Japanese Girls - Are They Really That Bad? Discuss...

[tbonicus]

Firstly:

Congratulations on completion of your migration to the darkside Azreal;
The weight of a full grown man sliding across the floor and kanchoing a small child less than half his age and size means that your training is complete...

Secondly:
Are they really that bad?

I consider myself to be a 'carrier' of the 'Yellow Fever'.
I am infected, but I do not display the symptoms in that I do not actively seek out and date Japanese women (even though I find japanses women incredibly attractive).

I am, however, thinking about making a move to the darkside like ol' AZ and changing this. Maybe a visit to Japan may not be out of the question...? :D

But everytime I hear AZ go on about the issues apparently associated with japansese girls, I remember my former self (there still is good in me...a little)
and think twice..

All with experience speak...

What is it that (allegedly) should dissuade me from dating a japansese girl?

[nice gaijin]

finding Japanese girls attractive is not enough to prepare you to have a real relationship with one, nor is it a sufficient reason to go to Japan. Knowing nothing about their culture should be a pretty good indicator that you ought not seek an intercultural relationship.

[Antinomia]

Assuming that you like Japanese girls more than the girls in your neighborhood, i have 2 questions for you, tbonicus (and many others):

1 Where are you coming from
2 why do you prefer Japanese girls above the girls living closer to you?

Don't get me wrong, i am dating a Japanese girl and we probably will end up married soon after she move over to Holland. But i asked myself this question many times, why i like this Japanese girl much more than western girls. Is it the personality? the exotic looks? Her eyes? Her ehm... kinky school uniform? Still searching for the answer ^_^

[stsparky]

Are they really that bad? ... What is it that (allegedly) should dissuade me from dating a japansese girl?

I want to assume you meant well and are not socially retarded. So. All women are the same. They can only be changed by love into caring partners.

What they are and where they come from doesn't matter. - Sparky

[RDClip]

The real question asianophiles should be asking themselves is: "Am I attractive/charming enough to be so damn picky?" If the answer is 'no', I suggest, you should get what you can. If you have a white(or other race) girl and still are obsessed with the asian ladies, download a few pics of Ichigo Milk and buy some Klenex. ;)

I used to be really turned on by asians(probably some weird Freudian Oedipus complex or something) But, now I'm surrounded by asian girls at my school and I've kinda lost that super interest. So, I am now a lover of all the sexy ladies of the world, no matter which race.

Anyway, even though Az speaks badly of Japanese girls at times, it seems that he hasn't lost all interest in them(read 'Ms. Americanized 2') So, even Az may believe that there are nice Japanese girls out there.

[Azrael]

Don't base your infatuation on looks. The stars you see in music, movies, and TV...that is a look carefully crafted by professionals. Many of them have had surgery as well. As for the magazine idols and what not, in addition to layers of makeup the images are photoshopped to all hell and back.

That is not what you see walking around on the streets everyday.

Even the girls you see on the streets who might come close to that image...that's thanks to fashion, and a pound of makeup. Take her home, and you WILL find yourself waking up to an almost entirely different person.

If you do end up with one of the Barbie Girls, you may find her unable to think about anything other than makeup and fashion (maybe high school-ish friend drama, but that's it). Be prepared for her to go to great lengths to maintain her image, which may and probably will include an hour or more of prep time anytime you want to go somewhere, and thousands of make-up products lining your bathroom sink.

If you like really girly girls...I mean, really girly girls...maybe this'll work for you. But then we haven't even taken into account the cultural differences that'll come into play as well.

My main problem with Yellow Fever is that it's based off misconceptions that for the most part aren't true.

I was going to write more (there's a lot more), but fuckit, I'm tired.

[Uska]

lol apart from the other countless things you and everyone else has written. They may be bad, but I reaaaally don't like the girls from here. Which sometimes bear striking resemblance(only not as strong) to teh way you guys describe em.

[hanacker]

Some girls are really that bad and some aren't. Like anywhere else in the world, there's a decent correlation between attractiveness and bitchiness, and city girls tend to be more shallow and selfish than country girls. So find a sweet, ugly girl from the country and be happy.

My theory is that in general, guys want to date the most attractive girls they can find. In Japan, foreign guys get gaijin cool points so they can date more attractive girls than they could in their home country. Attractive girls tend to be more bitchy than plain girls (not always of course), so foreign guys come away thinking that Japanese girls have worse personalities than girls from their own country. That doesn't explain all of it but I think that's a part of it.

[Justin Ellis]

As much as I've enjoyed reading Outpostnine almost since the beginning of the "I am a Japanese School Teacher" drama began, reading Az's older articles, I'd say he takes of rather cynical view of women in general. Of course, I haven't lived Az's life, so I'm no one to judge - but that seems worth keeping in mind.

As for myself, would I date a Japanese girl? Sure. I'm an Asian Studies major (gasp! an intellectual interest in Japan!), so I would be very interested in discovering this and that about Asian culture. I'll admit that I like anime and managa and what not, but these days I'm more interested in the real Japan - both the good and the bad.

But I digress.

[alansmithee]

I don't care what anyone says, Japanese girls are all sweetness and light and smiles. *sticks fingers in my ears and starts yelling "lalalalalalala"*

[more cheerios]

It's the same anywhere you go... Japanese girls are still girls. Some may be high maintenance, some may not be. I know a girl from Japan who moved here for college; she's my friend and she's perfectly normal.

[hanacker]

I know a girl from Japan who moved here for college; she's my friend and she's perfectly normal.

If she moved away from Japan for anything, she's not perfectly normal...

[more cheerios]

If she moved away from Japan for anything, she's not perfectly normal...
There are a LOT of Japanese students who leave Japan for university. At the University of Toronto alone, there are a massive amount of Japanese exchange students this year. It's not rare for Japanese or Taiwanese (is that correct?) students to cross overseas for University.

[tbonicus]

When someone begins a post comparing the insertion of a grown black man's fingers into the nether region of a young asian boy to the duality of a fictional force, he makes an assumption that the reader will peruse the remainder of the post with a certain tongue-in-cheek, semi-serious attitude and respond in kind.

nice gaijin
Thank you Dr. Phill.
I'm just getting out of a relationship with a Malaysian girl and just thought I'd do some 'research' about a particular stereotype before forming an incorrect opinion about two fif's of the planet's women.

Antinomia
"Assuming that you like Japanese girls more than the girls in your neighborhood.."
Who said that? I Never said that.. ;)
It's nothing like me liking japanese girls more than other girls.
I just find japanese women to be particularly attractive and was wondering if there were any facts behind what seems to be a general consensus within the forum that Japanese girls suck.

Is it worth my trouble?

I have this theory that people are attracted to whatever phenotype is not the norm in their geographical area - hence 'exotic'

(overtstate the obvious day continues...)

she still wears her kinky school uniform?

The purpose of the post is to gain insight from people in these cultures with the experience to match.


stsparky:
"All women are the same...where they come from doesn't matter"[sic]

Wrong.

People have different attitudes dependent on the culture that they're from.
For example most women on the island where I come from are usually very religious and not too keen on going camping and getting dirty.
Women where I live now don't seem to care as much but are still a little sheltered/reserved.
The European girls I've been with are another story all together.


RDClip
"Am I attractive/charming enough to be so damn picky?"
Yes. Quite. I've been told so. And I am that picky (and thorough), hence the research.. (more dry humour)
"download a few pics of Ichigo Milk and buy some Klenex" LMFAO@work!
"now I'm surrounded by asian girls at my school and I've kinda lost that super interest"
- this is sorta what happened to me after my Malaysian gf..

Azrael
I forgot about the surgery thing. An asian boy once asked my gf if she had done it on a day that her eyes looked particularly large.
Mostly I am interested (always have been always will be) in Japansese culture (started teaching myself the language and --> <-- this close to taking a Japansese class but no $$) and will probably visit Japan anyway.
And knowing me I'll probably hook up there.
It's just a question of how serious to let it get if (when) it happens..
What to expect..
"..main problem with Yellow Fever is that it's based off misconceptions that for the most part aren't true.."

Uska seems to think that Yellow Fever is based on some truth, AZ

hanacker
"In Japan, foreign guys get gaijin cool points so they can date more attractive girls than they could in their home country"
Yeah..I've been storing up gaijin cool points since the beginning of the stage...didn't use any on the big boss or anything
I've got a few to spend when I get there

This has been very informative. I shall re-evaluate the project parameters and make the proper adjustments for beauty, culture and ignorance.

[tbonicus]

AZ and I, it seems, have similar views and experiences with women.
We also both live in a foreign country.

I'm Bob Loblaw...an I value your opinion..

[NERD]

AZ and I, it seems, have similar views and experiences with women.
We also both live in a foreign country.

I'm Bob Loblaw...an I value your opinion..

Use your own joke damn it.

[tbonicus]

Kobun, lol!

It's a running gag with a few friends of mine...we try to squeeze it into every conversation possible.

You'll live.
(I personally thought the 'didn't even use any on the big boss..' was ariight

Maybe give your views on the topic if you have experience with it/views on it?

I do value your opnion.

[Uska]

Uska seems to think that Yellow Fever is based on some truth, AZ

Not entirely, I know some girls are nice. But I hate the ones from my area like 90% of em. lol I've met too few to consider a good person to even date.

[tbonicus]

I'm sure the 'good' ones even out with the 'bad' ones just like anywhere else.
I disliked intensely the girls that lived where I was growing up as well.
"Grass is Greener.."?

[hapamama]

I don't understand the concept of "yellow fever" at all, although I did have a rule about not dating Asian guys when I was in high school... mostly because most of the Asian guys at my high school were seriously lacking in social skills.

[stsparky]

stsparky: "All women are the same ... where they come from doesn't matter" [sic]Wrong. People have different attitudes dependent on the culture that they're from. ... For example most women on the island where I come from are usually very religious and not too keen on going camping and getting dirty. Women where I live now don't seem to care as much but are still a little sheltered/reserved. The European girls I've been with are another story all together. Are you a social retard? You can find a woman who'll act like her poop don't stink in any culture. You have to be smart enough not to date them. You fail to take into account as to how date-able you may appear to Japanese Women. It's a two way street. One day, you'll understand my "deeper truth" if you're lucky. Want to explain why your Malaysian lady dropped you? - Sparky

[SoulPlay]

Well i dont think he was referring to specific cases, more like, a general observation of the culture.

[Mochi Brain]

If she moved away from Japan for anything, she's not perfectly normal...There are a LOT of Japanese students who leave Japan for university. At the University of Toronto alone, there are a massive amount of Japanese exchange students this year. It's not rare for Japanese or Taiwanese (is that correct?) students to cross overseas for University.A good majority of the ones who have that desire to get out of Japan to experience education and life elsewhere are NOT normal by Japanese standards. They are the ones who do not necessarily fit in to the rigid Japanese social order and looking to escape that restrictive environment. This is the whole 'wa' influenced group solidarity, decision making by group consensus, conformity, etc which shako-jirei is derived from and permeates all aspects of Japanese culture and society; the ambiguities which tend to drive gaikokujin initially unfamiliar to these subtle cultural differences up the wall. Even the ones who weren't looking to escape end up finding themselves with a different perspective and often times find returning to Japan a painful experience with feelings not too different from kikokushijo's (returnee students whose parents were working overseas but are now returning to Japan). Many end up choosing not to re-integrate back into Japanese society and make their lives elsewhere. I'm Japanese and live outside of Japan; I would live there long term if I ran my own business or was able to work for the right company but I definitely would not want my kids going into the Japanese education system.

I don't understand the concept of "yellow fever" at allDon't want to generalize but sometimes this infatuation occurs from initially having a stereotypical view of Japan usually influenced by a heavy dose of "geinokai-ism" via jdorama's and/or from kawaii jpop singers. Some are also influenced by anime and manga. Some may travel to Japan and also see just the facade of Japan without realizing the type of dichotomies that exist below the surface. They mistake business culture expectations like politeness and friendly/efficient service as a general trait of Japanese society, they mistake the initial pleasantries by locals as friendly without realizing that shako-jirei is at the heart of that. They end up getting some unrealistic rosy picture of the country and its people by only seeing the surface glitter.

It isn't until one lives, works, and interacts with the native population that they begin experiencing the subtle ambiguities and dichotomies in Japanese culture and society. It is impossible to escape these intertwinings even in a business setting (kinryu keiretsu for example). For some gaikokujin, they do adapt and learn to accept these differences. Others generally tolerate the things they consider bad because the goods outweigh them. Others however become disillusioned and end up hating the place with a passion because it turned out to be completely different from their rose-colored expectations.

Not understanding some of this nor being able to speak some sembelance of conversational Japanese and trying to engage in a meaningful relationship is going to only end up in a deadend once the initial pleasantries are over (if it is just a short term relationship, then none of this really applies as neither party will care about those other things anyway).

[Komachi Angel]

Like all things, it depends. I think the most important thing is to separate the *image* of Japanese girls as a whole from what they actually are. Generally speaking, when people think of women or men from any specific country, they tend to generalise attributes and life-styles, etc. and it is this factor that gives them the exotic feel that people go for.

However, the reality is that there are all kinds of people from all over the world, and these things are in no way set. Naturally, if your image of Japanese women is created through movies, television, or (god forbid) anime, then you are only seeing one side of the coin. If you choose someone by image alone, naturally you are taking pot luck on what the actual person is like, and are leading yourself up for major problems.

On the other hand, I know some great Japanese girls who are not fashion whores or whatever group you choose to poke a stick at. If these are the only kinds of women you are meeting, and you don't want them, then you are looking in the wrong place.

Simply stated, don't fall in love with the image of 'Japanese women'. Once you get past that stage, you realise they are just like women from every country- some are nuts, and some are great. It's just the way it goes. The only thing that changes is the way you percieve them.

Edit: I used to date a girl who actually did the photoshop work for Ayumi Hamasaki. It took nearly a week for one poster, working straight, and having seen the original work I can tell you it ain't pretty. For gods sakes, there is an outreach forum on the internet for people that worked on her posters to vent, it's that bad. I'm not making this up.

[kitsunepixie]

Just as there are guys who come to Japan soley because they want a cute, submissive Japanese girlfriend, there are also girls who seek out foreign (mostly Western) guys because they make the ultimate fashion accessory to flaunt to their friends. When a girl like this gets bored of his constantly empty wallet or bows down to her parents' pressures to get married (to a Japanese man who will support her), he may find that she mysteriously drops off the face of the Earth, which may leave him either crushed or ready to cruise Shibuya for the next Japanese babe who comes along.

When you have two people in a relationship whose attractions are soley based on how exotic the other is, and not what kind of person he or she is, then you really can't be too surprised if it ends in hurt for both people. Now, there are also plenty of genteel foreign guys out there who like a girl for who she is, and not what she is, and the same goes for Japanese women as well. Japanese girls don't suck any more than Western guys do in this regard. ;)

[Sector]

A good majority of the ones who have that desire to get out of Japan to experience education and life elsewhere are NOT normal by Japanese standards. They are the ones who do not necessarily fit in to the rigid Japanese social order and looking to escape that restrictive environment. This is the whole 'wa' influenced group solidarity, decision making by group consensus, conformity, etc which shako-jirei is derived from and permeates all aspects of Japanese culture and society; the ambiguities which tend to drive gaikokujin initially unfamiliar to these subtle cultural differences up the wall. Even the ones who weren't looking to escape end up finding themselves with a different perspective and often times find returning to Japan a painful experience with feelings not too different from kikokushijo's (returnee students whose parents were working overseas but are now returning to Japan). Many end up choosing not to re-integrate back into Japanese society and make their lives elsewhere. I'm Japanese and live outside of Japan; I would live there long term if I ran my own business or was able to work for the right company but I definitely would not want my kids going into the Japanese education system.

Don't want to generalize but sometimes this infatuation occurs from initially having a stereotypical view of Japan usually influenced by a heavy dose of "geinokai-ism" via jdorama's and/or from kawaii jpop singers. Some are also influenced by anime and manga. Some may travel to Japan and also see just the facade of Japan without realizing the type of dichotomies that exist below the surface. They mistake business culture expectations like politeness and friendly/efficient service as a general trait of Japanese society, they mistake the initial pleasantries by locals as friendly without realizing that shako-jirei is at the heart of that. They end up getting some unrealistic rosy picture of the country and its people by only seeing the surface glitter.

Not understanding some of this nor being able to speak some sembelance of conversational Japanese and trying to engage in a meaningful relationship is going to only end up in a deadend once the initial pleasantries are over (if it is just a short term relationship, then none of this really applies as neither party will care about those other things anyway).

I agree with you completely. I can take my Japanese teacher as example. She went to the U.S. to study English for 6 years or so. She act nothing like those stereotypical Japanese that Azrael explain in his experiences. She's is just so much like Ms. Americanized that Azrael know. She just married a white guy during a summer and she told me, she doesn't want to marry someone who had experience with Asian woman because she doesn't want to marry those kreepy Japanese loving people type.

I think those people who like Anime from Japan or the music, they're just too infatuated with it and not realize the real hard cold truth about Japan and the people. In my opinion, Asians are very strict about marriage. I know it, because I've seen my cousins marrying someone who is "different" from them. Family disputes happen and even just having a relationship with one can occur problems. I think Asians always locking themself to their own people. They have their own stereotype of other race like black and hispanic people are bad. White people are slying bastards and such.

[Azrael]

I didn't mention it in the post, but Ms. Americanized 2 really dislikes Japan, and she'd leave tomorrow if she could get a job in the states. The same is true for Ms. Americanized 1.

Not every Japanese person travels abroad. Just because you see a whole gaggle of them at your university, doesn't mean that this is a standard thing for Japanese people to do. Some Japanese people will go abroad, but stick to their JTB tour guide and talk to their Japanese friends and eat at Japanese restaurants. So it's like they've left Japan for the ceremony of having gone abroad, and they've got some pretty pictures, but no idea what it's like to be in another culture.

I think a lot of Japanese people realize there are parts to the society that are harsh and uncomfortable. Like the gender/social levels, and the overworking. Most Japanese however only know this, so while they have an idea that it sucks, it's all they know. Japanese people who go abroad, and *really* experience another culture...for example, a homestay or living there for a few months/years...expand their experiences. "Hey, it doesn't have to be like this!" they realize. Then they go back to Japan but are frustrated because of the difficult aspects of Japan. Like Mochi Brain said, they either have to accept it and try to reintegrate, or suffer through it until they find a way to get out again.

On topic:
Of course not every girl here is the Gucci-bag toting vapid fashion whore. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them, more than you may be accustomed to seeing (unless you live in LA). Even if you do find a nice girl, there will stil be cultural stuff that comes into play.

[Komachi Angel]

>Of course not every girl here is the Gucci-bag toting vapid fashion whore.
>Unfortunately, there are a lot of them, more than you may be accustomed to seeing
>(unless you live in LA). Even if you do find a nice girl, there will stil be cultural stuff
>that comes into play.

Agreed. Even if you find a perfectly nice girl, there will be cultural concerns and so on that you need to take into account. Naturally all international relationships will include this to some degree or another, but Japan can tend to be a bit different, as on the whole it can appear similar to one's home country, yet still be so wildly different. Such is life, eh.

[NERD]

Kobun
Maybe give your views on the topic if you have experience with it/views on it?

I do value your opnion.

I'm an Asian American who is not particularly crazy about 'my' people. Though I've been in contact with Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and what-are-these girls, it's not like I find them more attractive than say white, black, or latin girls. Though I never had a girlfriend, the girls I've been 'intimate' with all turned out to be white.

I think it's more of a cultural thing, I'm more Americanized than anything, and given that most Asian girls I knew could barely speak English, we didn't share much of the same culture, I couldn't really find much in common with them.

What pisses me off though is people who say they like Asian girls, partially/mainly because they think Asian girls are easy. That may be true in certain cases, but it's that way of thinking that confounds me. I could elaborate on the subject, but my headache won't allow me.

[Komachi Angel]

>What pisses me off though is people who say they like Asian girls, partially/mainly
>because they think Asian girls are easy. That may be true in certain cases, but it's
>that way of thinking that confounds me. I could elaborate on the subject, but my
>headache won't allow me.

Amen m(-_-)m

[kitsunepixie]

What pisses me off though is people who say they like Asian girls, partially/mainly because they think Asian girls are easy. That may be true in certain cases, but it's that way of thinking that confounds me. I could elaborate on the subject, but my headache won't allow me.

That frustrates me to no end, too. There are also plenty of guys in Japan who believe American women are easy from what they see on TV (Sex in the City, Ally McBeal, music videos...), and are quite confused when their attempts to openly grope them in a club as they see on TV leaves them with a lovely red palm mark on their faces...

[NERD]

That frustrates me to no end, too. There are also plenty of guys in Japan who believe American women are easy from what they see on TV (Sex in the City, Ally McBeal, music videos...), and are quite confused when their attempts to openly grope them in a club as they see on TV leaves them with a lovely red palm mark on their faces...

Somehow, the image of horny Japanese men groping women and getting slapped in the face makes my heart glow and smile. And to those who tried and failed, just lead them to bars/clubs near colleges. 1 out of 2 girls would be drunk the fuck out of their mind to care.

[jindojim]

Sorry to add my two cents cuz I'm new here, but this topic is pretty interesting to me. I'm going to extend interest in Japanese girls to interest in all Asian girls. I see yellow fever as both the bane and blessing of Asians. First of all, I have noticed that the Asian girls that whites or black consider as "hot" often differ from the girls that Asians find attractive. I often hear stories from my friends about how the Asian girls that they see with non-Asians have a nice body but their face is horrible to barely decent. We guessed it was cuz most Asian guys wouldn't give these girls much attention, but since there is a 'market' for them among non-Asians with rice fever, they look for companions in that area. And since rice fever is somewhat of a sexual thing, they pass themselves off as 'easy' to play up to the non-Asians with rice fever.

Then there are the Asian women who have a taste for non-Asians, which do include some decent looking woman (to the sorrow of Asian guys). These women are seen as easy too cuz, after all, their interests can be interpreted as sexual as well (tho they may just not like Asian customs or men and want to escape from them). Basically, I agree with Kobun that Asian women are seen as easy by non-Asians.

But when it comes time for marriage or long term commitment, most of these relationships don't last. Parents' approval is pretty important to most normal Asians from my experience and most parents aren't cool with a non-Asian as their son-in-law. In fact, parents may not want their daughter to even marry outside their ethnic group (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc.) So, I don't mean to discourage people out there, but the chances that u see a pretty 'typical' Asian girl married to or even dating a non-Asian are very slim, especially one from Asia. If your thing is rice fever, it's probably better to look around the Asians in America.

Oh, and from what I know, even the atypical Japanese girls looking for "gaijin" bf won't throw themselves at you just cuz you're white. If you're a slob and/or have no degree of social intelligence, your chances are not much better outside America of picking up a girl.
Now, I don't consider myself an expert so feel free to disagree with what I've said.

[Komachi Angel]

Interesting comment.

First, what is considered attractive or beautiful amongst different countries varies quite a lot. Especially in this case, non-asians may look for asian girls that fit the more western style of beauty or style, which is different from various trends in Japan.

As for traditional girls and all that, well most of the guys I have know who are into 'Asian girls' as a whole don't even care for that kind of thing. They go for the clubbing types, etc. and before I open up a whole big can of generalisations, let me just say I am aware of the various differences and the fact that everyone is different.

However, if you are in for a traditional girl, then the best way to be with one is by being interested in traditional things, right? Learn some of the manners and so on custom to Japan and you will be a great deal more attractive. It is partially a matter of being cultured, partially a matter of being respectful of their culture, and a whole lot of things.

An interesting point though.

[raulramos3000]

I think a few of you have made some good points, while some of you are just rambling in hypotheticals, but I digress...

One thing that western folks should realize about Japanese girls, and Japanese people in general, is that often times there is a huge communication gap caused by cultural differences. Western folks are more blunt, clear-cut "yes" and "no" answers, while Japanese people are more likely to respond with "hmmm, well..." and expect you to read their minds. I'm dating a Japanese girl, and for the most part she's incredibly sweet, but if she's ever troubled or saddened by something she'll just freeze, and it's near impossible to get her to talk about it. I could definitely imagine this sort of thing driving a westerner insane.

Yes, there are a wide array of skanks, sweet girls, crazy girls in Japan just like any other place, but I do think that Japanese people across the board are more likely to bottle up their emotions than other people around the world.

[hanacker]

But when it comes time for marriage or long term commitment, most of these relationships don't last. Parents' approval is pretty important to most normal Asians from my experience and most parents aren't cool with a non-Asian as their son-in-law. In fact, parents may not want their daughter to even marry outside their ethnic group (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc.) So, I don't mean to discourage people out there, but the chances that u see a pretty 'typical' Asian girl married to or even dating a non-Asian are very slim, especially one from Asia. If your thing is rice fever, it's probably better to look around the Asians in America.

Japanese seem to be far more cool with this than Chinese or Koreans. And Chinese seem to be slightly more cool with it than Koreans. People from the poorer Asian countries will likely get over any reservations because of the fact that their child is marrying into money. But I'm no expert on the subject either, having yet to even propose to one Asian girl...

Oh, and from what I know, even the atypical Japanese girls looking for "gaijin" bf won't throw themselves at you just cuz you're white. If you're a slob and/or have no degree of social intelligence, your chances are not much better outside America of picking up a girl.
Now, I don't consider myself an expert so feel free to disagree with what I've said.

Disagree. In most situations it will be a lot easier. Girls will have interest in you just because you're foreign. They won't necessarily want to date you, but you're already far better off than just being around girls that find you disgusting. Some of the obvious signs of a huge dork get masked in the cultural differences. Horrible social skills get masked by the language difference, anime obsession can to some degree be played off as a flattering appreciation of Japanese culture, etc. Eventually they'll figure out you're a huge dork, but you have some time to make your move before then.

[NERD]

Japanese seem to be far more cool with this than Chinese or Koreans. And Chinese seem to be slightly more cool with it than Koreans. People from the poorer Asian countries will likely get over any reservations because of the fact that their child is marrying into money. But I'm no expert on the subject either, having yet to even propose to one Asian girl...

I don't know about this. The only thing I agree is people from poorer countries are more likely to get over the reservations for the money. It is more likely that white/latin/other Asians have a better chance than a black person in terms of getting married to an Asian girl.

Disagree. In most situations it will be a lot easier. Girls will have interest in you just because you're foreign. They won't necessarily want to date you, but you're already far better off than just being around girls that find you disgusting. Some of the obvious signs of a huge dork get masked in the cultural differences. Horrible social skills get masked by the language difference, anime obsession can to some degree be played off as a flattering appreciation of Japanese culture, etc. Eventually they'll figure out you're a huge dork, but you have some time to make your move before then.

Yeah, I've seen one too many guys who were unpopular in his native countries only to go to Asia and find himself a honey. It's pathetic in a way, but I guess I should be happy for them to find someone.

[Azrael]

Well, in Japan at least there will be a nice slice of the population who will be undateable.

If you don't speak Japanese, you're going to have to find a girl that speaks English fairly well. This almost goes without saying. For a girl who wants a serious relationship, she knows if you guys can't communicate it's not going to work.

Even if you do speak Japanese, there are a lot of girls who just don't have any mind to date a foreigner. One of the common perceptions is that foreigners come to Japan to do a job for a few years and leave...and in a lot of ways that's true. On average, the Japanese don't really date casually...they're looking for marriage partners. Unless she's willing to pack up and go with you to whatever country you're from, or she thinks she can make you stay somehow, she may not bother at all. After all, your relationship will have an expiration date, and that's time she could be using to find her future husband. Not to mention she might worry about what her parents think, if they approve of her dating a Gaijin.

It is true that many guys who could get nothing in his home country come to Japan and have no problems hooking up, a lot of times they end up hooking up with the girls who only want foreigners - they don't see him, just "Shiny Gaijin Boyfriend!" A lot are looking for free English lessons, or a possible ticket out of the country. And some even have Japanese boyfriends, but will secretly date the Gaijin out of curiousity.

[Urban~Ninja]

Well from Experience from my Cousins friends when i was in Kure (Outside Hiroshima) it really depends, two of her friends were so god damn sweet and cute but they were how will i say it very hyperactive, then he best friend was a Tom Boy and tried that whole Female Gangster look, then some of the toehr girls i met where just a mixture.

There isnt much different between the personalites you find in Japanese Girls and the ones you find in Western Girls, i think its just a thing you have got hooked in you head that Japanese girls are the perfect GF material, which im not gonna lie to you some are, but like girls in the west most arnt.

Yellow Fever as you say it, i think tends to come from a persons wish to Be Japanese and since they know they cant be it from nationality, they hope to gain some kind of Japanese-ness (Only way to describe it) by being with a Japanese Girl, this may not be the case with all, but it seems to be a pretty good idea for alot of people with Yellow Fever.

Im Japanese Blooded (Only part) and i dont look at a Japanese girl and say "Wow Japanese Girl" or even with Western Girls, maybe its because im of both sides of the world and i dont see any difference. I think that race is completely unimportant. Not in my life have i ever choosen a girl based on race. I have dated a Korean, Irish, another Asian girl that i didnt know the exact Asian Race she was and Australian girls, although i wouldnt mind dating a Japanese girl, it would have to be for the right reasons, not because she is Japanese.

Also that idea that Japanese girls may be pressured to date Japanese men by family is true, my cousins are only allowed to date Japanese Blooded, so you would have to have atleast i would say 1/4 Japanese blood to get with them, and i assume that would be the case with many girls. Then you can also see this in other races, Lebonesse for instance or some western familes may still do it.

Now Thats my two cents.

[NERD]

Sorry, no offense, but reading your post made my head spin a bit. For some reason, my mind kept going back to "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince".

[Urban~Ninja]

Really? How odd, i havent read it so i dont know, maybe i made some kind of reference?

[NERD]

No, I think it was due to the fact that you used 'blood' three times in the post. I want to drink some tomato juice now.

And the English major in me would like to strangle you for not capitalizing "I". Have a nice day!

[Urban~Ninja]

Sorry, Im used to typing on word where it would fix it up for me, god bless it. I'll try to capitalize more, well lets not derail this thread, so back on topic.

Any other opinions on my whole idea that it may be some people wishing to gain some kind of Japanese-ness (No better way to say it) in dating or getting married to a Japanese girl?

[Kustom]

Much has been said already but I'd like to expand a little bit what Zero and others have been saying about cultural differences. First, let me get this out of the way: stereotypes and gross generalisations are bad and if you use them as the base for choosing who you should or shouldn't date, it will all end badly and it will serve you right.

However, cultural differences are real. For instance, there are bold and shy people everywhere, including America and Japan. But it strikes me that in America, shy people are more at a disadvantage than they are in Japan, while being bold and extravert in Japan can be a real hindrance. As a result, we perceive Japanese people as a whole as being more shy, and it is true to an extent because Japanese culture encourages this in social interactions much more than in the west.

There are undeniable cultural differences between Western guys and Japanese girls and from my experience they never fail to create tensions in any such couple... Understanding them is key to a succesful relationship.

Of course, not all Japanese girls will display all the tendencies I'm writing about here. But I have yet to meet a Japanese girl that doesn't have ANY of those traits, no matter how westernized (and I know girls that have been in America for 10 years+!)

I've been in two very serious, long relationships with Japanese girls. Here are issues that came up in both:

- Trouble expressing important emotions: As has been mentionned before, Japanese people do not express their emotions (beyond "Oishiiii"/"Kawaiiiiii" stuff) openly even to their significant other, and indeed actively hide them from you because they don't want to have you worry. Asking for their true feelings ("Will you please tell me what this is all about???) leads nowhere and things can get ugly if you insist too much. Trust helps of course, but even after several years they do not completely open to you. Communication with a Japanese girl is not what you're used to in a couple, even if you both speak the same language fine.

- Aversion to conflict: We Westerners are used to see conflict as necessary and sometimes productive. With all the divorces and mismatches around us, we think that a succesful relationship lies on discussing problems as they arise and sometimes refer to councelling or other arbitration methods when we disagree. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger etc. But Japanese people avoid conflicts with a passion. They won't usually say anything if they think something is wrong, and act as if they were perfectly happy; only to snap at you at the least expected moment with extra bitterness (internalizing negative feelings is bad psychology no matter what culture you live in).
On the other hand, they can take criticism very badly, and refuse to address your concerns if they feel accused by you. If you tell a Japanese girl you don't like her kind of music, she'll assume you're trying to dump her. Worse, sometimes any criticism (of a movie you just saw, or of anything Japanese...) will be taken as a personal attack... It's that bad: in the west, open conflict is normal in any relationship; in Japan, it usually means the end of said relationship.

- Self-sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, everyone makes sacrifices for their loved ones, but moreso in Japan than in the individualist West. In the West, you are usually not expected to sacrifice all of your life, career, friends, home country, hobbies, privacy, space, rest time, etc to your significant other if you can avoid it (I don't care what you say on principles, it just doesn't happen that way 99% of the time)... But in Japan, you are, and it has two downsides. First, your gf will try to make sacrifices for you you absolutely don't want her to do ("Darling, I just quit my job so I can cook you bentos all day!"). If you argue, she will think you're just trying to be nice to her but won't change her mind about what's good for you...
The other downside, of course, is that you are expected to do the same, and if there are things you are not ready to give up for her it can mean trouble (in my case for instance, seeing my friends has been a big issue, especially of the female variety).

- PDAs: While Japanese people can be very affectuous in private, they can act distant and cold in public in a way that pisses my latin side to no end. Don't ever expect to hold hands in front of the parents!

- Manners and hygien: They are important things everywhere, but especially in Japan. Most Japanese girls appear obsessed with cleanliness because standards are stricter in Japan. My ex would give me no end of shit if I kissed her when sick or if I put my fork in direct contact with the table (which somehow makes sense), or if I blew my nose in public (which doesn't)...

There are others, I'm sure other people have been through a lot more and have theories on how to deal with those differences... I'd be glad to get their advice btw! ;)

[tbonicus]

"I want to assume you meant well and are not socially retarded."
" Are you a social retard?"

stsparky

'I'm asuming' you're very young/learning English?
Just so you know, in English, sometimes using the same word over and over is frowned upon.
You might want to substitute a phrase for 'socially retarded' like 'socailly inept' or 'completely clueless' or something along those lines.

Also, maybe you're like me, hurriedly responding to posts between whatever it is you're doing at work, but you need to read the posts a bit more carefully:

"You can find a woman who'll act like her poop don't stink in any culture."
No one ever disputed this.

"You fail to take into account as to how date-able you may appear to Japanese Women."
Irrelevent.
The post asked for specific reasons why those who do, had issues with Japanese girls since I hadn't heard many specific underlying reasons as to why they felt that way.

"It's a two way street. One day, you'll understand my "deeper truth" if you're lucky."
I think I am really gaining alot of insight thanks to you guys breaking it down across cultural barriers. Thanks to everyone that posted. This is exactly what I was seeking; many different opinions from people with first hand experience of the topic.

"Want to explain why your Malaysian lady dropped you?"
No one dropped anyone. (Are we reading the same posts?)

Urban~Ninja
"Any other opinions on my whole idea that it may be some people wishing to gain some kind of Japanese-ness (No better way to say it) in dating or getting married to a Japanese girl?"

I definitely think that some people have this as their underlying reason.
Maybe they are attracted to the culture and are seeking validation from it?
Maybe an unhealthy obsession with all things Japanese?

Luckily for me this is not the case.

[Trump]

To say that western women wouldn't exploit you to hell and back without a second thought is just funny.

[tbonicus]

Trump. I hear that...

[tbonicus]

"You can find a woman who'll act like her her poop don't stink (http://www.takeawhiff.com/) in any culture."

[more cheerios]

A good majority of the ones who have that desire to get out of Japan to experience education and life elsewhere are NOT normal by Japanese standards. They are the ones who do not necessarily fit in to the rigid Japanese social order and looking to escape that restrictive environment. This is the whole 'wa' influenced group solidarity, decision making by group consensus, conformity, etc which shako-jirei is derived from and permeates all aspects of Japanese culture and society; the ambiguities which tend to drive gaikokujin initially unfamiliar to these subtle cultural differences up the wall. Even the ones who weren't looking to escape end up finding themselves with a different perspective and often times find returning to Japan a painful experience with feelings not too different from kikokushijo's (returnee students whose parents were working overseas but are now returning to Japan). Many end up choosing not to re-integrate back into Japanese society and make their lives elsewhere. I'm Japanese and live outside of Japan; I would live there long term if I ran my own business or was able to work for the right company but I definitely would not want my kids going into the Japanese education system.
I hope you realized you just proved my point. Of course they are not normal by 'Japanese standards' but I was not talking about 'Japanese standards'. By a general North American standard, the ones I have talked to have been 'normal'. Hence, there are Japanese girls who do not 'fit the norm'.


Azrael: Of course not every Japanese person travels abroad, just like not every Canadian likes hockey. But there are a lot who do.

[stsparky]

... Of course not every girl here is the Gucci-bag toting vapid fashion whore. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them, more than you may be accustomed to seeing (unless you live in LA). Even if you do find a nice girl, there will stil be cultural stuff that comes into play. AZ? You ever live in Los Angeles? We run all types here as well - and each of them range from fun-loving tomboy in the morning to glamour model or wannabe movie star at night:
http://static.flickr.com/30/54050324_33e1d85491_m.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/27/54051049_b7ff67831c_m.jpg

That's the way women are ... You know why Misses Americanized 1 & 2 would bail for the US? If they were gainfully employed with dignity?

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/sony_pictures_classics/brother/_group_photos/joy_nakagawa4.jpg

Life's funny. No one wants to be viewed as a commodity with an expiration date. The Japanese Louis Vuitton gals are the most likely ones who'd view a "Gaijin Prettyboy" as a disposable fashion accessory. I'd advise folks to steer clear. - Sparky
---------------------
Aside to (tbonicus (http://member.php?u=405)) - I'm exactly the same age as NASA and just as American. I asked twice because you were coming across that way. I assumed you meant no harm and didn't mean to sound like a socially backwards self serving prick. My problem is that I parse the replies as well. "Girls" aren't women. As far as I'm concerned dating them is kosher only if you yourself are close enough to their age. If you're over 22 - you should focus on women. Being a 'boytoy' is not something I'd wish on a stranger. And I don't think I'd introduce the nieces to you anytime soon.

Best of luck with your dating thing - Sparky

[jindojim]

Kustom has some really good points, they're all true to some extent.

I want to emphasize the point about PDA: Kissing in public = no for Japanese girls
And no affection at all in front of parents.

About self-sacrifice...that's expected of Japanese women when they're in a relationship, especially after marriage. Japanese men expect them to quit work once they're married. You should just expect it out of them too.

I'd like to add one more thing: Japanese girls are dependent. They will rely on you more than Western girls.

As for being closed about their feelings, that's more true for Japanese men than women. Japanese women don't expect to really talk about their emotions with their men cuz it's just weird to them. And Japanese men certainly have no intention of opening up to their wives/significant other.

Just some quick thoughts.

[tbonicus]

*ouch*......................................

[stsparky]

*ouch* ... Didn't want to be harsh, but seriously look at your post. To get a date with just some random Asian fashion model is not that hard; It's the 2nd and 3rd dates that are the challenge. Develop the right mindset and you'll make nuns weak in the knees. We don't know the future goals you expect to reach with dating Japanese ladies either. But I'm just an older dude with a beautiful wife and a baby on the way - Sparky

[apmarkey]

first-time caller, long-time listener.

in terms of shallowness, any big city will have that certain desire for status. i hate that of anyone, and i certainly don't understand it.

my fiancee is chinese, and i have a certain fondness for chinese women in general. having lived in hong kong for a few years, and able to learn cantonese (to a reasonable extent), i loved everything about it. excluding some of the wonderful odors found there. some generalizations: more naive. more dependent and/or needy. shallow? big city. couldn't answer about the looking for hubby thing. it really didn't seem that way because many are too concerned for work, and most married folk i knew were way into their 30's before they got hitched. i saw many an otherwise lonely white guy with rather well-groomed women there, but knew plenty who just weren't into the white (foreign) meat.

i love the eyes. their skin is really nice too. and, like az, i like my women with meat on them. i can relate 100% when he starts talking about whomever it is that actually has mass to them. nothing is quite like an asian with a great figure.

what do i love about my fiancee (http://www.mission.net/china/hong-kong/alumnipix/liquidf_monytrip015b.jpg)? aside from the above general statements, we just have a good time together. she is hilarious, hard-working, simple and modest in that really cute way. and i really didn't go out looking for that. the asian thing is a plus.

[NERD]

About self-sacrifice...that's expected of Japanese women when they're in a relationship, especially after marriage. Japanese men expect them to quit work once they're married. You should just expect it out of them too.

I'd like to add one more thing: Japanese girls are dependent. They will rely on you more than Western girls.

As for being closed about their feelings, that's more true for Japanese men than women. Japanese women don't expect to really talk about their emotions with their men cuz it's just weird to them. And Japanese men certainly have no intention of opening up to their wives/significant other.


That's why Japanese men cheat around their wives. With all the sex-related business around them, it's not that hard to go around and screw with someone else, or start stuff like Enjo Kozai.

Also, a lot of women opt for divorce after putting up with their husbands for years. Around retirement, when the husbands get some money from their workplaces for their years of service, the wives demand a divorce, and get a huge chunk of that money.

Some women can't even deal with the increased presence of their husbands after retirement, since they lived so many years with minimal contact between each other, to the point that they get sick from the stress of dealing with their husbands.

Talk about nuclear family.

Some articles on the matter: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/16/AR2005101601145.html
http://www.askasia.org/frclasrm/readings/r000128.htm

[BluZytrix]

Kobun, very interesting read. Thank you. I'm really curious if the next generation of couples will be more like the West. Talking to my teacher, she feels that things are reverting back to the older style of the woman being a housewife because this was easier than acutally having to go out and make a carreer for oneself. That's just one opinion but interesting coming from an older woman in Japanese society.

I will be one to admit that before I came to Japan, I really had a thing for Japanese women. Coming here didn't really stop that because I didn't really have the preconception of all girls looking like those on tv. Perhaps I'm much more happy with the plain-Jane type of Japanese girls that some may not consider to be 'hot' but I consider them beautiful. For anyone really obsessed with the cake-makeup girls, just get on the Yamonote at 8am, be smashed up against one and be in awe of the significant change in color from their face to their neck! Kimoi just thinking about. The real bottom line is that ethnicity doesn't determine beauty. No matter where she comes from, if she is gorgeous, there is no denying it.

[tbonicus]

stsparky
"Didn't want to be harsh, but seriously look at your post."

Don't worry about being too harsh stsparky..

But just to get it out of the way re-reads his post consisting of:

A reference to AZ, the dark side of the force and kanchos (KANCHO!)
A metaphoric confession that I find Japanese girls attractive but didn't didn't actively seek them out for dating or anything.
Another semi-serious confession that I was thinking about changing that.
A sarcastic comment about maybe visiting Japan to do this (with associated emoticon to convey playfull mood of comment)
A request for clarification of the reasons anyone had for beliving that Japanese girls had issues specific to them in order to spark interesting discussion.

stsparky's response:

A paste of the post title (?)
Judicious use of the phrase 'social retard' to the point of being mistaken for a small child.
Incorrect blanket statements that "all women are the same" and "What they are and where they come from doesn't matter"
The following statement which has nothing at all to do with the question asked:
"They can only be changed by love into caring partners." (Why would I want to change anyone?)
A statement about women who don't think their 'poop' stinks and being smart enough not to date them (again..not even pertinent to the post)
A snide, assuming comment about a situation you know literally nothing about and some sanctimonious family man comment.

Everyone else got the context of the question and commented accordingly...

I guess older dudes with beautiful wives and a babies on the way

1. are 'social retards'
2. can't read....or are 'social retards'...
3. are 'social retards'

(stsparky you can try again with this topic)

Kobun
Very interesting the fact that some wives asking for divorce after their husband retires.
Is the absence of the husband before retirment, in your opinion, because of the Japanses work ethic or sexual distractions available to them?

Incidentially, I've also read somewhere that more and more Japansese couples are having sexless marriages..

How true is this?

[deepbluevibes]

Don't base your infatuation on looks. The stars you see in music, movies, and TV...that is a look carefully crafted by professionals. Many of them have had surgery as well. As for the magazine idols and what not, in addition to layers of makeup the images are photoshopped to all hell and back.

That is not what you see walking around on the streets everyday.


Actually, that's not true.

Since i've been here in tokyo, i've seen at LEAST upwards of 100 girls who have ZERO makeup on, and look absolutely gorgeous, and i'm super fucking picky on looks (angelina jolie? britney spears? halle berry? utada hikaru? ayumi hamasaki? only sort of hot at best.)

so... yeah. there actually are tons of those girls all around who are super fucking beautiful naturally without surgery or makeup.

[NERD]

Kobun
Very interesting the fact that some wives asking for divorce after their husband retires.
Is the absence of the husband before retirment, in your opinion, because of the Japanses work ethic or sexual distractions available to them?

Incidentially, I've also read somewhere that more and more Japansese couples are having sexless marriages..

How true is this?

In my opinion, it's a bit of both. From what I know, and what I've been told, if you work in Japanese workplace, you are expected to log in many unproductive hours, because they'd rather have you spend many hours doing nothing than have you finish up your work quickly and go home early. I hear it's not unusual to go more than 9 to 5 compared to the usual work hours in the States. And you hear people in the States not having enough time to interact with their spouses/family due to their work. And though I don't know enough about it, seems like the married life in Japan is a bit different than it is in the States. I would need more evidence before I can say this for sure though.

And here's a good article about sexless marriage in Japan. Of course, if you lead a marriage life with no/almost no sex for years, chances are, it will lead to divorce some time, eh?

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/print/features/life2004/fl20041212x1.htm

[Kustom]

You have to understand what marriage means in Japan. Marriage is not the ultimate staement of love there is between two individuals (that would be jumping from a cliff together), unlike in the West good marriage doesn't mean there is love (this view is also relatively recent, by the way. Arranged marriage was still happening in the French countryside in my grand-mother's days).

From my limited experience, there's nothing wrong with Japanese girls' sex drive (on the contrary!).

But marriage is not about sex, or love for that matter, it's about division of labor and it's a mini social contract. I provide the money, you take care of the house and kids. There is no need to talk, hang around with each other, share a lot in common to marry the Japanese way. You don't sleep in the same bed / room, don't share the same hobbies and interests, you can even leave for vacation your own way when you (rarely) get some. You have your own TV, car and lifestyle. You do share the same bank account. But marriage is mostly a deal to help each other get through life. A single woman has close to no chance of having a good career, and it is unthinkable that she would have children. A single man is unelligible for a promotion, and likely to starve to death or turn his appartment into a garbage dump because he won't have any time for anything else than work. In order to achieve social status and stability, you gotta marry, now, before you're 25, before it's too late, anyone can do, if you're too busy your family of friends will fetch a groom/bride for you.

It's the sad truth, and that also explains why divorce is low: people don't expect their marriage to be brilliant, happy, or not to be cheated upon. This is of course changing because of Western influence, but slower than we usually think...

[NERD]

Divorce rate in Japan is lower than say, America or France, but it is becoming more common in Japan. I'm guessing the divorce process must be a hell of a thing to go through, given the extremely bureacratic nature of Japanese administrators.

[Firebaall]

No worries...clean link ( no nudity )

http://clean.scanlover.com/

[jindojim]

Actually, that's not true.

Since i've been here in tokyo, i've seen at LEAST upwards of 100 girls who have ZERO makeup on, and look absolutely gorgeous, and i'm super fucking picky on looks (angelina jolie? britney spears? halle berry? utada hikaru? ayumi hamasaki? only sort of hot at best.)

so... yeah. there actually are tons of those girls all around who are super fucking beautiful naturally without surgery or makeup.

Tons, no. But, I am willing to admit that there are some pretty girls in Tokyo. I didn't expect to see as many attractive girls as I did, since from the pictures of Japanese girls I've seen, I've never had a good impression of them. However, they are NOT naturally beautiful (tho I don't know who you consider beautiful). Japanese girls, especially Tokyo girls, wear makeup all the time. They just know how to artfully put it on instead of putting globs of it on like some Western women. And surgery is more common than you would think. Japanese girls are very very concerned about how they look, especially in Tokyo. Don't ever say anything bad about how they look.

[Azrael]

Actually, that's not true.

Since i've been here in tokyo, i've seen at LEAST upwards of 100 girls who have ZERO makeup on, and look absolutely gorgeous, and i'm super fucking picky on looks (angelina jolie? britney spears? halle berry? utada hikaru? ayumi hamasaki? only sort of hot at best.)

so... yeah. there actually are tons of those girls all around who are super fucking beautiful naturally without surgery or makeup.
As I've said many times before......

Tokyo does not equal the rest of Japan.

[Moone]

Been reading the "I am Japanese School Teacher" editorals for a few days, now, actually found it through a swedish page that links to various fun sites. So I understand Azrael has had some trouble with japanese girls and is a somewhat firm opposer of the whole gaijins-drewling-over-japanese-girls-thing.

I'm with a japanese girl, it's been 6 months now (we met in Paris this spring;). Based on these 6 wonderful months, I was first tempted to oppose Az's jap-girl-bashing... But my girl is quite a bit different than what japanese girls genereally seem to be (very generally speaking, of course). Hardly wears make-up, for starters. Likes fashion, pretty much so, but has no trouble talking about intellectual stuff, if you will. She even reacts and tells me how distorted japanese culture/girls/boys can be. And some of my swedish friends who've met her told me later that she seemed oddly european, no giggling and doing the peace-sign, if you will.

I've also gotten a better picture of japanese girls, through my girlfriend amongst other highly reliable sources, during these past months, and I've gotten an impression quite similar to Az's.... Too much make-up, too consumtion-crazy, too.... hollow, to be harsh. Ok ok, I haven't been to the country yet (soon, december...), but I've got the feeling that I'll be feeling the same way after, too. We'll see...

So, to address the first poster, I'm sorry, I grabbed the only good japanese girl, so forget about :D

[Moone]

I'd like to touch on the subject of marriage and racism with asian/japanese parents. Hanacker suggested, on the last page, that the japanese would be less rigid on the marrying-a-gaijin-thing, but I'm not too sure about that. Here's a quite tragic example: a friend of mine hooked up with a japanese girl, they fell totally in love with each other, nirvana-like stuff, from what he told me ;) They met in Japan, he then went back to his native France and returned once more to see her. But at the end of this "the greatest 3 weeks of my life", something changed. Long story short: she dumped him, the reason being, he found out much later, that her parents would not approve of them engaging in a serious relationship. He had always been very well taken care of and accomodated, there was no problem there, but upon asking their daughter if he was possible marriage material, and finding out that it might very well be so, it had to end. The whole thing was horrible for him and quite worrying for me, I must say, seeing as I'm dating a a japanese girl I am madly in love with and am about to go visit!! But I seem to be lucky, as her parents appear to be the coolest people ever, so I'm honestly not worried, although we'll have to see after I get back ;)

[stsparky]

"Didn't want to be harsh, but seriously look at your post." Are they really that bad? ... I consider myself to be a 'carrier' of the 'Yellow Fever'. ... I am infected, but I do not display the symptoms in that I do not actively seek out and date Japanese women (even though I find japanses women incredibly attractive). ... I am, however, thinking about making a move to the darkside like ol' AZ and changing this. Maybe a visit to Japan may not be out of the question...? :D ... But everytime I hear AZ go on about the issues apparently associated with japansese girls, I remember my former self (there still is good in me...a little) and think twice ... All with experience speak... What is it that (allegedly) should dissuade me from dating a japansese girl? Don't worry about being too harsh stsparky... Judicious use of the phrase 'social retard' to the point of being mistaken for a small child. I used it twice. You still come off as backwards and inept. And you're not listening. My two cents is that you should stay away from Japanese girls because your fetish will mark you. - Sparky

[Komachi Angel]

>I want to emphasize the point about PDA: Kissing in public = no for Japanese girls
>And no affection at all in front of parents.

It depends on the person. I know people for which both are ok, but on the other hand some will be embarrased, etc.

>About self-sacrifice...that's expected of Japanese women when they're in a
>relationship, especially after marriage. Japanese men expect them to quit work once
>they're married. You should just expect it out of them too.

I hate guys who are all 'me, me, me' in a relationship. Can't stress that enough. Yeah, there are expectations, but always give out as much as you get in. Not really connected, but just something that ticks me off.

>I'd like to add one more thing: Japanese girls are dependent. They will rely on you
>more than Western girls.

Once again, I have known lots of Japanese ladies who are quite happy on their own and are highly independant. Depends on the person, I guess.

>As for being closed about their feelings, that's more true for Japanese men than
>women. Japanese women don't expect to really talk about their emotions with their
>men cuz it's just weird to them. And Japanese men certainly have no intention of
>opening up to their wives/significant other.

I have to agree with this. From the conversations I have had with most men, they seem completely disinterested in what their significant other is feeling. Their OS, understanding this, doesn't open up, and eventually just takes that side with men in general, but she might want to talk about things. Refer to my post above- I hate men that don't care about these things.

>Just some quick thoughts.

Good points. :)

EDIT - As an afterthought, I can sum up all interactions with women and the secret to being successful into the one handy phrase - 'Don't be a dick'. Really, it works.

[jindojim]

there's a pretty popular series of manga books called "daringu wa gaikokujin (My darling is a foreigner)" in Japan. written/drawn by a Japanese woman married to a white guy. points at the habits of foreigners from the Japanese point of view. like how they have particular Japanese phrases they like to say over and over. hehe. just wanted to mention it. not sure if it necessarily means a larger slice of the "undateable" Japanese women will suddenly want to date a foreigner tho. prob is just an interesting read to them. but, i told my gf to buy it and read it to see how much i match the white guy. she assured me that i'm generally not like the guy in the book. then we made fun of Az on the train by calling him Bobby and calling random white people "Tom Cruise!"....cuz that's what couples in Japan do together instead of having sex.
jk.

[Komachi Angel]

Just a thought - if you are after one Japanese lady in particular, then work out the differences with *her* specifically, and try and understand where *she* stands. The question for this topic is in itself too broad to answer directly.

Remember, just like Az said in his first ed. about life in Japan, the Japanese see westerners mainly through the media. These tend to take a different viewpoint on western people, with models often being taken to look slightly anime-like with larges eyes, or fit certain ideals that the west does *not* put forward in general.

Likewise, our view of Japanese women and society as a whole is more or less the same, except we are prone to EVEN LESS exposure, and EVEN LESS proper exposure. Think about how much you hear regarding Japanese culture - something about Samurai and Geisha, and how cool Tokyo is, perhaps? Those who study the culture have a bit better idea, but the general person on the street knows surprisingly little about what Japan IS REALLY LIKE (remember the line about export culture?).

My point is this - it is possible to talk about Japan as we hear about it without end, but get away from the stereotypical image of the country and the culture and you will do fine. I can't stress this enough.

[stsparky]

there's a pretty popular series of manga books called "daringu wa gaikokujin (My darling is a foreigner)" in Japan. written/drawn by a Japanese woman married to a white guy. ... He's a Persian man by the way, not your average "white guy" ... and there's not enough pictures in them.

We favor "My Wife's a New Yorker!" which has a Japanese guy and family uprooted to Manhatten. -

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/4327440809.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpghttp://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/4327440817.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
奥さまはニューヨーカー（上）——英語講座まんが
岡田 光世 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books-jp&field-author=%E5%85%89%E4%B8%96%2C%20%E5%B2%A1%E7%94%B0/249-4128832-8521163) (著), 島本 真記子 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books-jp&field-author=%E7%9C%9F%E8%A8%98%E5%AD%90%2C%20%E5%B3%B6% E6%9C%AC/249-4128832-8521163)

But yes, women would fawn when they heard my wife call me 'Darling!" -
not getting the Urusei Yatsura reference. - Sparky

[kitsunepixie]

We favor "My Wife's a New Yorker!" which has a Japanese guy and family uprooted to Manhatten. -

But yes, women would fawn when they heard my wife call me 'Darling!" -
not getting the Urusei Yatsura reference. - Sparky

I enjoy that series as well...it points out misconceptions that the Japanese have about the West, as well as differences between "Japanese" English and American English.

I rarely hear American English speakers call their significant others "Darling" , though I think it is cute when they do. I hear "honey" and "sweetheart" more often. Do British English speakers still call their lovers "Darling"? Don't tell me your wife says だっちゃ！　at the end of most of her sentences, too! ;)

[JC123]

First post. Yay.

Currently, I'm in the US with my girl in Japan. I've honestly debated whether it should continue until I get back to Japan.

No, I don't go ga-ga over Japanese women. Hell, I got lucky she approached me saying I was cute.

I met her right before I left Japan and had to go to both the Phillipines and the US. Right now, I live in the US. But I call a lot. And she works a lot.

Are Japanese girls that bad? I'd like to think not. When we see each other again, I'll honestly ask her, "do you wanna stay together?"

That's a big adjustment. I've gotten her to be more honest with me, which really took some time. But she has dated Americans before and told me, she never really had an interest in Japanese guys. This from a mainlander.

In reference, I was in Okinawa. It's a small island of the cost of Honshu with about 2 million people and a big Air Force presence. Meaning they hate Americans and have a lot of influence from American culture. Best jobs are American due to their economy (or lack thereof)

Now, my girl works 6 days a week. I've seriously asked her does she want a job in the US. But ya know? I still wonder, is she using me?

In the end though, main thing I can do is trust her. Anything she does in Japan while I'm away will show me her attitude when we're together. For the most part, we had a good time together and she has explained her history.

So they're not all that bad. :D

[jindojim]

Yeah, I think the guy in "darin wa gaikokujin" is Greek or something. But Greek, Persian, white...you guys all look the same to me (*^.^*)

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know American partners don't call each other "darling" cuz I use it sometimes. I haven't heard "honey" and "sweetheart" used too often either cuz that sounds kinda like a married thing. But I guess every couple is different.

It's nice to know that there are other people out there who are in a long distance relationship w/ a Japanese girl.

[hanacker]

I'd like to touch on the subject of marriage and racism with asian/japanese parents. Hanacker suggested, on the last page, that the japanese would be less rigid on the marrying-a-gaijin-thing, but I'm not too sure about that. Here's a quite tragic example: a friend of mine hooked up with a japanese girl, they fell totally in love with each other, nirvana-like stuff, from what he told me ;) They met in Japan, he then went back to his native France and returned once more to see her. But at the end of this "the greatest 3 weeks of my life", something changed. Long story short: she dumped him, the reason being, he found out much later, that her parents would not approve of them engaging in a serious relationship. He had always been very well taken care of and accomodated, there was no problem there, but upon asking their daughter if he was possible marriage material, and finding out that it might very well be so, it had to end. The whole thing was horrible for him and quite worrying for me, I must say, seeing as I'm dating a a japanese girl I am madly in love with and am about to go visit!! But I seem to be lucky, as her parents appear to be the coolest people ever, so I'm honestly not worried, although we'll have to see after I get back ;)

I didn't mean to suggest that all Japanese parents would be ok with it. I'd imagine that most parents would much prefer their daughter marry a Japanese guy. But imho (based on anecdotal evidence), you'll find more Japanese parents who are ok with their child marrying a foreigner than Korean or Chinese parents. But don't count on it. My sister is actually dating a Chinese guy (moved to America before Kindergarten, though) and his family seems cool with it. But then again a Chinese family that moves to America isn't typical.

[Kustom]

Yeah, I think the guy in "darin wa gaikokujin" is Greek or something. But Greek, Persian, white...you guys all look the same to me (*^.^*)


He's American with Greek/Italian origins. I read the series but it's not as interesting as one would think... Not much focus on cultural differences, it mostly points out interesting facts about the Japanese and English language (the author is the mother of all language leeches, with all the money she made out of her husband! ;)).
Her case is also not typical, because when she met her husband he had already been established in Japan for a very long time and spoke perfect Japanese. He's also quite Japanese for certain things (never helps with the shores...). I read it for insight into my own relationship but didn't find it that interesting.

[Moone]

I didn't mean to suggest that all Japanese parents would be ok with it. I'd imagine that most parents would much prefer their daughter marry a Japanese guy. But imho (based on anecdotal evidence), you'll find more Japanese parents who are ok with their child marrying a foreigner than Korean or Chinese parents. But don't count on it. My sister is actually dating a Chinese guy (moved to America before Kindergarten, though) and his family seems cool with it. But then again a Chinese family that moves to America isn't typical.
Yea, I too would reckon that a family that has left it's native country would be more prone to let their offspring mate with other races, although it may also be the exact opposite! One (farfetched?) example is moslem immigrants in Sweden, where I live, who take their religion very seriously as it is a close connection to their native culture, where as people actually living in that country may take it much more casually. Likewise, I know of some families where especially the daughters are not allowed to date guys of other religions (which could be understandable), but often also guys from other countries, like this bosnian girl I know, who has to hide that she is dating an Iranian guy. I'm not sure that it would be as strict had her family lived in Bosnia.

[Slappy san]

Edit: I used to date a girl who actually did the photoshop work for Ayumi Hamasaki. It took nearly a week for one poster, working straight, and having seen the original work I can tell you it ain't pretty. For gods sakes, there is an outreach forum on the internet for people that worked on her posters to vent, it's that bad. I'm not making this up.

got any pics or links?

[Azrael]

Edit: I used to date a girl who actually did the photoshop work for Ayumi Hamasaki. It took nearly a week for one poster, working straight, and having seen the original work I can tell you it ain't pretty. For gods sakes, there is an outreach forum on the internet for people that worked on her posters to vent, it's that bad. I'm not making this up.
Thank you.

Now, if only there were a way for your words to reach more people. I finally caught up with all the emails I hadn't read, turns out a couple of people were unhappy with the Ayu comment I made in one editorial. ...Natural beauty my ass.

[quist]

While everyone is an individual, as someone who married Japanese and failed, I would have to agree with many of Kustom's points about aversion to conflict and self-sacrifice.
I wish I had his advice 15 years ago, but I was probably too blind in love to make a difference. While I am sure I was not faultless, from my perspective our relationship was 3 years of me cutting away pieces of my independence to prove to her that I really loved her.

Me: I had lunch with a female friend from work today.
Her: You cheating bastard, you went on a date.
Me after much debate: okay I guess I don't have to have lunch with female people anymore.

Me: My best friend got a hand job from his girlfriend who works in food service. She was refilling tobasco bottles today and must have still had some on her hands. After a coulpe of minutes, he was like WTF . . .
Her: Oh my god you guys talk about sex. You heathens, the earth should open and swallow you both. (not really but that was the jist)
Note to self, never share anything your friend said or anything that happened in his life

Me: I am gonna go hang out with my friends this Saturday who I can't see any other time because I live at school like 50 miles away from their house.
Her: Oh, my god you would rather spend all your time with your friends. They are more important to you than me.
Me: but he is my best friend and I haven't seen or spoken to him for week; we live together and can do something on Sunday. Don't you want to see your friends or do something with them?
Her: If you were Japanese you would understand!
Me: Okay, scratch off seeing my friends weekly.

It was like living in a fish bowl after a while, and I guess I could have survived that life for a lot longer, but she kept picking the bowl up ever month or so and shaking it.

Her: You are not happy in this tiny little self-contained universe I have constructed for you. You will abandon me for imaginary younger floozy who is out to steal you away.
Me for the first 10 times or so: don't be silly I love you besides how could I possibly meet this imaginary floozy in this tiny universe.
Me on the 11th time: The jig is up, you got me. In fact I am going to abandon you for her now despite the fact that I have never even met her.

For those of you who may be thinking, wow what a weak loser, that would never happen to me, I say be in love, be married and have your spouse ask you to make a thousand small sacrifices to make them happy. Before you know it, you have chopped off your whole are and are working on a leg.

Those salary men aren't working overtime, they are hiding.

[Frankey-eh]

on the topic of guys hoping to get Japanese girls...
I came across this thread at 2ch http://academy4.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1128300294/

Yes, I know it's 2ch and 90% of their comments are useless. But this thread actually had 15% insightful posts. That's a little better than average. Basically, ignoring all the bad Engrish and spam, people are agreeing that foreign guys who go to Japan only get the "ugly" girls... at least, in Japanese men's standards. Because the cute girls have enough self-confidence to turn them down. Only the ugly girls who doesn't get the attention of Japanese men will be desperate enough to lower themselves to gaijin, and their looks/personality would usually suck. Hence why they were rejected by Japanese men in the first place.

Now, I don't know whether this is true or not. I, for one, would never have the courage/desperacy (depending on how you look at it) to try an interracial relationship. But supposing this was true, it might explain why Az and others might describe Japanese girl as "bad". Because all the "good" ones are already taken by the natives...

one thing I truly care though... is, do Americans and Japanese really have different standards on what is "attractive"? Az, you mentioned you watch a Japanese dating show and found yourself constantly disagreeing with the majority's opinion. Care to share a few examples?

[stoningcrows]

......Basically, ignoring all the bad Engrish and spam, people are agreeing that foreign guys who go to Japan only get the "ugly" girls... at least, in Japanese men's standards. Because the cute girls have enough self-confidence to turn them down. Only the ugly girls who doesn't get the attention of Japanese men will be desperate enough to lower themselves to gaijin, and their looks/personality would usually suck. Hence why they were rejected by Japanese men in the first place.....

Now, I don't know whether this is true or not. I, for one, would never have the courage/desperacy (depending on how you look at it) to try an interracial relationship. But supposing this was true, it might explain why Az and others might describe Japanese girl as "bad". Because all the "good" ones are already taken by the natives...



ouch .... was that really necessary? haha, anyway I think that if such a thing was true then it would apply to your average asian(japanese) men as well. The "good" ones are sought after anywhere.

Although I'll have to say that I've yet to see an attractive asian women with a foreigner. The woman might be younger but definitely not very attractive. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because that's exactly the same for most asian men as well.

[Azrael]

snip
I feel your pain brother, I've been there. My ex wasn't as harsh as yours, but I just never got to see my friends. For the first part, it was always her way, but then I started putting my foot down more. But she still won the proverbial coin toss far more than she should have.

Basically, ignoring all the bad Engrish and spam, people are agreeing that foreign guys who go to Japan only get the "ugly" girls... at least, in Japanese men's standards. Because the cute girls have enough self-confidence to turn them down. Only the ugly girls who doesn't get the attention of Japanese men will be desperate enough to lower themselves to gaijin, and their looks/personality would usually suck. Hence why they were rejected by Japanese men in the first place.

Now, I don't know whether this is true or not. I, for one, would never have the courage/desperacy (depending on how you look at it) to try an interracial relationship. But supposing this was true, it might explain why Az and others might describe Japanese girl as "bad". Because all the "good" ones are already taken by the natives...

one thing I truly care though... is, do Americans and Japanese really have different standards on what is "attractive"? Az, you mentioned you watch a Japanese dating show and found yourself constantly disagreeing with the majority's opinion. Care to share a few examples?
Pfft, no. On the contrary, I've seen plenty of sub-standard/flat out ugly guys walking around with half decent/hot Japanese women. My ex, with makeup, was considered to strikingly beautiful, and I dated her for over a year.

While there are a lot of gaijin chasers who wants to date foreign men for the sake of free English lessons/a ticket overseas, there are girls who just prefer foreign men for legitmate reasons. Gaijin boyfriends/husbands are more likely to actually come home before the last train. Chances are he won't force her to quit her job and start popping out babies after marriage. And he won't expect her to be a slave to fashion/image either. Ms. Americanized 2 is absolutely beautiful, but she hasn't had a boyfriend in years. She has normal black hair, doesn't wear makeup, doesn't wear the expensive fashions, doesn't carry the Louis Vitton bags. "Japanese guys don't like me" she says simply. Japanese guys tend to go for the overblown Barbie dolls - caked in makeup, expensive hair styles, overly girly/frail/dependent, etc. Maybe by that standard, Ms. Americanized 2 doesn't cut it. But again, this woman is beautiful - I've had people, without me pointing her out or anything, notice her on the pictures on my wall and say "Who is this woman? She's very pretty/gorgeous."

So that's one point where me and Japanese guys definitely don't see eye to eye. Japanese guys love Otsuka Ai, they think she's the height of all cuteness. I don't see anything special about her at all, just another successful Maybelline product. I was watching this one TV show where they brought these girls up to a 10 meter high dive and timed how long it took for them to jump off...the last girl threw a fit, stomping around, whining, screaming "iyada! iyada! muri muri!". The Japanese MC guys thought that this was the height of cuteness. I wanted her to shut the hell up and just jump.

Incidentally, the show I'd mentioned before wasn't a dating show...they brought on 3 or more celebrity girls, and after the usual boring BS and gossip, presented them with a series of situations and they had to choose whether they were a Akai Onna or Kuroi Onna. Then they'd show, out of 100 guys polled, what type of girl they preferred in that situation. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, but an example one would be the guy and girl have been dating for 3 months...but the guy hasn't tried to have sex with her at all. So one night after some drinks, she gets him to take her back to his place. What would you do here? - the Akai Onna pretends to be drunker than she really is, lays down on the bed, and casually flashes some skin to the guy. The Kuroi Onna pushes him down on the bed, asks what the hell is wrong with him, and proceeds to more or less female-rape him. (For the record, I preferred Kuroi while most Japanese men liked Akai on this one).

[stsparky]

While everyone is an individual, as someone who married Japanese and failed, I would have to agree with many of Kustom's points about aversion to conflict and self-sacrifice. ... I wish I had his advice 15 years ago, but I was probably too blind in love to make a difference. While I am sure I was not faultless, from my perspective our relationship was 3 years of me cutting away pieces of my independence to prove to her that I really loved her.
Me: I had lunch with a female friend from work today.
Her: You cheating bastard, you went on a date.
Me after much debate: okay I guess I don't have to have lunch with female people anymore.

How old were you? I married later and am quite happy at the moment. Wife is worried that I'd run off with my Japanese Actress pal of 21 years. It is the only thing I reassure her of when she feels ugly and bloated from being pregnant.

- Sparky

[jindojim]

Hmm...I thought I already mentioned this before in a previous post here. Asian guys see Asian girls different from non-Asian guys. The only time when decently looking Asian girls get with non-Asian guys is either cuz they prefer non-Asians for some reason (cuz of how they're diff from Asian guys) or cuz they just don't act a particular way that Asian guys prefer.

Now marrying an attractive Asian girl...that's a lot more rare.

[TrendSeven]

I've been dating a Japanese girl for roughly 5 months so far, and it's the best relationship I have been in. So, I'm going to have to say every case is different when it comes to women.

Unfortunately, in my case she is going back to Japan in about 2 months. So, I'm not sure what will happen after that.

[Frankey-eh]

Asian guys see Asian girls different from non-Asian guys.

Examples?

I've only had one experience dealing with Japanese guys, and that's when they were seven year old.
A guy refused to stop pulling my hair until I turned "cute" so to say. That weirded me out. Hopefully they've gotten better now. Nowadays, the only Japanese guys I meet are already Americanized half-way or completely.

[Chinpokomon]

So, I'm going to have to say every case is different when it comes to women.


That's about the smartest thing I've heard said on this thread.

Think about your own race/gender. How many stereotypes do you NOT fit into? Trying to say that all Japanese girls (or white guys, or left-handed Eskimos) are a certain way is just asking for trouble.

[General_Admission]

Hmm...I thought I already mentioned this before in a previous post here. Asian guys see Asian girls different from non-Asian guys. The only time when decently looking Asian girls get with non-Asian guys is either cuz they prefer non-Asians for some reason (cuz of how they're diff from Asian guys) or cuz they just don't act a particular way that Asian guys prefer.

Now marrying an attractive Asian girl...that's a lot more rare.

Most Asian girls are unattractive. In fact, most girls of any race are unattractive. I see girls at my high school all the time with guys who I think could have and should have gotten way better looking girls. I rarely see a couple where both have equal beauty. People just aren't attracted to someone soley because of looks. Someone could jsut be average but to someone else they poses their own unique cuteness and beauty.

Heck today at the allergist I saw a really handsome Asian guy with his wife. She had an awesome figure from behind but then she turned around and it looked like her head had been stretched and beaten with an ugly stick. :D

Point is, less than 1% gaijin. Tons of Japanese. Of that 1% most are average. Chances of you seeing a hot gaijin with a hot japanese chick is slim. More likely to see an average gaijin with an average japanese girl whom will msot likely be different from what teh average Japanese guy wants.

Just keep things simple and stick with white washed <ethnicity>-Americans and avoid the good ol' FOBs. ;)

[atheistium]

In my school the girls are SO innocent and pure (im in class with 15/16 year olds right now. But the 18 year old girls are pretty much also pure and innocent. only a few arnt).

They are obsessed with coping each other and EVERYTHING IS CUTE!!
I wore my hair down once, and I had a crowd of them pulling and poking and telling me it was adorable.

If you like the japanese girl LOOK then look for someone who is yourcountry-japanese rather than a real japanese girl. Because there is a very big cultural difference between western cultures and eastern cultures.

[SoulPlay]

While everyone is an individual, as someone who married Japanese and failed, I would have to agree with many of Kustom's points about aversion to conflict and self-sacrifice.
I wish I had his advice 15 years ago, but I was probably too blind in love to make a difference. While I am sure I was not faultless, from my perspective our relationship was 3 years of me cutting away pieces of my independence to prove to her that I really loved her.

Me: I had lunch with a female friend from work today.
Her: You cheating bastard, you went on a date.
Me after much debate: okay I guess I don't have to have lunch with female people anymore.

Me: My best friend got a hand job from his girlfriend who works in food service. She was refilling tobasco bottles today and must have still had some on her hands. After a coulpe of minutes, he was like WTF . . .
Her: Oh my god you guys talk about sex. You heathens, the earth should open and swallow you both. (not really but that was the jist)
Note to self, never share anything your friend said or anything that happened in his life

Me: I am gonna go hang out with my friends this Saturday who I can't see any other time because I live at school like 50 miles away from their house.
Her: Oh, my god you would rather spend all your time with your friends. They are more important to you than me.
Me: but he is my best friend and I haven't seen or spoken to him for week; we live together and can do something on Sunday. Don't you want to see your friends or do something with them?
Her: If you were Japanese you would understand!
Me: Okay, scratch off seeing my friends weekly.

It was like living in a fish bowl after a while, and I guess I could have survived that life for a lot longer, but she kept picking the bowl up ever month or so and shaking it.

Her: You are not happy in this tiny little self-contained universe I have constructed for you. You will abandon me for imaginary younger floozy who is out to steal you away.
Me for the first 10 times or so: don't be silly I love you besides how could I possibly meet this imaginary floozy in this tiny universe.
Me on the 11th time: The jig is up, you got me. In fact I am going to abandon you for her now despite the fact that I have never even met her.

For those of you who may be thinking, wow what a weak loser, that would never happen to me, I say be in love, be married and have your spouse ask you to make a thousand small sacrifices to make them happy. Before you know it, you have chopped off your whole are and are working on a leg.

Those salary men aren't working overtime, they are hiding.


I feel you man, when i was with my girl, I coudlnt tell her about me hanging with female friends, I couldnt argue with her, i couldnt do anything with her approval or at least her knowing about it. Everything was about her and her.

Once, she was sniffing tru my email account and found a couple of emails i sent to some girls...BEFORE I EVEN DATED HER. SHE made such a big issue about it i wanted to die that day. Sometimes i wonder if patience is indeed a virtue. Another time, she was singing alot, and ignoring what I was saying...almost in a rude way. So i got pissed about it, so i told her, "stop with it with my singing, it makes my ears want to shut themselves up". The girl didnt talk to me for 2 weeks ( we broke up).

A point on what kustom said about true feelings. My first fight with her was about this... I had done something that upset her the night before, so she told me she was upset. Good good....so i ask her, about what?.She goes... oh about nothing... never mind. Im like "no, tell me i want to know" (cause i had an idea of what ive done". But the girl would not tell me. It got to the point i got really pissed about it, even though she was right... but the fact that she wouldnt even tell me about it, and wanted me to figure it out was just out of this world annoying.

But this is the only thing i can think of as being bad about them. They were great in alot of other aspects.... and I enjoyed very much the time i was with her. If you have the guts, try a relationship with them! As with every relation, it will have it up and lows, but in the end, worth the every effort.

[jindojim]

Examples?


Well, I'd just like to clear up that first of all, I never said that a non-Asian can't get with a cute Asian girl. There are some cute Asian girls who go after non-Asians cuz they're different from Asian guys. However, there are some Asian girls who have to go after white guys cuz they can't get an Asian guy for some reason (and white guys with yellow fever snatch them up). And this goes back to my point: Asians see beauty differently from non-Asians.

Example: Lucy Liu...so many Americans seem to think she's really damn hot. To most of the Asians I ask (at least those with some fresh off the boat (fob)-ness in them) however, they don't see her as very attractive at all. It's all about the face and demeanor to Asian guys.

Every woman may be different, but you can't ignore culture to some degree. Being part of a culture means having some traits in common, and dating an Asian (unless they're really Americanized) is probably generally going to be a little different to a lot different from dating a non-Asian depending on how fobbish she is. So these cultural differences eventually surface and can cause problems to the point of termination in cross-cultural relationships. For an relationship to work, it's much better to have as much in common as possible. Still, it is LOVE (not women) that is full of exceptions and that's what's important in the relationship. Which allows some couples you and I would think improbable to exist. However, it is important to stress that dating someone without much love just cuz they're of a certain race is a sure way to splitsville.

(BTW, what's wrong with fobs, General Admission? You certainly seem to want to come across as one w/ your Pucca avatar...oh my darling, please love pretty(?).)

[quist]

How old were you? I married later and am quite happy at the moment. Wife is worried that I'd run off with my Japanese Actress pal of 21 years. It is the only thing I reassure her of when she feels ugly and bloated from being pregnant.

- Sparky

I was in my early 20s she was close to 30. Certainly, she was more insecure than your wife apparenlty is, but her fear also had cultural roots. She would quote a Japanese saying to me: "You don't check your hair under and apple tree, and you don't tie your shoelaces in a watermelon patch."

Essentially, no matter how innocent your actions are, you don't do anything that might even look suspicious. It will bring shame to your family. While AZ may stick out like a sore thumb, they are really watching everybody. She didn't make that stuff up, it was ingrained in her over decades.

Rant ON addressed to no one in particular.

I am not saying that it is impossible to have a cool inter-cultural relationship/marriage, but just because it is unfair to stereotype people and not judge them on their own merits doesn't mean that there are not sterotypes based on truly typical traits absorded as a result of your upbringing that you should be aware of and prepared to compromise about when they come up. In many cases, you may just have to give in if their upbringing created what you feel are irrational fears that you just can't argue with. For example, just like Kustom's girl, my ex freaked out every time I set a utensil on the counter or table (in fact everything he said reminds me so much of my ex, I wonder if it is the same person, lol). At first I tried reasoning with her about it from my perspective. You would think the fact that I was happy to cook dinner for us, which the majority of Asian husbands her age would never do, and that I was still alive after 20 years of this utensil behavior would increase the chance that she would just let the whole thing slide, but I may as well have asked someone to eat toliet water for soup. Obviously, utensil hygiene is not something to get divorced over. I simply use it as a light example of how desperately many people hang onto their cultural baggage. If someone cannot bring themselves to compromise over something so small when it gets them out of work, how can you expect them to compromise over serious issues like sexual activities or approriate male-female interactions.

Of course, you could have similar differences of opinion with anyone in any relationship regardless of their origin and have to deal with them. However, I would say there is a difference between could have and chances are you should start making your list of differences now.

Rant OFF

[stsparky]

I was in my early 20s she was close to 30. Certainly, she was more insecure than your wife apparenlty is, but her fear also had cultural roots. She would quote a Japanese saying to me: "You don't check your hair under and apple tree, and you don't tie your shoelaces in a watermelon patch."

Interesting. There are ways to deal with deflating anger - but we'll go into it later. Seems you're back on your feet now. Maybe you should look at a younger more secure woman?

This is excellent advice (http://go-fubar.com/mag_en/articles/31/) - on fighting with one's spouse. - Sparky

PS - the magic words are "gomen nasai - watashi no taido ga warukatta."

[General_Admission]

(BTW, what's wrong with fobs, General Admission? You certainly seem to want to come across as one w/ your Pucca avatar...oh my darling, please love pretty(?).)

Nothing. I was just kind of up-set because my FOB friend was cold to me that day and was telling me to "be nice" about something which I can't remember but must have been important to her. :confused: But today she was her same old coke addict self. I still can't understand how people can put that much energy into their facial expressions and body language 100% of the time without making it look fake or forced. Always the one to make you feel like the most important person in her life.

[stoningcrows]

....Once, she was sniffing tru my email account and found a couple of emails i sent to some girls...BEFORE I EVEN DATED HER. SHE made such a big issue about it i wanted to die that day. Sometimes i wonder if patience is indeed a virtue. Another time, she was singing alot, and ignoring what I was saying...almost in a rude way. So i got pissed about it, so i told her, "stop with it with my singing, it makes my ears want to shut themselves up". The girl didnt talk to me for 2 weeks ( we broke up).....



This I don't get... I would have said good bye the moment this happened. You know that nothing good is going to come out of this.

As to differing tastes between asians and causians, this should be quite obvious.

[raulramos3000]

Quist, in the relationship you explained, I think your girl was just incredibly insecure/controlling for whatever reason. I do think there's a certain degree of passive-aggressive behavior in Japanese culture since they're just less direct in general when it comes to black/white, yes/no sort of things, but I don't think you can blame your wife's crazy behavior on Japanese society.

I have plenty of friends with neurotic and needy girlfriends, and it's not just a Japanese trait, it's a trait that can apply to any number of wacked out ladies worldwide. Similarly, guys who bend over backwards to please a girl are common everywhere (whether it be watching a chick flick, splurging on some expensive item for the girl, or not going out with their friends, etc).

[BluZytrix]

I was wondering if there are any people here that really like the plain Japanese girl? I for onw have always been attracted to Japanese girls more than other races but don't let that deture other hot girls from coming along and saying hi. Anyway, after being in Japan almost 2 months now, I really can say that I have taken a liking to the regular Japanese girls that you see out in the outskirts of Tokyo. I live in Saitama, a suburb of Tokyo and see many girls that are much more normal compared to the cosmetic freaks you can find in Shibuya and such.

[KiwiKitty]

I tend to find personality more attractive in the long run, so I try not to let looks have much importance. But asian women... dunno. They do catch my eye, but I think that was because up until I was 19 or 20, I'd seen maybe 3 or 4 in person, so I think it's more that up until very recently anyway, I hadn't seen a lot and so they catch my eye. It doesn't help the japanese women I've met over the years have been exceedingly nice people; the closest to what people here are saying is the wife of a son of a friend of the family, and she was so painfully shy when they first moved back here... but now, she's like one of both our families.

I still find Kiwi/Aussie girls to be damned hot, though. And I know that nothing's going to happen with anyone who's not one or the other (well, if I convert to Islam, I have it made) so it's a nice daydream, but that's all it is.

[Kustom]

I'll try a slightly different take on the issue of cultural differences... I haven't thought it through, so tell me what you think.

We all know that compromising is key to a succesful relationship. Westerners know it. The Japanese know it too.

How does compromise happen in a Western couple? It is usually brought by discussion or conflict. None of those ways really apply in a Japanese couple. In Japan, compromise is never the fruits of conflict: conflict is the end of the relationship, things should never escalate that far or it will be too late to mend them. Discussion is tricky; anything that sounds like a complaint will be taken personally and even the most casual comment will be second/third/fourth guessed to find out what it really means.

This is because in Japan, compromise is a natural process that happens because each person is aware about the feelings of others. Your duty in a couple is to be aware of your significant other's feelings and worries and make sure you're not hurting her. That means compromise won't come from a direct interaction; it's something you're supposed to come up with on your own.

A Japanese person might go as far as to give you clues that something is wrong for you to adjust your behavior. More often than not, Westerners will miss those important clues because they aren't used to second-guessing meanings. This leads to frustration on the Japanese side: "he doesn't care about me/disregards my feelings". As the Japanese culture avoids conflict, the fight is postponed until the cup is full, when anger pours out it can be quite violent and hard to stop...

This is a way I find to describe in very theoretical terms what can go wrong in a Westerner/Japanese relationship. I still have those fights with my girlfriend, so far so good we could overcome it and I learnt to deal with it much better. But by any means, do not forget that an inter-cultural relationship is hard work. Love unfortunately doesn't flatten everything up, you still have to work at it and give in to some customs you disaprove of else it won't last.

PS: For all those who said foreigners in Japan get the ugly girls, as far as I know that's BS even by Japanese standards. I can give you examples of my many friends who date stunningly beautiful Japanese girls, a couple of them are actresses and models in Japan...

But more importantly just consider the reality: the only girls that can interact with foreigners will be those who can speak a foreign language (most gaijin don't speak Japanese) or hang around in clubs where verbal communication isn't an issue. Thus "gaijin-loving girls" range from highly educated open minded girls who studied abroad to roppongi-style Vuitton-toting whores. (both of my girlfriends where of the former type, thank you very much!)

Japanese people are quick to stereotype about the later (and there are truly quite a lot of gaijin who don't mind those girls), but the fact is that being beautiful hardly prevents you from dating foreigners in Japan...

[quist]

Quist, in the relationship you explained, I think your girl was just incredibly insecure/controlling for whatever reason. I do think there's a certain degree of passive-aggressive behavior in Japanese culture since they're just less direct in general when it comes to black/white, yes/no sort of things, but I don't think you can blame your wife's crazy behavior on Japanese society.

I have plenty of friends with neurotic and needy girlfriends, and it's not just a Japanese trait, it's a trait that can apply to any number of wacked out ladies worldwide. Similarly, guys who bend over backwards to please a girl are common everywhere (whether it be watching a chick flick, splurging on some expensive item for the girl, or not going out with their friends, etc).

I accept that neurotic, needyness is not a Japanese specific traits nor even a female specific trait, but extreme concern for "face" is a traditional Japanese trait. If you are extremely concerned about your "face" then it is very difficult to not become both a controlled and a controlling person. Obviously not all Japanese are this way, and the ones who normally would go out of their way to date a gaijin may be even less so. However, I believe most Japanese do develop authoritarian personalities while most American's do not.

Japanese also highly prize sacrificing yourself for the group, which naturally includes family. So, while a Japanese man might do certain things without being asked and feel more manly and be praised for his actions, many American men in the same situation would have to be asked/told it was important and then feel emasculated and whipped under the same circumstances.

Furthermore, it is nearly impossible to compromise with someone who is concerned about face above nearly everything else. There is just no way for two people to disagree and work out a solution that works for them when one party includes the hypothetical opinion of a thousand people not in the room that were not raised to think the same way you do.

So, are Japanese women "that bad." No, but most are "that different" from us. My original story is kind of a cathartic rant based on Kustom's excellent points. So, I hope Kustom's points remain the take home message and don't get lost in the mix.

[stsparky]

Thing is - to me - the glasses wearing "plain jane" is super hot - regardless of where she is from. As long as she isn't mentally "blonde" and capable of unmanning a charging bull. As to Japanese women - my experience is the best aren't high maintenance attention buying machines. - Sparky

[jindojim]

Kustom has a lot to say on this subject and raises good points in his 'magnum opus' but I want to interject a little bit. First off, compromising is not 'the' key to a relationship. Good relationships work because the two are as similar as possible (except for a few traits like dominant/submissive where opposites match well), thus eliminating the need to compromise in many situations. Cross-cultural couples face a serious obstacle by lacking the assumed similarities that couples within the same culture have. We are all 'Westernized' to some extent, and they are all 'Japanized' to some extent.

The problem is that cross-cultural couples have to find a balance between the two cultures, or adjust themselves to become either completely 'Western' or 'Japanese'. Establishing a balance between the two cultures is quite a challenge, considering they have numerous dissimilarities. However, since culture plays a larger part in the Japanese than in the West, Japanese women are less likely or even capable of becoming 100% 'Westernized', especially if they have never left Japan. So they may put a lot more pressure on their partner to act in ways they would assume natural for Japanese guys. This is complicated because the guy often enters into the relationship with the mindset that he will have to act differently from girls in his own culture to suit the Japanese girl. So most likely, the guy is often the one doing most of the cultural compromising. The exceptions are guys who are dating a girl who has been abroad, since they will probably have some cultural compromise reciprocated.

To make matters worse, the Japanese girl will imply things a lot more than say them directly. Thus, the guy has to guess what she wants without being explicitly told. The Japanese use conflict only as a last resort, but it can often be monumental. In the past, Japanese couples used to avoid confrontation by simply leading their own seperate lives with as little contact as possible. But these days, with the number of job layoffs, husbands and wifes are being forced into contact with each other, often leading to violent conflicts. Add to these cultural obstacles the typical difficulties caused by any relationship, and the chances that the relationship will succeed in the long run are frankly slim without a great degree of focus and work.

I'd like to add this list of reasons Japanese girls date foreigners.
1) Fetish or just curiosity
2) Dissatisfied with Japanese men (their actions, look, etc.)
3) Unable to attract Japanese men (looks, men are intimidated by her)
4) Enjoy the attention of being with a foreigner
5) Actually feel a connection with the guy despite him being foreign
6) Combination of above

Most Japanese girls won't date foreigners tho, so you have to work with the population that you're given. Just know it won't be a 'typical Japanese relationship'. Whatever that means.

[Komachi Angel]

Just a slight side-comment.

It has been mentioned several times here that the girls you see with foreign guys are generally not lookers, but when you think about it, the same applies for the guys as well. Sometimes guys who would be considered very unattractive in their home country can strike it very well in Japan, but nothing is thought of that. Door swings both ways, eh.

[Wintermute911]

Just a slight side-comment.

It has been mentioned several times here that the girls you see with foreign guys are generally not lookers, but when you think about it, the same applies for the guys as well. Sometimes guys who would be considered very unattractive in their home country can strike it very well in Japan, but nothing is thought of that. Door swings both ways, eh.
All statements concerning attractiveness should be qualified with pictures. I can't even count the number of times someone has bragged about dating a "asian super model" only to see the pictures he posts ends up being of a typical patpong thai hooker. Of course this is on a different forum concerning a different asian country but the discussion is really similar. Generally when people talk about scales of attractiveness I find that it's heavily distorted when it comes to asian women in asian countries.

[Kustom]

First off, compromising is not 'the' key to a relationship. Good relationships work because the two are as similar as possible (except for a few traits like dominant/submissive where opposites match well), thus eliminating the need to compromise in many situations. Cross-cultural couples face a serious obstacle by lacking the assumed similarities that couples within the same culture have. We are all 'Westernized' to some extent, and they are all 'Japanized' to some extent.

The problem is that cross-cultural couples have to find a balance between the two cultures, or adjust themselves to become either completely 'Western' or 'Japanese'. Establishing a balance between the two cultures is quite a challenge, considering they have numerous dissimilarities. However, since culture plays a larger part in the Japanese than in the West, Japanese women are less likely or even capable of becoming 100% 'Westernized', especially if they have never left Japan. So they may put a lot more pressure on their partner to act in ways they would assume natural for Japanese guys. This is complicated because the guy often enters into the relationship with the mindset that he will have to act differently from girls in his own culture to suit the Japanese girl. So most likely, the guy is often the one doing most of the cultural compromising. The exceptions are guys who are dating a girl who has been abroad, since they will probably have some cultural compromise reciprocated.

To make matters worse, the Japanese girl will imply things a lot more than say them directly. Thus, the guy has to guess what she wants without being explicitly told. The Japanese use conflict only as a last resort, but it can often be monumental. In the past, Japanese couples used to avoid confrontation by simply leading their own seperate lives with as little contact as possible. But these days, with the number of job layoffs, husbands and wifes are being forced into contact with each other, often leading to violent conflicts. Add to these cultural obstacles the typical difficulties caused by any relationship, and the chances that the relationship will succeed in the long run are frankly slim without a great degree of focus and work.

I'd like to add this list of reasons Japanese girls date foreigners.
1) Fetish or just curiosity
2) Dissatisfied with Japanese men (their actions, look, etc.)
3) Unable to attract Japanese men (looks, men are intimidated by her)
4) Enjoy the attention of being with a foreigner
5) Actually feel a connection with the guy despite him being foreign
6) Combination of above

Most Japanese girls won't date foreigners tho, so you have to work with the population that you're given. Just know it won't be a 'typical Japanese relationship'. Whatever that means.


Excellent points, all of 'em

To the poster above: I'll PM pictures of my ex and current girlfriend if you find a fair judge for good looks, but I'm not posting them on a forum :rolleyes:

[Kanzetsu]

Most Japanese girls won't date foreigners tho, so you have to work with the population that you're given. Just know it won't be a 'typical Japanese relationship'. Whatever that means.

I can understand that to some extent, but I wouldn't take it that way... if say a girl of a more traditional element was being a bit snubbish to me, that she was simply not interested in foreigners (she might just be indifferent), some may just be sceptical and need some convincing ;P
Like anyone else in the world, some girls arent convinced untill you put some effort in.

And well, nothing worth it's easy ey?
Of course, I can only say this in a general basis, i've not experienced the culture and dunno if this element of human behaviour is completely different there =\

[Kustom]

This is a friend's theory but it fits most such couples I know.

If a Japanese girl is serious about you, meaning she's thinking about marriage (if she isn't you are liable to get dumped sooner or later for Japanese marriage material), it puts her under a lot of pressure. As has been repeated in this thread, Japanese people tend to think gaijin loving girls must have some hidden flaws that make them unsuitable for Japanese men. On top of that stigma, her family or friends might not understand her decision (unless she's past her marriage expiration date). Finally, she may have to go to a foreign country where you will be her only support, and change her habits for your strange ways.

So the stakes are very high for her, especially if she's under 30 and her marriage clock is still ticking... She's betting everything a Japanese woman has on you, therefore regardless of her natural inclination, she gets more demanding and controlling than she would be under normal circumstances.

[Chinpokomon]

Kustom has a lot to say on this subject and raises good points in his 'magnum opus' but I want to interject a little bit. First off, compromising is not 'the' key to a relationship. Good relationships work because the two are as similar as possible (except for a few traits like dominant/submissive where opposites match well), thus eliminating the need to compromise in many situations. Cross-cultural couples face a serious obstacle by lacking the assumed similarities that couples within the same culture have. We are all 'Westernized' to some extent, and they are all 'Japanized' to some extent.

Compromising is of course important in a relationship.
Relationships where both partners are very similar end all the time.


The problem is that cross-cultural couples have to find a balance between the two cultures, or adjust themselves to become either completely 'Western' or 'Japanese'. Establishing a balance between the two cultures is quite a challenge, considering they have numerous dissimilarities. However, since culture plays a larger part in the Japanese than in the West, Japanese women are less likely or even capable of becoming 100% 'Westernized', especially if they have never left Japan. So they may put a lot more pressure on their partner to act in ways they would assume natural for Japanese guys. This is complicated because the guy often enters into the relationship with the mindset that he will have to act differently from girls in his own culture to suit the Japanese girl. So most likely, the guy is often the one doing most of the cultural compromising. The exceptions are guys who are dating a girl who has been abroad, since they will probably have some cultural compromise reciprocated.

To make matters worse, the Japanese girl will imply things a lot more than say them directly. Thus, the guy has to guess what she wants without being explicitly told. The Japanese use conflict only as a last resort, but it can often be monumental. In the past, Japanese couples used to avoid confrontation by simply leading their own seperate lives with as little contact as possible. But these days, with the number of job layoffs, husbands and wifes are being forced into contact with each other, often leading to violent conflicts. Add to these cultural obstacles the typical difficulties caused by any relationship, and the chances that the relationship will succeed in the long run are frankly slim without a great degree of focus and work.

I'd say that your chances of success are much greater if you speak the language. I think it eases parental relations, helps to minimize miscommunications, and helps you to understand Japanese culture in general.


I'd like to add this list of reasons Japanese girls date foreigners.
1) Fetish or just curiosity
2) Dissatisfied with Japanese men (their actions, look, etc.)
3) Unable to attract Japanese men (looks, men are intimidated by her)
4) Enjoy the attention of being with a foreigner
5) Actually feel a connection with the guy despite him being foreign
6) Combination of above

Maybe for dating, this list is true, but as with any relationship, it all comes down to #5.


Most Japanese girls won't date foreigners tho, so you have to work with the population that you're given. Just know it won't be a 'typical Japanese relationship'. Whatever that means.
Why do you say most Japanese girls won't date foreigners?

[Azrael]

^I'm pretty sure I posted about this before, but...

1. Language barrier. Most foreigners here don't really understand Japanese. She may not be a pro at English. Will you to really be able to understand each other?

2. There is the perception that foreigners here will only stay a few years before going home. ...Which is right for the most part. Unless you're willing to take her with you, and she's willing to pack up and move to a foreign country, your relationship will have a time limit. Your average Japanese doesn't date for fun, as most want to get married by or around their mid 20's.

3. What will the parents think? Their parents grew up in a generation with far less foreigners than there are now (and now is pretty scarce) so they may not be open to suddenly having a Gaijin in-law. This isn't something exclusive to Japan though, I know lots of people in America who'd be a bit hesistant to introduce their inter-racial partner to the parents.

There may be more, but those are the big three I think.

[stsparky]

I get away with a lot because I refuse to listen the in-laws bitch and moan. I play with the kids and am called "kindly" - but I made a commitment to get married and stay that way.

If you follow my path I've already posted the magic words. They really work. - Sparky

[jindojim]

Chinpokomon: Well, I was thinking about compromising with you, but no, I am sticking to the veracity of all my points.

Similarities are what hold relationships together, especially in personality. The constant need to compromise weakens the relationship, cuz both parties never fully get what they want.

Speaking Japanese only adds to you being the one forced to compromise and act 'Japanese' to suit her.

We'd like to think every relationship (isn't dating a relationship?) comes down to #5, but that's simply not ALWAYS the case in a cross-cultural relationship. Or even a same cultural relationship for that matter.

And Az finished off.

[Chinpokomon]

I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind, so I'll just answer the original question.
No, they're not that bad.

[Ichisan]

My 2 cents:

I wouldn't say Japanese girls are all that bad but nor would I say they are all that good. I mainly notice that they tend to be shorter and with uglier faces than Korean girls but tend to have more in the way of bust and bootie, which is definitely a plus. After so much time in Korea I appreciate curves, which means I catch myself staring longingly at non-Asian women or bigger, curvier Asian women sometimes these days.

In Korea, FYI, the stereotype of Japanese women is that they are ugly but easy. I have already stated my opinion on looks. There is alleged to be not much of a taboo against pre-marital sex in Japan but a.) I couldn't say if that's true and b.) the Korean attitude is hypocritical (and c.) 'easy' has always seemed like it ought to be a compliment to me ^^).

By the way Japanese female stars have fans in Korea too but still most would laugh at the idea that Japanese women in general are beautiful.

White women stand out to me a lot more these days and Asian women have to be correspondingly more special to stand out at all. When I go home to the UK I find myself looking at women a lot more critically, which I guess I've learned from Korean culture. I also look at couples and find myself thinking 'why is a guy like that with an ugly girl like her?' - which is worrying cos it means I've become more shallow over looks, and, possibly, that while my standards of female beauty have gone up, my standards of male attractiveness have sunk in equal measure.

So I am happy and even proud to state I do not have yellow fever. On the other hand I think there is some truth to the generalisation that Asian men and White men find different things attractive in women. I'm sure one could make other broad generalisations too, about American mens' taste versus French mens' taste, for instance.

So Korean men, like Japanese (and unlike me), generally go for the cute and shy rather than the hot or sexy. Again, I can't speak for Japanese girls but the whole cute-and-shy thing is fake, fake, fake in Korea. I mean it will disappear after marriage, kids and/or at around age 30-35 to be replaced by a tough-as-old-boots attitude. I have no idea whether that applies at all in Japan, but suspect the national characters may differ quite a lot in that as in other matters.

[Wintermute911]

So I am happy and even proud to state I do not have yellow fever. On the other hand I think there is some truth to the generalisation that Asian men and White men find different things attractive in women. I'm sure one could make other broad generalisations too, about American mens' taste versus French mens' taste, for instance.

I'd say there's a lot of truth in it i've been able to observe what kind of girls each group goes for in a few different asian countries. In thailand most white guys seemed to like the darker girls who have that "look" you know..the long legs and big busts. The face didn't seem to matter that much because 3 attributes stood out the most bust, dark skin, and long legs basically porno hot.

On the otherhand the asian guys did seem to go for a different type, either the pale complexioned "good girl" types or pop star lookalikes. They all had a nice complexion, pretty face, but sometimes the ass and chest was nonexistant. My thai-american buddy went out with a very pretty thai girl (like one of those girls that models facial products) but she definitely lacked what you would call "T&A" to put it crudely.

Personally, i'd say it varies with me but I do prefer the pretty and understated looks which I think goes along with the asian guy preference more.

So Korean men, like Japanese (and unlike me), generally go for the cute and shy rather than the hot or sexy. Again, I can't speak for Japanese girls but the whole cute-and-shy thing is fake, fake, fake in Korea. I mean it will disappear after marriage, kids and/or at around age 30-35 to be replaced by a tough-as-old-boots attitude. I have no idea whether that applies at all in Japan, but suspect the national characters may differ quite a lot in that as in other matters.
Korean women are known for their nasty tempers and materialism. I don't think there are very many asian women out there these days who fit into the western stereotype of submissive and ideal as a housewife. Anyone who was raised by an asian mom knows that more often than not they control the cash flow and everything else in the household once they reach a certain comfort level. This might explain why I haven't seen many foreigner/asian woman relationships last past 40+.

[Ichisan]

Yes, quite. 'Submissive' is misleading. Although the wife 'controlling' the cash flow just means both husband and wife submit to the socially prescribed norm of a life of sacrifice. He lives to work and save, and she lives to work and save; neither have freedom and managing money is yet another household chore she assumes so that he can concentrate solely on work.

[jindojim]

Seoul...basically the city of plastic surgery. I'm not going to include the rest of Korea cuz Seoul culture is as distinct as Tokyo culture in Japan, if not more. Here, you find practitioners quite openly, and their offices look like any other neon-lit store. The double-eyelid surgery has become quite standard there now and is relatively inexpensive. But it's not overdone to the point where they look bug-eyed like some Japanese girls, so it still looks somewhat looks natural. In Seoul, girls have to be beautiful (and they are), or they won't get too far in life (unless they're smart). Everything is so shallow there, and some girls are very two-faced too by putting on a huge exaggerated cute act to attract guys, but later become increasingly demanding, especially after marriage. Not to mention, they are, very frankly, HUGE cockteases. Virginity matters for Korean guys, and some guys will end a relationship just cuz he finds out his gf isn't a virgin. I could go on and on about Korean girls, but I don't want to. But, I do think they are generally prettier than Japanese cuz they looks more naturally Asian than artificial. And as pointed out before, the face and demeanor are the keys to beauty for Asian guys rather than the body and 'easiness'.

I want to mention another thing about Japanese girls that Ichisan reminded me about. Japanese girls have a time in their lives from around adolescence to marriage known as the shojo period. A similar period exists for guys but ends once they have a job. Here, they can indulge in being as cute and childish as they want. They happily go about buying cute things, doing cute things, and looking cute. It's also a time for experimentation too and bending social norms. However, all this ends with marriage. They are expected to give up whatever deviance they had and conform to Japanese standards. So the cute and bubbly Japanese girl disappears once she's married and is replaced by a real housewife. Their whole life revolves around the husband and children and the domicile. It's a hard lifestyle, so some girls don't want to get married and try to continue living the shojo lifestyle into their thirties. But most girls prepare for marriage around 25.

[aargon]

Japanese girls arent bad.

They are just misunderstood. ;)

and single white guys in japan.... yes they reaally are THAT bad :p