Windows 7

[Kannon]

The beta will be up (for download, not beta life) until the 24th of Janurary, if I remember correctly. If you have the ability to dual boot, I would suggest you give this a try. I originally was going to beta Win 7 just to test the waters, but in its current state it is already so complete and without bugs (I have only ran in to one which was solely graphical, and still able to work around until I got around to doing a reboot) that it is already my main OS. I am running Vista x64 on my main HDD, but will really only go back to grab my media files, which luckily I can grab from within Win 7 x64 anyway. Seriously, I wouldn't even go back to XP, let alone Vista, from this OS. Mac/Linux users need not add Micro$oft sucks, et cetera...

[Plekto]

Windows 7 is the actual next OS from Microsoft. Vista was a half baked kludge to try to maintain some sort of market share in the two years or so that it would take from the planned end of XP until 7 came out. They feared not having a new and shiny product for the better part of a decade.

I've been recommending to clients for two years now to wait and run XP until 7 comes out. Avoid Vista much like it was prudent to avoid Windows ME. Plus, the real Windows major releases are always some sort of alpha-numeric combination. Not something that sounds like a marketing department got to it.

The only thing is... windows 7 will be expensive and not one iota better than what the various *IX versions(BSD/Mac and Linux) will have in 12 months(or more) when it's officially released and service pack 1 is available.

[Swede]

I've been running vista and been pretty happy with it. Though it is a bit of a resource hog, and I'll definitely be switching to 7 when it releases. Hooray for being a university student and being able to buy operating systems for like 15 dollars.

[stsparky]

Might as well as run "Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob)" to be snarky.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Microsoft_Bob.PNG
Is Vista stabile yet?

What forces drive you to recommend even leaving XP to clients?

[Jetsetlemming]

Might as well as run "Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob)" to be snarky.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Microsoft_Bob.PNG
Is Vista stabile yet?

What forces drive you to recommend even leaving XP to clients?
Vista's just fine with SP1, though it's still a bit of a resource hog compared to XP. Almost all of Vista's instability problems when it was first released was due to new drivers on a new OS. Almost everything people blame on Windows anymore is really the fault of driver manufacturers (Except the resource hog stuff, which is all on MS and their 'protected path' DRM shit).
DirectX10. Shiny interface. Active desktop searching built in. The hardware rating system. UAC (Win7 will have a better version of UAC that won't annoy users with a ton of pointless warnings that they'll shut it off and leave their computers unprotected).
Also Windows XP 64 bit is horrible and has practically NO driver support for it. Vista x64 had far better support. If you want to take advantage of a modern system, you're probably going to want a 64 bit OS.

[Kannon]

Vista's just fine with SP1, though it's still a bit of a resource hog compared to XP. Almost all of Vista's instability problems when it was first released was due to new drivers on a new OS. Almost everything people blame on Windows anymore is really the fault of driver manufacturers (Except the resource hog stuff, which is all on MS and their 'protected path' DRM shit).
DirectX10. Shiny interface. Active desktop searching built in. The hardware rating system. UAC (Win7 will have a better version of UAC that won't annoy users with a ton of pointless warnings that they'll shut it off and leave their computers unprotected).
Also Windows XP 64 bit is horrible and has practically NO driver support for it. Vista x64 had far better support. If you want to take advantage of a modern system, you're probably going to want a 64 bit OS.

^This. I'm my no means a guru, but I know enough for my usage. I avoided XP x64 like the plague, but have always wanted an x64 system. When building my current system, I went with Vista x64 out of necessity. Considering it was over a year after Vista release, I had practically no problems. Even today my Vista x64 system is stable, however the Win 7 x64 beta is just as stable, and includes the beauty and smoothness I would expect from a modern OS (that has actual compatibily with software without emulators...). The Win 7 UAC isn't bad. You have the same off/on options, as well as two new options in the middle depending on what you want Win 7 to freak about. So far everything I've downloaded that is Vista x64 compatible has worked flawlessly. I find this amusing, as I just found out today that Vista has been cleared for use on military computers... I shudder at the thought of that resource hog of an OS on these POS computers...

[blank slate]

I'm still running XP on my old machine. I had to send in my new pc because I experienced some problems, and it's running Vista. I have to say that I liked Vista, even more so than XP. I can't wait to get my new pc back (2-3 week wait...).

As for 7, I'll wait for it to come out and see what the price is like. I won't count on my school giving me a good price, as they still charge over 400 for Vista as of right now, which is outrageous.

[MNJetter]

Your school charges over 400 for Vista?

Microsoft.com only charges like 200 for Vista Home Basic. Even for the full, pimped-out Vista Ultimate versions are only like 320. Your school is ripping you guys off.

[SlickWilly440]

So is Windows 7 a resource hog like Vista?

[Mastiker]

So is Windows 7 a resource hog like Vista?

http://www.meikathon.net/roflmao/facepalm4.jpg

My roommate got to beta test 7, what with being a tech and all. He said it's a much much better version of Vista. Since I didn't get a chance to toy with it, I'll take his word for it. He said it runs better than Vista does.

[Kannon]

I'll be honest and say I haven't looked at the actual numbers, but it is running just AS smooth at the moment; which I know, isn't saying much. I'll say it runs as well as any XP box I've ran, however I am running an x64 system with 4gig of RAM at the moment. So yeah, really no hard evidence one way or the other, at the moment.

[Kannon]

My roommate got to beta test 7, what with being a tech and all. He said it's a much much better version of Vista. Since I didn't get a chance to toy with it, I'll take his word for it. He said it runs better than Vista does.

Erm, you too, can beta Windows 7... As I stated in the first post, the download for Win 7 beta will be up until the 24th (iirc) of Janurary. I just googled Windows 7, and the Microsoft page with the Win 7 download was first choice.

EDIT: Although like I said, I only recommend it if you can dual boot; even as smooth as it is, it is hard to pull the wool over my eyes after Vista, so yeah if you don't have two HDDs or a correctly partitioned HDD, don't worry about beta'ing, unless you want to risk your operational computer.

[SlickWilly440]

I plan on downloading it and installing it on a separate Laptop HDD (empty) or I could boot gParted from a USB disk and create another partition on my current HDD, which would take a few hours b/c the files on the HDD isn't exactly orginized in a linear order on the platters.

[Kannon]

Yeah I know, that is why I said no real help, just saying that was my current observation, no hard numbers on resource usage yet.

[SlickWilly440]

^
I was actually pointing that post at Mastiker before I changed it. By the time I had posted it you had already posted below him/

[Mastiker]

No, I know. I just like... don't really care enough to bother with it. Plus, my only computer is a mac laptop and I'm full up on data. I gotta clear it out or something.

[Jetsetlemming]

I'll be honest and say I haven't looked at the actual numbers, but it is running just AS smooth at the moment; which I know, isn't saying much. I'll say it runs as well as any XP box I've ran, however I am running an x64 system with 4gig of RAM at the moment. So yeah, really no hard evidence one way or the other, at the moment.
Launch XP and Win7, open task manager, and see how much memory both are using after booting and given a couple minutes to settle, without loading anything besides Windows itself.

[Kannon]

I don't actually have a fresh install of XP on any of my computers anymore. If someone has a fresh install, with nothing downloaded, they could provide the info on XPs usage. I'll find out what Win 7 beta's usage is before work today.

[blank slate]

Your school charges over 400 for Vista?

Microsoft.com only charges like 200 for Vista Home Basic. Even for the full, pimped-out Vista Ultimate versions are only like 320. Your school is ripping you guys off.I know. Even microsoft office is way overpriced at my school. I don't know what the hell they're thinking.

[Swede]

I thought University stuff is supposed to be cheaper? Hell, we can get Adobe Photoshop for free download now, along with Office 2007 and other such things. Operating systems are always cheap too. I guess... sucks to be you :meh:

[Trump]

Windows 7 has to use more resources than vista, that's how microsoft rolls. They always expand their crap to take up everything they can.

[SlickWilly440]

^
Yeah I agree, MAC OS's will always be better than any Microsoft OS.

[Kannon]

Too bad they are compatible with dick, unless you emulate Windows. Kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion.

[Fermented Yeast Paste]

I dunno, a Mac would be perfectly fine with me since I don't really play games or anything like that, but I don't think it'd be worth the extra money. As for Windows 7, if they're going to go the "Mac route" in getting a new update (Not talking Service Packs) out every couple of years or so, I hope they're thinking of bringing down the price.

[haterllnation]

I know. Even microsoft office is way overpriced at my school. I don't know what the hell they're thinking.

Maybe your Uni doesn't have a deal with Microsoft? I find that odd because they are everywhere.

[SlickWilly440]

Okay, so I installed Windows 7 64-Bit, everything went smooth at the end, was able to triple Boot (Windows 7, WinXp English, WinXp Japanese).

I've only been using it for an hour or so (has the same feel as Vista, some differences) and I still prefer Windows Xp. I might mess with it some more later, but right now I"m sticking with XP.

Anyone else feel the same?

[Zensouken]

I don't even want or feel like I need to check the beta out since this is really Microsoft's swan song. If they manage to fuck-up 2 OS's in a row, I don't think there's gonna be a third times a charm.

People are gonna be buying up frickin' Tiger, Leopard, Panther, Thundercat, whatever the hell they keep calling it.

Jeez, give me back 3.1. I might end up waiting until I've no choice like I did with XP.

[RoxFontaine]

3.1 was the shit wasn't it! Old school.

[Citizen]

I don't even want or feel like I need to check the beta out since this is really Microsoft's swan song. If they manage to fuck-up 2 OS's in a row, I don't think there's gonna be a third times a charm.

Are we thinking of the same Microsoft? Even if Windows 7 fails they'll have more than enough money to toss at another OS. And another one after that. And ten more after that. That's how they kept their video gaming department afloat, after all. Besides, plenty of people who don't know dick about computers will still buy it if it sucks, just like with Vista. Hell, plenty of people who DO know dick about computers bought and continue to buy and use Vista. Microsoft isn't going anywhere.

[Zensouken]

3.1 was the shit wasn't it! Old school.

Yes, it was and forever will be the shit.

Are we thinking of the same Microsoft?

Yes, except this was before Apple didn't have a chokehold on the market with people who are fresh to a world where they must learn technology because that's how shit works, not because they want to learn it because this is how shit will work, get yours now! What I'm trying to say is that before when it was 3.1 to 95 (OH, WE FUCKED UP!) to 98, I think people were a little more gracious about it. (By people I mean the techies who grew up with this technology as it was being developed.) Now with the ever-more exclusion of DOS and any type of fix it yourself options, that leaves our "user-friendly-customer-service" in Dubai (or pick any other country not on the same clock as the USA) in-charge of fixin' your shit. Except it doesn't really fix shit, you end up having to send your shit back for some refurb nonsense.

Now I think that ticks off the people who are the current market customers, namely the younger generation who grew up with text messaging on everything they own versus "people" (read above") who remember "You've got mail!" / A BBS called "Prodigy" / CPU's that laid down horizontally / Actually knows that CPU means Central Processing Unit / When recovery and installation discs actually came with your computer, all 20 of them / That disc means CD, and disk means floppy. (OMGWTF's a floppy?!) This being because they are so supersaturated with technology that supposedly fixes itself (India), they don't even understand how it works. Just that when it's not working, not why it's not working;it's not working.

Instead of people being gracious about their OS not working properly and saying, "OK, this is developing technology, something better will come soon enough."; I think it's become, OMGWTF isn't this working, my l33t hax0rz aren't fixing it, India's not fixing it, dude, fuck it; "I'M A MAC now!"

There is a viable alternative now, because Windows really isn't the only badass on the block anymore. Apple has not only solidified their own tech base but has permeated the popular mentality. "This is easy, it's shiny, it's cool." Windows was supposed to be a chore, it's supposed to be a virus-whore, you're supposed to have to work to make it work. Because it's a damn OS, not a Sega. You're supposed to be able to unscrew it's CPU and tear pieces out that don't work and fix it, right now, without customer service. Now Apple has that, you can't unscrew shit and have to bring it to the Apple store, get an espresso and *boom* you're fixed; and that's fine.

Windows is Windows and Tiger/Liger/Kitten is Thundercat, that's fine.

But my point is that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by changing their OS's from simple, quick-loading GUI's that work and can be fixed by yourself if they don't work into super-high-graphical-resource whore nightmares that nobody can fix or optimize. All in the pursuit of looking pretty and running like a Mac OS.

Now I'm not bashing on Macs, I'm just saying that Microsoft should have stayed on their game instead of trying to play catch-up and tossing out a shit product into a market that isn't as forgiving as it used to be and which is also very willing to head to greener pastures.

Hooray Windows 7xNTWorkstationHomeServerXPProfessional EditionSP2...

(sorry if I went off tangent)

[Citizen]

Most of that has little to do with my post and doesn't change the fact that stupid people, curious people, businesses, loyal Microsoft users, people who just hate the other OS's more, and plenty of other people will still buy 7, and that Microsoft will still have enough money to keep going even if it fails. Not to mention that Mac was already a viable alternative when Vista came out.

[archdukezeb]

Sure Microsoft kind of sucks but Macs are so ridiculously overpriced for what they are that I've never considered buying one. Also why was it suddenly a huge selling point for apple that Macs could now run windows? What's the point with that now you have a ridiculously overpriced computer with the supposedly inferior operating system? I've never owned a Mac but I've used them plenty at school and they were always prone to screwing up just as much as or more than Windows ever was for me so what exactly is the big advantage?

[Mastiker]

Now with the ever-more exclusion of DOS and any type of fix it yourself options, that leaves our "user-friendly-customer-service" in Dubai (or pick any other country not on the same clock as the USA) in-charge of fixin' your shit. Except it doesn't really fix shit, you end up having to send your shit back for some refurb nonsense.

I'm currently working at a computer store. We have a tech service where you can bring your computer in and we can fix it. Gosh. Staples does the same thing, and I'm pretty sure Best Buy does. There must be at least five other similar type places in my area alone that I've seen that not only fixes computers but provides tech support. So... yeah. If a computer breaks, you have options.

Now I think that ticks off the people who are the current market customers, namely the younger generation who grew up with text messaging on everything they own versus "people" (read above") who remember "You've got mail!" / A BBS called "Prodigy" / CPU's that laid down horizontally / Actually knows that CPU means Central Processing Unit / When recovery and installation discs actually came with your computer, all 20 of them / That disc means CD, and disk means floppy. (OMGWTF's a floppy?!) This being because they are so supersaturated with technology that supposedly fixes itself (India), they don't even understand how it works. Just that when it's not working, not why it's not working;it's not working.

Besides this having nothing to do with anything...

Not everybody in the world is good at everything you know. Just because we use computers every single day doesn't mean that we should know how to instantaneously fix it. If you car starts breaking down, do you know what the problem is, have the knowledge to fix it, and the parts to replace whatever is broken if necessary? What if the roof of your house starts leaking? Know how to fix the tiles? What if it's not a tile problem and your pipes are leaky? Do you need a plumber or are you handy enough to deal with it?


Instead of people being gracious about their OS not working properly and saying, "OK, this is developing technology, something better will come soon enough."; I think it's become, OMGWTF isn't this working, my l33t hax0rz aren't fixing it, India's not fixing it, dude, fuck it; "I'M A MAC now!"


"Oh wait, I don't have 30 bajillion dollars. I'm still PC!"

Windows is cheaper. That might not mean much to you, or even to me, but it means a lot to the vast majority of people buying computers. To them, there is no real difference between Mac and Windows. They want to go online, check their e-mail, write up reports, play solitaire. Both can give them that, but Windows can do it for cheaper. Not much cheaper, but cheap enough.


There is a viable alternative now, because Windows really isn't the only badass on the block anymore. Apple has not only solidified their own tech base but has permeated the popular mentality. "This is easy, it's shiny, it's cool." Windows was supposed to be a chore, it's supposed to be a virus-whore, you're supposed to have to work to make it work. Because it's a damn OS, not a Sega. You're supposed to be able to unscrew it's CPU and tear pieces out that don't work and fix it, right now, without customer service. Now Apple has that, you can't unscrew shit and have to bring it to the Apple store, get an espresso and *boom* you're fixed; and that's fine.


Macs are still expensive, and now they force you to return to vendor in order to fix the problem - costing you more time and money. Joy.


Windows is Windows and Tiger/Liger/Kitten is Thundercat, that's fine.

But my point is that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by changing their OS's from simple, quick-loading GUI's that work and can be fixed by yourself if they don't work into super-high-graphical-resource whore nightmares that nobody can fix or optimize. All in the pursuit of looking pretty and running like a Mac OS.

Now I'm not bashing on Macs, I'm just saying that Microsoft should have stayed on their game instead of trying to play catch-up and tossing out a shit product into a market that isn't as forgiving as it used to be and which is also very willing to head to greener pastures.

Hooray Windows 7xNTWorkstationHomeServerXPProfessional EditionSP2...

(sorry if I went off tangent)

I'd reply to it, but Citizen said it better already - no use in beating a dead horse.

[Jetsetlemming]

Apple's got a potentially good thing going with their iPhone apps games, since it's entirely digital distro store at good prices and the device is about as game capable as a DS. We'll see if they grasp it and embrace gaming, but history says no, and without gaming Macs will never be the mainstream. PC gaming is a 33 billion dollar business. They can't ignore it and win.

[blank slate]

After getting my new notebook with Vista installed, I actually liked it. After dual booting with windows xp and going back and forth between the two, I ended up liking Vista more. Pretty surprising considering I was going in with a pretty negative image of Vista.

So I don't see where all the vitriol for the OS is coming, it's most likely because the first year for Vista was so disastrous in terms of driver support.

As for Apple and OS X, they're simply way too expensive. I considered getting one while looking for a new notebook. But after seeing what Apple could offer me, and seeing what a pc vendor could offer me, the choice was simple. I got better specs from the pc side of things for half of the price. This is why windows will continue to be relevant.

[MNJetter]

Who cares which one is a resource hog and which one is more expensive. They've started selling laptops installed with linux now. Both Mac and Windows are going to be in trouble.

Speaking of operating systems....I'm thinking of getting a new one installed because now that I'm back in the states, it's really annoying to try troubleshooting and whatnot on my computer, being that the system is in Japanese. As far as I can tell, there's no way to switch the whole OS to English (though since the instructions are all in Japanese, I can't say that for sure), so I want to get a new OS. But I don't like vista enough to stay with it if I can find something else cheap and practical. All I really ever do on my computer is word processing and internet surfing. Suggestions? I was just going to buy the American version of Vista until this thread came up and mentioned Windows 7, which I'd never heard of.

[Jetsetlemming]

There is no good linux for the average user. Linux is a great OS for servers because they're run by people who know what the fuck they're doing and benefit from an OS with less overheard substantially, but for the average user you might as well expect them to use DOS. The CLOSEST to a good linux, Ubuntu, still requires the average user to frequent the command prompt and memorize a list of common commands and formats just to install basic programs. Once everything's set up, they're more manageable, but taking care of the nitty gritty stuff for a Linux environment requires a level of technical expertise and effort in learning how shit works that your average windows/mac using consumer refuses to muster.

Windows XP Home OEM (that means it has no MS support and the license is non-transferable (technically)): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511
Windows Vista Home Premium OEM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116480
Both $90.
Windows 7 beta: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/
Free. Expires in August. It's a beta.

[MNJetter]

What about that one laptop that they're selling at Target for like $300? It runs on Linux. I think it's only meant for web surfing and not installing all sorts of things into, but I imagine someone must have set it up to be pretty user-friendly.

I don't mean I'm thinking of buying that one. Just wondering what's the difference between that linux and the kind you can download for free. If anybody knows.

[puzzo]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220369
Something like this?
I bought this for my next semester in college ( which starts tuesday :bang: ) and it came with linux (albeit a VERY dumbed down version) I'm going to change it to xp sometime soon I think, but luckily for me Asus must have known some people don't like linux, because it had a windows xp disc packed with it ( but no freaking cd drive lol) I'm going to have to figure out how to do it with flash drives or something I think.

[Kannon]

Can get an external USB CD/DVD optical drive, or just borrow one. You'd think the Uni would have one lying around somewhere... Also, I believe they are using Ubuntu, which was my understanding to be the most user friendly version of Linux.

[Comazon]

Also, I believe they are using Ubuntu, which was my understanding to be the most user friendly version of Linux.
The EEE PC uses Xandros, not Ubuntu, which is indeed an incredibly dumbed down OS. You can download a version of Ubuntu for the EEE PC at http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ though.

The EEE PC is essentially a toy computer. It's rather slow and doesn't have much functionality, but you get what you pay for. They either come with Xandros or Windows XP, and I can tell you now that you'll want the Windows XP version. You'll be a lot happier that way.

[puzzo]

yeah I knew what I was getting when I payed for it, I mostly bought it so I could bring it to school and do my homework and type notes on it. One thing I like is the long battery life and I'm worried if I switch it to xp I'll lose that. If I wanted to learn or was already familiar with linux I'm sure I'd like that aspect more, but I'm not so I'll just change it.

[MNJetter]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220369
Something like this?
I bought this for my next semester in college ( which starts tuesday ) and it came with linux (albeit a VERY dumbed down version) I'm going to change it to xp sometime soon I think, but luckily for me Asus must have known some people don't like linux, because it had a windows xp disc packed with it ( but no freaking cd drive lol) I'm going to have to figure out how to do it with flash drives or something I think.
Yeah, that's exactly the one I was thinking of, actually. I wish they'd come out with it before I decided to buy my own laptop -- spending $1000 on a desktop computer and $399 on a barebones tiny laptop seems much more economical than spending $1400 on just a tiny (albeit much more functional) laptop. But it's too late to bring this one back, and so I'll use it for a couple more years as best I can.

[SlickWilly440]

Speaking of operating systems....I'm thinking of getting a new one installed because now that I'm back in the states, it's really annoying to try troubleshooting and whatnot on my computer, being that the system is in Japanese. As far as I can tell, there's no way to switch the whole OS to English (though since the instructions are all in Japanese, I can't say that for sure), so I want to get a new OS. But I don't like vista enough to stay with it if I can find something else cheap and practical.

Assuming you have a Japanese Version of Vista Installed you can actually download the English Language Pack from Windows Update (Optional Downloads/Update) in the Control Panel, then change the language in the Regional Settings (also in Control Panel).

[japanat]

Assuming you have a Japanese Version of Vista Installed you can actually download the English Language Pack from Windows Update (Optional Downloads/Update) in the Control Panel, then change the language in the Regional Settings (also in Control Panel).I've done that, but all system messages are still in Japanese, as is the Start/Programs menu.

It supports the English, and allows some things to come through in English, but all the system displays will remain in J.

[ミュー]

From 1998-2005 I used 95, 98, and XP
I bought a Mac laptop in 2005 to take to Japan, and it has totally changed my attitude towards computing in general.

Using Windows makes me feel like I'm a gladiator in the coliseum. I have to fight to get things done and spill the blood of opposing errors and virii, all without gaining the attention of Emperor BSoD.

Using Mac is like driving a luxury car. I flip it open and cruise through all of the shit I need to do, with no questions. The interface is sleek and a common system of keyboard controls makes multitasking an unconscious thing. Chicks even dig it, if that means anything to you.

I paid a cool $3000 for my MacBook Pro w/ 2.6 c2d
Is that too much? Honestly, I don't care
When I want to do something "will my computer fuck up today" is the last thing on my mind. That is worth a lot to people who depend on their system working. This is why Macs sell.

[Gorlam]

From 1998-2005 I used 95, 98, and XP
I bought a Mac laptop in 2005 to take to Japan, and it has totally changed my attitude towards computing in general.

Using Windows makes me feel like I'm a gladiator in the coliseum. I have to fight to get things done and spill the blood of opposing errors and virii, all without gaining the attention of Emperor BSoD.

Using Mac is like driving a luxury car. I flip it open and cruise through all of the shit I need to do, with no questions. The interface is sleek and a common system of keyboard controls makes multitasking an unconscious thing. Chicks even dig it, if that means anything to you.

I paid a cool $3000 for my MacBook Pro w/ 2.6 c2d
Is that too much? Honestly, I don't care
When I want to do something "will my computer fuck up today" is the last thing on my mind. That is worth a lot to people who depend on their system working. This is why Macs sell.
that IS a lot, what are you doing that you need a 3k computer for?

[SlickWilly440]

I've done that, but all system messages are still in Japanese, as is the Start/Programs menu.

It supports the English, and allows some things to come through in English, but all the system displays will remain in J.

Did you check that little box to select the option to turn the Start/Program menus into English? At least that option was available when I installed the Japanese Language Pack in Vista and Windows 7.

[darighaz]

My windows machine never crashes, and never BSODs.

I seriously wonder how people manage to blow up windows so bad, because mines fine lol.

[blank slate]

I'm in the same boat with darighaz. In all the years I've been using Windows XP, I've never gotten a BSoD.

[darighaz]

Most (BY FAR) common cause of Blue screens is faulty hardware. Nothing to do with the OS.

The only reason an OS will blue screen on its own is if a driver is freaking out, or a system file gets corrupt (usually a case of bad HD).

When you put the FUD away, OS's are OS's. So long as i can use all the apps i need, i dont really care what they are. *nix systems are my least favorite because i have to tinker with them to gain 0 additional benefit from a major OS.

[stsparky]

It's the enduser - saw BSOD often.

[Jetsetlemming]

This is why Macs sell.
Because people like you don't know how to use a computer properly. I believe the adage "Problem exists between keyboard and chair" applies. :innocent:

Also you could've spent less than half that for the same hardware and made a hackintosh if you were so desperate for macOS

[stsparky]

Macs sell because the way the majority of them last.

My old powerbook was current - up until OS 1.5 caused me to retire it. It outlasted my Dad's 3 Vaios and a Fujitsu ...

I have no hate of Windows. It's always been a poor man's subset of Unix.

[Gorlam]

Macs sell because the way the majority of them last.

My old powerbook was current - up until OS 1.5 caused me to retire it. It outlasted my Dad's 3 Vaios and a Fujitsu ...

I have no hate of Windows. It's always been a poor man's subset of Unix.

maybe just poorly made; I bought the parts to my PC and put it together myself, aside from needing to upgrade occasionally I have yet to have any major problems.

[darighaz]

Yea... computers not lasting has absolutly nothing to do w/ the OS whatsoever, and 100% to do with shitty parts inside.

[MNJetter]

Assuming you have a Japanese Version of Vista Installed you can actually download the English Language Pack from Windows Update (Optional Downloads/Update) in the Control Panel, then change the language in the Regional Settings (also in Control Panel).
Yeah, I know, I tried that, just like Japanat. And I tried the other thing you mentioned afterwards, which puts English in some things but not everything. I even tried setting the default language to "English" when Vista was first booting up when I first got my computer, which resulted in all the system messages and menus and whatnot to read "??? ??????" I think that computer was trying to display Japanese words using English characters, and not being able to come up with equivalent kana, just used question marks, because things like "CD" and "DVD-R" came through just fine. Either that or my computer is just wired wrong. I suppose that's possible too.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to find someplace that sells XP home version. I liked XP when I had it before this laptop, and can't find anything better about Vista, so don't see any reason to spend the money on it.

[darighaz]

Vista = Prettier interface + much more useful search, if you search your computer for stuff a lot.

Also new start menu >> old one.

[Kannon]

^True. In all honesty, the search and constant indexing pissed me off, as I rarely if ever search my computer for anything. Although it's leaps and bounds better in Win 7 beta, which I'll continue to run until official release.

EDIT: On a side note; now that I'm a bit more familiar with multi-booting a computer, and the fact that my new HDD just has Win 7 beta on it (230+gig free) I was thinking of partitioning it again and triple booting, and trying Linux for the first time. Obviously I've heard of Ubuntu plenty of times; Linus users, would you recommend this for a first Linux experience, and what kind of info can you give to someone who has never used it to what they should look out for? Thanks in advance.

[Jetsetlemming]

Yea... computers not lasting has absolutly nothing to do w/ the OS whatsoever, and 100% to do with shitty parts inside.
Unlike MS and Windows, Apple makes their computers themselves. So you get one standard of hardware with Macs (At least NOW you do).

One standard of extremely overpriced, underpowered hardware :watson:

[darighaz]

Erm.

They run/ran maxtor hard drives,

And they all run Intel CPUs.

They don't make it all themselves, but they'll definitely enjoy everyone thinking they still do :D

When has MS or Windows ever claimed to make hardware either O.o

[Jetsetlemming]

They don't make the hardware. They select the hardware brands and models and assemble them. Apple is playing both Microsoft's and Dell's role.

[darighaz]

And yet, we were still baffled by their choice of Maxtor... That .. was odd.

No idea about anything regarding laptop parts, and i think thats where they're likly making the most real inroads.

I dont see the Mac Desktop ever really taking off, but the mac laptop? Its probably going to be king, until Dell/IBM/HP take some style cues and up the ante. I think if they worked some color into their designs, they could really take off.

Mac is far more about style and Coolness than anything else right now. They made tech gadgets into accessories, and therefore accessible by the general public. The actual end product isn't really any better than anything else.

[archdukezeb]

It's pretty funny how Microsoft got hit up with all the monopoly lawsuits when Apple and Google are constantly trying to gain control over every market. Apple makes the hardware, the OS, the internet application, the music software, the video editing software, DVD software, etc. but all the artsy environmentalist types love Apple and hate Microsoft. I guess good marketing.

[Jetsetlemming]

There's a difference between BEING a monopoly and TRYING to be one.
Europe's anti-trust lawsuits against MS were almost all completely bullshit, though. They have to issue special Euro editions of windows without Internet Explorer or WMP because of that retarded shit. How are you even supposed to GET firefox without IE to browse to mozilla's website and download it in the first place?

[archdukezeb]

The lawsuits way back when weren't involving Microsoft they were about Netscape which was a browser that you bought(in stores I imagine). But then Microsoft for whatever reason decided to offer their free internet browser with Windows which is somehow a monopolistic practice. Sure it put Netscape out of business but now there's free browsers you can get like Firefox and Chrome so instead of monopolizing the game they just changed it and now we all can enjoy free browsers, I believe how capitalism ideally should work.

In the EU lawsuits not only did they make them recall all their software and issue new IEless operating systems they made them pay 497 million dollars in fines. Sounds like the EU just strong arming Microsoft to me.

[SlickWilly440]

] How are you even supposed to GET firefox without IE to browse to mozilla's website and download it in the first place?

Go to the store, buy the WebBrowsing software on a CD, then install it. Or get a friend who already has a browser to copy the FireFox install files onto a USB Drive.

[Fumi]

EDIT: On a side note; now that I'm a bit more familiar with multi-booting a computer, and the fact that my new HDD just has Win 7 beta on it (230+gig free) I was thinking of partitioning it again and triple booting, and trying Linux for the first time. Obviously I've heard of Ubuntu plenty of times; Linus users, would you recommend this for a first Linux experience, and what kind of info can you give to someone who has never used it to what they should look out for? Thanks in advance.
Most distros are pretty much the same, afterall it's the same software.

For a first time experience you might want to try Knoppix, you can just boot it and run it from the DVD without touching your harddisk.

[stsparky]

Windows 7 vs. Snow Leopard: Microsoft's comeback plan (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/22/windows_7_vs_snow_leopard_microsofts_comeback_plan .html)

... Windows 7 and Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard aren't competing directly; instead, each is part of competitive strategy to either grow the Mac user base at Microsoft's expense, as Apple has been doing, or in Microsoft's case, to stop the hemorrhaging market share losses and reclaim leadership of desktop operating system development. ...

[darighaz]

reclaim leadership?

Microsoft owns in every meaningful sense of the word the desktop OS, is just about every capacity there is.

[whispering]

My windows machine never crashes, and never BSODs.

I seriously wonder how people manage to blow up windows so bad, because mines fine lol.

Ive got it many times in the past decade or so, as far as i can remember, it was memory fault most of the time. Other times ive crashed windows it was 3rd party software. Ive managed to crash a Mac too, many times.

On a side note, QuickTime just got an upgrade that filled 2 security holes (3rd and 4th most dangerous on web browsing in windows, irony?). So i opened the player (i have to use it at work, cause one CAD program wount work witout it) and pressed Update -> program crashed. Tryed to update another computer too -> progam crashed. When i finally got around to manually remove/install them. Npticed how the program is filled with pointless "Pro" grayed out features. Like i give a fuck. Now if that is Apples idea of "just works", i'm better of with Microsoft.

[stsparky]

... reclaim leadership? Microsoft owns in every meaningful sense of the word the desktop OS, is just about every capacity there is.

Management in Redmond misjudged the economy - They're laying off people. They're only hiring people who grok Search. Apple is hiring. And there's a link to the first part of the linked article above - I quoted from part two ...

[Jetsetlemming]

The people they've been laying off are from the MSN division- it has nothing to do with Windows. Even if it WAS the Windows development team they were shrinking, they has no effect on the current market share.

[stsparky]

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1195.gif

[blank slate]

I actually got the beta two days ago. I'm still waiting for those 'tards at newegg to replace my busted notebook (It's already been 2 weeks, dammit!).

I'm waiting for the notebook to come on in and dual boot it with Vista to see what all the fuss is about.

[Jetsetlemming]

Sparky you read and post bad webcomics

[stsparky]

My niece switched 2 days ago. Vista is really stable on a MacBook, who knew?

[Trump]

I haven't had any problems with Vista yet. Just have to click the annoying "allow" button occasionally, but that's really it. Been playing games and everything with little trouble. I'm not saying it is a really good OS or anything, but at least it hasn't been causing problems.

[blank slate]

I actually enjoyed the time (as little as it was) I had with Vista. Waiting for my replacement notebook to be sent to me, but newegg is slow as hell with RMAs.

As for Windows 7, I tried to run it on my current notebook (it's about 3 years old), and it wasn't so nice. This notebook's limit is definitely windows xp. It got a whopping score of 1.0 from the Windows 7 performance index, lol.