A very disturbing document.

[Y.T.]

[Not for those faint of heart. Not for Americans. Especially not suitable
for people who live in California. It's quite long. And, insane in a very specific manner]
War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century (http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-8-8/31055.html)

This article is a bit of propaganda. More scary than
say Mein Kampf, or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion .
If it is authentic, and reflects the thinking of
some members of the Chinese Politburo... we should
just hope that that mindset is not very prevalent there.
I'm not sure what aim it has, or
whether it's an elaborate very sick joke...
Still , it made me feel sick. And that is
quite an accomplishment, considering that
I like blood and gore, and am not perturbed by
any number of dead infants.
(they have no.. value. Only potential. I think the death of
someone who is ten-twenty is far worse)

Added on 16.7 15:55 GMT +1 : ----------------------------------

The Epoch Times has a pro Falun Gong bias.
That is not OK in my eyes, because, I am quite against
any cults or religions. New, budding religions are the worst kind,
be they CCP (Communist Parties are modeled on religious institutions),
or Falun Gong. So, I suppose a crazy cultist would find enough
time to write up such a piece of propaganda.
On the other hand, demonizing CCP is preaching to the converted.
It's a party, that is concerned with staying in power.
By any means neccessary, and, it can't really get any
worse than that.

[Ardo Zubairu]

oh zakalwe

[Quartermaster]

Ha ha, race war.

[setrict]

Just a few choice quotes, since I doubt most will actually read the transcript of a speech thought to be given by Mr. Chi Haotian, Minster of Defense of China.

Therefore, we will not hesitate to fight a Third World War, so as to lead the people to go out and to ensure the Party’s leadership position. In any event, we, the CCP, will never step down from the stage of history! We’d rather have the whole world, or even the entire globe, share life and death with us than step down from the stage of history!!! Isn’t there a ‘nuclear bondage’ theory? It means that since nuclear weapons have bound the security of the entire world, all will die together if death is inevitable. In my view, there is another kind of bondage, and that is, the fate our Party is tied up with that of the whole world. If we, the CCP, are finished, China will be finished, and the world will be finished.


Only by using non-destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves. There has been rapid development of modern biological technology, and new bio weapons have been invented one after another. Of course we have not been idle; in the past years we have seized the opportunity to master weapons of this kind.


The population, even if more than half dies, can be reproduced. But if the Party falls, everything is gone, and forever gone!

[MFDub]

That is a disturbing and frightening document. I would like to find a way to authenticize it, however.

[Y.T.]

I am somewhat at a loss when it comes to Chinese. There are some
around here, mainly selling crappy or fake goods, and running
restaurants. Are there any people who have first hand knowledge
of the CCP or are Chinese? Or is it just an elaborate
piece of Taiwanese propaganda. Also, there should be a
Chinese version of the speech in Epoch Times. Is it the
same? Has anyone encountered such musings before?

[General_Admission]

ROFL!

Who's going to believe that crap? It only takes a second to realize the guy is full of bull. Maybe kids with inferiority complexes who are mad at the world & need something to 'belong' too to feel powerful & good about themselves, but not rational people.

How can they take over the world? I mean, it's freakn' China. They kill their own people as it is under its autocratic socialist system.

hmmm...lets see.

China vs. World = China die

It would be a shame to have to bomb 1.3 billion people back to the stone age.

[Quartermaster]

Thanks setrict, did anybody catch this?

Therefore, we will not hesitate to fight a Third World War, so as to lead the people to go out and to ensure the Party’s leadership position. In any event, we, the CCP, will never step down from the stage of history! We’d rather have the whole world, or even the entire globe, share life and death with us than step down from the stage of history!!! Isn’t there a ‘nuclear bondage’ theory? It means that since nuclear weapons have bound the security of the entire world, all will die together if death is inevitable. In my view, there is another kind of bondage, and that is, the fate our Party is tied up with that of the whole world. If we, the CCP, are finished, China will be finished, and the world will be finished.

Comrade Xiaoping replied in a polite manner: “Go tell your government, China and the United States do not have such a relationship that is interdependent and mutually reliant.”

[Y.T.]

Well.. the Chinese have a lot of good scientists. And, biological
weapons are nasty. Would the PLA do such thing?
(I never heard about them being 'soft', playing nice or so?)

t would be a shame to have to bomb 1.3 billion people back to the stone age.

I am afraid, that if after an exchange of thermonuclear weapons ..
the world is not going to be the same again.
Let's hope they keep the guy sedated.
(Provided, it's not a joke).

Chinese probably know more about the CCP than we do...

Another tasty excerpt:
We also must never forget what Comrade Xiaoping emphasized “refrain from revealing the ambitions and put others off the track.” The hidden message is: we must put up with America; we must conceal our ultimate goals, hide our capabilities and await the opportunity. In this way, our mind is clear. Why have we not updated our national anthem with something peaceful? Why did we not change the anthem’s theme of war? Instead, when revising the Constitution this time, for the first time we clearly specified “March of the Volunteers” is our national anthem. Thus we will understand why we constantly talk loudly about the “Taiwan issue” but not the “American issue.” We all know the principle of “doing one thing under the cover of another.” If ordinary people can only see the small island of Taiwan in their eyes, then you as the elite of our country should be able to see the whole picture of our cause. Over these years, according to Comrade Xiaoping’s arrangement, a large piece of our territory in the North has been given up to Russia; do you really think our Party Central Committee is a fool?

[General_Admission]

^ That's why those who can flee to Canada do. :D

It's sad what that guy is saying. We are secretly rising in power yet I broadcast it on the interent for all to read in some sketchy and sad document. Like the US gov. doesn't know what China is doing at all times.

Also, about China rising. Don't they know that they are gaining strength because of Western companies. Heck Wall-Mart will conquer China before China can conquer anything. :p

[Y.T.]

Actually, I believe, Chinese banks own a lot of US T-Bills....
I should look up how many.

[General_Admission]

From: http://www.johnmauldin.com/
note: He is very “bearish” on stock and his pessimism has to be taken with a grain of salt. However, he almost always has something interesting and informative to write about.

Those Clever Chinese
by John Mauldin
July 22, 2005


Those Clever Chinese
Paris, London and Ouzilly

Last week I said that for this week's letter we would look at the US trade deficit and China, and in particular the possible revaluation of the currency and its effect upon the trade deficit. China obliged by revaluing the yuan (Renminbi). This is both more, and less, than it seems. There is a lot to cover, so let's jump right in.

Let's first look at what China did. They allowed the yuan to rise by 2%, with a daily 0.3% trading band based on the price of the previous day. While in theory this could allow for a significant price increase over a period of several months, in practice it is unlikely to do so. Allowing the yuan to rise too rapidly would be highly destabilizing to the Chinese economy. You can take it to the bank, even an undercapitalized Chinese one, that the Chinese government will do everything in its power to maintain stability.

Further, instead of pegging the yuan to the dollar, it is now going to be pegged to a basket of currencies. Because it is a basket reference rate, it will be possible for the yuan to both rise and fall against the dollar. Can you imagine the consternation of Congress if the dollar rises against the yuan? Let's look at how that could happen.

"The basket is likely to be heavily dominated by the USD. Using China's trade weights, normalized, a five currency basket would have the following weights: USD (27%), JPY [Japan](31%), HKD (Hong Kong] (24%), EUR (15%), and GBP [Great Britain](4%). The hard dollar pegs (USD and HKD) account for close to 50% of the basket. If you consider the JPY as a soft USD peg, the weight on the dollar could be as high as 80%. This means USD/RMB will still be very 'docile', with the index being 'sticky' relative to the USD." (Morgan Stanley)

In essence, only 20% of the potential basket proposed by Morgan Stanley would actually float in any real sense. If the euro and the British pound were to sell off against the dollar it would cause the value of the basket to fall relative to the dollar, and thus would have the effect of lowering the price of the yuan. This could be a real scenario, as the euro and the whole union are now in a great deal of uncertainty, not to mention really slow growth. The markets hate both.

And if the Chinese add in some local currencies like the Singaporean and Malaysian, which are managed against the dollar, it could be even more stable. Let's see what the ever astute George Friedman of Stratfor has to say about the Chinese situation"

"Chinese currency reserves stand now at some $711 billion -- more than $100 billion of which was added just this year. Beijing has been printing currency non-stop to balance this capital inflow, maintain the peg and prevent inflation. The increased political pressure on the government has only added to the inflow of speculative capital. Over the past year, the government has taken several steps to increase the outflow of capital, albeit in a controlled manner. It has raised limits on the amount of money students and tourists can take abroad, encouraged Chinese firms to invest overseas and is now loosening restrictions on the conversion and repatriation of money for foreign companies operating in China.

"But Beijing is constantly looking to the past in moving forward. It fears a repeat of the Mexican peso crisis or the Asian economic crisis. The Chinese economic reforms are at a critical stage: Unemployment is rising, both in official numbers and in unofficial estimates. Despite a 9.5 percent growth rate, China just cannot create enough new jobs for its growing population -- particularly as it modernizes the agriculture sector and faces continued challenges to its labor-intensive exports.

"Beijing has made many feints at changing the yuan peg -- most recently in early May, when an article in the online version of the official People's Daily stated a yuan revaluation was coming within a week. The article was later pulled and a retraction issued, saying the piece had been a mis-translation of a different article, but the idea was clearly floated -- and Beijing carefully monitored the international reaction. Thursday's 2 percent revaluation and the announcement that there may be more baby steps coming amount to just one more probe into the potential impact of a larger revaluation or a future move to a real float.

"For now, Beijing is moving cautiously. Thursday's announcement caught many off-guard, particularly as just a few days before, after a meeting of the PBoC heads and the heads of regional branches, the bank announced it would keep the yuan rate "basically stable" for the second half of the year -- a euphemism for no change in the currency rate. Thus far, reaction to the news has been somewhat muddled by a second wave of attacks in London. However, shortly after the Chinese announcement, Malaysia said it might modify its peg, and in trading, the yen and the won moved with the yuan change.

"This will not be the last adjustment by the PBoC, and its future alterations will be driven by politics as much as economics -- but always with an eye toward internal Chinese stability."

Those Clever Chinese

Right now we don't know what the basket will actually look like. It is doubtful that China will announce the make-up of the basket. Clever currency traders will soon be running a regression analysis that will give us a reasonable idea. Of course, it will be very risky to trade on that, because the Chinese could change the makeup of the basket at any time. My bet is they will do so from time to time just to cause a lot of pain to hedge funds so as to discourage speculation.

What those clever Chinese have really done is take some of the wind out of the sails of the protectionist camp. This new currency regime is essentially the same as that of Singapore. You don't see anyone in the protectionist camp ranting about the unfair currency manipulation of Singapore. The Chinese will be able to, quite correctly, point out that if we have no problems with Singapore then we should therefore have no problems with them.

In practice, what I think the Chinese will do is to slowly allow the yuan to appreciate. By slowly, I mean 2-3-4-5 years and by 5-10-15%. This is going to be like watching paint dry. It will not be the stuff that great speculations are made of. And since local Asian currencies are really pegging themselves to the Chinese yuan, it will mean slower appreciation in most of those currencies as well.

Think about it from the Chinese viewpoint. Using round numbers, say we buy $100 billion of a variety of widgets from the Chinese. If they were to allow the yuan to appreciate by 20% in one year that would mean we could still spend $100 billion, but we would only get 80% as many widgets as we did the year before. Or we could spend $125 billion to maintain our supply of widgets, but that would mean a greater trade deficit. And it would also mean that the American consumer would have to find another $25 billion from somewhere.

Of course, in reality it does not work that way. China is starting to have a huge excess capacity problem in many areas. In the real world, Walmart says I want you to give me the same number of widgets per dollar or I go somewhere else. This could mean your competitor in the next province or in another country. This would mean that the profit margin of many Chinese companies get squeezed as they try to maintain market share to get cash flow to service loans and pay employees, when profit margins are already quite low. You can only squeeze so much.

I met veteran China hand, Simon Hunt, last April in London (of Simon Hunt Strategic Services). He spends a great deal of time touring China and meeting with both business and government leaders. He is "wired." I pay attention when he talks about China. He sends this note:

"The issue of surplus capacity has become very worrying for policy makers in Beijing also, because there is no pricing power and, therefore, there will be an impact on the financial sector. Every company will need a piece of the same pie. Prices will fall even more. Companies will need more loans to survive and so on. The deflation story, so frightening to Greenspan, will grow into a live problem in China. Even with rising demand, prices continue to fall because of this chronic surplus capacity. There is a risk of a large knock-on impact on the financial sector, less on the big banks, but more focused on the local and regional banks and money co-operatives, of which there are about 120 of the former and 30,000 of the latter category.

"Let me illustrate this central government concern with a simple story. About a year ago, I had dinner with a top policy advisor. We chatted at length on this subject, because it had been a concern of mine for two or three years. My friend listened, but made no comment so I got the distinct impression that the subject was not on their horizon. A month ago I again had dinner with him. Before the drinks arrived, he told me than unless China's bubble of surplus manufacturing capacity was pricked China would have a recession. So, clearly, the issue is now very much on their minds.

"Two days later I was in Ningbo with an industrial friend, who is well respected in the local government and banking circles. Only a few days prior to my arrival, the governor called in the leading local industrialists and told them the following:

1. Businesses that only focus on creating capacity without regard to profitability will not receive local government support

2. The new focus must be on return on capital investment

3. Businesses must go up the value added scale. This means introducing new technology, more expenditure on R&D, taking out more patents etc., and

4. You are encouraged to go further inland if you want to expand. Funding for expansion in Ningbo is now very tight and land licenses difficult and expensive to obtain.

"The last point is very important. It is the cornerstone of new government policy, which will be seen when the new 5-Year Plan is brought out either late this year or early in 2006.

"Urbanization of coastal cities will be slowed sharply. Costs have become too expensive and how to manage the migration of workers is a difficult issue. Instead, new development of industry will be encouraged to go into the rural sectors, where transport systems have improved, where land costs are a fraction of that in the coastal cities and where wages are one-third or less."

So the upshot is that we are going to see more factories in areas where labor costs are even less. Right now, per capita income is China is about 3% of that in the US. It is much higher in the cities but less in the countryside, where development is going to go.

So the Chinese revalue their currency by 2% and over the fullness of time by another 8% or so. In terms of the cost of labor to their competitiveness, that is meaningless. You could give every worker in China a 20% raise and it would have a much smaller pricing effect on finished products.

Simon illustrates what he means by capacity glut. The Chinese keep building factories and production lines even when they clearly don't need any more. Every town and province wants its own widget factory, and the state banks fund them. He cites many factories which are expanding capacity even though their markets have a serious surplus of capacity.

In an area he knows well, Simon points out that if the plans or "silly practices" (his term) in one industry are carried through, China will have the capacity to supply the entire world with the tubing required for air conditioners. Chinese firms are selling tubing anywhere from 35-70% less than competing companies in Europe and Asia, and at below the real costs of their competitors, and maybe below their real costs.

So, is the whole world all going to be buying Chinese goods? Should we just pack it all in? In a word, no. "Moreover, China is no longer being considered the first choice for new investment by manufacturing companies in Taiwan or S Korea; the first choice is now being given to other countries in Asia, such as India, Vietnam and now Malaysia....For instance, only on Friday, Flextronics, the world's leading contract electronics maker, announced that it would expand its Malaysian manufacturing facilities to counter rising costs in China. Peter Tan, the company's Asian President, said 'Its pretty clear that in China there is only one way that costs will go, and that is up, given the fact that China is so dependent on the rest of the world for its energy needs...There are a lot of odds being stacked up against our existing presence in China'."

The Chinese are up against the proverbial wall. Their problems are not without precedent and will require some pain to solve, but they can be solved. But they do not need some shock, such as a too rapid currency revaluation, to upset what is already a delicate equilibrium.

Over time, the dollar will fall, and perhaps significantly, against the yuan. But it will be, as Paul McCulley is wont to say, in the fullness of time.

The entire world needs to re-balance. Perhaps it is that we are always in the act of re-balancing, but today the lack of balance seems pronounced. The US trade deficit is growing. China is building too much capacity. Politicians have promised benefits to the boomer generations in the US, Europe and Japan that the next generation cannot hope to be able to financially deliver, and therefore they will not. There will be adjustments (a rebalancing) to the promises. Globalization is stressing the labor markets of the world. Governments everywhere overspend and mostly over-tax.

All of this high wire rebalancing act will take place in the fullness of time. There are those who think the dollar is going to break under the weight of the trade deficit. It could happen any moment. Then again, I would suggest the trade deficit could go on a lot longer and get a lot worse before the new world balance comes about.

Today the trade deficit is running close to $700 billion. The US is exporting electronic dollars and the rest of the world gives us their widgets. Then they take those dollars and buy our debt, helping keep our interest rates low. As I have documented in previous letters, foreigners are taking an increasing percentage of the new US debt supply, as our government debt is going down faster than projected. (I should note that this is because tax receipts are up and not because of congress holding down spending.)

At some point we are told, foreigners will get tired to buying US assets. And I agree, that is true. But it could be a lot longer than most of those with a bearish mindset think. We have $44 trillion (or so) in assets in the US. This total asset base grows every year by several times more than the trade deficit. So while the trade deficit as a percentage of GDP is staggeringly high, as a percentage of assets it is modest.

This game will go on as long as Asia decides to take our dollars. It is pretty much that simple. There are simply too many dollars and yen and yuan and baht and pesos and euro, and too few opportunities. That money has to find a home. And, for better or worse, the current home of choice is the US.

So, going back to a previous point, China needs stability while it works through some very serious problems. That means they need the US consumer to continue to buy products so they can provide jobs and slowly build their own consumer society and their won opportunities. To be able to take advantage of their internal opportunities they need sophisticated capital markets and banking institutions. They are years away from that. To have a consumer society, that means they have to increase the incomes and find jobs for hundreds of millions of people. To get sophisticated financial institutions, you have to train a generation of managers. It takes time. You don't do that by getting off the treadmill they are on.

The same goes for Korea, Thailand and the rest of developing Asia. We saw Malaysia drop its dollar peg within 24 hours of China. They, too, will have a basket. Eventually, I believe most, if not all, of Asia (including Australia and New Zealand) will create their own de facto currency basket and probably a currency unit of some kind based on that basket, as well as a free trade market. But that is eventually.

In the meantime, and until time's fullness, things will go on as they are because the governments of Asia, by and large, cannot afford to do anything else. What government is going to deliberately slow down growth in their country when it would mean so much personal short term loss? By personal loss, I am not referring to the citizens of the respective countries, though there would certainly be that. I am referring to the loss of the positions held by the politicians. Politicians hate losing power. It is a universal truth that they will avoid causing problems for which they can be blamed, if they can help it.

The hope of each of these governments and central banks is that if they go slowly enough their own country will build its own consumer engine and they can wean themselves off their dependency upon the US consumer who pays in electronic dollars. They hope to grow their own economies to the point that investment dollars stay in their own country rather than looking for safety and growth in the US.

In the meantime, and in a deflationary world, those dollars are not yet bad things. They can buy real stuff like bonds and GE and Microsoft.

Think about this. Last year Steve Jobs and Apple were responsible for $1 billion or so of our US trade deficit. Yet he grew the net assets in the country by $20 billion. Will that value hold in a recession? No, but is Apple a valuable franchise that will be around for a long time? Yes. And at some price below today's price, I would be a buyer of Apple.

Or mortgage backed bonds. Or oil companies. Or real estate. Foreigners take those dollars because not only does it keep their economy going, but they can buy something that is generally acknowledged as being of some value with them. And at $44 trillion and growing, there is a lot of stuff they can buy.

I think it was Business Week where an article in 1955 first decried the profligate American consumer. Each decade it gets worse. Consumer debt is now higher than ever, especially in terms of percentage of disposable income.

Is this a sustainable trend? Of course not, but it can go on longer than we think. As a national policy should it? No, as one day when it reverses it will cause us some very decided economic grief. But no individual thinks of national policy when he borrows more money. He thinks of cash flow and whether he can afford the payments for pleasure today.

In short, the move to revalue by the Chinese changed nothing, except maybe takes off some protectionist pressure. Good trade for them. Clever the way they did it. But since they have decided that "to get rich is glorious" and started down the yellow brick road of capitalism, they have been fairly clever at most points.

And it does start the process. So that is something. It was Mao who said the journey of a thousand miles starts with a step. This was a small one, but it was a step.

And I leave you with one final staggering statistic and thoughts from Hunt:

"Thus, China's economic future will be based on two foundations. The first will be to increase the share of consumption as a percentage of GDP, hence the focus of policy on the rural sector. The second will be to accelerate the growth of the private sector, which means, also, to encourage banks to lend more to this sector. As an integral part of this program, government intends to privatize as many as 170,000 state companies, at prices, which could be as much as 20% below book value.

"Despite the negative undertone of the issues I have raised today, I am encouraged by the growing willingness of China's leaders to discuss these very issues openly and the healthy variety of opinions one can find amongst government advisors. They will see China through this transition period to a market economy.

"Future growth, which will probably average around 7-8% a year over the next ten years, will be a much better mix between activity, education, social welfare, and the environment with the rural sector being the cornerstone. China is going through interesting times, but that is nothing new, not least in the last 25 years, but more especially throughout its long history."

Think about that. 170,000 companies privatized at below book value and unleashed to compete. My bet will be that most will fail. But then 80% of companies that are started in the US fail within 5 years. Failure is the sign of a healthy competitive process, for the 20% that make it drive an economy.

How do you get rid of excess capacity? Most of it is in government companies. So you privatize them and let them sink or swim. Slowly. Carefully.

The world will rebalance. It will be a bumpy ride, but we will get there. I am more convinced than ever that Muddle Through is going to be the order of the decade.

Paris, London and Ouzilly

This Sunday afternoon I leave with seven kids and a daughter-in-law for Paris for a few days, then down to friend Bill Bonner's chateau in Ouzilly (and Elizabeth and their six kids and even more relatives) for four days and then off to London. Off course, kid is a relative term in my family, as six are over 20 and the other two are 16 and 11. Bill's family is in that range as well. It should be a really fun time. I see a huge Texas BBQ in Bill's back yard.

I am personally looking forward to London, as I have been there many times but have never done the tourist thing. I will take a few meetings, but on the whole this is actually vacation, and I need it. This should be one the family remembers for a long, long time.

There will be a guest essay next week, and then if jet lag has not gotten to me, I will return to write the next weekend.

As many of you know, I have an office physically in the Ballpark in Arlington. Tonight, the Texas Rangers are playing the Oakland A's. Writing a letter during a game can be a bit of a distraction, especially a high scoring game as there is a lot of fan noise. Pitching contests tend to be quieter and I can get more done. Looking out the window, it looks like my Rangers are going to lose again. It is 8-6 in the 8th inning. Oops, make that 9-6. I don't think I am going to have to plan for play-off parties in October. As I do a final read, it is now 11-8. They are throwing batting practice. Rats, it ends 11-10 with the runner thrown out at home. We wuz robbed.

Enjoy your summer. I see museums, some great books and lots of family and friends in my near future, and maybe a few bottles of wine. And Bill has this wicked local moonshine. It will cure what ails you. Can it get any better?

Your on the road again analyst,

[tekkan]

I dunno....this article just dosn't seem right.

Though I will be the first one to admit, China probably has ambitions...but this. Espcially announcing it publicly.


Also, why hasn't this appeared on other news sites?

Surely if a CCP member said such things, other news sites would have picked it up rather quickly. Esp when it makes references of using Bio Weapons on America.

I for one call Shananigans on this one.

[KujiInRetsu]

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. :eek:

I don't believe it. They can't be stupid enough to challenge the United States military. At this point, recruitment may be down, but the first blow the Chinese Communist party throws will send people scattering towards recruitment stations, eager to be the first one to down a Chinaman.

This does not bode well for ME. I'M A FUCKING CHINAMAN!!! WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO IF THEY GO TO WAR!? Not only am I going to be shot at by Chinese distinguishing me by Western garb, but I'm gonna be shot at and interrogated by Americans who can't tell the physical difference between a Chinese and a Chinese-American, WHICH THERE IS NONE!!!

... Aw, fuck.

No, but seriously. If the Chinese are actually serious about going to war with the United States, recruitment in the U.S. military will swell to never before seen proportions, and the likely draft that follows will swell the ranks even further. Couple that with the fact that U.S. military technology is nearly unmatched in the world today and that China doesn't have any decent transport planes that can evade U.S. Air Force jets over the entire expanse of the Pacific Ocean, I don't think that the war, if it happens, could ever get past the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Unless if they decide to use NBC warfare. We're pretty fucked, then, because that NMD Shield won't hit for shit unless it's a scripted scenario, and even then it has its misses.

Let's hope that China never moves to attack in this adminstration's lifespan, because this administration is hopelessly inept at diplomacy. Hopelessly.

And I can't believe they actually used references to Hitler's works as credible sources-- this automatically puts them down on my list of people to shoot.

It's likely that this article is false, but nonetheless, I have just soiled myself.

[Kusoyaro]

General_Admission, dude. CHina, in as little as 50 years, will completly dominate US economy, which is why the US is doing so much to revive its own and impede the eforts of teh Chinese and the Indian governments. Trust me on this one, if China ever decides to conquer the world, the US will not be impossible for them to conquer. China is very safe in terms of nuclear strategies: There are very few locations that could severly cripple it, whereas US has several. Also, since the US Military is significantly less than the Chinese, it is eay for the land-based fights to go in favor of the Chinese.
Another article that backs this up:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/24/willy.column/index.html

[Sedated]

The author of this "speech" annoys me by using movies as an example too much. Also, I don't think anyone should underestimate the Chinese, but most definitely do not underestimate the US military either. Nobody on this message board knows what kinds of things the government and military is capable of. The last big show of technology and force (the dropping of the atomic bombs) was 60 years ago. I don't doubt that the technology and strength has grown exponentially since then. It'd be pretty foolish to have the real abilities of our government be common knowledge. Likewise the same can be said of the Chinese and probably several over governments. Truth of the matter as that we will simply not know unless something big occurs. With every government, what the citizens know is probably a mere tip of the iceberg of what really lies beneath.

[Y.T.]

They don't want to wage conventional war.. obviously.
The guy seems to think that a sneak attack with some nasty
bioweapon (which would, if it was nasty, kill not only lost
of Americans but also many Chinese) is the best option
for depopulating the U.S. So, the Chinese can move in.
(although, if they had a lethal bio-weapon with a long
incubation period, say a month, and quite infectious, it
would spread worldwide and kill nearly everyone. Great idea!)
It's nuts. And conquering the US militarily would not do.
Americans are somewhat fat and complacent..but considering
the number of guns and Americans, it would be a very bloody
and protracted affair. They can't use nukes, because of
their destructive power. It's nuts. They would have to
develop a vaccine, and distribute it to key PLA and
CCP officials. It's a bad film scenario.

Actually, it's more likely the China ends up effectively
owning the US. If you are deeply in debt, are you not
effectively owned by the person who owns that debt?
Probably they'll just order the US President to vacate the
neccessary regions...

[General_Admission]

General_Admission, dude. CHina, in as little as 50 years, will completly dominate US economy, which is why the US is doing so much to revive its own and impede the eforts of teh Chinese and the Indian governments. Trust me on this one, if China ever decides to conquer the world, the US will not be impossible for them to conquer. China is very safe in terms of nuclear strategies: There are very few locations that could severly cripple it, whereas US has several. Also, since the US Military is significantly less than the Chinese, it is eay for the land-based fights to go in favor of the Chinese.
Another article that backs this up:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/24/willy.column/index.html

They have been saying that for th past 50 years. China does not have the logistics nor striking ability. Lets look at requirements for a super power.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

- Superior economic power, characterized by access to raw materials, volume and productivity of the domestic market, a leading position in world trade as well as global financial markets, innovation and the ability to accumulate capital.In short: yes

- A large populationyes, high level of educationNo, well-developed infrastructure and a pronounced cultural and economic ability to shape as well as absorb a variety of thingsNO!.

- Pre-eminent military abilityNo, characterized by relative invulnerabilityNo, the ability to deter or cause great damage and project military might globallyNo.

- Possessing an attractive social and value system as well as evidence of the ability to lead and impose order in a state's regional environment =No.

- Having a functioning political system capable of mobilizing resources for world political goalsNo, the potential to build alliances or establish linkages with capable partnersYes, but only to an extent.

- The existence of a political consensus on a concept of world order and the preparedness to be engaged in international forumsNo.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

China needs to learn how to deal with it's pollution problem first before their life expentancy plumits to an all time low.

If China did start taking over the world, this is what I predict would happen. This scenario assumes that as soon as China starts arming itself for war that the US will just let it slip.

1) China forms military regime & declares war.
2) Embargos are formed, all trade stops, international business stops. ie. China has nothing.
3) China trys to invade other countries to get resources (wow...old world or what?).
4) UN pounds China with superior striking ability.
5) After years UN decides to withdraw & implement a UN peace keeping force.
6) China loses all hope of ever becoming a super power in the next century...maybe 1/2 a millennium.

[General_Admission]

The author of this "speech" annoys me by using movies as an example too much. Also, I don't think anyone should underestimate the Chinese, but most definitely do not underestimate the US military either. Nobody on this message board knows what kinds of things the government and military is capable of. The last big show of technology and force (the dropping of the atomic bombs) was 60 years ago. I don't doubt that the technology and strength has grown exponentially since then. It'd be pretty foolish to have the real abilities of our government be common knowledge. Likewise the same can be said of the Chinese and probably several over governments. Truth of the matter as that we will simply not know unless something big occurs. With every government, what the citizens know is probably a mere tip of the iceberg of what really lies beneath.

I read a cool gov. magazine (yes I read them) in which they talked about the new drones they are developing for war. They are so sweet! The military is investing some $150 billion to private companies (as the US does for all military weapons) for the development. Basically they work with higly wired & armoured soldiers to protect them & go into dangerous situations for them. They even developed an acoustic sniper range finder that can find where snipers are & then have drones take them out.

[Pfalzer]

I agree gree only way china will have a productive and sucessful take over will be jointly and u know whos ths with kiddies soviet russia and maybe japanese alignment japanese will prolly follow suit very quickly...

[Sedated]

Supposing China got away with releasing a weapon such as some sort of disease... It's not likely that people wouldn't figure out what happened and a vaccine would be created. That would be more than enough time to attack China. Also, it's not likely the rest of the world would sit back and allow China to go releasing weapons like that to any country... if they will do it to America they will do it to any country. Using the argument that "americans are fat" is hogwash because quite obviously it's a stereotype and the majority of people in the country are not fat. Obviously the police and military personnel are forced to keep a level of fitness and it is they who defend our country. I'd not doubt if England and the US know what's going on in China better than the Chinese.

[Sedated]

I read a cool gov. magazine (yes I read them) in which they talked about the new drones they are developing for war. They are so sweet! The military is investing some $150 billion to private companies (as the US does for all military weapons) for the development. Basically they work with higly wired & armoured soldiers to protect them & go into dangerous situations for them. They even developed an acoustic sniper range finder that can find where snipers are & then have drones take them out.


I like to watch Mail Call sometimes on History and they demonstrated a jet the flies itself to a strike zone or to a recon point and does it's work and returns perfectly... all automated.

[General_Admission]

I like to watch Mail Call sometimes on History and they demonstrated a jet the flies itself to a strike zone or to a recon point and does it's work and returns perfectly... all automated.

You know they have drones right now flying along our souther border with Mexico. They are not lehtal, but have the ability to detect people & then notify border police to bust em. :cool:

[Iekleane]

ROFL!

Who's going to believe that crap? It only takes a second to realize the guy is full of bull. Maybe kids with inferiority complexes who are mad at the world & need something to 'belong' too to feel powerful & good about themselves, but not rational people.

How can they take over the world? I mean, it's freakn' China. They kill their own people as it is under its autocratic socialist system.

hmmm...lets see.

China vs. World = China die

It would be a shame to have to bomb 1.3 billion people back to the stone age.

If he was saying it to just one person yes but its a speech and people tend to get stupid when their in large groups of people. I beleive its called mob mentality or something along those lines.

[Sedated]

You know they have drones right now flying along our souther border with Mexico. They are not lehtal, but have the ability to detect people & then notify border police to bust em. :cool:

I read something about that too. They don't need the drones though, I can tell them where they all are ;). From what I've seen, Chinese weapons have simply been directly bought, or developed as a copy of, weapons from other countries. Their new weapons all appear very close to vehicles and weapons the major super powers had years ago. I don't see much innovation there.

[Arilou]

Innovation isn't that important though, not when you can have 10-20 times the number of weapons the other guy has.

That said, China probably won't be able to challenge the US militarily within my lifetime, at least not in a total war. (Barring the US doing something extremely stupid, like nuking their own cities or something) Absolute worst-case I could see the chinese building up enough forces to take Taiwan and keeping the US navy of their backs, but even that is worst-case.

[Praetorian]

Don't worry, everybody. The Europeans will save the day with the awesome power that is the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Just thought you'd like to know.

However, this is pretty vexing indeed. A population of 1.3billion people is not to be looked down upon.

[General_Admission]

China would be a cool place if they reformed drastically! I mean they have some of the biggest malls in the world. Right now they have this slow reform process going on to make sure they preseve their culture. I mean Chinese kids who live in the US are forced by their parents to go to Chinese school on Saturdays & then a piano recital on Sunday! Where's time for their own learning in what they are interested? All my friends I talk to tell me they hate it, but they have to go! China can reform quicker & still maintain their culture if they go about it the right away. Look at Japan. They adopted what they thought was best about the West and implemented it yet still retained their culture. :D

Why do idiot people like this guy have to ruin China's chances? :(

[Arilou]

General Admission: I think China right now is trying to find some sort of middle-ground between Japan (success!) and Russia (Failure).

What I am deathly afraid of is for the chinese economy to somehow tank. You do *not* want 1,3 billion unemployed people looking for stuff to occupy themselves with.

[Y.T.]

from exile.ru
I DREAM OF CHINQUEE

War Nerd,

I don't know if you take requests for columns but have you ever played out or considered what would happen if China did invade Taiwan?

Jamie Fullerton

Dear Mr. Fullerton,

Here is what would happen if China invaded Taiwan: "Aaaaaiiieee! Aaargrhh!!!" "Aeeiieeeee!" "ARRghhghaaaiii!" "Me so hohnee, me love you -- ahheeeeeeeee!!!" "Herrrrrp! Herrrrrp us prease!!!" "Rrrghaaaa!!!" "BO00ooom! Ka-BOOmmm!" "No tickey, no raundryyyeeeeaaaaiiieeeee!!!"


Invading Taiwan would be utter insanity. I believe it's highly urbanized, it's army is quite competent... a really bloody affair. Bloody as in WWII kind of bloody.

[Y.T.]

There are 200 000 000 Chinese fit for military service.
That's a lot.

[hahaman]

lets just hope china's nationlism doesn't go across the line and fuck them self up again. i see china china developing nicely look at what they were able to accomplish from just 30 years after it open its doors to the world. it transform from a 3rd world commie country to a economic giant and a soft military power.

[Arilou]

from exile.ru


Invading Taiwan would be utter insanity. I believe it's highly urbanized, it's army is quite competent... a really bloody affair. Bloody as in WWII kind of bloody.

That said, there's nothing that prevents the communist chinese from finishing what the Nationalists started in the 30's... Except the US navy. China has been upgrading their ampihibious assault capabilities for years now.

[tekkan]

I'd like to restate what I said earlier before I say anything else. I still doubt the validilty of that news source, unless someone can produce 2 or more sources which say the same thing.

Now for the point at hand. When it comes to war, if their intention is to wage war on America it is going to be chaos. Look what a small group of terrorists have done?

If China went to war with America there would be total chaos. A fair chunck of the American population is Chinese. What is going to happen to ones who feel loyal to china? or ones who don't? Let me quote someone by saying "Its gonna be shit in the cereal". And don't even get my started on nukes.

But China isn't going to war? Why would they do that? Right now they are at an all time econmic high. They are developing at a rapid pace. A war would only serve to stand in the way right now. And many Chinese remember WWII. Do you really think the people of China want to go into another War? There would definity be riots before that happened.

In terms of China having power over the U.S. because of U.S.'s huge debt. Umm.. no. So China gets mad one day and asks for all the money back. U.S. says no, F U. What is China going to do? Can't really do anything, except never lend them money again. This isn't like when we borrow money from the bank. There is the law to protect the bank. There is no higher power to handle things between countries. It is like having 100 adults stranded on an island. They have to govern themselves.

Now to my final point ...the point which I am most passionate about is that fact that alot of people want China to switch to the democratic system...one similar to the U.S. and Canada and other western countries. And yes..some time in the future that would be a lovely idea. But as of right now, that is the worst thing that China could do. Why? Because of the poverty. Take Russia as an example. End of World War II was communism, poor as hell. Switches to democatic government? Gets even worse. Their money becomes worthless.

What the way the Chinese government is changing right now is perfect. Slowly moving towards capitalism. This way the government still has control and has the ability to provide aid where needed, while allowing some freedoms toward corporate companies and foriegn investment. And slowly as the standard of living and level of education to the rural areas increase, a goverment similar to that of U.S. could be adopted.

That is the perfect scenerio. However, it is more than likely that the CCP wouldn't want to relinquish power. And it is more than likely that there is corruption in the government system. But lets just hope someone with an open mind gains some kind of power in the CCP and makes this happen.

[hahaman]

I'd like to restate what I said earlier before I say anything else. I still doubt the validilty of that news source, unless someone can produce 2 or more sources which say the same thing.

Now for the point at hand. When it comes to war, if their intention is to wage war on America it is going to be chaos. Look what a small group of terrorists have done?

If China went to war with America there would be total chaos. A fair chunck of the American population is Chinese. What is going to happen to ones who feel loyal to china? or ones who don't? Let me quote someone by saying "Its gonna be shit in the cereal". And don't even get my started on nukes.

But China isn't going to war? Why would they do that? Right now they are at an all time econmic high. They are developing at a rapid pace. A war would only serve to stand in the way right now. And many Chinese remember WWII. Do you really think the people of China want to go into another War? There would definity be riots before that happened.

In terms of China having power over the U.S. because of U.S.'s huge debt. Umm.. no. So China gets mad one day and asks for all the money back. U.S. says no, F U. What is China going to do? Can't really do anything, except never lend them money again. This isn't like when we borrow money from the bank. There is the law to protect the bank. There is no higher power to handle things between countries. It is like having 100 adults stranded on an island. They have to govern themselves.

Now to my final point ...the point which I am most passionate about is that fact that alot of people want China to switch to the democratic system...one similar to the U.S. and Canada and other western countries. And yes..some time in the future that would be a lovely idea. But as of right now, that is the worst thing that China could do. Why? Because of the poverty. Take Russia as an example. End of World War II was communism, poor as hell. Switches to democatic government? Gets even worse. Their money becomes worthless.

What the way the Chinese government is changing right now is perfect. Slowly moving towards capitalism. This way the government still has control and has the ability to provide aid where needed, while allowing some freedoms toward corporate companies and foriegn investment. And slowly as the standard of living and level of education to the rural areas increase, a goverment similar to that of U.S. could be adopted.

That is the perfect scenerio. However, it is more than likely that the CCP wouldn't want to relinquish power. And it is more than likely that there is corruption in the government system. But lets just hope someone with an open mind gains some kind of power in the CCP and makes this happen.

Exactly :) though i doubt the captalism that china is developing into is the kind that the US uses since i highly doubt the CCP would want to let go of their hold on china

[Arilou]

In terms of China having power over the U.S. because of U.S.'s huge debt. Umm.. no. So China gets mad one day and asks for all the money back. U.S. says no, F U. What is China going to do? Can't really do anything, except never lend them money again. This isn't like when we borrow money from the bank. There is the law to protect the bank. There is no higher power to handle things between countries. It is like having 100 adults stranded on an island. They have to govern themselves.

Except that the market has a tendency to take *very* dim views of governments that do not pay their debts. The US would have trouble getting loans should they flat-out refuse to pay. (That's not said they couldn't work something out, but at the very least the next time they'd take a loan the interest-rate would be *much* higher)

[h2orowe]

Is there proof that someone actually said this?
Is it on other sites?
If so, and if it ever happened. The U.S. and it's allies would pwn China.

If that ever happened would they try to take over Japan, since they pretty much have no military. When are they getting their military back? Isn't it soon? I read somewhere its in like 2008 or 2012 or something. I don't remember though.
If that ever happnes, I think we should give Japan back it's military. Don't they only have like a self-defense force and like a navy or something, or at least like navy weapon type stuff.

[Arilou]

If that ever happened would they try to take over Japan, since they pretty much have no military. When are they getting their military back? Isn't it soon? I read somewhere its in like 2008 or 2012 or something. I don't remember though.
If that ever happnes, I think we should give Japan back it's military. Don't they only have like a self-defense force and like a navy or something, or at least like navy weapon type stuff.

Despite the fact that Japan doesen't have an army (It's a "Self defence force") they are among the most powerful militaries on earth (certainly top-20, in all likelyhood top-10) Add to the fact that they have buddies with the World's largest navy and live on an island...

Save for nukes, the japanese have no reason to be afraid.

[setrict]

What I am deathly afraid of is for the chinese economy to somehow tank. You do *not* want 1,3 billion unemployed people looking for stuff to occupy themselves with.

No kidding. Add this to the fact that due to the gender imbalance we'd have 1.3 billion unemployed, millions of whom aren't getting laid regularly. They will come for our women :eek:

[Arilou]

No kidding. Add this to the fact that due to the gender imbalance we'd have 1.3 billion unemployed, millions of whom aren't getting laid regularly. They will come for our women :eek:

Luckily they'll come for the russians first, and there's a lot of russia in the way. I don't expect them getting here until say.... 2150.

[h2orowe]

Heh, I'd be dead by 2150. Let the Great-Grandkids take care of the war.

If it all came down to it. I think we'd nuke them first.
Today your Love! Tommorow China! The next day the world!
Yeah, the Ramones kick ass. Was that even them originally?

[sgt. pepper]

I think that China is damn capable military-wise. I read some stuff about their army and even tough they don't have über-high tech stuff (that's so expensive it's almost useless) , they still got a shitload of good stuff.

And it goes without saying that if either side retorts to nukes, then both would lose.

[Myrsilus]

Heh, I'd be dead by 2150. Let the Great-Grandkids take care of the war.

If it all came down to it. I think we'd nuke them first.
Today your Love! Tommorow China! The next day the world!
Yeah, the Ramones kick ass. Was that even them originally?
Leaving the problems for the future generations is exactly what gets the entire world into the shit it ends up in. If anything is going to change for the better, action must be made when the problem is acknowledged.

Just my little contribution... China is formidable, but not quite the military power that could take over. They do have strength in numbers, though, so with the right training it'd be one hell of an infantry division to deal with.

[Marblehead]

Leaving the problems for the future generations is exactly what gets the entire world into the shit it ends up in. If anything is going to change for the better, action must be made when the problem is acknowledged.

Just my little contribution... China is formidable, but not quite the military power that could take over. They do have strength in numbers, though, so with the right training it'd be one hell of an infantry division to deal with.

So are you saying you're in favor of a preemptive strike?

[Myrsilus]

So are you saying you're in favor of a preemptive strike?
I don't think I ever said that. What grounds would we have really? Especially not anytime soon since we're already in an exhausting war.

As much as this administration has messed up, it's not like our country is filled with nothing but idiots. I'm sure if the time comes we'll know.

That's all.

[h2orowe]

I was joking about the leave it to our kid's kid's kids.
I'd prefer world peace, but with crazy people like the one who wrote the speech, it's never going to happen.
I doubt were even going to war with China.
That document seemed like BS.

[hahaman]

this article gotta be some huge BS made by some people who wants the general public to hate china.
politicians are smart and they won't do something like this that will hurt the image of their country.
i mean comon for god and christ not even morons like the bush team would do something this stupid.

[stillbornsinger]

On the subject of Japan's self defence force... it is pretty formidable from what I can tell... I'm Stationed in Sasebo, its a US naval base that is connected to a Japanese naval base. They have some pretty heavily armed ships that are technologically on par with the US ships (CIWS, spy 3 etc..)

The US's Amphibious Group One is centered in Sasebo, with a ton of Marines down in Okinawa and the Kittie Hawk's Carrier strike group up in Yokosuka. Add in a few air force bases and other bases spread out through Japan and its pretty obvious if anyone messes with Japan the US will be involved.

North Korea makes me worry a bit more for the immidiate future, but China in the long run I think is far more dangerous.

We could never win a conventional land based war with the Chinese, so even if we were successful in keeping them out of our homeland, it would at best end in a stalemate.

Give China some time and given that their economy stays as strong as it is now, and their military will be a formidable opponent to the US forces, technologically and of course man power wise.

[deepbluevibes]

I am somewhat at a loss when it comes to Chinese. There are some
around here, mainly selling crappy or fake goods, and running
restaurants. Are there any people who have first hand knowledge
of the CCP or are Chinese? Or is it just an elaborate
piece of Taiwanese propaganda. Also, there should be a
Chinese version of the speech in Epoch Times. Is it the
same? Has anyone encountered such musings before?

My best friend is Chinese, and her family is hardcore traditional Chinese...

but they have no hatred towards white people. So not all Chinese people are bad.

[deepbluevibes]

Two things to consider.

#1: Americans are pussies. Every other country in the world would have 500 times as many people willing to kamikaze bomb us compared to us.

#2: The whole fat American remark is true; almost every other country in the world FORCES you to walk to destinations, especially the asian countries, which is why there are so few obese people there compared to America, where everyone drives.

[Y.T.]

BTW, Obesity is a growing problem worldwide.
In China also..

[deepbluevibes]

Growing, yes.

and why?

1 - american culture being integrated into their cultures, even if it's ever so slightly

and

2 - american foods/diets being introduced into their culture as well.

[Arilou]

Growing, yes.

and why?

1 - american culture being integrated into their cultures, even if it's ever so slightly

and

2 - american foods/diets being introduced into their culture as well.

Not exactly, essentially it has to dow ith the fact that (strangely enough) high-fat foods being relatively cheap. Hence, as soon as you're out of the actual "starving children" stage you'll end up being obese.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I was just in Japan a few months ago and I noticed a lot more obese teenagers than I did when I went there in 2003, 2002, and 2000. You don't see any real changes in people over thirty. There are few more people in their twenties getting fatter but mostly it's the teenagers that are getting the fattest, that I've seen.

Also, I noticed you can now get a large( our small) soda at McDonalds there. Before the biggest drink you could get was out old medium. Wendy's serves the same portions of food that they serve in the states. They also have Kua'ina burger now; they are done for.

Oh and the Japanese Army sucks. They may have good vehicles but that's about it. Their soldier's standard of living is lower than a U.S. soldiers. They have a handful of pvs-5 nightvision goggles. Their rifles are crap. Their sniper rifle is the older version of their current because (and I quote) "it's more accurate." They also have no sense of tactics. They fight like something out of an old war movie.

At least this was true about their army back in 2002.

[setrict]

but they have no hatred towards white people. So not all Chinese people are bad.

Taken individually, most people appear normal, sane, and generally friendly. Put a thousand of these people in a group and things start to change. People have a hard time dealing with large numbers, and eventually will end up deferring to a handful of the most vocal. Unfortunately most leaders are very polarized in thier personal view, which tends to polarize the actions of the group as a whole.

It only takes one bad apple to ruin a basket full if given adequate time.

The few japanese I've met have seemed very friendly and polite, same with the German people. Didn't stop them from doing some pretty awful things in WWII. We're all human, and humans have done some pretty unthinkable things from time to time. Looking back through recorded history at the things people have done to people is a little disconcerting when you consider how violent and ruthless we can become given the proper circumstances.

Edit: I think Soda is one of the primary contributing factors to American obesity, not just because of the sugar, but because we substitute it and other drinks in place of good old fashioned water. Makes the kindeys and liver work harder, making fat metabolism more difficult for the body. Of couse I say all this while sipping on a Mtn Dew (drink of the gods). :confused:

[Sedated]

Two things to consider.

#1: Americans are pussies. Every other country in the world would have 500 times as many people willing to kamikaze bomb us compared to us.

#2: The whole fat American remark is true; almost every other country in the world FORCES you to walk to destinations, especially the asian countries, which is why there are so few obese people there compared to America, where everyone drives.


That doesn't make any logical sense on many levels. If being "tough" is measured by how many ignorant people will kill themselves, then I'm glad Americans aren't "tough". Think about the countries that used those tactics. They are tactics of extreme desperation. Nazi Germany used them, Japan used them, now the Terrorists use them. They do it expressly because they've run out of options and this is the very last thing they can do.

The obesity remark is not logical either. Take the obese percentage and compare it to the actual population. I believe right now it's 16% which is high comparitively but it includes people that aren't that heavy but close to the mark. Until it exceeds 50% that remark stating that "Americans are fat" is useless. It's too high as it is, but things like that are pointless. You don't judge a group by it's minority. I don't think being overweight is good at all, and people should do their best not to get that way, but the fact that people CAN be overweight here is the point. I have a strong feeling that if certain other countries enjoyed the luxuries and abundance that the U.S. has, they would have a huge weight problem. If two kids are sitting around, one rich, one poor, and the rich kid gets fatter because he plays videogames and doesn't have to help make money for the family, it doesn't mean the poor kid wouldn't have done the exact same thing if he had been in the rich kid's position.

[Iekleane]

Two things to consider.

#1: Americans are pussies. Every other country in the world would have 500 times as many people willing to kamikaze bomb us compared to us.

#2: The whole fat American remark is true; almost every other country in the world FORCES you to walk to destinations, especially the asian countries, which is why there are so few obese people there compared to America, where everyone drives.

You'ce never been to the south have you? Let me educate you on that, allthough there are a large percentage of obese here they are mostly female and have nothing to do with the army not to mention that the south has some of the most stupid people imaginable willing to give their life for the states because its the right thing to do.

(Sorry to say that its the women that are obese but where I live thats what I've observed.)

[whispering]

Are there any people who have first hand knowledge
of the CCP or are Chinese?
According to wikipedia:

"It [Epoch Times] now has a weekly print distribution of over 1 million copies in 30 countries worldwide."

"In defence to this criticism, The Epoch Times claimed that pro-China articles need not to be reported, as they are not subject to censorship by China's state-owned media. So in a sense, Epoch Times is confesses to making one-sided, biased reviews, since it deems the other side of the coin absolutely unnecessary for its primary function, which is not to report news objectively, but to cast "Communist China" in the worst light possible."

[Y.T.]

http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002183.html

Well, those statistics are interesting....
30% are obese, and 66% are overweight.
Well, because the study also considers bodybuilders and
people with lots of muscle obese, it is not really
accurate... but I daresay the error due to
that fact is not very significant.
(or are bodybuilders that common in the US?)
Still, I wish I knew the methodology..
As to solution to overabundance.. lower the
standard of living..
(Do fat people pay the same health insurance as normal sized
individuals? If they do.. that is very serious discrimination)

Besides.. America to me is the land of the morbidly obese.
You see fat people around.. but never that *fat* in Slovakia.
(The fattest person I have seen in Bratislava was actually an
American)

[Data]

Um...

It's pretty ridiculous of you to think of America as the land of the morbidly obese.

[Sedated]

I just see mainly europeans picking obesity as an easy target for Americans, but in reality... I don't see "fat" people hardly ever. And although your first comeback will be "yeah right", I do see lots of people that have gone to gymns and are muscular. My older brother is considered overweight by the military guidelines yet has almost no fat. It's a stereotype that's the easiest thing to pick on, which is what europeans have been doing. I guess we don't really care because Americans live how they choose anyway. The biggest point is what their scale is for grading "overweight" or obesity? Are other countries even using the same guidelines? I'm really impressed that you europeans are so enthusiastic about pointing out a "fault" in America that you'd take the time to research though. Unfortunately I don't, so I haven't looked for the statistics for Slovakia or anywhere else. I don't think I've even seen a Slovakian, so I'd have no clue. I lost my subscription to Slovakia Entertainment Weekly. I still haven't seen a "What does the rest of the world think of <insert country name here>?" thread.

[General_Admission]

Here:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/stats-country.htm

I don't really see much of a difference % wise between the US & Europe. But America does have the most fat people b/c we have the most poeple.

If you visit the South you will see a lot of fat people though. I believe that the top fattest cities are in Texas.

[Sedated]

Here:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/stats-country.htm

I don't really see much of a difference % wise between the US & Europe. But America does have the most fat people b/c we have the most poeple.

If you visit the South you will see a lot of fat people though. I believe that the top fattest cities are in Texas.



Yeah with all of the stuff on TV from Texas I didn't think that was right, but friends in Texas say it is. I'm sure regionally there are some areas with fewer/more. I live in an area with 13 military installations, so there's less likely of a chance to find an overweight person since it's mostly military personnel.

[General_Admission]

^ I have lived in Texas for 7 years. I have a theory that the reason is mostly because football is big in Texas. Thus all the jocks in Texas beef up with huge strong bodies. Then they get old & all the muscle turns to fat b/c now they spend their time watching it instead of playing it.

Not to say all of Texas is fat. There are some super health consious cities in Texas. Some mayors even sponser road races & what not in which they participate. A lot of people from California are moving down to San Antonio to make huge profits on selling their homes. San Antonio is cool & all, but when I go there they are 'always' working on some road or expanding, 'always.'

Plus, there are tons of aliens who work for dirt cheap & don't care how dangerous it is. Basically they come to the US, work until their bpdy breaks, then go back to Mexico to live pretty well with all the USD they made.