The First 100 Days Discussion

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

<Insert Universal Studios Intro Theme> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YCRh23Rg8c)

So Obama's inauguration was only on Tuesday and already he's gone through a few Executive Orders. He's signed orders to close Guantanamo Bay as well as other CIA black sites, along with ending torture (Or at least make it against White House policy). He's signed an executive order ending restrictions on abortion funding for certain groups as well and has essentially been working really hard to reverse a lot of what Bush's administration tried to get through. If the first few days are any indication, it looks like Obama will be a fairly active president.

Because of this I wanted to make a thread especially for it since the inauguration thread is starting to get boring. So here we go!

[Swede]

I saw this when I had to use IE to watch a netflix movie... Was curious if I was the only one who thought it sounded absolutely ludicrous.

Obama's Nonbeliever Nod Unsettles Some (http://news.aol.com/article/obamas-nonbeliever-nod-unsettles-some/316339)

[whispering]

The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

[Plekto]

I wonder how many Bush kept this early on. I'd say Obama is doing quite well for a politician. So far.

[bluestars87]

The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
Wow that's stupid.

Yes every president has delivered what they promised. :rolleyes:

[whispering]

Wow that's stupid.

Yes every president has delivered what they promised. :rolleyes:

Uhm, isnt that why its good we track their promises, so that they wount promise the moon from the sky :boggled:

Are you saying we should swallow all lies, because politicians are supposed to lie?

[ミュー]

You can't please everyone with the truth

However, one's duty as a politician is to gain support of the electorate, which is essentially everyone.

I expect Obama to work for the American people. So far, so good in my opinion. I think his great speaking ability can motivate people to work past this recession. All a president has is his word and power of opinion, and our president has a superb command of both. I'm a fanatic for no politician, but I have a positive opinion of this administration's intentions.

Now, I await this 21st century new deal that seems to be taking shape. Will this seemingly fearless leader be able to rouse the obstinate and downtrodden American people? This is my question.

[bluestars87]

Uhm, isnt that why its good we track their promises, so that they wount promise the moon from the sky :boggled:

Are you saying we should swallow all lies, because politicians are supposed to lie?Politicians are supposed to lie? Heh, this may be a shock but politicians lie constantly. Doesn't matter who you vote for. If you vote for them believing they're going to deliver everything they say they will you'll always be disappointed.

I wouldn't even see it as lying most of the time. I'd see it as a confident person trying their best to accomplish their intentions.

[Jetsetlemming]

Wow that's stupid.

Yes every president has delivered what they promised. :rolleyes:
That's not stupid, that's a very nice tool for keeping track of what policies Obama's implemented so far, whether he's keeping a campaign promise or no.

[bluestars87]

That's not stupid, that's a very nice tool for keeping track of what policies Obama's implemented so far, whether he's keeping a campaign promise or no.
No it's stupid. At least I think so. It's like trying to prove what should already be common knowledge. I hope people that view that site don't assume that every promise is going to get carried out.

[Jetsetlemming]

I don't care about the campaign promises thing. The site still manages to be a nice repository of Obama policy changes.

[MNJetter]

I agree with jetset. I don't care about campaign promises and whether or not Obama fills them all, but that site is really good for informing politically lazy people like me of what the guy's been up to. Otherwise, what are people supposed to do, pore over official documents and try to make sense of them?

[whispering]

I wouldn't even see it as lying most of the time. I'd see it as a confident person trying their best to accomplish their intentions.

If a politician says "i will create 100 000 new jobs", then off course thats just over confidence, nobody can see the future. But a lie is a lie. I excpect the people i vote to be truthful, i'm not naive, i'm very well aware the bullshit that goes on. That does not mean i have to except it, because that would be really stupid.

[Swede]

If a politician says "i will create 100 000 new jobs", then off course thats just over confidence, nobody can see the future. But a lie is a lie. I excpect the people i vote to be truthful, i'm not naive, i'm very well aware the bullshit that goes on. That does not mean i have to except it, because that would be really stupid.

At the same time though, given two equally qualified candidates, are you going to vote for the one who says 'eh, I'll try and do that if I have time", or the one who makes a point of saying they are concerned about the issue and will work to implement a change in the policy?

Personally, I tend to look at the list of campaign promises as things they'd LIKE to accomplish. Of course not everything is going to be done, but you can't put the entirety of the blame on the person- they can't just do executive orders for everything they want to see implemented. So, with regards to Obama, I think we're definitely going to be seeing some issues take precedence over others- namely economic ones. For me, I'm mainly going to be trying to look at the big picture and see if we're in a better position than we were, and if he's making progress towards achieving the goals he set out in the campaign.

[bluestars87]

If a politician says "i will create 100 000 new jobs", then off course thats just over confidence, nobody can see the future. But a lie is a lie. I excpect the people i vote to be truthful, i'm not naive, i'm very well aware the bullshit that goes on. That does not mean i have to except it, because that would be really stupid.
I hope you know that you've been voting for people that are essentially liars in the long run because all that they say will happen doesn't come true. All politicians lie at some point, whether it's intentional or not.

[MNJetter]

I don't think that unintentional broken promises are lies. A lie is something purposefully and consciously done. Promises don't become retroactive lies if they don't get accomplished. Promises can be lies, but only if the person making them never intended to make an effort to keep them, and I don't think that's the case with all politicians.

I don't expect politicians to be able to accomplish all of the things that they promise, but I assume that there are politicians who will at least try.

[Swede]

I don't think that unintentional broken promises are lies. A lie is something purposefully and consciously done. Promises don't become retroactive lies if they don't get accomplished. Promises can be lies, but only if the person making them never intended to make an effort to keep them, and I don't think that's the case with all politicians.

I don't expect politicians to be able to accomplish all of the things that they promise, but I assume that there are politicians who will at least try.

Yeah, this is basically what I was trying to get at too, just in a more roundabout way :P

[Roxie]

Yay! NO more Global Gag rule!

[whispering]

Personally, I tend to look at the list of campaign promises as things they'd LIKE to accomplish. Of course not everything is going to be done, but you can't put the entirety of the blame on the person- they can't just do executive orders for everything they want to see implemented. So, with regards to Obama, I think we're definitely going to be seeing some issues take precedence over others- namely economic ones. For me, I'm mainly going to be trying to look at the big picture and see if we're in a better position than we were, and if he's making progress towards achieving the goals he set out in the campaign.

No, offcourse if the person comes up and says, "we cant do that because of this and this" and the reason is logical, then its "ok". But saying "I will do this", and then doing a 180 is a lie.

I'm not saying politicians even are capable of doing everything they promised. And if e.g. here a politician promises something, then tryes to do that but fails, i still call it a win. Because s/he didnt backout from the promise.

The problem i had with bluestars87's post is that s/hes in the belief that demanding politicians to be truthful is somehow stupid, that is just idiocy.

I hope you know that you've been voting for people that are essentially liars in the long run because all that they say will happen doesn't come true. All politicians lie at some point, whether it's intentional or not.

You seem to think i dont follow politics and check what the people i vote do. Though most people ive voted in the past years didnt get in...

[Plekto]

If a politician says "i will create 100 000 new jobs", then off course thats just over confidence, nobody can see the future.

Oh, he will create 100,000 new jobs. Too bad they'll be digging ditches and building roads. It's better than starving, after all.

(note - he never said they would be *good* jobs...)

[bluestars87]

The problem i had with bluestars87's post is that s/hes in the belief that demanding politicians to be truthful is somehow stupid, that is just idiocy.

You seem to think i dont follow politics and check what the people i vote do. Though most people ive voted in the past years didnt get in...
If someone like Obama or someone in his standing said more along the lines of "we're going to try our best to get better health care and more jobs" instead of "we will provide better health care and more jobs", especially in a struggling economy, then I would feel a little bit better because at least some realistic measures are established with the context of a comment. But of course that doesn't get you the win for office.

[Trump]

If you think politicians are never going to fulfill their promises, why even vote? Pretty much the main reason I voted against him was because he promised so much that was completely infeasible in this country. He didn't care if what he said had a chance of coming true, he just said it to get elected.

The site is interesting at least to let you know what he is actually doing, but so many of his "promises" overlap I'm not sure the numbers are going to matter.

[bluestars87]

If you think politicians are never going to fulfill their promises, why even vote? Pretty much the main reason I voted against him was because he promised so much that was completely infeasible in this country. He didn't care if what he said had a chance of coming true, he just said it to get elected.

The site is interesting at least to let you know what he is actually doing, but so many of his "promises" overlap I'm not sure the numbers are going to matter.
In the hopes that what you care about comes true. Obviously.

[Mastiker]

If someone like Obama or someone in his standing said more along the lines of "we're going to try our best to get better health care and more jobs" instead of "we will provide better health care and more jobs", especially in a struggling economy, then I would feel a little bit better because at least some realistic measures are established with the context of a comment. But of course that doesn't get you the win for office.

It's not just that - they are determined to provide better health care and more jobs. You don't fool anyone if you start off already compromising. "We will" invites people to think that a job is going to get done. Your boss didn't hire you to try, he hired you to do. Nobody votes in a politician hoping that they "try", they hope that they get things done.

But it also helps the politicians know where they stand - if they make a promise, they better fulfill it. Politicians are part of "the people" as well. If the people want better health care, the people with the power to do so will want to do everything they can in order to get better health care. Starting off with the mindset "I'll try my hardest, but I won't make any promises" is a dangerous place to start.

[Roxie]

Damnit.
Family Planning Aid is Gone For Good From the Stimulus (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/family-planning-aid-is-gone-for-good-from-the-stimulus.php)

[darighaz]

I agree that this is the wrong place to get the bill passed.

This thing shouldn't be like the Lord of the Bills. One bill to rule them all.

[japanat]

I want a family-planning bill to pass, but not tacked onto the stimulus bill. I want the stimulus bill to only be about economic stimulus, not the 8 million other things they're gonna tack on to it. Just get the frigging bill realistically decided - no more bank bailouts with million-dollar tax breaks for wooden arrow makers!

[MNJetter]

I agree. Admirable a cause as family planning might be, I hate it when they try to sneak non-related things into bills.

They should limit bill proposals to 200 words, and one topic. I bet there would be much less of a lag between proposing a law and approving/dismissing it that way.

[Trump]

The stimulus package is one of the things Obama is doing that really pisses me off. REALLY REALLY pisses me off. One of the big points of Obama's campaign was responsible spending, and this is one example of the exact opposite. Very little oversight, very little purpose.

[Roxie]

Not that I disagree, it's just that family planning has been getting "overlooked" consistently over the past 8 years and it really ticks me off.

[mawande]

I have a friend who is a)by the way, African American b) by the way, HATES Obama and anything to do with him with a passion c) is a man with a very difficult home life and c) finally got a job and an income cleaning toilets.

I don't know what you all will make of that.

[Roxie]

i know a black who doesn't like anything about Obama either...so?
Although, he is the same guy who thought that I thought that ALL w-2s came from the IRS instead of your employer. I had to remind him that I know w-2s come from your employer and that IRS was my employer and that I can also tie my shoes, make left turns, and toast bread w/o the house burning down.

[Roxie]

Woo hoo! Obama has officially signed, The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/29/obama.fair.pay/index.html), fair pay legislation!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/Roxie21/ledbetter2012909_01.jpg