky, and only found a crank in the mood for putting down the kid's 'petty' problems.

heh... i got the heck out of that scene when i became a paraplegic. I'm not sure why.. but it was probably a good thing.

[MajorProblem]

I was suicidal not long ago. I have no good friends, just a couple bad ones. I had never kissed a girl. I was a weakling. I was bad in school. Life sucked. I spent many nights staring at the rifle. It was so tempting, I didn't have to feel any pain, just pull the trigger. It would finally give attention to me! But, I stopped, finding random excuses not to. "Halo 2 is coming out in a couple months, I want that." "I want to fly a plane." "I can just join the army and die while helping the nation." But, I got out of it, and soon after fell in love. Read my topic for the rest of the story. Please people, suicide is bad, you never know when your life might suddenly turn around.

[Psychochink]

Been there, (not) done that. Looked down the barrel, pressed down on the accelerator, decided not to go ahead (obviously).

It's the coward's way out. I spent Saturday night talking down a maudlin drunk friend on the (pretty much) anniversary of a friend's death and trying to convince him that it wasn't his fault. Mostly because that chicken-shit son of a bitch kept making it other people's responsibility to keep him alive. Thus leaving my mate in a perfect position to keep blaming himself, ten years later. Not how I wanted to spend a Saturday night drinking session.

If he was alive, I'd beat him half to death. If you decide to kill yourself in a way that makes it as hard as possible on others, fuck you and if there's any justice the God I don't believe in is vengeful.

...not that I'm biased or anything.

[Invictus]

People thinking about suicide should watch the amazingly good movie It's a Wonderful Life. You never know how much even your seemingly worthless life has had, is having, and will have an impact on the world around you.

[CrazyAce86]

Even the evil deserve respect. I'm not saying the same respect you'd give a hero or someone you look up to, but the basic respect that all dead deserve.

And for the record, "bad" and "evil" are terms relative to your point of view. We saw Hitler as evil. A lot of people saw him as a hero who saved his country. Go back in history-- Vlad the Impaler. Slaughtered thousands, and was good at it, but abolished crime during his reign and some Romanian folk still consider him to be a savior of their country.

It's relative. A lot of people think George Bush is a good man. A lot of people also think he's the devil incarnate.

That's what I meant when I said everyone was someone's sibling, parent, child, etc. All of the dead deserve basic respect; no desecration, no violation, and so on.

[fo0d]

A natural outcome of severe chronic depression. Its a sad case, but very real. Many people can say they are crazy, but not understand how much these people are suffering. It's not like they wanted to be depressed. Neither should they only blame everything on the environemnt.

If anyone begins to think of suicidal, the best solution is to find someone you can confide in (which in many cases, dont have, and also likely they dont have the ability to do so). Try to summon up as much courage as you can and share these thoughts and feelings to a psychologist. Because over the bridge, lies the greener pasture.

[p3p]

If you're chronically ill I feel that suicide is an acceptable way to end it but other than that I think it's a waste.

[more cheerios]

At moment when one is contemplating suicide, suddenly, one will regret it dreadfully. Why do you think people who jump off a roof normally scream or let out a moan before they hit the ground? People (be it suicidal or not) don't necessarely fully grasp the idea of being gone for good. Suicide and death is not truly taken seriously by people who are suicidal, but taken as a comfort (as PLF said). You can ponder and wish for death, but when the time comes, you are suddenly scared. The very fact that you hold fear in your heart means that truly, somewhere inside of you, you know there is a way out. I think that suicidal people know there is a way, but refuse to accept it, due to their current situation. I don't tell a lot of people offline about how I was suicidal (family issues) but I do know that I can relate. And after the fact, I am very happy I didn't end my life. I joined a support group, so I've heard the stories of others. All say that at one point, they did never realized how serious death was. They just thought of it as easy. They never thought they would be so scared when the time came or while they were attempting to carry it out.

[Quartermaster]

Even the evil deserve respect. I'm not saying the same respect you'd give a hero or someone you look up to, but the basic respect that all dead deserve.

And for the record, "bad" and "evil" are terms relative to your point of view. We saw Hitler as evil. A lot of people saw him as a hero who saved his country. Go back in history-- Vlad the Impaler. Slaughtered thousands, and was good at it, but abolished crime during his reign and some Romanian folk still consider him to be a savior of their country.

It's relative. A lot of people think George Bush is a good man. A lot of people also think he's the devil incarnate.

That's what I meant when I said everyone was someone's sibling, parent, child, etc. All of the dead deserve basic respect; no desecration, no violation, and so on.

Well, seeing as how nothing is constant (not even those so-called "constants"), it seems we can't say what is good or evil. Consider this: I was standing on a mountain earlier this year, but I'm not standing on it anymore. My geological position earlier was higher than it is now relative to myself. That being said, it is clear that I have changed altitudes, as it's clear that there are shiftings of values in societies. That does not mean that a society was never directly at point A or point B, what is confused are the nuances with which we argue. If this is true, with what reason do you say that we should respect all the dead beyond a hygenic concern?

Let me reiterate: I'll decide who deserves my respect, as will everybody else for themselves. I also won't be opposed to efficient cremation or desecration of the dead beyond a hygenic concern.

[Ozero]

"At moment when one is contemplating suicide, suddenly, one will regret it dreadfully"

ive heard that. Take it from me, that's pure BS. As for screaming jumpers... loo, instinct is gonna wake up right about then and freak out, odds are. It doesn't men that if superman rescued them, that they wouldn't just do looking for another method.

As long as I'm playing cynic.... to the bloke who suggested the movie "It's a Wonderful life"... egads.. that movie makes me want to kill EVERYBODY.

But.. i did have a similar experience. When I was put in the hospital for half a year by our good buddy henry ford, I found out the benefit of being the nice guy all my life... the outpouring of people that came was amazing... i even got a phonecall from germany.. an exhange student I knew, who i hadn't heard form in ages... that was the day after the accident... news travels fast...

that said, reaction might have been different if that had been a suicide attempt... so um.. don't try that at home kids.

[CrazyAce86]

Let me reiterate: I'll decide who deserves my respect, as will everybody else for themselves. I also won't be opposed to efficient cremation or desecration of the dead beyond a hygenic concern.

That's fine and I get that. I was just clarifying what I meant; I should have explained it better the first time.

I don't have a problem with cremation. In fact, I quite like it, and would do it myself except for that I also want to be buried next my grandfather. A conflict of interests, unfortunately.

By desecration, I meant unnecessary ill treatment. Organ donation, cremation, being exhumed, that's all necessary or wanted by the deceased. Even giving the body to science, if that's what the person wanted.

Sorry if I upset/angered you.

[Sock Full of Boiled Dimes]

Suicides are people who have giving up opening that last packet of Doritos.

[Jon885]

Well, seeing as how nothing is constant (not even those so-called "constants"),

I didn't know that.

[aseriana]

Whatever reason people do it, it's highly disturbing, and in no way as easy as swallowing a bottle of pills. That will most likely end up with you in the emergency room with a pumped stomach and a lot of explaining to do when you wake up.

This happened to me.

Honestly, I know that there are people who 'try' to commit suicide because they want attention. But a lot of the posts on this thread have really disgusted me. Disgusted me because so many people seem to think it's "funny" and because the popular culture today has made the issue seem less serious.

I won't go into extreme details of my reasons, but I had been cripplingly ill for several years. There's a point when the amount of pain (mental, emotional, etc) one person has, exceeds their ability to cope with it. Just because you don't understand why someone may want to commit suicide- doesn't mean you are justified in mocking or critisizing them for wanting to commit suicide.

In the end, suicide is an ultimately selfish thing. After what I went through, I realized how much pain the attempt alone had brought to the people who cared about me. I feel unbelievably ashamed that I would put the people I loved through that. At the time it seemed like my existance was a burden, I thought it would relieve the pain of those around me if I didn't exist. I think a lot of people feel like they will be doing others a favor by removing themselves from this world. They feel like a burden because perhaps they are always depressed, or angry, or sick, (you get the picture).

[Myrsilus]

... I felt like that when I thought of taking the knife to my wrists. I felt like I'd be doing my mother a favor if I just vanished out of her life. This was all during a very hard, very confusing part of my life and it was getting to be too much.

Anyway, I never did it... I did not want to die yet, and I also figured out that the pain I felt would eventually subside somehow, or I'd just grow to deal with it more effectively. I also realized killing myself would most definitely hurt my family, mostly my mother.

Anyway, when people talk about suicide like you are describing I just let it go and move on. At this point in my life, when I think about what I went through, I don't see why I should fret over those types of things. I'm not proud at all about my thoughts of suicide, but I am proud of the fact that I gained the will to live on.

And really, a lot of posts in this certain thread didn't strike me as rude. Some uneducated statements, but nothing so bad.

[Kanzetsu]

What I beleive causes people to develope the inability (or never develope it) to cope with duress, is what I like to call the "Comfort Zone".
I really want to type alot here, but right now I can't be bothered lol, I dont understand suicide in a personal way, but I beleive the Comfort Zone is what causes people to no develope the ability to cope with it.
In that modern society is rather easy to live in, in terms of getting financial support, discrimination etc...
Past generations never had mass teen suicide problems, due to the fact kids grew up experiencing the real world and the duress involved on a higher average than todays kids.
These days kids have it way too easy, they coast along, and when something horrible hits them in the face, liek a bunch of friends denouncing them as a friend or (even some really stupid things) such, they just dont know how to deal with it.

That's a simplistic view of it, as I said I was going to type alot but I dont think it'll be read in such an old thread ;P lol

I've always found it shameful and embarrassing to cry unless I am physically hurt, then it is tears where you don't make a sound or breathe irregularly.

I dunno, it might be due to my environment while growing up, but I just dont cry about sad things usually, as a matter of fact, i'm more likely to cry if i'm happy, and well I dont think i've ever cried completely uncontrollably where i'm yelling and such, is that true crying? =\

[CNagy]

Psychologically speaking, suicide is exactly what aseriana proclaimed: the result of having more physical and emotional pain than you have the coping resources to deal with. Some people are more easily affected than others, and what may drive one person to the point of suicide could be regarded as something that one is able to cope with to another person.

Having attempted it once at a very early age, I don't see a situation in all the world that would induce me to try again. There is something about looking back at what would cause myself as a gradeschooler to try and end my life, and looking at the long scar down my forearm, to put alot of perspective on just how much I should trust any feeling that amounts to "this is too painful to deal with." I was wrong then, and I'd be wrong if I ever tried again, too.

To say suicide is selfish, though, is to proclaim a truth but forego digging down to its meaning. Selfishness does not make suicide a bad act--the situation that places a person in the mindset to commit suicide is one that is, in fact, soley centered on their problems and their feelings. In the end, we are all beings of Self, and when we make the decision to end our Self out of pain and misery, we do it alone. Of course it is selfish. It is meant to be selfish; it is an act that one uses to end their own pain-- if thoughts of how sad their family and friends will be stays their hand, then they were on the edge and not quite at that point. Suicide, after all, is the point of no return.

The reason it is trivialized a bit these days is because of what I like to call "accidental suicides." Take your average angsty teen, give him or her a bottle of pills, or a razor, a pen, and a pad of paper. A cry for attention becomes an accidental suicide when they actually manage to pull the job off. As PLF stated, pills are not the blissful way to eternity; not unless you are absolutely sure no one is going to find you in the near future, otherwise you get a stomach pump and potentially charges. At least in the US, suicide is an act that gets punished when you fail to pull it off correctly.