I need a new computer.

[Kyletherealninja]

I've had my Apple iBook G4 since early 2006, and it's really starting to show its age. It feels like it's almost literally falling apart, and it's dreadfully slow, even on things like the internet, Openoffice, iTunes, and other applications. I need a new notebook, but I don't know where to look.

Because I need to save my money I can't afford to spend a fortune - I'd like to keep it roughly $700 or less, making a Mac out of the question. I don't do any performance-intensive activities like graphics programs or games, so I don't need a super high end computer. Just one that does the basic stuff like internet, music, and watching movies at a good speed and looks reasonable. Because I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere, something non-clunky would be a benefit. Any suggestions?

[ミュー]

I've had my Apple iBook G4 since early 2006, and it's really starting to show its age. It feels like it's almost literally falling apart, and it's dreadfully slow, even on things like the internet, Openoffice, iTunes, and other applications. I need a new notebook, but I don't know where to look.

Because I need to save my money I can't afford to spend a fortune - I'd like to keep it roughly $700 or less, making a Mac out of the question. I don't do any performance-intensive activities like graphics programs or games, so I don't need a super high end computer. Just one that does the basic stuff like internet, music, and watching movies at a good speed and looks reasonable. Because I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere, something non-clunky would be a benefit. Any suggestions?
A used Powerbook G4. They're like what you have but faster and last considerably longer in mobile use.

[SlickWilly440]

Just because your computer is running slower than usual doesn't mean you need to get a new laptop. The reasons usually lye within more processes running on the O.S. than necessary, disk fragmentation, and such.

Have you tried installing more RAM in your laptop? Running disk defragmentation? Removing programs that you no longer use? Cleaning out your registry? I'm not familiar with the MAC O.S.'s but I'm sure there are free programs out there that can do those tasks.

Hope that helps.

[mugen]

I agree with Willy. If you have a disc with OSX on it, the best solution is to format your hard drive and reinstall OSX. But like Willy said, there are other ways to get your computer to run faster.

[SlickWilly440]

^
Well I guess if one doesn't mind backing up all their data, reformatting and re-installing their OS, then re installing all their programs...then yes that is the best way to go. But sooner or later that same problem of sluggishness will reappear, so learning how to maintain an O.S. from being sluggish will serve better in the long run.

[xtine]

Because of the new unibody all aluminum Macbooks / Macbook Pros, you can find older Mac notebook models on the cheaper side. I recently sold my Macbook Pro (15", dual core 2) for $800 to a friend, and people on craigslist were trying to barter me at that price as well. So I'm pretty sure you can at least get an older model Macbook for 700 or under. Doesn't hurt to ask if your school has any specials on education priced Macs.

[Plekto]

Or just get a linux or bsd laptop. OS X is really BSD unix with a fancy front-end/desktop. Just as stable and very quick, since you can toss it on any old Intel or AMD equipped laptop for lots less money.(or spend more and get tons better speed)

[darighaz]

^

Dont do that. If you're not tech savvy such that you need to ask about this on a forum, *nix will just piss you off more often than its worth.

The fancy front-end/desktop is what makes macs worthwhile :p

Just check around w/ dell/craigslist/walmart for compys on the cheap.

[Plekto]

I honestly see very little difference for the typical user between BSD unix with a generic shell on it and BSD unix with Apple's shell on it. Not if all they are doing is typical web and video and email and so on.

Yes, Apple is slick and shiny, but it's also the most expensive option out there. And a Dell or similar on Craigslist will be saddled with Windows, which is a dozen times worse for such a machine than running some form of unix.

As you said, the fancy interface is what makes Macs worthwhile. But if you can't afford one, Windows is a massive step down. Too much, IMO, especially if you're already running OS X. I know of many people who have moved from OS X to BSD or Linux who are happy but not a single one who moved to Windows who didn't loathe every minute of it.

note - you could also run Linux if you want. It's gotten pretty easy to install and run lately. And it's free, so it doesn't hurt one bit to try it out. Download the bootable CD and tweak with it. Also, the more *ix you know, the better off you are in the job market these days. Sure, it might take a few months to get up to speed, but when you do, you'll be well beyond where you once where in computing skills.

edit - you could also try this out with your current laptop(after you back it up of course to be safe). It might be quick enough afterwards to not require an upgrade.

[Swede]

Kyle, I'm ninja-ing your thread.

So, I want to upgrade my computer basically so that I can run current games a bit more smoothly. Right now I'm running on an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 4gb pc3200 ram, and a 512mb geforce 7950gt. This is what I'm thinking of upgrading to, since upgrading my processor basically means I need new memory and a new mobo anyway:

MSI X58 Platinum SLI LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130220)
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202)
EVGA 896-P3-1257-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 Superclocked Edition 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130433)
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193)

Any thoughts or recommendations on maybe different stuff to go with? I really don't want to spend much more than what I have on there.

[Jetsetlemming]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114617

[Fumi]

Do you need a large screen? If you can live with a 10" screen, you can get a netbook with 1GB RAM and 160 HDD for less than $500.

I just bought a Samsung NC10 and have been very happy about it.

[darighaz]

Netbooks feel like something people will later regret buying (gut feeling), but hell go for it. Cant hurt :)

[blank slate]

FUCK Newegg, I just had the worst RMA experience with them dealing with my new notebook.

[Jetsetlemming]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4008406&Sku=A180-8000

[Plekto]

Kyle, I'm ninja-ing your thread.
No fair!

Heh - but about your question...

Most of your current system is actually just fine. You'll not see much difference compared to just getting the better video card(s) from your proposed build and dropping that in.

[Swede]

Really? Hm. I was just curious, cause as bullshit as it may be, the windows tool where it basically turns game requirements into a smaller number scale shows my processor as my bottleneck, with the graphics card being pretty much the best part about my system. Maybe I should just pick up the video card for now and see if there's a performance increase, and if that's not good enough buy the other stuff? I do like the sounds of that, as then I can hold off until the other stuff is either cheaper or something better inevitably comes along.

Also, I'm a total liar, and for some reason wrote down that I have 4 gigs when I only have 3 >_>

[Plekto]

It depends. If you're killing a dual-core AMD processor, you'll likely be killing a quad-core Intel as well. Very very few apps actually do make use of two cores even now. Quad core support is virtually unheard of other than a few specific apps that are almost all on the 64 bit versions of Windows.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2008-q1-2008/Quake-IV,389.html
That said, you will see a big improvement with that CPU, it turns out, due to the huge cache on it. I thought you were talking about the Athalon 6800.. My bad. I'm not up to speed on AMD lately and didn't realize you were talking a two generation old design...

Q: what's the fastest CPU you can toss in your current motherboard?

[Swede]

Honestly, it just isn't worth it, because it's literally where I'd be paying more for a slower processor than I would on something newer, if I could even find it, because nobody makes them anymore :(

It's socket 939 if that gives you any idea. Basically nonexistent now.

[Plekto]

Ah, then you should probably move on. Of course, it can't hurt to try your existing video card on the new machine. Possibly save a couple of hundred of dollars right there.

Oh - go to this site and ask around if you want it to also be quiet:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/

[SlickWilly440]

FUCK Newegg, I just had the worst RMA experience with them dealing with my new notebook.

Would you mind sharing you experience with us if you don't mind?

[Jetsetlemming]

Swede: If you're willing to spend the money on those components, then go for it. Random was talking about a friend of his who bought a similar computer recently and put it together, and they all went over his house and marveled at how fantastic it ran Crysis all maxed out. One thing I would say- go with 6GB of RAM instead of 4 GB, as long as you're getting a 64-bit copy of Vista. The i7 lines are made to work with three channels of RAM. They can support two, but they're made for three.

[kwad8]

I also have an Apple ibook G4 with a 14in screen and I also purchased it in early 2006. In fact it was almost exactly 3 years ago. Mine is still going strong. Of course when i bought it I maxed out all its specs getting as much HD space and Ram as able to be put in an iBook. The only issue I am running into now is battery life because it is so old it doesn't hold a charge for very long. So it am curious why yours is running slow. What are the specs on your iBook? Oh BTW I am running Leopard instead of Tiger.

[D-pad]

Swede, don't fall for intel's money game. Save yourself a ridiculous amount of money and go with an AMD Phenom II Quad-core Black Edition. It is by far the most powerful processor for the buck. Not to mention all your other upgrades will be cheaper and you'll have a wider selection.

Seriously though, I can run ANY game on the market maxed out and I run a AMD Athalon 64 X2 4600+. This is helped out extremely by my GPU (NVidea GeForce 9600GT), but seriously, those two together cost me like...300.00?

Btw, I never type anything this long, so some sort of responce would be nice.

[SlickWilly440]

Btw, I never type anything this long, so some sort of responce would be nice.

Okay, I'll tell you guys about my tower (Blue X-Dreamer Case), that I still have from 2003 and haven't upgraded since.

3.00 GHz Pentium 4 Processor w/ HT Technology
128 mb Nvidia ????fx.
1gb of kingston Ram
60gb hdd + 320gb external hdd
DFI Lan Party Pro Mobo
CD-RW Burner
DVD-ROM Drive
DVD+/-R 4x Burner
420W Powersupply
PCI Slot Fan
Belkin Wireless Card
ETC

It still runs Counter-Strike 1.6 with all high settings and handles all my other computing needs.

We have come to an age of computing where upgrading often is unnecessary for the general user.

[stsparky]

OP: Apple is always the best bet for school bc Macs tend to last longer and be less buggy. The Apple Online Store will always have a link reasonable deals on the bottom left of the first page. Though I think backing up and re-installing everything will solve your immediate problem. Getting your data off the internal HDD would also help.

As to the poster with the 14 inch iBook. Get a new battery. $130 and you should be good for another 3 years.

My niece is crazy happy with her new shiny MacBook. She says she's never seen Vista so stable.

[Swede]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think my plan of action for now is going to be to buy that video card, and if I'm still not satisfied with the performance than I'll order the other parts. :innocent:

If I do end up getting the other parts I'll follow your advice on the memory JSL, thanks.

[blank slate]

Would you mind sharing you experience with us if you don't mind?Sure. I bought a new notebook from them, About 2 days after I got it I began to hear popping noises coming from the computer whenever I would shut it down, plus I heard clicking noises coming from the harddrive (not the normal hdd noise, either). Then one of the usb ports stopped working, as did the wifi. I sent it in to them as an RMA. I had to wait 3 weeks for them to finally get back to me about it, only to be told that there was nothing wrong with it, and that I would be getting the same computer back.

I suppose all of the problems I encountered were just figments of my imagination....[/sarcasm]

[Plekto]

3.00 GHz Pentium 4 Processor w/ HT Technology
*Fine

128 mb Nvidia ????fx.
1gb of kingston Ram
*Not fine. Upgrade to at least a 256MB GDDR3 DX10 card. And The speed difference between 1 and 2gb in Windows is a good 30%, easily. No, really - drop extra ram in and watch it go loads faster.

60gb hdd + 320gb external hdd
*Put the swapfile/pagefile on the second drive. Easy speed boost. Think of it as dual-core for your memory, since your drive can't thrash on its pagefile and load data at the same time if they're on the same drive.

[D-pad]

Just curious swede, are you still going with intel?

[Swede]

Just curious swede, are you still going with intel?

For the moment, I'm not going with anyone. I'm hoping that the video card will give me a satisfactory performance increase, and then I'll be able to hold off on the other parts for a little while longer. If I do have to get a new processor, I'm probably going to do a bit more research, though right now all signs seem to be pointing towards intel's i7 line. I'm really looking for something that will last long term, as I kind of messed that up on my last build, as they basically didn't make anything else of this socket type after I bought, which limited my upgrade options.

[kwad8]

TO Stsparky:

Yea I know. I intend to get a new battery one of these days. I am trying to milk the one I have for as long as possible. :D However as soon as I can afford it i am going to get a new macbook. So i will have one mac to use at home and one to travel with plus other fun stuff.

[stsparky]

TO Stsparky: Yea I know. I intend to get a new battery one of these days. I am trying to milk the one I have for as long as possible. :D However as soon as I can afford it i am going to get a new macbook. So i will have one mac to use at home and one to travel with plus other fun stuff.
Bingo! Never hurts to ask for the Student discount either.

[D-pad]

bit more research

I agree with just grabbing the gpu and seeing what happens, but I did some quick research and when AMD does go over to the AM3 socket, it will be compatible with AM2/AM2+ motherboards.

[Swede]

I agree with just grabbing the gpu and seeing what happens, but I did some quick research and when AMD does go over to the AM3 socket, it will be compatible with AM2/AM2+ motherboards.

Interesting, I'll definitely keep them in mind when I do decide to pick up the other parts.

[Jetsetlemming]

Don't go with AMD, the current AMD line is untrustworthy bullshit that's more expensive and less capable than the Intel line. AMD's focus was to make a bunch of shitty cores all stuck together and rely on multi-threading, and if you know anything about the current state of windows apps you'll know that's a bad idea.
The Core2Duo slot lasted us a good few years. There's a good chance the i7's new slot will as well. Don't take a shit processor for the promise of maybe possibly a mobo compatible with future shit.

[stsparky]

Don't go with AMD, the current AMD line is ... less capable than the Intel line. ...There's a good chance the i7's new slot will as well. Don't take a shit processor for the promise of maybe possibly a mobo compatible with future shit.

So off the shelf from Tiger - how would you build a Gamer/Graphic Workstation rig?

[Jetsetlemming]

Core 2 Quad Q6600, Core2 DDR2 mobo that supports 16GB, 4GB of DDR2, Geforce 9800GT, 500GB Hard drive, DVD-RW. Total cost ~$650. I wouldn't shell out for the i7 yet. It's probably a smarter idea, but I'm dirt poor. Similarly with getting a G9800 instead of a GTX280, and DDR2 instead of DDR3.

[qwert]

I like how the "Macs aren't buggy" or "they just work" memes have stuck around. Apple is pretty good at marketing, but my real life experiences have been that there isn't a difference, unless you are refering to the lack of people writing malware for macs.

A computer gets a job done. If you can get that job done for less money then good for you.

Then again, it wasn't until after highschool that I realized why its stupid to pay more than $20 for a pair of jeans.

Unless of course you are the person who considers pressing the window key + R and typing www.outpostnine.com or iexplore www.outpostnine.com an advanced user function.

edit:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4008406&Sku=A180-8000

Small notebooks are awesome for taking notes with. I don't have one that small, but it would be great to have one of those just for taking notes in class.

[D-pad]

Don't go with AMD, the current AMD line is untrustworthy bullshit that's more expensive and less capable than the Intel line. AMD's focus was to make a bunch of shitty cores all stuck together and rely on multi-threading, and if you know anything about the current state of windows apps you'll know that's a bad idea.
The Core2Duo slot lasted us a good few years. There's a good chance the i7's new slot will as well. Don't take a shit processor for the promise of maybe possibly a mobo compatible with future shit.

How in the world can you say AMD is more expensive than intel?

Phenom II Black Edition-229.00
Multi-Core-Quad-Core
Name-Phenom II X4 940
Operating Frequency-3.0GHz
Hyper Transports-3600MHz
L1 Cache-4 x 128KB
L2 Cache-4 x 512KB
L3 Cache-6MB
Manufacturing Tech-45 nm
Voltage-0.875-1.5V
Thermal Power-125W

Core2 Quad Q9400-229.99
Multi-Core-Quad-Core
Name-Core2 Quad Q9400
Operating Frequency-2.66GHz
FSB-1333MHz
L2 Cache-6MB
Manufacturing Tech-45 nm
Voltage-0.85V – 1.3625V
Thermal Power-95W

That is intel's similarly prices core. Slower and it's not an i7.

[stsparky]

I like how the "Macs aren't buggy" or "they just work" memes have stuck around. Apple is pretty good at marketing, but my real life experiences have been that there isn't a difference, unless you are refering to the lack of people writing malware for macs. ...
It was true in the 80's through the 90's and it's true now. Unless you're in the position of having no choice - a Macintosh will last longer and be able to stay current with new OSes. An Intel Mac can run Linux and Vista natively. The reverse is rarely true.

[darighaz]

Thats because the makers of OSX dont want anyone running it on anything besides their own hardware. Because if they had to support a wide open market, theyd break. Often.

And its true of linux because outside of servers, its an irrelevent OS. Noone cares about it.

[stsparky]

What's Apple's market share compared to Dell's? Or Lenovo's? Polling customers about their computer buying preferences over the next 90 days, ChangeWave Research (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9831586-17.html) found that 29 percent of respondents claimed they would be buying a Mac over that period, while 24 percent will buy HP desktops and 31 percent will buy Dell desktops. Which system is more baffling to the entry-level user? Most new PCs now can't do what Macs have done well for the last 6 years. This seems balanced: Link (http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045)

Again this sums ups what I see from PC enthusiasts:
“ ... I’ve just discovered I can buy a Yugo instead of a Ferrari and save tons of money. I’m not going to buy a Mac next time, I’ve found that I can buy a Vista powered Dell . . . They’re cheaper, you see. And I’ve also decided to eat corn meal mush instead of steak. Take that Mac owners. I showed you! ...”

[blank slate]

All I know is that when I talk with classmates who have macs, they always complain about things not being as mac friendly as they would like, and that next time they'll just pick up a machine with windows on it to avoid all of the hassle.

Of course, I just tell them that they could dual boot windows on the same mac machine, but they just look at me funny.

[darighaz]

What's Apple's market share compared to Dell's? Or Lenovo's? Polling customers about their computer buying preferences over the next 90 days, ChangeWave Research (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9831586-17.html) found that 29 percent of respondents claimed they would be buying a Mac over that period, while 24 percent will buy HP desktops and 31 percent will buy Dell desktops. Which system is more baffling to the entry-level user? Most new PCs now can't do what Macs have done well for the last 6 years. This seems balanced: Link (http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045)

Again this sums ups what I see from PC enthusiasts:
“ ... I’ve just discovered I can buy a Yugo instead of a Ferrari and save tons of money. I’m not going to buy a Mac next time, I’ve found that I can buy a Vista powered Dell . . . They’re cheaper, you see. And I’ve also decided to eat corn meal mush instead of steak. Take that Mac owners. I showed you! ...”

Was that in response to me or just neat info? WRT marketshare - If everyone is dualbooting their macs, then Windows should abolutly count in parts of that market share, as you're buying their OS.

[SlickWilly440]

Of course, I just tell them that they could dual boot windows on the same mac machine, but they just look at me funny.

Yeah, it seems like some people can't tell the difference between MAC O.S. software and the hardware that is labeled as MAC, and that the hardware components are just the same as machines that runs Microsoft O.S. meaning that Microsoft O.S. can run on MAC machine.

[qwert]

What's Apple's market share compared to Dell's? Or Lenovo's? Polling customers about their computer buying preferences over the next 90 days, ChangeWave Research (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-9831586-17.html) found that 29 percent of respondents claimed they would be buying a Mac over that period, while 24 percent will buy HP desktops and 31 percent will buy Dell desktops. Which system is more baffling to the entry-level user? Most new PCs now can't do what Macs have done well for the last 6 years. This seems balanced: Link (http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045)

Again this sums ups what I see from PC enthusiasts:
“ ... I’ve just discovered I can buy a Yugo instead of a Ferrari and save tons of money. I’m not going to buy a Mac next time, I’ve found that I can buy a Vista powered Dell . . . They’re cheaper, you see. And I’ve also decided to eat corn meal mush instead of steak. Take that Mac owners. I showed you! ...”

I'm not against macs. I would consider one as I like unix-like systems. I would like to get a mac and install linux on it if they didn't cost so much. The computer I used during my last two years of high school and my first two years in college ran strictly on linux until I swapped it with my mom for her laptop and she retired the desktop to the loft so she could buy a new laptop she could take with her around the house.

edit: and yes, I read about how the mac is only $50 more, but it comes with less and doesn't have nearly as good of a warranty.

[stsparky]

Do you see yourself as a typical enduser? What you're missing is you're not average.

[RoxFontaine]

"Hey, Kid! Stop all the downloadin'!"

[haterllnation]

Of course, I just tell them that they could dual boot windows on the same mac machine, but they just look at me funny.

True. Macs have it easy when it comes to this. Boot Camp is a great feature for dual booting and it comes with the OS. However, I prefer VMWare Fusion. I can't be hassled with spending little time rebooting to use one and doing so, again, to get back.

[qwert]

I'm actually typing this using a mac. They're pretty cool visually, but it is hard getting used to as all of the short cut keys and getting it to do what I want it to do quickly without having to use the help search is kind of annoying, but still, it is a nice OS. I still prefer Linux though.

[Plekto]

Crossover Mac also works, though it isn't free. It does a pretty good job of running apps without needing a full install.

[Swede]

Definitely gonna hold off on getting a new mobo and memory. Being able to run the crysis demo at high settings with no hitches is fine by me.